The end of glue, epoxy and superglue
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2022
- Wood glue, Superglue, Epoxy- How long they last and how to tell when they are bad
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@Ugly German Truths Listen to the whole sentence. I was speaking generally about how destructive the freezing process is on everything at the smallest level, not about the physical makeup of wood glue, specifically. I also said it was my opinion that freezing makes the glue suspect.
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Oooh look, even replies on Stumpy Nubs videos are going missing! Seriously Spewtube, WTF are you playing at?
As a guy who works for the largest adhesives manufacturer in the world, you absolutely nailed this video. I'd say this is probably the best video on adhesive shelf life I've ever come across on YT. The only thing I'd probably say is that not all CA is equal. Industrial grades will have much shorter shelf lives (due to less stabilizers to maximize performance), and the stuff you buy at Home Depot will have a much longer shelf life due to the addition of significant amounts of stabilizers. The stuff at a woodworking shop is likely to be right in the middle, so your 1 year is pretty accurate. Once again, well done.
I agree. i need to look it up, but i think the shelf life of industrial CA glue stored below 40F is far longer than 1 year (due to lack of moisture and less molecular activity), but i agree, this is an excellent informational piece. I hate having all of my glues and sealants (like thread sealers and fluxes) expire all the time. It is way more than just the cost, it is the trip to the store or Amazon for a dab of glue for a repair that drives me nuts. The 10oz tubes of silicon and caulk and PVC glue are the worst offenders. Rule: If it really matters, always buy a new tube!
Seeing the white bottle of Elmer's Glue reminded me of one of their commercials from the 70s. They glued two overlapping slabs together to make a diving board and then led Elsie the cow out onto it. Yes, it was a real live brown and white cow standing over a swimming pool. I wish I could find a clip of it, but no luck so far. I hope someone else remembers it too as my family thinks the memory has something to do with the fumes coming from my workshop.
Unrelated note, I love that you always represent our mitten state with your Red Wings cups and beverage holders!
Definitely a relief, the title made me think you were about to tell us that adhesives on finished projects would eventually fail..
Excellent advice. I started storing my PVA glues tip-down. I sometimes will have a 2-4month gap in between projects and found that a film or even disc of semi-solid glue can form on top of the glue in the bottle because of the air inside the bottle. Stored tip down, this film or disc forms on the 'bottom' and away from the stuff I want to use.
I had a plastic condiment bottle in the kitchen I wasn’t using and it’s a perfect fit for the wood glue. Amazing! And I buy the larger CA bottles with the metal rod in the cap and I don’t have problems anymore. I also have tons of HF CA glue for single use applications.
@@colinjohnson5515 I've heard that plastic condiments are harder than latex ones, and more likely to tear with use.
😇😁😏😉
*EDIT:* I do like the tip-down position, though.
Not only that but it helps to squeeze out the bottle of all air so that the remaining CA glue just barely starts to come out the top of the bottle, then seal it with cap. THEN you can store it upside down, and even better stick it in a ziplock back and throw it into your freezer. Doing such will keep nearly all moisture out and I bet it would last decades.
thank you , thank you, thank you. I remembered this video and reviewed it. Big project (a desk top for my wife) that I didn't want to risk unnecessary risk of failure. You are the best!!
I appreciate your focusing on the details of correctness in chemistry and physics when explaining concepts to your audience in common English. With that said it does not make sense to talk about freezing being a destructive process at the cellular level for PVA glue because it does not have cells. Perhaps molecular level is better here. Interestingly, actual cells that withstand freezing do so by creating various antifreeze proteins, some of which may be able to stabilise the polymer precursor molecules of PVA or other glues under freezing conditions - but I have not spent any time looking into this. It is very likely someone else has.
I always wind up testing my CA glue before I use it no matter how old it is. Usually on my fingertips.
Have you noticed how CA glue sticks absolutely everything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, except what you want it to.
Have an open bottle of acetone within (the other) arm's reach, there will be one day when you're thankful!
Happend to a"Guy" I know. I always have acetone ready and waiting now.
@@georgeprout42 Just don't stick your right hand to your left, eh, George.
It would be funny to watch, though. 🤣
@@georgeprout42: I've had a few day, like that.
