Advanced Tuning for Violin (and other stringed instruments)
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2018
- Sample lesson from my fabulous Suzuki Violin Book 3 course: www.reddesertviolin.com/suzuki...
demonstrates what we call "tuning to 5ths". People don't realize that one of the main keys to this skill is THE ABILITY TO PULL A LONG, SMOOTH, BOW STROKE!
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Dear Lora, your description and demonstration of the sound of a perfect fifth on the violin starting at 7:18 is EXACTLY what I have been looking for! I knew for a long time that tuning the strings in perfect fifths was preferable to tuning in equal temperament, but I struggled to find an explanation of what that should sound like. Your description of the "warbles" and how we should try to reduce the frequency/rate of them, as well as your demonstration of varying amounts of warble, has shed so much light to me. Thank you!
Awesome, Eric. Thanks for that feedback!
After two years of playing I finally understand why a perfect 5th is called perfect and I hear the wobble for the first time. Thank you.
LOL.....yep.....it's either perfect.....or it's wrong!
Wow that is truly a lightbulb moment Thankyou for that essential divice. That will stay with me for ever Profoundly useful X
I'm really glad you "got it". It really is a light-bulb when you hear those pulsations for the first time! Keep up the good work!
My violin teacher >>tried
Thank you very much for your comment, Lu0844. I am so glad you found it helpful! Keep up the good work, I love students who supplement their learning with the awesome resource of CZcams!
Warble on 10:05 was a really good example. This video helps me a lot. Thank you.
Glad it helped! Thanks for time-stamping the spot. Yeah, it jumped out at that spot!
Been trying to master how to tune this just gave me the perfect way to do it. Thank you
Wow, this is so helpful! Thank you!
Thank you for this video, I’ve been wanting to learn to tune this way!
Fantastical! Thank you so much!
Excellent demonstration. Thank you.
Yes, once you hear those warbles, you know what to listen for!
Really heard the warbles on the D+G combo. I'd never been taught to tune this way - thank you for such a great lesson!
I was happy the microphone really picked that up! Glad it helped!
Never thought i would be so happy hearing a wobble. Thank you for the lesson!
LOL! Hooray for wobbles! Glad you heard it!
Thank you so much for this! I'm not at this point yet as I just started learning the violin about 3 weeks ago. But, you explained this beautifully and I am much less nervous now about attempting this later down the road. Thank you for this video
Thank you so much. My daughter, 4th grade, is going to try the violin this year. I have very limited knowledge with violins, but enjoy guitars. My first thought about pegs were "They're horrible" lol. Learned I could scuff them and push them in hard to get them to hold. But the accuracy left much to be desired. Didn't even know about the fine tuners till now, and the ways to obtain a beautiful sound you expect from a violin. All the information you've given me will help me help my daughter get the best experience she can obtain. Thanks again.
Great , detaied instruction. Thank ypu Laura!
Thanks, Francis! Much appreciated!
Lora thank you so much for your perfect explanation of the wobble sound in running playing both strings it’s definitely a trick that many don’t know and was looking for explanation! Thank you :)
You are so welcome! I'm glad the microphone really caught it! Good luck!
Brilliant love it, just subscribed. Played the guitar for thirty years and know what to listen for, completely different with violin.
I know several guitarists who are taking up violin. I think MANY of the skills transfer. The hardest for guitarists is the darned bow! But if you focus on that, you'll make fast progress.
OMG THANK YOU!!! I get it now!!!!!!
WOW! That is the first time I understood how this is done! Thank you so much!
So glad! Once someone really hears it, you know what you're aiming for. Remember, in order to do what I did on the video, it takes a very steady bow stroke, long and sustained, so make sure you develope that technique. Good luck!
Thank you very much. Perfect explanation!
The microphone really caught it, I was happy. Thanks for watching.
Thank you so much teacher Lora! I've been looking for this kind of video that tells about how to tune the violin by ear(in 5ths) and i found this video very helpful. I already tried it and heard the wobbly sound on my violin. But i think i have to practice it more often to get my ear used to it. 😉 Again, Thank you so much! 😊
Glad it was helpful! Remember....your bow control has a great deal to do with your success of tuning in 5ths. Practice your long, perfect stroke on 2 strings!
Excellent explanation! 🤗
Thanks, Carolina!
Fascinating, Captain!
Thank you, Mike!
Extremely helpful!
Good! Glad it helped!
This video helps me a lot thanks for that👍🏻
You are most welcome!
I so agree with lu0844. I've watched one teacher ask me if I heard it was out of tune and then proceed as if I had. My other teacher just tunes it using fifths at the beginning of the lesson and lets me watch passively. I've tried to hear it myself and no such luck, usually, like you say in the video, I should make it completely out of tune first so that i can hear the warble. This is the first time I've really heard it. With relatively low tech, you manage to teach so many things in your videos. I am thankful.
