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From my understanding they called the dead dragon a bad omen because the dragon is still the Sigil of their house. It would be like if the starks were wheeling around dead dire wolves.
additionally its kinslaying and shows the targaryens arent above any other houses. they arent dragon lords selected by the heavens to lead, they are just another family who happens to be able to ride dragons. its all about symbols of power and those symbols are shattering.
….. Aemond killed luke and daemon killed jaehaerys. Why would they be shocked over kinslaying? This is just cope for condal to ignore the hundreds killed in the dragonpit
@@Drpavel564 I really don’t think anyone is thinking about that. We don’t know how many people if any were killed in the dragon pit or if any of the small folk know it was Rhaenys and Meleys. Not that it matters now since they are both dead.
Still dumb writing. That dragon literally mass murdered them and the show just swept it under the rug and Rhaenys never faced any consequences for it. I would've been cheering my ass off that justice was done
Theon wasn’t a bastard he was member of house Greyjoy which rebelled against Robert Baratheon 8 years before the start of game of thrones and Theon was taken as a hostage after the greyjoys were defeated and raised at winterfell to ensure they didn’t rebel again. However in the show bastards have yet to be traitors to their own house.
@@ruchagoddessofpurgatory8513I think we are both right, as he didn’t completely betray his house. He took it over and was ruthlessly vindictive in doing so. But your point is taken and is valid.
Ramsey Snow became Ramsey Bolton, he was a nasty bastard that fought Jon Snow in the "Battle of the Bastards". Imagine a Ramsey Bolton given a dragon? Thats not going to end well. 😬
@@Flexorcist3030 The whole battle of tumbelton did not really make sense. It has dragons basically unalive themselves Probably they will have one turn and the other stay loyal and have the dragons fight. It might be poetic jaherys and alyssanes dragons ending each other.
Both sides are partly to blame... but i don't know the narrative "the full Team black is perfect and the full "Girly teen Hate Cole"... you are in war, you have to be prepared and have a strategy.
a war that team green created chosing ego, power, control over people, realm.. Thats the “team black is perfect” argument, and it can not be contested. No matter how many babies Deamond kills, all happens because Otto and Alicent choose it.
@@DarthPepisyour delusional if you think Alicent can do anything when the king was weak😂 you idiots be saying anything 💯the king was gonna remarry & his first born son gonna have to fight for his life or he's dead
some context for the daemon scenes (no spoilers cause i haven't read the book), old wood (trees with faces) are said to contain the souls of the dead and old gods and the riverlans are full of old wood, so it's a nice touch that when he chops wood he hears screams as if chopping into the dead themselves, or that he has visions of his dead mother who he never knew, old wood are said to give visions, which they do in GOT to bran, but targaryens are especially susceptible to these visions as they are a mystical bloodline and are renowned to be dreamers (aegon the conqueror, viserys and haleana had dreams that prophesized the future), yet daemon always ridiculed his brother's affinity to dreams calling them 'silly dreams'. these visions kind of reflect his guilt and repressed feelings, he feels guilty for pushing raneyra to be what she is, for not honoring his promise to laena, for inspiring aemond to be what he is, he keeps trying to push a square into a circular hole by using force in whatever he does and now he is finally confronted with the consequences of his actions.
@@queenxx1690 trust me I know, I was team black in the book, but no longer. Long live the King! The Greens might suck but at least they keep things interesting
You know, I agree with Lee. Cole cannot be be given even the majority of the responsibility for unleashing dragons in the war... because most of the blame should fall on Aemond: the ambitious psycho who not so secretly desires a war as well as the throne and also does himself have a dragon who we saw planning this campaign with Cole.
Meleys was a beloved dragon that had been around for decades. Rhaenys was also a beloved member of the Targaryen family. So I think Cole parading Meleys through King’s Landing and the people reacting like that is a shock to the people. Also, there’s a clip of a few people even kneeling to Meleys as she’s passing by so it shows their love of her and her rider 💔
All Cole and Aemond did was plan for team black to use dragons. Yes they realized taking rooks rest would cause them to do it, but they didn’t make them use the dragon. Plus are we forgetting they are at war? They are supposed to attack the oppositions castles and lands. That’s kinda the whole point. So then going and blaming Cole for the response of the opps is crazy. The use of dragons was inevitable.
the entire reason cole wanted to take rook’s rest is because he knew rhaenyra would send a dragon to defend it. that was the WHOLE PLAN. so yes, it’s cole’s fault.
