A Look Back At: KOTOR 2 (In-Depth Commentary/Analysis)
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 10. 2016
- An in-depth review and analysis done on Kotor 2, my favorite Star Wars games of all time. This game (with new steam support, and widescreen support) cost $9.99. PLEASE buy it, it will be one of the best purchases you have ever made (and I don't get a dime for saying this).
store.steampowered.com/app/208...
Follow my twitter. www.twitter/nerdslayerg
For discussions on this game, check out places like Obsidians forums, the kotor reddit /r/kotor, and Deadly Stream boards.
Credit to Get Daved for footage of the Female Canon Exile. Feel free to watch his playthroughs if you don't want to play the game yourself!
/ @getdaved
This is the interview with Chris Avellone I referenced.
www.lightspeedmagazine.com/non...
Here is the TSL Restoration Mod and M4/78 Mod. Credit to the team at Deadly Stream who made this amazing mod.
deadlystream.com/forum/files/f...
deadlystream.com/forum/files/f...
Credit to Obsidian ENT who made this beautiful game.
www.obsidian.net/ - Hry
The Mandalorian Wars were just as Kreia called them: a cover-up for another war, one of conversion. If you think about it, the Clone Wars repeated the Mandalorian Wars again.
I already realized that there were two mandolorian wars, if you think about it, but holy shit I didn't even realize that they were also scams for a more sinister plot. Oh my god, how are KOTOR 1 and 2 this fucking good, yet also seem criminally undderated? People just talk about how the original trilogy is the best of star wars, yet this fire, this absolute butter makes all the movies look generic and boring as all hell; except for Revenge of The Sith
@@darthnihilus7951 Say what you will about the Prequels, but they were all better than most of what Disney is doing with Star Wars. The Prequels had a well-thought-out plot attached to them, even if the execution wasn't perfect up until Revenge of the Sith.
@@99thJediWarrior uh, I actually love the prequels, especially Revenge of the Sith, I just think that Kotor is the best thing that has ever come out from Star Wars
@@darthnihilus7951 Another person who likes the prequels! :)
You could even call the clone wars the second mandalorian wars seeing as the clones are clones of a mandalorian
I've always waited for a moment when HK-47 kills someone then says:
[Obvious Lie] Master, I didn't do this!
XD
Creelien Does he actually say that in any of the kotor games? XD
LOL that would be fucking amazing. XD
I think he said something similar to that at some point.
I'm quite sure that there is no game or film within the Star Wars franchise that quite gets what the force actually is like Kotor II.
Fuck what George Lucas wanted - it was outdated by the time this game came along. Because George Lucas ISN'T a fucking hack who ruined the prequels. This game injected much needed nuance to the force - something the FIRST game had dabbled with, without committing to, it is an infinitely superior concept of 'The Force' (keep in mind KOTOR 2 is way more vague than people remember, for some reason, on this topic), it HAD to be because the outdated concept wouldn't have lent itself to a good, enriching and innovative video game experience.
It NEEDED the nuance, and if that rubs you the wrong way, then keep in mind that the game is actually more vague about this than one might think. People take what Kreia said and twist it to be empirical - as if she's just explaining how the world really works, scientifically - when in fact she's only talking about her mindset, the way SHE views the galaxy, and the force, etc. The game takes the normative approach, but only through the virtue of a character that is inherently skewed and flawed and unreliable and THAT is who informs us of these things - someone we increasingly learn NOT to trust as the narrative develops, and who we likely didn't much trust to begin with. Therefore, the Force by the end of the game is whatever the players wish it to be - which is what ought to be the FORCE in its totality of explanation - up to interpretation.
Don't know why you folks are so keen to follow the word of the fuckface that gave us "midi-chlorians" - I'll take the KOTOR alternative, thank you very much.
Thank you fuzzy. Its refreshing to see some less narrow minded star wars fans. There is validity in Starwars being portrayed with a now cartoon'esk take on the force/good and evil, That is the original design Gorge Lucas made. However I think the only reason That had any success was as you said, The concept, While compelling at the time, it is very outdated now. Some just don't want to ever see things changed for any reason. Normally a byproduct of old age, You start to realize that the world is passing you by, For better or for worse. This sentiment, Is very understandably controlling.
I just don't understand why people would fight tooth and nail to adhere to George Lucas' original interpretation of the force, when by the time of the prequels he himself was altering this conception. I mean, at some level of the creative process he would've had to be informed of the KOTOR games and what they were trying to do - and on some level sign off on that interpretation - and at the end of the day that's what it is, an interpretation that - unlike the prequels and the midi-chlorians and all of that malarkey - never empirically says "this is The Force, this is the way this universe works." I just don't understand the people who are arguing on the side of midi-chlorians and arguing on the side of an inferior, more narrowed, conceptualization. What's the point, y'know? At the end of the day, there is no be-all-end-all, 'canon' as a concept for star wars is laughable. Disney only decides what's 'canon' when there is some financial gain involved in it so it's very easy for myself to just disregard what they say entirely. At the end of the day my personal headcanon is much more interesting and unlike a lot of people I'm not about to say that it's 'definitive' - just my personal interpretation.
Fuzzy Dunlop Screw what Lucas said? The man mad Star Wars haha. And imo he didn’t ruined the prequels. Yes there were bad parts and bad cgi but there also tons of new and cool things, and so much more amazing things added to the Star Wars universe, unlike the sequels.
Lucas didn't entirely made Star Wars tho, if you look at the trivia for the making off of the Original trilogy you'll see that nothing can get a more honest description of "cooperative work" than that. George wrote a 14 page script for the movie at first, to see if he could sell the story to anyone. When he did, everyone working on him on the movie had something to say, to add, to remove. Even the actor of old Obi Wan that is sort of known for his not so biggest affection towards Stat Wars, helped on the script. Empire Strikes back is even more evident on that, as even the way Lightsaber duels happened were changed, despite Lucas's displease on that happening; for him, to choreography a more authentic sword battle was more important than the way the new Director used the lightsaber duels more related to the feelings of the characters (Luke gets angry, he swings the lightsaber angrily, he feels scared, he becomes defensive, Darth Vader moves rather cocky, displaying how superior his skills are).
