The Cultural History of Tai Chi
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2016
- The religious and theatrical origins of Tai Chi were completely hidden after the Boxer Uprising. This video begins to unravel the problem. For the whole story, told for the first time ever, see my new book!
TAI CHI, BAGUAZHANG AND THE GOLDEN ELIXIR, Internal Martial Arts Before the Boxer Uprising.
Available here on Amazon (2019): amzn.to/2LFvL0E
--(2023) It is available as an audio book too! tinyurl.com/Tai-Chi-Audiobook
Also see my first book (2016):
POSSIBLE ORIGINS, A CULTURAL HISTORY OF CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS, THEATER AND RELIGION.
amzn.to/3vrQmir
Scott Park Phillips has a reputation for making his students stronger, smarter, richer, funnier and better looking. He livers in Colorado, where he mixes martial arts with improvisational theater, dance ethnology, and Daoist studies.
You can subscribe to my most recent writings at:
scottparkphillips.substack.com/
Workshops & Classes in Colorado northstarmartialarts.com/
And here is a link to some free articles by me: mailchi.mp/20efb3afce2c/free-... - Zábava
As a Chen taiji person, I found this very interesting. Don't worry about the anonymous haters. I enjoyed the sound effects. :) One person who viewed this told me he found it disturbing that taiji was influenced by performance art, but if I can use every one of the taiji movements for powerful self-defense, it doesn't matter to me how it originated. A lot of things we do originate in culture and mythology (religion) and we never really think about it.
Maybe you have it backward and the martial reality was hidden in the theatrical. As with many martial arts having to go underground, but being saved in dance.
Yes, that is right. In my book I explore the questions from three different angles: Theater, Religion, and Martial Skill. Both Religion and Martial Skill are embedded in Theater. Both Theater and Martial Skill are embedded in Religion. And both Theater and Religion are embedded in Martial Skills. It was originally all one subject. amzn.to/2fNxY9g
Would love to hear how Yang style re-interpreted this and the meanings behind it. Great video..
I am going to buy your book. From what you presented, I believe your research has some significant value. Art has a unique ability to retain knowledge that is often forgotten. The rituals are familiar, like the observance of the lunar new year, but many of the trappings, most have no clue to their meanings. Even through my rudimentary work translating Chinese Tai Chi text, I have come to understand how original texts are often presented to students rewritten to express the teacher's interpretation of the text. There is a lot of revisionism. Much is lost and disregarded as irrelevant. Maybe for the warrior this will mean nothing, but to the scholar it will be enriching. Thank you for sharing.
I have to get a copy of your book. I think your research has some compelling points. The southern Ming patriots were known to hide their seditious activities working as traveling opera performers and conveying messages encoded in the performance itself. Even today, the artistic license of kung fu movies shape our perception of what real martial art heroes were in the past. The cinema style of fighting even has a continuous flow feel of a stage opera performance. Later Bruce Lee changed that, with a more staccato cha-cha-cha feel. Not surprising considering he was a ballroom dance and trained to act well before he trained to fight. I think this narrative might upset some practitioners, but it might be closer to how Chinese culture looks at "it's" own martial art. As westerns we superimpose a lot. Often not even considering it. Thank you.
Epic!! Thanks for this. I have been intuitively teaching Gong Fu as to the meaning of how we accumulate virtue for a while now, and this really helped fill in some historical gaps. Grat work
Well.... about Pi Pa... You are talking the opposite. The truth is the Pi Pa was invented first before Pi Pa bone was named. The formal name of scapula bone has always been 胛骨 (Jia Bone). Because scapula bone looks like Pi Pa, so that people who don't know its formal name call it Pi Pa bone. Also, Pi Pa was NOT a Chinese instrument. It originated from Kucha which was not a part of China Back then. The word Pi Pa was literal translation from Kucha language. Pi means tabbing strings forward, and Pa means tabbing backward.
Interesting point. But I don't see evidence for the theatrical meaning of Tai Chi before the Ming dynasty. So all four meanings of Pipa would have been in the language by then, right?
We met years ago at a conference on Taoism on Vashon Island. Just want to say this is a wonderful video. The best thing I've seen on the History of Taijiquan on video anywhere. Great research and demonstration. It is very heartening to see this kind of work being done.
Bill Frazier
Amazing video, I'mreading your book as well and I find your arguments very compelling, great job. Keep up the good work!
