Ive been curious about this since i first started tying about 1.5yrs. The closest fly shop to my location is about 65-70 miles away which it is basspro shop. So since i dont make it to the city often i tie my flys with sewing thread. Yes my mom had a bunch of thread she uses when she sews and she give it to me. How does sewing thread differ from tying thread? Is it a bad thing to use when tying flies?
John, this is a good question and lots of people have asked the same thing. Maybe I'll do a video about it soon, but I'll give you my thoughts here too. You certainly can use sewing thread for flies, but it does have some characteristics that make it more difficult to work with, or less ideal than tying thread. One being that lots of sewing thread is made of cotton. And for the same diameter of thread, cotton will not be as strong as a polyester or nylon. And it will also be "fuzzier" when you look really closely at it, so it will be harder to finish with a clean head. If the sewing thread you use is polyester it won't be as different from tying thread, but there's a good chance what your mom gave you is cotton. If you're not sure what it is, take about 18 inches, hold it tight in each hand (you might need to wrap several times around your fingers) and pull it. A polyester or nylon should have a noticeable stretch. If it's cotton, you won't notice much stretch and it will likely break pretty easily. And if you look at it under a magnifying glass, or under a bright light you should see some of the fuzziness I was talking about. But... one good thing about using sewing thread for flies. If you can make a good looking fly using sewing thread, you can make a great looking fly with tying thread. In the end I don't think a fly tied with sewing thread will be noticeably less durable, but it will have been harder to tie and probably won't look as good. My recommendation if you don't get to town very often is to buy some thread from an online fly shop. The UTC Ultra (by Wapsi) is about $2 a spool. For twenty bucks you could get ten spools of either 70 or 140 denier. I'd pick the denier based on what size flies you tie. If you tie on the smaller size, go with the 70. If you tie more streamers or warmwater bass bugs, go with the 140. Or some combination of both. I'd probably start with three spools of black, then one each of colors like: brown, olive, cream, tan, yellow, red and white. And depending on how often you tie, this investment could last you several years. So my bottom line is that although you could use sewing thread, it's going to make your tying harder. And this is one material I don't recommend skimping on. I hope this helps!
@@SavageFlies sir u have no idea how much it helps. U answered a question i have wandered about every time i tie. I am by no means a professional, and around central Ok there are no trout streams so the smallest fish i can fish for around hm is bluegill. So i tie more streamers for bass, stripers, small mouth etc….i have not mastered the smaller flies yet. But with the info u have given me i am going to go to one of those online fly shops and get me some real thread and try my hand at it. Thank u for taking the time to respond to my question. And also i enjoy your tying vids alot. They are very well explained and helpful. U get a thumbs up every time from me sir. 👍👍
Have you tried rew bee's wax, melt in a tin pour into a shape apply to thread rub up and down to warm and melt into thread or buy tacky wax and rub it to spread you only need a tiny amount .
Matt, I visited a local fly shop several weeks ago and asked the salesperson about purchasing thread. I walked out knowing less than when I went in. Since, there is no standard for all thread manufactures, if can be confusing. Thank your for a basic and simplistic rendition of fly tying thread. Common sense will now prevail.
Ha! Thanks Roman. I could have probably boiled this 12 minute video into 30 seconds: use a 70 denier for small flies, 140 or 210 for bigger flies. And if you're having trouble spinning deer hair, try a GSP. I think in the end we all just settle on something that feels the most comfortable to us. :-)
Thank you very much for putting out this content. You’ve been a HUGE help to me in my quest to start tying flies myself, rather than buying them. Much appreciated from Canada!
I held off ordering more thread because I wasn’t sure what sizes to order. Thanks Matt, this has been helpful for me. I pretty much know what sizes to order. Now I just need to figure out colours.
Thanks JD! If I were to prioritize my colors to order, they would be: black, brown, olive, olive brown, red, white, yellow, green. And I probably use three times as much black as anything else. And spools of yellows and greens might last me a few years. :-)
Matthew this is great even at 3 in morning. Your a super star . My son is also named Matt we go fishing now for a few days on Zambezi RAW Bee's wax works well on cotton and the rest just rub and friction melts it into cotton Thank's again
Great video Matt! This is a very good video. Small hooks need small thread, bigger hooks usually need a bigger thread. My 3/0 Monocord will spin out any deer/moose or elk hair. LOL.
Great video Matt.When I started out the best thread we could find was silk for a long time.Then the nylons came along.Glad you did this video because I’ve never heard of the gap types.They must be a great help when using some of the heavier furs.thanks again this was a great help.
Thank you for clearing that up. I've been using old-fashioned round thread all my life, and these new types and sizing systems have been kinda confusing. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there, either. Great video!
Great video Matt. As a beginning fly tier (2nd time, 1st time 25 yrs ago) this helped me determine the type of thread I need for honing my 'basic' skillset. Keep up the great work.
