The role of gender in selecting a scapegoat by the narcissistic parent
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2021
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Today I want to discuss the gender dynamics that can be in play when a narcissistic parent selects a child to play the role of scapegoat. I believe that this selection process is often unconscious but the effects and role played by the parent’s and the child’s gender deserve attention. This is not meant to capture all the ways narcissistic abuse goes down between parent to child but to lay out how there can be a specific formula for it at times when gender is part of what triggers the narcissistic parent’s envy of the scapegoated child.
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I swear, every time I watch one of your narc videos, another piece of my childhood falls into place and suddenly makes sense to me. Keep them coming, they are so very helpful
100%, this man is a real treasure
Absolutely!
Yes. It certainly will resonate deep within you when a truth emerges.
This channel has helped me so much, in addition to my trauma based therapist.
I am the truth teller and scapegoated daughter. My first experience with bullying was by my own mother. It was a devastating experience that drove me to attempt suicide many times. You described my experience perfectly.
💖
Glad you have the information now. I am sorry you had to suffer this. I can relate. Happy healing! 🧡
I share your experience and I’m happy you are still around 🫶🏻
My mother scapegoated me because she is a narc and required all adoration to be on her at all times when my father adored me this evoked her jealousy and she assigned that role and trust me she was and still is the most sadistic person I have ever met but the world thinks she is a nice Christian woman, I am still suffering in life but she has it all, strange how that goes! I love your videos
Isn’t creepy how holy and sanctimonious these sadistic “parents” believe themselves to be?
Same story as mine except for the Christian part.
I identify w/ this so much 😢 Same! When I left our small town for the city, my father would take me to lunch and swear me to secrecy. He has passed now. Before he passed, he mustered up all his strength to lift his arm up to a fist 💪 (he couldn’t speak due to all the tubes) Through tears I said, “I know Dad I have to be strong”. He knew the hell I was in for w/out him around. 😭 The following week my mother said “your Dad raised his arm bc I asked them (Drs) to reduce his meds not bc you’re special.” Since my brother and narc mom gang up on me to say “Dad never liked you. He said he hated you.” Oddly, that hurts more than all the sadistic stuff she’s done to me... while living this pretend life of a good little Christian.
@@akayiatos Extremely creepy and disheartening 😧
@@brianf9615 It pains me that anyone can resonate! 😔
My mother was sexually abused by the oldest child in her family. She admitted to me as an adult that she always hated me because I was the oldest. There’s no telling what these people project on to their children. I’m just thankful I don’t live there anymore. I’m trying to pick up my life and go no contact.
Kristin, I don’t know the hurt you experienced but I understand pain….just know all of us survivors love you!!! Jesus Christ is the medicine!
All the time. You can feel the hostility from the person who disliked having a younger sister projected into you - suddenly you're their hated sister.
The mother and the scapegoated daughter; you hit the nail on the head. I frequently had a hard time speaking up as a kid and became known as quiet due to this dynamic. I have gone no contact 2 years ago and I am finding my voice for the first time at 25. I lack a sense of identity due it pushing myself down for so many years and while I am ahead in some areas of life such as supporting myself, and having my finances under control, my core sense of what I want to do with my life Was definitely hindered due to walking on eggshells and being small and quiet for so many years. Even hiding my femininity because it was not safe to do so.
Wow this is so me too and tank you for sharing. My narc mother envied my femininity and my unique personality and having a voice so she always tried to tear it down or shut me up and everyone I would be away from her I felt free and I felt like myself. She also shared the fact that she went through a terrible marriage and divorce and it’s like she wanted that to be my life yet my life with men is very easy and I meet very loving men and she would always make comments like “oh I wish a man would do that for me” every time a man would do amazing things for me or try and compete and mention random men who admire her. It’s a very sick dynamic and the best thing you can do for yourself and your health is stay far away and never look back.
I resonate so much with this, especially with hiding my femininity!
Same here. I am finding my voice now. You are not alone. I hope you continue to grow and have peace.
Our gender dynamics are reverse. My narc mom has an emotionally incestuous relationship with my brother. She tries to (crudely) woo him, and give him anything he wants. He’s had to “break up” with her. Meanwhile, I’m the daughter-scapegoat/human punching bag. To paraphrase Rebecca Solnit, I’m a mirror held up to her and she doesn’t like what she sees. Not the mirror’s fault! It’s all very Snow White/Cinderella/Alice and the Queen of Hearts in my experience.
My life EXACTLY! May explain why I identified with Snow White /Cinderella as a child. What’s worse is my brother married a woman very much like my narc mom. Narc mom and narc sister-in-law are in constant competition to control my brother so much that my nieces say they can’t call narc gma or invite her over bc their mom /narc sister-in-law doesn’t want her visiting.
