Chelsea Fan Claims Frank Lampard Was Better Than Steven Gerrard | Agree To Disagree | @LADbible TV
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- čas přidán 31. 12. 2021
- We're putting football rivalries head-to-head in the ultimate debate show. In this episode, Chelsea fan Rory Jennings goes up against Liverpool fan James Redmond
Which team was better - Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool or Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea?
Was John Terry better than Virgil Van Dijk is now?
Is Jurgen Klopp better than any Chelsea manager ever?
With thanks to Rory ( / @roryjenningsfootball ) and James ( / @jamesredmondtv )
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As a Liverpool fan i love how open-minded the Chelsea fan is.
That’s Rory for you
Chelsea Rory
Have to love Rory
Typical Chelsea bod, so blinded
Rory is class tbh. A true student of the game
Loved this debate, thanks for having me. James Redmond is a king! Way I'm feeling at the moment I'm inclined to say the biggest transfer mistake in history is us signing Romelu Iscariot for £100 million!
Who was the better team? Man united 1999 or Chelsea 2005?
No he's not Rory. His comments have been taken out of context. He was just expressing his love for Inter as they saved his career. He even stated in that interview that chelsea were his favourite club since he was a kid. He's just not happy abt tuchel's current system as he's not getting as many goals as he did last season.
Bro you really angry at Lukaku, can understand though
🤣😂loved it Rory - one of the most logical, and passionate, football fans about🔥🙌
Send him back to the pasta league he can rot in peace sell him and sign someone who can score goals
He may be past it now but Jose went over 9 years without losing at home. 150 games unbeaten. Madness.
How could Rory not even mention Chelsea’s record breaking defense in 04’/05’ as an argument in the first one smh
cause the Liv guy is deluded. He is just tired arguing.
@@Fazlan_S James Redmond is hardly deluded 🤣
@@evanmaguire2280 lol he’s definitely a deluded Liverpool fan smh 🤦♂️. The 05 Chelsea team was better than this Liverpool side and the trophies as well as only losing 1 game the whole season proves that. (Not to mention retaining the league 🤫). + you defending Nathan makes you sound as delusional as he is. Aka you’re a delusional Liverpool fan yourself.
@@markoworricker9291 Don’t know it’s a close argument, that Liverpool squad was one win away from having over 100 points in the league and won it the earliest of any team ever. It’s a valid argument so he’s not making something out of nothing
@@evanmaguire2280 delusional 🤦♂️
Finally a good debate. Most of the times it would be one sided with one fan being extremely deluded.
And that didn’t happen here? 🤣
@@alfiebailey6072 not as bad as Robby
@@luis6633 aftv guy?
@@alfiebailey6072 yeah
The Liverpool don was deluded
The Lampard and Gerrard debate is always going to be difficult to choose a side. You got one that's a Goal scoring midfielder and you got a midfielder who can do everything in his position. I'd still pick Gerrard but people say Lampard, I can understand
Same
It's very close for me
But imo Gerrard edges it
But everyone has their opinions
@@nt._7 both are shite. Overrated
@@madtitan-bringerofgenocide cry about it
@@kevinmcgee373 oh believe me I know that for sure, I agree
Love that from you Kevin
What a debate. How freaking open minded both of them were. Absolutely loved it.
lol the Liverpool fan was insufferable, constantly interrupting Rory.
The Liverpool fan was open minded?!
"Why you's laffing for, Ckhres what is you's laughing for"
"I'm being seeeerious, i'm being serious" 🤣
“I don’t do if buts and maybes, I do absolutes” LMAO
his accent put a big smile on my face🙂
15 goals conceded, 1 loss, 95 points. That side is better than Liverpool’s easily one of the best in premier league history. We was competing against a side who had gone invincible and Man U.
🤙🏼
The main point of the argument is that beating those 2 teams didn't require as much as tipping City who consistently get to around 90 points.
@@vinigarr801 doesn't require as much😂😂😂 you talk like a fifa fanboy muppet, this isn't fifa
They should of won the champions league
Invincibles
Triple PL winner Man United
And UCL winners Liverpool 2004/05
Rory wins almost every arguement, simply due to being open minded enough to concede certain smaller points. Refusing every single little point just makes you look too head strong and takes away from your arguement in my opinion
James literally concedes multiple smaller points too?
I thought they were both quality
To say klopp is better than Jose is daft sorry
@@nicholascoffey4504 It really isn’t though. Rory even admitted that Klopp may go on to achieve even greater than what Mourinho has achieved.
@@timhansejordet9056 going to take some doing, Jose has a trophy every 40 games or around that, don’t quote me directly but he does have a mad amount which I think people forget because of recent form. Jose has 25 trophies in around 1000 games where klopp only has 9 in 940, nothing to snare at but you can’t knock Jose
This put a smile on me after watching the Wenger-Klopp episode earlier. Gonna see other episodes as well. Great concept!
I'm surprised Rory didn't bring up Chelsea only conceding 15 goals during that 2005 season, a record that will never be broken in my opinion.
