Finally! Save Progress in Pink Coin Levels AFTER Keydoor! Mario Maker 2 Magic
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- As long as mario maker 2(and the original) have been out, there's never been a fully uncheese-able way to give a player a boss fight after finishing a pink coin challenge level because if the player dies after entering the keydoor, they will lose their key and coin progress. Well lucky for us, Comex discovered an interesting quirk about pink coins which we can use to solve this problem.
Comex showing his discovery: • Pink Coin ELB demo
Ceave explaining in a more simple level: • Is it Possible to Stor...
I saw Ceave's Video on it and never really thought about this...
This is great!
'Simple' (once you understand it) but effective.
Well done!
thanks man! Yeah I was confused at the example Ceave gave in his video, I didn't think it really showed the true power of this trick
The possibilities generally go way beyond that... On / Off Switches create so many more possibilities... not just "Anti Key Death Contraptions" or stuff like that.
Just give it some time and you'll understand what I mean.
I personally like the risk of true endings on Barb’s pink coin levels, it was so satisfying saving the Yoshi in Braveheart
Eh I feel the opposite of the risk of wasting a few hours just to do double shell jump but props to you if you risk it!
I tought this would be impossible for me to understand this, but you explained it well :)
Haha and I was worried that it would be impossible to explain clearly
Same
Thank you for posting this. Though I wouldn't have been able to implement it in the last level I made anyway, I might be able to use it for a new one I'm working on!
Hell yeah man submit me a level with this setup if you make one!
@@DannyBPlays For sure! It'll be a while because it's in early development but as soon as it's finished I'll send it over for sure. 👍
There’s a funny illusion at 10:50, the circle covers the border of the lip of the pipe, making the lip look like it isn’t there
good eye
r/TIHI
good vid. Note that you should block off the challenge rooms upon respawning after key death. If the player doesn't notice the level is different after key death, going through a challenge room successfully will seal the key death for good, circumventing the mechanism.
Also, to fully avoid key death, a safety coin is still technically needed (so you can't die by time-out between CP1/CP2). Depends on the level layout, but this is more of a technicality.
That is a great point! Damn I wish I thought about that.
This video is seriously helpful. Thanks!
awesome to hear, thanks!
Also, what's your maker ID?
Very awesome video man. Hope people start implementing this in their levels.
Everytime you say "on screen" you actually mean "loaded". Saying "on screen" is problematic becuase everything above you (in horizontal areas) and 4 tiles off to the left and right also get loaded eventhough they are (when youre exact) off screen.
Yup
as a ceave fan, I can tell you...
Yup.
@@peppermint_8 It's surprisingly simple!
@@constendo Hooray!
no, not loaded as the whole area is loaded but not active, below also, local but
Well explained, my dude.
Thanks man, I honestly tried hard and I know it's a confusing concept
A very easy to understand explanation of something that many people need. You deserve more view.
thanks! I know it was a complicated thing to explain and I really did my best to be clear and not confusing, glad to hear that I succeeded for the most part
Awesome video, was extremely helpful!
I used this contraption in my Pink Coins in the Heavens level.
In this level I uploaded just today (Jan. 12, 2024), I ended up using 85 extra one-ways.
This was already a thing in SMM1, but we didn't know this concept of red coins counting in the enemie total number, so it was much more complex
Cool yeah I figured it might exist in SMM1 but it wasn't able to be used effectively
@@DannyBPlays It was more difficult to set up, but there were a few levels that got it working in a relatively player-friendly manner. The reason such levels didn't appear in SMM2 is that they relied on the anti-key check (forcing the player to press up in front of a locked door and killing them if they went through it--such as if they had a key they weren't supposed to have). This worked in SMM1 because pushing up even slightly on the analog stick would still cause you to go through the door, but in SMM2, if you push the stick partway up, you can perform the required action (climbing a vine, throwing an item up, etc.) without going through the door, even if you have a key.
Since then, people have been able to find some limited alternatives for anti-key checks in SMM2, but they're not compatible with pink coin levels. Thus the "final boss" setup was rendered impossible... until now.
