Russian and Soviet Battleships - Seizing the Means of Propulsion!
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2023
- Today we are very lucky to talk with Steve Mclaughlin, an expert on Russian and Soviet warships, about a group of ships that might otherwise have had little accurate information about them published in the English speaking world.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
How effective and useful were searchlights in WW1, WW2? How often were they used?
I had some questions about dreadnoughts, mostly of the terminology and classification kind. (and some of the sillier kind)
What makes a warship qualify as a dreadnought? Like, what is the set of traits that makes one look at a ship and say, yep, it’s a dreadnought? Is it the all-big-guns main armament? Is it the all-or-nothing armour scheme? Is it machinery capability and top speed? Is it superfiring turrets? All of the above, or anything else?
Can armoured cruisers be considered pre-dreadnought battleships, and can all armoured cruisers be considered pre-dreadnought battleships? And most importantly, was HMS Hood a dreadnought?
Thanks in advance and much gratitude for all your work!
(my handle is Vaximillian without numbers, no idea why CZcams apended them and how to remove them)
Drach, could you do some videos on the lesser-known actions/battles in the Black Sea/Baltic Sea involving the Russians in WW1?
How did the Soviet Navy provide Battleship Novorossiysk (formally Italian Battleship Giulio Cesare) with 320 mm (12.6 in) ammunition? Seeing as the then current Soviet Battleships, the Ganguts, had 12 in (305 mm) guns. Could the 12.6 inch guns take the 12 inch ammo? Did the Soviets retool a shell manufactory, precure ammunition from Italy after WW2, or some other way? Thank You!
Why do many battleships carry two anchors on the starboard side and one on the port side?
Steve Mclaughlin: "I'd like you bring me your documents on Sovetsky Soyuz class battleships."
Russian Archivist: "OK, come back in two years."
Steve Mclaughlin: "Morning or afternoon?"
Russian Archivist: "It's two years, what difference does it make?"
Steve Mclaughlin: "Well, they're bringing me the documents on the Kamchatka in the morning."
Hmmmm, me thinks I have heard a story just like that before, except it was concerning the delivering of a car.
@@guyintenn Old GDR joke, that made it to west germany and was broadcast in a radio segment instituted by US/ FRG for that purpose: car was to be delivered in 12 years (which was the average), handyman would come that same day, afternoon. I think Reagan might have retold it once as well.
czcams.com/video/mN3z3eSVG7A/video.html
yep, first joke..
Reagan jokes are like the Soviet union: They never get old!
Steve Mclaughlin: "I'd like see your documents on Sovetsky Soyuz class battleships."
Russian Archivist: "OK, come back in 4 days."
Steve Mclaughlin: "HI documents just say ship built after 20 pages of redacted information?"
Russian Archivist: "i don't understand, what more information could want?"
Steve Mclaughlin: "Well, want to know what it looked like and other basic stuff."
Russian Archivist: "click"
Kuznetsov: WHERE IS THE PROPULSION!?
Beria: WHO IS THE PROPULSION!?
Stalin: WHY IS THE PROPULSION!?
The next Neil Breen movie: Twisted Battleship.
NO ONE: How is the propulsion?
Tsiolkovsky: let’s have rocket propulsion.
@@CAP198462Lysenko: let's use compressed water.
Prigozhin: SHOIGU, WHERE IS THE PROPULSION!?
Steve McLaughlin is my uncle! He is a gem and always has a joke up his sleeve. Glad that more people get a chance to hear him speak on battleships.
Love your dry humor, "seizing the means of propulsion" is right up there with "when hotels go to war" in describing French ships.
He's English, their humor is as dry as their Gin.
@@seankane8628 I dunno, Monty Python is far from dry, but both very English and very funny. As in the French knight saying (in a cheesy French accent) "Go away before I taunt you a second time."
The best so far was "you can take the sky from ..". Only folks who love the future as much as the past got it
French have most likely had the ministry of silly looking war ships?
@@genebohannon8820 Shiny.
I rate this 4 binoculars. Very interesting window on the Russian Navy.
I've broken bread with both of these men, last time Drach was in the US... Mr. Mclaughlin was truly a wonderful orator.
Drachinifel uploads, I click. Simple as.