‘I don’t see mourinho of any era finishing above peps Man City’ he literally won la liga with 100 points when pep had one of the best sides ever. Messi , inesta , xavi , alves , busquets etc
Not to mention when Liverpool won the title as much as there fans like to lie to themselves , it wasn’t the same city team as prior , it got 81 points due to its injuries
@@axar8850 1 injury, laporte. ONE, same team, just suck it up and face it, liverpool where unstoppable that season and man city bottled it.
Let alone Mourinho, Chelsea had 2 other managers better than Klopp- Ancelotti and Conte.
Jose is on a different stratosphere to Klopp
@@reubenhamer2932 they weren’t the same team tho. There defence was shit that season , And all the other teams were shit that season too. Man Utd had a terrible start yet ended up finishing 3rd
@@axar8850 ok then, man citys title last season doesnt have any credit, most teams had horrific covid cases and injuries, only reason city won was because Liverpool where derailed by have 13 players out and a leauge 1 defense because of injuries, and still finished 3rd. NoT tHe SaMe TeAm.
Best episode yet - no delusion in sight and level headed well thought out arguments. The Chelsea fan conceded on the Salah argument once he heard the other guys points and changed his mind. Kudos to him because I’ve seen fans just blindly back their team regardless of the points being made. Excellent discussion 🤝
Yeah Rory definitely knows his football and can be very reasonable in his arguments. And this is coming from a Spurs fan :D
Watched the Liverpool-United one before this and my head hurt so much this is so much better lol the United fan was sooooooo deluded
@@marky6639 oh lord that one was painful 😅😅😅😅
No delusion in sight? Liverpool fan said Klopp is a better manager than Mourinho because of one prem title
@@theweekndxo7438 have you seen the team klopp took at the start and have you seen how bad the financial backing was ??? I agree to disagree with the lads as Mourinho came to Chelsea with a solid team and lots of financial backing unlike klopp
liverpool fan but if we are being brutally honest he's way off with klopp vs mourinho. Klopp 100% has the potential to achieve what mourinho has and he has created one of the best PL teams/Liverpool teams of all time. But mourinho has done it in every single league and done it with Porto under "klopp conditions" put some respect on mourinhos name man the guys record is a joke. (still klopp to the death)
Jose is a legend!!!
Idk man, I respect your opinion, but for me, Klopp is quite overrated, He IS a great coach and is a developer, however, how many seasons has he been in the premier league, and only 1 league title, literally, Tuchel had barely year and a half and has achieved 80% of what Klopp has achieved in 5 years at England.
@@abrahamcanales132 Klopp has won every trophy that can be won and Tuchel has won what? A UCL? And Liverpool are constantly fighting for the title unlike Chelsea
@@lintonkelly5235dude it took 6 seasons in the premier league for Klopp to win a league, and the UCL they got was against spurs, Tuchel in just 1 complete season has won already 70% what Klopp has won in England. Plus Klopp is the manager with most defeats in the Champions league finals, Klopp is overrated, he loses more than he wins.
@@abrahamcanales132 Tuchel lost both cup finals to Klopp last season and how does winning one trophy 70% of everything Klopp has won at England? Klopp has won in total 6 different trophies, Tuchel has won 50% of them, the UCL, the super cup and the club World Cup, Tuchel has not won any domestic trophy
Depends what you want on your squad, a goal scorer or all round midfielder, me personally, I’d take lampard because he guarantees goals like a world class striker while also connecting the midfield to the attack. And just have defensive or all round midfielders behind him.
As for the Mo Salah debate I think the Chelsea fan has a good point. Salah left Chelsea (at the age of 23) and went to Italy for 3 years or so. Nobody could have for seen the progress he would make in those years to eventually becoming the player he is today. Would Salzburg have let Haaland go for 20 million if they knew he would score 50 odd goals in 50 games for Dortmund?
Well that deal was due to a release clause that Salzburg put in all their players contracts. It's a way for them to actually sign up and coming talent with the promise that they can progress to other clubs for reasonable fees.
Good point!
Salah didn’t set worlds alight at Fiorentina so that comparison to Haland at Dortmund is abit null. He really only made a name at Liverpool.
100% facts. Bet if you asked Klopp if he thought Salah would be the player he is today he would say no. Salah didn't show glimpses of this at Chelsea even with his low amount of chances, and the players who started ahead of him were doing well so Chelsea can't be blamed for this. Plus I personally think he's the best player he could be in Klopps setup, nowhere else. No coach in Chelsea's history has had the same form of attacking style as Klopp hence it wouldn't have worked anyway. KDB is a different story though
@@abdullah087 he was very very good in his last season at roma tbf, 26 g/a in about 27 games
I wouldn’t say Chelsea losing Salah is the biggest mistake ever because at that time it just wasn’t the right fit for either parties and I believe if salah stayed at Chelsea he wouldn’t be the player he is today, I believe he would be less. Salah needed to move on and gain more experience, learn from others, get more playing time, learn different training techniques through other clubs in order to become the great player he is today.