Yep. And the blacks were ALREADY using dragons to enforce their naval blockade. Presumably ready and willing to use them to burn ships or attack an enemy dragon. The war was already happening there was no avoiding it
@@penguin50279 No, not really. It was smart to get rid of an enemy dragon knowing that they would be the first to use it. Had he been out there with no backup plan his entire army would've been obliterated bc the blacks were willing to field their dragon
@@MrFredstt yeah but now criston cole wants to be all depressed when he knows what was most likely to happen. “we have given the war to the dragons” no YOU did.
hopefully alicent can finally be a damn mother to her son. the only people who truly cared for him are his kids and sunfyre two of the three are gone step the hell up alicent
HERES MY HOT TAKE: ALICE RIVERS IS A GHOST! Ser Simon hasn’t acknowledged her, he didn’t introduce her to Daemon in first scene. It does appear Simon Strong looks over at Alice in this episode but I think he was looking to see what Daemon was looking at. I think she’s a ghost and all in Daemons head.
The show definitely intentionally made us think that way. The storyline involving Daemon and Alys Rivers, particularly the supernatural elements at Harrenhal, is both intriguing and well-executed. As a reader of the books, I find the portrayal of Alys Rivers by the actress to be exceptional. Her ability to hold her own alongside Matt Smith is impressive, and her performance effectively conveys the character's mysterious motivations and ambitions. This nuanced portrayal adds depth to the character, enhancing the overall narrative of the show.
Cole and Aemond planned to use dragons otherwise Aemond wouldn’t have been lying in wait at Rooks Rest. They knew their move would leave the Black’s with only one option: bring out the dragons.
A good filler episode that develop the children of daemon and rhaenyra more. I still don’t understand y Alicent thinks she should be in charge during war times when all she wanted has been no violence and restraint. Not cole fault that he prepared and predicted the blacks would use a dragon when they r loosing a war he just outsmarted them. Daemon the "great war general" with no army lol Cole is the GOAT so far in the war. Its a nice set up episode for future things to come, Team Green. Looking forward to ur guys future episodes.
We do finally see them making their first few mistakes parading a dragon head and locking down a starving city the small folk no longer care about the royal family, reality finally hit the small folk of no food and the chance of the city burning, aemond and cole are now in position of Otto and things are not as simple as oh people are fleeing so lock the city down, both regent and hand of the king are great warriors but they don’t know how do politics, and not sure but at least Alicent been there with Otto ruling for years and seen to the affairs of the city, I think at least one of the 2 highest position to be someone who actually knows the game
@@cristianbejarano2000 the problem is though Alicent is better off as an advisor to Aemond. All she wanted to do is make peace n no violence n when push comes to shove I don’t think she has the strength to make the hard choices.
yeah she wasnt even leading during peacetime. it was otto and her council doing everything. "these men EARNED their positions, you were just born into it!" - woman who was born into her position and used as a pawn her entire life
I feel like it comes down to at the end of the day, whether you consider the person provoking someone to act a certain way is guilty. If you do then Cole is guilty if you don’t, then Cole isn’t guilty.
People starve because of Rhaenyra blockade now Aemond closed gated both of them did worse than Aegon. Rhaenys killed a lot civilians in dragon pit let's not forget she is not pure
They didn’t mean necessarily that they would get bastards they meant there a members of their line legit married off a generation or two ago that have Targaryen blooded descendants under different banners
When Aemond told to cut rat catcher he made another mistake now people will not fear going against crown again Aegon was right to leave them as a warning people are starving because of Rhaenyra's blockage and now Aemond closed gates
Adorkable is on drugs or tweakin😂that's like me fighting someone & i have a weapon only use it when they pull out they weapon ‼️ it's been war since forever stop forgetting this it's veen up😂like the moment Aegon birth ? Aemond losing his eye ? Luke dying ? Aegon son dying ? Twins dying ? You think now it's cole fault for being ready & having plans ? Literally if team black was together y'all wouldn't ve saying it's team black fault for dragons when luke is dead💯 it's been war I'm tired of y'all each week blaming someone when this been going on
I don't think tb will ever understand that Rhaenyra's council also doesn't want a woman in the throne, even when Rhaenyra says that her own council holds not respect for her and prefer to talk around her and not to her
Deamon's hallucination would've been better and made more sense if it was more with Viserys in it since this was the last thing on his mind after arguing with Raheyra and the main person he is the most sensitive about. Id like to see Viserys from Deamon's perspective and maybe they could add Otto too.
Alicent is not only a woman but she is a Hightower , so the Targaryen succession would end and the Hightower would began. When Viserys and Corlys brokered marriage remember the terms, the kids would be Velerions until they got on the throne.
One thing ill give to the black council. Is they aren't afraid to say their shit, even if they don't agree. They won't hide shit from their queen, they will speak plainly. Vs the Scheming of the green council.
