Behind The Grind of Playing Church Gigs
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Learning about the time, money, and energy required for church musicians, is something that nobody taught me about when starting to play church events. This video is to going to give you an inside look at what church musicians go through when playing at church gigs and how to effectively bring up money in the conversation when playing at church events in a respectful way.
So today we are going Behind The Grind of Playing Church Gigs. Make sure to watch until the end at let me know what you think!
Please let me know what you think and/or if you have anything to add to the conversation in the comments below!
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I totally forgot to mention this in this video, but I do not get paid to play in my local church. I made this video more for the perspective of people getting invited to play at churches or church events that they don't weekly attend or call their church home.
Are you with UPC? And, why don’t you get paid? I’m sorry to hear that.
Has your local church ever offered to pay you? I don’t demand to be paid when I go to visit other churches, however they generally have the etiquette to pay me anyways. I’ve only had one church in my life that demanded I give them a price. I was just helping them out and I didn’t care about the money but I did tell them a price eventually because they kept bugging me. I head the music and art department and I’m the worship coordinator at my local church. I get paid and proudly say that my church takes care of me because I take care of God’s people in worship. If they say hey we can’t pay you anymore I would still do what I’ve been doing for free.
I make sure every musician who plays at the church gets paid. You don’t know their story and what financial bind they’re in. I remember waiting until Sunday to get my check because my cell phone was scheduled to be disconnected on Monday lol
@@DOC2089you are definitely right about not knowing someone’s story, and how they’ve sowed in times of feast and famine. The true problem today is some people forget that musicians (etc) are a part of the body that needs care…….
Travis, do you think musicians should get paid to play at their local/home church?
Exactly
Speaking for myself only! To me it's not about money, it's about serving the lord with the talent that he gave me!
I'm happy just seeing somebody enjoy my music, the smiles or a tear of happiness.
This is how I have always felt . I don't ask to get paid . It's for the Lord .. and my gift is to be used to win souls . That isn't the only thing I do for the Lord . But its for the Lord
Imagine if the pastor changed the set list last minute on you though... If you're being paid, it's fine. If you're not paid, you just wasted a couple hours learning songs.
@GingerJoberton lol idk if u or anyone who plays by set list will be able to Play with our praise team . We play by improvising . We learn the songs that are new . But after learning the chord progression we just play . Sometimes we pull out something we haven't played in years and u learning it as we play . But again we let the holy ghost lead our services and in us . Haven't fail yet and yea maybe we miss a note here and there but it's all playing music by ear .
@GingerJoberton like I said .. this is me personally. I do it for God . Only Jesus. If people want to offer to give me a love offering for playing music in there church .. then fantastic . But I don't need money to play music I love being where the holy ghost is . I love doing anything and everything for God just because I love it . I work tho . So I'm not even hurting for money.. bur I have had people offer to pay me . And I declined . It's not about them it's not about me it's not about the music it's about Jesus and his spirit moving through people it's about in hopes someone's surrenders and start praying though the holy ghost .. shot .. sometimes the spirit moves so strong .. I step down from playing.. and go praise and worship and pray for others who are close to getting the holy ghost
@@bryanrios146 careful of your holier than thou way you're writing dude, I think you're trying to be nice through gritted teeth. It's not nice. Enjoy your music. I agree with the video. Pay musicians, don't degrade art. Freebies are ok.
Good video. I played keyboard at my church for two years, yes, people don't realize the time sacrifice of practice, rehearsal, live performance, cost of song and instrument material, learning your craft so yes I believe a musician should be compensated from time to time.But other members volunteer and contribute without compensation. I contributed time doing several other duties at my church without compensation. Our service is a ministry for Christ not a pay job, but I feel a love offering should be given to musicians from time to time.
You are suppose to be playing to and for God not money
@@ronhoffman7941 Noone is saying He is not playing FOR GOD... IT is biblical to pay your Levites.. Some churches don't pay their musicians and if that is their way of doing work fine. Then as a musician you have the right to do as you want whether to play or not. Getting paid or not does not make you a better follower of Christ. It is when people who get paid jump from sermon to sermon and forget about the needs and the importance of their home church that it then becomes an issue.
@@srivera001995 glory be to God the giver of all gifts also if he is not playing for God whats he doing there the musicians i know playing at church
I grow up in the church I’m professional musician, i did worship many years for free, but sometimes the people and the churches don’t understand the sacrifices that a musician go trough, the 90% of professional musician who made music college and all of that, they can’t work a normal job because they spend 4 or 8 years or their life in a university to obtain a degree in music. They can choose to play with real artist the can show to play with non Christians bands, but they doesn’t do it because they love God. nothing will happens if the church pay their musicians. You’re not God to judge them first thing first. you’re part of a family that help others. Let’s said the truth there’re churches that their pastor get paid better than any executive and CEO..
I played for mega and mid to small churches as well as a bass guitar player. I truly put God first in my life. I think there should be a pay compensation why then hire snd pay a minister of music to play piano and organ yet not pay the other musicians. but these churches will pay music artists such as Kirk Franklin , Yolanda Adams and so on who all will get in front of an audience and tell you all about praising God and you not to put God first . then why pay them and why are they taking money so why is it different fir any other musician. then they got corruption going on up to sometimes the church leadership. Come on I gotta have Record out on the airwaves to get paid at a church while all the while tell others to just have faith when you want things. quit the brainwashing. The minister of music gets paid why???
I have been playing for churches for more than 20 years… Yes you should pay your musicians. When I was younger, I didn’t care either way but the more you realize the time that is spent on rehearsals, and practicing and services, it’s worth compensation. People have to understand that for some musicians we are the ones turning the lights on in the church and sometimes the last one to leave.
did it a decade nearly i was first in last out every week nearly. I ran the sound and was lead guitar then had to install all new live sound and run the show and perform. its not easy to do 85% of the workload yourself behind this im also tuning drums prior to start dialing in ear monitoring the house and wedges for the vocals and making a lot of the creative choices in new songs
There is no faster way to lose your anointing than to demand payment for your worship.
