Why Your eDrums Can Feel Weird - Sounds VS "Play Feel" | The eDrum Workshop
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- There's a phenomena that's exclusive to electronic drums - the sounds and the playing experience don't always line up how you expect . In this video, I compared Roland, ATV and Pearl's approaches to the sounds in their modules vs their playing experience and explore how that relationship can make or break a drum module for a player.
- Hudba
Really enjoyed this video. I think you're dead-on right about the Mimic/aD5/TD50. They're all great in their own ways. But they all have individual limitations unique to each of them.
Thanks Justin, really appreciated! Absolutely, and the playing experience will be subjective for everyone so there's no easy way to tell which is best for you without giving them a try.
The td 50 combined with superior 3 is hard to beat. The drumtec-guy told me nothing comes close, and I fully agree.
@@soulslaveone that may be true for snare ride tom and cymbals but for the hihat sadly is not the case, SD3 hihat is still in 2021 the achilles heel of SD3
@@laloadler8044 see what you mean, but ive heard the atv-hh is king because of the infrared open/close sensor. Bought the vad506 6 months ago now with the new digital hh, and thing got better with the hh, but still the hh isnt perfect. (Got no infrared height-sensor like the atv one...)
You've come a long way bro. And...cheers!
Your explanations are amazing. Thanks for posting this stuff.
Thank you!
Great first video
Thanks! Hope you enjoy the next one!
I actually do have another video up if you're interested, though it's a little more specific. It's called "Creating Natural and Playable Electronic Sounds", somewhat of a tutorial for sample layering to make good electronic kit sounds! It's definitely one for those who are into the more techy side of eDrums, so check it out if that's up your street!
Great video and content, looking forward to more... liked and subbed. Have a great weekend
Thanks Steve, glad you enjoyed it! You too!
Thank you, great explanation. I use a Roland drum module at home for practicing and a ATV kit (artist pads and aD5) with my band. Out of the box the Roland, as you mentioned, is ready to record. The ATV is more fun to play (especially the cymbals), sound great via in-ear monitor and a high dynamic range, but need some treatment (compressor and ambience) for recording and gigs.
Great video, such great content. Just subscribed to the channel. Keep it up mate!
Thanks Joseph, really appreciated!
Stumbled onto one of your vids and found a bunch more! Great content and knowledge being able to talk about so many brands. After having a TD30 set up for years I missed the real acoustic feel and am going back with an A2E...I was not following the edrums news for a while so missed a lot of innovation. But yeah it's HARD to know how something will actually perform and feel...sometimes you just have to buy stuff to review it and see if it's worth upgrading to.
Glad you're enjoying the videos! It's difficult when you want to retain that acoustic feel, sometimes feels like you're chasing something that doesn't exist! But yeah, the reality is that you just have to try as many different products as possible and find what feels natural to you - that can take a lot of time and money but it ends up being worth it!
You raise some good points here. I have personally owned a couple of Roland modules (TD20 expanded and TD17) and both Roland and 3rd party (Hart Dynamics) pads and I now own an ATV Artist Series kit with the AD5 module. From my own perspective the ATV is certainly offers the best sound/feel/playability but I do acknowledge that there are some caveats. Anyway, for balance here are some reflections from another owner who has experienced both Roland and ATV approaches to the e-Drum experience:
1. Most of the ATV samples are very good but it’s true that the sounds are on the dry side which can sound/feel a little underwhelming. HOWEVER as soon as I purchased a relatively inexpensive mixer with built in digital reverb the whole experience was transformed - add a little plate reverb (and occasionally a dash of EQ) and the sounds come alive and the whole kit feels immensely more playable. Many will say “why should I have to pay more for an external mixer?” but the combined cost is still much less expensive than some other solutions.
2. You’re right that the ATV cymbals are superb and personally I haven’t noticed this issue you mention with the fully open hi-hat sound. If I have any minor niggle it’s a wish that some (not all) of the hi-hats had been sampled even more tightly closed at the fully closed end of their range. But played in the context of a song they sound very good. I did also find that out of the box the relative volumes of the bow and edges sounds seemed a bit unnatural on some hi-hat pairs, but that is very easily tweaked in Instrument Edit.