Salah had to go off to Italy and a few clubs there and slowly start building his progression and by the time he hit his prime he became a beast with klopp but at Chelsea there were no gurantees
plus we still had a better winger in Eden Hazard playing for us at his peak
Over come the invincibles and fergie 😂 we had to over come the most expensive team in history and the highest points tally team in history
Chelsea losing Salah, Lukaku and KDB in the space of a few years is their biggest mistake. But back then Chelsea didn't value developing players. Not really. They've always been an instant success type of team. But they've eased on that mentality a little in the last 3 years.
@@edtcreative they had a stacked team. There was no room for them. We say that now because of what they became but at the time it wasn't a big deal. Not even the media cared.
As a neutral (man United fan,) the 04/05 Chelsea team is arguably the best Premier league team ever, they conceded just 15 goals.... Had a dominant international player/captain in every position, beat a team with the best Premier league player of all time (Henry) and fergusons Manchester United to win the league
I as a Chelsea fan would agree😂
As a Liverpool supporter, I agree, but I feel like Rory didn’t argue it all that well.
I personally am not a football fan, it was never anything I was exposed to as a kid. But this was fascinating to watch and massive respect to Rory for being a gentleman. James was brilliant, but this was a very respectable conversation, and when Rory realised James was right was hilarious!
“John Terrys never had a season like VVD” you mean like the season Chelsea conceded 15 goals in 38 games?
I guess it means a season where John Terry was on track to winning something like the balon dor
@@SASMADBRUV7 I really don’t think as a defender he would’ve beaten a peak Ronaldinho.Especially in the early 2000’s where it was basically a award for attackers
In a side that was set up to not concede goals, two very different play styles, high press and scoring loads of goals and keeping a high line vs defensive discipline and slow build up play. Not really comparable.
@@ajm1283 how do you know?
Well John Terry isn't Chelsea's entire defense, Jesus when will people differentiate between teams and individuals. Van Dijk -individually- finished second in the ballon d'or only 6 votes behind the greatest player of all time.
I have to agree with Rory about Salah. Ppl have to understand that it was a difficult transition for him to go from Basel FC to playing in the hardest league with arguably the best team in the country at the time. Mo said it himself that he developed and matured as a player in Italy than he did at Chelsea. With that being said, selling De Bruyne was definitely a mistake.
And he kept Oscar, Willian and Schurrle lol.
he joined from roma no?
@@joecoe4416 and they both were good at chelsea imo
Everything he said is true but that still doesn't change the fact that it was a very clear mistake. The signs were very clearly there, Chelsea wouldn't have signed him in the first place if he had not shown what he is capable of. The problem is he joined under a manager like Jose, who above all loves players with a ton of experience. Players like Willian, who would have one good game every 10 games, had a free pass in to the squad. Then a player like Salah had to earn his way in to the team and at the time he wasn't mature enough to handle that pressure. He often got the ball and would try and take everyone on and do everything himself in an effort to prove himself which didn't work out for him. Maybe if he'd been given a free pass like Willian then he would have had less pressure to prove himself.
It's a similar situation with Lukaku, after a great season at West Brom he was expected to earn his spot whilst Torres and Ba got a free pass. Now I'm not trying to say players shouldn't have to earn their spot but it should be consistent. What have Torres and Ba done to earn their spots? Besides the odd moments they were categorically awful.
Imagine a team with Lukaku up front with Hazard and Salah either side of him and KDB pulling the strings.
@@joecoe4416 Oscar was actually really good for Chelsea so was ramires they were just greedy and wanted more money
They both made really good points. Outstanding debate here. The transfer mistake is the most interesting one and the biggest mistake of all time that comes to mind for me is Arsenal selling RVP to Man United.
Best one I've seen. Mature, grown up debate. No Arsenal fans were harmed in the making of this video!
People forgot just how good the 04/05 and 05/06 Chelsea team was, cech, gallas, carvalho, makalele, lampard, then essien came, Damien duff, robben, Crespo, Drogba, even players like Paulo ferriera. That Chelsea team was massively under rated, people can say mourinho spent so much but he got the best out of a new team straight away it took klopp a couple years and a few windows to get it right
Bro that team that klopp started with was garbage 🗑️. He literally turned water into wine 🍷 with the transfers he made.
@@ismaelhussein340 and mourinho at Chelsea didn't 04/05, mourinho took a Chelsea team that only just managed a champions league place to the title in 1 season. Liverpool were in a better place squad wise when klopp took over than mourinho had with Chelsea when he took over. Think people forgot Jose got that team playing unreal, only conceding 14 goals all season, beating bayern and barca in the champions league, winning the prem and league Cup.
@@lewiswadsworth1829 Liverpool won a champions League and premier League in the space of 2 years. Got more points the mourihno title winning season twice and once not even winning it. Took over an 8th at place Liverpool team with all their best players sold. No comparison I'm sorry the Liverpool team was far better.
@Souless Survivor ok, so if that chelsea team the core was already there why did they only just manage champions league the season before mourinho came? If anything you've just made my point for mourinho even better cause his management made the core of that team unbelievable and added to it. Klopp took over a team that less than a year before came within a whisker of winning the league. Facts.
