Ukraine's Air Defense-hunting missiles are about to get a LOT better
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2023
- Ukrainian forces have been leveraging America’s AGM-88 High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missile (HARM) since August of 2022 or earlier, but because these weapons are being deployed by dated Soviet jets that were never intended to use them, their utility has been dramatically limited.
But with Ukraine receiving F-16s from Denmark and the Netherlands, that's about to change.
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Citations:
- www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Shee...
- www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...
- www.navair.navy.mil/product/A...
- www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Do...
- www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/p...
WELL DONE!!. Slava Ukraine, Heroiam Slava, from CANADA
In this short video, I learnt more about the operating modes of the HARM than from any other media. Thank you Sandboxx!
The difference between real journalism and a wiki read off.
@@MardukTheSunGodInsideMeby 0:41 0:41 0:41
Forbes had a story before sandbox.
First Danish F-16's going to Ukraine this year. 🇺🇦💪🏻
Cheers from Denmark 🇩🇰
The 1st six Ukrainian F-16 pilots won't be ready until next summer at the earliest. Probably not competent enough for combat until 2025.
@@donwyoming1936you’re tripping lmao 6 months at most. 4 months if they’re dedicated enough, this isn’t rocket science they’re skilled pilots too
Won’t make any difference. TrumptytheClown will be prez by then and he won’t send anymore weapons
There may be some volunteer or mercenary f-16 pilots flying the flag for Ukraine 🇺🇦
And they'll be shot down in a week.
There's also a number of AGM-88 variants that make them even more lethal. 88Es, Fs and Gs feature millimeter wave homing radar to find radars that go offline while the missile is still in flight increasing the probability of a hit. Some also have extended range.
When Ukraine gets their F-16s it makes sense they should also get some of the upgraded AGM-88s to be used on them.
Thx for the info i was not aware of the other variants..
Ukraine no doubt has first been receiving Bs and Cs before it gets Ds (Some of the Bs and Cs may likely become Fs through a hardware upgrade), Es as they start to run out of older stocks but as for the G (Also known as the AARGM-ER) probably not any time soon as it has only just entered low-rate initial production.
the E, F and G also have GPS coordinates, in conjunction with the millimetre wave as you mentioned and the anti radiation seeker.
All kinds of weapons will be open to the Ukrainians that haven’t been. The F-16s with a broad selection of weapons in adequate numbers would be as significant as anything yet sent.
@@oldfashionedwrx3574 IIRC it was the D model that introduced GPS to the AGM-88's autopilot section.
I'm sure this'll get included in the deep-dive, but this "built to purpose and thereby allowing full use of capabilities" thing also applies to F16s and JDAMs, IIRC.
Do you think the airpsace over Ukraine will be safe enough for the f16s to use AGM-65. I mean I know that they will likely use the AGM-88 to create pockets of airspace to be used for closer combat but I don't know if it would still be safe enough for them to get close enough for their flir cams to lock onto a vehicle.
I mean its not more safe than doing the same in their current fighters. But sure they are exposed to a high degree. Wonder how long before pilote training will allow it to be used to its full potential
@@perelfberg7415 yeah true although Ukraine have a lack of guided missiles and I don't even know if they have any fire and forget missiles left. The fire and forget missiles they did have are very old and are extremely prone to locking on to bright colours and I don't even know if they have any aircraft with optical targeting. I know they have some su-24 but I don't know if they have a varient with a targeting pod. I know they don't have any su-25 with a targeting pod. But I guess we will see like you said. Ukraine has somehow figured out how to fly drones over s300 and s400 hundred sites and last week himars blew up 3 S300 launchers and 2 of its radars then yesterday the Ukrainian GUR managed to blow up a s400 battery in Crimea and ever since the start of the offensive about 8 buk systems have been destroyed so maybe by the time jets arrive Russia's air defence will be weak enough to fly some direct fire missions. I mean yesterday some UA su-25s flew some direct fire missions over robotyne so maybe maybe.
