Subspace Communication in Star Trek
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Let's look at the lore behind subspace chatter, relays and the Federation's network that supports it in Star Trek.
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This Video is for critical purposes with commentary.
Sir, we are picking up an incoming Subspace transmission. Put it on screen..." greetings we are initiating first Contact to inform you about your car's extended warranty"
I think you mean "ship"
We know what we said.
Resistance is futile.
@@spiritusmundi70 I think we've finally discovered the origin of the Borg.
"Would you be interested in selling your home?"
Based on what we've seen, subspace communications seem to have a limited range at which they travel at extreme speed, after which they seem to slow significantly and/or degrade. This can seemingly be avoided by relay stations receiving and re-transmitting at full power again, allowing near instant communications across the Federation and adjacent empires. This also explains how the Hirogen relay network was able to allow Voyager to communicate with Starfleet for the first time. It also explains why the Borg message in "Regeneration" would take 200 years to reach the delta quadrant. Even with enough power to remain coherent, it still slowed drastically.
Well, yeah. I’m pretty sure that subspace relays are mentioned on numerous occasions.
@@jayb8934 well, yeah. I'm pretty sure being condescending in response to an interesting comment will convince everyone that I, Jay B, already knew all the lore and am king of the nerds.
@@oliparkhouse I was just telling them that they’re correct.
@@jayb8934 very good.
Well done
From what I remember they weren't actually hirogen's, the network was very old and was only used by the hirogens, who built the network is still unknown
Given how far humans spread into the galaxy, I'm sure that even in Star Trek's future, you can ask someone across hundreds of light years in realtime: "[this option] or [another option]?" and they will still answer "yes."
That fact about how trill tapped into subspace communication before getting warp drive is something I never heard before.
Very interesting
Humans knew about subspace before warp travel. You can't have ftl travel without ftl sensors
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket expanded universe sources and apocryphal novels show humanity experimenting with subspace before warp.
You can't have warp drive which uses subspace,, without sensors ...
NASA developed navigation systems before spacecraft
@@spikedpsycho2383 cool, doesn't matter. Trek's subspace doesn't exist irl, and the in-universe lore says communications usually come later. Doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's how it is. Move on.
@@spikedpsycho2383 subspace detection and manipulation experiments do not necessarily a radio make. Plus it seemed pretty clear that the Phoenix only had regular light-speed sensors, or else they should’ve all detected the Vulcan ship farther out before their journey. They just did a short trip within the solar system, for which you only need accurate position data for celestial bodies to calculate where you can and can’t go for such short trips.
It seems like subspace communication was severely underused as a concept in Trek. I think it was just there as a convenient way to have characters communicate over vast distances in real time, in the same way that most Trek viewers were able to using telephones. It would feel weirdly backwards if they had to use messengers or drones to pass along what amount to telegrams.
That said, I think it would be neat to have more episodes where someone or something manipulate subspace communications in some novel way.
Imagine the UFP being contacted by a species that wants to join, but doesn't allow anyone to know where their planet is. In communications they look like any other humanoid species, but over time little inconsistencies in their presentation start adding up. By the end we realize that they don't have a planet; they're actually energy beings flitting around their star.
I wonder if Barkley micro wormhole used to talk to voyager change the long distance communication...I wish he become famous in the future for this too
Oh, most certainly. In the 32nd century they communicate with all corners of the galaxy fairly instantly.
I've always had this picture in my mind that since it's subspace, meaning "space below our own" (simplified explanation, of course), that they build these huge relay stations to handle the sending and receiving of data/transmissions, but there's just one guy that goes out with a knife, cuts a hole in space itself and inserts an antenna into subspace to enable it all to work :D
I love the utilization of the sovereign class
Is there a space internet?
I like to imagine other species nearby didn’t make the same thing, and so they heard the concept and were like “wow what a great, industrious idea for the benefit of everybody involved!”