Thank you my friend; I'm glad you're here! As a new tier, if you ever have any questions just leave them in a comment. Several of the veterans around here are always happy to help. Cheers. -Matt
Great video Matt, I started using GSP for my salmon and steelhead flies and found that I prefer use it for my trout flies as well. Super strong and very flat. As for the issue with dubbing, I started using a tacky wax from Loon, that seemed to work fine. Thanks for the video.
Good feedback Layton. I may give it a shot for some of my smaller trout flies as well. But the only colors I have in GSP are white and black. I suppose I can use the white when possible and just get some markers for any fancy heads.
The article by Charlie Craven was one of the best thread explanations I have ever seen.A new tyer should try and find it and read it.Years ago I saw an article on the best thread for working with deer(and others)went into tensile strength and not cutting the hair.Don’t remember who wrote it may have been Chris Helm(the king of deer hair).Another good thing is watching full dress salmon tyers and steelhead tyers,great for getting basics of thread management.Sorry for being long winded but can’t help all the thoughts on this subject.
Thanks Michael! For anyone reading this comment, the link to Charlie's article is in the video description. Well worth the read. And you're right Michael, some of the GSP threads are so strong, that they are very thin and you have to be careful not to actually cut through materials like deer hair. And also a good call on watching full dress salmon fly tiers for some great examples of thread control and economy. These guys will actually count thread wraps to keep it as precise as possible!
@@SavageFlies as I had said a while ago,I learned alot from both Eric Leiser and Dick Talluer but the most amazing thing I had ever seen was a man named Bellarmino Martinez tie full dress salmon flies using a pinkie vise. Thread was cut and laid out along with all the other materials,never saw him short or too long.A wizard!!
I cannot tell you how many hours of my life I’ve spent researching thread specs. It would be so great if there was a single, universal standard to describe diameter, count, weave or twist pattern, strength, buoyancy, stretch, and all the other details a person in the market needs to make a decision at the margin
Apparently, many of the fly tying "Big Boys" are in love with GSP. For the admittedly narrow range of flies I tie and use for bass, crappie, sunfish, etc., GSP is simply not worth the trouble. But that's just me. Thanks for the video!
You know Michael, I don't get the obsession with it either. I've been tying with UTC in a 70 denier for so long, it just feels natural to me. Maybe if I spun a lot of deer hair flies or tied those big monster saltwater flies I might reconsider. Just haven't really had a need to. Thanks for the note my friend. :-)
I go into that a bit in this hook primer: czcams.com/video/V9yPY7VpSYU/video.html. Toward the end I talk about some of the conversion tables out there.
Richard- I have not thought about doing a video on wax, but I appreciate the idea! Of course, I would have to learn a lot more about other waxes since I pretty much only use one kind (Hareline's Touch Dub).
The threads should all have a breaking strength number and weight. That's all that is really relevant. It's 140 denier and breaks at 98. Standardize it and it will get all my purchases.
Great video explaining threads. I have wondered about this myself. Thanks! I do, however have a question regarding the use of Semper Fli threads, specifically their nano silk. Any thoughts on its use? Thanks!
Thanks! I've never tried their thread but have been looking closely at it lately. (I thought for sure the company was started by a Marine but it turns out they're an English company so I doubt they have anything to do with our USMC!) And they're a bit pricey at almost $4 for a standard 8/0 or 6/0 waxed. And their nano silk is even more expensive. I may give the nano silk a try, but as expensive as it is, I doubt I'll replace my $2 a spool UTC. Let me know if you try it as I'd love to hear from someone who has actually used it. :-)
Good point, but I'd think splitting thread for dubbing might be challenging for a brand new tier. I know I screw it up half the time! But I do hear GSP will split easier than a standard nylon...
I enjoy your videos. Have you thought about writing a book. The tips and techniques are very useful. I have tied a number of flies following your videos.
Thank you Dale! I love to hear that my friend. And yes, I do plan to start writing books within the next few years. It's all part of my retirement plan. :-) Thanks for the note!
Just subscribed to your channel after watching the peak and griffin vice reviews and then this video. Do you have a recommendation for a thread for doing s split thread dubbing technique (rather than using a dubbing loop)?
Thanks John, and welcome to the channel! My go-to thread is a 70d UTC, but that is hard to split. It can be done if you flatten it first and use a fine point needle (more pointy than a standard bodkin). But it’s still tough. So depending on the size of fly I’m tying, I would consider stepping up to a 140d if I was planning on splitting it. If you can still get a clean head without it blowing up on you, go for it! And if you’re going to split thread on a big nymph or streamer, grab some 210d. That stuff is much easier to split! You just have to be careful as it builds bulk quickly. Hope this helps!
Danville and UTC? They still make those lol?? For decades now, I only ever hear of Uni and Veevus. That said, I'm not a big fan of flat threads; I've splashed out $$$ for Uni and Veevus, but my mainstay is still old-stock Danville pre-waxed 6/0. Round thread is superior for spinning deerhair and for re-enforcing hurl bodies and palmered hackles without adding the weight of wire. But OTOH, I often switch threads midstream for different parts of the fly, depending on whether neatness or toughness is the primary consideration. But if someone wants to be an 'exclusive' Veevus snob, they should also be ready to shell out big bucks for several high-end ceramic bobbins with flared barrels. Btw, I only fish flies; I don't sell them - so daintiness doesn't win me over.