@@Barely_Tolerable that sucks. I identify with that, too. Such lengths they go to to ensure that love is in limited and conditional supply. I feel sorry for them that they hate themselves so much (no matter how grandiose their self-appraisals) that they’ll never know what love really is.
@@akayiatos Exactly! The projection is real w/ them and yet, hard as they try to convince me I wasn’t loved, they’ll never know what love is.
SAME HERE. My narc mother I’m mad met golden child brother her son husband after divorcing my malignant narcissist father. He does not even have his own personality and has only had one girlfriend in all 29 years of his life because he feels indebted to her like a son husband so I know he will choose a controlling wife one day and I often wonder if his sexuality is not confided because he is forever treated like boy even as a man and downs not have any friends or contact with other family members except my mother who he feels responsible for to the point where he would bring his own mattress to sleep in her room because he feels he “has to protect her”. It’s a very sick dynamic and many in the family called it out but they only talk privately because my narc mother uses money to control them as if she is “helping them” with money but it’s a way to control her family while also looking down on them
@@Layla-fr7mf That is awful! This POV may lead someone to be grateful for being the scapegoat as opposed to the golden child. I feel *ugh* so sorry for your brother. Like they say, every child of a narcissistic parent is effected negatively. It angers me tremendously. Stay strong Li Lani 🙏🏼
Oldest of three, only girl, both parents raging narcs, father was the strongman (both literally and within our family). Years ago, a boyfriend who saw clearly the dynamics of my family of origin and my role as the scapegoat, always referred to my father as "The Great Santini". He had me to watch that movie. I remember how freeing the validation felt since I'd been brainwashed by both parents all those years into believing I was somehow the problem. Nice to be reminded of that movie again. Thank you so much for these videos!!!
I'm the oldest daughter of a narcissist father. His mom was BPD and his dad left them when he was young, so he had a bizarre obsessive relationship with her. I grew up kind of a tomboy not realizing that i didn't really feel safe to be "feminine". Even though he treated me almost like a son, he STILL didn't respect me as he did men (who he glorified) and didn't put me in the same "female" category as my mom and sister either who he saw as weak. I feel like he had fragmented views o women and used me to project his hatred of them and my mom as to project his love for them. I was the bastard child, he wanted a son to "continue his legacy' but what he got was a girl who would call him out on his bullshit.. oh well. 💅
I sooo relate to this!
OMG. That's my story! 😭
I believe daughters are more frequently scapegoated because many cultures still have a view that woman are somewhat inferior. So it's easier for a parent to say "look what my daughter has done wrong" , "she will amount to nothing" etc. and praise the son no matter what because that is normalized, and society favors them regardless
Exactly. Also mothers are more likely to project their unhappiness and frustrations on their daughters and see male sons as the only thing they've ever done.
They don't want their daughters to have a better life than them. It's like "If I wasn't happy because I'm a woman then you also shouldn't be".
I respectfully disagree. I grew up in an Indian family and my mother subjected me to the most horrific narcissistic abuse it would make you vomit. The daughters were all golden children. My family scapegoated me for decades and destroyed every friendship and relationship I tried to have. They even ruined my career. And in public my mom is the most charming angel you’ll ever meet, so when I tried to tell people how she was abusing me; I ended up looking like the abuser.
I have not been able to have a friend or a girlfriend because how would I explain to any woman I’m dating that I am being narcisssticslly abused as a 40 year old grown man? What woman wants to marry into an abusive family system?
If anything, mothers abusing sons is way more common in my opinion, because abusive women get away with their abuse much more easily.
All a woman has to do is cry fake tears, falsely accuse the man, and society jumps to her defense.
This is how my mother got away with her abuse. She would cry, play the victim and point the finger at me.
And since our society says men are toxic and evil and women are innocent, mothers get away with their abuse against their som
why does this matter both sons and daughters have struggled why are you trying to minimize male experience?
@@imthemanPlay because that’s how female narcisssits get away with abusing us men - they paint this picture that women = victims
And men = abusers
Growing up with a Narcissistic mother I couldn't express my self at all, So I grew up a quiet person, when I was with people I would just listen to them talk to one another, sometimes they would be having interesting conversations that I would have loved to join in and share my perspective on the topic but instead I would just imagine what I would have said in my head and not joining in the conversations.
I used to think that I was too shy and didn't know how to communicate with people so I just grew up an introvert and stayed away from social situations.