And then we give them a taste of the real shit
And then they find Twitter and never use it again
@@xanderguldie 4chan and 8chan would be a reason to place warning buoys outside the Solar System like with the First Federation in the Corbonite Manouver
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket I liked when Lwaxana Troi mentioned subspace dating profiles, except it was clearly modelled on those mail-in dating services rather than the (extant at time of writing) BBS dating scene!
I really like these videos about the technical aspects and worldbuilding in trek
Yep.
I can imagine Hologramic coms might work a bit like PC image reconstruction techniques. In the 24th Century setting - so that is why they look so high res - the com is transmitting a "model" of the sender initially an then transmitting the "motion data" only to display on the model - if it wanted to encrip the hologram that would work well for it more than a live hologram - though I recall in the Titan books telling a holoprogram something and then running the program was used a secure form of data transfer too.
I would be surprised if all visual comms didn’t do something like that.
It’s clearly holographic, even on the viewscreen, and they can use undetectable holographic filters on their image. And the holodeck can recreate them perfectly to make them say or do arbitrary things.
So you’d only need to send motion data and a transcript, or possibly even just the transcript at a minimum - though of course true audio and true live visual data should be an option when the bandwidth is high enough.
Damn! The Sovereign is beautiful!
Rick! You are on fire with these latest videos! Daystrom, now subspace comms YAAAAASS!!
Even in space... everyone screens their calls.
We've been trying to reach you about your starship's extended warranty.
@@graahbrains We'd also like to talk to you about this exciting offer to get your winnings from the Ferengi Lottery - all we need is your UFP ID number!
RIC Im a LONG TIME subscriber and you have truly stepped up your game with these technical files. I truly hope you continue your amazing work. Work I would happily fund if I wasnt in poverty.
My headcanon for how subspace can do all that it does is basically that it's a singularity dimension completely tangential to our own, into which information, energy, and even mass can be temporarily shunted via the expenditure of energy.
For example, subspace communications arrays will expend energy to shunt a signal into subspace, which due to being a singularity, allows that signal (properly tuned and calibrated for) to emerge at its target destination. However, the calculations for the emergence become more and more complex the further out from a relay you are, so beyond a given distance, it'll either be delayed to the point of uselessness, or have to be compressed to the point of incomprehensibility.
Warp drive (and even high impulse maneuvers) would work by shunting much of the mass of a starship into subspace, with Warp Ten occurring at 100% effective "immersion," where you experience that total singularity and are everywhere at once. However, the computing power necessary to ensure that the complexity of a ship and its inhabitants arrives at a particular destination, and the asymptotic energy costs required to reach that infinite velocity, make Warp 10 an unreasonably inefficient goal.
Using the mycelial network would effectively "cheat" these requirements by relying partially on the computing power and energy of a universe-sized organic supercomputer, allowing for relatively easy access to Warp 10 provided you have a navigator who can interface with the network.
Interesting theory! How do you incorporate the multiple layers and "honeycomb" structure Geordie describes in _TNG_ S6-E5 "Schisms?"
@@irregularassassin6380 I think it'd have to involve other parallel dimensions that also lay tangent to subspace, like the "mirror" universe and others, as the layers.
As for the honeycomb structure, it's probably a simplification of some whack-ass fourth-dimensional multiverse infinite lattice thing or something like that.
@@valritz1489 Ahh I see. Those videos trying to graphically represent 8th dimensional ... weirdness do resemble honeycombs.
Meanwhile in the real world, a number of theories and phenomena related to superluminal communication have been proposed or proposed or studied, including tachyons, neutrinos, quantum nonlocality, wormholes, and quantum tunneling.
Do u think tachyons will work?
I think the speed variability may be due to the power of the transmitter.
Aww, I was hoping you’d also mention Spock’s recently quoted ~50,000c speed for subspace comms 😁 I was pleased when they included that tidbit, as it gave a firmer figure than “9.9999” or “2 weeks for a cross-Federation transmission”.
If Voyager had a strong enough subspace comm laser, that means their logs could’ve reached Starfleet in ~2 years. But their comms are almost certainly not that strong to overcome signal dispersion over such a long distance.
