The Evils of Pole Straps & why you should remove them
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2018
- Backcountry Skiing Canada discusses why Pole Straps are evil & why you should remove them.
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Sprained my wrist at the resort a number of years ago because I was using my pole straps (went headfirst into a large snow drift, my arms stayed behind). Ever since I haven't used the straps (by either removing or just not using, depending on the type of skiing). Solid advice for backcountry or the resort. Thanks for posting, something a lot of skiers don't think about.
Luckily you were ok and have changed things, more people need to know about other's accidents and close calls, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for posting this. I have been concerned about pole straps ever since I caught a basket on a tree and nearly had my arm removed from my body. I had not considered the avalanche and tree well scenarios though. Your post is enough to push me into permanently removing my pole straps.
Hey Jack, glad to hear you found the video thought provoking. That's the reason I wanted to create it, as I've had all three of those scenarios happen and it's not something that most people consider until it's too late sometimes.Take the plunge and let me know what you think after a few weeks, guarantee you won't miss them at all and your arms will be attached to your body from here on out!
I keep my pole straps for extra pushing power on logging road approaches, long valley bottoms or for skating across frozen lakes. For winter camping, you can add a carabiner and nalgene to your strap to fish water out of creek with very deep snow banks. I do agree with all the above comments though and never wear them skiing or in avalanche terrain.
I use the Leki with the trigger system. It releases the connection to the pole under load, just like a binding would do. Best of both worlds.
While I appreciate the design Leki came up with for the releasable pole strap it only works if the pole is held stationary such as getting it caught on a tree or snag as it actually requires a lot of force to release the pole strap and a quick jerking motion so this does not work in a tree well when there is some give to the snow and no room to apply the force needed with your wrist and arm. So I would not recommend using these poles straps for those reasons if you are sceptical give it a try in the snow and you will see what I mean.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada They're really great for racing and open environments.
@@breckr1121 Totally agree but most people don't race and most resorts have trees on or around their ski runs so this is for the majority of people who resort ski and backcountry ski.
Use the Lexi Trigger system for snowshoeing and trail running.👍
I too had the Leki trigger system and was living under the illusion that it would release in the event of a fall. As I write this I have two pins in the base of my thumb and a splint from my hand to my elbow. My ski season is finished for this winter due to the pole not releasing in a bad ski crash and breaking the base of my thumb in several places. Buyer beware.
Just broke my left wrist and arm in an avalanche one week ago while snowshoeing because I had trekking pole straps on. I'll never use pole straps again and you shouldn't either. I have some nice titanium hardware and screws in my arm now and a bunch of rehab to look forward to. Thank you for posting this video.
Hi Corban, so sorry to hear that this happened but glad it was not worse than it was and you made it out alive - very scary experience for sure. I appreciate your input and advice for our viewers as this video is just my opinion and experience and your story helps validate this. Hopefully, others come forward with their stories and we can get the word out to everyone to not use pole straps when at the resort or in avalanche terrain. I hope your recovery and rehab goes well for you and sorry you had to learn this one the hard way.
Great safety points. In terms of function, I also use the grip to adjust my risers and bindings and the strap is frequently in the way and gets caught. So removing it made transitions between grades quicker.
Another good point, thanks for bringing that one up. If they get in the way and aren't safe, may as well just remove them.
Good message that needs to be understood more widely. Alpine racing is pretty much the only place I would consider using straps.
I'd have to agree, racing makes sense as there are no obstacles to potentially cause harm due to the straps. Hopefully more people consider removing their straps and giving it a try.
Thank you for this very important message. My hands were Velcroed into my cross country ski poles. When I fell on my pole, my wrist was entrapped and broke :((
I wish I knew then what I know now. I will never use ski pole straps again.
Glad it resonated with you and that you can understand why they are so potentially dangerous and that the benefit they provide is not really worth it.