Thanks Matt. I just bought some GSP & will have to try it. As a followup prompted by this video, I was curious about the number of strands in GSP. According to a short video on the Veevus website, their 16/0 & 6/0 GSP threads have 2 strands which are slightly twisted so they lay flat when wound on the hook. They can be split to insert dubbing. There was no further information on strand for their other sizes. No standardization of size or spelling. It would be much more helpful if manufacturers would label threads by the two things most of interest, either diameter or breaking strength, preferably the later. Spelling - what is the word for someone who denies? Denier? So why is that used to describe thread? ;-)
Ha! That's a good one. And yes, regarding the Veevus 16/0 and 6/0, Charlie Craven mentioned that exact same thing in his article. And he even had the clout of talking to the head of the company and still couldn't get a straight answer. I haven't seen the video on their site so am going to have to check that out. Thanks Bob!
Something I get a lot from newcomers to fly tying, is questions about sewing thread. Yes, there are many different kinds of fly tying specific threads, but it seems beginners always want to rob a little bit of thread from mom’s sewing cabinet and the questions arise. Perhaps you could do a video on that? Thanks Matt David Hutton S Carolina Palmetto Fly n Fish
That's actually an interesting topic. I'm going to think about it and do some research. Does sewing thread come in different sizes or strengths? Maybe I can rig up something to do a breaking strength test too. Thanks for the note!
@@SavageFlies Yes threads come in different sizes, different purposes, different materials, everything from superfine all the way up to heavy embroidery thread. Really, it’s kind of a genre of its own. I’ve used it in many ways during my time at the base, and it does have some uses.
@@dahutful That's interesting! My wife has little-used sewing machine. Now I'm wondering if she's got any interesting thread I could play around with. :-)
@@SavageFlies material matters - ideally you want thread that is synthetic. But cotton blends make nice bodies, under a coat or resin or varnish. I’ve caught many fish on nothing more than a sewing thread body with a soft hackle collar.
Man I just use spun polyester sewing thread rn I wanna get some real thread but it works for now just like my vice grip vice and all my coat hanger tools
David- I use the light that came with this pack. amzn.to/3L7iZ7y Another tip- I buy separate applicator bottles and I love these things! amzn.to/3se4W7y
I commented on a different post now have a question on this one. I bought some thread from Orvis that is size G it says saltwater/Bass what would this be in a /0 size? the salesman could not tell me I bought it for the color for a green Copper John but haven't used it yet
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
UTC stands for "Ultra Thread Company" but I think it's really just a brand marketed by Wapsi. You might simply hear it called Ultra Thread. But there's also "UTC wire" which is just wire sold by Wapsi with the UTC name.
Did I say 9,000 kilometers? Oh boy, I hope not. It's 9,000 METERS, or 9 KM. Still, that is way longer than I would have believed and had to look it up from several sources. Now I've got to go back and check what I said!
Man you can search and search and CZcams just won’t give you what you need. After 18 months all the sudden for the first time it starts showing me your channel. Why CZcams. Why.
Richard- good question. Lots of people have asked this one. For thread, you pretty much need to get it from a fly shop. The sewing thread you'll find at craft stores or Walmart just doesn't work very well. It's not as strong, doesn't have any wax in it, and is just a bit harder to work with. (And I think it's often made of cotton instead of a synthetic nylon.) The good thing is that thread is generally pretty cheap anyway. The Wapsi UTC I use most all the time is about $2 a spool. Now there are some expensive threads out there (GSP, Semperfli, some of the Veevus) which can be $5-6 a spool. But you can't go wrong with the good ol' UTC.
@@richardness4469 You're welcome Dick. So, Whidbey Island? Any Navy affiliation? I was a sailor and spent some time on a carrier in Bremerton so not too far from you. -Matt
Sorry Matt, no navy for me! I live on Bush Point! Rite on the beach! About 16 miles from the navy air base! Google Bush Point! Great salmon and steelhead rite off my beach! My neighbor typed some flys for me and I had great success!🎣😎
I know man, I screwed that one up! I might have to do a part 2 for this video anyway since I didn't talk about the Semperfli either. I just recently picked up some of that and will give it a try soon...
THANKS MATT...VERY INFORMATIVE....QUESTION FOR YOU LOOKING FOR A MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTION....ONE ON FLY TYING AND ONE ON FLY FISHING...OR IS THERE ONE THAT HAS THE COMBINATION OF BOTH TOGETHER....THANKS ...AND AS ALWAYS I WILL BE WATCHING....SEE YA JOE
Joe- there is the "Fly Fishing and Tying Journal," published four times a year. I like it okay, but prefer "Fly Tyer" magazine. "Fly Fisherman" magazine is published more often, maybe six times a year. It does have some tying in it but is a little more fishing focused. I would recommend both these- Fly Tyer, and Fly Fisherman. And if you only subscribed to one, probably Fly Fisherman. Hope this helps!