I appreciate your comment, Bill. I hope in the video I explain the importance of a good, smooth, stable bow stroke. (I think I did, but not sure) Good luck!
Red Desert Violin You made it clear. I don’t always manage. Not as consistently as you do in the video. Of course. But, hey, that’s another technique I have to learn. So now I’ve got another reason to learn it.
The best teacher ever! Explained very well! Thank you so much 😊 could you please do a tutorial on spring, the four seasons by Vivaldi pleeeeaaase?!
Ooh, that is a GREAT piece, one of my faves. As soon as I am FINISHED filming Suzuki BOok 4, my plan is to do tutorials on great repertoire. Thanks for the idea. (it's gonna be awhile before I get to it....sorry to say)
Just start trying to learn how to tune with perfect fifth. Couldn’t get quite a hang of it till I found your video.
Thank you!!!
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW Ive been using tuning app for 10 years now I know how to tune by year thats so perfect thx!
YES! Once you learn to hear it, you are half way there. Next, you have to learn to master the peg action!
Thanks!
That's really helpful. . . !!!
Great! I'm glad you could hear the warbles!
I would rather use fine tuners, however, not all strings can handle them, only certain brands like Helicores are OK, however, I learned by trial and error. Dominants would fray on my A string every time! My classical teacher used ivory soap bar on his pegs, then quickly wiped them off, so they wouldn’t slip too much. It seemed to work for peg tuning. You are brilliant with all of your knowledge! I’m always learning from you! Thank you Lora!
I started learning the violin today and I’ve already tuned the violin with a tuner before I saw this. Thank you for demonstrating the sound of the warble! I’m passionate about music and hearing that made me so excited and happy that I teared up a little. Happy that I’m able to recognize it and excited to start practicing 40hrs a day!! 😂👍🏾
Gosh, I’m starting to realize why it feels and sounds SO good to hear an orchestra as they’re getting in tune💕
LOL....hopefully you don't practice 40 hours per day....
I'm so happy the video lit something up for you.
Wow....it DOES feel good, doesn't it?! Like a little ear massage.
@@RedDesertViolin Haha I dont practice 40hrs a day 😂 Its a new joke in the music community about how you'll "never be as good as Lingling unless you practice 40hrs a day". Its not real but it feels like it😂
Great video.
I hope it helped!
@@RedDesertViolin Yes, thanks. I’ve been using a tuner recently to tune just the A string. Then D in 5ths from the A and the G in 5ths from the D as you have suggested. The tuner shows the D to be around 5 cents flat now and the G around 10? cents flat. As I fundamentally play fretted instruments and in different keys, I’m now trying to work out the best compromise to make everything gel ok together. Work in progress. Take care.
I HEARD THAT, Thank you teacher. You really help me :)
COOL! Glad you heard it. It just takes practice and bow control! Good luck!
Maravilhoso 🙌
Eu amei o vídeo , muito obrigado estou assistindo todos os vídeos e tentando aprender hahaha está perfeito, Sz
Não a nada melhor q uma Linda mulher Com um violino hahah
Thank you, Andres! Obrigado!
Red Desert Violin Red Desert Violin 😍😍😍😍 Thank you teacher 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Que Honra a senhorita me responder Sz
Mil Beijos dos seus Alunos do brasil e chile ♡
Wow, I thought I was musically deaf and never able to distinguish what you have explained here. BUT I WASN'T!!!! I could hear those "out of tune trains" and how they disappeared. It's been an amazing experience, now I just have to practice that and only use my electronic tuner to check my results. I'm a vionlin self learner, too old and with little time to assist to classes, I wanted to start fast so I started playing easy songs like greensleeves, and the like. Then I tried longer pieces like Jesu joy of man's desiring, after that Pachebel Cannon's. In the road I tried to correct the many errors that I was developing watching video tuts. It was really nice to start identiying the "right" note just by playing it and feeling the vibration, the G note on the D string in my case is easy to identify when my fingers are lost without the markers. Wathching your explanation and listening to your example brought this to the next level. I appear to be deaf no more :P. Thank you very much.
The deaf shall hear and the blind shall see!!! I am SO happy to hear that you are having success learning violin on yourown! Keep up the good work!
This was great- I was focusing too much on the actual sound and not the texture of the sound (degree of warble). A little hard to hear in the video- but when you sounded it out alongside of the playing, you could discern it on the violin. Tuning the instrument to fifths and actually hearing that is also very important when learning to play by ear. Thanks.
Hey Pat, YES, once you learn to hear a perfect 5th, you never forget it. And yes, it's important for playing by ear. Keep it up!