To think that George has complete viability as to what the franchise is simply because he is credited as such...well, that's dumb.
Brianna/Handmaiden acts as a link to Atris. Her confrontation with Atris also adds to Atris's obsession with the Exile. You can practically feel the jealousy in her words as she electrocutes her.
Yeah, that's why I think she's a much better character than Disciple...but you don't get her if you play female (without mods).
Atris is a very deep character when we consider the fact that she doesn't have a lot of screen time. She hated the Exile, but also loved her. She was envious of the Exile's uncompromising principles, but also admired her for them. She despised everything the Exile stood for, but was also doubtful of the validity her own choices, and couldn't stand the fact that the Exile was so sure of her own. If the Exile is male, it's quite clear that Atris desires him, loves him, but hates herself for feeling so. She even kept the Exile's sabre. There's a lot of contradictions to Atris' character because she's a very broken person, and it's not hard to feel sorry for her but also hate her for her actions. She embodies a lot of the themes present in the story. That's damn good writing.
Also on an unrelated note: The reason why Sion originally found out about the Exile was not due to Kreia manipulating the situation, in fact, she was also searching for her with the Ebon Hawk (because Kreia wanted to understand why the Exile had given up the Force), but because Atris leaked information about the Exile from to bait the Sith into showing themselves, which in turn gave the Sith a scent and pattern to follow. That's why Kreia says "...the Sith believe you to be a Jedi Knight, and that's all that matters." - they never would found the Exile had Atris not instigated her return into Republic space.
Kotor II has a great atmosphere, complex themes, great dialogue, interesting choices, fantastic characters and far, far superior world building to any Star Wars content out there. I'm gladdened beyond words that the popular opinion has shifted to Kotor II being the best Star Wars game out there (especially with TSLRCM - look it up). Five, ten years ago people thought Kotor I was better but that's simply not true, and never has been, even with the gimped vanilla version.
That being said: GO DOWNLOAD TSLRCM! You'll get so much more from Kotor II! It restores a _ton_ of cut content and it does it *well*!
nerdSlayer The story is straight up just better if you play as a Male it's clear that Attris is/was in love with the exile and felt betrayed by him
LegendofLegaia929 brianna kae yusanis is an important character if you want a badass jedi guardian apprentice..you can also train atton and mira and bao dur...
What I loved so much about KOTOR 2 was the atmosphere. Parts of the game felt like a horror/ thriller experience. You often explore old, abandoned ruins while knowing your character is being hunted. It gives a great sense of foreboding. Also Kreia
even the first area with that mining station is like thriller/horror movie when you try to figure out what happend there.
Ikr? We have the same taste captain.
Arren Kae is about billion times more interesting than Ma-Rey Suuuuuuue! Will NEVER forget the lord of betrayal !
Peragus was my favorite part of the whole game, precisely because of that thriller/horror feel. You're (mostly) alone, trying to solve a murder mystery and find a way off the station.
@@commanderarielleshepard4920 Funny, I hated Paragus because it felt so empty and cold. I hated korriban too because of that haha. I never finished the game as a sith by the way because it felt so damn evil haha.
Instead I loved the citadel station and Onderon. But you are right, it really felt like a horror game sometimes. As a child I was really scared sometimes. I started with Dxun and I felt so damn good when I finally found all lightsaber parts to get some hope and confidence from the light of my new lightsaber to battle the fear haha.
Where's the respect for mah man Mandalore?
DuncanDeez dayuuum n shieet
Clan ORDO STILL LIVES !
Now I know where Mr.Canderous Ordo went lol
you are wrong about the disciple, if you pay any attention at all. he gives you a lot of insight into the Jedi civil war and how it dulled the the public opinion of Jedi, until many believed them no better than the Sith, add to that he is the one to discover the echo that emanates from malachor V, but kreia temporarily wipes his mind of his discovery, the disciple, is also the one who TELLS you who all but one of revans masters were, skipping kreia because she is manipulating the disciples mind. I rest my case
Agreed. He also doesn't give credit to the other characters either. Visas provides perspective on being a non-schizophrenic Sith. Hanharr has a great lesson of strength to teach the Exile. etc. I still liked his review though.
wingsrope If you reject Hanharr's lesson , and choose to draw strength from yourself, you get plus 2 wisdom. Even then you're still right. I just thought this was an interesting fact.
Daniel Thompson because they are no better than the sith
Brianna should exist in both playthroughs, as a member of the party because of Atris. Her storyline is really compelling to me.
i'd love to see games when Revan first starts his journey and takes on the Mandalorians
Play Kotor 1 mod "Brotherhood of shadow".
Jedi Exile(Chris Avellone):
An awesome AVATAR character, which is literally represented as "A wound in the Force"; In all Obsidian Entertainment materials, as official arts, the Jedi Exile was always a male character.
Meetra Surik(Drew Karpys):
Boring generic female Jedi character of the "Light Side Path", who is literally represented as a personal she-Sidekick of the he-Revan from Drew's BioWare cannon.
It always amazes me how Drew Karpy was able to make such a bullshit novel, about his own character Revan, in which he even added Chris's Jedi Exile, making him an esteriotypic Robin (but chick) and Revan a Jedi Batman or something like that!
His terrible representation of Revan in that novel really triggered me too, but what the Karpys one did to the Jedi Exile in that damn novel was simply unforgivable.
I always preferred Chris Avellone's version. I think it should be up to the player to decide who the Jedi Exile is.
Fred Reindl yeah I disagree with that
Funny, I never read these but from the art it was obvious male was the canon exile, and that’s how I always play it.
I need another KOTOR story, or a star wars rpg similar to this one. skill / affinity trees, item customization, immersive long term game play and most importantly - offline. a Mass Effect scale KOTOR would fill a long empty gap in my gaming love life. Thanks for the in-depth video.