In addition to the automatic syncing between starbase and starship databases you mentioned, my headcanon is each ship also carries an (encrypted for the destination’s key) copy of all inter-fleet messages, kinda like how Usenet used to work, so if ships run-into each-other before one gets in range of a base, they can sync-up to the wider database that way as well.
This would also be very useful when ships get sent on support missions for recent colonies, before they have high-bandwidth uplinks of their own. Much like a car full of hard drives getting better throughput than a very slow internet connection.
I like the idea of using the UT to help figure out a (new, bespoke?) common communication protocol on first contact. I’d often imagined handshake scenarios like “oh yeah we use TCP or UDP” and the other computer being like “…WTF is that?”. I’d figured they must have some impressive adaptive technology, but hadn’t considered that the UT’s logic is already rather adept at such work. Neat technology tie-in.
Found the comment!!
Ahem. Regarding usenet-type protocols: I think that is a fairly reasonable assumption to make, but would that not require a separate copy of each message for each other ship the messenger is likely to bump into? I admit, I am entirely unfamiliar with usenet, but I think it get the basic idea. Data is scrambled, and can only be unscrambled with the correct key. Only the intended recipient has the key to unscramble the data. Each ship has its own unique key.
But, would this therefore not require that each copy of the message be scrambled with a different key, thus forcing you to have multiple copies of the same file, with each one being a slightly different alphabet soup?
It might make more sense to have each ship have the key to all other ship's messages, and you scramble the data when you transmit the orders after bumping into the friendly vessel. Let's say the _USS Bellerophon_ is returning to Federation space from Romulus after the conference that saw Dr. Bashir arrested. They cross paths with the _USS Thunderchild_ which was diverted to intercept them and relay special fleet orders. Since they are just inside the Neutral Zone, both captains are very glad Starfleet's security protocols are strong. The _Thunderchild_ captain orders the transmission of the new fleet orders, and the comm officer scrambles the message with their unique _Thunderchild_ key.
The _Bellerophon_ receives the shortwave transmission (both ships are at stations keeping, because Trek), and their comm officer goes through their database, and uses the _Thunderchild_'s key (probably cross-referenced with the stardate) to unscramble the message. The _Thunderchild_ then moves off to intercept the _USS Grissom-B_ conducting a survey nearby to deliver the same fleet orders. They follow the same procedure after meeting up, but the _Thunderchild_ did not have to carry two copies of the same message.
Does this make sense? Am I rambling now?
Edit: Yep, and I forgot about the automated part while having fun playing with imaginary Star Trek ships. Classic me. Imagine the above interaction happened automatically, lol.
@@irregularassassin6380 ah! Thank you very much for seeking it out! And apologies for taking this time to get back to you :)
What you said makes total sense for symmetric encryption, where you’d have to trust the carriers to preserve privacy as well - but I was imagining a public-private key system!
In this schema, you have two keys, and use one key to encrypt the file, but the other corresponding key to actually decrypt it. So, it would only be one version of the file per recipient, not per-courier-ship :)
You can either encrypt something with your private key, and then anyone can decrypt it with your public key so this proves ownership/creation. Obversely, if you encrypt something with someone’s public key, only their private key can decrypt it. This ensures only the recipient can read it.
In this case that would be when the captain orders the computer to unseal the file, and it asks him to verify his identity first. Their “security code” would be their private key.
Or it could be the computer’s voice/DNA/etc scans when they ask to access their personal files, if they’re okay with the slightly riskier process of automatically applying it when the computer detects it as them.
It could flexibly be each individual person’s private key, or there could be a shipwide private key, or indeed you could layer those together (ie ensuring someone could only decrypt a file once they’re back on a particular ship, such as sealed duty orders). You can even trivially have a group private key for eg captains and above, such as that used to unlock the Omega data, so it’s one encryption version for the entire group.