As I got older and found people I was able to feel save with, I began to express myself and actually was able to have an imput in conversations, help problem solve and advice people and share my ideas and thoughts. These people valued me and described me as smart, peoples person and say I give good advice and Im good at building people and have good leadership skills they even thought I talk alot😂,
This made me feel abit confused as I always thought I was shy, quite because I'm not good with people.
Only when that I figured out that my mum has NDP and started watching lots of therapist videos on CZcams then I understood that my natural state of being is actually a peoples person, I love to talk and express myself, all them years I thought I was antisocial, turns out being quite was just a coping mechanism to survive mums NPD.
Wow, In a way I feel a bit upset and angry, mum stole alot from my life.
I got seriously bullied in secondary school for being so quiet. I could have benefited so much with my natural bubbly and friendly way of being while I was at school, university and working part time while studying.
My natural way of being would have opened up so many doors of opportunities for me. Being that shy antisocial person really held me back.
But im happy that I was still able to make great friends and find safe people regardless of how I used to be.
And like Jay said that shy introvert was necessary to survive the abuse.
I'm just glad that I figured it out because it would have been horrible living that shy for my whole life.
I'm getting to know my friendly bubbly self more and I really like it. I can believe its me, I was hidden from my self😆
WOW... my story is eerily similar. I've come to realize im a littlechatter box. I laugh at how much I like to talk. Also, I've come to realize I like to help others and give insight. Just think if we survived this evil as children, what else are we capable of?? Be encouraged, and thanks so much for sharing your story. God Bless❣️
"hide his maleness" sounds really devastating 😳🥺😰
Yeah have to become trans
Great video, wonderful community here. The worst came for me when my parents got older and died; adult sibilings acting like brats, cruel, me: scapegoat. There's a bad "soup" of experience floating around in my head and body. Finding healing. It's a process.
Hello from India. Thank you Jay. Your videos are life changing.
Jay I think you are so on point. I always sympathized with my brother. I never got the golden child and scapegoat role until watching educational videos like you have here. My poor brother was the scapegoat. I was on the path to becoming another female narc, when God interrupted my path and called me to heal. Now I know that neither of us are at fault for our narc mother and father's neglect, cruelty, and abuse. I have a new understanding of the male's perspective with a female narc. I am devastated to have a story like this, but since I woke up I am doing everything I can to help my brother and myself move past this darkness. Thank you so much. You are the most kind and articulate voice about the issue I can find.
It makes me so happy to hear that your parents didnt succeed in completly ruining the relationship of you two
what do you think I can say to my sister to make her see what you saw?
@@jo.k.4210 Hey there, in terms of maturity, this one is tough because I am older and he was younger, but if he had asked "Is there anything you have experienced that you feel like I do not completely understand? I genuinely care for you sister and know you want protection," would have helped. This is what the parent should do, but eventually mature siblings speak like this to eachother. If it happened sooner, a seeking of understanding and not reacting, it would have saved some time. Gaslighting and denial did a big number in our household. I am wishing you the best for your relationship with your sibling!
oh i think it's very intentional at least in some cases. perhaps that depends on where they are on the narc scale...don't know but i believe they target the same gender child as they are to project onto them. it's a very cruel thing to do to an innocent person. I beliveve mothers target daughters because they are their source of envy and also if their mother's were in the same role...it's rinse and repeat. It's the most wicked thing to do to your own child for that reason. To be selected for this at all by a parent much less simply based on your gener is horrible while the other siblings go unscathed NOT your same sex.
@@michaeltucker6666 So it sounds like you at least weren't the direct target though they abuse everyone. Yes, "religious" narcs are everywhere! It's why many avoid church and it's pretty sad.
@@AC-ew2xr They are in religion, social work, human resources, academia and are even therapists. I guess they are everywhere.
@@Alsatiagent yep. I’ve dealt with them on all of these areas minus social work. I don’t understand it. Or why I get pinged for this everytime. It’s horrible, hr is a big one and I’ve been blocked for jobs MANY times by these trolls.
Most narcs do it subconsciously they don't sit there thinking let me have a kid so I can do this to them it's more like it comes out once the kid becomes an individual
The first setup of narcissist mother and scapegoat son leads to NICE GUY SYNDROME in adult son. I had vague idea but never spoke about it to anyone so didn't get clarity like today from the video. Counsellor usually do not stress on the root cause of the issue. well explained . Keep making videos.
Internet is full of shit. We need more people like you on CZcams.
Either that or an entitled narcissist
No my brother was always taught to scapegoat me by Narc mom
I am fully aware of the mistake's I made in my son's upbringing. Firstly over compensating in his early years to him feeling abandoned as a young teenager. I made huge mistakes!
God how I wish I could fix my family.