Luv me ships
Luv me Drach
Nuthin’ to ´ate
Simple as.
Correct statement.
Facts👍
Snap!
Phone here, I taps.
The Italian battleship Giulio Cesare was turned over to the Soviet Union by Italy in 1948 as war reparations. Renamed Novorossiysk, she was assigned to the Black Sea Fleet. Sunk with 608 deaths following explosion in 1955; probably due to striking a leftover German mine.
Does this count as the last ww2 battleship sunk by enemy action?
Your best title yet i think Drach, ‘seizing the means of propulsion’ 😂😂😂
Yup!
Russian Battleships: We've only got a left screw and rudder.
In soviet russia ship does not move you,
You have to move ship
@@comentedonakeyboard He-he. Back in Soviet Russia (as well as Soviet Ukraine and Soviet Estonia and etc.) we did in fact move the ships every year. We still do. Otherwise ice will crush them all. It's a odd sight - driving through a snowy field, and then suddenly there are dozens of big and small ships wintering on the ground.
I'm curious how many of the ships on both sides at the Battle of Tsushima were British built or British designed.
Interesting question, never really thought about that. I know the French were a little influential in some of the ship designs, with Jeune ecole effecting the Japanese light ships, and having had a hand in designing some of the Russian battleships. Vickers was also rather proudly producing ships for the Japanese navy into the '30s (IJNS Kongo was on an advert of their's for a long while). Worth abitta research.
Russian had terrible french tumblehome disasters, and add to that the general incompetence of russians and the result was gonna be the same 100 times out of hundred.
I've read way too much about the Russo-Japanese War than any sane non-historian should. Japanese shipbuilding was certainly not up to building Pre-Dreadnought Battleships. Virtually all of theirs were built in Britain. They were very capable of building cruisers, destroyers and torpedo boats, most of those were homebuilt, if based on foreign (primarily British) design.
Befitting the Russian Navy of 1904-Present (really, anything since the Age of Ironclads, Russian shipbuilding was pretty shambolic. Most of their Pre-Dreadnought Battleships were built based off of French designs, although most were built in house. The cruisers and destroyers, like the battleships, were a hodgepodge of British, French, and even American designs. Then you get into the decrepit ironclads, converted yachts, etc. of the Third Pacific Squadron, and you're really running into a hodge-podge of designs.
The big difference, as with so much about that war (and subsequently, World War One), is that the Russian ships were a hodgepodge of designs that in some cases weren't really built to work with each other, whereas the Japanese were a lot more careful in their foreign procurement. That made a big, big difference in terms of the two fleets performance, both in the earlier battles, and especially at Tsushima.
@@stuartdollar9912 The Kongo was British built but her sister ships were built in Japanese shipyards, am I correct?
@@Ah01 General incompetence as a naval power. As a land power they basically beat the EU twice, once in 1812 and once in 1945. In fact, Western Europe has never beaten Russia in a land war. The Crimean War was more of a limited hybrid naval/land war. And I think you can consider Napoleon and Hitler proto-EU leaders, although obviously by coercion and not diplomatic agreement.
8:52 Vacuum Tubes, Russian made Vacuum Tubes are considered to be some of the highest quality and if you are an Audiophile then you better find a dealer who specializes in them because they are a world above most others with only Croatian and Serbian tubes coming close.
They were built for military use as Russia relied/had to rely on vacuum tubes much longer than the western countries due to some backlog in solid state tech. But true, very suitable for High-End audio
Also aren't vacuum tube impervious to a Nuclear EMP?
@@genebohannon8820 Sort of, but that wasn't a major factor in the continued use of them in military hardware, I believe there is a good article on the internet specifically about this topic and the relation of vacuum tubes to soviet military hardware
Because Russia is one of the few places where you can still get them mass produced. RCA tubes, for example, are high quality, but they quit making them decades ago and the company doesn't even exist except as a brand name now.
I build radios and amps and use Russian tubes in everything since they're available and reliable.
Steve Mclaughlin: I am researching the origins of some Russian 12 inch shells that are stored in a magazine at the Naval battery 30 in Sevastopol. These shells have english markings on them so they must have been produced under contract to American companies before 1918. From my research they were likely produced at Washington Steel and Ordinance that once existed 15 minutes from the White House.