Just something to consider an AGM-88 is about 361 kg. The Bayraktar TB2 has a wingspan of 12 meters and a maximum takeoff weight of 650 kilograms. If you put on a computer with a Starlink modem and a NATO buss that allows the drone to operate the missiles in all 3 modes. launch them just behind other drone attacks and then release them while they are trying to take out other drones.
Its iffy if the Bayraktar can carry two 88's but likely with some modification the lift power could be increased, likely at the expense of some range.
Don't forget the HARM targeting Receiver that can GEO locate a radar that is emitting and send GPS coordinates to the HARM when launched so if enemy turns off radar that radar is still dead. The targeting receiver can also send those GPS coordinates to other Vipers through datalink. So not only HARMs but any GPS guided weapon will be able to be used to hit radar.
wow, that's bonkers! So it's basically THE go-to weapon system in order to establish air superiority. I bet Ukraine has gathered plenty of coordinates of Russian air defense systems already, just waiting to be destroyed...
Harm can be intercepted by air defenses which would most likely be the tor, Tunguska or pantsir seeing that’s their main mission set
@@raygunreagan2274only when it's slow. If fired from a close enough range the HARMs motor will still be burning making it very fast and much harder to intercept seeing as it's a relatively small missile compared to a full size cruise missile.
It's called the HTS or HARM Targeting System.
Datalink is going to be an interesting feature in western supplied fighters to Ukraine. I wonder if NATO assets in the area will be feeding data to Ukrainian pilots.
The Harm eER is a 350km radar hunting missile with 4 times the distance of the regular Harm. Thereby giving any 4th generation fighter a chance to destroy a Sam system!
And I think it is double the speed while being able to fit two inside the f35, making easily one of the most dangerous anti radiation missiles out there
Yeah
. Do HARM missiles also target EW weapons? Would help taking out some of Russias EW capabilities since they have been successfull against our GPS guided munitions.
@dianapennepacker6854 Yes, they can lock on to jammer and even some radio communications
Tacit rainbow is another antiradiation missile that is loitering in search of a target.
Sams house already burned down in Hawaii.
Very interesting. A lot of this was new to me.
The F16 activates the HARMs "put me in coach" mode
I really appreciate the mix of short “stories” and long videos. With a lot of this content I’m not learning anything so much as I’m hearing a expert opinion or a different source to where I have read it. But that’s what I really like about this format, it is validating my own research and interests. Keep up the great content, you are probably my favourite aviation journalist.
Radars don't broadcast but transmit. A broadcast is meant to be heard by multiple users. A transmission is not limited to the number of receivers. Thanks for this video.
Say more please. This seems like a distinction without a difference. What you said seems to say there are potentially multiple listeners and multiple receivers in both cases.
And also, don’t air defense radars (ground and airborne) broadcast/transmit the attacking airplane coordinates to multiple missile batteries and their own multiple airplane interceptors?
Curious to learn what you mean. Thanks.
i just love the clean concise format of this guys presentations
Big props to you for using your actual voice and doing the work yourself, unlike so many other "War in Ukraine" channels that spew useless information and the same clips over and over but you learn nothing.
When the Russian turn off the radar, they can have another small antenna 100m away broadcast the same signal as a decoy.
This was very helpful to my understanding of what has been going on with these missiles since they were given to the Ukrainians. It has been understood that the effectiveness of these missiles in suppressing Russian air defenses hasn't been particularly impressive? Your comments here address some of that. Thank you, sir. :)
Patrick Lancaster has a report on a HARM hitting a civilian building in Donetsk. He's on site, in Donetsk. Tons of video and interviews. Sure looks like it was a civilian building, fortunately under construction and not yet inhabitted.
The Viper's gonna give Ukraine a big edge.
Falcons, they're not getting block 70.
@@JSFGuy They'll likely get some of it though
@@JSFGuy My guess is it will be customized for optimal performance without risking any technology secrets
You gotta believe that there will be volunteer F-16 pilots of non-Ukrainian decent that have experience in SEAD operations that would be available to "lend a hand". Similar to what the soviets did in the Korean war with russian pilots secretly flying against United Nations pilots.
