The Attack That Could Disrupt The Whole Internet - Computerphile

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  • čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
  • Audible free book: www.audible.com/computerphile
    DoS or Denial of Service Attacks are one thing, but Amplified Denial of Service Attacks could threaten the internet itself. Tom Scott explains what they are.
    More from Tom Scott: / enyay and / tomscott
    / computerphile
    / computer_phile
    This video was filmed and edited by Sean Riley.
    Computerphile is a sister project to Brady Haran's Numberphile. See the full list of Brady's video projects at: bit.ly/bradychannels

Komentáře • 493

  • @razielhamalakh9813
    @razielhamalakh9813 Před 10 lety +6261

    I was gonna tell you guys a joke about UDP, but you might not get it.

  • @ericsarason9099
    @ericsarason9099 Před 8 lety +3733

    Somebody should make a video. 3 guys are sitting in a room.
    Guy 1 puts on a mask that looks like guy 3
    Guy 1 whispers "Monlist" to guy 2
    Guy 2 throws a huge stack of paper at guy 3

  • @JH1010IsAwesome
    @JH1010IsAwesome Před 9 lety +3350

    I once tried a denial of service attack on my friend. I knew he has a 32 bit computer, so I tried to send him a Facebook message 2^32 characters long thinking that it would crash his computer (and possibly lead to a blue screen of death). My computer crashed before I could send the message.

  • @SafetyLucas
    @SafetyLucas Před 10 lety +3574

    And I though I was scary pulling a flash drive out without safely ejecting it.........

  • @GtaRockt
    @GtaRockt Před 8 lety +1880

    Tom Scott is to computerphile what James Grime is to numberphile

  • @spazmaster6731
    @spazmaster6731 Před 3 lety +280

    A funny story from fall semester during the 2020 pandemic: because my university's classes were all online, one of my professors set up a website on a server he physically owned in his basement that he would upload assignments on. Turns out that was a bad idea because after every class when he would give us this week's assignment, he would get kicked offline from every student downloading from his server at the same time.

  • @Lttlemoi
    @Lttlemoi Před 10 lety +477

    This reminds me of a project we had to do for University.
    We had to build a database driven web application. However, in order to fill our database, we were required to get our data from websites. In the end, it turned out that at least 5 groups were mass scraping the same website during a few weekends. Even though we never meant it to be a DOS attack, the poor server was in trouble.

  • @greenstonegecko
    @greenstonegecko Před 4 lety +300

    "What time is it?"
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*
    Server: *You want to know the time?*

  • @mvl71
    @mvl71 Před 8 lety +688

    "Monlist!". The force of his disgust towards this command cracked me up no end! You just got yourself a new subscriber. Well done!

  • @SleekMouse
    @SleekMouse Před 9 lety +325

    "How can you protect your servers? The easiest way to update to NTP version 4.2.7, which removes the monlist command entirely. If upgrading is not an option, you can start the NTP daemon with noquery enabled in the NTP conf file. This will disable access to mode 6 and 7 query packetts (which includes monlist).
    By disabling monlist, or upgrading so the the command is no longer there, not only are you protecting your network from unwanted reconnaissance, but you are also protecting your network from inadvertently being used in a DDoS attack."

  • @Buzzy913
    @Buzzy913 Před 8 lety +1149

    Why don't we just remove Monlist?

  • @BlackhartFilms
    @BlackhartFilms Před 10 lety +675

    Tom Scott is by far my favorite person they interview on Computerphile

    • @5nefarious
      @5nefarious Před 10 lety +78

      Yeah. It's especially funny how worked up and passionate he gets about some things.

  • @Koseiku
    @Koseiku Před 9 lety +1295

    haha i love this guy. he is always so energetic.

    • @tomlloyd2603
      @tomlloyd2603 Před 9 lety +208

      Koseiku he has his own youtube channel - Tom Scott
      He's brilliant :D

    • @eagle56786
      @eagle56786 Před 9 lety +37

      Tom Lloyd Ha. I thought he looked familiar.

  • @Br3ttM
    @Br3ttM Před rokem +41

    That "monlist" command sounds like something that exists for debugging, and should require special permission to use. Even without the DoS attack part, it seems like a massive privacy/security violation to just let anyone anywhere ask for a list of everyone who has accessed something. My guess is that if it wasn't just an accident that it was left in, they left it in because removing it would break something. "We can't fix it because something else needs it to stay exactly the same" is a thing in programming.