4:47 I imagine that those expeditionary parties ran into Soviet holdouts who proceeded to have them secretly shipped off to labor camps for daring to try and pierce the veil of the Soviet Union.
As a veteran of the U.S. submarine and surface Navy, and a fan of 19th and 20th century military history, this channel is super interesting and a true intellectual gold mine!
Sincere thanks to everyone who makes this content possible.
San Francisco has a large Russian population - one of my best scores there was Tomitch's "Warships of the Imperial Russian Navy Vol I" in a dingy over-crowded bookstore...run by an aging hippy...he once chased me down the street right after I'd left...he'd just opened a box of books...and had an 1897 Imperial German Yearbook in it....he stuck it to me price-wise but it's a really great book to have, lots of color prints.
I always had an infatuation with Vladimir Yourkevitch, and his designs and the Gangut-class was a great battleship design, and makes me wonder if Imperial Russia did end up winning the Russian Civil War, how would Yourkevitch’s battleships designs evolve, and what would the Russian navy look like now? I mean this is the guy who design France’s SS Normandie, we can only imagine
@Drachinifel91cease
Torpedo boats spotted!
4:00 AM so please forgive me: I just thought - what does a russian naval architect have to do with the french SS-division (think it was called Karl-the-Great) :)
@@connycontainer9459 The ocean liner, mate...
@@The_Modeling_Underdog Yeah, I figured..
What a fantastic interview. Clearly a guest who really knows his stuff, in addition to good questions from the host (as expected).
@Drachinifel91 FAKOFF BOT!
Drach in collar and tie? Smartens up nice? Don't he?
wait until he shows up in tuxedo :D
My daughter thinks he scrubs up quite well!
Is it part of filter, just like curtain?
@@antonisauren8998 Looks like a filter, ye.
Maybe he can get a filter that puts him in knights armour. I added the "U" for my UK cuz'ints
This may as well yet be the best title you have created, even surpassing video 300.
However, propulsion and 10,000 faulty rivets still leaves much room to be desired onboard floating gulag! (Which is the really unfortunate side of Soviet naval industry)
Hi folks, I finished translating "Submariners" by Aleksey Novikov-Priboy (1923) and added some historical documents regarding AG-15 casualty off Lumparland the novella is loosely based on. I plan to translate few more submariner memoirs, depending on the feedback it may happen slower or faster. I'm eyeing “In a submarine, from the diaries of a last war veteran”, 1912 by Mikhail Mikhaylovich T’eder, “In a submarine in 1916”, 1917 by Vadim Alekseevich Poderni, maybe some journal entries by Vasiliy Alesandrovich Merkushov. Link to the book in the Kindle store is in my bio. Thank you.
Historians tend to look back at something and say how it is 'obviously' obsolete. But it is rarely obvious at the time. Sir Douglas Haig, for example never lost hope that a breakthrough could be exploited by cavalry.
In fairness, the impossibility of that _was_ obvious at the time to a lot of people who weren't Sir Douglas Haig.
@@ZGryphonHaig gets a bad rap. Cavalry aside, he learned and adapted throughout the war - unlike many other Generals.
Haig at least accepted tanks in combat after the first Somme debacle.
Well the cavalry did explote breakthroughs in the last year on Western Front. Had a painting of US horse cav taking a German Railgun at Ft Benning when I was there and I read of one late engagement where they were beating though to finally get the horse cav to do a breakout. You be right to counter the German Army was starting to fall apart at that point. The fun in that British Break out is the German Guns had been armed with anti tank rounds and the prior unbeatable tanks were very beatable, some thought tanks obsolete by year after the war. So the Infantry and Artillery had to cover the Tanks to break though to finally totally clear a path for the horse cav.
Horse Cavalry was quite effective on the Eastern Front in WWI. And again in WWII during the War the Germans created one horse cav corps regular army and one SS and the Russians created 5 Guard Horse Cavalry Armies.
And it was a mistake to disband the US horse before the Invasion Paton could have used one or two divisions of it for the break thru in France as they lacked the transport to get enough fuel over for the tank and motorized formations that replaced the horse cav. Same reason it worked on Eastern Front when it hard to fuel mechanized units the horse units could penetrate deep when things were wide open and they mostly fought dismounted although there were a fair number of successful cav charges in WWII when they caught the enemy unprepared. Which was true of the last US horse cav charge in the Philippines at start of the war which was successful vs the Japanese.
