The Myth of the Mound Builders
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2018
- The 19th century myth that continues to claim the heritage of pre-Columbian North Americans today.
The centuries following the renewed 1492 contact between the world's eastern and western hemispheres were devastating for the indigenous peoples of the Americas whose population was continually decimated by imported diseases for which they lacked immunity. By the early 19th century, so few indigenous people remained that European Americans doubted they could have ever built the massive number of earthworks that covered the North American landscape. Instead they created a myth that the mounds must have been built by a lost civilized race that was ultimately exterminated by the American Indians. The most successful telling of this myth is found in Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon. We will look at how the myth of the mound builders evolved and its continuing consequences.
Wow- you have the patience of Job. It must be a tough profession these days when everyone thinks they know more, when everyone assumes that because you're an academic and a historian, that you're operating in bad faith, even though you present history with such an open humility. Anyhow, your lectures are one of the true hidden gems on this platform - I'm learning so much and am truly grateful for the knowledge you share so freely and with such clarity.
Well said my friend
Just to be clear, while other theories have arose in modern times to absolve the Americas of blame for syphilis, the Colombian theory is the most believed one and has the most empirical backing. No one is “responsible” for syphilis but Europeans have been painted as intentional evil doers because of the diseases they brought that some scholars clearly don’t want that negativity directed at natives.
The snake eats the sun on equinox if anyone cares
These people whoever they were created tools and weapons and left them behind.
Here in Vermont many strange megalithic structures were built. These people were creative and carved works of art into the local quartz. They sculpted their portraits adorned with animal images. They were making images of mammoth, serpents and lots of birds. The Connecticut river valley has a long history now mostly forgotten and certainly ignored.
We have too many lights blocking out our view of the night sky.
The crowd interaction is annoying lol did they come to see the lecture or give their own take? 😂
When the old lady wanted to fight was funny.
This moderator really cracks the whip lol ...great lecture!
Get that baby out haha
Well maybe they should provide daycare if they cant tolerate children.
@@chewyjello1 maybe you shouldn’t bring children to an event where they’re expected to be quiet if your children can’t be quiet
He was rather harsh with her. ‘ i think that question is off topic`
@@guib6055 Seems like they have a little history
Thank you for this interesting video!
Wonderful presentation: I learned so much.
Cahokia Mounds near St. Louis is incredible if you ever find yourself in the area :)
I love Cahokia! Monks mound is so big in person. It took my breath away when I first saw it.
I live about 15 miles from Cahokia Mounds great place to visit.
I’ve visited the Serpent Mounds. It’s truly a sight to see!
I am completely mesmerized by your lectures! Thank you for all that you do and the years of work you put in to be able to share this with the common folk. You are an amazing person
Yes we do! They wrote and spoke a reformed Egyptian/Hebrew language. They were called the Nephites after thier first King Nephi. They were of Semitic decent and descendants of Joseph of Egypt!
I grew up in Indiana near Mounds State Park - used to go there all the time to ride the horses. When I was young had no idea what they meant other than they were small hills that the horse trails went around.
What are the reference materials?
Check out Wayne May on Hopewell mounds.
I love Wayne!!!!🎉
I like to watch him when I get tired of shows like ancient aliens.
The city, of Marietta Ohio, is paved with bricks, from "the Sacred Way." Cisler & Putnam tore down the walls, made a park & some bricks. How many thousand baskets of mud did it take?
Excellent lecture, very informative yet never dull.
Sir, respectfully, these lectures are bussin!
Another thing I learned from watching these videos is that you guys have AC problems
It's good to ask, What did Joseph Know. What is the cultural history at the time of Joseph Smith.
I've never been Mormon/LDS but I have some fascination with the religion and the Book of Mormon because of the context they came out of (same thing with my interest in other sacred texts like the Bible and the Quran), I learned a bit about it in some of my archaeology classes and Smith was far from alone when proposing his ideas from what I learned.
this actually goes against the way we know history played out in central america..
And i live right at the narrow at the choke point . Well a few hundred yards from there. I grew up working on the farm that butts up to the backside of the fort above the river
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutelo_language
Fort Christanna in 1716, and a few assorted terms recorded by colonial sources, such as John Lederer, Abraham Wood, Hugh Jones, and William Byrd II. Hale noted the testimony of colonial historian Robert Beverley, Jr.--that the dialect of the Occaneechi, believed to be related, was used as a lingua franca by all the tribes in the region of whatever linguistic stock, and it was known to the chiefs, "conjurers," and priests of all tribes. These shamans used it in their ceremonies, just as Roman Catholic priests in Europe and the US used Latin. Hale's grammar also noted further comparisons to Latin and Ancient Greek. He remarked on the classical nature of Tutelo's rich variety of verb tenses available to the speaker, including what he remarked as an 'aorist' perfect verb tense, ending in "-wa".
Occoneechee Forbes her slave name, Occoneechee was not her name it was her tribe she was from, she was a direct descendant of the great mother of the Occoneechee tribe taken by the British Virginia trading company and came back as a Forbes before the 1812 war loss her parents and was sold as a slave
The LAST name (COLON) RUNS LITERALLY EVERYTHING IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
@@claudiaclaudia936 Culo means ass, its in the center of your nalgas, the colon is connected to the culo. Kala means Darkness and time, at the center of our galaxy, a black hole Culo. The rulers from the underworld, who thinks that they are the center of everything, aways creating a big stink. Pray to the gatekeeper Culo, to shut their door.
35:00 kingdoms with castles we call them state Penn's now
I can't watch any type of Centre Place presentation without being simply captivated by stuff I never even knew existed before!!
I can't even hardly fault the live audience thing as a problem. In one way at least it actually enriches the talk!
Would you recommend a book on native american pre-colonization history ?
Charles C Mann 1491 and 1493 are a good place to start if you haven't read those yet.
@@centre-place Your awesome thank you! I'm in love with these mysteries.
The Book of Mormon. It gives an account of the nephites aka mound builders
@@Max-sh2ml The Book of Mormon is a lie.
@@Max-sh2ml the mormon church has never ever claimed this. stop spreading stupid lies.