3. The snare you mention is one of my favourites too, but as with the hi-hats I have not really noticed this issue you mention so perhaps it’s partly a question of playing style. I’m not saying that the sampling layers are perfect - on a few instruments the transition between sample layers can occasionally be heard and I do wish that was tweakable, but it’s only something I really notice when playing in a manner that deliberately draws attention to it, and almost never when simply playing in the context of a song. And if ever I do notice it I remind myself that this is a module which offers a very believable sound and feel at less than half the cost of a Mimic Pro.
4. When I have owned Roland modules I have on one level enjoyed the ability to endlessly tweak the sounds. BUT, I have found myself doing that a great deal to the exclusion of actually just enjoying playing. The hunt for a perfect sound became a mostly fruitless obsession. Plus, I found that I probably used only about 10% of the on-board sounds (and only ever the acoustic kit ones). In contrast I find most of the ATV instruments are very usable/playable and I when I do swap instruments in an out of a kit it is not because I am dissatisfied but rather just because different voices inspire slightly different nuances in my playing (for example the stunning Sizzle ride from the Sound Store really gets me wanting to play some Jazz). Also I have created some of my own kits with combinations of instruments that may seem a little eclectic (e.g. toms taken from 3 different tom sets) but which sound/feel great.
I don’t doubt a PMP is better but for many of us price/performance at least as important as outright performance . The Ad5 isn;t perfect but if you work with the it's limitations and relish its many strengths its a great option IMO.
Thanks for taking the time to chime in with your experiences! I can't really add a great deal as you've heard my take on it and it's all incredibly subjective. But I very much agree that for the price it's a great module for those who want what it does. As I think I mentioned in the video, I did indeed apply some FX to the aD5 myself and it really did help - I just personally prefer all that in the box and had the means to buy different modules instead at the time. I would never tell people not to buy an aD5 if they think it will suit their needs. As you say, not having to tweak is a blessing in many ways too - I've felt that inspiration to just play the sounds before with other units and it really is something that shouldn't be overlooked! Thanks again!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Cheers! Worth adding that the first "fruit" of ATV's new relationship with Canopus - i.e. the legendary Canopus Zelkova snare drum - is apparently due to be available sometime this month. I'm hoping this evidences an even more meticulous approach to sampling which from my perspective would further justify the ATV option versus Roland's sounds which do always sound - yes subjectively - rather artificial to my ear.
Oh, is it that soon? Great stuff! I liked the sound demos I've heard, looking forward to seeing how ATV owners find the new sounds! Hopefully they'll be able to get them out a bit more regularly now too.
Great video that brings up a lot of fantastic points. I primarily use my e-kit to rehearse along to songs at home. I recently bought a mimic and after a month of tweaking and frustration I've come to the conclusion that I was much happier with my TD-12. I just can't get the mimic to feel like a real kit whereas the Roland kit just worked out of the box. The mimic's samples are pretty realistic (with the exception of the crash cymbals... ugh) but I think I'm going to eat the depreciation and flip it back out for a Roland brain.
Thanks Joey! Shame you've not had a positive experience with the Mimic. Personally, I find the Mimic cymbals to be some of the best around (fully sampled acoustic cymbals, after all) but it's always subjective. You might want to hold onto it a little longer, there's rumours of an update on the horizon. But understandable if it just doesn't click with you - that happens sometimes, hence the video! If the a Roland provides you with a better experience for your tastes, only you can judge that!
I've got one of the vad kits recently. They feel quite good. Not an acoustic but really workable.