Humans have a tendency to get stuck in a mindset and reject any data which contradict it. It's difficult to break that hold, but always necessary and never completely impossible.
We get to see the big picture today, as compiled by others who looked at the finer details, but to a contemporary decision maker, only SOME of the finer details would have been visible.
12:42 u know when Drach has a special guest, he wears a tie , is that a Mrs Drach mandate :)
The Japanese Torpedo boat attack at 14:00 was a surprise.
Dear Drach, thank you for these excellent videos. They are very enjoyable to watch.
Yes, very relaxing as it is a counterbalance to the bullshit of today.
22:30 Helsinki is still called Helsingfors, it's just the name of the city in Swedish.
Great to see that you can make good use of my drawings and with your help even Mr Mclaughlin had received prints of them. Thank you for that Drach!! ( justice has been served 😂 )
Thanks for those. Very well done.
@@kennethdeanmiller7324 Thank you! It was fun, working with Drach. He had to explain all the details I could not make out on the old grainy photos, specially with the Slava.
The naval history is the 1st reason to watch this channel. No2 is drach is the best English speaker on utube.
This video highlights the various qualities of the speakers.
Finally the origin story of the kamchaka and continuation
It is a chapter to the book "And Then It Got Worse: A History of the Slavic People".
Yeppers.
My god. Drach’s wearing a tie!
What on earth is happening?
Is this a job interview?
No, he is just preparing for the Alien Invasion 😂
😂 My thoughts exactly! (Too much grog?)
Court date. Charged with making inappropriate advances to HMS Caroline.
The part about sending search parties just made me think of the library from metro 2033
This was fascinating. Thank you for having a great guest. You did a great job fostering the discussion as well, which is an underappreciated skill.
I must say you are a clever lad with your video titles. "Seizing the Means of Propulsion!"
Love it.
Tell the ship's oilers they "had ONE job!".
Deserves an upvote for title alone
When drachinifel and soviet history come together I can already guarantee its gonna be a good video
At 22:22, just a minor detail, Helsingfors is a Swedish translation of Helsinki. The town always had bilingual name, Helsinki in Finnish, Helsingfors in Swedish. Like Brussels/Bruxelles in Belgium.
Hmm… Drach is sporting his engineer togs today. 👍🏻
Hi! Adore your videos! Would you consider a profile of my grandfather and the ships he commanded? Richard Boyer Laning, Submarines Salmon and Sickleback, received Navy Silver Star award among many others, later, commanded the Seawolf, the second nuclear sub, and after that, support ship Nautilus...before that, in his younger years he was involved as an officer on the watch of the carrier Hornet in the Doltittle bombing of Tokyo aboard the carrier. He had a feud with Nimitz who held him down from Admiral...I have some family insight if you'd like to chat, but your research is fantastic, I'd be so pleased to see him featured! According to family stories aboard Salmon they were the most heavily damaged submarine to ever return to port without casualties. When I was younger, after he passed, I met some of his crew. He was adored as a Captain, known at the time, and reported by his lieutenants to me. Would love you to make a video, I can share family knowledge if you like, but there is plenty of public detail on him, but no CZcams content of your quality : (
Stalin: Not exactly the best boss to work for. Here for this kinda deep analysis.
Underrated comment, though.
The goben was seriously mauled and Turkey had little on the way of repair unless you count concrete
oh, the Face to this perfect englisch! It is SO easy to understand you as a german. THX so much for your content
Look out, Dracs back from Jury Duty 😅
I got called for jury duty once. Wore my Rooster Cogburn "a fair trial and a fine hanging" tshirt. Didn't get selected, not sure why. (Just joking, I may not be happy about jury duty if called but I wouldn't try to get out of it).
@@xlerb2286 I was just poking fun at the unseasonal budget suit ;)
Unexpected content, yet utterly riveting. Thank you!
A Russian naval historian said that the whole Navy thing never quite fit in the Soviet military doctrine and still doesn't fit in the Russian.
Few things better than watching an excellent vid by Drach!
Also good seeing you, Dr Clarke and Dan in Brisbane last week.