The Adena were so weird. I heard from good sources (people who studied them) that they were around 7ft tall and had a very strange skull shape. I think that ever since people exaggerated their sizes, legitimate people have skipped their appearance to avoid being associated with the nuts. It's pretty amazing if they're that morphologically different and a shame that it's seemingly too risky or whatever to talk about. Maybe they shrunk a little after transitioning to the three sisters lifestyle, it's fascinating.
Tremendous lecture, shocking and revealing by the lengthy discussion at the end. The point is not the mounds, its not even about the Book of Mormon, it's not about what happened long ago or a sham in the early 1800s, it's about now, it's about the suppression of "The Myth of the Mound Builders", its about how all school children in the USA and virtually everywhere in the World are taught that Mount Rushmore is a significant American summer tourist destination. "Have you seen the Grand Canyon?" is a question about the wonders of the USA, (a drive through Yellowstone is "patriotic") and yet, you have to go out of your way, by chance, come upon a reference to the Cahokia Mounds even now. The Myth of Europeans or a lost Tribe of Israel building the Mounds was the prevailing concept in the expansionist period (to paraphrase John in the lecture) and this is not taught in American Schools, is absent from conversation when tearing down Klan-era Confederate Monuments to raise consciousness of how deep the problem of social justice runs? Mention "Manifest Destiny" and you find yourself having to explain it. We're worried that we are being manipulated by social media? Talk about manipulation! Its taken until this past decade to arrive at the term "white privilege" and it sparks an immediate emotional response. Important lecture, bravo, Centre Place. White guilt is not the point either, its humanity.
"White privilege" exists only inside your thoroughly washed brain.
Why do these talks not have the speaker's name in the description?
{:-:-:}
I think his name is John Hamer
@@stevenv6463
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your professional approach to these topics. I am thoroughly enjoying your lectures.
21:12 Correction: "American heritage-still present in the genomes of some Siberians today-adds to a scattering of archeological evidence suggesting that North Americans were in contact with their northern Asian neighbors for thousands of years before Europeans arrived."
MAYANS had ancient Chinese Dragons in the Crystal palace in the middle of what is known as MEXICO... AMERICA IS THE OLD WORLD
What’s interesting is for my time with people of the Cherokee Nation and other current tribes is that none of them claim to have built the mounds and they refer to those people as much different from them almost as Europeans
31:00 minutes the lady is naughty
Does any nation today have a 100% complete list of nations and tribes? No they do not.. A king can't count his citizens or know everything that goes on under his own roof. To say where men have planted their feet through time is vanity. Their feet are like the wind mysterious. Try to list all the kings of earth back then and who had boats where or what the land mass was according to the sea level.
I don’t know who William Cullen Bryant was but without knowing, he recited the history of the mound builders which Mormons embrace in the Book of Mormon. That is strange.
It's even more strange that a supposed educated person doesn't know who William Cullen Bryant is.
Actually most Mormons are not even aware of the mound builder ideas. In fact, when they learn about it often members have a faith crisis (justifiably I say)
@@sukt00 is it evidence for the book really? The mounds were clearly around before the Book of Mormon was first written down and so were the European mythology about mound builders and a race of people who had been overwhelmed by the "Red man".
I could imagine that anachronisms of older 18th century settler mythology ending up in the book of Mormon to describe who the mound builders were might shake your belief.
@30:25 You skipped over Tristán de Luna y Arellano (1510 - September 16, 1573[1]) was a Spanish explorer and Conquistador of the 16th century Born in Borobia, Spain, to a noble family he came to New Spain, and was sent on an expedition to colonize Florida in 1559. He was a cousin of the viceroy of New Spain, Antonio de Mendoza, and of Juana de Zúñiga, wife of Hernán Cortés.[2] In August of that year, he established an ephemeral colony at modern-day Pensacola, the earliest multi-year European settlement in the continental United States.
I live and grew up in moundsville w.v home of the largest conicle mound.something is wrong with the written history of the Adena people.in the past bad guessing bacame truth.it needs a rethink.
They don't want truth you want another side of this it's the Nephis from church of Jesus Christ but they say it can't be even when swords was found they can't have swords.
True it’s the nephites from the Book of Mormon
Im from Charleston, and you sound like a fucking idiot. Just because you are from somewhere doesn't mean you hold some type of special knowledge of it.
Nothing is wrong with history, only YOUR interpretations of FACTS
@@SA-ko7vq I agree with the first part but brutha everything is wrong with our history
At 1:09:08 the woman was ranting about the words of people 200 years ago describing the Indians. It is as if we are righteous to condemn their beliefs towards others based upon our own morality. I wonder if she condemns ancient Romans, Greek, Persian, Muslims and American Indians in the same manner? They all owned slaves, they all took land from their enemies. They all used derogatory words to describe their enemies. They wages brutal wars, sacrificed to their gods. They tortured captives. They all mutilated captives. American history is no different from world history.
She would decry slavery in America yet would be silent about the modern day African slave trade.
And never addresses the problem really. Never provides a solution. Ahh and so it continues eternal
Typical bird-brained "victim" regurgitating what she's been fed.
I remember a hilarious logo and a beer brand when I was driving through Salt Lake City once.
Polygamy Porter. Why have just one?
Got a Joseph Smith joke in there someplace. Enjoy
I live in Salt Lake I don't think we have that anynore but that's awesome lol
@@tophergofer9895 You got me thinking. I just googled it and Wasatch brewing still makes it.
Tastes like ice-cream, idk
Its still around @tophergofer9895
After the lecturer explains the absurdity of the Mormon religion, he then says that he's involved w/ the Mormon Church.
He seems to support the Mormon position on the mound builders. Where’s the absurdity?
@@Icriedtoday No he does not support the Mormon myth of the Moundbuilders. Just because he's from the Mormon Church does not mean that he agrees with the Mormon myths.
He’s not from the Mormon Church. I believe he is a member of the Community of Christ which is an offshoot aside from Mormonism
@@Icriedtoday you didn’t listen to his ending..
@@IAmPeterCole I am surprised this Community of Christ is an offshoot ot the LDS. I followed with interest quite a few of John Hamers lectures and heard him say stuff I rather would expect from AronRa, Richard Carrier or Richard Dawson.
what about the adena people in the book of mormon
Exactly. There are so many things in the Book of Mormon that makes me take a serious look🤷♀️
Amazing 🙃🤸 🤹😃
I been doing deep research on the mound builders and this was AMAZING!