@@ismaelhussein340 it took Klopp 5 seasons to win the ucl and epl wtf are you waffling about
James was saying we never got close to the 97 or 99 points tally when before city broke it we had the most points in a season with 95
I just think that 2005 team would not have won the league if Pep's City was around in that time, they are just so dominant...
@@luisjames19they conceded 15 goals in a season and lost 1 game to a dodgy pen, they would’ve won that league no matter what team was in it
@@luisjames19 you can´t judge sports like that man everything evolves you can only judge by merits not by who would win against who
I need more of these videos at this point I'm just rewatching them
Salah showed the quality his showing right now to Chelsea when he was playing at Basel. During the champions League encounter between Chelsea and Basel he was all over the pitch and was causing us problems. He was thereafter signed.i believe Chelsea should have used the method they used for Thibaut Courtouis sending Salah and KDB on loan and gradually integrate them to the team. Salah scored on his debut against Arsenal in the trashing of Wenger's 1000th game as a manager. So he did have the quality all along. All he needed was a manager to trust him and nurture him and that's where you have to give kudos to Jürgen Klopp.
chelsea guy won this debate easily, he was calm and knew what he was talking about...
I get the feeling Rory has been watching football a lot longer 🤣 quite embrassing for the other guy really.
@@vitruviandrums calm down that's just how he talks all the time
Scouser beat the United fan badly though at least
@@vitruviandrums older too init
Nobody won or lost the debate. Both made very good points. It was good to see for a change two knowledgeable people talking about football.
Liverpool fan even conceded on the last question between VVD and Terry. Doesn't mean he lost. It shows he knew what he was talking about.
This Is one of the best LADbible debates I've seen because of James and Rory's acceptance and didn't stay stuck on every single topic like most fans are. E.g: Rory agreed with the Salah topic, James agreed with the John Terry topic. These two are my favorite fan youtubers.
Can't compare them in the same category. Lampard was always more of a number 10, playing up near the striker looking for a goal. Gerrard played many positions over his career but predominantly I'd say he was a box to box number 8. Lampard was a better goalscorer no doubt about it his numbers are mind blowing! But gerrard was a better box to box in terms of tackling, passing, bossing the midfield being a leader. Even by saying that I'll have pissed a Chelsea fan off or two. If i wanted a box to box I'd choose gerrard if I wanted a number 10 or second striker I'd choose lampard.
Perfectly summed up 👍
For the Mo Salah debate. We also have to remember that player success is also a product of the system the team runs + the talent around the player etc etc. Chelsea play a very different style of football to Liverpool. And he fits Liverpool's style of play.
In scouse accent “Saudi mane is the best player in the world ”
*in the werld
sadeeo maneh is the bist pleyah in the wirld
"Inh dah wuhhrhhrllddhh"
I don't do ifs buts or maybes
Why has that one line become so famous 😂
As a United fan that Chelsea team was out of this world good first time as a United fan I really got worried for Ferguson
So well drilled and always found a way to win the games, only lost one close match in 05 and were very dominant, one of the best PL sides of all time
And what were most of that Chelsea team doing off the pitch hmmmm
Man United>Chelsea during that period
Harry Kane yh so doing stuff off the pitch affects a team’s Greatness sure mate
Arsenal being winning premier leagues then became the invincibles but Mourinho made you worry first not Wenger
Think was like 12 goals all season , something stupid like that
what an episode brilliant conversation between two level headed lads
the last question / debate has not aged well at all for the Pool lad
Best one yet. Both made some unbelievable points on every question. Football is all about opinions and they bring theirs across very well 👏🏽
Better than those debates with robbie where all he’d mention is their gold trophy lol
Everyone can admit that Salah’s brilliance is a huge shock .. nobody thought he was good at Chelsea and even after his days in Italy we still didn’t see this player at Liverpool today
Yeah it was better for him that he left chelsea, he was young and went off and worked in Italy and slowly improved his game but by his prime age with klopp he became a beast he is now
He was great at Roma though
Not our fault you only watch PL
@@cell2179 facts.
I never expected to reach the level he has, when he arrived I saw in him a max of 15 goals in the league and maybe 5 more in Europe, but not the numbers. He isn’t that involved in the creation, because Klopp has seeing that he is more lethal the closer he is to the box
It wasn't a shock to anyone who followed his career from when he was at Basel. He was always going to reach the very top
This has got to be one of the most heated yet most respectful debate this channel has ever seen.
This has got to be the best one in the series, loved the debate 👏🏻
Salah is definitely not the biggest mistake we’ve made. I don’t think he’d be close to the player he is today without Klopp and that wouldn’t have happened if he never left.
So then it’s back to the point of is Klopp a better manager as Mourinho wasn’t able to develop Salah in to the player that klopp did
@@unnamed3086 you can’t use one example and say that he’s a better manager wtf😂. By your logic mourinho has retained a prem and Klopp hasn’t therefore mourinho is a better manager🤷🏼♂️
@@kyewestmoreland1580 I didn’t say he’s a better manager though
@@unnamed3086 fair enough but you suggested that point and I’m saying that point is invalid.