  • @bluekissedgalaxies
    @bluekissedgalaxies Před 8 lety +243

    i love how into it tom gets with the drawings

  • @cebsaid2932
    @cebsaid2932 Před 4 lety +67

    I like to imagine someone setting this up but forgetting to spoof the return and destroying themselves

  • @bluephreakr
    @bluephreakr Před 9 lety +321

    I love how angry Tom gets over this subject. The _passion!_

  • @DeadEye935
    @DeadEye935 Před 10 lety +89

    I love this guy. He always sounds so excited when he's talking.

    • @n6i9k4a
      @n6i9k4a Před 10 lety +15

      His passion is addicting.

    • @stephenrowley4171
      @stephenrowley4171 Před 10 lety +20

      n6i9k4a He has the rare talent that he's passionate about a subject but also has the ability to communicate that passion to the layman.

  • @thisisnootnoots
    @thisisnootnoots Před 4 lety +74

    "I approve this stream being sent to me"

  • @Trirosmos
    @Trirosmos Před 9 lety +232

    All of Computerphile's videos are cool and all, but....
    Tom is just amazing!

  • @newgoredan303
    @newgoredan303 Před 8 lety +70

    The fax paper to computerphile is like the brown paper to numberphile. Same for Tom Scott and James Grime

  • @Max-bh8tg
    @Max-bh8tg Před 8 lety +33

    More of tom please, his enthusiasm keeps you glued to the screen.

  • @PelegTsadok
    @PelegTsadok Před 10 lety +123

    This guy makes me feel bad for a computer...

  • @MrVicke03
    @MrVicke03 Před 7 lety +71

    I think that just happended...

  • @siloPIRATE
    @siloPIRATE Před 8 lety +220

    7:06 what do the other people in the building you're in think when they see you randomly scribbling and shouting 206 times? 😂

  • @ahmedabdelmalik-3050
    @ahmedabdelmalik-3050 Před 2 lety +4

    knowledge is priceless

  • @Catnugget76
    @Catnugget76 Před 10 lety +10

    More videos with this guy please. He explains everything so well

  • @HassanSelim0
    @HassanSelim0 Před 10 lety +16

    Tom Scott is back on Computerphile! YAY! :)

  • @Quasihamster
    @Quasihamster Před 10 lety +292

    amplified distributed DoS? Yep, I get it. When you try to kick the internet's butt, be sure to wear ADIDoS!

  • @345derder
    @345derder Před 10 lety +8

    I swear this guy
    I could just listen to him all day

  • @callum3651
    @callum3651 Před 7 lety +51

    ok wtf is there to dislike about this video??

  • @Charbthabowz123
    @Charbthabowz123 Před 9 lety +117

    This man, should have his own T.V show!

    • @Ultima2876
      @Ultima2876 Před 9 lety +53

      Charb thabowz He does, it's called Gadget Geeks.

  • @stalingra11
    @stalingra11 Před 10 lety +2

    @DerpTrolling on twitter currently holds the world record for the biggest DoS attack ever, it maxed out at over 420Gb/s and was against a company who wanted to test their infrastructure...They also delayed the customization packs for CoD by knocking the DNS servers that send the files, as wekk as every single LoL server, which is why they have had so much down time recently...

  • @jochemvanl
    @jochemvanl Před 10 lety +15

    Very very good explanation!
    I work for a company with a reasonable sized network (couple of gbits) and own datacenter. For a while now we get multiple abuse reports a day for exactly this type of attack. Sending in these abuse reports is actually useful, as we will block customers after receiving too many reports and not seeing any action on their part.

    • @Chrispmiller84
      @Chrispmiller84 Před 10 lety

      It sounds like you work for a server/VPS provider. If that's the case, you should look into some automated network monitoring software. Depending on your infrastructure there's most likely free ways of doing so, and if you're company's a decent size, it could afford the cost of some of the better solutions. In the long run, you'd save money from having to manually deal with those situations. And who knows... Maybe management would be appreciative of your recommendation. Might get a nice bonus/raise? :)

    • @jochemvanl
      @jochemvanl Před 10 lety +2

      Chris Miller thanks for the suggestion. I might just look into that.

    • @tech-kyle
      @tech-kyle Před 10 lety +1

      An an employee of a local ISP, we've been seeing these NTP attacks on a high-bandwidth customer of ours for some time now. We definitely notice. I believe we've simply blocked NTP from outside sources and are only allowing a select few popular ones, but that's slightly above me.