@@hokagedlo6133 "History" and ofc, but that doesn't mean shit lmfao. Half this season has been new shit especially everything involving daemon. Let's not pretend readers know exactly what happened in this one, we have a history told from characters in the story's PoV. Not a novel.
rhaenys and meleys aint the goats that would be Daemon and CARAXES. Daemon told rhaenys they needed to take out vhagar episode one she said no now look at her
It ain’t exactly rocket science lol Daemon has always taken L. The dude got disinherited 1st episode then 3rd episode he barely won a war he was loosing for 3 years, got kicked out of the vale, couldn’t marry Rhaenyra until another 10 years n in season 2 the man cant even build n army while the greens took over the crown lands n have killed 2 dragons
@@jjosifovic who was it that fought of traders in the seven kingdoms and the free cities I’ll wait? Who had the balls to meet with VERMITHOR and Silverwimg to get them ready for war. Bronze Fury is a problem whose team is that dragon right now.. at least Daemon is feeding the people at harrenhal and who can’t feed or pay their subjects I’ll wait?
@@johnwalkeristhatdude3018 lol daemon fought for 3 years n was loosing the war until he did the whole plot armor run. Yes daemon is funding n helping feed the river lands so he can use them for war n guess what they still don’t want him because he use the same tactic with blood n cheese. Taking a broken castle, still no army, not answering his queen letters, n relied on idiots that made everything worse for him. The dude keeps taking L
Adorkable is absolutely right about Cole lol. RockLee is purposefully being obtuse about it. Cole planned to bait Team Black into using a dragon so Vhagar can kill it. Cole DID use a dragon first by getting Aemond and Vhagar out there to begin with!
if only rheanys listend to daemon when he told her to go with him to end vhagar while rheanyra was off doing nothing. then team black would basically have this in the bag. team black complaining about having no one experienced in warfare when daemon basically won the stepstones single handedly. rheanyra should be gathering bannermen and leaving war planning to daemon.
As an old hip hop fan I gave new names to team green. Da brat/King Aegon, Slick Rick/Prince Aemond, Luda Chris/Sir Christon Cole, Old Dirty Bastard/Otto, Queen pin/Alicent, Method man/Larys Strong Team Black Queen Rhaenira/Queen Latifah, King Consort Daemon/Tupac, Princess Rhaenys/MC Lyte, Prince Jace/Fresh Prince, Princess Baela and Princess Rhaena/Conscious Daughters, White Worm Mysaria/Nicki Minaj I want to hear from y'all though. What rapper names would you give to these characters?
I’m with adorkable. Cole really just wanted to push the opps so he can get dragons involved. If he didn’t mean to do that, he would’ve went to harrenhal. He planned for this and is now shocked about the destruction dragons caused. He”technically” didn’t use dragons first but People use technicality when they know they are guilty of something. Cole pushed his hands to get the dragons involved first and that’s facts.
It ain’t Cole fault that he would predict n prepare that if the blacks keep loosing they would sent out a dragon to fight him at rook rest or harrenhall. It ain’t no one fault, each side is playing with whatever cards they have n is utilizing to their brst strengths.
@@jjosifovicit’s not a fault definitely. But he is responsible. Cole in this scenario pushed them using his plan. It was a good plan but indeed he pushed for dragons use.
The issue is more that Cole had never seen a dragon fight. He had never seen the sheer destruction a dragon could bring. He had an idea he figured was brilliant but because he doesn't truly understand dragons and their sheer destructive capacity, he was properly shook afterwards. People need to remember that to Cole, a dragon is just a weapon, a tool to be used by it's rider. That's why he paraded Meleys head in the streets. He doesn't understand why people would react like negatively to that and didn't even think of how the small folk viewed dragons. Imagine showing to the hungry, frustrated and angry populace that the symbol of the house u serve, the very reason they're in power, could actually be taken out. That only makes sense to do if in your pov a dragon is a just a tool.
1. If he had went to Harrenhall. He would face Dameon with a dragon. 2. People use technically when details matter. The argument isn’t about Cristen being at fault , the argument was whether or not he was 100% at fault or not and her argument was that he is 100% at fault. And I’m saying he cannot be 100% at fault because he does not have dragons doesn’t matter what he planned or baited. In order to plan this he needs the cooperation of Prince Aemond…. So even there is now 50/50 accountability. It’s just unreasonable to put 100% of the accountability on Cole when there are other decision-makers in here That’s what I was arguing
It was Cole's plan to lure out The Black's Dragon. That is the problem. His King Aegon wanted Harrenhal. Cole dismissed that and went to Rook's Rest- scheming with Ameond instead. Had he followed his King's command he would have had Aemond and Daemond fighting with dragons but apparently, he was too much of a punk for that. And now he is too much of a punk to admit to Alicient that one of her sons tried to kill the other. Cole has been a complete idiot throughout this whole show. But the actor is killing it - good for him.