Bryce Pardoe sounds deep you had to let grammar go to the surface as you continue plunging
czcams.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/video.html
Go a little deeper and get over this guys garbage.
@@Veevslav1 Why are you spreading Mormonism?
@@nnez9009 Why aren't you spreading it? Imagine if everyone actually lived the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints culture to its fullest extent. What would the world be like?
As for me, I believe it is true, maybe you should be asking why don't you.
@@Veevslav1 Freemasonry and Mr. Smith, for me, is enough said.
53:15 - Shaheen's equally tone-deaf brother? "... it is important to remember..." 🤔🤔🤔 [laughter ensues from the audience]. My god, these people: you can tell them a mile off now. 🤣
Flood protection
I live in Newark, OH. The first thing that I noticed while visiting the mound is that is clearly made to protect any structure inside the ring of water. It's silly when I see archeologists doing pseudo-science and dwelve into explanations of spiritual angles. It's nothing more than a circular flood ditch. It's still the plains, you know, and the plains get fill with water fast. Also, all nations have a flood myth; the mound builders had it, too.
The Tuscarora means hemp people
Seshat the the ancient Egyptian goddess of wisdom, knowledge, and writing. She was seen as a scribe and record keeper, and her name means she who scrivens (i.e. she who is the scribe), and is credited with inventing writing. She also became identified as the goddess of accounting, architecture, astronomy, astrology, building, mathematics, and surveying.
Her symbol was 7 finger marijuana (hemp) leaf
Y’all always want to call some shit a myth. Y’all need to call the myth of Columbus discovering America!!!!! 💯✊🏼
Yep
he still down playing the truth
I mean, Leif Eiricsson literally beat Chris by centuries.
Great presentation but am largely concerned about the devisive nature of the talk. While seemingly striving toward neutrality, the larger picture is avoided and the perils of history are lost within such context, unfortunately. As an American and as someone who deeply loves history, especially the Ancient people's of America... The Native Americans and the catastrophic consequence of European settlement, I find it most troubling that larger concepts are not explored. Mound Builder cultures are extremely ancient and extends the entire globe... From exceptionally ancient earth-diver mythos found in every culture around the world to the massive sprawl of burial mound cultures: (barrows) extensively in Europe, Kurgans extensively of the massive Steppe and surrounding Black Sea... (half of the entire world!) Anatolia, China, Japan, Africa... the primordial mound of Ben Ben in Egypt most likely giving rise to stone masonry... The Pyramids... to (contemporary with the rise of Egypt) ... Caral... Mesopotamia... Mesoamerica. Similar megaliths from Peru to Italy across the entire global south (Easter Island, India, Turkey, Greece). The T pillars of ancient Gobekli Tepe so reminiscent of the circular enclosures and T windows at Chaco Canyon...goodness such an extensive deep dive (which this only grazes the surface) could extend all the way to when mans bones, refuse and war regalia are layered in caves with that of the Neanderthal, Denisovan, Erectus and other hominins. Territorial wars, civil wars, human sacrifice and genocide. The invention of Gods and God king's, the rise of empires and complete annihilation of entire people's: foreign people's, neighbors and brothers by the hand of brothers, neighbors and foreigners since the beginning of time. Since man first forged fire, stone, seed and civilization. Nothing new up under the sun. However, my favorite theory as to why the Hopewell mound builders had abandoned their vast empire of advanced civilization, chiefdoms, trade, agrarian settled life and seemed "backward" to the *civilizers* was simply because they had had enough of it already. There still is hope! Afterall , who doesn't want to fish by the wild stream, grow your own corn and love your people who are close and love all of mankind equally than sacrifice most of your labor to the state of elite "gods* who take from it for themselves and spawn new gods only to expand the take to other, global elites. This isn't a white and brown problem. Never has been.
the little miami is a cool area
@16:30
I just thought "Kings of the Sun"was just a stupid movie full of Hollywooden anachronisms, but never realised the racists bias beneath it.
@32:52
Not only did the Native Americans not have resistance against the Eurasian diseases, they also a more limited genetic toolbox to generate resistance.
They originated from a limited genepool which inheritated just a part of the Eurasian genepool and a few of the resistance developers were not in the heritage.
@38:47
of course Germans are amazingly interesed in First Nations, they grew up ( as in the Netherlands too) with the stories of Winnetou and Old Shatterhand by the end 19th century author Karl May.
He was THE EXPERT on Indians for us kids, not realising he was a very Eurocentric/ Germanophilic charlatan and fantast, who had completely no autentic knowledge about Native Americans or their language. The Indian phrases and names he used came almost verbatim from a booklet with Native American words I found myself in a 2nd hand bookshop.
@1:30:40
The steppyramide was not a ziggurat look a like, it was an extention of an earlier type of gravemonument, the mastaba, more or less a big slab of stone covering the grave, the steppyramide of Djoser was a sort of piling up of mastaba's. The pyramide of Meidum was likewise build but the coated with an outer layer like a piramid, the first "real"pyramid is the Bent pyramide of Snefuru on which the Egyptian discovered the pyramide would collapse with the sleep angle of the sides so halfway the made the sides less steep. Maybe this is the engineering proplem that's refered to.
I am no expert on ziggurats, but I read they were not used as tombs, but just platforms for worship, where the Maya pyramids were both: tomb and temple.
I've recently been reading a book called "Secret Germany," part of which analyzes the development of German culture from times before the Prussian resistance to Napoleon up to the development of Nazism. The book discusses several movements in the culture which were based on reconnecting the populace to their land and to their folklore. I wonder if this could have something to do with the German interest in first nations.
I don’t think the ditch on inside disproves any defensive purpose… viability maybe but not for an ancient civilization who’s making this out of thin air.