Ohlong Johnson if your wanting the gamplay your looking for dungeon and dragon games. Like pillars of eternity.
Too bad you will never get that now that Disney bought Star Wars.
Try SWTOR dude, it's pretty good for an RPG.
It's not trash, and it didn't ruin Revan to the point of no return, if they wanted or TRIED to, they could definetly bring him back to whatever you think is good. And I was recommending SWTOR because that's what I've played. And if I played the things you dude, maybe I'd see it differently than what I see.
Swtor has decent stories and options for each class but the MMo setting and mechanics still make it a lot less immersive than Kotor 1 and 2 as a RPG.
Great review. 10 years ago everybody looked weird at me when I said that KOTOR 2 was superior to any other Star Wars story. I'm glad to find so many reviews nowadays that look back at the game and appreciate its complexity and brilliant writing.
NO MENTION OF T3. *TRIGGERED*
or Mandalore.
idk how you thought Visas or Brianna were boring characters.
Visas is just mumbling nonsense pretty much all the time. Her character was non-existent, she served solely as a purpose to spew some quasi-philosophical nonsense. If anything, I don't get how the fuck can you even like her?
I personally liked Brianna though.
Her story (entire planet destroyed) and her current existence are really sad and she surrenders first to Nihilus and then to you, and she gets to feel mercy and compassion from the Exile for a first time after a while (off the top of my head btw, last time I played this was ages ago), I thought this was pretty interesting.
Single Beretta yes well for Leia in the movies, it's even worse with the destruction of Alderaan. For every Alderrinian it was bad. Your point?
my point is that she is the last of a kind (not just a human from one planet that got destroyed) therefore her story is not boring, I thought I made that obvious
who is Briana?
The first time I played this game, I forever was hooked. To me it was actually haunting. Like one of those feelings that stay with you, and haunts you. That is true nerdiness I believe. It almost transcends me to a dark state of mind, wishing I was a part of this in reality.
I played this game over 10 years ago, I remember bits and pieces but the story didn't really stick with me as much as the more nerdy of our culture it seems. I remember enjoying the game more than KOTOR 1 but it was just another RPG in a long line of RPG's I played growing up.
same for me. I almost played through in one time barely sleeping and eating. It was like being in another dimension
Vincent Kyle That's because this game is cursed. It actually has a curse place upon it to be the greatest Star Wars story ever, but because of the curse a few things suffered.
First of all, because of the curse there's no more good and evil in the game. Second of all, the game could never be completed because of the curse. (We saw this not only because of the unfinished content, but also it failed to be ported to Android). Third of all, all future star wars games / movies were destined to be shit after star wars kotor 2. In fact, Lucas arts was even sold to disney, a company full of evil sorcerers who base their operations in a black and wicked land known as the "Magic Kingdom". The main objective and desire is for the Disney Sorcerers is of course the souls of the little ones, the little children, that's their ultimate goal. Luckily though because of SW KOTOR 2 all their films they pump out are continual shit, no matter how much money they pour into their projects.
Of course naturally they've completely misunderestimated this game, they know nothing of the Star Wars curse that KOTOR 2 placed upon the franchise or why their Star Wars projects eat so much ass.
So all you people talking about the dream state this game put you in, well now you known that it is because of the great curse. Somebody had a certain pact with a certain devil to create this game, it came at a terrible price . . .
TM3000 lml what are you even saying hahaha
Same here...the story was so impressive and u got a completely different experience every time.
to this day i still think kotor 2 is better than kotor 1 in terms of story.
its better in every way possible.
Ninvus Gaming it's better I definitely agree but I still really enjoyed kotor 1 both I hold dear you know
KOTOR I gave me a real shock when I first played it; to me, it was the best writing I have ever seen in a video game since The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (which I have played many times since an early age). However, after playing KOTOR II, I quickly forgot about the first game and played the second one more often. I feel the excellent writing and more compelling story and atmosphere resonates with me to this day.
i completely agree
Same here and I also like meetra way better than revan
kotor canon states that revan returned to his first and now final teacher to learn how to leave the jedi forever, and kreia stated as fact that she was that master who taught him how to do so, so there you have it, kreia is arren kae
In this day and age, there's hardly any projects that have as much love and ambition put into them as Obsidian put in for KOTOR II and New Vegas. They can only be faulted for putting in too many intricate gameplay mechanics, fleshed-out characterization, and extensive world-building for them to meet their deadlines. Truly passionate game makers.
I dont want to go through kotor2 again, it was painful exp. I finished mass effect2 twice or thrice cause it feels i achieve something or feels reward. Kotor2 is cursed game.
I don't understand why people care what is officially considered "canon". The most that would mean is that we won't get a KotOR or Shadows of the Empire Disney movie, but why would I want that? I've already played those games, I know those stories, I don't need them to be retold to me. They're fictional stories, you can just take the parts you like and ignore the ones you don't and make that your own personal canon.
I know right? I don't get it either, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Old Republic games. I guess I can sorta understand decanonizing the more current stuff that goes with the Skywalker saga, but tales of events that took place thousands of years before Anakin was even born? Who cares if it's canon or not, it probably wouldn't matter more than a brief mention, not even a cameo. So these Old Republic games can be canon or not canon for all I care, because either way it doesn't change a thing. People lost their shit when The Clone Wars included Darth Bane like 'omg guys he's canon!'. No, not really. The only thing that is canon is what the scene from the show has shown. The entire books are still part of Legends.
Thats the kind of thinking that ruined the continuity.
Because everything that comes out from now can only play in the canon. So for example we can never get a Kotor 3 now, because officially Kotor 1 and 2 never happened. We can never get a Jedi Knight 4 because Jedi Knight 1-3 never happened. Kyle Katarn, Revan, the Exile and so on don't exist. So no story in future can ever do anything with them. And do you really think that Rey is so much better that it makes that trade worth it?