Excellent stuff James. I’ve been a carpenter for nearly 40 years and I’m still learning new stuff. Mike, UK.
Talking about glue is always a good way to stay bonded to your core subscribers.
I'm really stuck on this channel.
So I watch your guidance regularly because of your clarity and expansive knowledge, keep coming back also to get another look at that Hockey Town cup.
Thank you for your advice, I have been a student of woodworking for almost fifty years. This segment on glue was excellent. I would really love sitting down and talk projects over a beer. Keep up your positive approach to making sense on a subject that has hundreds of ways to accomplish the expression of creative woodworking. You'll know you've done well when someone says "you made that".
As a scientist I have a proposition for a video: try to freeze and thaw a tube multiple time and use it each time with a few scraps. That would give you an idea of what the influence is. I do not have the pieces at hand to do so myself, unfortunately...
For a scientific test you would need many bottles and many scraps to eliminate the countless variables. It would be a very long and laborious process. That's the problem with these "tests' I see people do online. A sample size of one or two is useless for the purpose of finding reliable results.
@@StumpyNubs First of all, thanks for the answer. It is really a privilege.
Concerning the test setup, I beg to disagree. You do not need a comprehensive test of all glues and scraps. A reasonable experiment setup would be fixing a couple of variables and do it. Something like this: you take one bottle and 10 to 15 pair of scraps (same material) to glue. You then glue the first pair, freeze-thaw the bottle and glue the second, freeze-thaw the bottle and glue the third, etc...
You can go on to 6 or 7 cycles or more, then let the scraps rest for 6 months and see the results.
Won't be exhaustive, but it is significant: you have a pool of results from which draw conclusions and upon which you can expand on by changing either the type of scraps or glue.
On the other hand, I agree that it is a tedious and time-consuming test, with unknown results. If you ever get to do it, I would suggest summer so that the thawing would be quicker!! :D
Anyway, thanks again for commenting and taking the time to read my suggestion. Thanks as well for the educative and entertaining content.
I only buy PVA glue in small bottles now because the two times I bought the two quart size, the product went bad in just a few months. I think the larger bottles sit in hot/cold warehouses for long periods so the shelf life is mostly gone before you even get it.
The freeze/thaw cycle is definitely something to be aware of. Especially if you like somewhere cold and deliveries of glue can freeze on the truck. I've bought a small bottle of Titebond 3 and had a panel fail with supposedly brand new glue. Bought the same stuff from a store that had older glue on the shelf and the panel is still rock solid 2 years later "it's a table top". If your glue looks funky, throw it out or go exchange it if it's new.
I sure appreciate your well-produced, factual and to the point videos.
I was glued to the screen during this entire video!
James you're a natural and so good at what you do. Thank you!
I always look forward to your videos. Learn something every time.
Mr. Nubs, thank you for teaching us that CA glue has a shelf life, even if unopened. I believe you suggested one year. Hide glue too. PVA benefits from optimal storage, stirring, darkness, cool temperatures…. good content!
Goldang did I learn heaps in 9 minutes! That was the best vid I've ever watched on glues....never thought there was so much to know about the subject. Phenomenal knowledge and concise presentation! Legend yet again! Thanks James!
Thank you to whoever asked the question. I paid no attention to glue shelf life. Helpful video.
I use ca gel glue formulated for leathers often. This a pool players preferred glue for tips because of the constant impacts and friction that accompanies hitting a spherical object with something that has some “grab” to it. And you learn quickly that ca does not perform in those conditions for very long if it’s not properly stored, is over a month from opening or has been sitting on a store shelf very long. Your customer will soon be returning for a replacement. I’ve never kept it in the freezer, but I have always kept it in the fridge. Of course typical woodworking does take that type of abuse. So my lesson learned from ca glue probably doesn’t have the same impact for your topic.
I learned alot with this video, thank you! I've been watching you sense your early days in the garage with your cave-lair less formal approach. Keep-up the good work, you've earned it! THANK YOU!
Your timing has been impeccable lately. I was just starting to question some of my glues, and I'm probably right on the cusp of many of their shelf lives. I just never considered it before. I'm tossing a lot and labeling new bottles according to these guidelines. This will be really helpful, so thanks!
Was I the only one that noticed the glass top river table while talking about deep pour epoxies? Great info and a great reminder to clean out the glue cabinet.