I mainly suggest this, rather than sent totally plaintext as real Usenet was, because I feel like the Federation cares enough about security and personal liberty to at least use some basic encryption as a standard matter (a la HTTPS). Plus everyone would surely want even their personal emails to be at least slightly eavesdropper-resistant with all the other imperial powers in Trek!
And public-private key is a super robust system while remaining lightweight and tolerates being offline very well. But it’s still secure-enough while being lightweight that loosely-confidential orders and regular fleet updates could be sent with many encryption layers, confident that the initial standardised layers are enough of a barrier to prevent timely brute-force decryption while it still matters, even before they get to all of the even stronger inner layers (such as one-time codes physically given to a captain).
Other more secure options which change the key every data-frame require a constant connection to update each other’s counters and stuff like that. I’m sure they use schema like that for super top secret real-time calls to admiralty, but certainly not for every small message which would rely on fleet propagation to reach the recipient.
But I’m thinking it’s mostly useful for “slower” data, like logs, or updating databases/encyclopaedias. Not so much about very timely orders - the brass will want an acknowledgment response for anything crucial like that anyway, so they’d better be in range of other comms. But when it’s fine to get it a week or a month later, that stuff could all sync back and forth.
I imagine it would tolerate using the slower method as a fallback, but that would probably not be the intended purpose. Eg I suspect Voyager received a few years-old “hey uh where you at?” messages in the background while they were on the phone with Barclay, or on the Hirogen Network with the Prometheus in range. And no one else would’ve been able to know what those messages even were unless the home side told anybody.
(Edit: paragraphs)
Neutrinos sent via subspace create near-FTL travel. Batching neutrino packets (encrypted) are relayed in specific pulse sequences to specific communication arrays. Modulating subspace frequencies with a bundling packet encases each transmission with a specific point-of-origin identity signature for a Unique Registration I.D. This is how Starfleet can tell if a transmission is from a Romulan vessel even if the actual message needs to be decrypted. When a command to ‘open hailing frequencies’ then the transmission doesn’t get encrypted.
Not quite. 'Open hailing frequencies' is actually more akin to old-school dialup modem protocols. combined with wifi, where you make initial contact on a standard set of frequencies (the aformentioned hailing frequences), use that to establish shared communication protocols, exchange public keys, and determine what frequency to switch to for the actual process of communication. There's a reason why 'communications officer' is a thing. :-)
Sub space like communication might be a real thing in out future with quantum entanglement.
First off, this video is really cool and I've always wondered how subspace comms have worked.
Secondly, has anyone here read the TNG The Second Decade novels and, if so, are they worth reading also is it true they're in continuity with the Titan books and Destiny Trilogy?
Thanks for including Pluto💜
I💚Ric!
God I love how nerdy this channel is! This is pretty fascinating as I have wondered about this tbh.
Love that intro
In the Star Trek novels publish the 80s uhara mentions that sus face communications can travel at warp 20
TOS vs TNG warp scales.
TOS
But can you use subspace to Holodeck online with friends on other planets?
Lag would really be a pain.
the greatest wonder of the Subspace communication didn't got mentioned: you always catch the other side at the office hours
Well when you're contacting a planet, I guess, but in space the day/night cycle is entirely arbitrary so every starship and starbase in the Federation uses the same time
@@battlesheep2552 i mean, the Real Life reason is that you only have 48ish minutes to tell a complete Story and want to waste Time, but it would be fun if Lower Decks would poke some at that point.
And well, there are still many Starbases or other facilitys planet- or moonside and like with the Mars Rovers right now: it makes more sense to adapt on the local cycle than try to maintain the Earth based. Only that the Rover Teams that live on Sol-Time are a few kilometers away from Mars.
In the End it's fun to point out, laugh about it and remark it's a bit unlogical and than ignore it
If the receiving party is a starship, I should hope there's someone on the bridge if it's moving. Over than that, multiple work shifts due to expansion in commerce with other worlds and races, also pushing for increase in accomodations?
Finding other species via subspace would be so insane.
Here you are thinking you are uncovering this incredible new technology and you hear some aliens using it to host a DnD podcast.