KOTOR 2 was so buggy, but the way it deconstructs the morality of Star Wars makes it an engaging experience. You also get the Jedi version ofAyn Rand.
Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb - Dark Helmet, Spaceballs :)
Keep shooting assholes!
You'll never get away with this, Black Helmet Man! You are bad! You are bad and we are good! Your badness will be the end you and our goodness will be our triumph! Bad is bad! Good is good! Bad bad good bad! Good good bad good.. Bad. Good. - Princess Bunhead, Thumb Wars
I will always say KOTOR is canon over the actual Starwars series. Kreia continues to blow my mind.
Artsho95 I maintain that KOTOR is canon because revan appeared in rebels I think
Mark Maben when?
Artsho95 well in the clone wars Season 3, episode 10. Saesee tiin makes passing mention to the old Republic. And the clone wars is canon.
And Rebels had malachor. And a Sith temple on Malachor with a voice speaking through a Sith holocron that sounded like Kreia's voice.
It's canon now.
Bao-Dur is anything but forgettable: "Your command echoes still, General. And I obey, as I did at Malachor."
yesss!!!!!
MalachOoorrr...
I remember seeing a macro of a quote from Malak and Scion--it was painfully obvious that Obsidian had a much better writing staff. It's a shame that LucasArts forced them to rush the development. (I'm pretty sure the Disciple was going to have a much more fleshed out character and was one part that was cut from the game).
Also, why no mention of Mandalore? I wouldn't call Kotor 2 perfect but I wholeheartingly agree it has the best atmosphere in any Star Wars visual media.
I remember in 2007-8 when I was painstakingly desperate for a Kotor 3. Where I was obsessed finding out any information about it. I had purchased Kotor II first and I actually appreciate that I played this game first since it doesn't really spoil anything from the first game and has such great character development and plot.
Once BioWare was bought out by EA, I realized how commercial things were going to get. I remember in a famous interview for the announcement of the old republic mmo, one of the devs claiming it was "Kotor 3, 4, 5 and so on". I even ended up boycotting Mass Effect until I gave in and bought it. Fully enjoyed it and got immersed in that world because of how reminiscent is was to Kotor. At the time I was a young adolescent with an Xbox 360; so there weren't too many modern RPGs that I was interested in. Mostly Oblivion, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, etc... But I really missed the turn based combat and greater attention to story. I remember emailing Game Informer around 2008 asking if they would talk about Kotor 3 and sure enough (I'm guessing along with other people asking at the time) they did a very short paragraph begging the question if Bioware was working on it. I think it's so sad they were in development to make it but had to scrap it.
I'm not sure if in the grand scheme of things that it was good. There was a possibility that Bioware wouldn't exist if EA didn't come in and buy them out. With the Force Awakens and the Disney buyout I am a bit skeptical with what will become of this beloved IP in the hands of corporate overlords whipping the more creative people to adhere to the sensibilities of "casual" gamers.
There is a lot of talk of a supposed Kotor remake or a Netflix series set during the Madalorian Wars/Darth Revan timeline. Of course so far they are just rumors. What was figured out though is that the Battlefront Rogue One DLC is to blame for any delays or development of a Star Wars single player RPG.
EA and Disney are scary to me. I don't have faith they will respect the longstanding love fans have of the series. But I am not going to dismiss anything outright until I see it for myself.
I think you are right about the first bit. I frankly think there's no way they created Disciple and thought "yep, he's finished". Also I don't want to get all sappy myself, but I really think it's the end of Bioware as we knew it. Luckily Obsidian is still out there making games though, I hope they don't get picked up by a big company either.
I will be reviewing Tyranny for example, an upcoming Obsidian title. Chris Avellone might not be apart of them anymore, but they still have plenty of good writers. I think there's still hope for a fleshed out Star Wars RPG, I just don't see it being as dark as Kotor 2 was. I will be doing a Kotor 1 vs 2 video this week, curious what peoples opinions on that will be. Thanks for the reply.
I count rushing KOTOR II out as one of the most tragic decisions in gaming history ever. The writing of the game, the depth, the motives you can find in it, the layers of meaning. Few books or movies can match that even. That fame had potential to be one of the best games ever created, to redifine standards of gamemaking really.
KOTOR II was to Star Wars universe what Miller's Dark Knight was to Batman long time ago. Transforming fairly simple good vs. evil story to something more more meaningful and much less black and white...
To this day I am fascinated by it and keep revisiting topics it adresses and stories it tells...
I'm really tired of seeing people saying Bioware committed some great sin, or even that they "rushed" Obsidian to finish the game. Have you ever noticed how no developer ever works with Obsidian twice? Bioware/LucasArts didn't rush them, Obsidian was offered the job to create a sequel using the existing engine and assets within one year. One. Year. If they couldn't develop their product in that time, they shouldn't have taken the job. Yet they did. Obsidian failed to set realistic goals, a responsibility which falls on every single developer. "Oh we'd love to add X and Y and Z to our game, we just didn't have the time and money!" They were hired and paid to do a job within one year, then when the year was up acted like it was somehow LucasArts fault that they didn't get to finish their work. They've done this with Fallout as well. They've burned bridges all across the industry, that's why they had to go to crowdsourcing for their latest series.
I didn't know that they promised to deliver the product within a year. But in reality when you have a creative team working on a game, limiting the time to develop it within a year is a pipe-dream. Especially when you are talking about a single player RPG that Obsidian wants to inspire people with along with all the bells and whistles.
So many games are delayed these days in the justice of not releasing a half finished product. Even LucasArts having an agreement with Obsidian to produce a game of the first Kotor's scope within one year is making a chicken out of a feather. And I'm assuming Bioware probably didn't make Kotor in the same time.