Music ministry is a labor of love, and carries great responsibility towards the congregation.
If you are a Christian, then you'll understand.
@@spiffymongo4030 I personally have never demanded to be paid. But you do have to know your worth. I have been favored enough to not have to demand but the day I have to, I have to retire.
So I guess when a pastor gets paid for his sermons, he losses his anointing? No because they will say “oh we’re just taking care of the pastor” lol
@Spiffy Mongo pastor gets paid nuff said..
I played for the Lord.... 2 services a Sunday and also had a Christian band that played Saturday nights.... We never charged.....the place we were playing might take up a love offering but we would give it back to the venue to help with the Lord's work..... It was our sacrifice and appreciation to the Lord.... It's all about Him..... Not about you and your wanna be Christian star.... The christian music business is a BUSINESS But not God's... Wake up.....
We all had day jobs and tithed, but we looked at our abilities as gifts from God to serve him and proclaim His glory and share the good news
Played in the worship band for 15 years and never once thought about getting “paid” It was our way of worshiping
The Levites were given 10% of the church income to serve. They were responsible for all of the positions in the church, including the musicians. I go to rehearsal on Wednesday, after rehearsing alone for hours. Then I rehearse longer to perfect whatever arrangement was decided on during Wednesday's rehearsal. Sunday morning, I arrive at church early to set up and rehearse again. Finally, I help lead worship in two separate services. Some weeks, I'm ask to help with celebrate recovery meetings on Fridays. Other weeks, I'm ask to help with family night as well as a weekday service. Now, I do all of this not expecting a dime. However, according to the Lord, a man is worth his wages. According to the Lord, the church is supposed to set aside 10% to help out the servants.
Gas is not cheap. Hours of rehearsal cuts into family time. I'm a guitarist. My strings aren't free. If I was a drummer, heads aren't cheap, neither are cracked cymbals. So, while I do not expect pay, a church probably should, at least show appreciation to it's servants with some token assistance, from time to time. Some churches simply can't afford it, however, my church has 2500 members!
But what about if you cant even get the privilige to
@@fusionkim That is a misnomer, where God guides, He provides. If God truly called you to help lead worship, and it's not something you just want to do, He will provide a venue for you to worship in. People have to be honest with themselves, concerning this. A pastor can go to school for it, and never have any level of success, at least not from a spiritual standpoint. God will rarely, if ever show up and show out at his church. He'll theorize all manner of reasons, when the simple truth is, God didn't call him, so God isn't there. Believe it or not, musicians are the same. First God will put a spark in you to pick up an instrument. You will spend years perfecting that instrument, maybe even out in the world. Then, one day, God will call you home, and ask you what are you doing for Him. My answer was, nothing Lord, I'm sorry, what would You have me do? So, I stepped up and helped with worship for 25 years, after having toured the East coast, in a regional band for 15 years. You see, when God gifts an individual, every church in sight will beg Him to help out. You will step up with excellence, and zero excuses. Or, God didn't gift you and you unknowingly create distraction and problems on your team. I always rooted that out, even if I had to worship alone, but many will tolerate it, leading to unwanted consequences. Of course, their are the ones that must be trained up in worship. Those too, are gifted by God, identified by God's chosen musicians and trained for a specific time. Still, no matter how one looks at it, if there is no opportunity to worship, either you are standing in God's way, by not visiting different churches, or, you were never called, and do not possess the level of talent God requires, at this time. Harsh, but true. May God bless you, and show you where your service is needed.
I think that's the right mindset to have. I don't think musicians should ever ask to be paid, because they shouldn't have to.
I think the church leadership should be the ones to acknowledge the time spent and willingness to serve and be willing to give back to those that do.
The pastor gets paid, WHY not the ministry of music? The Levite musicians got benefits for the tithes as well as the priests. IT was their job. They had no part in the division of the promised land. It's likeness of being dependent on the congratulation's tithes for their living.
Musician here. Thank you for a perspective from both sides my brother. This was really good. God bless
As a pastor and musician, I can tell you biblically you are worthy to be paid. I've yet heard anyone question if the musicians for secular artist are paid. Great video.
I just had a conversation with my mom about this on Sunday. Some feel they shouldn't pay musicians if they are members of the church. They think you should be using your talents for God and not for pay. But like you said, all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded. Also, getting a return on the investment of your instruments, equipment and musical education is no different from a Pastor getting paid to prepare sermons and having to pay for his theology education. Thanks for the video Travis
Also, there are others on the payroll who DO NOT put in the work nor the dedication that these musicians are and are still getting some type of appreciation.
Not if that talent is your work that feeds and pay your bills that’s a decision for the musician to make not the church.
"all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded"
It is. Your reward is the ability to play music in praise of the Lord. If you don't get that, then church ain't for you. #YallNeedJesus
THAT'S RIGHT!!! Ask a MEMBER of the church who's a contractor to add-on to a building project (or something)
what do you think would happen!??!
@@DarylDCChestnut So... you're envious? Ya know that's a sin right?
Seriously, y'all are REALLY only going to church for the social club aspect. Just go play bars or clubs. Sounds like that's what you wanna do anyways.
As a photographer, I have found that when you do work for free or at a discount, the recipient places no value on your skills, time, expenses, etc.
...and generally more demanding of what you provide, especially weddings.
I've played in praise bands for 20 + years and never thought about being paid. I started playing in the church I'm in now and was shocked when they said they were paying me and I struggled with it for about six months. Now I'm at the point that I realize, it is work no matter how much fun it is and it does take away from family life, but I also take it more seriously as a job and put more time into practice.