How was already sensational at Roma, and he needed a good manager to develop him, it was klopp, he would've been the same player he is today if he was developed the way he has and playing the style he is playing today by a good manager wether it was Klopp or not
I kind of agree with Rory about Salah. At the time it wasn’t a mistake because even if he had potential it was always going to be difficult to get into that Chelsea team so the sensible decision from both parties was for him to leave. So I wouldn’t classify it as a “mistake”.
In general it was a mistake.
He always delivered better than Willian or Schurlle. He was just the youngest so they had to ship him out bc of ageist system of play at Chelsea at the time.
@@limofootball what definitely not true, Willian won so many trophies for Chelsea, far more than Salah has for Liverpool
Salah should have returned after his successful fiorentina loan spell though, he showed great promise with some amazing goals, like the solo one vs Juve
Salah became that good under klopp.
15:40 No he didnt. Even Jurgen himself said he didnt expect the numbers Salah is producing in an interview. He said it was a massive bonus and not something he was expecting.
Respect everyone's opinions but Stevie G is different gravy. He was so important to that liverpool side. Wayne rooney even said he is the best English player he played with.
The Liverpool team that came second was basically exactly the same team that won it the next year
Exactly man
@@Luke-ym9ys but they played way better than the one that won the league
@@optic5488 did they though I don't really remember cause I didn't watch Liverpool games in the 19/20 season cause I was fuming but seemed like the same team bar they got 99 points instead of 97
@@optic5488 no they didn’t. The title season they were a level above.
@@Luke-ym9ys Played differently, in 19/20. The football was a lot more measured and patient, it wasn't as entertaining truth be told but impressive.
As a Liverpool fan, I don’t think Salah would have developed into the player he is now if he stayed at Chelsea. No chance of him playing ahead of Hazard in 2014. He would have been wasted there. That being said it would have stopped Liverpool from having the best player in the world.
They play different positions
@@Yusuf-uz2ie They’re different style of players but they were both playing on the wing at the time. Point is Salah wasn’t going to get enough game time while Hazard was in the team.
Salah is a right winger, Hazard is a left winger, Messi is the best player in the world and your comment is stupid. Nuff said
K mate gonna do so well in life cause I know u support Liverpool
@@_MrMoney what’s your point exactly? Do you think Salah would have developed into the player he is now if he stayed at Chelsea? The reason I mention Hazard is because he was Chelsea’s talisman at the time and therefore they didn’t need what Salah had to offer at the time. As for your Messi comment, who would you rather have in your team right now?
Always wanted these 2 in a debate. Class 🔥
Rory you also forgot to mention the 04/05 team had 95 points. So his point about Chelsea not getting close to 97 was moot. It was Chelsea's points record for years
If you where to put both teams in the same league the Liverpool team wins the league just because they got more points. Points and goal difference is what wins titles and that Chelsea team got less points that the Liverpool team they are being compared to.
@@IceClawz.no they don’t points doesn’t mean everything I mean the treble winning Man Utd team in 99 had less points than mourinho’s man united which finished 2nd in 2017 doesn’t mean that Utd team was better than 99 treble winning team it’s simple bro
Rory Jennings is so balanced and level headed. Valid, thought through points. The Liverpool fan is insufferable.
Insufferable was the same word I had in mind.
Was getting frustrating how rory could barely get a word in sometimes as he kept getting interrupted
On the transfer mistake argument im sure rory only changed his mind to shut him up
But the Liverpool is right
Like all Liverpool fans…
As a Liverpool fan I would say Chelsea letting KDB go is a bigger transfer mistake than letting Salah go. KDB is arguably the best midfielder for the last 5 to 6 years I believe. He is and was a massive key player for Man City in order to win the title. So for me KDB is up there and then maybe Salah at second place and Lukaku twice at third. Buying him for 100 mil is a mistake such as letting him go as a youngster.
Problem was KDB was lazy and we had Oscar who was performing far better on the pitch and showed more in training sadly he left for money
And KDB and Lukaku both had great seasons immediately after leaving Chelsea, Salah had a decent season but Klopp turned him into a beast
I can see that but when I look at Salah and KDB you need to think, who would Chelsea have needed more in the last 4 years? I would go with Salah because I believe we’ve had some good chance creators over the last 4 years like hazard and willian. This Chelsea team would have probably won 1 or 2 more league titles with Salah upfront
@@HH-vn6mq I honestly don't see Salah reaching the heights he has if he stayed at Chelsea.
@@joesifa5235 Yh that’s probably true but I’m assuming if he played like he has recently but for us
Salah point is silly. Players change. Salah in those systems and at that time could not put in his recent performances.
The only way it could be the worst transfer mistake in PL history would be if they let go of him whilst he was arguably the best player in the world.... Which, you know, looks like it might happen at Liverpool this year...