I think it was a good plan knowing the blacks would field their dragon and counter it but it was a big mistake going behind his King's back on it and not informing him. Aegon then goes into Rook's Rest thinking it's just gonna be a siege and he'll help out his army taking the castle only to find out it's a fucking dragon battle
I actually get what adorkable is saying... the same can be said for the entire war though by Yourboyrocklee's pov...was Rhaenyra wrong for not rolling over and taking the usurping? Because it's all the same pattern, when Otto and the green council usurped they knew Rhaenyra would react so they laid out the plan to do it ASAP, I mean they couldn't read her mind or control her reactions right...except her reactions were to be expected as anyone would have done the same, now Cole attacks the front porch of the blacks house and he knew she would react because if you did that to anyone's front porch they would react as fast as they could and "as fast as Rhaenyra could"= was dragons, as would anyone. If you spit in someone's face and threaten to kill their kid and they physically can't get away from you they will defend as fast and as best as they can, if you spit in their face and threaten to kill their kid and then get punched or kicked or what have you and sit on the pavement and say "well I never actually punched or kicked them and I didn't ask them to use their bodies to respond, when I was doing what I did I just thought they would watch me" and then you get up and take out boxing gloves and you're like "but hah I brought these gloves to fight coz I totally didn't provoke them hoping and knowing they would fight back, I totally didn't bring these gloves for this here fight I'm using them for it was just a coincidence that I had them at hand", after fighting and realising all's not fun and games can't we say that you went out spoiling for a fight, don't like the results and now are trying to distance yourself from the effects? Its useless at this point to look at who brought dragons first once the war was started, but in this case Crispin really was trying to get them to lose a dragon and an entry route to kingslanding so his own horrors are his own fault...the war in total and its resultant attrocities are however not that man's fault..no House T must hold their own L
I accept your answer because you address the nuances of the situation despite not totally agreeing with my particular statements. Ultimately I think Cole gets unfair distribution of blame. This is a war and not one he started. So I agree with your response
Cole took Rook’s Rest explicitly to draw out the dragons and that’s why Vaghar was sitting there waiting. So, yeah, Cole is 100% at fault. But he’s always been a douche since season 1
alicent is the biggest snooze fest. she literally adds nothing useful other than that boring relationship with coke & the same damn facial expression. get her outta here.
Really? Because George RR Martin says that she's one of the highlights of this season and many fans agree that Olivia Cooke's acting is exceptional. You're just biased and allowing it to ruin your enjoyment of the show. Actors like Cooke and Fabian are putting on a great show, don't lie to yourself. Or maybe some of the character work is just flying over your head.
@@andilezulu292 I love Olivia Cook. I saw her in several indie films at Sundance including, Me, Earl and the dying Girl, and Thoroughbred. She has been an incredible actor for a long time and now I'm happy to see her doing great job as Alicent with HOTD. Love Olivia
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From my understanding they called the dead dragon a bad omen because the dragon is still the Sigil of their house. It would be like if the starks were wheeling around dead dire wolves.
Yes, he didn’t really think this through.
additionally its kinslaying and shows the targaryens arent above any other houses. they arent dragon lords selected by the heavens to lead, they are just another family who happens to be able to ride dragons. its all about symbols of power and those symbols are shattering.
…..
Aemond killed luke and daemon killed jaehaerys. Why would they be shocked over kinslaying? This is just cope for condal to ignore the hundreds killed in the dragonpit
@@Drpavel564 I really don’t think anyone is thinking about that. We don’t know how many people if any were killed in the dragon pit or if any of the small folk know it was Rhaenys and Meleys. Not that it matters now since they are both dead.
Still dumb writing. That dragon literally mass murdered them and the show just swept it under the rug and Rhaenys never faced any consequences for it. I would've been cheering my ass off that justice was done
Theon wasn’t a bastard he was member of house Greyjoy which rebelled against Robert Baratheon 8 years before the start of game of thrones and Theon was taken as a hostage after the greyjoys were defeated and raised at winterfell to ensure they didn’t rebel again.
However in the show bastards have yet to be traitors to their own house.
Ramsay?
@@ruchagoddessofpurgatory8513I think we are both right, as he didn’t completely betray his house. He took it over and was ruthlessly vindictive in doing so. But your point is taken and is valid.
LONG LIVE THE KING AEGON👑 who fight his own battles
Ramsey Snow became Ramsey Bolton, he was a nasty bastard that fought Jon Snow in the "Battle of the Bastards". Imagine a Ramsey Bolton given a dragon? Thats not going to end well. 😬
except people love jace 😂
Hugh's Wife: We can go to Tumbleton, my brother has space for us!
Me: Wow......