I had a narc mother and narc father, and narc sisters and one brother. I was the youngest. I am lucky to even still be alive honestly, from the effects of this type of abuse. At 52 I am actively working on my own recovery and have recently sought out another therapist. The aftereffects of this are horrific, like living in a nightmare in hell. I am happy to have found your content, it is explained in such a clear way and I have found is so helpful and very comforting. Thank you for your work and posting this content.
I have been dealing with narcissists since the day I was born. I did not fit well in my family unit...none of the children did but we each had a "special" role in it. This was normal for all of us because we didn't know any better.
My grandmother on my mothers side was a narc supreme (I only saw her a couple of times) but I heard the stories.
She did not ever claim my mother as her child but as her sister. I heard that she was a very hateful woman.
There is so much to the story of my life so I will bounce forward.
Somewhere along my path I met and married a very broken narcissist (because it felt like home).
I completely surrendered my soul to him and did everything in my power to make it work.
Bouncing forward,
I did divorce and find myself but I have lost my adult son from my first marriage along the way.
Not so ironically he married into a narcissistic family unit of which I have become the scapegoat.
The gaslighting was very obvious from the beginning but I tried to tolerate it for his sake.
In his eyes and theirs I am the one totally to blame for the breakdown of our relationship. I am considered "less than".
I have tried everything to "fix" it but we well know that a scapegoat cannot do that.
They refuse to speak to me. They withhold my granddaughter from me.
They left me in a very percarious situation that I am finding my way out of on my own.
They all are well aware of what they are doing to me emotionally and thrive in pleasure over my pain.
Enough is enough so I refuse to let this consume me but in my life there has been no escape from the madness.
I am happy to say that although I am struggling at times, I am thriving at the same time.
I am free from the toxic cycle of abuse, judgement and superiority.
Narcissism is an illness that I will never understand but after a lifetime of firsthand experience, I understand it far too well.
My heart goes out to anyone who has lived this nightmare.
Thank you doctor for all that you are doing!😇
Fascinating! Another great video Jay, that has given me helpful insight.
I’m a masculine presenting gay woman, and I was scapegoated by my narcissistic father. My father idealized his mother. I know there was abandonment in his childhood. I don’t think she was narcissistic, but she could have been covert.
I was an extreme tomboy growing up. It’s obvious in my childhood pictures from age 4 onward. I never considered I might be hiding my femaleness from my father. It’s an interesting idea I’ll explore some more.
Gender roles were VERY significant in our family. Females were subservient, viewed as less capable. Males were seen as more powerful, more deserving of attention.
It would make sense that I tried to hide I was a female especially to myself. I’ve had to work on this in therapy, and I’m happy with where I’m at with my gender identity and gender presentation now.
Thank you.
That's not limited to your family.. these are gender roles given to males and females in basically all of society.
This is one of the best, most in depth analytical channels on the subject
I know I sound like a broken record. Jay so get this dynamics. It's amazing and I'm eternally grateful.
My mother was insanely jealous of me. She divided the family into 2 groups: she and my 2 brothers vs me and my father. She was man-hungry. It was disgusting to see her giggled and talked about men. My father was a functional alcoholic, escaping into religion. My mother constantly lamented that my father didn't care for her, that he liked me more. She chased him and he ran. Whenever she caught up with him, she abused him. My father used me like a punching bag, hiding behind me while I endured the blows from my mother. When I disowned them all, I sent my father a letter, letting him know that I would not be there when he dies. I told him he let me be killed by my mother, one slice at a time. I used the analogy where my mother was a deranged circus master; I was the roaring scary animal in a cage; my father was the zoo keeper with the key to my freedom; my brothers were the circus goers who pointed their fingers at me, with pity, jeers, distain, and a sense of superiority. I was made to jump, roar, coward by the lashes of the circus master. No one came to my aid. Disowning them was the single best decision of my life. It is also a source of healing and empowerment. I revel in the fact that I let them know with no uncertain terms that I know they sacrificed me, and that I do not approve it.
The narc mother/scapegoat daughter dynamic sickeningly resonates with me. It’s just so unnatural regarding what the role of a parent is meant to be. The competitive and destructive stifling by the narc mother is just downright ugly. To have missed out on a loving relationship with a mother in this lifetime is tragic and heart wrenching.
My narcissist mother lost her dad when she was 8 years old. She abused our brother the worst. To this day she talks and behaves like 4 years old when she talks of her father. The boy took the beating.
I recently subscribed to your channel and really enjoy your videos. If I lived closer I'd make an appointment. I really wish you would address the 'moral injury' that occurs when growing up in a narcissistic house. I've never heard it spoken of alongside CPTSD or other related issues that stem from narcissistic abuse, only in a war related context. Thanks for what you do.