Having been self employed for the past 20+ years... keep doing what you're doing!
I would say change the wording of your question from "Is there a budget...?" to "What is the budget...?".
If they truly don't have a budget they'll tell you, but if they do have a budget they generally won't say no. "Is there a budget" gives them wiggle room. It's subtle but effective.
I play bass at my church. I started playing for free 7 years ago. A couple years ago they offered to pay me they had been paying the pianist/vocalist. I appreciated them recognizing my growth and commitment as a musician. I never though I would say I was a paid musician.
Awesome!
You’re not a paid musician. You got a donation.
People go to church to worship Christ, not see you play your U2 cover band. They’d still be there if you weren’t there.
@@chillmusic5629
Yeah. Yeah they go to listen to your dreadful music. Of course.
And I’m the pompous one! 😂
@@adamg.manning6088 how do you know who I am out what I get? I get a check for a set amount as does our drummer and pianist. I don't know what church you go to but maybe you need go upgrade to a better grade of musician. Or is it you wish you had an iota of musical ability that someone would pay you 🤷🏿♂️
I think it’s great that you are sharing the grind of a working musician. There is a lot of sacrifice and time that is not seen. Your content is entertaining, informative and enlightening! Keep killing it on the bass!!💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I think we should get a little something maybe not every week. But sometimes. I've been blessed with money lunch and other things. And I didn't ask for anything. But churches should consider this. Music is a big part of the service.
Travis, thank you so much for this very insightful video. I’ve been a professional bass player for almost 40 years now living in Nashville Tennessee. I played at a very prominent church in Nashville for over 18 years(that was my home church) and never received any pay for that and I was OK with that. That said, I have been asked to play at many churches, both in Nashville, and also out of town. I do not have another day job, my job is being a musician. Let me preface that my father was a pastor for over 25 years so I understand “ministry“&”calling “. But I also reference the scripture that says “a workman is worthy of his hire”(Luke 10:7). While talking about money in the church can be awkward, it doesn’t have to be. There were times when churches would hire me, and then all of a sudden, they would say, “we’re not going to pay any more.” While I understand, giving your gifts to the church, and even volunteering. As a professional, this is what I do for a living and so many times, I am not paid for the hours of preparation(woodshedding,traveling,writing charts, etc) that I do to bring my proverbial A game to whatever setting I am playing. There was one instance, where a church decided after a couple of years of paying me to come and play that they weren’t going to pay me again to which I said to them if the air conditioning went out in their church, they wouldn’t expect a repairman to come and fix it for free. Some(no all) churches want professional musicians to raise the bar of musicianship, but guilt them into feeling like “if you love, Jesus, you’ll do this for free”. Again, thank you so much for this wonderful video and God bless you and your family. 🙏🏼
This is just a "sick practice" that must be eradicate from the church.
There’s a Harvard lecture series on CZcams called “Doing the Right Thing” that set me straight on getting paid for my art. The basic concept is that our labor belongs to God, so we’re not at liberty to give it away. If I wanted to offer my services to a church in the form of music, and my other gigs or my day job covered my expenses, I’d negotiate something like $10 to pay for a sandwich. There has to be something, or else the transaction is a sin from both sides - particularly covetousness from the side of the recipient. Of course our sins are forgiven, but we’re entitled to compensation for our labor. I’d say if the church leaders won’t at least provide you a modest lunch for your efforts, then you’re fine to decline - but I doubt a church would decline a great deal for ten bucks.
OK if you're a professional musician and you're playing at somewhere other than your home church then that's a different scenario
Very important topic! It’s good to have both perspectives.
I typically go in expecting nothing and only accept or decline based on whether I’m cool with that or not. IF I am paid, it is always a blessing. Either way, I’m pouring my heart and soul into learning and mastering the setlists. God sees it all and will bless either way.
Love this video. This is definitely a conversation that needs to be had more often in the church. Thank you for shining the light
My wife and I have been worship leaders in our own local churches, and we've never been paid or offered. Small churches, about 5 hrs per week total effort prep and performing no bid deal.
When we've accepted invites to other congregations, they've always offered to pay us, and we've always politely declined. Nothing wrong with offering or accepting payment, we just prefer to serve without it.
Feel rhe very same way .
Thank you for this honest and genuine commentary. I believe church musicians should be paid and taken care of by the ministry. I pray more ministries come to this understanding. Thanks and blessings for your input.
Nope, it’s already enough that our lord gifted me the ability to play instruments, the least I could do is use that gift to worship him, sacrifice time if necessary, he will bless me in his own ways for my sacrifices.
@@miguelmedina1132that's your truth. Everyone has one.
Thank you for addressing this. I appreciate how professional you are, and really seem to have a great spirit. I help out a few churches and get paid to play bass. This is a big help to them on either short-term (like their bassist is on hiatus), or longer term giving them a little boost in musicianship. I'm upfront about what I'm able to do practice-wise (no mid-week practice), and that I ask for payment. In return they get an experienced musician who: show's up on time and prepared, dresses appropriately for the type of church, and has a positive and friendly attitude. I'm greatful for them all, and I believe they are happy to have me.
As a bass player myself this was insightful and informative because most churches/people don't understand what goes on behind scenes 👍🏾
I know exactly what your saying.
"You have a guitar. Your supposed to know every song ever written". One @$$#○£€ complained that we spent "too much time tuning up".
In one church, some of the congregants said I was too big and "scary looking" to play on the worship team, even though I was the only member who could read and transpose music.
I was even told at one church not to "play too well, because it would hurt another member's self confidence".
I WILL NEVER, EVER PLAY MUSIC AT A CHURCH, EVER AGAIN. EVER. WHETHER THEY PAY ME OR NOT.
I spent 12 years dealing with this churchy Bu//$#¡T.