Ive been curious about this since i first started tying about 1.5yrs. The closest fly shop to my location is about 65-70 miles away which it is basspro shop. So since i dont make it to the city often i tie my flys with sewing thread. Yes my mom had a bunch of thread she uses when she sews and she give it to me. How does sewing thread differ from tying thread? Is it a bad thing to use when tying flies?
John, this is a good question and lots of people have asked the same thing. Maybe I'll do a video about it soon, but I'll give you my thoughts here too. You certainly can use sewing thread for flies, but it does have some characteristics that make it more difficult to work with, or less ideal than tying thread. One being that lots of sewing thread is made of cotton. And for the same diameter of thread, cotton will not be as strong as a polyester or nylon. And it will also be "fuzzier" when you look really closely at it, so it will be harder to finish with a clean head. If the sewing thread you use is polyester it won't be as different from tying thread, but there's a good chance what your mom gave you is cotton. If you're not sure what it is, take about 18 inches, hold it tight in each hand (you might need to wrap several times around your fingers) and pull it. A polyester or nylon should have a noticeable stretch. If it's cotton, you won't notice much stretch and it will likely break pretty easily. And if you look at it under a magnifying glass, or under a bright light you should see some of the fuzziness I was talking about.
But... one good thing about using sewing thread for flies. If you can make a good looking fly using sewing thread, you can make a great looking fly with tying thread. In the end I don't think a fly tied with sewing thread will be noticeably less durable, but it will have been harder to tie and probably won't look as good.
My recommendation if you don't get to town very often is to buy some thread from an online fly shop. The UTC Ultra (by Wapsi) is about $2 a spool. For twenty bucks you could get ten spools of either 70 or 140 denier. I'd pick the denier based on what size flies you tie. If you tie on the smaller size, go with the 70. If you tie more streamers or warmwater bass bugs, go with the 140. Or some combination of both. I'd probably start with three spools of black, then one each of colors like: brown, olive, cream, tan, yellow, red and white. And depending on how often you tie, this investment could last you several years.
So my bottom line is that although you could use sewing thread, it's going to make your tying harder. And this is one material I don't recommend skimping on. I hope this helps!
@@SavageFlies sir u have no idea how much it helps. U answered a question i have wandered about every time i tie. I am by no means a professional, and around central Ok there are no trout streams so the smallest fish i can fish for around hm is bluegill. So i tie more streamers for bass, stripers, small mouth etc….i have not mastered the smaller flies yet. But with the info u have given me i am going to go to one of those online fly shops and get me some real thread and try my hand at it. Thank u for taking the time to respond to my question. And also i enjoy your tying vids alot. They are very well explained and helpful. U get a thumbs up every time from me sir. 👍👍
Have you tried rew bee's wax, melt in a tin pour into a shape apply to thread rub up and down to warm and melt into thread or buy tacky wax and rub it to spread you only need a tiny amount .
Q rew bee's wax is RAW bee's wax that holds the honey apologies
Note- I said a denier is the weight of 9,000 kilometers and I meant METERS. 9,000 meters (or 9 KM). Sorry about that.
About the thickness, everything being the same, you need 4 times the weight, to double the thickness.
A = π*r²
Matt, I visited a local fly shop several weeks ago and asked the salesperson about purchasing thread. I walked out knowing less than when I went in. Since, there is no standard for all thread manufactures, if can be confusing. Thank your for a basic and simplistic rendition of fly tying thread. Common sense will now prevail.
Ha! Thanks Roman. I could have probably boiled this 12 minute video into 30 seconds: use a 70 denier for small flies, 140 or 210 for bigger flies. And if you're having trouble spinning deer hair, try a GSP. I think in the end we all just settle on something that feels the most comfortable to us. :-)
Thank you very much for putting out this content. You’ve been a HUGE help to me in my quest to start tying flies myself, rather than buying them. Much appreciated from Canada!
I’m moving on to your hackle primer video now!
Well thank you!! I appreciate the kind words my friend. And I'm glad to see you getting into tying. It's such a fun and rewarding hobby. :-)
I held off ordering more thread because I wasn’t sure what sizes to order. Thanks Matt, this has been helpful for me. I pretty much know what sizes to order. Now I just need to figure out colours.
Thanks JD! If I were to prioritize my colors to order, they would be: black, brown, olive, olive brown, red, white, yellow, green. And I probably use three times as much black as anything else. And spools of yellows and greens might last me a few years. :-)
I was just asking about this. This is so confusing. Thanks for the vid.
You got it my friend; I hope it helped!
Good video for there , that haven't tyed for 30+ years. Gotta catch up with new materials. Great Job . Thanks Denny
Appreciate it Denny!
I believe it’s the most confusing topic of all fly tying. Simply because there’s no standard. Thanks for the clarity. Very helpful.
Hey, thanks Richard! It can still be extremely confusing and took me a while to just get the basics figured out. :-)
You’re videos are awesome!! This is Jim Holland’s daughter…keep up the great content!