  • @UnknowinglyDerpy
    @UnknowinglyDerpy Před 5 lety +7

    Meanwhile in captions: [SCRIBBLES FURIOUSLY]

  • @everaven7925
    @everaven7925 Před 6 lety +13

    I really want to know where Tom can still find Dot Matrix Printing Paper.

  • @ashwith
    @ashwith Před 10 lety +29

    Please do a video explaining the heartbleed bug.

  • @jaronfeld123
    @jaronfeld123 Před 8 lety +3

    I just found a new favorite channel. This guy loves what he does.

  • @TheDoubleBee
    @TheDoubleBee Před 10 lety +2

    Two things I'd like to point out:
    1. You can spoof the IPv4/IPv6 address for any IP-based protocol (TCP, ICMP, IGMP, etc.), not just UDP.
    2. It's the ISP's job to drop packets that have a spoofed source address as they know exactly where the packet came from (based on MAC address), and even the big routing services have some level of detecting whether or not a source address is spoofed.

  • @Bluelemonzz
    @Bluelemonzz Před 10 lety +2

    Thanks for explaining the difference between TCP and UDT. I didn't know it was that simple. Now I know why the setting on my surveillance system is the way it is

  • @Lolloz89
    @Lolloz89 Před 10 lety +9

    Actually you can do a couple of things:
    1) Replication
    2) Distributed Caching
    3) Content Delivery Networks (a.g. Akamai)
    Theese are all expensive things, but if you are under a DDoS attack, you probably have enough money to pay for these services :)

  • @thesickandwounded
    @thesickandwounded Před 10 lety +8

    love when this guy explains!

  • @kapin0s
    @kapin0s Před 10 lety +1

    Thanks Tom! Another great video with a really interesting and also terrifying topic.

  • @MZZenyl
    @MZZenyl Před 10 lety +60

    Really good video. I love Tom, he's so enthusiastic! :) Also, he talks about topics that I find very interesting (not that I'd actually follow any of his "tips", I just find it interesting). :)

  • @Edgewalker001
    @Edgewalker001 Před 8 lety +4

    I actually remember that back during my school days there was this script you could run called a flooder that did pretty much this, and if you picked the right port to send traffic to on those old windows computers they not only lost all internet connections but also instantly crashed to bluescreen. I remember having a lot of fun with THAT on my school's intranet... =p

  • @lloydnone
    @lloydnone Před 10 lety +7

    And that is something you might not have known!
    Great Video! Thank you very much!

  • @gadgetpilipinas
    @gadgetpilipinas Před 9 lety +1

    Thanks a lot for this, Haley Joel Osment! Seriously, this is highly informative and worth sharing.

  • @THEGREATONE420
    @THEGREATONE420 Před 8 lety +1

    so many different attack vectors exist in the tcp/ip stack. we are sitting here talking about host to host but the real fun begins when you start attacking the routers and routing protocols.. not that I'm in to that but the potential is huge.

  • @caradu9973
    @caradu9973 Před 9 lety

    He is an excellent orator and teacher!There is a lot I don't understand until explained the right way... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. Thank You!

  • @BlackSkorpion0
    @BlackSkorpion0 Před 10 lety +1

    This is a great video, He explains the concepts very well.

  • @shackelfro
    @shackelfro Před 10 lety

    I absolutely love these videos. Tom is the man!

  • @vinkuu
    @vinkuu Před 10 lety +1

    I've been a programmer of web apps for the last 15 years, and I like to consider myself more security-aware than the common developer, but this was actually new information for me. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.

  • @vipermagi5499
    @vipermagi5499 Před 10 lety +5

    I love this video because the only way I know of to truly raise security in this very attacker centric world is to raise the base knowledge of the average user.

  • @stevensong6909
    @stevensong6909 Před 6 lety

    There is such amazing content on this channel.

  • @Orxenhorf
    @Orxenhorf Před 10 lety +2

    Where the pressure really need to get put is on Internet Service Providers to do egress filtering on the outer edges of their networks, and ingress filtering on anyone they sell or rent a block of addresses to. That would actually reduce spoofing instead of just chasing it from protocol to protocol.

  • @legendofFranktheTank
    @legendofFranktheTank Před 6 lety +2

    ive watched so much computer file, tom scott, matt and tom, and ashens, that youtube seems to genuinely think im british, and is now showing me ads for companies that dont exist in america

  • @wisteela
    @wisteela Před 9 lety

    Great info, and bonus points for the retro computer paper.