I can never undesand ceave bu u made me undesand him
Haha thanks, this was REALLY hard to explain and not be confusing. I re-wrote my script many times
You can't understand English.
Thanks a lot this helped. I put a boss fight but I realized there could be key death. Thanks again!😍
A real video from DannyB Plays? That's a shocker. No but I'm sure this video will be great I haven't watched it yet but I can't wait hope you start making videos again as they were what made me subscribe to your channel and not the streams, keep up the good work :)
Yeah boiii I've been lazy as F but I really want to get back to making a video once every week or so when I have something interesting to talk about
@@DannyBPlays cool hope you can do that, I also watched the video it helped me understand how to use the pink coins I might use it as a level idea in the future thanks for the video !
4:50 "However, for some strange reason, the game counts these towards the entity limit."
It's not as strange as some would think. They WERE counted as enemies in SMM1, making the 100 enemy limit per subworld even stricter. They were given their own limit of up to 100 in SMM2, but they retain some properties from SMM1, the aforementioned entity limit for currently loaded enemies.
I say "some strange reason" because they're non-moving items that are just semi-solids in different directions so it seems weird to me that they would count towards the limit. I'm fine with it counting towards the limit, I just think it's weird
Uhhh...novel alert :D btw I love this video and the tech described. Great job.
So I've been building this non-linear pink-coin level with a final challenge, utilizing the keydeath-prevention tech illustrated here, and I think I found a problem with the system.
When the player first arrives-or respawns-in the hub room, the muncher drops on the note block, then bounces back up, landing on the cloud block. If the player goes through one of the challenges, hits the save room, and then comes back into the hub without dying, the muncher will still be on the cloud block, and won't drop, which is why, in the video, we are instructed to ensure that the on/off state is set to blue:solid in order to reenter the hub room.
But if the player dies (or times out) after hitting the saveroom checkpoint but before hitting the hub room checkpoint, when the player respawns in the saveroom, the muncher won't be on top of the cloud block in the hub room anymore. You're then forced to ensure the on/off state is set to blue:solid in order to reenter the hub room, but now the muncher is not held by the cloud block so it drops down, triggering the noteblock, the entity limit isn't full, and thus the on/off switch is hit, setting the on/off state to blue:intangible.
The point I'm bringing up doesn't actually deal with the entity limit, only the on/off state, and the position of the muncher that drops onto the noteblock. Remember that when you leave the save room, you have to ensure the on/off state is set to blue:solid. Here's the two scenarios:
1) You are in the hub room, the mechanism goes off, and switches the state to blue:solid. The muncher that originally dropped down onto the noteblock is now resting above the cloud block. You go through a challenge, hit the save room, and then return to the hub room. The muncher is still resting above the cloud block, but you have been required to set the state to blue:solid in order to leave the save room, so the key is still blocked off.
2) Same as before, except after you hit the checkpoint in the save room, but before you reenter the hub room, you die/time-out. When you respawn in the save room, you are required to set the on/off state to blue:solid in order to exit and return to the hub room. Except now, when you reenter the hub room, the muncher is no longer resting above the cloud block, because this type of state is not saved with a checkpoint. It drops down, hitting the note block, the entity limit is not full, so the second muncher spawns, hits the bomb, and the on/off state is switched to blue:intangible.
So here's my fix (check imgur for 2m1RcvI.jpg). It seems to work. If you enter the hub room from the save room, you are required to set the on/off state to blue:solid, and the muncher will not spawn. I also added to the set up so it gives you the key (after keydeath) automatically, playing the sfx, so there's less room for confusion.
The only concern now is aesthetic. I set my course up so the contraption is offscreen, but the muncher killed by the dotted-line block cartwheels onscreen. Killing the muncher with a second dotted-line block is required because the cloud block (that previously prevented the muncher from bouncing incessantly on the noteblock) has been replaced by the dotted-line block (which is used to prevent the muncher from spawning). This dotted-line block becomes solid after the state is switched, and I can't think of another way to stop the muncher from bouncing incessantly. It's minor, imo, though I do wish it didn't have to happen.