I bought 1 gallon Titebond 2. Eight years ago. Its been through at least 10 freeze, thaw cycles. I am only about 60% of the way through it. And it STILL works just fine. No glue joints have failed, and I have made multiple dozens of small joints. The glue is a bit thick, I'll admit.
Glue is good until it doesn't come out of the bottle, then you make a bigger hole :)
Thank you for all the information you share with us. Your channel has been the most helpful for me to learn woodworking.
3 years on Titebond is about dead on for my shop too. Thanks for this video, and YES...one freeze and I'd recommend tossing it out :)
Trying to work with old wood glue is frustrating to say the least. Usually I only buy enough glue to do a few projects.
But for something like cyanoacrylate glue I found a good way to prolong CA "super glues" is to store them in a refrigerator or even better a freezer. While it won't store CA glues indefinitely, it will increase their shelf life by a lot.
I have a huge 16oz bottle of R/C tire glue, which is just a regular medium viscosity CA super glue, that has been in my freezer for 6+ years now and it's still good. I used it recently when I got some rims and tires for my R/C truck.
You're such a great teacher. Thank you.
I've had the gallon of Titebond II glue since 2012. I keep refilling my squeeze ketchup bottle every so often. It's still good as I store it in my house and not in the shop. However, it is starting to get a bit thicker, but the gallon is also almost gone, so I guess it's perfect timing!
I'd never really considered this. Thanks for sharing.
I've had many types of glue occasionally fail, and now I think I know why. Thanks, Mr. Nubs.
Sterling information as usual, James. Thank you.
Great video as usual, James. For some reason, i never thought that glue had a shelf life, but then why wouldn't it? Everything else does. Thanks for highlighting this. Every day is a school day, as they say.
Excellent and under-served topic. I run a large engineering group that builds high precision products with a lot of specialized adhesives. Shelf-life and expiry dates of these is absolutely critical and *DOES* make a significant difference. This topic is very real and very important (and very widely unknown to most).
Excellent video. It is easy to forget that glue has a life span and great that you reminded us all of it! Bravo!
Thank you James, your video is extremely informative, so much that I will check all my bottles of glue using your excellent guidelines. All my woodwork is home DIY, as a result I've ended up buying glue when I'm at the supplier, from now on I'll take your advice to only buy what I need at the time.
I always learn from and enjoy your videos, many, many thanks.
Stay safe and well, best regards from Durban, South Africa.
Very useful overview. Thank you from UK.
Very helpful and informative. Thank you.
Great video. Lots of useful info. I do keep my CA glue for longer than a year but I have never relied on it as the sole attachment. It usually more as a clamp for awkward clamping projects until I can get PVA and or screws into play.
if you've ever done ink blending from pigment you can actually use PVA indefinitely, it just becomes weaker
Good info James. I've had PVA glue last a long time while stored in my basement shop, I've had it fail after a half a year in my box van work truck, temperature cycles are the cause. Basement is pretty stactic at around 65-68F all year, the truck, below zero to above 120 F. Cold seems to accelerate the breakdown quicker. Freezing the stuff (because I forgot to bring it into the house) gives it one or two thaw cycle life, then it become a cottage cheese imitation.
cottage cheese 😀😃😄😁😆😅🤣😂😂😂 exactly what it looks like
I'd suspect that it's weaker after even the first freeze.
Just finished up a gallon jug of titebond II over 6 yrs old no “cottage cheese” cabinets look great…
Great video! Really good to spread the word on this, as a lot of folks don't give it much thought.
Moisture and air are damaging to many adhesives. Using an oxygen displacement agent, like 'Bloxygen' or other inert gas can keep paints, adhesives, and other chemicals from damage by oxidation and humidity.
Almost every adhesive you have on this episode can have its lifespan increased (at least a little) by not freezing, keeping UV light sources as low as possible, keeping the temperature stable at around 50F, and keeping humidity (with the exception of your wood glue) and oxygen counts as low as possible by using some kind of inert gas displacement. Moisture is a very quick killer of cyanoacrylates and polyurethanes, the dryer the better for those to last longer.
Great information. Thank you for the education you provide
Does anyone else have a 20+-year-old bottle of glue on the shelf? Lol!