  • @HampshireBrony
    @HampshireBrony Před 10 lety +3

    When you started talking about TCP vs UDP, I was thinking of a new name for the reflected DoS via SYN flood.
    That NTP thing is pure evil! Sounds like a command that was put in to an early ntpd for remote testing/diagnostic/logging and ended up staying in

  • @davidsweeney111
    @davidsweeney111 Před 10 lety +1

    I have to say I lean more to the chemistry side of the Brady universe, but I have to say I am completely riveted to watching this guy, he is so enthusiastic about his subject and so interesting to listen too, more please!

  • @skimask13
    @skimask13 Před 10 lety

    Great video and thanks for the book recommendation!

  • @Sam-rk6wo
    @Sam-rk6wo Před 7 lety +25

    Ah. Well, we're seeing attacks of ~600/700mbps right now. Possibly closer to 1TB/s attacks on the DNS servers. Pretty scary and interesting stuff!

  • @TechLaboratories
    @TechLaboratories Před 10 lety

    Tom, insightful as always!

  • @TheRussianhippie
    @TheRussianhippie Před 10 lety

    computerphile needs to have tom Scott on more, his videos are great!

  • @SpringgyHD
    @SpringgyHD Před 9 lety +259

    My IP is 192.168.1.1. a lot of people say they have the same IP but i thought IP's were only for one router/household. help?

  • @MrVljacks
    @MrVljacks Před 10 lety

    I love this guy..... so simply explained, well done...

  • @Systemist
    @Systemist Před 9 lety

    Loving this channel! Thanks for the great vids! :)

  • @garenyo
    @garenyo Před 10 lety

    i really love this channel and the explanation of Tom Scott is really great. No matter what topic he is telling.

  • @louisburke8927
    @louisburke8927 Před 10 lety

    All the experts are so well spoken.

  • @JasperJanssen
    @JasperJanssen Před 7 lety +7

    Took 'em two years to get to terabit level attacks.

  • @AdamOzkan
    @AdamOzkan Před 10 lety

    I love his enthusiasm!

  • @brianpso
    @brianpso Před 10 lety

    Wow! I don't really know what it is, but it's been a while since I watched this channel because of college stuff, and I feel like something changed on the transictions or the camera motion, that really make me get more concentrated on the video. I just loved his explanation, thanks so much for this video.

  • @BhargaviCN
    @BhargaviCN Před 4 lety +4

    The person who inserted "MONLIST" command in the protocol, is THE Culprit/Hacker! While misguiding you as "This is one useless command", he got way of hacking forever! Otherwise "last 600 users? Really? 600?", come on, you don't need Sherlock Holmes!

  • @leocossham
    @leocossham Před 10 lety

    Amazing video, well explained and extremely interesting; subscribed.

  • @carterknox3096
    @carterknox3096 Před 6 lety

    Wow I just found this channel and I love it.

  • @jacobniebloom
    @jacobniebloom Před 9 lety

    Such a great video. Thank you!

  • @kalevader
    @kalevader Před 10 lety +1

    This guy is both really fun and really informative. So... more Tome Scott?

  • @JuanchosMRL
    @JuanchosMRL Před 10 lety

    That passion of his... Awesome video!!!

  • @IanM0rris
    @IanM0rris Před 10 lety

    How did I not know about this beautiful channel?!?!

  • @twomorestars
    @twomorestars Před 10 lety

    Tom Scott is awesome. Thanks!

  • @piecake9173
    @piecake9173 Před 10 lety +46

    Woah...poor paper...

  • @l0stmarble454
    @l0stmarble454 Před rokem

    Thank you Tom! You make great tutorial videos! :)

  • @maxkillers26
    @maxkillers26 Před 8 lety +16

    So, if the whole entire world went on the same webpage, would that webpage crash cause they're to many people on the same site?

  • @StoryMakerZ86
    @StoryMakerZ86 Před 10 lety +1

    Best video yet!! and easy even for me to understand!!!!

  • @akash.trehan
    @akash.trehan Před 8 lety +5

    How did Tom get "206" times the data....Also "206 x ?" What is the basic thing whose 206 times is being sent?

  • @nadehi18
    @nadehi18 Před 7 lety +5

    Flash forward three years and we've seen 620Gbps attacks with zero amplification...

  • @oliverguy3121
    @oliverguy3121 Před 9 lety +4

    Note that the title says "disrupt" not "take down"

  • @petertimowreef9085
    @petertimowreef9085 Před 8 lety +15

    Why is it so hard to differentiate between real genuine data and just spam data that's ment to overload your servers?