I have not seen anyone else discussing this very important topic. I have usually always ended up using internal Roland sounds when practicing, even when I've had superior drummer 3 and the rock foundry ex at hand that I've used for recordings. Somehow those crazy good sd3 sounds don't seem match the playing feel as closely as Roland sounds do. It's really hard to explain why. I just purchased the Death& Darkness ex and I find that the Death library raw sounds for the first time actually match and exceed the module sound's playing feel. For the first time ever I'm ready to not use module sounds at all. Roland seems to have something profound figured out, even though they get a lot of hate on how bad the sounds are (and they really don't sound that good to be honest. They just feel good).
Super!!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it 😊
Great video and channel Luke. I’ve just started playing edrums an I went for an ATV artist kit with the AD5. What you say about the AD5 is super interesting and not something I’ve thought about or really felt I’ve experienced. Combined with the ATV pads/triggering it seems to work really nicely but I can imagine your frustration with its limitations. As I’m new to edrums and this whole way of playing I don’t know any different yet (apart from trying a couple of TD50s and TD17KVX in stores). It’ll be interesting to see if I find the ad5’s lack of adjustment limiting or frustrating as time goes on. VST + TD50 sounds like a really interesting setup though. Maybe something for the future as an upgrade? Ha ha. Keep up the great videos.
Hey John - really sorry I've taken a while to get back to you, for some reason your comment was flagged as potential spam. Really weird!
Thanks for the feedback, glad you enjoyed the video! The strange thing about the playing experience of eDrums is that it really is unique to each person - you may never feel your aDrums the way I felt the aD5 with my particular setup and hopefully it will keep you very happy! Their approach really is different to other companies, but that's no bad thing - it just didn't happen to gel with me.
The new TD-27 that Roland has announced could be a fantastic option for VST users down the line. You never know!
I have the full atv setup and once youv got it just right it fits like a glove for me
The ad5 paired with adrums is really nice feeling
Great Video, I'm considering the Mimic Pro to replace my TD-30. Does the Mimic Pro support Positional sensing like the high-end Roland TD modules?
Thanks! Unfortunately not, Roland had a patent on the positional sensing when the Mimic released. I'm not 100% clear on whether the patent has expired or whether it's something that would be able to be added down the line, but I personally wouldn't bet on that kind of thing.
They just added PS to the Mimic Pro - Luke has a video on the upgrade
What did you think about the play feel of the 2Box Drumit 5 module? Drum-tec (I assume Ralf) said it's not on the same level as Roland, Mimic or Efnote, would you agree?
I use and played live this module and sounds very good and to me feel very good.
But you have to use the zourman boxes if you use roland hat and ride.
It’s a good compromise between the price and the sound.
I went for it because of the sound.
I just don’t have the perfectly right feeling on the ride and the hi-hat but I can live with that.
They sound good but feel sometimes weird.
I’m considering to switch to a Pearl Mimic Pro in the future.
It’s very very expensive, too.
The 2box drumit five that I bought, I found that used for 400€ with the zourman boxes.
The Mimic cost 3000€.
So, for that price, the 2box is awesome.
Do you have a background in music technology?
Nope, just a total gear geek!
Which module are you using or the little excerpts that play throughout your videos?
I've got a TD-50 and a Mimic Pro, so any videos I do will usually be using those. In this video there's also a clip from the ATV aD5 for that section which was taken from one of drum-tec's demo videos as I didn't have my aD5 module anymore when I recorded it!
The eDrum Workshop Do you have a separate email address or another way that I can contact you? I have questions as I am trying to create my own kit.
Yeah, there's a contact email on the About page of the channel!
anyone have experience with cubase 10.5 and roland modules?
I haven't myself, but hopefully someone else can chime in!
The ad5 is certainly for hard hitters if your the drummer that plays an ekit way harder than it is so posed to the ad5 is gonna be a good choice , I cannot use Roland because when I listened back to a recording it sounded just like a fake machine I tried the mimic and it was good but every kit had the same lifeless feel
The mimic is overly clean every kit feels the same but there’s no live type of feel to it but I don’t see the strike getting as much love as it should be either
You guys ever played with a butt-kicker? CRAZY what a difference that makes!