During the first weeks of the winter war the baltic fleet battleships Marat and Oktjabirskaja Revolutsija tried at two different occasions to challenge the finnish coastal fort at Saarenpää, Koivisto. Both times the russians shyed away when the fort got it`s 254mm battery fire close to hitting the ships.
Drach's wearing a tie! This guest must be super-eminent! Fascinating episode, really interesting
A fascinating and very informative video! Thank you, Drach and your guest for this light on a dark area.
This has been very enlightening. Thanks Steve & Drach!
Great interview and the book is a must have. Thanks all who brought this back so I could get my copy.
On many battleships of the early era, the turrets look fairly sleek and modern plunked upon an old-looking hull with a ramshackle cabin posing as a control center. The early designs seem piece-meal, as if they hadn't quite got their stuff together yet. An intermediate mish-mash, merely to accommodate budgets, as it were.
The more advanced ships required more machinery to be put inside the hull leaving less space to accommodate the increasing number of crew to man that machinery, therefore superstructures became larger and more advanced.
Tallships had no superstructure at all.
I purchased the book today. Thank you.
Goeben lost contact with the enemy, in a nebulous, heavily interpuncted, winding, sentence, that was suposed to be an order to change course, aiming to confuse the Russians by it's sheer Complexity😂
Thank you for these amazing materials! Who else would deliver such uncommon information?
I really wish I could get the book, but it's too pricey for me to justify buying it. Thanks for the interview!
A very enlightening video!
One thing that disappoints, is the amount of views compared to the amount of likes.
If you like the content leave a like, this is on average 1 in ten who watch and leave a like.
This content is very interesting and deserves more. Think about how much work goes into each video.
I agree, but im not always actively watching, as in 9/10 times im just listening to drach or gregs airplanes or rex's hangar while driving, so i cant always like a video
Problem is, if you like a vid then it goes into your like queue then when you're having a party & play your like play list of stacks of songs, something comes on about the Holocaust, about SLBMs and about missions to Venus.
I admit though I'm tidier than that, but its a good guess (as Ive missed some serious stuff from time to time - GIna G to Waffen SS in a heartbeat LOL).
@@emjackson2289that’s why I made a party playlist. The only serious subjects in that list are the ones I put there 😉
Why are you shilling for free? At least get something out of it.
@@ThatZenoGuy Sorry i dont understand can u expand on that please?
You have come a long way since when you used a robovoice on the early videos. Good video. Keep up the good work :)
Big ships really are an example of logistics over tactics, just to train a crew capable of effectively using them is a nightmare.
Excellent guest.
Thanks Drach
So, a political leader with a knack for killing those who reasoned with him interferes into technological process and messes up the whole thing. As a german this reminds me of someone, can't quite put my finger on it...
[Insert any head of state here]
"Birds if a feather" and all that
Thanks again for the great viseos.
Спасибо! Общее впечатление осталось "Галопом по Европам", но смотрелось на одном дыхании.
Если честно все очень поверхностно и многое упущено.
Hi mr McLaughlin, good to see you and hope you had a great time.
didn't think i'd ever grow up to be the kind of old man who's excited about naval historiography
Wow! Super interesting.
Being the old-ish romantic fool I am though I'd still have at least one Sverdlov-class cruiser in my fleet, just like I'd have never scrapped the USS Newport News
Really interesting stuff , I have long wondered just how Russia ended up with such a mismatched fleet.
( 16:24 ) If only the Russians had kept hold of that lesson about "fires on-board" up till these modern times! lol 😉
Thank you for this interview and video, Drachinifel
32:00 I believe that the german aircraft designs might have been motivated in a similar fashion, there is a lot of rather daring concepts that were having no chance to be realised before the war was over, but to remain valuable enough to be kept constructing you had to present something interesting.
He writes about Russian/soviet battleships and gives interviews from a Russian submarine
Great video
What is that great music you use for the overture to the Rum Ration Video Collection? It fits the line of battle images perfectly. Stunningly.
I would argue that the Soviet Navy never really stopped capital ship construction, heavily armed missile cruisers were a mainstay of the Soviet Navy long before Kirov. The Slava class, Kara class and Kresta classes were also designed to kill aircraft carriers and out muscle any destroyer, frigate or even cruiser out there.