Very impressive caricullum vitae! I have just discovered the video and your website accidentally, searching for information about the subject of Taichiquan. A very serious scholar indeed, on historical, ethnographic sociology, and on various aspects of behaviour of human evolution. Very interesting man! I would be looking forward to read the books.
Hi Scot,
I'm a newcomer to Taichi and been practicing for about five years the long form of Yang and old form of Chen styles. At the age of 65 I'm enjoying immensely the benefits of these disciplines that employ the body and mind . I'm absolutely astounded by the depth of historicism that is involved with these arts as a social phenomenon, not only as an expression of its martial application but how deeply integrated within human cultural evolution it has been. I've enjoyed the video but I was also pleasantly surprised by the comments column. Very good read. Challenging debate by knowledgeable participants. Fantastic!! P.S. in a historical context, the martial activity, has been expressed as a polemic dance in many cultures throughout the human evolution. So it is not surprising that the martial element as a human expression is intermingled with other forms of human activities, such as music, theater, dancing, literature etc.
That's great to hear, can't wait to see what you make of my books!
@@NorthStarMartialArtsUSA Indeed, I'm looking forward to get acquainted with your work.
That was the most awesome thing I seen on CZcams!
Good work your perspective reveals more deeper aspects of the art.
This could explain why MMA players beat wushu players in contact situations.
I'm reading one of his books on Kindle. I find his research deeply helpful to my understanding of the terms of the postures.
I like the comment below on the origin of play the pi pa. So many methods employ the idea with different postures.
Anyway, people, read this gentleman's book.
Wu shu is dance, silly.
Amazing! Thank you!
This is a great video about the history and essence of Tai Chi Chuan. I watch it over and over.
Question:
In your book do you explain what you say on the last part of the video (11:59) : The dark path of enlightenment: violence change us?
This is the most problematic part for me to understand in a practical way, or to accept as something viable.
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I discuss this concept at length in both books. In the second book I cover not just the connections between enlightenment and experiences of violence, but also the transgressive nature of the Tai Chi tradition.
That was brilliant! Now a little question, is there a link in your view between karate and Buddhism/confusianism? Karate obviously has so much in common with kungfu and Chinese martial arts?
Yes, I cover this in my first book "Possible Origins" --
cool man thanks for sharing
Would you share a little bit about the sources for the conclusions you draw?
In the video you seem to largely be engaged in comparing movements and concepts across art forms, and in some cases across cultures to say in effect "See these two movements or ideas are similar, so they must have the same historical root." If I am mischaracterizing your position please correct me.
I am wondering if there are any primary sources that explain the relationship you are suggesting between taiji and performing arts or any historically continuous art forms that you could point to that either support or underpin your work?
Additionally, I looked at your website, but did not see, do you have graduate level training in theatre, Chinese studies, cultural anthropology, or something similar?
Thanks for the question. It's all in the book! Please buy a copy. The paper addition will be out soon too. amzn.to/29JcjKv
I look forward to reading the paper version. I have no love for digital text and I am sure I will die holding a paper book in my grip. I find a lot of spin here, reminiscent of the work of the late great Joseph Campbell. So, you are really not in bad company for me. Although, in all my reading and research I have never heard this from Chinese masters. It is very scholarly and I doubt this would be the motive behind the martial minded masters. The Chen family clearly states (Chen Zhenglei) it was the Yang family that added the mythical ancestor Chang San Feng to add Taoist credence. Chinese history gets destroyed and rewritten dynasty by dynasty. Although I enjoy this presentation, it would requires a lot of clarification between fact and fiction. The book would require a lot of footnotes. If you were really interested in the 術, this would mean nothing. Thank you for sharing. I love a good mystery.
The Chen family argument isn't coherent with historical facts. And the absence of documents is not a valid argument. No one who seriously looks at this issue from a broad perspective can ignore the theatrical and religious roots of the art. The Chen's have more mime than the Yang's. It will take me a while to get my taijiquan book out, but when I do everyone will see that Zhang Sanfeng and the roots of Taijiquan are found in Ming Dynasty theater.
"And the absence of documents is not a valid argument?" That makes your job easy. Outside of the fact that the oral tradition does not support your claims. General Qi Jiguang's military manual is probably the source of the names and techniques found in the Chen style. Encoding using names from classic sources was a way to ensure secrecy. I am sure military men had no need to make a nod to the theater. It is interesting, I will give you that.