There are Irish who claim they are the ancient Hebrews eve that they were here well before the vikings by what is said about Kukulkan that he was a old white breaded man, have you ever heard of the Irish hero Cú Chulainn, search Kukulkan/Cú Chulainn and see what you see. If you read the where Tristán de Luna meet up with Hernán Cortés a town named after Kukulkan entered New Mexico and made camp around Albuquerque, New Mexico where both my wife's father and my father are born her father Deluna from chief blood line and mine McCullough, Irish meaning son of the hound of Ulster. My third great grand mother Frances Beulah Occoneechee Forbes Smith was sold to John Larkin Smith for 3 bags of salt in 1812 when she was 7 yeas old, John Larkin Smith is my third great grand father, if you look up the queen of England's mother's family name Elizabeth Bowes Lyon Lyon being lion and Bowes being from boar another name meaning of McCullough and in co Sligo Ireland that name is synonymous with the name McCullough who family coat of arm has an arm holding an arrow above the head and the Bowes-Lyon's where Bow makers
Queen Elizabeth is a descendant of Irish High King Brian Boru - say what? www.irishcentral.com/roots/queen-elizabeth-brian-boru
Ancient Hebrews yes. This is what the Book of Mormon says. These mound builders are the nephites. DNA was also found linking to Israel ancestry
@@Max-sh2ml sources please, my reading has been that zero semetic DNA matches with native americans, such that the LDS church now say the tribes were ancestors of 'some' tribes rather than all of them previously claimed
In there any thing more pathetic than a prof who has to explain a poem in English to an English-speaking audience?
did you never have a poetry class? Exploring context and background, impact of key words and style etc standard part of English Lit class
TAMLA TANETTE MOORE IS THE MOST HIGH AND UNSTOPPABLE TOO..ASE HEKA AMEN RA AHO MOORE NATION GRAND RISING.. HOLY TURTLE ISLAND
These lectures are outstanding! Thank you very much.
He is typically heavily anti-White...To the point of bigotry.
Wow you r very knowledgeable Have u read the book the book of mormon
😂
Er, he's technically a Mormon pastor.
Cincinnati day.
What the hell is that person yelling about?
So why dont they say the dutch discovered japan? Japan was in complete isolation for centuries untill the dutch opened up japan for the west.
Centuries of isolation is different from 20,000+ years of isolation.
@CliftonHicksbanjo true..
Revisionist history. Nice!
It's weird to ask "what's wrong with this picture?", when he showed Gandalf. Tolkien wrote about a completely IMAGINED world, it is a FANTASY, not a historical novel about Pre-Columbian time. just the wrong assumption from the beginning, so he creates mythology by himself, when he puts the wrong picture into the lecture.
I think you are more careful now than you were then to mix sweeping statements.
Juh-heezus that poem is way too long for a presentation to lay people. Excellent presentation, though. Not sure why the questions and interjections aren’t saved for the end. Or who brings a baby to a lecture. It’s great to be able to access lectures like this, but there’s always a crying baby.
37:40
Sounds like the "Ancient Aliens" crowd didn't just appear in 1990, but their ancestors were making up stuff back in the 1800s ! That is, if there's civilization, it could only be white people.
Around the late 1980s, National Geographic had some articles, showing that the Native American population was significantly greater in the later east coast of the United States. But that population had been decimated even before the arrival of the Pilgrims. Due to the disease brought by the Spanish, having traveled up from Mexico, further north. As far as Canada. Preceding later European settlement.
It's well proven that where "white people" go civilization follows.
The Shawnee who live in this area clearly state these earthworks were already there when their ancestors arrived. The mounds are far older than what is ascribed to them and were not built by descendants of modern indigenous people. To say otherwise is to call their elders liars.
Check Randall Carlson's work on this stuff.
This is a lie.
I would say Southeastern tribes know they are descendants of the mound builders, so are you saying they are liars.
About Randall Carlson, I would not call him a quack, but he is very much on the fringe. Not unlike the ancient aliens guys, oh wait, they are all into the sacred geometry thing too. Carlson is a Freemason, not that there is anything wrong with that, but the sacred geometry ideas of freemasonry is not science. You can’t mix spirituality with mathematics and call it science. Though if you were to claim that the universe is just a mathematical construct there would be a few theoretical physicists who would agree. But what do I know, I could very well just be a brain in a vat and all of this is just my imagination.
the myth racism is that europeans arrive see something impressive and say 'them darker skinned folk can't be clever like that, it must have been people like us' ; you see the same mindset re the pryamids or Nascar lines etc when people claim ancient alien visitations. How dare we risk that people before us could ever achive something we don't know how to replicate today...
Yes it's the African Americans were not African we were here with the natives even before them
The argument presented here seems deficient to me. This doesn't necessarily mean that the claim he makes is false, but it does mean that I cannot conclude the truth of his conclusion based on his presentation. His claim is that the "myth of the mound builders" is false. It's not clear to me whether this refers to the idea that the indigenous people present in the 16-1800s were not connected to the people who built the mounds, or to the idea that the mound builders where white specifically, but either way it seems that the argument can, at best, claim that "we have no grounds for believing the truth of the 'myth'," and that it is not strong enough to say that the myth is false.
In essence, the "argument" consists of constructing a narrative explaining the origin of the myth, connecting that narrative to racism, and effectively saying "racism is bad, so the myth must be a load of crap." This doesn't hold up, though, specifically in the connection of the narrative to racism. Without this connection, it seems that there could have been other reasons for believing that the people present in North America in the 16-1800s were not connected to the builders of the mounds. For example, the western hemisphere was populated by people divided into many separate groups, which warred with each other throughout their history. That the mounds were believed to be centuries old, and that more than one group of indigenous people could have inhabited the region since then, is enough to suggest the possibility of a different group being responsible for the mounds. That the Native Americans present in the area at the time existed in a more primitive state than the state of advancement implied by the mounds could be seen as further support that a different group was responsible. At the very least it could be seen to imply that, if the same people present at the time were the mounds builders, they had undergone a severe fall and cultural retrogression. This is all said without having an in-depth knowledge of the conditions of the time, so it may not hold, but my point is simply to show that other explanations beyond racism are possible for the belief at the root of the mound builder myth, and the burden of showing that this is not the case is on the shoulders of the person making the claim of racism being at the root. A better understanding of the time could show this particular avenue to be misinformed, but on the other hand it could also provide many other possible explanations (for example, did anyone at the time try asking the natives whether they knew about the origins of the mounds, or examine the role of the mounds in their folklore?). Even if we accept the connection of the narrative presented to racist sentiment, as long as other explanations are possible, racism can only really explain the origin of the idea that the mound building civilization had white skin, and from what I gathered in the video this seemed like a fairly minor part of the overall point.