These videos beautifully create an understanding of the seemingly senseless chaos of narc parenting. Liberation from the burden of shame, self loathing and self doubt.
I had both👎 they’ve been in the ground for quite some time. I’m still fighting the echos of their existence.....
Spot on from experience.
I found my baby book, half filled out or less. As first son, you'd think she would have paid attention more knowing I would see it someday. While skimming through it, I noticed a comment mother left, about me knowing I would be important one day... have faced the world one handed only because momma wouldn't let go or because she tricked me into thinking I needed her.
My whole childhood the only pictures of me in albums were where I looked goofy or scruffy, years later found photos of me at younger ages looking feminine and genuinely happy hidden in the attic in bin bags.
I love the way you say things. It feels so inclusive.
My dad was a lieutenant colonel in the Marine corps and a Marine aviator and later experimental test pilot. When I saw The Great Santini I thought somebody finally made a movie about my dad. Funny you should mention it.
I really like your videos. They aren't patronizing or dumbed-down. It's like I'm watching a psych professor cover a subject that has special personal meaning for me. And it's pretty cool how you can get inside the life of a scapegoated kid. Every minute of your videos helps me to feel better. Thank you.
Why are many men unaware of family scapegoating roles? And forgive their narc moms?
Im gonna have to listen a couple times to this one! The work thing speaks to me.
I listened several times and took notes. It is not safe to succeed and expect to be loved or applauded or acknowledged. I’m learning not to share any progress with narc family of origin. Thank you, Doc Reid!
you literally know things i could never express. great work.
You do a good job. I hand the job over to you. The retired clinician. The narc. Children continue to idealize dead parents.
Thank you !! You have explained so much ! Thank you !!
yeah i dealt with some of this. constant male bashing from my mother. then into adulthood belittling, trying to make me feel not good enough.
Simply put, this was just absolutely fantastic. So very very interesting . And I have found this to be so true, this was a component of my experience, the last part. Thank you for continuing to help me make so much sense of it all. I am one million percent happy I have found your channel!!!!
So many equations, scenarios within family scapegoat systems.
It is interesting how your presentation frames the situation making it easy to see the wounds the parent(s) are tending to. I don't see any incentive in a person that has that much control to want that to end. They function well and thrive in that environment. It's like they reach a plateau in their wound tending and never develop beyond. With that much built in control it is near impossible to see an attempt at an olive branch moment as sincere.
Adding to your comment. I heard it said, '"Can a narcissist change?" is the wrong question; the better question is, "why would they want to, when what they are doing works so well for them?"' When what we are doing isn't working FOR US, we're propelled toward healing. My mother did make a few little steps toward healing, but I think it became too uncomfortable for her, and after she threw in the towel on recovery, she did even more (narc) damage than she'd done before!
@@charissaschalk5175I do hope you've been able to untangle yourself from your abuser.
Narcs regulate their emotions by treating partners and one child specifically as an emotional toilet.
The narcs friends and family do not care in my experience. They know they don't care.
I understand my ex had childhood trauma but it isn't an excuse to traumatize other people. He has zero incentive to change cause he's successful and "a great guy." Piffle
@@kitsune7351 I hope you forget the "great guy" illusion and remember who you are...
Thanks for this Dr. Reid!
Thank you so much for your videos! I've watched a lot of other videos on CZcams and your videos add a lot of detailed insights into the mechanisms at play. Thank you so much and I look forward to more of your incredibly helpful content.
i remeber as a child being not being allowed to 'speak up'
continually told... little children are to be seen and not heard.
i was the youngest, the scapegoat and the unwanted 3rd daughter [no male Heir]
Your content is encouraging me. Thank you. And now suddenly, with your disclaimer on gender, you're helping me deal with my gaslighting, while imbibing societal gaslighting. In my opinion only. None the less thank you
This one is very interesting, and brings up points i hadn't thought about.
This makes so much sense. My dad's mother was an emotionally distant single mother. I just learned from a cousin that my mom's mother was a very strong and accomplished business woman. I don't remember my mom ever mentioning this about my grandma, but her younger daughter mentions it often to my cousin's. Both of my parents are big on making sure they are and were the most functional parents compared to all of my aunts and uncles. We were the most functional family and my parents were the ones that always entertained, helped all of my cousins and kept the family together.
As I grew up I became envied by both of my narc parents in different ways. They gave me so many mixed messages. My older brothers who were twins seemed to be immune, until one passed away and it became convenient to complain about the other moving away and not seeing them enough.
Well said. You have a unique way of explaining a concept that is, unfortunately, prevalent today. Thanks!