Must really despise his brother in law considering what he will later do to that town 😂
@@drrohanjacob He seems cool so i bet its some sort of "we have your family"
@@Flexorcist3030 They are determined to do that probably
@@drrohanjacob yea i think its for the best. Its just very convenient to turn twice with no bigger purpose. They already set up the other one for that
@@Flexorcist3030 The whole battle of tumbelton did not really make sense.
It has dragons basically unalive themselves
Probably they will have one turn and the other stay loyal and have the dragons fight.
It might be poetic jaherys and alyssanes dragons ending each other.
Both sides are partly to blame... but i don't know the narrative "the full Team black is perfect and the full "Girly teen Hate Cole"... you are in war, you have to be prepared and have a strategy.
a war that team green created chosing ego, power, control over people, realm..
Thats the “team black is perfect” argument, and it can not be contested. No matter how many babies Deamond kills, all happens because Otto and Alicent choose it.
@@DarthPepisyour delusional if you think Alicent can do anything when the king was weak😂 you idiots be saying anything 💯the king was gonna remarry & his first born son gonna have to fight for his life or he's dead
Aegon:What would you have me do ? -He is pathetic idiot
Rhaenyra:What would you have me do ? -Yeah she was want to act
People hypocrisy
some context for the daemon scenes (no spoilers cause i haven't read the book), old wood (trees with faces) are said to contain the souls of the dead and old gods and the riverlans are full of old wood, so it's a nice touch that when he chops wood he hears screams as if chopping into the dead themselves, or that he has visions of his dead mother who he never knew, old wood are said to give visions, which they do in GOT to bran, but targaryens are especially susceptible to these visions as they are a mystical bloodline and are renowned to be dreamers (aegon the conqueror, viserys and haleana had dreams that prophesized the future), yet daemon always ridiculed his brother's affinity to dreams calling them 'silly dreams'.
these visions kind of reflect his guilt and repressed feelings, he feels guilty for pushing raneyra to be what she is, for not honoring his promise to laena, for inspiring aemond to be what he is, he keeps trying to push a square into a circular hole by using force in whatever he does and now he is finally confronted with the consequences of his actions.
rocklee the man that debate was comical in a good way
Team Black logic is crazy 😅
They are never at fault
@@hokagedlo6133 Yeah...never people starve because of Rhaenyra blockade,Rhaenys killed a lot civilians in dragon pit nothing happen
@@queenxx1690 trust me I know, I was team black in the book, but no longer. Long live the King! The Greens might suck but at least they keep things interesting
@@hokagedlo6133 Long live the king 💛Aegon and Sunfyer the golden boy
No accountability on Adorkables part was adorable to watch. Lol.
She is delusional😂 it's like me fighting someone when I have a weapon don't use it until they do & I'm the bad guy🤦🏾♂️
You know, I agree with Lee. Cole cannot be be given even the majority of the responsibility for unleashing dragons in the war... because most of the blame should fall on Aemond: the ambitious psycho who not so secretly desires a war as well as the throne and also does himself have a dragon who we saw planning this campaign with Cole.
Meleys was a beloved dragon that had been around for decades. Rhaenys was also a beloved member of the Targaryen family. So I think Cole parading Meleys through King’s Landing and the people reacting like that is a shock to the people. Also, there’s a clip of a few people even kneeling to Meleys as she’s passing by so it shows their love of her and her rider 💔
Makes sense now. Thank you
ah yes that dragon that has killed many people a week ago.
Long live the King 👑
All Cole and Aemond did was plan for team black to use dragons. Yes they realized taking rooks rest would cause them to do it, but they didn’t make them use the dragon. Plus are we forgetting they are at war? They are supposed to attack the oppositions castles and lands. That’s kinda the whole point. So then going and blaming Cole for the response of the opps is crazy. The use of dragons was inevitable.
@@yoboyrob201 fam knows logic
the entire reason cole wanted to take rook’s rest is because he knew rhaenyra would send a dragon to defend it. that was the WHOLE PLAN. so yes, it’s cole’s fault.
Yep. And the blacks were ALREADY using dragons to enforce their naval blockade. Presumably ready and willing to use them to burn ships or attack an enemy dragon. The war was already happening there was no avoiding it
@@penguin50279 No, not really. It was smart to get rid of an enemy dragon knowing that they would be the first to use it. Had he been out there with no backup plan his entire army would've been obliterated bc the blacks were willing to field their dragon
@@MrFredstt yeah but now criston cole wants to be all depressed when he knows what was most likely to happen. “we have given the war to the dragons” no YOU did.
Jace just gave castle where his real father's family lives including Simon Strong who support his mother to Freys great decision Jace big brain
One could say it’s jaces castle to rightfully give lol
hopefully alicent can finally be a damn mother to her son. the only people who truly cared for him are his kids and sunfyre two of the three are gone step the hell up alicent
Sunfyre is still alive. Cole said in this episode, the blacks think he's dead because he fell. He is like his rider, just wounded.