So much of what is said in the argument presented is simply the presentation of an alternative narrative together with a claim that it is the correct one, without any real rigorous defense of why the alternative should be considered to be correct. I was surprised to see this, but I noticed that several other comments made by the audience, both during the presentation and after, seemed to include (whether stated directly or implied indirectly) the idea that white racism is the fundamental cause of evil in the world. I suppose it's easy to make intellectual mistakes if you're surrounded by others who already think the way you do, and who are motivated to find racism at the root of every issue.
I think that this is important because in our day so many people are building narratives around the past sins of white Europeans. While racism certainly existed and still exists, these narratives often ignore important historical context in order to build a narrative which is more convenient to the political agenda of a few, despite incorrectly representing the past, its conditions, and its inhabitants. Many people innocently take up these narratives without understanding their pernicious effects because they are told that doing so is compassionate or more correct, and they want to be good people. But we need to make an effort to be very careful about these narratives, because they really do cause harm in our society. In the end, everything said in this video may be correct, or in may not be, but either way it needs to be argued better than it has been.
Excellent analysis
I noticed that, too, that he fails to mention solid established facts that indians, or at least the nomadic indians, would kill. and they would do so not as whites, but on random chances, on pure killer instinct. if a man would wandered alone on the frontier and would have been caught by the indians, the same as chimps and wolves do, they would have killed him. sometimes, they would torture the victim for around 1 hr, and then they would eat it. all of these facts are omitted. he mentions cannibalism, but only in the context of another label that misinformed evil whites gave to people from Caribbean Isles. There are literally right now cases of cannibalism in Haiti and they are recorded with the phone. it's not like weird conspiracy theory that the obnoxious MAGA people came with. it's real.
however, when I saw this presentation I thought it was something else. I thought he is about to dismount all the "ancient technology" that the mound builders allegedly had, because some archeologists started to show how the mounds are built as calendars and how spiritual ceremonies were taken place there (despite having not a single proof for that). I've been to the circle of Newark, OH, but the circle simply looks like a water management ditch and nothing more than that.
You're telling me that tomatoes and potatoes all came from ancient America? Don't believe it
Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, corn, tobacco, syphilis, cocaine, taquila, barbecue, the rubber sports ball... 🤯
Corn and the game Lacrosse, too!😂
The problem is that archeologists far more famed than he have definitely stated that there are NO Clovis points North of the lower Canada border including NONE in Alaska. The Clovis did not come from the land bridge.
It's funny you know. People like to think science is a process exclusive and separate from the humans doing it.
"White" was invented by racists in early US history to oppress people of color. The Mound Builders were called anything but Native American at the time.
Today "white" is used by racists to grab power. ALL THE LAND was stolen and the fact that 90% of the North & South American native populations died from disease before any colony was founded.
Most of the Natives encountered by colonists along the gulf coast, south east and Mississippi Valley. Were also new comers. That's why the Charokee had no idea who built these mounds. They didn't know because they too were immigrants. Even the Amazon has turned out to be man made. As for the Clovis. The most stunning instance of "narrative" based attack on a scientist. That I can remember...is that woman geologist who dated a Clovis site in Mexico outside the approved narrative's timeline. She published her scientific research and they destroyed her career. The archeologist and anthropologist working the site.
The Native Americans not only had no immunity to human viruses but they had 0 beasts of burden, 0 pigs and 0 chicken's. All flu like viruses come from those animal's. The Spanish contact with the Mississippian sealed their fate.
The sea level was different back there is more than a good chance that people stayed along the coast as they migrated which would now be underwater. Also how much effort has been put into searching these whole area along with there didnt need to be 100Ks of people migrating.
What's really crazy is a lot of ancient art that's associated with the mound builders is extremely identical to a lot of the art and artifacts associated with the south american ancient works its crazy.
My tin foil interpretation is that during the age of "exploration" to lay "claim" to a land for their country they had to deny that anyone had a legitiate claim to that land before them so the european invaders I mean explorers created theiories to explain how the current population of the time did not have a legitimate claim to the land.
The explorers were looking for the New World, or the "New Atlantis" Sir Francis Bacon surmised in the early 1600's. Look at the symbol used by Columbus when coming to the "New World". None other than the "Rosy Cross". The brotherhoods have had it out for "America" before it was ever even "America". I believe they already felt justified in claiming the land, but it does help to build the "they were savages, we are the civilized" narrative, and probably mostly due to ethnicity ("white" vs "non-white"). The brotherhoods seem to be rather prejudice against many that aren't white males, and then give the rest of us a bad name for their actions. My fellow black, hispanic, arab and other males that also get bad wraps due to others of your own similar kind, I feel your pains; bunch of dicks gonna fuck it up for the rest of us honest folk, due to the mass of sheeoples and general prejudice. (Insofar as the "brotherhoods", I mean from the OG's of Summeria/Babylon, that spread to Egypt, then Afghan-Asia area, before being appropriated and brought back west during the Crusades, that has given rise to many different off-shoots of the same thing; the brotherhoods. I know it's not "definitive proof" of anything, but the one song by Jesper Kyd "Apocalypse" {Greek for revealing or uncovering, presumably what is hidden} reminds me of the "brotherhood". If interested in listening, look up "Hitman Blood Money OST" on CZcams, most have translations, at the song is in Latin. I also suggest Bill Coooper's "Mystery Babylon Series" also found on CZcams) -Not attempting to be argumentative or arbitrarily contrary, just sharing, and thanks for you doing the same.
@1:15:30 And that village sounds like Jehovah next to the river they didn't eat boar (p[g) meat thought it was bad for you
The Mound Builders I know look like me and they didn’t disappear. We are still in America today. Not what you call a modern “Native American” though...
czcams.com/video/1vcem3miWvY/video.html
This man does a great job at explaining the collective and scientific view on the hoepwell moundbuilders. The "Myth" of the moundbuilders is simply not a myth. There is physical evidence in the graves or mounds of the people that lived here. Namely, the existence of metal armor and weapons. Breastplates that were square or rectangular pieces that covered your front, Headplates that cover your scalp from forehead to back, not to be confused with helmets which cover the entire heads. Now the Native Americans didn't have metal making technology, they used stones and bones for their weapons. How then could these metal instruments of war end up in the graves of so many lost people?