Exactly, except that proves my point beyond a shadow of a doubt, Qi Jiguang's naming scheme was used by Zhang Sanfeng in the Ming Dynasty theater. Please read the book when you have the time.
Bro I'm subbing it's been time since I've seen a white doing Tai ji at this level respect bro
Fascinating!
Thank you.
Da Yu married a bear????????........ Da Yu married a women whose surname happened to mean "bear"(有熊氏).....
What you explained here is the naming tradition, which doesn't explain martial arts at all. I have to let you know, if you read literature & history books written before 1900, you will find similar names too. And those names were not only applied to martial arts but also chines cuisine, carpentry, winery, architecture, science, poetry....... By the way, they do not think those in their mind while practicing.
In my next book, almost finished, I show how Zhang Sanfeng fought on the stage during the late Ming Dynasty. It is true that the naming scheme in martial arts often seems disjointed, but that may be because a particular art is new, or because we don't know the story. If the art is old and we know the story, as we do now in the case of Tai Chi, my bet is we can find the story's through-lines for any given martial art. If the meanings of the names were consistent across many fields as you say, that actually supports the argument that miming these terms was 'readable' by the general public.
9:22 By the way, does this method apply to "all" Chinese martial arts forms practice? For example Tan Tui, which is seemingly more simple and just done in lines? Or were some practices purely physical and combative? A form of practical drills as it were (like in western arts) as well as some very old and well preserved Chinese arts that I have had some training in, such as Xinyiliuhe, which has no forms as part of the practice, only singular movement drills, (but of course there is also Shamanism, which are methods of invoking various spirit animals to ride the body) which may imply a differentiation between arts that used these certain rituals and others that didn't and ere more for lack of better terms; "grounded in reality".
In Tan Tui there seem to be references to every day life actions, like the yolk carrying, mill grinding, farming etc. As opposed to tales of immortals, esotericsm or similar. Since the arts did use code within the movements to refer to things and keep them secret. But not done in the way of a taolu or ritual sense. (That I know of?)
There are a lot of questions in there! I cover all of them in my book: Possible Origins, A Cultural History of Chinese Martial Arts, Theater and Religion. Tan Tui is in fact basic training for Beijing Opera! Many of the TanTui styles were modified and simplified in the 20s, but the style I learned from Kuo Lien-ying is very close to opera and harder to do than later simplifications. Liuhexinyi is a complex case, give me three hours and a beer... It comes from Thunder God Rituals, the theatrical creator Yue Fei was in fact an incarnation of Garuda who is the model or all thunder gods, that's why half of the 10 animals are predator birds.
You can buy the book here: createspace.com/6361417
In the book I make the case that the older, more theatrical arts, are actually more grounded in reality...in the sense you used it, martial skills.
*****
I see thank you, it's very interesting! Loving your work.
BTW You might find the documentary; iron fists and kung fu kicks interesting.
Hi, Scott! My name's Nick Varela, I did a bit of training under you when I was in the Jefferson Wilderness Program in Daly City, during the mid nineties. Most of the training was in Tan Tui. I ran into you a couple of years back at Spreckles Lake, you were training with George Xu on that day...
I love your videos, this one was really awesome!
I had actually done some Yang Style Tai Chi with Bill Chin there in Golden Gate park, as I was rehabilitating some shoulder surgery that I had gone through. Prior to the surgery I was also a student of Chris Chan at the U.S. Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy. That's how I met Bill Chen through one of my Si-Hing there had also been a student of Bill Chin for over thirty-five years.
I just wanted to thank you for the exposure to Chinese Kung Fu. I always been interested sinceI was a kid, originally I had practiced Judo from the age of eight to thirteen, but was always attracted to the Chinese Arts.
Again, thank you!
Hi Nick, it is really wonderful to hear from you. So glad that I had a positive influence. The Jefferson Wilderness Program was awesome, and I have fond memories too. Stay in touch! and thanks for the kind words.
This was really fascinating thank you.