HERES MY HOT TAKE:
ALICE RIVERS IS A GHOST!
Ser Simon hasn’t acknowledged her, he didn’t introduce her to Daemon in first scene. It does appear Simon Strong looks over at Alice in this episode but I think he was looking to see what Daemon was looking at. I think she’s a ghost and all in Daemons head.
I thought the same thing. He (Simon Strong) looked behind her, like "What is he (Daemon) looking at?"
The show definitely intentionally made us think that way. The storyline involving Daemon and Alys Rivers, particularly the supernatural elements at Harrenhal, is both intriguing and well-executed. As a reader of the books, I find the portrayal of Alys Rivers by the actress to be exceptional. Her ability to hold her own alongside Matt Smith is impressive, and her performance effectively conveys the character's mysterious motivations and ambitions. This nuanced portrayal adds depth to the character, enhancing the overall narrative of the show.
the called alicent queen during viserys days as king and they say ur grace to her
That dog gon be sitting in the grave yard the rest of his life if someone dont take him in
Cole and Aemond planned to use dragons otherwise Aemond wouldn’t have been lying in wait at Rooks Rest. They knew their move would leave the Black’s with only one option: bring out the dragons.
@@zbrewed exactly. So Cole and Aemond
A good filler episode that develop the children of daemon and rhaenyra more. I still don’t understand y Alicent thinks she should be in charge during war times when all she wanted has been no violence and restraint. Not cole fault that he prepared and predicted the blacks would use a dragon when they r loosing a war he just outsmarted them.
Daemon the "great war general" with no army lol Cole is the GOAT so far in the war. Its a nice set up episode for future things to come, Team Green. Looking forward to ur guys future episodes.
We do finally see them making their first few mistakes parading a dragon head and locking down a starving city the small folk no longer care about the royal family, reality finally hit the small folk of no food and the chance of the city burning, aemond and cole are now in position of Otto and things are not as simple as oh people are fleeing so lock the city down, both regent and hand of the king are great warriors but they don’t know how do politics, and not sure but at least Alicent been there with Otto ruling for years and seen to the affairs of the city, I think at least one of the 2 highest position to be someone who actually knows the game
@@cristianbejarano2000 the problem is though Alicent is better off as an advisor to Aemond. All she wanted to do is make peace n no violence n when push comes to shove I don’t think she has the strength to make the hard choices.
greens are boring
@@idkimjustafanRhaenera is the most boring character in the entire show. Can’t wait 🎉Aegon’s dragon to eat her in front of her brat😂😂
yeah she wasnt even leading during peacetime. it was otto and her council doing everything. "these men EARNED their positions, you were just born into it!" - woman who was born into her position and used as a pawn her entire life
Rhaenyra could sit on Dragonstone and get support instead she did nothing for 10 years she could learn how to fight just like Visery she never wanted
Team Green anyday 💚
🐍🐍🐍
Yup Daemon really dream cheated on his Wife/Niece with his Mother 😂😂
Now that MY one true king Aemond targaryen is incharge we can finally cooking!
The thing is THAT foolish idea was Alicent and not Aemon xD, that was Her idea in the original.
Aegon said Dracarys when he initiated the fight. He didn’t have the opportunity to say it again.
I feel like it comes down to at the end of the day, whether you consider the person provoking someone to act a certain way is guilty. If you do then Cole is guilty if you don’t, then Cole isn’t guilty.
People starve because of Rhaenyra blockade now Aemond closed gated both of them did worse than Aegon.
Rhaenys killed a lot civilians in dragon pit let's not forget she is not pure
They didn’t mean necessarily that they would get bastards they meant there a members of their line legit married off a generation or two ago that have Targaryen blooded descendants under different banners
im here for the alicent slander shes getting in kings landing
real
Aegon did not lie with payment it is just Otto and Tyland that never payed and ignored Aegon's command
When Aemond told to cut rat catcher he made another mistake now people will not fear going against crown again Aegon was right to leave them as a warning people are starving because of Rhaenyra's blockage and now Aemond closed gates
Daemon wants to be king to get back at all those who made fun of him for not having EYEBROWS
Targaryens don't do parents-children incest even they don't go that far
Adorkable is on drugs or tweakin😂that's like me fighting someone & i have a weapon only use it when they pull out they weapon ‼️ it's been war since forever stop forgetting this it's veen up😂like the moment Aegon birth ? Aemond losing his eye ? Luke dying ? Aegon son dying ? Twins dying ? You think now it's cole fault for being ready & having plans ? Literally if team black was together y'all wouldn't ve saying it's team black fault for dragons when luke is dead💯 it's been war I'm tired of y'all each week blaming someone when this been going on
I don't think tb will ever understand that Rhaenyra's council also doesn't want a woman in the throne, even when Rhaenyra says that her own council holds not respect for her and prefer to talk around her and not to her
Vermithor and Silverwing has entered the chat
Love you guys!!!