Okay, I had to make one more change, as the "incessant bouncing" would occur after keydeath when utilizing the previous setup. Please check i.imgur.com/H08iVqW.jpg to see my newly fixed setup. Again, this setup also: 1) Automatically gives the player the key after experiencing keydeath, and 2) Is hidden offscreen. I'm open if anyone has any ideas for how to prevent the muncher from needing to be cartwheeled onscreen (as described at the end of the novel, above) to assist with the aesthetics of being able to hide the mechanism altogether.
Good
Explanation 😊
1:11 I see why I have to do that now
this video is amazing! such a detailed explanation on a topic i thought id never understand. thanks so much dannyB - definitely gonna make a level with this :)
thanks glad you liked it! and nice level that you submitted on my stream too!
This is a true game changer!
Thanks, that was really well explained
I have three issues with this:
1) ppl will make the jankiest setups with this, by which I mean the blue block might still be solid if you get key death;
2) could be hard to de-cheese (that's a creator's problem, but still);
and more importantly 3) because you don't have to do all the challenges 3 times without dying, seems possible to set it up in a way that I can upload the level without doing the challenges at all, possibly making the level unbeatable (by doing one or more of the challenges unbeatable).
I could be wrong in all this, but that's my first impression.
You will still have to complete all the challenges without dying at least once in order to upload the level. That means that even in the absolute worst-case scenario--even if you _try_ to make the level impossible to beat from a checkpoint--the player will still be able to beat the level by starting over from the beginning and doing the same things you did during the first clear check.
As for your other points, it's the creator's responsibility to implement this in a good way. There will probably be a lot of people who fail to do so, but that's typical of every setup in Mario Maker.
To address your concerns:
1) That's on the creator to make sure it works right. I explained the 3 scenarios to test so if they get it wrong, it's on them
2) That's also on the creator to decheese. They could just not have any switches in the level and there'd be no cheese possibility but if they do have switches, they just have to be cautious
3) It only saves you from doing the challenges 3 times, there'd be no way to upload the level without going through it twice
great tutorial
Thanks!
Thank you, you explained better than Ceave :p
Thank you I figured I would try my hand at explaining in a slightly different way and hopefully it was helpful
Yayyyy new video!
Haha yayyy finally!
Phew. Been agonizing over this for days now. I'm not sure how I can do this on my level, hut at least I have something to aim for now.
I know this is quite an old video, but I haven’t had much luck finding any other resources on this. Apart from straight-up placing a Checkpoint behind a locked door/Warp Box, is there a way to make an Anti-Key Death contraption in the 3D World style?
spikeball
No tenía idea de esas cosas
Explicas bastante bien
gracias! lo siento que no tengo una traduccion en espanol
@@DannyBPlaysno problem
Does anyone know if there’s a way to hide the mechanism?
I honestly think this setup with bypassing entity limits seems annoying. I'm sure there's much more simpler & easier setups than defying editor restrictions/limits.
Nope, sorry but this is the only way that isn't cheese-able. There is another way to do this but it's cheeseable by running out the timer, so I didn't want to include it
How about just putting a noteblock under the checkpoint thats 1/2 under a semi solid otherwise unreachable without taking a death? The noteblock can include a muncher that can activate something, or can include an extra key, while the noteblock would bounce you back up passed the semi solid. The only way this is cheeseable is again from time out, or otherwise from a pit, spikes, or a boss battle.
This set up shown in the video is NO different than what I have explained here because it also has to do with taking a death after a checkpoint, just a different way to do it.
@@N64Mario Yeah but this set up is 100% uncheesable as long as you don't use on/off in your level. Like you said your design has like 4 ways to cheese it.
It's an unfortunate truth but a lot of contraptions these days utilize entity limits. It's not really an uncommon thing anymore.
Excellent explanation !!!
Thank you!
Woah, this is so cool, I will have to try and make a coin level with this idea in it, cool video!