Weird but didn’t know that
But most of this techniques comes from real wrestling like for example single whip is mentioned in general qi jiguang books and he explained it as a Martial technique with a practical fonction,i don't maybe this movement become more religious after but there were definitely wrestling techniques
Oh, man! You are going to love my book. I cover the religious life of General Qi Jiguang, his teachers, and his influence on Operas. www.audible.com/pd/Tai-Chi-Baguazhang-and-the-Golden-Elixir-Audiobook/B0BQJX7FGP?asin=B0BQJX7FGP
@@NorthStarMartialArtsUSA oh i see i read it and i love it
oh by the way do you have any sources where i can find more information about chinese opera and martial arts in english or chinese i don t mind
Great stuff! You cover a lot of ground here so I expect the book will be even more eye opening. Citations become useless after a certain point of investigation as not all your observations or theories can be "proven," but nonetheless, these facts exist not independently and within the context of each other. I hope everyone can benefit from this eye-opening video and practice their own critical thinking. Keep up the good work!
Dude! There'd no audio!!
"Opening the Dan tian.." Wrong. It is CALLED " tie one's coat" but they dont think of those things in their mind while practicing. It is one of the grappling technique called Chan (entanglement)
It is fair to argue as you do here, that in practice some famous masters are not doing it the way I say it should be done. But most masters keep the advanced practice a secret because they want to keep winning against their students forever. I have been practicing this form for 30 years and I have stolen secrets from many different masters. If the master does not practice jindan, then they are inventing a new tradition--and very few actually teach jindan. I hope to change this. Are you on board?
People who practiced Jindan invented a new tradition. "Purified" martial arts can be found in many places. For instance, the form used by general Qi Jiguang(1528-1588) to train the army. His form which was recorded in his book Jixiao Xinshu does not involve with Jindan or such. And the name "dan bian" and "tie up coats" also appear in that form. You are right that the first movement means "to start". That's because martial arts originated from military, and soldiers needed to practice forms altogether and had to hear the order "to start".
The Taoism concepts were brought into martial arts in late Qing dynasty. The first person who claimed that Taichi was related to Zhang Sanfeng was Wu Yuxiang(武禹襄 1812-1880), because Taoism was so prevailing at that time, he had to say so to promote his Taichi. You must know Chen taichi originated in a rural village in Henan province. People from Henan did not have contact with outside after Yang Luchan brought Taichi to Beijing and made Taichi popular, so traditional Chen style did not have those religious concepts. Chen Fake was the first master from Henan to Beijing. You are the descendant of Chen Fake, you should know that Fake criticized the concept of Jindan/Dantian after he saw how people decorated Chen style Taichi with those religious concepts, and his Taichi was not soft at all. Nowadays, people still talk about "jindan", even from Chen linage, because it simply sounds "profound". The Boxer Rebellion happened in the period where the popularity of fake Taoism concepts reached its peak. Those corrupted martial arts.
Chinese Opera borrowed Martial Arts' basic training techniques to train their actors, and they usually exaggerated martial arts movement to make them more theatrical. One recent example would be Master Li Yaochen(李尧臣 1876-1973) taught opera actor Yang Xiaolou(杨小楼) monkey fist because Yang Xiaolou needed to play Monkey King. Also Li Yaochen taught double swords to the famous actor Mei Lanfang (梅兰芳) because he needed to play scene about drunken swords. Those actors organized martial arts' techniques to make them more monkey-ish and drunken. Many poor actors/actresses claimed to be martial arts masters, because in the past people who performed Opera were considered as the lower class and no better than prostitutes. If they were not good enough to find a stage to form they had to perform on the street. By claiming to be martial arts masters, they could gain more attentions since no one cared about "prostitutes". Many forms we can see now that are so theatrical are from those people.
To add one thing. Dantian is actually an alternative name for waist. When people say "exert powers from Dantian", it literally means "you should rotate your waist".
Thanks for the wonderful reply. You obviously know enough to be a reader for my next book. Please consider it. I'm aware of all those facts and arguments. Many of them I covered in my first book. Possible Origins. amzn.to/2iHwaDF.
The main thing I challenge in the first book is the idea that martial arts, theater and religion were separate before the Boxer Rebellion. Allow me to tag just a couple of these and not leave them hanging. Chen Fake said that because he was part of the purified martial arts movement (jingwu/guoshu etc...). In my next book I prove, with original documents, that Zhang Sanfeng was a fighter in the theater during the Ming, the scholars who claim otherwise are simply wrong. Qi Jiguang was "reinvented" in the 20th Century as "proof" that purified martial arts existed in the past. But I did a little digging and found out that Qi Jiguang practiced jindan and participated in a type of martial ritual for the battlefield dead, he was also a devotee of Zhang Sanfeng. Those 20th Century scholars who say otherwise were trying to cover up the truth, and no one until me has seriously examined their claims.