0:24 reminds me of an episode of Stargate SG-1 s04e12 "Tangent" where Major Carter uses a time hack: "message ends 1400 Zulu"
This was Great!
6:47 faulty my ass, captain Pike had the whole system ripped out because the holograms looked too much like ghosts.
Radio and light speed transmissions garble into static after a few billion kilometers. So the idea aliens are watching our tv signals. The extent of human broadcasts has a diameter of about 200 light-years. radio signals become weaker with distance. Consider how your local easy-listening station when you're cruising the neighborhood in your car But head out of town, and you'll lose that station. Every doubling of distance causes a four-fold reduction in intensity. radio technology is incredibly sensitive, and - given sufficiently large antennas - we can detect faint radio static from the distant corners of the universe. That's what radio astronomers do, after all. You can always pick a signal out of the cosmic background static with a large enough antenna.
Ok. And yet, they and we, would still be seeing some type of signal from somewhere, if it exists anywhere relatively near us
The inverse square law only applies to isotropic antennas and strictly speaking there ain't no such thing.
All antennas have some degree of directionality which is what radio astronomy relies on.
Before it was destroyed the Arecibo antenna was used to beam signals to some relatively nearby star systems but any possible replies would still be on the way.
Notice that subspace radio was apparently assumed to be instantaneous in TOS but on TNG it was given not only a speed limit but also the inconvenient property of decaying to ordinary radio signals after traveling for many light years, necessitating the mentioned relay network. Believable limitations on fictional tech makes for better fiction.
I had a fun story concept to flesh out ENT era Boomers a little. I imagine Boomer comm officers would be running programs in the background to pick up, and record, old Earth radio transmissions on their voyages. They'd act almost like collectors, and compare who has the coolest transmissions in their collection.
"Well, I have JFK's inauguration speech." "Oh yeah? I have Winston Churchill's 'This is Not the End' speech." "Naw, naw, I've got you all beat." "Neil Armstrong on Luna?" "Better, the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show." "Oooooo."
Of course, that lets you have a fun opening to a story, where one of these characters picks up a genuine signal ... that's both waaaay too strong, and originating from the opposite direction of Earth...
@@irregularassassin6380 I GOT FIVE SEASONS of Jerry Springer!
@@spikedpsycho2383 Woah, awesome dude! I can't believe our ancestors were really like that, man. Hey, you should think about donating your collection to that new project they've got going on. I think they're calling it 'Memory-A' or something.
Correction: The TNG tech manual says that subspace communication goes 9.9999 and outright says that's 100 times warp 9.6 which is the Galaxy class's top speed.
Thank you for another excellent tech video. I'm almost always down for more videos about the wacky world of subspace lol.
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
Wait…whoa…many times it’s been said “Quantum Entanglement works regardless of distance” so surely a communication device based on
this principle would mean instantaneous communication.
Enter a non-descript Derf-class buoy-tender to dutifully service/replace the buoy in-question
..Actually, IIRC that *is* a sort of thing, but it's in the background and we never really see the infrastructure ships involved as such.
Hailing frequencies open.
I feel they've taken advantage of Quantum Mechanics Spooky Action At A distance paired particles. Vibrate one, and the other vibrates regardless of distance.
Something not really addressed, is if/what extent is ships systems & sensor telemetry, damage, engine status, weapons & personnel status, etc uploaded to the Memory Alpha , how often for safety, in event of attack on a ship, on who did it, where it occurred, if a ship gets destroyed, and then distribution of important communications to ship captains from Starfleet command.
Since it's a signal and not physical matter there is no subspace resistance/degradation; therefore most likely actually reaching warp 10 is the likely scenario.
I wonder if we'll ever see Quantum Entanglement Communications in Trek? If I've missed it then please enlighten me.
Don't think we've seen it in Star Trek, but Eve Online, that forms the basis for all communications.
@@raideurng2508 Star Gate was the first time that I saw it.
I wonder if the Iconian Portal Gates use Q.E. tech? That's the only way that I could think of that one could stabilize a portal whilst allowing for the movement of both the embarkation and destination point's planetary..drifts...