I have an old pair of Life Link carbon poles with break-away pole straps that I've used for over 15 years and other than snapping a pole shaft once, they've been totally bombproof. The straps release when pulled upward, which is exactly when you need them to release. These poles provide the advantage of pole straps, (like moving laterally, stability) and zero risk of yanking your shoulder. The trouble is it's very difficult to find replacement parts should you lose a strap.
I am familiar with this pole design and there is a similar version from Leki Poles on the market now, the issue I see with this configuration is not the chance of snagging them on a tree and dislocating your shoulder but being in a tree well or partially buried in a slide and not being able to self release your hand. By this I mean can you release your left-hand w/o the use of your right? In the case of a tree well your hands may be pinned back and not be able to access on another and then you are in real trouble. I've tried the poles from Leki with this releasable pole strap system and I would personally never use them for the above-mentioned reason. Thoughts from other people?
In a tree well situation, as long as poles are behind you and not below you, I believe the straps would release as your hands would push downward, (which above the pole when you're upside down). Looking at new releasable straps, it appears the design is quite different from the old Life Links. Over the years I've had many occasions when the poles caught on things and they always released when they needed to, but never had a tree-well experience.
Thanks for the feedback Gord, I found that in my tree well situation and in most (I would imagine), your hands will most likely be below you (above your head since you are hanging upside down from your skis). Since the poles will not necessarily be caught on something solid, there could be play, so if you tried to release them they would most likely just move and not release. I am not familiar with the lifelink system but I know with the Leki system it would be impossible to remove your hands unless the poles were stuck completely and did not move, and even then it would be challenging and add one more level of complexity to the situation you are in. I should also note, that I was upside down in a 6ft tree well IN BOUNDS at a ski resort, not backcountry skiing and consider myself an advanced skier with knowledge of tree well dangers, so it happens and happens quickly. For the benefits pole straps provide I personally do not think they are worth the risk.
The first scenario you described actually happened to me on a side hit off a blue run. Its a terrible, reocurring injury now that I don't wish on anyone where surgical intervention is the only fix (at this point).
Be proactive and remove pole straps from all of your downhill and touring poles! I now only use pole straps when xc skiing on groomed trail because good technique actually relies on them, and with a releaseable system.
Sorry to hear about the injury Tony, hopefully the surgery will fix things for you, unfortunate you have to go that route. I've had several close calls before when I used pole straps but luckily my glove came off instead of my arm! There is no real reason for pole manufacturers to sell poles with straps installed, I'd welcome the day where straps are n add-on that you ha to pay more for. Totally agree that they serve a huge purpose in XC skiing for sure.
I removed the straps from the G3 Fixies I use for resort skiing because they are so big and bulky I can't hold my poles comfortably and my hands ache! Whatever happened to the old-style pole straps that were just a simple loop with a half-twist? Very comfortable if you know how to put them on correctly and easy to remove (your hands from them) for skiing in the trees or other potentially dangerous terrain. I wish G3 would offer this type of strap as an option or extra.
Good to know, thanks!
A great example in this video of why pole straps are not needed: czcams.com/video/D6dEBgrQp0Q/video.html
Thanks for sharing this!
I leave the pole straps attached to the poles because it makes it easier to stow the poles when I carry my skis and poles on my pack. (Loop the poles over the ski tips and secure them to the pack with a strap or something.) But I agree about not skiing with your hands through the straps. The only time I do that is when I'm lift skiing on packed snow days.
good point they do some in handy for that. I personally use a voile strap to strap my skis together and then get the poles in there as well so it's one nice tight bundle for transporting and nothing can come lose. If I have to stow them on my pack then I usually want my poles in hand for climbing. Just be careful when skiing the trees in bounds as your poles can sang trees and also be a liability if you fall in a tree well!
On the same page as you. Simple choice to not slip your hand through the strap but I like having them on there for utility. IME you can never have enough things to tie stuff up with when things go south. Leave them on the poles, perfect way to 'store' them.
I only place my hand through them but keep my thumb out. I’m thinking it’s such little difference I should just ditch them.