Yes please do it thatd be awesome and then submit it to me!
The alternative: Checkpoint after the keydoor. (LOL)
that doesn't fit with the infinite CP setup. You need to use both CPs to do the pink coin challenge levels so you can't have a CP after the keydoor, that would require 3 CPs
I always thought the coins were red
same here. R.I.P. red coins :'(
@@DannyBPlays pink They look more like pepperoni red lol
Pro tip: put a sideways pipe just above the Pink Coin (like in this picture: twitter.com/Stevmc499/status/1192368979018338304 ) to only have to playtest the level once rather than twice AND to prevent timer key death from after the other checkpoint.
ohhh that is super sneaky but that layout looks a bit off, the muncher needs a 1-block gap between it and the noteblock because it needs time to fall before it hits it. Though this setup may also work, I dunno
@@DannyBPlays
It seems to work in my level. I adapted it so that you go a different route when you are playing the level to the one you go when you die. It's a bit hard to explain, but here is the code if you want to see what I mean: TRV-V00-JBG
I actually did something similar on my peach’s icy castle level but a lot simpler in the room with the second checkpoint to exit the area with each door and pink coin you must make the on off block off then you get the cp and go to the pipe thus immediately get the other cp (no possible way to die) at the end you go through the area again but this time the on off block is on thus the pipe is blocked and a second way (to the boss) open below the cp (important that this can only happen when block is on as otherwise the actual checkpoint part won’t work) now when the player dies after this point they can go through the passage to the boss again! Sry if it was badly explained just wanted to share how I did something similar!
Second!
Or you know you could just have 1 checkpoint in the level and if the checkpoint is in the same sub world as the door just trap the player in a room when they go in it and then make them go to the other sub world with a pipe then put a checkpoint there and then you can have a boss battle and you won’t have to restart. 😀
Me: shows this to my math teacher
My math teacher: hello class today we are going to be playing super mario maker 2
I thought they were red coins lol
Funny you say that, I ALWAYS called them red so I made sure to put the "pink coin" label at the start of my video so that people knew why I was calling them pink
You could just put a checkpoint after a locked door
this setup is for the infinite CP setup and you have to use both CPs to do the setup so there isn't a 3rd CP available to use
Yeeaaaaaah no... Ima make a troll level
*IMPORTANT!*
It's a good idea to block access to challenge rooms after a key death using red dotted-line blocks, just to foolproof against dumb players. Because if they touch CP2 after key death it ruins this setup.
Really nice contraption though, subbed!
I agree, I originally planned to do a follow-up video after I did this one to show best practices but since it's so complicated and rarely used, it didn't seem feasible to work. But you are absolutely right
Really cool. I think you can do that in the main world and subworld and you only have to clear check the level once to upload it, and you don't have yo check wich CP is being used by the player 🧐
You still have to close check it twice because when you start from the checkpoint in the sub world and then go thru the pipe to where the first coin is, your fall to the coin is far enough that the munchers hits the noteblock first
So basically you add a feature by exploiting the game.
How do you make this in 3d world style though? (Pleased tell me or link a Video)
How do you capitalize? Use a spikeball.
Your explain is easy to understand!
(I'm sorry in poor English＞＜)
thank you!
Nice thank you so much
No problem
NICE Video
Nice comment!
Is there an alternative that you can use for 3d world?
as in an alternative to one ways
threed world? It’s 3D World. The simplest is upward with soft floors, then downward with donut blocks, then flankward with pow blocks and thwomps or somewhat slantedly with blue track blocks.
I made a level with this mechanic so can you pls play this? P1V-XQ1-VNF
I won't play it but I'm okay with you posting this ID since it uses the mechanic. I usually delete comments with level ID's but this one fits the video so it's okay
DannyB Plays oh sorry
Btw, I gave credit to you in the description🤗
Nice but in my Level I need this from the other site
Just one dislike LOL
Bro exists 💀
I bet Danny will never reply to this comment
yeah that guy is a jerk