Deamon's hallucination would've been better and made more sense if it was more with Viserys in it since this was the last thing on his mind after arguing with Raheyra and the main person he is the most sensitive about. Id like to see Viserys from Deamon's perspective and maybe they could add Otto too.
Theon was not a bastard lmao
Alicent is not only a woman but she is a Hightower , so the Targaryen succession would end and the Hightower would began. When Viserys and Corlys brokered marriage remember the terms, the kids would be Velerions until they got on the throne.
They keep changing Cole's character.
One thing ill give to the black council. Is they aren't afraid to say their shit, even if they don't agree. They won't hide shit from their queen, they will speak plainly. Vs the Scheming of the green council.
😂 have you read the book?
@@hokagedlo6133 shut up
@@rexibhazoboa7097EAD🤡🤡
@@hokagedlo6133 "History" and ofc, but that doesn't mean shit lmfao. Half this season has been new shit especially everything involving daemon. Let's not pretend readers know exactly what happened in this one, we have a history told from characters in the story's PoV. Not a novel.
Shit from a readers perspective most of this season until the most recent of recent scenes played not much importance minus battles.
rhaenys and meleys aint the goats that would be Daemon and CARAXES. Daemon told rhaenys they needed to take out vhagar episode one she said no now look at her
It ain’t exactly rocket science lol
Daemon has always taken L. The dude got disinherited 1st episode then 3rd episode he barely won a war he was loosing for 3 years, got kicked out of the vale, couldn’t marry Rhaenyra until another 10 years n in season 2 the man cant even build n army while the greens took over the crown lands n have killed 2 dragons
@@jjosifovic who was it that fought of traders in the seven kingdoms and the free cities I’ll wait? Who had the balls to meet with VERMITHOR and Silverwimg to get them ready for war. Bronze Fury is a problem whose team is that dragon right now.. at least Daemon is feeding the people at harrenhal and who can’t feed or pay their subjects I’ll wait?
@@johnwalkeristhatdude3018 lol daemon fought for 3 years n was loosing the war until he did the whole plot armor run. Yes daemon is funding n helping feed the river lands so he can use them for war n guess what they still don’t want him because he use the same tactic with blood n cheese.
Taking a broken castle, still no army, not answering his queen letters, n relied on idiots that made everything worse for him. The dude keeps taking L
Adorkable is absolutely right about Cole lol. RockLee is purposefully being obtuse about it. Cole planned to bait Team Black into using a dragon so Vhagar can kill it. Cole DID use a dragon first by getting Aemond and Vhagar out there to begin with!
Wrong!
if only rheanys listend to daemon when he told her to go with him to end vhagar while rheanyra was off doing nothing. then team black would basically have this in the bag. team black complaining about having no one experienced in warfare when daemon basically won the stepstones single handedly. rheanyra should be gathering bannermen and leaving war planning to daemon.
Regarding the dog 🐕 ..it just needed closure 🙃
HOUSE BRACKEN IS BEST!!!!
As an old hip hop fan I gave new names to team green. Da brat/King Aegon, Slick Rick/Prince Aemond, Luda Chris/Sir Christon Cole, Old Dirty Bastard/Otto, Queen pin/Alicent, Method man/Larys Strong
Team Black
Queen Rhaenira/Queen Latifah, King Consort Daemon/Tupac, Princess Rhaenys/MC Lyte, Prince Jace/Fresh Prince, Princess Baela and Princess Rhaena/Conscious Daughters, White Worm Mysaria/Nicki Minaj
I want to hear from y'all though. What rapper names would you give to these characters?
Rhaenrya has the legitmate cllaim
Nah im team black but adorkable trippin.
I’m with adorkable. Cole really just wanted to push the opps so he can get dragons involved. If he didn’t mean to do that, he would’ve went to harrenhal. He planned for this and is now shocked about the destruction dragons caused. He”technically” didn’t use dragons first but People use technicality when they know they are guilty of something. Cole pushed his hands to get the dragons involved first and that’s facts.
Dont forget Aemond. Infact I think Aemond just was high of haveing the largest dragon and was anxious to use it.
It ain’t Cole fault that he would predict n prepare that if the blacks keep loosing they would sent out a dragon to fight him at rook rest or harrenhall. It ain’t no one fault, each side is playing with whatever cards they have n is utilizing to their brst strengths.
@@jjosifovicit’s not a fault definitely. But he is responsible. Cole in this scenario pushed them using his plan. It was a good plan but indeed he pushed for dragons use.