What about using them when skinning up and just not wrapping it around your wrist on the descent? Honest question.
A great question Nomad. Using pole straps for skinning uphill do provide some nice leverage while climbing and help reduce fatigue but you also have to understand that avalanches can and have killed many people while they were skiing up and for this reason, I would not use them for this either. If a slide hits then your arms are again trapped and the poles become a huge hindrance to try and swim or loosen gear.
Switching to splitboarding helps the shoulders too. Joking aside, great points to consider for a beginner like myself.
Glad you found it helpful, it is something that most people should take more seriously or at least consider before strapping into poles.
Any references to help me get my straps off my BD poles- carbon fixed length. I can’t seem to push the pin.. about to resort to scissors but it’s a little more committing...
thanks for any help.
Hey Dave, great to hear you are making the leap to remove your pole straps. If this video can change a few people's minds so that they remove their pole straps then it was all worth it. In regards to how to remove the straps from your BD poles, the best method is to use a small nail (the same size as the steel pin or smaller) and hammer it into the pin so that the nail pushes it out the other side. You may need to put the pole grip on a vice with a gap for the pin to come out the other side. I hope that this makes sense and helps!
I realize this is old now... but I recall removing a set of straps from my BD poles and the pin had some kind of knurl or texture on one end and it was much more difficult to push that end through the whole grip than to push it back out the side it was closest to. So, trying both directions one seemed easier. However, I didn't notice any indication that would help with orientation before you went at it.
Couldn't agree less....Nomad trails got it mostly right in the comments. I LOVE my pole straps! Still using the same pair of Scott pencil poles someone GAVE me in 1990. Would estimate 2000 day s on them. I splitboard as well so they have missed out on about 1000 days there. They are presently on their 3rd set of straps. I use bulk backpack strap material from the local kick ass bc shop. I have both wrapped with a little duct tape 1/2 way around the loop to keep them open, and just keep my thumbs thru the straps while climbing. So there's no need to wrap your hands in the straps to benefit from the extra leverage, or use more energy gripping the pole. One of the straps is a bit longer, which makes it the uphill pole if things are steep (remember, only the thumb is thru the strap, so youre "choked up" on it...) They poles are light, comfortable, simple, shock absorbing, and have greatly reduced swing effort being so thin (had to retrain my skiing to ski them- not swinging the Gorilla poles at 50 mph). The Straps are thin and flexible, and dont interfere under the glove on the down, & makes em easy to put on the bag for booters...Like any piece of gear, say crampons, its in the proper application. DONT use them on the DOWN.
Good point about just using the straps for putting your thumbs in trollandski and not your entire hand and glad to hear you NEVER use them on the way down which is super important. Sounds like you have a great pair of poles that have seen a lot of fun days and mean a lot to you. I like the tip on one pole strap being longer but in reality, if the slope is really steep you'd have to down grip quite a ways (say 6-12") so that your hands are not higher and working harder-and also getting colder.
Sounds like you have a good system going that keeps you relatively safe with the straps on!
I never used pole straps, but after losing a pole on a steep face, with tight trees below me I started to wear straps, but I am worried about the downside. I think that know when to use them and when not to is vital for safety on and off the resort.
I'd disagree with that, I don't think you should wear them on steeper slopes where a pole drop could mean it rolls away as it also means the danger of avalanches is present and especially with the Hazzard below of the trees. I'd say that you need to know when to hold onto them and when to hold onto them extra tight! It takes a while to get used to not having pole straps but once you do it is normal and way, way safer!
If you have poor circulation in your hands, (like me) having to grip a pole without any strap will only make your hands even colder. When going uphill, you would have to grip even harder and hands will get cold even faster. Cold hands to me is of far more concern than the slim chance of the scenarios mentioned. In 40 yrs of skiing none of those have happened to the degree that would justify me removing straps. As for avalanches, the recommendation from 30 yrs ago was take hands out of wrist loops when entering potential avalanche terrain, and undoing packbelt too. I've caught baskets on trees, they ripped off, my shoulder didn't. The reward of having wrist loops seriously outweighs the risk in my book.