@@NorthStarMartialArtsUSA im gonna add... Use fa jin to clean the body soften and connect not to strike.... Use internal rotational Power to generate powerfull countermoves to hit like Mike Tyson.
My Audio book is out! Paper back too. www.audible.com/pd/Tai-Chi-Baguazhang-and-the-Golden-Elixir-Audiobook/B0BQJX7FGP?asin=B0BQJX7FGP
This is interesting stuff this kung fu history myths and legends i never knew this nice video. Also i heard wing chun has similar story to taichi about a woman shaolin nun seeing a crane and snake fight after fleeing a destroyed shaolin temple and created wing chun you know why its similar to taichi or tai ji quan and which is the made up story?
The Tai Chi version was in print 150 years earlier. But your question about where the story comes from is very interesting and complex. That's like an extended essay question. Snake and crane movement experts were part of the theater, and the wing chun temple burning story is probably a reference to the Theater Guild in Foshan being burnt at the end of Opera Rebellion (1854). Snakes were thought to be the cause of future violence because the homeless ghosts of people killed in battle, seeking vengeance, tended to possess snakes and then make the jump to humans. It is possible that cranes were thought of as nature's exorcists because they eat snakes. So I read it as a version of the ghost fighting the exorcist which was one of the most common themes in Chinese theater. In martial arts terms it is a way to remember to always use both snake like waves and crane like shrinking and expanding movements. Check this out! northstarmartialarts.com/blog1/2016/5/26/snake-kungfu-from-vietnam
Are the basic movements the same as in Carlos Castaneda's Tensegrity (Magical Passes)?
No. Castaneda has been widely exposed as a massive fraud. He never even lived in Mexico.
not bad. I've studied and written extensively on the origins of this and this is a decent presentation. good to see it!
The one thing that stands out in this video is the cherry-picking of interpretations. Chinese characters do indeed have multiple meanings and can be highly dependent not only on conversational context, but also local cultural context which will vary from region to region. This is further complicated by the observable fact that even today there are significant dialectical differences across regions - and even within regions.
Yes, dialect differences, the era the term is from, and most importantly the cultural context. That is what my book: Possible Origins, a cultural history of Chinese martial arts, theater and religion is about. Are there particular terms that you think suffer from "cherry-picking?" I followed Ethnographic standards by starting from the movement itself, putting it in context, and then looking at the naming schemes. So I'm open to any changes you might suggest.
I think you do not understand dialectic difference in the context of my comment. It is not a case of a term meaning one commonly held interpretation in a specific era. This is not era-associated, but is a persistent phenomenon across and within all eras, and one that exists in modern times too. What it appears you are attempting to do is shoe-horn chosen interpretations into a preconceived framework. Virtually all of your interpretations are cherry-picked to accomplish this agenda. Further, when referring to cultural context it should be noted that China does not have a singular cultural context. Even further, any such cultural context is not restricted to formality or ritual but exists in the daily interactions of people. This is one of the reasons why we have some difficulty understanding people from our own culture who were raised in a different period to our own. Referents change, even if core cultural elements remain relatively constant.
As for "research" - provide your hypothesis, methods, results, argument and references to the peer review process. This is the acid test for academic work. All else is unsupported speculation.
I'm totally game to have a conversation about the context of a specific term or two or three. But if you are going to throw out my entire thesis without having read my book, I will just delete you. I love a good critic. Step up or be gone.
If you feel strongly that you are on to something then please write it up as a journal article and submit it to peer review. This is the critical test. I would be more than happy to review such a paper.
It has already been accepted and peer reviewed. There was a delay in publication that had nothing to do with my paper, so now it is going to be in the Journal of Daoist Studies. Due out in November I think. But if you just want to review the material it is in my book. The next book should be out soon too with much more material. amzn.to/2t9SNlA
Very cool!
GREAT! Thanks!
very very interesting
0.0
Peking opera
dommage pas en français et le visionnage est saccadé mrrrr
Interesting but suspicious history on taiji. Unfortunately, your wacky looking form kinda discredits the historical component.
Why you put stupid comment below my video?