Great advice on glues.
As Collin Johnson says below, one of the best moves I have made regarding PVA glue is ditching the cap. For a 16 oz bottle, a Plochman's Mustard cap is perfect. No more washing out the tip, no more half-closed tip and I get a much more controllable bead of glue. I keep a pop-up cap around for the occasional use where the wider bead makes sense.
I have some glue that's lasted a while and it has a small tab on the cap that fits inside the slot. It has never blocked up on me and all that's been needed it to pick any dried glue off the nozzle or cap. I much prefer it to those pop-up nozzles. The only downside is you need to keep track of the cap but in my opinion, that's a small price to pay to not have to mess with unblocking nozzles every time. I think it's still a thing that's used (though actually, I can't find any) but the last few glues I've bought have been the pop-up ones.
I have an unheated shop, so bring in all my liquids. When it warms up enough, back to the shop and I test everything on scraps. I just buy new when it doesn't work up to par. Thanks for another excellent video, James.
Good advice, James. I have used CA glues for decades and stored them as you suggested, in a zip-lock bag inside the freezer. I also plug the small hole in the tip with a gold pin from a D-connector often used in old parallel and serial data cables (I used to make those cables when I was working and had a lot of unused pins leftover). The gold plating won't corrode and you can usually pull them out with a pair of pliers no matter how glued up the tip might get. If you snip off the hollow crimp portion you can fit the pin under the original cone-shaped bottle top for a tight fit that won't pass any moisture. My bottles have lasted 3 years or more in the freezer that way.
I give my bottles a little love squeeze before putting the cap on
Very interesting subject, and very well explained too ! 🙏🏻
1.5 Speed really helps. Great info. Thx!
This is GREAT NEWS! I got in on the TB3 sale that Lowe's was having and ended up with about 80 10oz bottles for like $20. I have them stored IN THE HOUSE and since I have a woodworking business, I should be able to use them all within the next few years easily. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for yet another helpful video Stumpy. I confess I have probably never used a tube of CA glue twice. Next time I will try the the freezer.
Once again, Stumpy out here taking care of us all, well done sir.. I am thoroughly educated. Keep up the amazing work, love you guys❤🙌🤘
Good stuff. Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
I work for a major producer of
adhesives and we store our medical grade super glue at 40 degrees F to prolong the shelf life.
Just finished up a jug of Tite Bond III that I bought in 2007, no issues at all.
I found a 6 year old unopened small bottle of TBII in the cabinet that had turned to the consistency of chewing gum with a strong vinegar odor.
I've bought CA glue in 8oz bottles for a while now, I've had that stuff in the freezer for years, never an issue, but the small tubes are basically a one use deal in most cases.
White Elmers PVA glue seems to last even longer, often 5 or more years if not opened. I don't think I've ever thrown any of it away due to age.
I never even thought of my glue’s shelf life before watching this video. Thanks again Stumpy.
Another storage consideration is shop lighting. Many shops still have unfiltered fluorescent lights that can adversely affect the life of fabrics, dyes, plastics and I would assume glues.
Fluorescent lighting emits UV rays.
Super informative and helpful - thanks for sharing.
Awesome and thanks so much for your woodworking information
Good information James, thanks.
More good tips. Thanks James
Thank you for this info. I think I will be glue shopping tomorrow.
I think that's good advice for day-to-day, James..."Keep your tip clean, and your cap tight."
I have used a lot of resorcinol. In certain applications its quite amazing! Like making a hardwood plywood for a boat deck hatch.
This is superb information! Thanks very much for this! 👍
I learn something on every video. Thanks.
At my grandparent' s house they kept a container of Elaine's craft glue in the hutch in the kitchen. We used that bottle for about 5 years and never had a problem with it.
Nothing in this video contradicts that experience.
Stumpy Nubs: Redeeming the uselessness of the internet one video at a time. Thank you. Another great video.
Thanks for awesome video. This is very informative. A autobody repairman told me something similar many years ago. I had a rear view mirror come off my windshield. I got a tube of the epoxy to mount it back on but it would not stay. I went to the autobody shop and the guy there was telling me even glue has a shelf life.