Thanks for your input Alan, great to know. You have specific needs for sure but for the general public who wants to be safer out there should consider no straps as it is safer should things go wrong. While you have not had any incidents happen in the previous 40yrs, this does not dictate what may happy in the coming years. Better safe than sorry, but again whatever works, just letting you know our thoughts, so thank you for yours.
true, on my birthday at Mammoth once it was a perfect pow day, I was skiing one tight steep tree run and must have snagged something cause my basket was gone. Made the rest of the day a little awkward since my one pole would just sink straight into the deep snow. But I still had a blast
What gloves are those? They look like a warm and comfortable quality product.
Those would be the Black Diamond Guide Gore-Tex Gloves, great gloves indeed!
Except Leki now has detachable pole straps in case of these situations... need to get some!!
While I appreciate the design Leki came up with for the releasable pole strap it only works if the pole is held stationary such as getting it caught on a tree or snag as it actually requires a lot of force to release the pole strap and a quick jerking motion so this does not work in a tree well when there is some give to the snow and no room to apply the force needed with your wrist and arm. So I would not recommend using these poles straps for those reasons if you are sceptical give it a try in the snow and you will see what I mean.
I completely agree with this and don’t use the straps on my poles. I was thinking a strap may be useful though with a whippet on steep terrain. What do you think about this situation?
I totally agree! in the case of a whippet or ice axe the strap is crucial for it to work properly as you cannot maintain a grip on either when self-arresting and the strap is invaluable to your safety. Ski poles on the other hand are not needed to save you from falling down a slope and can only cause harm in so many situations. Thanks for your feedback, thoughts and question!
@@Backcountryskiingcanada what about digging the tip of your pole into the snow for self arrest purposes? Definitely not as good as a whippet, but better than nothing if you know the technique
@@proverbalizer If you are going to try and use the tips of your poles to self arrest then straps are of no value as you need to hold the pole just over the basket to get maximum leverage on the pole tip.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada good point. I was thinking of grabbing above the basket with the other hand
Can't use your poles at all if they are gone in a yard sale.
But lately I've been not using my pole straps, and found that in most falls I actually do keep holding on to them
@@proverbalizer It is definitely a learning curve w/o pole straps but you get used to it really quickly and if I had been using them when I fell in a tree well, I would be dead.
Don't forget skiers thumb. The oldest reason in the book to not use pole straps. Growing up my mother had to constantly wear a wrist brace on one of her hands due to a skiing injury from a pole strap tearing the tendon in her thumb. I was always very cautious of pole straps as a result.
You're exactly right Sara, that is a very common injury caused by pole straps. Sorry to hear that your mother was not so lucky. This is why I wanted to make this video, pole straps just make no sense as an included item when you buy ski poles. I think that the pole straps should be an extra for those people that just have to have them, or racers, but for the majority of skiers, pole straps are just not needed and more of a liability than anything.
Never used them, don’t plan on it. Teaching my kids to ski this year and they’re now using poles. This was the first thing we covered is the dangers of pole straps. We just lay them under our grip, so if we are skating across flats we can still have some leverage, but they’re learning to cup the top of the pole with their hands so they can apply downward force that way. Cheers, and thanks for thinking of our safety.
Great to start them young, I took them right off all of my families poles so they get used to life w/o then and won't be tempted to ever use them.
This was my first season not using pole straps and I never lost a pole. I kept the straps on the pole and grip them with the handle so the straps aren't flying around. It makes a lot of sense not to use straps!
Good to hear,! Step two is to remove the straps all together so that you can have a more comfortable grip and lighten things up a little and limit the temptation to use them ever again.
Keep it up and pass along the word about not needing pole straps!!