Well thank you! You're dad is a great guy. :-)
Matthew this is great even at 3 in morning. Your a super star . My son is also named Matt we go fishing now for a few days on Zambezi
RAW Bee's wax works well on cotton and the rest just rub and friction melts it into cotton
Thank's again
see reply to Johnb
Okay I'm brand new at this and I'm having a lot of fun watching all your videos
Thank you Marty; I appreciate the comment. Have a great weekend my friend. :-)
Tough subject. Thanks Matt!! Great information.
Oh yeah, this was a hard one. Thanks for watching Clyde!
Here to learn something! Let's go
Thanks man! This was a tough one to figure out how to make. I appreciate you watching. :-)
Thanks Matt! I really love these “explanation” videos for us beginners
Appreciate it Sarge. And speaking of frogs... I'm going to try a big bass frog here pretty soon. :-)
@@SavageFlies can’t wait to see it!
I am new at this and watch a lot of videos. Your explanations are really good and easy to follow. Thank you for sharing your experience and expertise.
Thank you Kurt! I really appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Cheers. -Matt
Great video Matt! This is a very good video. Small hooks need small thread, bigger hooks usually need a bigger thread. My 3/0 Monocord will spin out any deer/moose or elk hair. LOL.
Thanks Jim! I've never even tried tying with a 3/0. Maybe I should try some since I break all kinds of thread when spinning deer hair! :-)
Thanks Matt. Very informative
Thanks for all your knowledge , learned a ton watching some of your video so far A big THANKS
You're most welcome John! I appreciate the kind words my friend. :-)
Great video Matt.When I started out the best thread we could find was silk for a long time.Then the nylons came along.Glad you did this video because I’ve never heard of the gap types.They must be a great help when using some of the heavier furs.thanks again this was a great help.
You're most welcome Fred! Thanks for watching and leaving a note my friend. :-)
Thank you for clearing that up. I've been using old-fashioned round thread all my life, and these new types and sizing systems have been kinda confusing. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there, either. Great video!
Thanks William! Hopefully it will help some of the new tiers out there. :-)
Great video Matt. As a beginning fly tier (2nd time, 1st time 25 yrs ago) this helped me determine the type of thread I need for honing my 'basic' skillset. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Bruce! I appreciate the kind words my friend. :-)
Really appreciate your information to help me understand the difference in thread styles
Well thank you Marshall! I appreciate the note my friend. :-)
Finally Matt you Decoded the mystery of Threads for me! New to tying and really enjoy your videos, glad I subscribed. Thanks
Thank you my friend; I'm glad you're here! As a new tier, if you ever have any questions just leave them in a comment. Several of the veterans around here are always happy to help. Cheers. -Matt
Really been enjoying these types of videos about various materials. Thanks Matt 👍🏼
Hey Bernie, I really appreciate the kind words! Take care my friend. Cheers. -Matt
Great video. Thanks for the information. You are getting to be the go-too guy on CZcams.
Wow, thanks Matthew! That is some high praise. I really appreciate the encouragement. :-)
Very helpful. Thanks Matt.
Great video probably one of the better explanations of thread I have seen. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks Steven! I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Cheers. -Matt
Interesting discussion on thread, sizes and types.
Appreciate it Lee!
I definitely appreciate the information, Matt. It's all a bit confusing, but you made it more clear. Thank you for another great video.
I appreciate hearing that Kyle. Thanks for the note!
Very informative thank you so much Sir Matt.
This really helped me.
Thanks Edward! I just responded to your email. Another great nymph you made there. :-)
Another great informative video Matt. Thanks for sharing.
You bet Larry; appreciate you watching my friend!
Very helpful video Matt. Thanks for explaining the differences, I have a much better understanding of the types of thread now.
Hey, thanks Neil! I appreciate the kind comment. :-)
Very informative! Thank you for the links to other articles!
Great review matt.not much out there on the subject but you got it.thanks for sharing
Appreciate it Mike! Hopefully this will help some new tiers out there. :-)
Great video and very helpful. This info might have been buried in one of my fly tying books but your explanation was great.
Thanks, great info. Gave me a better understanding of what difference thread types mean. Thank you!
You're welcome David! I appreciate you watching my friend. :-)
Always enjoy your videos ........... great content !
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching my friend. :-)
Great info here for new tiers Matt. Very informative, it definitely educated me on the diferences and types of treads.
Thanks William! I really appreciate you watching my friend. 👍
Thanks for the videos! I'm new to fly tying and your videos are awesome! Easy to follow, informative and fun.
And thank you for this kind note! Let me know in the comments if you ever have any questions. Cheers. -Matt
Great video Matt, I started using GSP for my salmon and steelhead flies and found that I prefer use it for my trout flies as well. Super strong and very flat. As for the issue with dubbing, I started using a tacky wax from Loon, that seemed to work fine. Thanks for the video.
Good feedback Layton. I may give it a shot for some of my smaller trout flies as well. But the only colors I have in GSP are white and black. I suppose I can use the white when possible and just get some markers for any fancy heads.