I snapped the peg box at the A string hole using the peg tuning . Thanks for you non recommendation of the Wittmere gear pegs
I've had terrible luck with mechanical pegs. I'm sorry you snapped your peg box! That will require professional repair.
@@RedDesertViolin that violin gone I still used it with 3 string numerous years ago
So I've the other brand of gear pegs are not reliable. Maybe I better take up mandolin
Am from Singapore and I have learnt so much from you. Do you provide online lessons?
Hi Rameish, yes I have excellent online lessons. What level would you say you are? You can learn more, and get a free "starter" membership at www.RedDesertViolin.com.
Don't sing in public
Don't feed pigeons
Don't run around naked In your house
Don't fail to flush
Don't use someone else's unsecured wifi
I reach my right hand over after every little passage and just brush them across all of the strings open....I can pick out what might be wrong... and even with the guitar, I am used to strings constantly being slightly "off"... they NEVER stay perfect. They stretch, the wood expands and contracts, there are certain "places" on the neck (fingerboard) that just don't allow for perfect intonation. You will always have intonation issues from the back of the tailpiece to the tuners, to the bridge, on the bridge and over the bridge and to the nut and from there to the pegs. Playing an instrument is always going to be as involved as tuning. In other words, don't ever expect to play a stringed instrument without tuning it or checking the tuning intermittently throughout your session. The nightmare is when you are performing and string or something even more serious breaks. You can have a spare instrument to grab as a backup, but with these instruments, the tension of one string is not only dependent on the tension of the others but is also extremely affected by the others. (Don't expect to finish the piece if you are performing with just three strings).. and... If you have just put a brand new G string on... expect to have tuning issues with the other strings until that G is worn in. If you ever do something like pulling off all of your strings at one time, unless you are an expert, you have just invited in maximum violin drama. Change only ONE string at a time. For guitar players with "floating" tailpieces, I recommend the same thing. Just because I do it does it mean you can, or just because the guy at the music store does it doesn't mean you can either. There is a balance. If your fine tuner is nearly tightened down all the way, back it off to the height of the others and use your peg and get the note close, then go back to the fine tuner. Tuning is just like anything else. Its just as important as learning about music theory. It s just as important as learning a song. It's just as important as bowing. Literally EVERYTHING on the violin is extremely sensitive.. and matters, unlike most instruments, which are much more forgiving. Come to think of it, I don't think the violin has a lick of forgiveness in it, anywhere, at any time. You can't just make a "mistake" and brush it off and hope nobody heard it like you can on other instruments. Everything always has to be based on exacting precision, which is something to consider before even picking one up, which leads to another HUGE issue: Placement, stability and comfort. Finding out whether or not you need a side chin rest, a pad or a shoulder rest is already a huge endeavor prior to even thinking about playing a note. If you can't hold the thing, you sure aren't going to play it anytime soon. Hell, you may even find yourself become an expert on the human anatomy! The violin for me is a love/hate relationship and I am glad that it is not the only stringed instrument that I play. The guitar is a very forgiving instrument and does help somewhat with a "crossover" to the violin...but not much. E,A,D,G... well, that may be a similarity, possibly trills... but you don't "bend" notes on the violin... at the same time, there is no fret noise. Like I said, a certain "crossover" but be prepared if you are thinking of picking up the violin that no matter how advanced you are musically, you will likely be Youtubing nearly every aspect of your instrument, and likely hiring a good instructor. Violins should be called "Musical Drama Queens"
Hey Lora, thanks so much. I always tune "on the shoulder" but I didn't know the perfect 5th technique.
Now I have a problem. I've just removed all my fine tuners but the E and I don't know how to tune with pegs only. Do you have a tutorial or advice for me? So I tune on the lap (aaaarg)
Many thanks!
Hi Microrato,
My advice is: learn to tune with the pegs. You have to make sure they fit the violin perfectly or they won't turn smoothly. Most shop violins, the pegs are okay, but ALL PEGS NEED PEG COMPOUND!!! So buy that, and put it on your pegs. Then, just work with them. Practice turning them as you push in...using only your left hand.
Learning to tune with pegs is harder than most people appreciate. It can take years.
With that in mind.....can you put fine tuners back on, as you work with your pegs.....just as a safety net? I would sure recommend that.
There is also mechanical pegs.....but I've had bad experiences withe them (3 attempts!!!) and so I won't use them....but my professional colleagues love them.
Just know: using pegs like a pro can take years, so give it time.