Never again.
Now I ONLY play secular gigs......for MONEY.
@@m.loughlin1915completely agree with the preconception many members have on their musicians. Especially when it comes to ones who play instruments, the other I was told to tone down my playing as "it was distracting the vocalists and they can't hold a tune." The same vocalists in questions without fail, never practice the songs, never remember the lyrics, and skulk whenever notes are given at practice. I get that there's time where my sound isn't what the song calls for or I'm either rushing or dragging a bit. That's on me. But I'm not gonna play a completely different song or simplify a song for those who don't care enough to know how the opening harmonies go to the song we're playing.
Praying for you and your ministry bro Travis Dykes. It's nice to see you at work in the realm of what you do 😊
I made it in the Vlog 🙌🏼
I was the second kid in the suit who waved his hand at 7:40
This is so cool because this Vlog took place at my church!
Bruh, I don't know who you are; but, I looked for you.
...And, I waved back. 👋🏽
@@PunkIsDead...LikeMe why thank you, how polite 😌
@@carsonrogers09 Well, you're very welcome!!
Preach it brother. I am a firm believer in being worth what you are asking and being value added on top of that. Thank you for sharing.
In our church we are given a love gift. No fixed value though but it feels great that our efforts get recognized by our church leaders as much as we get recognized by God
You have an excellent perspective and approach to this very touchy topic. Long ago I was a volunteer musician at my church. (Definitely not professional grade!) we had a mix of of volunteers and paid pros. It was never a conflict and I learned a ton!
As a full time musician you need to be able to support your family.
If you're a pro musician, do session work, or play gigs for your money.
It's wrong to expect payment for your worship.
Don't mess with God
@@spiffymongo4030 preachers get payed also we dont expect to be payed but some apreciation for your time and effort is not out of place and I specifically mean service outside of your home church because if someone asks you to play somewere then you ar emost likely leaving your own place making time for said event its not wrong to accept a compensation
I am a volunteer bassist for my church. We have 3 other volunteer bassists, 4 drummers, 2 guitarists, all volunteers. The keyboard/piano player is paid and a pro musician. I have learned sooo much from the other bassists- who are 🔥, by the way, I get to play through a state of the art, professional concert sound system that is just stupidly loud and clear because we just recently built a new church that we saved for 20 years to build and it is such a blessing from God! I’m ok with not being paid money to play bass on the praise team because I’m getting so much more out of serving God on this ministry. HOWEVER, I completely understand that if playing bass is how you make a living to support your family and yourself, then absolutely you should be paid, and paid well. ❤
I am totally against it. I am a musician and I know from experience that it's wrong. And most of them are only playing for money. And some don't live for God. They only do it for money. But this is not all of them. You just have to be careful and not put a burden on the members for the greed of musicians. And again, this ain't all musicians. I've seen many of them brag about just playing, not working and having sex.
But doing it on the level you Travis does it, by driving 4 hours, learning lots of songs, then yeah get paid. But make sure it's for the glory of God 1st. 12:25
I’ve been playing and leading worship from the keyboard for over 20 years now. For the first 15 years I never got paid. It was always an act of service.
However, when the church asked me to become the worship Director, it required additional responsibilities. We have a monday meeting for Planning services and debrief. We have several monthly meetings to discuss technical elements of the service, on boarding new musicians, and planning for special events. It also requires me to spend about 3 to 5 hours per week, organizing songs, preparing for the service, making sure musicians are available and ready, and showing up early and leaving late on Sundays.
The church begin to pay me, and it was just enough for me to be able to justify quitting my job and picking up other part-time work. If the church was not paying me, I would not be able to be at any of these meetings.
It wasn’t until I laid out the fact that I was spending nearly 15 hours a week, working on services, programs, music, and meetings that they realized that it was more than just playing on Sundays
I am very thankful that you highlighted that Music is a ministry and not just a payday. We have to realize the importance of music and how this reaches people. But also on the other hand, we have to care for our musicians as they do for our ministries.
Thank you for covering this touchy topic. You did it with respect, class and an unbiased perspective. You have a great spirit and your heart is in the right place. Again, I can’t thank you enough.
-A former church musician who still plays out on occasion.
Unbiased!
Dude is literally the one trying to get paid!
Thaks for sharing, we need more open conversations and awareness!
Great video, Travis demonstrating a day in the life of a church musician that travels. The line, “Man, we’re asking a lot of him and we don’t even have a budget?” is especially right on when you’re expected to play for free.
Well done addressing a topic that needs to be addressed more in the church! (Numbers 18:21-32)
I played lead guitar at my local church and the time involved was considerable. When they didn’t have a specific instrument covered they would hire someone but we were not paid.
Man you are inspiring, I learn so much how you tell your story and approach
Thank you Travis for a very insightful video. Congregants have no earthly idea how much time, effort, and money it takes to play an instrument in a worship setting. I have made it a ministry my whole life starting at the age of 12 playing in church. I have also worked in traveling groups. 95% of the time I took no money even for expenses because I have been financially blessed by my regular job. Your handling of the matter is perfect. Keep on sharing and expanding the horizons of ministry leadership.
Thank GOD for this Brother Bass Player! Keep On Jammin' For Jesus!!! 👍💯
I agree with you Travis. What you are doing by coaching, teaching, mentoring other musicians and also playing for certain events you should get paid. That should be talked about from the church perspective up front before you even show up especially if you are driving several hours and spending the night in a hotel. I like what you posted afterward about not being paid by your local church. The way I look at this is I am using my talents that the Lord has given me as a drummer for the Lord and giving back to my church. The Lord does not want us to simply give money to the church. He wants us to give of our talents as well. Thanks for the great content and for speaking on that "taboo" subject of getting paid by the church.