The Project 1134B Kara-class and Project 1134A Kresta-II-class are Large Anti-submarine Ships (BPKs), they had very little anti-ship capability beyond guns and using their SAMs in an anti-surface role. Only when the improved URPK-5 Rastrub variant of the SS-N-14 entered service from the mid 1970s onwards did they receive any extra anti-ship capability beyond that of comparable Western Warships. It should be pointed out that these ships were all enlarged descendants of Destroyers, their main US equivalents would probably be Frigates (DL/DLG/DLGN), although they were more specialised anti-air warfare Fast Task Force escorts, rather than the anti-submarine specialised BPKs. The early specialised anti-ship cruise missile carriers the project 58 Kynda-class and Project 1134 Kresta-I-classes were not built in large numbers, with only eight ships total (four ships per class) being built compared to the ten Kresta-IIs and seven Karas.
Slava very slightly post-dates Kirov, and is basically a smaller, cheaper Gas-Turbine propelled alternative.
🎵United forever in friendship and labour,
Our mighty republics will ever endure.🎵
Melodie composed by comrade Registan, right?
Yep. And then it got worse!
I enjoyed the episode and bought a paperback copy
LOL. i just caught on to the subtitle now ... "Russia, seizing the means of Propulsion" :D .
That title's great
Amusing title but this was a great listen on how Russian or Soviet battleshipd came about
Mistook some ad copy for the start of the comments-
"Team NOS is back for round 2 of the endurance!"
Best title ever, thanks for the laugh :D
Very interesting
Drach with a tie? So snazzy! 😁
Wow. Drache has a tie on! Its like hes meeting Charles to be knighted! Give him some of your hard tack.
Best Title Ever!
I'd love to see you narrate the book for Audible or other
Now we need a Kirov video, just because the eye roll.
I dont see a pinned comment so ill just leave this hear.
Drach i have a topic id like you to talk about, the fuses on naval shells, how do they work and whats the process to instal them?
I remember you said they could set timers and that you mentioned some ships the shell hoist could set the timer, was someone in the lift with the shell? Was there a mechanical system to set and instal them?
I really want the book, is it available in e-book form?
What did they have in coastal patrol and riverine boats/ships?
Project 206 and Tarantul, SKR-7...
You know, we all like to criticize the performance of the Russian and Soviet navy, even all the way to today. And there’s no questioning they have their problems, but it is really remarkable how a nation that had little to no industrial capacity or skilled labour at the turn of the century could become what they had by the Cold War. I know it’s beyond the scope of the channel, but look at the technological marvels that they were able to create. Like the alfa class submarine for example. The nation that struggled to make a battleship in the 1890s created a titanium hulled, Liquid Metal reactor powered submarine capable of speeds of 44 knots submerged. The US at the time thought it impossible to make a full sized submarine out of titanium until the CIA got metal filings from the ship yard.
So yes, you can criticize the failings of the Russian navy, but you also have to give them credit where credit is due. To go from humble beginnings to a budding naval superpower in the span on 50 years is simply remarkable.
True, but you can say the same for Japan. Japan had no factories or industrialization, no experience in modern warfare or technology at all until the 1870s. Laid down the first dreadnought (although it was not launched until after the HMS Dreadnought, partially due to Britain delaying shipping the guns over), shortly after Tsushima in 1905. Beat Russia, a country that had participated and observed every major war in the past 100 years.
Also worth remembering their economy was growing steadily in the pre-WW1 era, Germany was reportedly afraid of what the Russian industrial capability would be like if they didn't smack them down around WW1. If not for the Civil War and the damage it caused imagine the growth they coulda had. Also, you know, insane dictators hobbling and threatening them every now and then (although the threats may have helped?).
oh wow drach is wearing a tie today! lookin right spiffy sir!
Armament, united can never be divided.
First time I've seen Drach in a tie on this channel. Getting more formal?
Is an Ekronoplan a plane that sinks or a ship that flies?
Soviet battleships are highly underrated and were maybe the best!
One never hears Drach giggle as much, ever, except when the Soviet Navy comes up....
Hey, Drach- CHERVONA UKRAINA-....
Drach- 😂
See ?....
🚬😎👍
Drach in a tie!