Hello! Would you say that this is the prevailing tuning to have the violin in? I ask this because if the violin is tuned in perfect Pythagorean fifths (3:2 ratio) it is not going to match instruments tuned in Equal Temperament (at least the open strings will not). Is it situational, i.e. tune in Equal Temperament when playing with other instruments and Pythagorean fifths when not? I have always tuned in the methodology that you are demonstrating here, and had not ever really considered the repercussions when playing with instruments using Equal Temperament until recently.
Hi! You are correct...it becomes an issue when playing with other instruments. I have always been told when playing with a piano: tune the E,A,D to perfect Pythagorean fifths (as shown in this video), but then tune your G to the piano G. That sort of splits the difference....because the issue is most pronounced when you get to the G string.
Gotta be honest: I'm still figuring out how to solve the issue when playing with a guitarist. So, I don't have all the answers......but I can say: you are asking the right questions!!! Good luck!
I have Whittner fine tuners on one of my violins and I haven’t had a problem with them. May I ask what was your experience with them?
Angel, I am SO GLAD you wrote. So I THOUGHT the pegs installed on my violin were Whittners. But maybe I was wrong. My complaint about the pegs: 1) They had little "bumps" in the action....like it was rotating around little ball bearings.....and inevitably, my perfect 5th was RIGHT inbetween the ball bearings.....so I could never get it perfect. 2) The pegs the guy put on my violin were FAT, so he bored out huge peg holes. (not Whittner fault) 3) Eventually, the pegs would not HOLD the string.....I'd tune it up, and it would loosen.....out of tune....loosing tension. SO: Do you feel little ball bearings on your pegs?
Red Desert Violin ah I see, thanks for your reply! I guess I was fortunate for a good set of tuners thus far but I do see that happening with ball bearings. If I had a perfect fifth that was between a bearing I would have done the same thing and switched to normal pegs or strings lol
Angel, I have an update: I got Whittner FINE TUNE pegs installed, and they do not have the ball bearing issue. But I'm afraid I still don't like them. It's like the gears get stuck.....I will turn the peg and nothing happens and then all of a sudden it's like TWANGANG....the string jumps a whole semi-tone. I am disgusted with mechanical pegs, and sadly, I do not recommend them.
Red Desert Violin thanks for the update! Sadly anything mechanical can sometimes have the most vital flaws. I am lucky that I don’t have that problem with mine but I do agree that I have these fine tuners on my cheaper violin. My more expensive violin will always have regular custom wooden pegs. They slide and stay just as effortlessly
Just a question if I may. As a complete beginner who knows nothing, while you are finding this perfect fifth on the A and D strings , which one are you adjusting in relation to the other ? Please forgive my ignorance and thank you.
Oh wow, that's a great question, Isobar. I should have addressed that.
So, when tuning a stringed instrument, we always tune A first. (because that is the most universal tuning note for all instruments.....so it's sort of like ground zero)
THEN, play A with D, and tune your D.
Then play D with G, and tune your G.
Finally play A with E, and tune your E.
So when I was playing A with D, I know I had to be tuning the D string, because that's the only way I ever do it.
Great question.
@@RedDesertViolin .Most grateful for your reply and explanation. I can' even get passed the stage where the violin is comfortable, no matter how I hold it...and the pain in my arm and wrist appears to not want to go away...I'm at the point of giving up! Thanks again.
Maybe this is silly but is it possible to tune down each string by a whole step so G string becomes F, D string becomes C and so forth, so the notes up on the finger board would be easier to reach 😅
Interesting idea. But you'd have to tune the strings HIGHER, so that notes fingered in lower positions would sound higher pitches....and that would sound awful, and could damage the violin. Tuning lower would be okay, it wouldn't damage the violin....but the tone would be different, less powerful, a little mushy. But interesting idea.
Ouch! Poor "WIttmer" ~ I guess they need to up their game because they just lost out on an endorsement.
$100 is too cheap for any tuners. I dont know if it's possible to tune by harmonics like instruments tuned in 4ths.
I don't know why the 'ga ga ga' made it all click, but I'll take it.
:-) Whatever works!
@@loralynstaples5483 In practice today, I spent the entire time just screwing with my fine tuners and retuning over and over. I noticed that it was really difficult to hear the 'ga ga ga' at times. So I focused on the abrasive vibration, and while it took me time to get it adjusted, I got pretty darn close if I do say so myself.
@@jasonlw0 I'm so glad you are "getting it"! One more tip, I'm not sure if I said it in the video, but most people do not realize the impact our BOW TECHNIQUE has on our pitch! I could tune a student's violin PERFECTLY, and hand it to them, and when they play long bows on 2 strings, it will sound extremely out of tune. Our bow technique has to be good enough so that we can pull a smooth, even tone, with EQUAL WEIGHT on both strings, without wobbling. So that is worth practicing just that. Good luck. Keep up the good work!
Ion learn nun