While Liverpool's Klopp teams have been all-time premier league teams, the way in which Mourinho's Chelsea in 05 and 06 overcame arguably the two greatest managers in premier league history is incredible. Easily that feat alone is more impressive than any sort of points tally. The competition matters because it's no use saying you're the greatest team when the competition wasn't up to the standard. I'd argue that City solidified their case as one the best teams ever the year after they collected 100 points because they overcame Liverpool's title challenge that season because let's be honest in 17/18 the competition was weak and even if City collected 15 points less they'd have won the league. The pressure was on them to repeat and they did, and so did Mourinho's Chelsea in 06 beating out United again. Competition matters. The argument that a few points is more important than the competition a team faces is not as impressive as beating other all-time teams.
That 05 Chelsea team beat out Sir Alex's United side and Wenger's Arsenal coming off their invincible season and there wasn't any doubt about it and they. Liverpool's title winning season came along at a time when the rest of the league was going through rough patches and the only team that could compete was Man City who shit the bed that season. Still thrashed them 4 - 0 that year after giving them a guard of honor and the narrative was that City were still truly the most dominant side coming off that result because they outplayed them. Naturally they came back and showed who's the best team in the prem again this season beating Liverpool again in a close title race. At the end of the day there's no use comparing them because fans are too biased. For style of football and pure dominance on the pitch, Pep's Man City. For the toughest era to win it's Mourinho's back-to-back titles. For the craziest record, the invincibles. Longevity, United's two different three peats. When Liverpool were actually challenged they haven't won. They'd probably have way more titles but that's the nature of the premier league, if you aren't constantly winning beating out the competitors then you can not be the best. If Wenger and Mourinho didn't join then Sir Alex would have had way more titles, but what makes him special is that he eventually overcame both of them.
p we
I will always go with Lampard but I can understand why people would choose Gerrard. They are both prem legends
I think the argument is that Gerrard is a more complete player. Which I agree with. There are some areas where Lampard did lack whereas Gerrard could do everything. You could genuinely put Gerrard in any position and he would do a good enough job. However, they shouldn't be judged based on that, James Milner is also a more complete player than KDB, it doesn't mean he's better.
At their best and in their preferred positions, they're both attacking box to box midfielders who were best when partnered with someone who would cover them defensively; Makelele, Essien, Mikel, Alonso, Lucas etc. And in that role Lampard was the better player hands down.
The Liverpool fan made the point about him being in a worse team but doesn't that just give Gerrard the advantage? One of the reasons Gerrard stood out so much was because of what he had around him. Lampard managed to stand out above everyone in a team full of stars. So many times you see players excel for lesser clubs only to fall short when they move to a club better team, Graelish being the most recent example. Let's also not forgot the closest they got to a Prem title before Klopp won one was when Suarez carried them, not Gerrard and it was Gerrard who cost them the title.
@@Kitumi578 they are both better than each other at certain factors but both played so consistently at a top level for years and were not far from balon dor at a time which is insane for midfielders and they’re both generational and should be appreciated for sure
absolutely obsessed with these 2 debating. am a liverpool supporter so of course james is a legend but also watch rory’s channel on a regular basis. well-played ladbible, set up an awesome back and forth
Really enjoyed this video, Great debate.
James got dusted in this one, all his arguments weren’t good enough to last against Rory when he agreed then gave him a better point after 😂
Rory is a clown
@@ahoy96 yes perhaps but James still got dusted 😂
As a neutral, I can say, that the Chelsea team of 2005 is arguably the best team in PL history. United 99 and 08 teams are better than the Liverpool title winning team as they were fighting on all fronts and won the league and CL in the same season, and until City do that, I don't know if they can have a claim to being the best team in PL history
Centurions best team ever
@@Mindfuck36 didn't win the CL while winning the PL. Until City win the CL and PL in the same season, then, they might be considered the best
@@Walshy94 it's about the PL history, CL is irrelevant
@@Mindfuck36 Its been a one team league for long enough until recently, hardly impressive. They took advantage of the PL when the big teams were going threw rebuilds & don’t forget without breaking the rules with an unlimited money supply they hadn’t even accumulated from fans and sponsors then it’s not even comparable with being the best PL team ever compared the Chelsea’s, United’s, Arsenal’s or even Liverpool’s.
Yup, the chelsea team of 2004/05, is the best PL team ever (so far). It not just they just so good, but they had an aura of invincibility about them. Like they had 5 extra men on the field, it was that difficult to beat them.
Teams in the current era (Man City & Liverpool) kinda has a soft belly to them and prone to odd off- day, where a freak result is always on, but with that chelsea team, you just know they would never has an off day.
That were worthy winners of the CL that season too. If VAR existed then, that Liverpool “ghost” goal would never be in.
James is claiming that Jurgen Klopp was able to predict Salah to become an elite player, but Klopp himself has said he didn't want Salah. The decision to bring him in was done by the club and Klopp just worked with what he had
And you spoke go klopp did you?
And he told you this?