@@JSFGuy
They dont need Block 70
What they need is F-16s that can use AGM-65, PAVEWAYs, JDAMs. AGM-88 and CBU which most F-16s can do
Now the US can really do Ukraine a solid and either intergrate Storm Shadow or KEDP-350 or better, give Ukraine some JASSM
While ATACMS is iffy, the USAF has thousands of JASSMs and giving Ukraine the older models allows them to buy newer
Alex, you need to do a video on what Ukraine’s done with their neptunes!! 😊
I always enjoy your videos. You are the best on aviation subjects. Keep up good work
I mean I miss the time when they use and put Standard missile version of Anti Radiation Missile, it was big as hell to be put and use on aircraft during Vietnam War from Wild Weasel planes, F-16 would probably an extra punch in their Wild Weasel capability
Awesome 👍 Glory to Ukraine 👊
Thanks you Alex...
And 10% for the Big Guy..
The likely way Ukraine is using the HARM's now is to open paths for strike packages, for example let's say that the Russian's have gotten better at hitting missiles from HIMAR's. You can then fire a few salvos of HARM's in the general direction, the radars will shut down, and you time multiple salvos of missiles from HIMAR's to fly at about the same time. The HIMAR's can even target the radars opening future chances for deeper strike packages, rinse and repeat. New options are neat, but it's going to be a while before Ukraine pilots can fly wild weasel missions.
Great Analysis !!
The missile also remembers where the radiation was coming a short while ago before it was turned off. GPS jammers will be strong emitters as well, so it should be able to target them as well.
yeah but only the newer versions of the HARM have that but the one the UAF use are older versions
Glory to Ukrainians 🇺🇦
Great detail - I think we all wish F16 could be deployed quicker. Greetings from Spain.
Can't imagine what it'd be like being switching on radar and hoping a HARM doesn't ruin your day.
hoping your day does not get HARMed
That S400 getting hit in SW Crimea bonkers
We still don’t know how the F-16s will be delivered, if Ukraine will receive any part of the EW package. It should be nice if they got AN/ASQ-213 HARM targeting system from the US. With LITENING pod they can also target air defenses with normal JDAM or Paveway. It would also be nice to patch HARM to also find GPS jammers.
Harm in TOO mode- “put me in coach”
Thanks!
Great info
Citing DCS, which is dated info, I believe self protect, and target of opportunity modes are more F/A-18 affiliated. But since we’re talking Dutch and Danish F-16s I believe it’s slightly different terminology/methodology.
Another reason why we should have given Ukraine F-16s months ago. Enough half measures already and give them what they need to win the war.
Ironically, an infrared seeking missile is also anti-radiation, since like radar, infrared is a kind of electromagnetic radiation, aka light.
Sandbox rocks !
Thank God the alarm was only a missile i thought a chicken flew the coop.
@3:00 thats lake jackson in sebring fl. f16s are facing generally SE.
The AGM-88 HARM is very good at SEAD.
Would be weird if a missile designed for SEAD isn't very good at it.....
Well explained.
Thanx Alex - Very useful and interesting. Let's just hope it does make a difference and the UA can use them to their advantage.
1:38 that's such a nicer name.
Here we call it the getho solution, lmao.
"Mickey Mousing"? That's how I know you're old. That what all the old guys in my industry call it too.
The AGM 88 missile knows where your transmitter is because it knows where your transmitter isn't
cant wait for your next vid
Never understood why the UK ditched its ALARM loitering missile.
Excellent information bro! Thanks for keeping us informed.
Man it sounds like ukraine getting the F-16'S is gonna be a big help with harm missles and being able to destroy alot more radars and air defense systems, i cant wait for your new video on this on friday, your channel is one of my favorites...keep up the good work my friend
Cool! 👍
We about to have a good Friday boys.
remember also that it the missile acquires radar target, it remembers where it is in case the source shuts down.
Great work as usual, Alex! Looking fwd to your video on Friday..
Please move the fighter jet picture to the right (from the camera's point of view), I can't unsee the fighter jet wings coming out of your head haha
I'm looking forward to Friday's video
Thank you for all of your hard work
Very interesting lets hope they get the F-16's quickly.