@@SavageFlies I only use white and black, Sharpies do the rest. lol
This was so helpful!!! Thank you!!!
Very helpful. I get a ton of information from these videos.
That helped alot Thanks!
Thanks Matt. I hope that it helps every one.
Thanks Butch!
So good to learn about thread!
Great video! I also prefer utc because it can lay flat.Problem is you can never get the main colours.
Thanks for all your research 👍
Appreciate it Jim! And thanks for watching my friend. :-)
That was interesting, Matt. Fly fishing uses a completely different vocabulary that quilting thread, although it is equally confusing.
Oh, I didn't even think about quilters and the threads they use. I'll bet there are tons!
Thanks for the great tips,
You bet Craig; appreciate you watching my friend!
Awesome video Matt, great explanations
Thanks Kenny! Appreciate you watching my friend. :-)
very helpful thanks Matt
Thanks James! This was a tough one to make but hopefully it'll help some new tiers out there. Cheers. -Matt
That was helpful- thanks for the straight forward approach
You bet my friend, or grumpy caveman. Thanks for watching. :-)
I like your channel, like the way you explain things.
Thank you Randy! Appreciate you watching my friend.
I like this. Very educational and informative.
Thanks Paul! I appreciate the note my friend. :-)
Thank you very much 😊
Great video
You're welcome 😊 Appreciate you watching Dave!
Awesome
Thanks Josh. This one was kind of a pain to try and put together. :-)
@@SavageFlies yea thread can get really confusing at time that’s why I usually just pick the color I need the. Try to match the size the best I can 😂
The article by Charlie Craven was one of the best thread explanations I have ever seen.A new tyer should try and find it and read it.Years ago I saw an article on the best thread for working with deer(and others)went into tensile strength and not cutting the hair.Don’t remember who wrote it may have been Chris Helm(the king of deer hair).Another good thing is watching full dress salmon tyers and steelhead tyers,great for getting basics of thread management.Sorry for being long winded but can’t help all the thoughts on this subject.
Thanks Michael! For anyone reading this comment, the link to Charlie's article is in the video description. Well worth the read. And you're right Michael, some of the GSP threads are so strong, that they are very thin and you have to be careful not to actually cut through materials like deer hair. And also a good call on watching full dress salmon fly tiers for some great examples of thread control and economy. These guys will actually count thread wraps to keep it as precise as possible!
@@SavageFlies as I had said a while ago,I learned alot from both Eric Leiser and Dick Talluer but the most amazing thing I had ever seen was a man named Bellarmino Martinez tie full dress salmon flies using a pinkie vise.
Thread was cut and laid out along with all the other materials,never saw him short or too long.A wizard!!
I cannot tell you how many hours of my life I’ve spent researching thread specs. It would be so great if there was a single, universal standard to describe diameter, count, weave or twist pattern, strength, buoyancy, stretch, and all the other details a person in the market needs to make a decision at the margin
Apparently, many of the fly tying "Big Boys" are in love with GSP. For the admittedly narrow range of flies I tie and use for bass, crappie, sunfish, etc., GSP is simply not worth the trouble. But that's just me. Thanks for the video!
You know Michael, I don't get the obsession with it either. I've been tying with UTC in a 70 denier for so long, it just feels natural to me. Maybe if I spun a lot of deer hair flies or tied those big monster saltwater flies I might reconsider. Just haven't really had a need to. Thanks for the note my friend. :-)
thats some cool info thanks
Thanks my friend! Really appreciate you watching. :-)
Thanks matt, as always great info in this one
Appreciate it brother! Can't wait to hear how the new vise is going to work out for you. :-)
@@SavageFlies yeah I'm ready to give it a try. I've never used a rotary before. It should be here by wednesday
I always wondered. Now I'm better educated.. Thanks.
Thanks! Thread is still a pretty complicated subject until you just pick some you like and use it for a while. :-)
Thanks It was very informative.
Would you ever consider a video which discusses the different hook numbering system by the different manufacturers?
I go into that a bit in this hook primer: czcams.com/video/V9yPY7VpSYU/video.html. Toward the end I talk about some of the conversion tables out there.
Thanks
I have been tying for one or two years and start round the timer RUDOLPH .
Thanks for doing this. I feel like I'm in school again.
I appreciate it Brian! Let me know if you ever have any questions or requests for the channel. Cheers. -Matt
Well done Matt!!! Have you thought of doing a video on wax? Would love to see it.
Richard- I have not thought about doing a video on wax, but I appreciate the idea! Of course, I would have to learn a lot more about other waxes since I pretty much only use one kind (Hareline's Touch Dub).
Great as usual! What type and brand of thread do you recommend for dubbing ropes and/or loops? Thanks so much
The threads should all have a breaking strength number and weight. That's all that is really relevant. It's 140 denier and breaks at 98. Standardize it and it will get all my purchases.
Great video explaining threads. I have wondered about this myself. Thanks! I do, however have a question regarding the use of Semper Fli threads, specifically their nano silk. Any thoughts on its use? Thanks!