Now, I do agree that Obsidian should be respectful considering they are given this opportunity to create titles like Kotor 2 and New Vegas with assets from BioWare and Bethesda respectively. That should probably cut some of the time of development but still not to a mere year. The same issues can be seen in both of these titles and perhaps it is having to use another's developer's engine as well as being under the heel of a publisher or third party (Like LucasArts). In New Vegas case, the issues are not as glaring as the IP was Obsidian's to begin with--so I'm guessing it was easier to make that game coming from the experience of Kotor 2.
I think you might be overestimating how much Obsidian worked with conjunction with other dev teams as I'm sure at the time BioWare was working hard on their own projects just as Bethesda was probably working on Skyrim and producing other Titles as well.
I'm straight up going to assume Obsidian didn't like the feeling of using another's developer's engine to make the game they wanted to achieve.
Perhaps I'm giving them too much credit, but what other sort of company has this réport of being able to create and license a sequel to a successful game without having to buy the IP or be a subsidiary of the company that owns it.
I mean I can only imagine the complications that comes with having to work around LucasArts and an engine you have no experience in programming with and whatnot. I'm sure it also led them to compromise with the more corporate types who only care about video games being on the shelves in a particular quarter and could care less if the game is unfinished. It's clear Obsidian went into making these games from a creative standpoint but had the weight of someone making sure they came out with the game within a reasonable time. And to reiterate a year is simply not enough for a small studio like Obsidian to produce a video game. The process should be much longer if you want the entire product.
In today's gaming world we live in a wonderland where games can be released early and be continuously patched. This leads to obvious problems of course but can work in certain game's favor such as Overwatch or Ark (Online?)
Anyway, I think we should consider that Obsidian was tired of the red tape of working with other developers and publishers and realized they could get their own funding while creating their video games on their own terms.
You are probably more knowledgable considering you brought this to our attention. I think any game developer that would cut content from their game in order to release a game at a certain time are doing a disservice to their own product. It will be painfully obvious to the people who play it and will cause the game to not stand the test of time. Just for example: Bethesda cutting a lot of Skyrim just to release it on 11-11-11, while knowing the replay-ability of their game will suffer and mostly be from the modding community releasing more content that Bethesda could not do on their own.
That's why I truly despise the corporate aspect of deadlines for video games. In the end taking an extra year or so to get it truly right will only bolster your appeal to hardcore fans and casual gamers alike. And I fully understand they can't spend so much time fucking around because at the end of the day a product does need to be released at some point. But so many people think these days by just adding more people to the development team (or movie crews) that they can create the finished product in less time. That's one of the reasons the Hobbit films were somewhat of a failure. The people producing the movie wanted the product they were paying for to come out sooner. Just throwing money at the problem couldn't speed up the creative process of the film and in the end botches the entire process--creating a vapid, rushed out final product. And it is simple as that.
You might say you are tired of people sympathizing with Obsidian for being forced to release the game on the time they promised, but I will never have sympathy for producers and publishers that push the creative people to work quicker just to have the finished product sooner.
You could have saved us both a lot of time and just said "yes, I'm biased for Obsidian and will side with them regardless," because that's the impression your post gave off. Not to be inflammatory, but you're showing a lot of ignorance on the subject yourself. Kotor2 does use the same engine and assets. Furthermore, LucasArts was trying to release the games in time with the prequel series hype and popularity, maximizing profits. If Obsidian couldn't release a full game within their allotted time, they shouldn't have signed on for the job and accepted payment, it's as simple as that. Then to shuck responsibility and throw it back on the people who threw them a bone hiring them in the first place? Not only is that disrespectful, it shows a lack of character on part of Obsidian.
You've fallen into the blind hype dream that so many people do, just look at No Man's Sky and how people drool over all the big ideas that game was supposed to have. Big ideas may sound good but what matters is the ability to pull them off, which Obsidian clearly can't. It's a fundamental responsibility of developers to make the best with the money and time that they have. You don't get an infinite budget or infinite production cycle, you have to learn how to manage your time and money. You seem to think a year isn't enough time to pump the game out. Let me remind you that Majora's Mask was made in a single year, using the assets and engine of Ocarina of Time.
You give Obsidian entirely too much credit. They're a game studio that lives for being handed the scraps of other, better, developers. They consistently fail to manage their time and money correctly, fail to accomplish the job they're paid to do, and fail to accept the responsibility of the failure. This is why they never get hired to work with the same developer twice, and, like I said, why they had to use kickstarter to fund their next game, because no other developers would find them. Pillars of Eternity was a great game, but it took several expansions to get all of the content made and released. I'm waiting for the documentary to be released to we can hear them blame fans for not having all of their work done. Maybe then people will stop worshiping them and start paying attention.
Kotor 1 & 2 will always first and foremost be the only Star Wars canon I care to recognize. Didn't care much for the movies, if it wasn't for the old republic era games (kotor1,kotor2,swtor) I wouldn't be much of a fan of star wars.
Lann I agree.
Well it’s just so much more interesting. Between the story, characters, and explanations you’ll never get in a film-even the paradigm it is set in-it is all so much better. You can commiserate with Revan and the Exile in ways you can’t with the mainstream Star Wars TM characters.
Lann I love the Star Wars franchise in general but The Old Republic Era(KOTOR, KOTOR II, SWTOR) is the best thing to come out of the franchise.
And jedi academy which was very good ...also possibly Outcast but that story was borderline cheesefest i think. Force infusion was bullshit.
Why are you so "hush hush" on spoilers in an In-Depth Analysis? From my perspective it would hinder people, who aren't familiar with the content you're analyzing, from clearly understanding the points you're trying to make as there's always a gap knowledge. It also makes it easier for people to misunderstand or misinterpret what you're talking about. Also, later on you introduce spoilers anyways so why not just have a spoiler warning for those who haven't played the series just yet? It really hurts your analysis when you have to keep mentioning spoilers with every topic you bring up later in the video.
Finally, I feel the title doesn't necessarily fall under a general in-depth analysis; You only talk about the story aspects of the game, but it's not clear that that's the case. Maybe it was wrong of me to do so, but I went into this expecting an analysis of the various game mechanics and features, and how they all inter-played together. Despite that, it feels like you're summarizing a lot for an in-depth analysis, which could be due to the reason above.