You handled this with beautiful grace. Totally get your heart. Never heard anyone talk about this before. I am a professional musician and music teacher. I have given up a night's teaching to attend rehearsals as well as learn the material throughout the week. Would be nice to be paid a small amount to cover the evening's income, but.... I consider this as a part of my offering to the church and the privilege it is to play for the King of Kings.
Love this! Thank you for sharing this with us!
@Travis Dykes I am really greatful🙏 you checking into this boxes, I am anticipating on more videos of a life of musician behind the scenes.
Being an upcoming drummer as well as a singer, I can totally relate to what you tryna say and I can't add even a word. I would be watering down the video. You, sir, have put it so well. And I would so just as you have done.
Love the dialogue. We are in ministry but pay needs to be a part of it.
Not sure but open to debate about this topic because this kind of sentence exist from the modern church. Anything you could do in church is now payable.
Do you pay your wife or husband when she or he cares about children or cooking? No because this is her/his house so when you go to church and spend time to make the place well, why do you want to get paid?
And now people dare to say "if you do not pay me for the service, I will not do it"...
@@thymick5581 If Preachers are paid, then others should be paid too.
@@Robert_Charles Why Preachers should have be paid? ccording what scripture Preachers are paid? Are Apostles was?
@@thymick5581 I don't understand your comment. All I am saying is that if preachers are being paid (Salary or through the offering), then others who help outed out with the service should be paid too.
@@Robert_Charles My question is simple, you told me that if a Preachers is paid so do musiciens right? So I just asking why Preachers should be paid? If there is no reason, same thing for musiciens.
And to fit to the Bible, tell me where preachers or helpers have been paid? If there is nowhere so people invented a new rules and are upsets now and quit church to go where they can find what they want.
Love the videos! Thanks so much for doing them!
Yes, especially invited musicians. If you are traveling you DEFINITELY should be paid IMO. I came across 2 videos from these EXACT sessions (James Wilson, and David Jennings), and I enjoy them alot (I have them in my playlist and share rotation) and your fills BLOW ME AWAY. Thanks so much for this video, it is sorely needed. Continued blessings on you and yours.
You are such a humble.... May God bless your life brother
Much love and support❤
Appreciate the content, your heart, and talking about the monetary element of worship gigs. Blessing on your musical journey!
The production quality of the video is so good, keep up the excelent work man.
+
Thanks for the insight! Appreciate your honesty & perspective.
Thank you for saying so much of what so many of us haven't been able to say!!! you are right; its all in how we come at the conversation and how should come is humbly and professionally!!! working to see the others perspective is super important!!!! thank you for your honesty and sharing your experience with us!!!
I feel ya bro 😎 in every sense. There was this church in Pico Rivera that I used to help out, and they used to give me $20 but that church was fire 🔥 and I felt a sense of belonging, even-though it wasn’t my church. So sometimes your spirit will tell you to go because you’re gonna get blessed in a miraculous way!!
I live in Pico Rivera
For me personally I get paid at church. Im currently a college student and most college students I know at my university rely soley on church pay because it helps us with our field of study (music major) and it also helps us keep the sound sounding good (bass strings, amp, etc.) So i feel like there is really no down side to paying them.
Fellow college student, and I completely feel your brother. I don't get payed, but the experience in playing, practicing and performing certainly does help. But I'm happy you're living best life and getting help doing it! :)
Thank you for this content.
I too am a musician in both the secular stance and worship. Things changed for me when a key member of the media team left now I am more in an engineering roll and what you have said still holds true. On top of all this I also have a day job that really restricts my flexibility but allows me use both sides to make a service special.. it is not easy... So I thank The Lord for you and the content you published for both sides to consider, Stat Blessed!
Absolutely…. Support goes both ways … money is just 1 way to honor your members
I play music, take care of the sound system and also as multimedia in our village ( Malaysia,Sabah ) church almost every week of the year. I never ask to be paid or paid to do all this, but there is a time when I miss worshiping in church without any service. most memorable for me was dividing my time in the rehearsals.I'm just small farmer.
A few comments…
One, bro your videos are great! The B roll, the sounds fading in and out, I watched the whole video from start to finish and that’s hard for me. Cheers to your content consumption, I can tell you’ve been doing research.
Two, the way you gracefully presented this topic as well as giving instruction on how to address it professionally is essential. It lets the younger cats know how to handle it, in any music gig scenario.
Three, and I’ll close here. I’ve been playing in church for most to all of my Music career, heck, my life. It wasn’t until parents called it out that I was the only one not getting paid because I was a teen, or maybe not as valuable. But I didn’t mind because I was also taught servitude and how everything I do, I should do it for Gods glory. So I found joy in just playing. Also, For months at my other church, I was driving 30/40 minutes 3-4 times a week to play, rehearse, teach, and record because of that joy of doing it for God, and getting the resume experience…until I realized that my gas tank needed a drink. While it was not in the budget for the church to do checks at the time, someone from the church covered my gas the whole time. Since then I’ve been getting paid and given gear as well.
So this topic is scenario based. For any musician out there playing in church, you should play for God. When you play for God, you get paid by God in some way. Also, yes it is a ministry and also ran by humans who can and will use “servitude” as the title of the door mat they make you. My pastor said once, “don’t be a door knob and let everyone use you.” (It was really “don’t let everyone get a turn” but he was talking abo…nvm)
Thanks for the vid, it’s needed.
Love you bro
Always authentic, humble and serving
Love learning from you
Thanks for your time and effort with thus and all of your post , you are truly fantastic brother .
Great video! I wondered where you'd be playing when you said Columbus, and I've lived within a couple miles of that church for most of the past 20 years.