The part in the presentation where he speaks on the Book of Mormon, it sounds as if he had read a wiki article on it rather than actually reading it. If he had read it then he would know that Joseph Smith, literally a farm boy with less than a third grade education, Translated the book from physical metal plates would not have been able to fictionalize this. Or in other words "make it up". He would not have known about the Spalding manuscript or any other attempts at knowing what this lost civilization was. Think about it how could he have come up with a whole book over the span of 800 years of history and write it down without the educational tools to do so.?
Ok now that is out of the way.
He does tell in the Book of Mormon that there was a family who received direction from the Lord to flee from Jerusalem before it was destroyed. It tells that they fled to the waters of the Mediterranean where they made boats and traveled to north america, There they had the land alone with no others, so they had conflicts and spread throughout the current midwest and United States. The mounds were built as graves for the thousands of people whose lives were lost in these conflicts. This was predicted by prophets in the Bible.
He also conveniently leaves out anything to do with Religion. If he had read the book then he would know that first and foremost it is not only a "Story" telling of the Nephites and Lamanites. It is a Testament of Jesus Christ. It states in the very beginning that it is not supposed to be a history of the people but a work of scripture and revelation as the Bible is a testament of Jesus Christ. How would Joseph Smith known so much about Jesus and to have him show up as a figure in "his" book. Now if you have questions about this than read the book for yourself.
I say all of this because it saddens me that so many people throw this under the rug and reject it as Fiction. So many scholars and scientists who see these ruins and ancient graves don't acknowledge the fact that someone has found a history of these people and has translated it using the tools of translation that these people used as well. This book is not a Fiction but Fact and is true. The evidence that these people lived and died in this very land is all around us and it would be foolhardy to reject this evidence and its truth.
Now the "myth" of the moundbuilders is not a myth at all but a Truth.
@David Christen Lol you believe that nonsense,the Book of Mormon was a made up story by a very good liar who used his King James Bible (hence the many errors in translation and so on) for his inspiration in making his own religion. In reality the people of the America’s weren’t savages who did not know how to craft metal .
In fact, Mesoamerica (particualrly West Mexico) and Andean cultures had rich traditions in bronze-working before the Spanish conquest. Think of the stereotypical imagery you see of the Spanish conquest. Artifacts show that these societies had acute knowledge of creating copper allows with particular sound and color properties.The leaders of the Aztec were more than decked out in gold and metal objects. However, the items are almost exclusively religious or "prestige" items with no real practical purpose. In West Mexico, the items are almost all bells. In the Andes, the Moche civilization in particular also produced several items of jewelry.
Why didn't didn't they further develop their metallurgy, then? In the Andes, where bronze working was well-developed by 200CE, the answer can be explained by a lack of demand. In Europe, metallurgy developed for a few key reasons: transportation, agriculture, and warfare. However there wasn't a demand for more advanced metallurgy in these areas. At least, a demand had not been created by the time of the Columbian Encounter for a few key reasons.
For one, there were no domesticated draft animals in the Americas (a point which I believe is discussed in Diamond's "Gun's, Germs, and Steel). There were llamas, but they could only pack about 60 lbs. This meant that transportation technology was very primitive as the Americas did not develop chariots or horse-drawn wagons which would greatly have their performance boosted by metal wheels. Additionally, the rugged terrain of the Andes also held transportation back.
In the realm of agriculture, the plow revolutionized crop yield for Eurasia. However, the Andean cultures used terrace farming, and their plows (had they invented them) could not be pulled by draft animals anyway.
I found the warfare aspect to be the most interesting. In the Andes, armor and weapons were almost entirely based on cloth. This sounds kind of silly to us, but the cloth armor was actually much better suited to the geography and climate of the Andes. Supposedly, journal entries suggest that some Spanish conquistadors even preferred the armor to their metal armor. The armor was also better suited to defend against the club-like weaponry which was commonly used. One source I read suggested that "pointier" weapons were not developed because they were not blatantly more effective unless on horseback.
Despite all of these trends, the fact that metallurgy didn't develop further had a lot to do with how each culture viewed the role of metal. The role of metalworker was not valued as much in the Americas as it was in Eurasia. Ironically, copper was much more abundant in Mesoamerica. This meant that metalworkers in the Americas did not have the same "mystique" as Eurasian metalworkers who were essentially creating metal out of "nothing," meaning rocks.
Oftentimes, a product must be created before there is a demand. Perhaps there would have been a bigger demand for bronze (and later iron and steel) had someone realized and created that demand, but that just didn't happen before the Europeans arrived.
To answer the rest of your question, iron and steel were likely not developed because mastery of these materials is generally considered to come after mastery of bronze working. While bronze working was advanced in the Americas, it was certainly not mass produced, and they were never able to develop the advanced smelting techniques necessary to extract iron from ore, probably because they never needed to for copper.
Again, while I love history, I'm only minoring in it. I'm a Math and Engineering student. So please, please correct me or add anything else! If there is interest I can post the actual paper I wrote for the class.
Sources:
Lechtman and Hosler were the best sources I found in writing about this, but I don't have access to JSTOR right now as I'm not on campus.
Hosler, Dorothy 1995 Sound, Color and Meaning in the Metallurgy of Ancient West Mexico. World Archaeology 27(1):100-115. 2009 West Mexican Metallurgy: Revised and Revisited. Journal of World Prehistory 22(3):185-212
Lechtman, Heather 1984 Andean Value Systems and the Development of Prehistoric Metallurgy. Technology and Culture 25(1):1-36.
1985 The Significance of Metals in Pre-Columbian Andean Culture. Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences 38(5):9-37
do you really believe in this nonsense?
where are the coins, iron weapons
or stone made buildings, the wheels, horses, elephants etc.
mentioned in the book of mormons, better called book
of morons?
where are inscriptions written
in oriental languages found in
america?
joseph smith was a con-man,
but an intelligent con-man.
there is no reason to believe that
he was not able to make up the
book of morons.
his lack of education is true, but a
gifted con-man needs gullible
morons rather than education.