I'm more interested in how com worx given the advent of Satellite Iconian Gateway Relays. Just the same that's likely theory & not yet canon. You work is awesome!
The aliens almost came to Earth after tapping into the communications across the Earth till they discovered the amount of porn that was on the internet and that scared them away 😱😃
Cool.
Thx, Rick! o7
Sub space comunication is like sonar in worm hole
1:01 Our nearest star is only right minutes away though.
I was hoping you'd mention how it makes no sense. Like... I mean... Watch SNW. How does it take so long to contact Star Fleet... when it's like... Literally next door to Vulacan, which they can do a no lag vid call with instantly?
Plot based tech restrictions is messy business.
If you are talking about when they contacted T'pring about the Prisoner exchange, she was not on Vulcan. IIRC, They even said in the episode that she on the outer edges of the Federation.
@@apljack I don't know how I missed that in 3 total viewings, but I'll have to look into that. Either way... I want a map.
@@dhotnessmcawesome9747 it’s pretty subtle, but it’s in her log at the start mentioning the N’Kenkashtil (or whatever it’s spelled like) correctional facility is a long way from Vulcan and she misses home due to the distance.
I guess it’s the space version of putting prisons in deserts or cold wildernesses, rather than inside cities. Tons of them were on isolated far-away asteroids in TOS, so in that respect I guess it’s just continuing longtime Trek tradition.
They also showed live communication with Spock (when he chokes on his wine) before mentioning being far away from Starfleet Command’s signals a few minutes later.
It would be Just Luck that they were on the same edge of Federation space as the pirates were operating in, except that’s exactly how Angel planned it - since they were specifically targeting Spock and T’Pring and wanted them both isolated from outside backup.
I was like “hang on, plot hole!” the first time I watched it too though. They really don’t spell it out, they just leave the breadcrumbs for the viewers to piece together ourselves. (Possibly cut stuff for time too - that episode was _crammed!)_
@@kaitlyn__L It also comes on at what is late time for me and I'm a medical marijuana patient soooooooo............ I do tend to miss things come later in the day. I'll believe you though. That all sounds familiar. Maybe I just need to rewatch the series again. Again.... Again..... Again.
@@dhotnessmcawesome9747 oh, are you in Canada? I’m a bit jealous you don’t have to pay for yet another streamer 😁 and haha I can understand the trouble noticing understated details!
I highly recommend rewatching though - I’ve just finished my fourth or fifth SNW watch myself! I find it far more repeatable than the serialised series.
This is kind of like space cell phone towers that are far more powerful.
I was thinking they’re more like old-school microwave trunk lines 😁
Fun fact: Bad news travels at Warp 10
"Project Pathfinder"?
1:00 you mean "second-nearest" star. :)
Good video. The only problem was including the sewage from Kurtzman Trek.
What planets did you get the footage of the relays from?
edit: sorry, should've specified the planetside ones like around 0:16
Think you could cover laser communication in space? I think I've seen it a few times in Gundam where they flash a light and that might be it but idk.
The Expanse features the concept heavily too. Trek often mentions directional subspace comms and that would presumably be a subspace laser as well, they can aim it too precisely for it to be anything else.
Subspace infrared and subspace gamma are mentioned as sensor types, so subspace laser light should be equally as possible as subspace wide-area radio.
@@kaitlyn__L Don't forget TOS had a "laser beacon" that was designed to communicate with the Enterprise in orbit, though I think that was meant to be regular laser light (and I don't think it even got used).
@@irregularassassin6380 I believe their communicators were supposed to be regular radio rather than subspace too! They’re not sending interstellar transmissions after all.
But that got retconned, into saying just the Cardassians and Klingons use regular RF for local comms.
TBH I don’t really see why the Federation should default to subspace-RF for _everything_ given it uses orders of magnitude more power, but I guess the Federation does a lot of stuff “just cos”. Like warp core forcefields instead of more substantial shielding.