All if your negatives about straps pertain to backcountry skiing. Can you talk about Alpine Ski Racers? Are their any cons to use them in alpine racing?
Well yes, all the points about pole staps being evil pertain to backcountry skiing since this is a backcountry skiing channel! What I can tell you is that even skiing in a resort they are still not a great idea due to the fact that you can snag the pole's basket on trees and other obstacles and then the strap pulls on your arm and easily dislocates it from your shoulder. It happens more than you would think!
@@Backcountryskiingcanada Thanks for responding, appreciate your informative content
@@61marley You bet, subscribe so you don't miss any future videos!
Pole straps worked just fine in Nagano 1998!!
They have a place, just not in the backcountry or where there are tree wells.
As someone who (almost completely) tore the ligament in my thumb from holding my pole straps incorrectly and crashing, I couldn't agree more that they are one of the most dangerous and dangerously overlooked parts of the ski kit. However I do appreciate the convenience of straps, and the fact that they reduce the amount of grip tension needed to hold the pole. What do you think of new strap-release systems such as the black diamond traverse poles?
Thanks for sharing Max, that is just one of many injuries that pole straps can cause. While they do provide some convenience the risks of injury are pretty high or in the case of a tree well incidence even death. Releasable pole straps like those from Black Diamond or Leki do release but the pole is required to be held stationary while a significant force is required to release the pole strap. In the case of a pole getting caught on a tree or in a hole, this would work well but if you are in a tree well then this does not provide any more advantage over regular pole straps as typically the poles will move a little and not allow the strap to be removed. I'd still recommend removing all pole straps.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada a great idea would be a pole with a cup at the bottom for leverage when pushing down, but no resistance going up.
@@Osnosis Not sure I follow your logic Osnosis, can you elaborate a little more?
@@Backcountryskiingcanada If you had a curved “pocket” at the base of the handle, your palm heel would have something to leverage against (rather than having to squeeze/grasp the handle). No constraint when falling, releasing the pole, but some aid when climbing and skiing downhill. Sort of like an open race handle. Hope that explains it.
@@Osnosis Ah, gotcha. That does make sense.
I've been backcountry skiing for 50 years and I'll keep my straps. I often let go of my pole(s) to get things out of my jacket or pack while skinning and just drop them and let them hang on my wrist. I also do a fair bit of skating on the flats headed back to the car and with my poles at 135cm, the straps are very useful. I'm quite aware of where my pole are and don't get them caught in the trees. Don't get caught in a serious avalanche - it's avoidable. I once had to climb down 500' to retrieve a pole that I thought I was in the strap, but that's just my being stupid. Funny, though, that I recently quit using leashes on my ice axes.
To each there own, we're just making people aware of the implication of being strapped to your poles and the dangers that presents, after that it's up to everyone to make there own call, but good to be informed!
@@Backcountryskiingcanada
I know. I'm just presenting some counterpoints.
@@midi510 Totally and we appreciate both sides of the discussion - thank you for your thoughts and insight!
Monkini has the best idea, a strap system that releases with enough load - before your ligaments "release".
BUT, when backcountry skiing use Nordic ski pole grips/straps(with release system) NOT alpine handles.
Leki Poles have the same system and while this works great for when you snag trees it does nothing for tree well immersion as there is not enough holding power on the pole to snap the strap off. The best solution is no pole straps, they really aren't needed at all,.. that's why we have fingers :)
As a ski racer that grew up in the 2000's I never used them cause Bode Miller didn't 🤣🤣
That's as good a reason as any!
The first reason actually happened to me today
Sorry to hear that. Are you ok? So, pole straps coming off your poles now?
YOU missed the danger of breaking your thumb should you fall with the pole in your grip, extending your hand to brace the fall creates a fulcrum at the thumb loint and can break your thumb. This is actaully very common occurence.
Good addition Guy. I don't have any experience with this (luckily) does this also happen if you have no pole straps attached to your poles?