Anyways, thankyu for the video~
That is kind of funny
WHOA BAO DUR IS BORING? Bruh, have u heard his voice? Literally the way he talks makes me actually like his character.
For real! I loved his devotion to the exile.
He is also the only companion that knows you can read his thoughts, other than Atton!
I gotta say I absolutely loved Atton better than any other character in the SW lore. He truly felt like a best friend on your journey. He was funny. He was kind. He was aggressive when he needed to be. He felt like a nice mix of Han Solo and Anakin to me. I dunno, to me Atton is one of the main reasons I always went back to the game. Just to hang with the guy and discover things I didn't before such as making him a Jedi / Dark Jedi and finding out about his terrible, brutal past... KOTOR 2 beats KOTOR 1 in every way. Sorry but it's true. If only Lucasfilm wasn't such asses and made the game come out too soon. Just imagine how much more cool stuff Obsidian could have added beyond the Restored Content given the time...
They still would have been restricted by technological limitations. An Xbox disc has room for about 5.5 gigabytes of data. Not enough for them to put in much more content than was already in there.
I would love to see what they could do on a modern console with this old school game design philosophy
Basically, Atton was pretty much KOTOR's Han Solo. And his backstory was very well-thought-out and interesting.
As for KOTOR 1 and 2, both games excel at storytelling. Essentially KOTOR 1's plot is a blending if the first plot in Baldur's Gate and the first plot in Neverwinter Nights.
Man you nailed it at the end there- played this game when I was 10 and bought it cause the cover looked like Battlefront. All these years later this is still one of my favorite games of all time, and thank you for not shitting on Peragus like everyone else- I found the story and setting there to be immensely interesting and atmospheric. Gonna start it up again for old times sake- Jedi Jesus/HK-47/Kreia for life!
Handmaid is awesome don't you disrespect my handmaid. I did not like that you don't get her as female as a male character she severs a good propose.
He played as female , many features are gender locked and not only.
No he played as both but the canon version is female. Because Kotor 1 writer wanted Revan to be male, I am convinced that is the only reason. If you ever read the Revan Book it is completely disrespectful to the exile story.
+129das If I recall correctly, I seem to remember that it is the Jedi Exile who is responsible for the resurrection of the Jedi Order. The Jedi she trained during her travels, excluding Bao Dur, went on to restore the Jedi Order and it would continue to exist for thousands of years after.
It is shameful that they leave her ending so open and don't even properly acknowledge her existence in the MMO, nor what happens to her (did she become one with the Force? Is she still a spirit? Did she die permanently?) but I choose to believe that she just became one with the Force at the same time Revan did.
I agree, just finished the game for the first time. to me handmaiden was one of the more important characters of the game, the whole story and conflict with Atris just wouldn't feel right without her.
uhh
Get rid of Handmaiden? Her WIS bonus to DEF is super!
Beautiful game. Great review.
Unfortunately, things that followed created the wound in the force, which can never be healed.
Literally or figuratively? Lol. KOTOR 3 wasn't made due to a wound in the force :(
Both :) Was referring to SWTOR project, which reduced the evolution and complexity of KotOR franchise to nothingness.
Did you play SWTOR extensively? I have beaten all the story-lines except Jedi Consular and the Imperial Agent (which I hear is the best).
Sure thing I did, and appreciated lots of things in there. It's the best MMO that could exist for KotOR fan (until Cartel Market plague infected it), and a nice continuation of KotOR I. As continuation of TSL, however, it is horrible.
Dream about the day when SWTOR will be shut down, and Revan's & Exile's fates - rewritten in KotOR 3.
Also, looking forward to Logan's Revenge of Revan :)
Why did you think Cartel Market was a reason it was bad? And is Revenge of Revan still being made? I remember hearing about that years ago lol.
The mod that lets you take the Handmaiden along on a female run is one of the best possible mods you can get.
Also makes sense, given that according to the "canon" or what used to be canon, the Exile is female but does have the Handmaiden-.
And the disciple is just boring and does nothing to the story
Just the fact that you are still reading the comments of this video did just earn you a sub
but also the video was awesome man did not even know about this mod i gues i go for my (5) fifht playtrough
sry for my bad english thoug
If you play like I did the second time I beat it with full light side and your companions are always Visis and Bao-dur because in my opinion they are the best characters to accompany you. Visis hits the full shift to the light side before you do. Then if you keep those companions after always making light side decisions Bao-dur eventually turns into a Jedi guardian and is full light side and has a strength upgrade for force mastery. Let me tell you when you're walking through the levels with Visis and Bao-dur being Jedi Masters and yourself you just bulldoze through any enemy or creature with practacly no resistance. So the light side is harder to go through but it's rewards are greater.
I liked how he openly made the Sith Lords pitiable. Both Nihilus and Sion regret what they are. Nihilus loves Visas and screams in rage and anguish when he sees her with the Exile. He also is said to do what he does because he cannot self-terminate so he does as he must, but without any relish. Sion loathes his existence. They are both evil and must be stopped but they are like a lot of people on the 'wrong' side in a conflict, not loathsome human beings but still people who must be stopped. The Jedi and the Republic are good, but both arrogant and ineffectual.
*But Czerka ruined EVERYTHING*
The way Bao Dur says that always makes me chuckle.
Dude, this is even better than your usual death of a game stuff, it feels much more chill.
I loved this game so much. Your video makes me want to play through it all over again!
This game was why I fell in love with RPGs that are story driven like this.
I really liked your video on this, brought a lot of memories and I agree with many of your points.
i honestly loved how you could turn your companions to the darkside and train them in the force but kotor 2 was more fun with a dar side playthroug in my opinion
This video changed a big deal of my view on what CZcams can be good for instead of just a regular junk food for brain. It definitely helped me to be able to analyze things better and I'll be glad to follow this channel.