Outside of my time as a staff member, I have always expected and been willing to play as a volunteer in my home church (and the churches I've been a part of have been pretty small). But when I'm asked to play away from my home church on a Sunday, compensation is definitely an important consideration. And similarly, I would never expect an outside musician to come play for a service I was leading without being compensated. What is feasible within a particular congregation's budget is always going to vary, but the intent to treat musicians well is important. And, like you, I have also been blessed well beyond expectation by generous folks in the past.
Thanks for an honest approach to a difficult subject!
Great approach about this subject, nobody can imagine the number of hours for a musician get ready with any new song. And this cost should be compensated. I love your bass tips.
Love you bro. You’re authentic. God bless and increase you!
Thanks for sharing your perspective and insight.
I’m one of the few musicians not paid in my team and I won’t take it either because I can’t afford to leave work for additional services and events when I can’t be there. Yes, it’s a lot of work to practice and taking my own time but I do it with a giving heart and love it. Also fortunate and blessed to have a church that can pay for my gear and accessories needed.
Yes... I'm a preacher's kid so I grew up in church. If a musician is professional (or more than a beginner player) they should be paid. They're paid to make sure they've practiced and have the proper gear. That said a lot of churches don't pay their musicians and if they can't that's fine. But I've seen churches that are not hurting for money not pay their musicians while expecting way too much from them (Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, funerals, weddings, practices, etc...) I've seen a lot of musicians get burned out. If they just want to play for the Lord they can always donate the money back.
Quoting Jesus in Luke 10:7 "...the laborer deserves his wage..."
I get paid to play for each service, events, and more for the church I play for. Practice usually takes 30-40 minutes which covers the entire weekend. Everyone comes prepared as it is required to come prepared. Occasionally if its something last minute we all listen and learn the song the day of rehearsals. Other than that, it is my full time job on the weekend. It covers my bills cuz musicians gotta eat and as a full time musician, this is my bread and butter, or bread and wine as one might say. =) -- This has also opened relationships to other musicians playing with choral groups, jazz groups, and local studio sessions which also paid well.
I am very thankful for the church i am thankful for the opportunities they give me.
I have to say Travis that you did a wonderful job of covering this topic. I just entered my sixth decade of playing music for which I have been paid to play though often not very much lol. There was a period in Sydney when playing guitar supplemented by FOH work was my primary source of income. These days I'm in south Florida playing small secular gigs and have found my first ever calling to play in a praise band at a local church. Initially I volunteered my time even though I knew other musicians were being paid. Everyone in the band either is or has been a professional musician. A few months ago a new pastor came in, heard the band and insisted that due to the time commitment I should be paid as well and after much thought and prayer I accepted. I based this on the pastor's sincerity on wanting me to accept and the fact that the hours I put into the guitar parts for five songs every week are far greater than the money I receive. Your video made me feel a lot more comfortable with my decision.
Travis...love the channel. I have played in and out of church for over 30 years and never been paid for a church gig. I also havent had to choose between a paid gig and serving in church and that would definitely put a different perspective on it. I have a good job and am able to only play what i want, when i want and do so just for my enjoyment not financial gain. My $.02.
Great video and a conversation that must be had if this is how you make a living. In my area, unfortunately, the big churches with multi-million dollar budgets usually run on volunteers (ie. free). They have 3 services a week and a day for practice but aside from the music pastor, and maybe one chief musician, musicians generally don't get paid. And on the flip side, I know of smaller Presbyterian, methodist churches (50-75 people) who may only have the budget for one pianist, but they pay that person per service. Unbelievable. What ends up happening in the big churches is musicians get burned out so they don't commit...they get put on a schedule about once a month, and unfortunately the music sounds ok but could be better. Personally, I think it's shameful when big mega-churches don't do any budget for the musicians, I mean, these churches have coffee shops and even a free coffee (good coffee) goes a long way. More often than not, the musicians themselves, or volunteers in the church end up buying food (I'll bring the bagels, someone else the juice, someone else, fruit, etc) for the team. I'm down with volunteering and yes, it is a ministry, but I wish mega-churches (in my area at least) put a little bit higher value into the volunteerism that happens (from musicians, to production team, the people running the cameras, sound board, the teleprompters, etc)....Just my 2 cents.
I bet the Senior Pastor makes six figures tho'
I ever go to a mega² church which is one of the biggest in the world
I get the opportunity to go behind the scenes and know their budget for musician and all (my close friend is the brother of their main guitarist)
They do mix of volunteers and paid
What i see is that the volunteers were usually ppl that have work/business of their own, and the paid musicians is the one that just play music for living
And also they have like a buffet of foods every service (for ppl who serve only)
Its a really nice food, ranged from like pizza to sushi and stuffs
Ive seen you on a couple of videos, you always play with PASSION & GRACE. GOD COVER & KEEP you sir, great video! Your sacrifices affects the Kingdom of God.
Your so on point with this, thank you for sharing.
Yes!! The church should absolutely pay their musicians for the services rendered. The world pays their guest musicians handsomely, why shouldn't the church? Now, I get that some churches can only give so much and I've helped minister in many of those churches; those experiences were a blessing to me. I gigged from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's as a sax player. I played at many churches and only a handful paid me. Of course, my focus was serving Jesus and the church, but it got to the point where I was losing money. I also understand the saxophone is an auxiliary instrument and not the core of the band, but every dollar amount helps, large or small.
We need more brass in the church. :)
And the church should absolutely be paying taxes.
It's simple - pay the musicians!!! There is nothing wrong with getting paid to sustain your life even if working as a worship musician - all the better! New to this channel, Travis you are genuine and humble and really appreciated you were courageous enough to address the topic. People take for granted the music happens spontaneously - it's a ton of work!
Love it bro!! Always learn lots from your videos🙏🏽
Very well done! Blessing to you my Brother !!!