My mother often told me that I was supposed to be a boy, then added, “Can you imagine how happy your father would have been if you had been a boy!” So disappointed were they in my gender that before I was in first grade, she said, “If you ever want to run away, I will help you pack.” A family photo of my little sister and me shows her dressed in red velvet and ribbons, her hair in elaborate curls. In contrast, I wore jeans, a tee shirt, with my straight hair pulled back with a bobby pin. Apparently my sister was supposed to be a girl and was treated that way, but I was supposed to be a boy, and looked like I actually was.
Spot on... recently my safe friend was surprised that as a young adult I don't know how to ride a bike but I remember my narcissistic aunt suffocated all my efforts to develop as a male..yeah she has a narcissistic father too. She even fears talking to him. I can now connect the dots.
This is sn excellent video. Again! I am that scapegoated son with the narcissistic mother. It never mattered how I should feel - it still doesn't. That is why leaving her and the situation behind is giving me a new life.
you explain these things so well, so thoroughly. thank u
This was great. I am so grateful that you tackled this complex aspect in an open, honest and thoughtful way. I am a woman/adult human female and think for boys these days it is already difficult enough with terms like "toxic masculinity" used carelessly but add to that a narcissistic parent into the mix and the results can be crippling. And about daughters this was spot on. Incredibly insightful. Thank you very much.
You have no idea how much clarification you've given me via this video
very helpful .thanks a million
Brilliantly explained from every angle. It matches my experience with both of my parents towards me (girl) and my brother that changed according to our development stage. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you look forward to your videos.
When i was born i was the Johnny come lately kid. My mother was into her 40s when she had me. I have three significantly older brothers, who were all teenagers when i was born. My mom always hoped for a girl. She just knew i was going to be female...
Then i came into the world a healthy baby boy.
I believe that is why she resented me and treated me the way that she did. My two nieces are roughly my age, (2 years between us all) and she treated them like she was their mother...and me like dirty laundry.
She hated me for being a boy and never let me forget it her entire wretched life.
I am finding your videos very helpful. However, the gain (volume) is often up too much on your recording. Turn that down a little while recording, and then turn up the volume in the video late please. Thank you for your videos!
Yeah I love the videos but the acoustics are rough on the ears
I'm a daughter with mother and I relate to the son and father dynamic. Completely what I do, even the work example fits.
Thank you. Just - thank you.
You’re describing Leonard and his mother’s relationship on Big Bang Theory.
HOLY CRAP this makes sense across all families and extended families!!! I can see this between my siblings and their kids!!!
Spot on.
This really resonates.
You just described perfectly the path of narcissism in my narc family.
Neurotypical target neuro divergent too. Being truth tellers
Oh yeah!
This was an interesting subtopic though, all of the gender dynamics.
I was the scapegoated daughter of a narcissistic mother and a sociopath father. The favored child was my younger sister. There were only girls in the family, except for my father, and I always had the sense, based on what toys and clothing I was given, that he probably wished I was a boy, maybe because he was outnumbered, and he might’ve wished to do father son stuff like playing ball.
But what you described about narcissistic mother and scapegoat daughter rang so true for me that I never knew it until now.
I was born into this world energetic, vivacious, lively and loud.
I’d been down about how I ended up so stifled and repressed. My mother is a really hideous person inside and out.
It felt strange when she said “I love you “ because she showed me hatred.
Her hugs felt cold, empty, strange and foreign, I think because I was so used to her showing me violent touch that shows of affection contrasted too much and therefore felt inappropriate, even though I’m not meaning anything incestuous.
I think the footnotes should stay on the screen a bit longer. I have to pause the video to get the message because it leaves so fast
The always feeling like being watched follows me around today and it's psychologically tormenting because it's like being alive but not being able to be alive because deep down inside that will trigger them to harm me
My anxiety is because of narcissists in the world today
I might be not fully clear on everything about scapegoat and golden child, but I felt like during my childhood me and my slightly younger brother would switch off on that. But now that we are adults I am more of the codependent people-pleasing sensitive type. And he is more of the manipulative narcissistic type. I don't know if the outcome is related to the beginning treatment of the child. I was always the one who had to keep the peace in the house and try to hold everything together. It's so nice living on my own now.