Great information and answers to my "I wonder if" moments in the shed as I look at any glue on the shelf. We haven't had a really cold winter or frost here in Ireland for about five years, but that's it My doubts confirmed ,they're all going in the trash / recycle . I'm going to try your tip for the CA glue in the freezer as I use it for model making, bonding photo etch brass parts. It usually starts to go very viscous as it reaches end of life, Its cheap enough to replace if needed.
Keep up the good work , great videos.
Great tips, James! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
As always, an excellent video James! I have had GREAT success with storing those small tubes of CA glue in a glass jar with a metal lid. I'm amazed at the odor when I open the jar from the glue permeating through the little tubes. I point the full ones cap-down. The one I'm using cap-up. I have had freeze thaw cycles ruin white and aliphatic resin glues so, much like you said, I always keep them in a warm place above freezing. Now, that leaves me with a special vintage glue I have had for some time now. Before I lost my father 35 years ago, he gave me a huge bottle of bulk aliphatic resin glue. Oh, I used most of it but I still cherish one last small bottle of it on the shelf. I'll never use it. Not even in an emergency. It's just there for a fond memory that I will pass it on to my son some day too. I guess its the family bond.
"I guess its the family bond."
Here's hoping that bond stays strong, for many generations.
Thanks for the good advices
Fantastic video thank you
Excellent information. Checked my stash of glue, wow very old.
By the way, rice does not work well absorbing moisture from ambient air. Give the following a go: In humid weather put a bowl of rice out for a day or more, it will not become soft thus not absorb moisture. To make dried rice absorb water a few things must occur, soaked in water, be steamed, or boiled. The silica packs are the best thing to use; you can purchase silica packs at sporting goods stores.
Thanks James, that information will surely keep me out of a sticky situation. God Bless.
Actually, it will keep you out of a non-sticky situation.
Thanks James, great info, as always.
Polyurethane glue dries out pretty quickly once you knock the top off the bottle in my experience. I did have better results and really long shelf life with 2 pack PU bowling ball resin though! (It wasn't great for bowling balls, but one of the best lamination glues I've even had!)
looks at my adhesives.....whelp all these are 5+ years. time to clean out the cabinet and only buy what I need. Thanks for the tips and the run down!
good information , thanks
Great info again! A note about CA glues- the amount of thickener can dramatically alter the shelf life. A thin CA will last much longer than the thick, or gel. Depending on what you use the CA foe (I use the thin as a finish for small turnings) you may want to consider buying different sizes of the different thicknesses to best suit your usage
Agreed. I use the thin CA a lot for inlays.
Being neat and clean with it helps a lot too. After use, I gently squeeze the bottle to get that extra little drop out of the tip, wipe off the nozzle, and cap it. That helps so much with reducing those little dried crusty bits that keep the cap from sealing good. And it makes it so much easier to just open up and use for the next time.
That is the thing with CA glue. It hardens as a result of its interaction with moisture, and decently fast. You want any lil' bit of it that has touched moisture out of the tube, and the tube sealed shut so no moisture can find its way in.
That checks out with my experience. The thicker Gorilla super glue is really nice, but lasts a lot less long than the cheap runny stuff from Harbor Freight.
I put glass marbles in my adhesives to displace the air. Works great for extending shelf life.
great video! thanks
Loved the video, and a 100% agree on the freeze though thing,. Loved the video, But I suspect most woodworkers and contractors are lot like me in that the problem with not having glue on the shelf that works is that we keep running out. The freeze we had in Texas sure did a number on our stock will glue though. That kind of sucked.
Love your work 👍
Here in Australia, PVA has a fairly short shelf life due to the heat. Especially in the back of a carpenter’s van!
You need a fridge, in your van.
Being a Aussie, I would have assumed you already had one of those. 😁😂🙄
Good advice.
great advice and video. not an exact science but stumpy uses common sense + knowledge to give fair general advice
One of your most informative videos!!! Make sure the rest y'all subscribe!
thanks - very informative as always!
Thanks, James 👍
Thanks. Very important matter
Love this guy.
Funny I’ve been completely overhauling my shop and I had so many products built up in my cabinet that were old I just got rid of all them To start fresh. I thought the same thing, if I work real hard on something I don’t want to risk anything going wrong trying to save a little money. Great video as always!
A ton of info! thanks!