Only speaking for myself. I will occasionally volunteer my time and skills to my home church. However, I've ceded all my other church gigs. Between California's gig law, and then COVID, my $300 four-hour (rehearsal, two services) gigs became "we can W-2 you @ $24/hr - or < $100 gross. I admit my sense of goodwill expired. It pains me to hear from choirs and members of the congregation how the quality of musicianship has suffered, but I just figure - hey, let the young cats take the $100 gigs. Time for me to pass the work on to the next generation.
Same here, bro. I helped out at many different churches for a decade and just called it a day. I constantly heard from church leaders how their music needed to improve, but when it came to compensation...crickets.
I have been blessed to play in churches for about 30 years ( side note, I should be better than I am for the time I’ve been playing) and the majority has been free. Especially if it was my home church. The first church I got paid at was so small I felt too bad taking their money so I put it back in the offering. That said I have played a few churches that paid regularly and the standard rate has been $75 per service.
I used to make the exact same statement ten years ago, but I have since forgiven myself for only being as good as I am (after all 40+ years).
You and I got started before CZcams and the host of other free (or nearly free) online resources were a thing. I bet you: 1. don't play to put food on the table 2. that you didn't go to school for music and 3. that you have a day job.
Take advantage of the resources that are available now, but also give yourself a break.
If a church organization has the funds, then yes. Bless the musicians…. Specially if the expectations are high.
It takes years of practice, knowledge, and a lot of money in gear to give what a lot of churches are asking for.
I really do appreciate your insights and advice.
Very helpful, very respectable, very inspiring!!! Another great vid from Travis!❤️🔥👍🏼🔥
I Thank you very much for this video. At times I do feel musicians are not truly respected. I am a bassist and a guitarist. Been playing for many years At one point felt depressed. I own several basses and guitars as well. Was about to sell everything just give it all up. I felt at one point it was just a total waste. A friend of mine I ran into have not seen in many years. We had a conversation about how i felt he’s a singer. He said to me it is a gift God has given me, no one can do what you can do , how you do itI froze when he said that. I went back to scriptures psalms 149 and 150. “Praise him with the strings and pipe”. It hit me like a bolt of lighting the Lord doesn’t just honor singers!!. I am just as important to God as the singer.. It is a gift from God that I play bass and guitar he wants me to praise him with both of them…your video is a confirmation of the importance of rehearsal the sacrifice it takes to perform .I for now on play both my instruments as long as I live.. Thanks again Travis on this video it is a blessing to me
I enjoyed this I’m a musician and understand and appreciate it. REAL TALK
Again Travis, really enjoy the in depth details that are never discussed, Cheers
I recently stepped into my music full-time (not really by choice), and having grown up playing in church, I found hiring myself out to other churches to be a solid way to bridge the gap. My pastor and I actually spoke about it the other week and he brought up the point that having to work on Sunday isn't an evil thing, and pastors are "working" on Sundays, too. He also reminded me that it doesn't matter so much what church you go to, as long as you're a part of the global Church, despite denominations or granular beliefs. You video was a great insight into what it's like to actually be a paid professional in the field.
What musicians do for very little is crazy. Because we are passionate about playing we accept too much generally. Churches teach about giving and blessing, they should start in the church, show appreciation by blessing those who tirelessly put in many hours, often for free!
Bingo!
Then go find a bar to play in. Churches ain't bars or night clubs. If you go in expecting money, you are the a-hole in the situation.
This was great! Thank you for the info. God bless you.
Very well stated. Thanks for sharing.
Of course they should.
Why?
@@thymick5581 Do you work for free.
@@TheBbtlegit Playing music is not a job when you are in the middle of your borhter and sister in Christ
@@thymick5581 Playing music isn't. B ut putting in time to learn songs and traveling back and forth is work. Don't be a dummy.
@@TheBbtlegit Apostles should have been rich for all travals they did at their time... Oh no sorry Yeshua asked them to do not take any money from people what a shame...
So what you are not able to do something without asking money for it? Everything you would have done deserve compensation? If you are not able to do something just say it, if traveling back and forth is too much for you just say it and stop it.
Don't be foolish
If other members of the church staff expect to be compensated (ie pastoral staff, music director, bookkeepers, etc) why would there be a different expectation for musicians?
It depends on you and your heart. If the Pastor ask for a car, will you ask for a car too just because other people are asking something? The modern church is living thanks to money and this is the major problem. Anybody should not be paid for any service, God gives you talent for the church, if you want to be paid, play music outside.
@@thymick5581 With respect and love, I disagree… especially in the context of a person like Travis who supports his family as musician. If an individual wants to volunteer their services, great! (I’ve been a volunteer musician and FOH sound tech) but what the video addresses is the often significant time required and expense that putting on quality production requires.
@@surfrduede Thx for The comment. The problem with context is that everybody could have a good excuse but this is not how church works. This is why everybody gather everything they had to help people needed.
The only people that the old church were asking To help: only widows, orphins, poor one. Never mention people helping Church and when Apostle Paul visited other church To collect money it was not for him but for other churches in difficulty.
Otherwise everybody should be paid, Pastors, musiciens, choir, cleaners, the welcome department, people working for a good sounds, people working for the lights, people working for the lyrics on the screen, etc.
Also, the problem is churches want to put the stress on music and everything to help people feeling Well but less in scriptures, so people are tired, you do not know how many christians quit church because they are tired.
Shame on Pastors focus on everything but the people, they want always more, more music, more lights, more buildings, etc. without asking To people if they are ok. Unfortunately, they do not want to loose their job so they accept everything... They have To say "no I cannot spend my time for that espacilly whom with a family.
When they will do simpler thing, everything will be better.
@@thymick5581 I disagree as well
Well said and well presented thank you for sharing
Such a great video, thank you for sharing your heart!!
I’ve been paid for playing churches for over 35 years. Played for free at my home church for 16 years. The paid Church Guitarist “career” just came to me without seeking it. I believe the Lord led me into it, and I continue to get hired at churches at age 65. I’ll keep playing as long as the Lord gives me the ability.