I am writing my own series of books set in a fictional world and now I know how to approach a story structure and character development better than I used to.
I might also seek out some person to give me a feedback on one of them to see how well I'm doing, hopefully someone as level-headed as you. :)
Wow great video! I love this series!
awesome in-depths analysis that definately got me hooked. I love the game since i first played it so so long ago :D
I'm not going to say the vocal recording / editting on this video is bad, BUT, just makes me really appreciate your growth as a narrator / script writer. Dedication to a craft is always impressive and I appreciate the thoughtful content
It's pretty bad, thanks for the compliment
Cool to look back at one of your old video and I need to go finish Kotor 2 now.
Make more kotor videos. i've always enjoyed both of these games and love learning new things about them always
Great game. Though KOTOR 1 is still my favorite. I thought the worlds were more interesting in the first one. Also I'll never forget the first time I played KOTOR 1 when I saved a poor old man from getting dragged off to be killed, only to then rob him of his money myself. Or when I forced Zaalbar to kill his best friend. I do agree about the characters though, they're much less cookie cutter and deeper in II. One of the best things about this game compared to the first one is the fact that it tells you if a container is empty. :p
Wonderfully Done!! You did an Amazing Job breaking down the Pros & Cons of what is Ultimately 1 of My FAVORITE Video Games of ALL TIME (The other being The 1st KOTOR Game).
I'm going to end my comment without saying any more because you have Already said what I feel about the Game. Thanks.
kotor 2 was exactly as you said "grey area". i love that about it it is offically better than kotor 1 now ty
This is by far the best looking Exile I have seen yet
I think it's very believable for the Jedi to become as few as they are here as they had 3 costly wars happen to them in rapid succession. All 3 of them on top of being very costly in terms of lives causing large schisms and tearing the order apart. After having that happen to them 3 times in less than a century it makes a lot of sense for the jedi order to be as shattered as it is.
You forgot T3-M4! He may not be much of a character in terms of personality, but he is the main NPC helper in the first part of the game.
That is a good video on my favorite Star Wars game ever!
A bit late but Go-To isn't a droid criminal mastermind, I thought that too in my first playthrough but Go-To instead is one of a few specially build droids that do their masters will, they are permanently liked with him aswell, GoTo is just one of his bodyguards he sent to help you out.
I just wanna throw this in: if you train every force-compatible character into a jedi, each one of them becomes infinitely more interesting. specifically handmaiden has some really cool connections to certain characters and the plot
I love this analysis and this video as a whole. I have one critique - there’s several times throughout the video where it sounds like you’re eating something, or, like, sucking on a cough drop maybe... the result is that some of your narration sounds slurred and unclear. When you talk about SWTOR, you say that you don’t like how they handled Revan and _I think_ you say the Exile? But it almost sounds like you say Exar, as in Exar Kun? This is one example but there were other’s throughout the video. I’m playing through KOTOR 2 again, on iOS since it just came out, before I play SWTOR for the first time and enjoy that story for the first time, I’m excited. Thank you for the video!
I actually enjoy handmaiden. She also teaches you the echani unarmed fighting techniques, which can be useful, and is something I really enjoyed. Great video man, it’s great to see kotor 2 getting some love.
I love the set-up where Disciple just runs away to catch a transport. You only see him once in the game.
I played KOTOR2 several times before KOTOR1, in the army people were shocked by this, and when I finished the army and returned back to life I played KOTOR1 it was so satisfying to play a full game that wasn't rushed. Still after completing Kotor1 several times as well I find myself more drawn to KOTOR2 because of all your points here. Great vid, thanks. Looking forward to playing KOTOR2 again with the mods you mentioned. I disagree about Handmaiden, she was very interesting to talk too and she was part of the story. Mira she is completely useless, you don't need her they could have written it differently, and you only have her for a few hours... Mira, evil wookie, evil flying robot and Disciple was irrelevant, I didn't even know Disciple was in the game until my 6th or 8th playthrough.
where did you get that art while you were talking about the lore? It's amazing!
This is awesome im gonna subscribe
How about a look back at the mass effect series?
Really Well done,Very Enjoyable
Not that it matters, but when people refer to a serial villain, it's not a cereal box villain, it's a reference to old serial movies and tv shows - a stereotypical villain with a mustache that he twirls while he ties a damsel to train tracks.
I am actually surprised you dont like the Disciple. I think he was one of the more interesting characters, he was the only one that managed to see Kreia for who she really was, and recognized her as Sith and threat.
I remember the first time I played this game. It was back when I was like.... 15 I think? I was visiting GameStop wanting to buy kingdom hearts or something like that. And saw the cover thinking "Wats dis? Star Wars??" I asked the guy behind the counter what it was about and if the combat system was action packed. He explained it was turn based but the story was great. I'm so ducking happy I against my judgment bought it, and went home to put it into my Xbox.
Ever since that day. Star Wars: Knights of the old republic 2 the Sith Lords. Has been my all time favorite sci-fi RPG story wise.
The big thing I learned from playing kotor 2 was how to play pazaak. Worth it xD
The sith masters in kotor 2 are all converts during the jedi civil war of the first game. Kreia was an arkanian jedi seer and sion was her son, jedi master Lucien Kray. Their backstory is told in the kotor comics
I love this game, but I am annoyed that no one points out that the plot is both unnecessarily convoluted and has several holes. Traya's backstory is so complex and winding I have trouble making any sense of it in terms or order of events, she essentially has 3 backgrounds that dont necessarily have an obvious order. Nihlus supposedly single handedly whipped out an entire planet, yet you can beat him in a fairly easy boss fight where his only trick is to interrupt the fight with cutsenes. I dont think he could take out his own crew in a straight fight, yet he is supposed to be a world eater. Its established that out side of combat any pain the PC or Traya feels, the other also feels and Tray even uses this to black mail the PC, but in the end Traya dies after a long combat free cutscene and the PC walks away unaffected with no explanation. You are supposed to be a "wound" in the force, even though you still feel the force, can help others grow in the force, and seemingly have no ill effects. (I will grant that last part seemed purposefully left to interpretation, but from how the game plays out I had to conclude that both the council and Traya must not understand your condition, because what they describe does not align with the way the game plays out.) For all that I love about this game there is some messy writing that seems to contradict itself, but thankfully it is writtian in such a way the player can interpret allot of the story, wich helps smooth the rough edges allot.