The issue is more that Cole had never seen a dragon fight. He had never seen the sheer destruction a dragon could bring. He had an idea he figured was brilliant but because he doesn't truly understand dragons and their sheer destructive capacity, he was properly shook afterwards. People need to remember that to Cole, a dragon is just a weapon, a tool to be used by it's rider. That's why he paraded Meleys head in the streets. He doesn't understand why people would react like negatively to that and didn't even think of how the small folk viewed dragons. Imagine showing to the hungry, frustrated and angry populace that the symbol of the house u serve, the very reason they're in power, could actually be taken out. That only makes sense to do if in your pov a dragon is a just a tool.
1. If he had went to Harrenhall. He would face Dameon with a dragon.
2. People use technically when details matter.
The argument isn’t about Cristen being at fault , the argument was whether or not he was 100% at fault or not and her argument was that he is 100% at fault.
And I’m saying he cannot be 100% at fault because he does not have dragons doesn’t matter what he planned or baited. In order to plan this he needs the cooperation of Prince Aemond…. So even there is now 50/50 accountability.
It’s just unreasonable to put 100% of the accountability on Cole when there are other decision-makers in here
That’s what I was arguing
It was Cole's plan to lure out The Black's Dragon. That is the problem. His King Aegon wanted Harrenhal. Cole dismissed that and went to Rook's Rest- scheming with Ameond instead. Had he followed his King's command he would have had Aemond and Daemond fighting with dragons but apparently, he was too much of a punk for that. And now he is too much of a punk to admit to Alicient that one of her sons tried to kill the other. Cole has been a complete idiot throughout this whole show. But the actor is killing it - good for him.
I think it was a good plan knowing the blacks would field their dragon and counter it but it was a big mistake going behind his King's back on it and not informing him. Aegon then goes into Rook's Rest thinking it's just gonna be a siege and he'll help out his army taking the castle only to find out it's a fucking dragon battle
I actually get what adorkable is saying... the same can be said for the entire war though by Yourboyrocklee's pov...was Rhaenyra wrong for not rolling over and taking the usurping? Because it's all the same pattern, when Otto and the green council usurped they knew Rhaenyra would react so they laid out the plan to do it ASAP, I mean they couldn't read her mind or control her reactions right...except her reactions were to be expected as anyone would have done the same, now Cole attacks the front porch of the blacks house and he knew she would react because if you did that to anyone's front porch they would react as fast as they could and "as fast as Rhaenyra could"= was dragons, as would anyone. If you spit in someone's face and threaten to kill their kid and they physically can't get away from you they will defend as fast and as best as they can, if you spit in their face and threaten to kill their kid and then get punched or kicked or what have you and sit on the pavement and say "well I never actually punched or kicked them and I didn't ask them to use their bodies to respond, when I was doing what I did I just thought they would watch me" and then you get up and take out boxing gloves and you're like "but hah I brought these gloves to fight coz I totally didn't provoke them hoping and knowing they would fight back, I totally didn't bring these gloves for this here fight I'm using them for it was just a coincidence that I had them at hand", after fighting and realising all's not fun and games can't we say that you went out spoiling for a fight, don't like the results and now are trying to distance yourself from the effects?
Its useless at this point to look at who brought dragons first once the war was started, but in this case Crispin really was trying to get them to lose a dragon and an entry route to kingslanding so his own horrors are his own fault...the war in total and its resultant attrocities are however not that man's fault..no House T must hold their own L
I accept your answer because you address the nuances of the situation despite not totally agreeing with my particular statements.
Ultimately I think Cole gets unfair distribution of blame.
This is a war and not one he started.
So I agree with your response
Cole took Rook’s Rest explicitly to draw out the dragons and that’s why Vaghar was sitting there waiting. So, yeah, Cole is 100% at fault. But he’s always been a douche since season 1
100% cole and the people with dragons…0%.
Got it
@@YaBoyRockLee dude couldn't take no for an answer so helped start a civil war. I have no sympathy for him
@@imthesteinyou 🤡s are stupid AF like your argument is 🗑️
alicent is the biggest snooze fest. she literally adds nothing useful other than that boring relationship with coke & the same damn facial expression. get her outta here.
Really? Because George RR Martin says that she's one of the highlights of this season and many fans agree that Olivia Cooke's acting is exceptional. You're just biased and allowing it to ruin your enjoyment of the show. Actors like Cooke and Fabian are putting on a great show, don't lie to yourself. Or maybe some of the character work is just flying over your head.
@@andilezulu292 I love Olivia Cook. I saw her in several indie films at Sundance including, Me, Earl and the dying Girl, and Thoroughbred. She has been an incredible actor for a long time and now I'm happy to see her doing great job as Alicent with HOTD. Love Olivia