Why? So they can be shot down like all the other Ukrainian aircraft?
Or so Ukrainian men and westen money can keep feeding the meat grinder?
Alex always look to your videos. Tom.
Wow, had to drastically slow down playback speed to comprehend !!
Great work Alex, you have broadened my horizon regards technical and other insights. Bravo Zulu
I guess "Self-Protect Mode" reacts to target radar and "Target of Opportunity Mode" reacts to search radar?
Norway is also going to supply Ukraine with F-16s in addition to Netherlands and Denmark
Another game changer like the Leopards , Bradley's and Challenges mk2s 😂😂😂
you are mentioning PB TOO and SP modes, i think those are more compatible with the F18 not F16. a quick read of DCS manuals will explain all the differences. no mention of the Harm targeting System (HTS) pod that the F16 can carry and detect and save radars then transfer to harm missile for attack
@Sandboxx anything interesting you can give us from the mobile phone video of Prigozhin's plane crash?
Wild Wessel's
POINT!
Great short!
I like your 5 minute explainers
I know it's not realistic, because the training and expertise required is insane. But God do I want so badly for the ukrainian army to have wild weasels. Rockeye II cluster bombs and HARMs doing work in Eastern Europe would be so cool
Cool.
Very cool.
Great information, Alex. Thanks !
'HARM" is 'Homing Anti-Radiation Missile' surely, not 'High-Speed etc.'?
HEy thanks for the clarity.
1) Does a Harm missile, if shot 20km oder maybe 30km (16 miles) away track the target at that distance?
if yes, can it memorize the exact location?
if not, can it switch to active search 3km before it reaches the target to fine-localize it?
if not, can it climb, to find out the distance more precisely next to the acquired azimth?
can the rocket fly to stay undetected, like emitting low IR by using only one quarter of the throttle which makes it still super sonic at over 15km altitude? so it could fly up there and come down by using own active radar?
btw the video you provided showed a green cone as if it was a seeker, active one.
therefore, if the enemy radar has such a small cross section of the HARM detected and goes offline, the harm could fly to the location at about 50m and switch to active then. right?
imagine all the Russians need is switch their station off to dodge a expensive missile (400.000 USD?) without even moving
Thank you for sharing
🏆🤗🇺🇲🙏
Hah cob jobbing. Im gonna remember that hehe.
Gambiarra! 🎉
What's your opinion on the position of Belgian defense that refuses to send F16s on the pretext that they are old aircrafts that exceeded 8000 hours of flight and that as such they're not safe to use ? Aren't dutch F16 in the same condition? Does it make sense ? Aren't Belgian aircraft still useful to Ukraine?
Was it left right toggle or right forward toggle
"About to get" is deceptive. A reasonable number of functional F-16s is still a long way off. Months and probably years.
Now I Know from yesterday you were right.
It was either that or some rope I made at the Amish Rope Makers Guild.
Ah HARM...
I Knew thee well...
What do HAM Radio active missiles and HARM have in common
The simple fact is the F-16 can fully use the AGM-88 to max potential
More the point, the F-16 allows Ukraine greater access more weapons
lol, sure, in a YEAR, once the Ukranian pilots have sufficient training to effectively use the Viper. And that's not talking about a pilot's habit to revert to muscle memory training in a very high stress situation. SO these Ukrainian Sukhoi and MIG pilots are going to have a very hard time if their subconscious goes for MIG/SU controls that WONT BE THERE in the Viper. Seconds count. Just being a realist here, F-16s aren't really going to have a large impact on the conflict. I am sure fanboys will be very mad about this, but Ukraine is losing, and F-16s will only delay defeat, not prevent it. The head of US Armed Forces said as much before congress. This is a political gesture to show "support", nothing more. But flame away, I am sure it will help Ukraine win an impossible situation.