You guys leave insults but he is right, it is the Book of Mormon. It is true. I did not grow up I. The church but prayed diligently asking if it was true and although you both will never believe me I did have a powerful Holy Ghost experience that confirmed the Book of Mormon real and Joseph Smith a prophet. It was so powerful I could never deny it. The lord is real and so is the Book of Mormon. Pray and ask diligently with a sincere heart having faith in Christ and he will answer you the sane way. Moroni 10:4-5
@@Max-sh2ml i am absolutely sure that you are honest and tell us the truth about your personal
experience.
always when one asks a mormon
about the lack of archaelogical
evidence for the stories of the nephites and the lamanites etc.
he says pray and ask the lord.
when i heard this the first time
i thought that he was kidding me.
but i learned that the mormons
really believe this.
no archaeologist would accept
such a "method".
almost all mormons of the lds church i met are kind and honourable people.
i am sure that joseph smith and
brigham young were con-men and
criminals but good and hard working people made the best of
a wicked idea becauce the book
of mormon contains thoughts
of righteousness "copied" from
the bible.
@@RPe-jk6dv If you have the courage to watch...
czcams.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/video.html
actually, the Huron wiped out native populations before the European settlers moved in
Acting like the caribs and natives weren't cannibals and savages is pseudo science
Srprized you are not a member
"They stole land that no one was living on"
Ah how do you steal something no one owns.
I love the fake engravings. Historical frauds are so interesting. Funny that the Native guy in the audience was trying to make sure that people know they weren't real.
Stone Throwers (Enkwehsayen, in Tuscarora): Little people of Tuscarora folklore. They are dwarf-like nature spirits about 2 feet tall.
Sound a lot like Irish little folk
and
Godasiyo: Legendary female chief of the Tuscarora tribe this the Greek goddess Estonia it is the same story
The Rosetta Stone had been reused to add to a wall, it was slowly being retaken by nature. It represented no value to the Egyptians beyond the hardness of its granite. You must remember, the Mameluks were in control, the Muslims had taken Egypt long ago and in doing so ripped the limestone off the pyramids to build the mosques of Cairo. The French and british did nothing wrong taking the Rosetta Stone, to the west it’s a priceless artifact of world history not just an insignificant block of granite.
Loved your presentation. I’ve got 40 minutes left, but got snagged up on the fake slate artifacts. I’m familiar with the story, and agree that the tablets were made in recent times relative to their discovery. However, in northern Illinois I’ve recently discovered; on three separate farms all within 3 miles of each other, Native American wood harvesting tools in mass. I’m certain that they were made/used around the turn of the 19th century, because there is glass tools associated.
I wonder if those tablets were made by natives who became Christians after European contact, and buried them in the mounds before the two men found them? Was that avenue ever explored? Just a thought after finding what I’ve found here in N Illinos.
Anyway, I’m going to finish watching now. I’ll check out your page too!
Oh, just to put some context to what I have found. There are literally thousands of these tools on each farm. ✌️
I think a pretty likely reason for the mounds would be flood protection. back then there was not the extensive flood control systems and many of the mounds are near rivers and even the ones not currently by rivers might have been just the river has changed course again since there was no flood control. And no reason to think that they couldnt have multiple purposes like burying the dead under their homes. there is also some evidence that in the lower mississippi(this is greatly summed up) that fishing would have been enough for very large populations
I believe the same thing. The river gives and the river takes away. The rage of the river is the motivation for the effort to build.
same here. in Ohio, when it rains, most of the plains get flooded with water. that can't be good if you have some sort of agriculture or some dwellings there.
any same man who would walk around a circle like I had in Newark, Oh can realize this quickly.
also, they very probable had the flood myth. they probably had some instinctual fear of great waters sweeping them away.
You are 50/50 on your thumps up thumps down I wonder why
closer to 66/33 now so no worries.
My advice is to end your videos after your lecture is finished. Taking questions from your live audience is a real diminution from your end product, as most of your live audience are lame and have absurd comments!!!!
maybe they should shut the comment section down too, or pissants will just keep filling up the space with complaints!!!
@@jimtaggert42 Dude, have you even looked at your picture? You're a fuckin joke!!!!!!
@@georgejcking That's right, pissant! You however are the great and wise De Pissant, who bestows advice to hapless youtubers! lmao!
mounds were built to escape flood waters from the rivers.
You can just give us information about that lost culture and not give a critical theory deconstruction saying how much we suck.
It's sad how stupid are....
"When did DeSota come?"
"1500s"
"This was a genocide?"
"Yes European's brought disease"
"So they knew about viruses?"
"No"
So......
They gloss over how the conquistadors were so successful. 200 dudes Against an empire. The other mesoamerican tribe's joined them because they were slaves to the empire.
Perhaps because it's precisely what many of us are looking forward to
@@juliankennedy6525?
This guy has a really hard time using the term "Before Christ". Why, I do not know. Does he not believe that Christ ever existed. Most atheists would not deny the existence of Christ. perhaps His resurrection, But certainly not His birth.
For some folks the birth of Jesus isnt the benchmark event by which all other events are measured relative to. When talking about a society where Jesus wasn't well known until after 1492 it muddles up the language and the narrative.
BCE doesn't stand for before Christ, it stands for Before Common Era. people aren't being anti Christian by saying BCE, I would know I am Christian.
BCE is the universal scholarly term. No one serious uses BC anymore.
Read the Book of Mormon so that you will know what happened there. Hopewell are the Nephites.
When I read Harry Potter I can know what happened at Hogwarts.
You forget the Jedi
Not slaves. Prisoners of war!!!
Gandalf was smoking weed not tobacco. Not an anachronism.
... what do you think weed is
@@heremapping4484 no, cannabis use in pre industrial times is not an anachronism.
@@Dahlen4Dummies Objectively false. Tobacco and Cannabis were in use in the Americas and west Africa.
@@heremapping4484 that supports my point.
@@Dahlen4Dummies Then you did not make what you were saying very well.
The first NATION on the North America was the United States of America. Then the Republics south of the Rio Grande. Then came the Dominion of Canada. The Indians were not the first nation nor the second, nor the third nor fourth nor any NATION at all.
U mad, bro?
@@guib6055 Me heap mad ugh!
@@gussetma1945 lol!
I hear drums!