It happened to me, I was wearing straps. If the pole leaves your hand before impact it won't happen, if the strap keeps the pole on your palm, then it can happen. So it depends on when you let go of the pole and where it is on impact.
I had this happen because I lazily skied of with the poles dangling by the straps and had one windmill and trip me up. I was still putting the map in my pocket when I started skiing. Yeah, my bad.
I dont put my thumb through the straps to avoid these problems
Good idea T, I found that after a while of not using pole straps I just removed them as they got in the way.
If I go in the backcountry, as a group we are counting on each other for rescue. The mechanical advantage of pole straps to get to someone injured and then to frag them out is so huge. Try loadings a sled with 150+ pounds of weight and the drag with and without pole straps and you will understand. Keep the straps.
To each their own, but gripping a pole when you need to and then being able to drop it when you have to is what can possibly prevent a tree well death or shoulder dislocation. Old habits die hard, and change is not easy but always good to consider and try new things. After almost dying in a tree well (thankfully I had no pole straps on my wrists) I am only of use to others if my safety is paramount. Rescuer first they say.
just ditch your poles and sign up for ski school!! Pizza - french fries - Pizza - french fries!!
I wouldn't go that far, but it works for some.
Did you save the community center?
1. No full yardsales
Which is definitely a good thing!
why not just use releasable straps?
It's a good question Josh, but think about being trapped in an avalanche at a precarious angle-you likely won't be able to pull on the pole with enough force to release the strap as it typically has to be a very quick and forceful motion. Releasable straps would work if you snag your pole on a stump, log or branch while skiing (most likely) but if it doesn't release as intended guess what does,... your shoulder more times than not. That's a risk I'm not willing to take and I've had it happen many times before but luckily the strap was around my glove and my glove came off instead of my arm! It takes some time to get used to no straps but once you do it is easier, faster and much, much safer! Give it a go.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada yeah its not better for sking though.
No solid blocking pole touch and avalanches simply do nt happen here. I am also certin the pole would come off.
THe issue with no straps is it make your upper body move your arm, you do not have blocking pole plant, and you have to use a stronger grip to hold the pole while blocking.
I can assure the poles release with no issue, I have literally tested them for 6 years now.
@@Bushwackerinpa We'll have to agree to disagree then. I have been trapped in a tree well hanging upside down from my skis fully vertical, a full 6 ft under the snow's surface and if I had had ski poles straps in use I'd be dead. The only reason I got out of the tree well was because my hands were free. And, I should mention this was in bounds at a resort.
Releasable pole straps would not release in tree wells or avalanche scenarios. Pole straps also do not make your upper body move more, the planting action comes from your wrists for the most part and as far as stronger grip? this would be minimal and a small price to pay for the added safety in all situations, resort skiing as well.
I've also tested releasable pole straps and they are simply not a 100% effective solution. If you ski in the east where avalanches and tree wells are not an issue then you should be fine but for us in the west, they are not a safe accessory and should be sold as an add-on, not standard.
Enjoy your pole straps, to each their own.
I never put my hands through the straps all the way, I will keep my thumb OUT.
Sounds like a good compromise, hopefully, you can get your fingers/hand out in the event of a tree well or snag.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada yeah I think if I ever did powder or big mountain skiing I 'd liking want to ditch the straps
@@RyGuyTheAVGuy Agreed. That is a good idea as tree wells are a real concern, I know from personal experience.
@@Backcountryskiingcanada As someone who has exclusively skied on Piste my whole life I was really surprised about the tree well thing, very interesting, little scary especially the idea of being upside down in one. thanks you for sharing.
@@RyGuyTheAVGuy Glad to have brought this potential hazard to light and know that you're aware of it - ski safe out there!
Never ever use straps. Poles are to be held if there are not even there.
Exactly!
only if you are skiing, ...otherwise, they are perfectly ok
not following your comment?
@@Backcountryskiingcanada for just regular hike and not skiing
Yes for hiking there is no danger as you are not moving fast and there is no snow!