Yes you should get paid ❤
Why?
Awesome video - loved your perspective and also that tasty playing during the services!
This is very, very helpful! Appreciate you, my brother!
I played guitar in a church band many years ago. We did not get paid. It was not even a consideration. In hind sight, I think we should have been paid. The pastor, church organist, accountant & admin, cleaner, building repairs all got paid. The musician is not as respected or valued as they should be.
Former church musician (for over a decade). Mercifully, I left that world for good back in 2015. Now, I get to go to church with my wife to worship and serve. I DO NOT miss that grind.
You’re on point, Bro. Travis.
Thank you for the excellent topic and video. I personally went from a gigging musician in bars/weddings for 30-years to only playing in my church (now for 3-years). For me personally, I am most grateful for the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ; He saved me. So I am glad to serve, not entertain. May he use us all to reveal His glory.
I’ve played in several churches, was worship leader in two, lead guitar, and bass player/ harmonica player in others, and am at present worship leader in my church. Never ask for pay, and wouldn’t take it if it was offered. Freely God gave me my talent, and freely I will use it for his glory! I don’t look at playing praise and worship as a gig, I look at it as a honor, and a privilege. God is not impressed with my talent, or any musicians talent, he is the one who gives it for his purpose. What touches Gods heart, and is excepted by him is true worship and willingly sacrificing our desires, and our time and effort for his glory and purpose! I get paid when I go to my job, but it’s not a job playing worship, it’s my ministry, and service to my God! Paid gigs are played for entertaining people, and self glory. Worship has no motive but to glorify the Lord! Paul said, it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. But he then said, Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. You certainty are entitled to be be paid for your labor. But for me, if I do it for money, then where’s my sacrifice? No, I will not take money to worship my God, I will not turn my worship of my Lord into a gig! To me all of it, the money I pay for the equipment I have, the time it takes to practice, the going there early, and leaving last, is all worship! But every man has their own convictions, and mine is that he, the Son of God, willingly suffered shame, was beaten and whipped until he was unrecognizable, willingly allowed himself to become a curse, being hung on the cross, and took upon himself my sin, and the sin of the entire world. And I’m going to charge money to worship him?
I wouldn't see it as 'charge to worship'.. I could worship God in my home all alone.. to get money for playing in church should be more of a gratitude and support for people that devote their time and energy in mastering their instrument and practicing songs so they can serve the church in playing music for God on which the church can sing and worship along.
@@Thomlinmusic Did not Jesus paid us in full, when he went to the cross, and bought us back, paying with his own shed blood! Do we now serve him for money? I will never take a dime to have the honor of serving, and worshipping him! Freely he gave, freely I will serve!
@@HumbleHeartMinistry I do love the dedication.. for me it's not any different because it's not about the money.. but money is what we use to buy food, to live and survive on this world. To me everything belongs to God and if I, by His mercy, get money from the hand of the church I can continue doing what I do.. I rather get a little money from the church and being able to work full time for His kingdom then working 80% of my time at a job that serves no higher purpose so I can "serve for free" once a week. Although I do believe there's no wrong in both views!
Fair points and I agree. So with that said, the pastor and leadership should not get paid either. Let’s keep it fair for the glory of God.
@@mattanderson967 I agree with you!
I’ve played in church for 35+ years, never been paid, never ask to be paid, my musical abilities is a gift from God, my play is my love & my worship back to God. That’s like God saying I’m going to charge you for salvation.
You are totally wrong. I person can have a gift of being a lawyer or a doctor. Does that mean they shouldn't get paid for it? Your statement is a typical one that I have found comes from musicians that are either not that good in the first place or blinded because they lack scripture to back it up. Your example is totally wrong when you say that it's like charges God. First of all, you are not charging God anything. Getting paid to perform a service is just that I don't care how many years you have played. If I were a member of your church and the church needed it's roof fixed, you are saying I should just do it for free? What about cutting the grass or fixing the air conditioner? If my gift were a means of me earning income to support my family I shouldn't get paid because it's a gift from God? Everything I am and everything I have the ability to do is a gift from God and by that token I shouldn't use anything for the purpose of money, therefore, I should work for free? The ability to use my arms, legs ect.. is all a gift.
So, I get paid to play so I am not giving my praise back to God? I suggest you study 1 Chronicles 9:33, Nehemiah 11:22. While I don't agree with just hiring any musician no matter how well they play, there is a business factor to everything.
It seems you were born at the church you play for. What do you say to a musician that doesn't have a relationship with a church and doesn't know the Pastor and he is looking for a church to play for? Will that church not ask for a resume? Will they not ask him and view his abilities? Will they not ask him to be at that church at the same time every Sunday? Would he not be required to be there? Then essentially he is an employee. Just as a church would hire a contractor. You believe that a musician should go through this process and then have a requirement behind it and not get paid? What if that pastor travels allot and wants his musician to be there? So, that musician should be required to go out of his own pocket and pay his own expenses?
If you want to play for free that's on you and how YOU feel about it. But, to act like that's a requirement from God is far from the truth.
@@tawtam1 I find your lack of understanding and knowledge entertaining and yet humorous. I am very good at what I do, my statement is MY STANDARD, MY CODE, what I choose to live by. If God wanted me to be ignorant or think as you do He would have created me in your image and not HIS.
You took my words and made it seems as if that was concrete. I stated my opinion and what I stand by, I never once said it was a requirement, I never once said that God requires it and you might had understood that that if you were not speaking from a place of ignorance and a weak level of comprehension. You should definitely work on your comprehension because just like you twisted my words you can definitely have a misunderstanding of scripture.
I love this perspective!
Very good advise and spot on conversation Travis, you da man!