Nation - "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory"
@@juliankennedy6525 For a start they weren't united, they were at each other throat. They did not have a common language or culture and they were nomadic and had no defined territory. Or: Kein land, kein Volk, Keine Erbschaft.
colombus discovered america in 1800 bce and had moses part the atlantic sea while he walked his horse across and built in peru before the aztecs came from cincinnati
You forgot that the Aztecs used alien tech to build the mounds finding it cheaper than stone. Bigfoot raised and trained bison to haul dirt for the mounds. Just ask them.
@@mikedickison244 aks who ? the bison ?
THANKYOU for proving the text of the Book of Mormon
How on earth did you come away thinking that this presentation proved the Book of Mormon? It did the exact opposite. Do you understand what 'myth' means?
There were thousands of newspaper articles, especially in the late 1800's, telling of incredible Archeological finds. Publicly acknowledged, most digs were lead by the Smithsonians Archeological teams. This was common knowledge at the time, unlike today in the modern era.
These mound building natives were a different people then who we refer to as "the Hopewell people."
I'll put the "Mississippian people" on that list as well, in the Mississippi and Ohio River Valley region.
These people were wiped out. Most of the witnesses were murdered. America's new Colonial arrivals, then had shown up, then they finished the job, and they settled the new land.
One theme is common, that the American Indians didn't build these awe inspiring mounds.
Nope
I believe were Cretan Minoans. It’s almost certain they reached as far as Great Britain and Canada seeking copper
Is the speaker a Mormon?
{:-:-:}
@@sukt00
What church is he from?
{:-:-:}
@Kevin A
Yes, that's what I thought. I'm sure I've heared him refer to Mormon as his church.
That's why I asked!
Cheers!
{:-:-:}
he is from the Community of Christ, they came from the group of mormons who didn't follow Bringhaam Young to Utah. J. Smith's wife and son stayed with this group. Utah mormons got to be the dominant form but this is a mormonism without literalism. Just as lots of chrisatian churches that are open to not taking the bible literally,
@@helenr4300
That's a bit odd. Does he believe in the Golden Tablets, Magick Hat and the Angel Moronic, as espoused by the convicted con-man, charlatan and fraud?
{:-:-:}
@@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095 see his lecture on book of Mormon for today,
I wish people would let us tell our own story. Its our truth to tell. We were here thousands of years before Columbus. We are between copper colored and burnt brass. Hebrews from Noahs first son Shem, not to be confused with Ham. We are a set aside people. We are Isreal and the world knows it...
This was an interesting but disappointing lecture filled with inaccuracies. For example the angel Moroni was not a spirit but a resurrected being who came to Joseph Smith as an angelic messenger not a spirit. The LDS church has never made an official correlation between the mound builders and the events found within the the Book of Mormon. The LDS church does not make any declarations as to the location in regards to the peoples of the Book of Mormon and whether they were to be found in North America, central America or South America. Probably one the greatest inaccuracies of your presentation was that no one outside of Joseph Smith ever saw the plates with their" natural eyes". The testimony of 8 witnesses declares and I quote " Joseph Smith... has shown unto us the plates of which have been spoken, which have the appearance of gold and as many of the leaves...we did handle with our hands and we saw the engraving's thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work and curious workmanship". This account does not indicate any angelic messengers or use of other than their natural eyes and physical body. There are also other individuals who handled the plates such as Joseph Smith's wife and mother and they recorded that they moved the plates around the house even though they were covered by cloth. They stated that they felt the leaves of the plates with their fingers. I believe that if you are going to present history present it accurately and completely, not jaded with innuendo and personal supposition.
Yes! 👏🏼
Just because the people who invented our religion and wrote our bibles are morons doesn’t mean we can’t still believe in it.. lol yikes how does he sleep tho
This is different from everything else I have read. Like he even contracted nationalparks.org like is he serious?
Interesting breakdown on how the mythology of the mound builders changed as the conquering peoples views changed. That was exactly what the lecture was about. Of course, being a woke academic he was anti-white, anti-christian and definitely wrong on many facts. For instance, Cohokia, by modern archeologists, was abandoned by about 1300 as was most of the Mississippi culture. The mound builders (meaning Adena culture) were long gone before the Fort & Mississippian arose, fading out about 200 BC.
Antieurocentric view, which is to say, prefers to see history throught he lense of reality.
I think you are viewing this lecture through your own bigotry which is exactly what the lecture is about. You are inventing views which are not present in the video
the man is a christian historian...where is he anti-christian? l m a o
Who is the jerk that keeps butting in and being rude to people?? If they don't want children at the lectures maybe they should provide child care! Just because someone doesn't have a place to take their children doesnt mean they should be shamed for trying to participate in life! I found him much more distracting than the kid. I don't know why people are so intolerant of children in our society. And then he berates someone for asking a question that he doesn't like? Dude...what's your problem? I've enjoyed listening to many of these lectures...but if I listen to more of them I hope he keeps his mouth shut.
Calling American Indian tribes 'first nations' is insulting to everyone including them.
First off why on earth is this titled "Myth of the Mound Builders"? Is it the claim of this orator that our modern interpretation of Native American "indians" built all of these sites and there were no previous civilization/s? The Native American populations have long said they did not build these mounds. Of course thats not to say that some White/jewish group built them lol. The clear fact remains that some of these mounds and artifacts share similarities in style and design not only to many of the Mesoamerican sites but also to Egyptian, Mesopotamian and even Indus Valley cultures. Is it possible there existed a universal/global civilization on this planet that through war and or cataclysmic events was made nearly impossible to discern?
Also isn't it time we need to question the old world disease narrative? Colonialists stumble over to the new world with no other motive or reason then to be left alone and accidentally kill the indigenous population with their nasty diseases. Whoopsies... but also hurray that was sure convenient. Meanwhile Patuxet and other chiefs, guides and translators conveniently don't die despite literally living with the white disease bags in their own filthy nest called Europe hmmm.... Of course anyone who's reason still outweighs his indoctrination knows it's more likely that the new world inhabitants were wiped out deliberately through all out genocidal warfare.
And yet could it be that a separate equally deadly and undiscussed cataclysm wiped out the population of The Americas and beyond? Perhaps the volcanic winter of the 6th century (536/540) and or the "little ice age" just just in time for good ol "Columbus" to arrive on the shores of the "New world"?
Globalization. The chiefs were immune. Didn't care for the flock