Even a communication from one end of the solar system to the other would benefit from subspace. But I doubt the ping times are high enough to matter from a planetary orbit down to the surface…
@@kaitlyn__L I totally agree with you. I sometimes wonder how many times the writers just handwave over moments where characters are using good, ol'-fashioned, shortwave radio and the like.
Also, hello again! Its been a while since our massive back-and-forth chain. Good to see you again 'round these parts!
@@irregularassassin6380 as more of my friends become niche-successful writers, I’m realising how often hand-waving is just a matter of practicality and priorities than “caring” about it 😅
Oh! I must admit, I hadn’t recognised yourself - a lot of default-avis blend together in my mind. So thank you for pointing that out! I hope you’ve been keeping well :)
I’ve actually been commenting on almost all the non-gameplay videos on here! But I’ve noticed a few of them get put right at the bottom of the comments for a lot of people… 🤔 not to shamelessly-plug myself, but if you fancied looking for it on here, I’d be curious what you think of my headcanon for a Usenet style store-and-forward system among/between all Federation starships! 😊
So basically they can block unwanted adds like raid shadow legends?
I got one for you rick, i kinda assumed youd cover it at some point but maybe not.
In DS9 starfleet become aware of a Massive Sensor Array on the periphery of the Argolas Cluster.
Is there any real information available about it?
👏👍
Basically like a massive GPS system or EE or o2 technically you could build one with Elon moser Skynet
So what episode was subspace first mentioned? I'm thinking it must have been TNG?
The first reference I could find was TOS:Balance of Terror.
Where a reply from Earth took hours, arriving after the situation was concluded.
@@raynethackery1 Roddenberry was a genius then
@@raynethackery1 Charlie X mentioned it, though I don’t recall if that was _produced_ first or merely _aired_ first. Charlie prevents them from communicating with others, saying “you don’t need all that subspace chatter!”
I believe many trekkies know that there's the subspace gimmick, so there's real time comms, and relays in some places etc.
But trying to explain and justify this scifi stuff with real physics or anything, and the huge power requirement of the transmissions, won't really help to reach the earth from thousands of lightyears.
But anyway, good clip 🖖
I'm trying to find a video for the starship. (TOS era) that fixes theserelays.
I always assumed Subspace was just 2-dimensional energy that can bypass our dimension's laws of physics.
Does Subspace communication imply the possibility of Superspace communication?
ComStar says pay your bills!
one of the biggest plot holes in the ST universe is that fact that the internet isn't a thing. I get that TOS/TNG couldn't see that coming but VOY/DS9 really should have. The only trek like show that does make reference to the internet is The Orville. Something (erm) the next generation of star trek should be lookign to do. I'm talking time that passes much longer after picard's lifetime.
What do you mean internet isn't a thing? It's very much a thing, but long-distance subspace takes it back into the realm of dialup. with the high-volume bursts happening when a ship gets to a starbase (aka, broadband connection).
@@VulpisFoxfire I mean the internet as a social media platform, not just sending letters across the galaxy between ships. While yes, the speed of long-distance communication isn't what we would consider fast enough for normal internet speed, like how we stream videos, but there would almost certainly be internets that are significantly more capable at higher bandwidths within systems and quite possibly between nearby systems. The internet isn't mentioned very often if at all in most of trek, I remember a few voyager episodes, maybe one TNG episode and zero DS9 episodes that even came close to the whole issues surrounding an actual internet, it's fair that even DS9/Voy didn't really know about the misinformation era we are in but there are definitely some unexplored episodes about how humanity deals with misinformation.
@@Ensivion well, they mentioned the internet in “Past Tense” and that Janeway’s ancestor played by Mulgrew one.
But by the Federation times, they just talk more about the Federation subspace network. But it’s pretty clearly capable of the same things - there’s mentions of dating profiles with exchanging pictures and so on, also “yearbook” type things like people post on Facebook today. Lower Decks has leaned-into some of the social profile aspects a little more here and there.