Thanks! I've never tried their thread but have been looking closely at it lately. (I thought for sure the company was started by a Marine but it turns out they're an English company so I doubt they have anything to do with our USMC!) And they're a bit pricey at almost $4 for a standard 8/0 or 6/0 waxed. And their nano silk is even more expensive. I may give the nano silk a try, but as expensive as it is, I doubt I'll replace my $2 a spool UTC.
Let me know if you try it as I'd love to hear from someone who has actually used it. :-)
@@SavageFlies I use a lot of nano silk and it is awesome. Especially small midges etc. Extremely strong and great colors.
@@ScottLarson199m Thanks Scott! I'm going to have to give it a try. :-)
Good video!!!
Appreciate it Franky!
9,000 km = 9,842,520 yd · 9,001 km = 9,843,613 yd · 9,002 km = 9,844,707 yd
Nice explanation!!! Keep up the good work!!!
Thanks Dan! Appreciate you watching my friend. 😁
if you wax the gell stuff would it help on the down side
Is there a comparison chart of the difference and/or equal too if the different threads?
I believe gsp doesn't need to hold dubbing as it can easily be split and used as a 'dubbing loop'
Good point, but I'd think splitting thread for dubbing might be challenging for a brand new tier. I know I screw it up half the time! But I do hear GSP will split easier than a standard nylon...
I enjoy your videos. Have you thought about writing a book. The tips and techniques are very useful. I have tied a number of flies following your videos.
Thank you Dale! I love to hear that my friend. And yes, I do plan to start writing books within the next few years. It's all part of my retirement plan. :-) Thanks for the note!
Just subscribed to your channel after watching the peak and griffin vice reviews and then this video. Do you have a recommendation for a thread for doing s split thread dubbing technique (rather than using a dubbing loop)?
Thanks John, and welcome to the channel! My go-to thread is a 70d UTC, but that is hard to split. It can be done if you flatten it first and use a fine point needle (more pointy than a standard bodkin). But it’s still tough. So depending on the size of fly I’m tying, I would consider stepping up to a 140d if I was planning on splitting it. If you can still get a clean head without it blowing up on you, go for it! And if you’re going to split thread on a big nymph or streamer, grab some 210d. That stuff is much easier to split! You just have to be careful as it builds bulk quickly. Hope this helps!
is there a spreadsheet that lists all these threads in a scale?
White and black GSP is the only thread I’ll use, strongest stuff out there and the white is nearly invisible.
Good feedback Aidan. I don't use white GSP too often... maybe I'll give it another chance. :-)
Danville and UTC? They still make those lol?? For decades now, I only ever hear of Uni and Veevus. That said, I'm not a big fan of flat threads; I've splashed out $$$ for Uni and Veevus, but my mainstay is still old-stock Danville pre-waxed 6/0. Round thread is superior for spinning deerhair and for re-enforcing hurl bodies and palmered hackles without adding the weight of wire. But OTOH, I often switch threads midstream for different parts of the fly, depending on whether neatness or toughness is the primary consideration. But if someone wants to be an 'exclusive' Veevus snob, they should also be ready to shell out big bucks for several high-end ceramic bobbins with flared barrels. Btw, I only fish flies; I don't sell them - so daintiness doesn't win me over.
Thanks Matt. I just bought some GSP & will have to try it. As a followup prompted by this video, I was curious about the number of strands in GSP. According to a short video on the Veevus website, their 16/0 & 6/0 GSP threads have 2 strands which are slightly twisted so they lay flat when wound on the hook. They can be split to insert dubbing. There was no further information on strand for their other sizes.
No standardization of size or spelling. It would be much more helpful if manufacturers would label threads by the two things most of interest, either diameter or breaking strength, preferably the later.
Spelling - what is the word for someone who denies? Denier? So why is that used to describe thread?
;-)
Ha! That's a good one. And yes, regarding the Veevus 16/0 and 6/0, Charlie Craven mentioned that exact same thing in his article. And he even had the clout of talking to the head of the company and still couldn't get a straight answer. I haven't seen the video on their site so am going to have to check that out. Thanks Bob!
Everybody should start with uni 8/0 so they can appreciate GSP when they come around to using it.
Very true! Or even start with a 6/0, and when you can make clean flies and heads with a 6/0, your flies with 8/0 or a GSP will look REALLY good.
Something I get a lot from newcomers to fly tying, is questions about sewing thread.
Yes, there are many different kinds of fly tying specific threads, but it seems beginners always want to rob a little bit of thread from mom’s sewing cabinet and the questions arise. Perhaps you could do a video on that?
Thanks Matt
David Hutton
S Carolina
Palmetto Fly n Fish
That's actually an interesting topic. I'm going to think about it and do some research. Does sewing thread come in different sizes or strengths? Maybe I can rig up something to do a breaking strength test too. Thanks for the note!
@@SavageFlies Yes threads come in different sizes, different purposes, different materials, everything from superfine all the way up to heavy embroidery thread. Really, it’s kind of a genre of its own. I’ve used it in many ways during my time at the base, and it does have some uses.