Jesus christ some people and the poo they talk. Its dribbling off ye lip
He gave credit to the scouts for Salah deal but I doubt he said he didn’t want him
@Saffatlol u might be right but in saying that, what's better than a manager that works with players who weren't his first choice and takes their football to greater heights?
People talk like team carried Lampard but didn't know how much he has contributed in terms of goal and assist and so many chance creating passes.
And some Liverpool or Gerrard fans continue to say that Liverpool was just like one man team as if Gerrard alone was playing all the roles. They forgot torres, Alonso, and so on.
The Chelsea team of 05 for me (a Chelsea fan) is the best with United 99 and 08 team extremely hot on their heels. Main reason is down to the quality of teams that they were coming up against and football being generally of a higher quality back then.
This was by far the best episode we've had yet! Two actual level headed fans
Really?
@@starvetheglazers3725 well its better than the previous ones
Liverpool fan is furthest thing from levelheaded, are you twisted lmao
Chelsea 2004-05 side that conceded 15 goals during entire season was mental, Invincibles can be recreated, the side from 2001-02 season that scored in every single game can be recreated(though it's bit hard), even 100+ points can be recreated, but no one will concede less than 15 goals
This current chelsea side was on track to concede fewer based on the first 12 games then suddenly their defense became shit
@@samuelbiswas615 which confirms how badass that record was
@@user-ee5eb7ku4j the record is indeed mental but the reason it wont happen again is the game of football has changed since and even mediocre footballers can hit top bins now you cant defend that and also to support my claim if you look at top 5 sides that conceded the least amount of goals the most recent one is 14 years ago
Invincibles can be recreated by who? if that's the case then conceding 15 goals also can be recreated
"Invincibles can be recreated" yet its never happened and wont happen in the prem
Ancelotti and Mourinho are 2 managers Chelsea have had that are clear of Klopp. You could also argue about Benitez (1 UCL, 2 UEL, 2 La Liga's with Valencia), Scolari (2002 World Cup, 2 Libertadores), and Ranieri (of course the PL win with Leicester).
Benitez managed liverpool as well tho?
Kevin de Bruyne was a bigger mistake than Salah. Kevin de Bruyne was absolutely ready to be in first 11 but was kicked out by Mourinho because he favoured Oscar.
Salah was still young, he had pace but wasn't physically strong to play upfront.
Oscar was insane. Honestly nobody could have seen KDB and Salah progress.
Salah always had an incredible amount of pace and occasional finish on him; was just very raw. Definitely benefitted from going to Italy. Became more complete and clinical. Klopp's style integrates and lets him flourish. De Bruyne is categorically our biggest mistake in the last decade, for sure.
People have a real hard time understanding how much Italy did for him
He did learn a lot from Italy but someone who watches serie a nobody I knew or ever heard of thought he’d go to liverpool and be the player he was today he just was never at that level at roma and then went to Liverpool and something just switched
Chelseas 05 team conceded only 15 goals. That's no comparison! 97 points will be passed. 15 goals a season......is gonna be super hard!
"97 points will be passed" like ots nothing, lol.
15 goals further proves that it's harder to win now because every team in the Prem is capable of scoring.
@@vinigarr801 or that Chelsea had a truly truly once in a generation defense with a generational manager
@@vinigarr801 97 points has already been breached many times. And it's not like that Chelsea team didn't have 95 points and 15 goals conceded.
@@palashrawat401 Bit of both, The Prem has far better teams all round than back in 04/05
@@palashrawat401 yeh it's still no mean feat lol.
There are more goals in the league now that's an undisputable fact.
City have 2 starting 11s.
This is an example of a great debate. Both sides respect each other and go in with an open mind
Im a liverpool fan and i think the chelsea guy was more real! My scouser was really biased, especially saying that klopp is better than mourinho at chelsea
Nah, I think when you start to talk points you realise how far ahead Pep and Klopp are at this moment in time
The Chelsea fan is right. Lampard destroyed Gerrard in most departments but the media etc were on their knees for Gerrard.
One played with great players and a manager as well as a foooking wealthy owners while the other played for an average team with an above average manager with cheap ass owners. Lampard won't be having that kind of numbers playing for that average Liverpool team.
your talking more shit then when Chelsea fans tried defending john terry sleeping with his best mate wife Steven Gerrard ripped up Lampard
Destroyed Lol. The fact that you used that word in particular just proves your bias.
Lampard v Gerrard regardless of you think is better, has always been close.
Don't act like Liverpool were Burnley. They still had players like Xabi alonso, Suarez, Torres, Marcherano and Carra to name a few
@@SeanMz They were there for like 3 years
The thing people forget, if you win the league by so many points. It doesn't necessarily mean your a better team, I could also mean the other teams are weaker.
In all fairness when Liverpool won the league. Most of the top 6 where awful that season
No they weren't, liverpool were just much better, you can't dismiss his point about points and then claim everyone was awful when liverpool won the league
@@71hammyman sorry mate, you must be right.
No they weren’t awful just other teams weren’t the greatest but city was top and so was Spurs and United was good to try and stop them
@@zain2232 I disagree, the whole season was weird
It's the argument I found on redcafe, PL teams were mediocre, bar in the years Utd won the league.