I haven't had chance to try one yet but I'm borrowing a friend's P&D throne soon to try one out! Hopefully I don't enjoy it too much or it'll be an expensive day 😅
Thats exactly what I want to say! It's a complete new experience. I had a Pearl Throne thumper first which was amazing but my P&D Throne is ways better. Feels more like playing on a big stage with a huge PA System.
@@MarkuzP66 Literally just tried one out half an hour ago, my friend at the studio set it up to have a play with on a mesh kit with a TM-6 Pro. First impressions - very weird, but I think I'll end up really liking it. Certainly feels like the kick-back from subs on a festival stage.
I like the atv drums but don’t like the sound I have High end kit it’ acoustic sounds lovely with no eq and amazing raw
Yeah, I think the ATV sound approach is an acquired taste and only works for certain people. It just doesn't gel well for everyone! Is there a module you prefer the sounds of?
Thanks for watching!
The eDrum Workshop defo the td50 love the sound and the what you can do with it
Nice one! It's really flexible once you know what you're doing with it! I've got another TD-50 video lined up about making better snare sounds, hope you catch it when it lands!
Dude. Take it from me: Ive had all roland kits and tried lots and lots of other kits too. The td50 combined with superior drummer 3 is the new standard. Nothing comes close.
I haven't fully delved into running VSTs with my TD-50 yet, but I can imagine it feels amazing. I might have to revisit this topic down the line with a VST-centric video. I didn't get into the relationship between your module's feel and a VST library here as it would have ended up an hour long haha!
I agree that the sounds of the drums are amazing but the deal breaker for me is the high hat. I just cant deal with the abrupt changes in velocity layers. There is only 6 and the sudden changes from one to another when playing slightly open which I do alot it will be changing back and forth between layers and sounds so awkward it ruins the experience. The rest of the drums, snare, cymbals are excellent. I hope one day they can improve the high hat with more layers.
@@acmekanik9135 totally agree... i'm loving the TD-50 but can't get the HH to where it feels right. It never did with the TD-30 either.
@@acmekanik9135 almost 2022 and not even with the digital hats and SD3 latest update the SD3 hihat triggering still sucks…
@@laloadler8044 I think atv got it pretty close with their infrared hh-sensor. An Obvious solution for fast height-measuring!:)
I don't mind hitting crash splash or China rubber electric symbols it's the rubber ride and hats that really suck... Also most electric snares are pretty lackluster..
Roland rules hands down far as playability. If you don't like the sounds tweak a little bit spend a little time with your set no matter what the brand. Out of the box it's damn good though. Sounds are subjective and opinionated anyway .
Hello, thank you for always giving good reviews
I didn't fully understand the contents of the video because I'm Korean.
I am thinking about aD5 and mimic pro. Which one would be a good choice?
So let me ask you a few questions.
1. As far as I understand, aD5 is the same as the raw sound and cannot be customized, but is the overall sound quality of the instrument good?
2. The advantage of mimic pro is that it is more processed sound and becomes EQ. Which one is better compared to aD5?
3. Is the combination of mimic pro and atv adrums good? I wonder how it is in terms of touch response and accuracy.
Hello! Thanks for watching!
1) From what I remember, the sounds in the aD5 were of decent quality. They do sound quite "close" and "dry", you can tell they were recorded in a small room. There are also only a few layers and round robins so if you do quick rolls you can hear a bit of repetition, but overall they sound nice if you like that kind of sound.
2) That's really a matter of personal opinion! Some people prefer a processed sound, some prefer a "natural" sound. The Mimic sounds already sound very clean and "perfect" (if that makes sense). Some people don't like that kind of sound, even without the processing, but the Mimic is better for my own personal preferences. I would listen to as many demos as possible. The other advantage for the Mimic now is that the Mimic Instrument Editor lets you load any sounds you like, if you have the samples for them.
3) I have only used the ATV aD-S13 snare and aD-C18 ride cymbal with the Mimic. They both perform very well once you have set them up properly. I imagine it would be the same for the other pads.
I hope that helps!