  • @mrdeadguy34
    @mrdeadguy34 Před 9 lety +2

    My internet died when you talked about you're Internet getting denied :/

  • @flastable9842
    @flastable9842 Před rokem +2

    In the 8 years since this video's release, has this issue been resolved at all? Even partially?

  • @Pineappletube
    @Pineappletube Před 9 lety

    Well explained. Nice one

  • @antivanti
    @antivanti Před 10 lety +45

    Ah. The good old days when you could take people down with a simple ping. =)

  • @Col_Crunch
    @Col_Crunch Před 10 lety +1

    I would love to see a feature-length Documentary (60-120mins) made by the computerphile guys! I imagine that it would be amazing.

  • @Ledon177
    @Ledon177 Před 10 lety

    This guy really has a natural talent for teaching. I had never been interested in computer science until I started watching his videos.

  • @Sifar_Secure
    @Sifar_Secure Před 7 lety +5

    The concept reminds me of the White Rose character in Mr Robot, with the whole "I hack time" motif.

  • @aaronhsyong2
    @aaronhsyong2 Před 4 lety +1

    Turned Closed Captions on. Saw [furiously scribbling] at 7:03. Nice

  • @23Joe91
    @23Joe91 Před 10 lety +1

    This is really interesting because I've noticed that some sites have been acting strangely last few days

  • @Ryakki
    @Ryakki Před 10 lety

    This is fantastically interesting.

  • @ghelyar
    @ghelyar Před 10 lety +16

    It's not just old tech. There's a flaw in IPv6 that also amplifies.
    This particular NTP attack should just be blocked at the network level. Large NTP servers should not implement monlist and ISPs should not forward it. That only stops this particular attack though.

    • @ghelyar
      @ghelyar Před 10 lety +1

      ***** I would say that in terms of pushing out a fix to ntp servers, it's one of the easier fixes. Most of them will be running the same ntpd and would only need to update it once the fix is committed, and this should be done for the entire ntp.org pool at the very least.
      As for arriving at the borders, if it is blocked by ISPs and backbones it should only affect the connection that the ntp server is on i.e. it shouldn't be blocked at the destination but as close to the source as possible. This could still flood the ntp server's connection, but the ntp server can update its ntpd to fix this.

    • @jochemvanl
      @jochemvanl Před 10 lety

      ghelyar well yes, of course you should block as close to the source as possible. But in case of a DDOS you can only go so far in communicating with upstream providers. Generally you can talk to your transits and peers (although many won't help you with these things), but you can't really go any further up the line.
      Recently I had to communicate with Level3 (a transit provider for where I work) to get a routing issue fixed. It took us 12 hours to finally get them to fix it. Imagine that it takes that long to let them help you in fending off a DDOS.
      Btw, servers in the ntp.org pool are already upgraded. It's very easy to fix (on the most common types (variations of the ntp.org version) you can disable it with a simple config change). But in any case it's always the little and "forgotten" NTP servers that cause problems. Most are hooked up with 100mbit or 1gbit to the internet, so find a couple and you can create enough problems.

  • @StaffanThomen
    @StaffanThomen Před 10 lety +1

    Aww, I expected you to mention amplification attacks in the IRC protocol itself and was disappointed. (CTCP VERSION or INFO for instance) These were all the rage when I just got on to IRCNet.

  • @HadienReiRick
    @HadienReiRick Před 10 lety +1

    Truly, I think the only way to defend against DoS attacks is to improve the protocol itself.
    For instance UDP could handshake every once in a while, with the receiver sending a single "flag" saying that you can continue with the streaming. This will not only stop DoS, but could also save server bandwidth since the server will know that it doesn't need to keep sending packets to a recipient that doesn't want to listen (this would greatly improve the stream quality of sites like Justin, Twitch, Hulu, and Netflix). And the recipient can effortlessly let only one UDP transfer through, or none at all.
    another protocol idea is that when a server receives a request for a large amount of data (TCP), or just always (UDP), it 1st sends a "handshake" confirmation to the destination to make sure they really want it. This solves 2 things as one the server can ignore duplicated requests from the same "source", and again save even more bandwidth if the source turned down the handshake. There may even be a "timeout" flag included so that even the confirmation handshakes themselves aren't spammed. The only way a criminal could bypass this is if they hack the actual servers themselves.