@@dahutful That's interesting! My wife has little-used sewing machine. Now I'm wondering if she's got any interesting thread I could play around with. :-)
@@SavageFlies material matters - ideally you want thread that is synthetic.
But cotton blends make nice bodies, under a coat or resin or varnish.
I’ve caught many fish on nothing more than a sewing thread body with a soft hackle collar.
Man I just use spun polyester sewing thread rn I wanna get some real thread but it works for now just like my vice grip vice and all my coat hanger tools
Do you have a recommendation on a good ultra violet flashlight for hardening uv resign?
David- I use the light that came with this pack. amzn.to/3L7iZ7y Another tip- I buy separate applicator bottles and I love these things! amzn.to/3se4W7y
Thank you
I commented on a different post now have a question on this one. I bought some thread from Orvis that is size G it says saltwater/Bass what would this be in a /0 size? the salesman could not tell me I bought it for the color for a green Copper John but haven't used it yet
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table
what does UTC mean?a company or a type of thread
UTC stands for "Ultra Thread Company" but I think it's really just a brand marketed by Wapsi. You might simply hear it called Ultra Thread. But there's also "UTC wire" which is just wire sold by Wapsi with the UTC name.
@@SavageFlies thank you for the info!
Tim Camissa is with Trout and Feather not In the Riffle
Yep, I realized my mistake a little too late on this one. Thanks for the note!
Woudn't 9800 meters...equal about 9800 yards ( one meter = about 1 yard)..?? 1 km. equals 1,000 meters.!!! km. being "kilometer"
I enjoy your videos !
Oh yeah, I totally blew that one! I think I may have corrected it in a pinned comment later. :-)
Kilometers?
Did I say 9,000 kilometers? Oh boy, I hope not. It's 9,000 METERS, or 9 KM. Still, that is way longer than I would have believed and had to look it up from several sources. Now I've got to go back and check what I said!
Dammit. I just watched. Not only did I get it wrong, but I said it wrong about three times. Uggh...
That's OK man you put out some great videos.
1 kilometer = 1093.61329834 yards.
Man you can search and search and CZcams just won’t give you what you need. After 18 months all the sudden for the first time it starts showing me your channel. Why CZcams. Why.
Hahaha! Most of us have no idea how the CZcams algorithm works. But I'm glad you're here. 👍
Can thread be found at craft stores or only fly shops? I am a new 🐝 🎣😎
Richard- good question. Lots of people have asked this one. For thread, you pretty much need to get it from a fly shop. The sewing thread you'll find at craft stores or Walmart just doesn't work very well. It's not as strong, doesn't have any wax in it, and is just a bit harder to work with. (And I think it's often made of cotton instead of a synthetic nylon.) The good thing is that thread is generally pretty cheap anyway. The Wapsi UTC I use most all the time is about $2 a spool. Now there are some expensive threads out there (GSP, Semperfli, some of the Veevus) which can be $5-6 a spool. But you can't go wrong with the good ol' UTC.
@@SavageFlies thanks for the fast reply! I really like your videos, you are truly informative!
Thanks again
Dick- Whidbey Island Wa
@@richardness4469 You're welcome Dick. So, Whidbey Island? Any Navy affiliation? I was a sailor and spent some time on a carrier in Bremerton so not too far from you. -Matt
Sorry Matt, no navy for me! I live on Bush Point! Rite on the beach! About 16 miles from the navy air base! Google Bush Point! Great salmon and steelhead rite off my beach! My neighbor typed some flys for me and I had great success!🎣😎
Здравствуйте, это известно, покажите приемы работы с разными материалами, спасибо.
Добро пожаловать. Спасибо за просмотр! -Matt
you never mentioned uni thread and the differences
I know man, I screwed that one up! I might have to do a part 2 for this video anyway since I didn't talk about the Semperfli either. I just recently picked up some of that and will give it a try soon...
1 denier is the weight of 9000 metres of thread not 9000 kilometres of thread.
THANKS MATT...VERY INFORMATIVE....QUESTION FOR YOU LOOKING FOR A MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTION....ONE ON FLY TYING AND ONE ON FLY FISHING...OR IS THERE ONE THAT HAS THE COMBINATION OF BOTH TOGETHER....THANKS ...AND AS ALWAYS I WILL BE WATCHING....SEE YA JOE
Joe- there is the "Fly Fishing and Tying Journal," published four times a year. I like it okay, but prefer "Fly Tyer" magazine. "Fly Fisherman" magazine is published more often, maybe six times a year. It does have some tying in it but is a little more fishing focused. I would recommend both these- Fly Tyer, and Fly Fisherman. And if you only subscribed to one, probably Fly Fisherman. Hope this helps!
@@SavageFlies awesome thank you matt as always your a big help...see ya joe
America Got some big football fields
Yeah, I misspoke there. Sorry about that.
Whoever came up with these systems must have been from N Georgia.
Haha! You know it brother. :-)
Did anyone else hear him say, "Flat Tires"??? LOL