You sound like more the golden , and he the scapegoat
I always pick up senses of things like gender-related things and it can end up making my head spin to the point of not wanting to just associate with this individual
my father is a narc, and i was the scapegoat i remained empath, took on the abuse, i was punished for protesting abuse, i reconected a voice and boundaries at 28 when i started my recovery 3 years ago. My dads' father and mother where both narcisistic and his mother probably being the most abusive or intrusive, he probably has homosexual tendencies that he hides due to probably that dynamic you described in the beggining. Truly a traumatic way to grow up for him, him and all his siblings developed narc tendencies on somelevel of the narc spectrum somemore covert him being very grandiose entitled and abusive as fuck, and projecting another image to the society. I am grateful for 3 years of recovery almost from those abusive messages and things i needed to do in order to survive. And more connected to my boundaries, a positive self-worth, bill of rights, and healing the beliegs and undeservedeness of being a scapegoat in that system all while being somewhat or a lot of a truth teller about it, and about narc abuse, and keeping and having empathy (with boundaries) a natural part of who i am. We can change the world by healing, supporting each other and telling our story. Of childhood narc abuse, or this abuse as adult as well.
Thank you! Your videos help give such a clear picture of reality in these relationships. This information is soul-saving.
Mom, dad, (taught) siblings, both grandmother's, silent grandfather's, and aunts (both sides)?
Very interesting, but slightly confusing,,,,,
Those poor boys who are scapegoated
Oh it was very easy with me turns out I wasn't his child, but golden child was. But we were never told.
Perhaps why some men are dysfunctional or failure to launch, outside the family. Might even prioritise narcissistic moms needs over, there own.
11:52 I'm not saying that all AFAB non-binaries had toxic narc dads, just that I and all the ones I know did.
Does anyone know if this is what happenned in Nietzche's upbringing?
My mother and closeted (until I was an adult) gay stepfather chose me as the scapegoat, I was the oldest and the only girl.
💡
I was very excited to see this topic only to be disappointed that it covered sons far more than daughters
Thank you important topic. The sound is a bit muffled out. I was born in nuclear ☢️ family, the second , middle child, female older sister younger brother. Narc mom relegated anger scapegoat middle female.
This is blowing my mind, I’m 37 years old and just realised last year that I’m Bi and that I’ve identified as gay for so long because my mum raised me with dolls and dresses because she didn’t want me to grow up to be abusive like my dad.
I used to think my family is fucked because I have two Gemini for parents turns out they’re just narcissist
LOL i'm virgo, for whom gemini are problematical. Seriously, though, being bi is challenging, for me. I think being monosexual would be easier. In my family, the daughter resembled the father, the son (me) resembled the mother. Mother & sister were so violent i was driven towards homo. But i adored the female body, & sex w/them. I'm so grateful for the women i loved, and their message: "Umm, we're NOT all like your ma & sis". But i've ended up with no one, seemingly unable to pair bond. Too much violence, love=mortal danger
Not really sure why my mom chose me as the scapegoat, (middle child- daughter, i have an older sister and younger brother). I know whenever my mom was super angry with me she would rant for hours about everything I ever done wrong to her starting from when I was an infant.
So my speculation is she had untreated post partum when I was born and associated all her negative feelings with my birth/existence (note I'm 14 months younger than my sister and 14 months older than my brother, so I'm sure those early years were tough) Plus before my brother was born we moved to NY (my mom is Turkish and my dad was in the Air Force) so me being under a year to barely 1 year old around that time of the move and then my brother's birth probably didn't help. she was dealing with my sister as an explorative toddler and my very obviously needy newborn brother in a new country I feel that probably made her resent me as this in between that wasnt quite as "independent" as my sister but I wasn't a higher priority to her than newborn son, so it probably left her irritated at me.
All speculation so I could be wrong, also doesn't justify her behavior whether or not it is true
Empathy is a crucial concept in understanding not only child maltreatment, but its intergenerational transmission. One form of maltreatment, often involving both physical and emotional abuse, targets one child in the family, referred to as the “scapegoat.” Historically, the scapegoat has been regarded as the only abuse victim; clinical experience demonstrates otherwise. In many families, siblings identify with the parent, joining in blaming the victim for the caretaker's abuse of that child. They demonstrate empathy deficits, which may protect them from the effects of witnessing the process. This paper proposes a conceptual model that examines factors contributing to the development of empathy deficits. Ten elements are identified and a unifying model is proposed; the implications are examined.
Key Words: Empathyemotional abusescapegoating
Hi, I’d love to read that paper. Do you have a reference?
Narcissist will abuse all kids. There is no one scapegoat. It depends if the main scape goat is home or not etc. It is a misconcept there is only one scape goat.
I can see what you are saying as my brother and I were both abused as were my sons, and in neither case was anyone too interested in giving a whole lot of attention and praise to any child, but in cases like this it often takes an obvious problem or catalyst. If one of the kids does something wrong such as getting arrested, getting fired, or even getting sick, they will be looking for a way to blame you and then you will become the clear scapegoat even if there is no golden child. My sons were scapegoat and Invisible child for instance.