But no, they don’t call it an interplanetary internet, they call it the subspace (relay) network. But that’s just a naming convention, just like BBSes were online services before the world wide web, and also how the WWW gets conflated with the internet nowadays.
What about the hypersubspace from voyager
Did subspace communication cause any damage to subspace like Warp was supposed to done (TNG “Force of Nature”)
thank you . ( 2022 / Aug / 08)
warp factor 9.9999999999999999999999999995!
Is sub space theory even possible.. it would break lorentz transformation right?
if subspace allows for near instantaneous communication, why could it not allow for near instantaneous travel via transporter (teleportation)?
It can..as long as you don't mind having scrambled people at the destination. That idea faces the same issues as analog vs. digital over-the-air broadcasts...the former worked fine with 50% static broadcasts, still sending the show in a understandable manner. The latter is prone to lost frames, stop-and-start stuttering, and potential unwatchability.
There’s a TNG episode which says subspace transporters damage the DNA cumulatively. Though the Dominion seem to have perfected it - they can transport someone 3 light years away.
I'm sure Amazon will be the first company to utilize subspace 😐
One thing that's conveniently ignored in Science Fiction is Time Dilation.
Is it possible that Warp Drive is able to bypass or circumvent this problem.
It does. The warp bubble is the space around the starship wrapped up in a package and shipped. The ship isn't moving through space, the local space around it is.
Yep! There should be no time dilation for the occupants of a warp bubble. And they restrict impulse speed to 25% c for the same reason, that keeps time dilation pretty low. So it’s simple enough for them to resync their shipboard time with starbases from the minimal time dilation of impulse speed travel, and any that occurs from entering and exiting the gravity well of a new solar system.
algorithm comment
Please boost your audio a bit, it's so much softer than other videos
so we really are trying to shoehorn in holocommunication in the early to mid 23rd century into canon? That was one of the things that made me stop watching Discovery when it came out, but now I just watch it like its a separate little universe all its own.
Something to note...that viewscreen in TNG? It's actually 3D....
@@VulpisFoxfire the viewscreen in TOS was as well, albeit they only tried to show it a couple of times. There’s a theory that says any screen with a glowing blue border in TOS is just such a “holographic window screen”.
In fact that’s a pretty compelling reason to upgrade from a window with a 2D projection on it between SNW and TOS - you get all the same depth perception for the exterior of the ship as the window gives you, with the added benefit of getting it for comms and data displays too.
Subspace and such always seemed dumb to me. With that said it made sense to make a TV show work. It's a soft science show so your not going to get reality, that was never the point.
"The expanse" was a different creature and still a bit out there but good, slightly more in the reality vein and the film, "The Martian" and book were more of a reality type hard scifi. There was still a lot of latitude bit on the other side of the spectrum from Trek.
I think they all work in their own way and I'm not hyper critical of any of it as it's entertainment. I studied physics and engineering at university and could pick stuff apart all day long... but I don't. I take it at face value, suspend reality and enjoy the ride.
Copy that 👌
no, no, kid. sub-space is just jargon, communication is by quantum entangled atoms, Einstein said "spooky action at a distance". may be molecular, l doan know. Q
🤓☝️Um that's not a hologram a real hologram is in case in galass in which it uses light to make a 3d image within it
aka Magic lagless coms.
also holocalls still make no sense to me, despite me not liknig new trek, just do a video call...less of a hastle and surves the exact same thing really.
I don’t see much point on the bridge, but I think they’d have great value for sharing holodeck time with a long-distance partner or friend. Whether you’re doing an adventure together or just hanging out in a recreation of one of your favourite places. Especially since you can actually touch each other.
@@kaitlyn__L I guess holodeck VR chat sort of thing is one thing Trek never really touched on. Man, imagine the bandwidth for such a thing. oh boy.
First I’m sorry haha
Don’t be sorry. Just be better.
This video was entirely unnecessary. People need to learn to stop trying to fan-splain idiotic fantasy tech from bad sci-fi. It's a plot device, it's stupid, and it has no explanation. Just accept it and move on.