In my experience, the M478 mod didn't work and actually disabled the restored content mod. By the time I noticed this, I was too far into my playthrough to reasonably restart. If you download M478, do it with a list of Restored Content features. If they don't show up, disable M478 and restart before you leave Paragus. Kotor 2 isn't complete without the restored content mod.
I know it is old comment, but i need to ask: Was it steam version and your mods were from Steam Workshop?
fucking love this game I remember staying up for weeks playing kotor2 and morrowind for Xbox
Jess Siemers did you mention me?
22:13 Not sure if this has been said already, but you can actually find this out WAY early in the game. I found out about Kreia being Darth Traya as early as Telos, which rather ruined my suspension of disbelief. I mean, why would I stick around with this person if I knew that so early? It makes no sense.
Something I've always found fascinating about The Force and those who follow/study it is that I always got a feeling that Jedi believed there was never truly a point of no return. Redemption can always be sought if the light side is chosen and enacted upon. Darth Vader for example has killed innocents, slaughtered many Jedi or not, and has been The Emperor's puppet and enforcer for at least a decade.
Despite all of this, he came to his senses and saved his son (and inadvertently countless others) thus earning his redemption and even achieved becoming a force ghost at the end. Vader redeemed himself in the end at the very last second he could have, but did so nonetheless. If that isn't redemption despite a person's past crimes I don't know what is.
i had an interesting experience playing the restored content mod, i met revan, i think i even had his lightsaber! I then remember being trapped in this area....but i couldnt never get that scene to reveal itself again, really strange!
It was on Korriban in the cave
Kotor 1+2 are a must for any star wars fan,I don't think I've ever been drawn in by a games story and character allies like these games.I love,the way becoming good or evil effects your force powers plus all the equipment throughout the game and being able to tinker with them especially in kotor 2 are brilliant RPG elements.Kotor 2 might not have the better story but it has so much more depth in it's rpg elements,now the choices don't just affect the main character the influence everyone,and now equipment and lightsabers have 3 accessory slots that allow you to tinker with and improve with an almost endless amount of upgrades.
Oh my god i totally forgot about jade empire that game was awesome. Good childhood nostalgia
Darth Nihilus is a vampire of the force. He has a constant craving for the force and a ravenous hunger that cannot be quelled. The Exile on the other hand has no force. She broke off her connection to the force and resulted in a life form devoid of it. The reason she has the force is that she is a vacuum. The force tries its hardest to fill that vacuum without success. This is why she quick to making allies, why calamity follows her and why she attracts so much unwanted attention. It's the force headed towards her.
10/10 video for a 10/10 game
Didn't know your channel. Loved it!! :)
->Subscribed
How do I find the restoration MOD you talk about at 4:30? I've just purchased this game, thanks :)
Awesome video I still wish for Kotor 3.
This was a really great, in-depth video of KOTOR 2. People pass by KOTOR2 as a phony copy of KOTOR 1, w/o realizing how KOTOR 2 led to the book of Revan, where it gives a backstory to the Exile and how after KOTOR 2, she went on to fight the "True Sith" with Revan. Great work!
Kreia lecturing you regardless of your decision in some situations is the whole theme of the game, the “grey” area in between light and dark where maybe neither answer is right
everythingismarshmallows.com/2019/04/04/knights-of-the-old-republic-2-isnt-much-fun/
This game was amazing! I feel like if there was a neutral path (with prestige classes etc.) plus dark side that's more subtle this game would have been just about perfect.
i loved this game so much
Wait this is that longer video i was looking for lol
Thank you for this video.. I hope you will cover Kotor 3 one day
I would have to say as far as M478 the cut planet you spoke of, In my opinion I can see why the cut it, the environment all looked the same finding specific characters was tough because where there at looks exactly the same as where you were talking to the last one
I just started on the android version. I'm glad I am able to play this gem when I'm out and about, for a quick bite or two on my phone. My next gen consoles are for playing the latest and greatest but my phone allows me to catch up on gems like this on the go.
to clear up the story the sixth you fight are the holdovers from when malek was defeated and the sithlords were x jedi who were generals in males fleet.
I think their both FANTASTIC games... Unfortunately ive never been able to beat kotor 2 due to glitches in the mainframe. Game always crashed and made me start over 😥
Hey disney, look! great female characters that pretty well nobody has a problem with :P
How the hell did you get lvl 30 at Harbinger, i did absolutely full powergaming game and ended with lvl 29 on it. Did you get any mods besides restored content?
Well said. Another A+ effort.
I think handmaiden is a decent character. She tells you about Atris and her backstory is pretty interesting. She's a badass with her echani training and becomes a really strong companion. I agree that the disciple is shallow af though.
Black Isle also did Vampire the Mascaraed, and the first 2 Fallout games.
Oh, I see we have very similar feelings about the Disciple :P
One thing I have to say is that KOTOR 2 is not the first to introduce the idea that the Jedi and Sith are both severely flawed and that some of the strongest people lie in between. The Phantom Menace touched on this idea only very lightly with Qui-Gon if you pay attention to his moral compass throughout the movie. It’s also very much explored in the first KOTOR game when you talk with Jolee and romance Bastila, but especially when talking to Jolee. I always feel like KOTOR 2 gets all the credit for that, and while it did a good job, it wasn’t the first or only story in Star Wars to do that.
everythingismarshmallows.com/2019/04/04/knights-of-the-old-republic-2-isnt-much-fun/
Kotor 1 and 2 are still my favorite games ever made. Does anyone know of any other games similar?