The golden child while abused is not a scapegoat
Do you think the parent decides to abuse a child according to the birth gender of the child or the gender the child identifies as? Just curious.
Fathers @10:36
My mother was a spoiled brat all her life .no abuse...
But she was VERY jealous of her older sister who was very popular married well became an important civic. activist...but my mother WANTED to be "Belle of the Ball" but was not a likeable person..was not physically attractive...ironically SOMEHOW she got a blind date with my father..who was an all letter man at a sports school ..very smart..very good looking..he had a bright future...
He thought it was with someone else .but was too much of a gentleman to cancel the date...
I have NO idea how she caught him or held on to him...
and I think she knew EVERYONE WONDERED...
She and his best friend ended up hating him because he was so valuable and people wondered what he saw in them...They spent their lives sabotaging him...
And he was CRAZY about me...that was enough to make her hate me, too..
I now see why ...but still struggling with how painful it was and ALMOST HOPELESS TO ESCAPE HER SABOTAGE AND DEGRADATION...
Both my parents are misogynists (My mother hates other women)
My mother envies her younger brother soooo sooooo much and thus hates all youngest children (I am the youngest)
And I am the neurodivergent sibling
On top of that, I am the only Christian
Obviously I will be the Scapegoat!
Too many reasons! 😂
If you want to upset, someone, tell them a lie. If you want to infuriate them, tell the truth. Out of the mouths of babes, comes the truth, followed by the wrath of the narcissist.
How does this show up in trans people?
see the comment i just made below!
How about exploring the idea of a gay narcissistic father who definitely had a sadistic streak? Interesting childhood. Would not want to repeat it.
Famous golden child children celebrities who have a family scapegoat sibling living in poverty. Madonna Mariah Carey Cate Blanchett Gordon Ramsay and Josh Brolin Leonardo DiCaprio Jennifer Aniston.
[CW - verbal abuse and misgendering]
I love your work, but I'm disappointed that you didn't explain the differnet ways trans* survivors expereince this. Simply mentioning that gender is an identity wihtout exploring how that operates only serves to erase the very different expereinces we have from cis people. Because that identity is a social-relational construction, it's always (but especially in early psychic development) a co-construction with the reflection of the Other.
Trans survivors face a funhouse worth of mirrors as a result--
1.) The twisted misrecognition of narcissistic abusers projecting their toxic self-hate onto us;
2.) Their misgendering of us, when usually we're not even fully conscious of our transness yet
3.) Toxic Intersections between #1 and #2 in childhood - e.g. the abuser tells a non binary kid they see as a "girl" that "you're just like your terrible mother" or "you're an extension of my feminine self"
4.) Toxic Intersections during transition - eg. transmasculine survivors often project our fathers' or brothers' toxic traits--and/or our abusers' harmful beliefs about masculinity--onto our own psyches and bodies ("I hate being a man because we have no empathy, like mom said" or "Now that I look like my dad, if I show anger I must be abusive").
Recovery and transition are incredibly difficult full-time jobs. Please don't erase our presence--learn from and about us so you can pass it on!
[CW - verbal abuse and misgendering]
I love your work, but I'm disappointed that you didn't mention trans* survivors. Gender is always (but especially in early childhood) socially and relationally co-constructed with the reflection of the Other.
Trans survivors thus face a funhouse worth of mirrors--
1.) The twisted misrecognition of narcissistic abusers projecting their toxic self-hate onto us;
2.) Their misgendering of us, when usually we're not even fully conscious of our transness yet, though there are often signs
3.) Toxic Interactions between #1 and #2 in childhood - e.g. the abuser tells a non binary kid they see as a "girl" that "you're just like your terrible mother" or "you're an extension of my feminine self"
4.) Toxic interactions b/t #1 and #2 during transition - eg. transmasculine survivors often project our fathers' or brothers' toxic traits--and/or our abusers' harmful beliefs about masculinity--onto our own psyches and bodies ("I hate being a man because we have no empathy, like mom said" or "Now that I look like my dad, if I show anger I must be abusive").
Recovery and transition are incredibly difficult full-time jobs. Please don't erase our presence--learn from and about us so you can pass it on!
Because trans are boring.
Britney Spears, Amy Winehouse, Kurt Cobain, jim Morrison, prince Harry , Meghan Markle, James Murdoch, James packer, Donald trumps brother Fred Trump jr, Kate Hudson, Goldie hawn. Lots of celebrities have scapegoat sibling Cate Blanchett Madonna Gordon Ramsay Josh Brolin Mariah Carey