@@TheLavadiver
They dont need a year
Simple launch and leave tactics
The F-16 can Harpoon's from over 100 miles away
Without the Moskava, the remaining ships cant stop them from attacking
Same with ground target
launch and leave
There's no point in in "flaming" intentionally provocative but ill-informed comments. Neither side is going to "lose" the war- do you really think Ukraine may just give up and capitulate to Russia? The question is how long it goes on and what territory ends up on which side when Russia decides it is over. @@TheLavadiver
I am thinking of McGyver.
How feasible would it be to build some sort of radar emitter that just a sends out radar waves to be a decoy. You wouldn’t need to really worry about using it to track to detect, just emitting radar waves to take the hit so the actual surface to air weapon platforms can be somewhat “shielded”.
Hi thanks for the very interesting video
however, I am left with the feeling that the real effectiveness of air defense systems is greatly overestimated
The reason ? they simply represent a billion-dollar business
I try to explain myself
Every air defense system has a really delicate point or two
The radar unit but also the control unit which takes data from the radar and decides which missile to launch
An attack on one of these two units with a carefully chosen combination of kamikaze drones or stealth cruise missiles is sure to eventually hit one of these two units and completely disable the entire system.
I believe that from a strategic point of view the recent news that a 30kUSD kamikaze drone has knocked out a 150MUSD system (i.e. 5000 time the price of the drone) should make us reflect on the extreme vulnerability of these systems
And there is another very important consideration
How many missiles must be fired to intercept an incoming one? one ? two ? more ?
They all understand that a system could deplete all of its missiles quite quickly if used against successive waves of enemy missiles
Even without considering of the huge cost of intercepting missiles compared to incoming ones
I conclude by saying that in my opinion it is enormously easier to hit than to neutralize the blows that come
And the news from the front proves it
I like this having a choice. Go git some😝😝😝👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Very informative. It's like the radar "detectors" that some people have in their cars, to detect police radar.
Yes, learning about RADAR and how the signal is transmitted through the atmosphere can be pretty boring.
But my students always snapped to attention when I mentioned that the same technology is used to monitor the speed of cars on the road and the same with RWR (RADAR Warning Receiver).
Plus missiles to obliterate the speed traps
Mickey Mousing? Where does that name come from? Wikipedia says it's a film technique.
It's slang, much like the word 'jerry-rigged'. I've heard it before.
Thank you from Ukraine, and hope we will see the F16 work soon!
Slava Ukraini, my friend.
Wow,terrible news, we know Ukraine is not getting many and none soon,F-16's.
Missiles have a limited shelf life. Might as well give them to Ukraine rather than having to dispose of them when they reach their "use by" date.
Actually, we had another name for it where I come from, but I'm not even going to go there.
Are the radar receiving sensors passive or active?
Passive. You don't have to send out a signal (active), the enemies RADAR does that for you.
1:37 I believe it's called bodging
Would those missiles still work if you had your radar pointing into your position? So as soon as the enemy passed their defence line their radar would flash targets, would the radar detector missiles be able to turn back on their path or even detect those radar?
Not sure about what you are asking. Could you rephrase it?
@@DreadX10 nah
😮 - turn - your - radars....into, your own direction.....so when the attacking force crossed your defence line...they show up on your radar without detectors picking them up? Therefore a radar detecting missile would have to be able to detect a radar facing away / behind it....could a radar detecting missile detect a reverse facing radar?
@@sorrywhatgetlost
If they show up on your radar-screen, you will already have illuminated them and they know you are there (at least the direction and what kind of radar).
RADARs have a main beam, side-lobes and a rear-spike. The main-beam has about a couple of thousand to a million times more energy in it than the other 'beams'.
If a missile's receiver would be sensitive enough to see the small beams, the main beam's energy would fry its electronics. The missile would also see echo's of whatever the radar illuminates (mostly the ground) and get confused.
You can't turn away the RADAR to a thread it doesn't know is there.
If you turn a radar away from the enemy it is much cheaper to not build a radar in the first place.
Shutting off a radar (or switching to dummy-load) is much faster than turning it away.
Does this help?
@@sorrywhatgetlostThat would mean your air defenses would only be able to go after aerial targets that have made it passed you. The SAMs would have a terrible time trying to catch up to s cruise missile which is their number 1 job.