James & Rory should collab more these days. Been almost a year since they've done any videos together, and they have a sweet chemistry. It's very watchable to see them bicker at each other then flirt for a minute then go back to debating again. Cute pair.
I'd be useless arguing for Newcastle, I'd end up agreeing in favour of the opposition. The only things up to press I would argue in favour of Newcastle are Newcastle is the biggest club in the North East, and Alan Shearer is the best goalscorer in Premier League history. There's another debate I would argue which is debatable admittedly. I believe we have the best fans in England.
Frank Lampard is far better in the tackle than Steven Gerrard wtf haha did you see his early years?
Steven Gerrard was dirty in a tackle
Liverpool fans act like they have been dominating 1 prem in 31 years
We haven’t, dno where your getting that from
@@p.mrockypete2475 he’s saying that the Liverpool fan is acting like Liverpool have dominated the prem
Even with only one prem (not to mention the 18 league titles before) Liverpool have always been a top prem side who came close on numerous occasions. They never slipped as far down as Arsenal have for example.
This is true. They have the same amount of Premier League titles as Leicester and yet i feel like i’ve been listening to Liverpool fans giving it large for many years
@@Rossa4444 because liverpool are 6 time European champions and 19 time league title winners. It's not hard to understand. Football didn't begin in 1992.
I think because of the way his time ended at Liverpool, we create this false narrative that Gerrard carried Liverpool and was their only good player. Whilst we never played in teams of the quality of Lampard or Scholes, we played with players like Xabi Alonso, Torres, Owen, Sturridge (who was great before injury), Suarez etc.
Love it! also married a Scouser so know trying to argue a point is like talking to someone with an echo going on....no escape.
Rory’s Salah point is actually good to be fair, I kinda get what he means. Salah was shite for Chelsea so they let him go and he found his rhythm slightly at Roma so I get what he’s saying to be fair
Let's just agree that Lampard and Gerrard played in a different team setups with different roles, styles and techniques. The only thing wrong about them was how the FA screwed up both of them by not finding the right manager who could find a way to make them work for England. Lampard was lucky to play at Chelsea as he was surrounded by top players in all positions. Gerrard wasn't so lucky at Liverpool eveb though he had good forwards and midfield partnership, his defence and GK + Manager weren't never good enough. Both so good in their prime.
Yeah they both were close to balon dor at some time aswell but those era having Ronaldinho etc didn’t make it easy but man they are generational midfielders we all should appreciate
And that Scholes was clear of both
lampard and gerrard were complete midfielders, both absolute elite level players in all aspect of the midfield game, scholes was elite at a few things and absolute crap at others, scholes cant lace up either of their boots
Having both of them on the bench would have been a dream for any manager, they were equally magnificent but in slightly different ways. Lampard would have been the better option if you wanted to play more aggressively, Gerrard was better if you wanted a more all round workhorse. Scholes was arguably one of the greatest technicians with the ball at his feet but he couldn't tackle for toffee, he was a converted striker rather than a true midfielder
Yeah both lead their respective teams to win the UCL. Everyone talks about gerard led istanbul but Lampard amazing assist for ramirez and the 10 man team performance against the best team in the world barcelona at the time was equally amazing.
Love these vids!
As a Chelsea supporter it is without a doubt selling Mo salah was the greatest mistake we have made and cost us a few league titles.
However the Liverpool kid failed to realise that salah was scoring and assisting 20 plus goals at fiorentina and roma before he came to Liverpool so klopp didn't turn him into a great player but he identified a diamond and helped it sparkle.
As a Utd fan I'd even say Gerrard out of the two, he was sensational, a one man army! Lampard was a stunning player also who done what he specialised in perfectly.
So hazard or salah for you as a man u fan ?
@@shahtador6750 Salah, though that's easy to say st this current time, both majestic players but Salah also racks the numbers up.
It's a no brainer .. although Lampard was top player. Gerrard was something else, a force of nature.
@@adamdam Your defo from London mate
Wannabe Mancs like you are Deluded 😂
@@wehatethemancs874 further south than London actually, its just football aswell, calm down.
Chelsea fan here and I absolutely love how James in the discussions breakthrough to Rory’s mind in that Salah one - but the only flaw here is that, the Liverpool side with 99 points would give our 04/05 side a TOUGH matchup and would be the ‘better’ side. Great video 😂🤝
Nah. I'm a Chelsea fan aswell and our 04/05 team was the best defensive team ever. Full stop. Period. End of.
Liverpool title winning side was focused on attack. Guess who else was attack focused. The invincibles and Fergusons United side. And we had to overcome BOTH teams in both of their peak eras
@@lolno6975 yea thats a valid opinion but i just reckon that this Liverpool side brings alot of tough modern football in to a match versus our 04/05 but i'd still go with chelsea wiining such game
@@lolno6975 tbh , this Liverpool side would have beaten 04/05 Chelsea side. It would be tough but eventually , Liverpool would win it
@@knoccout3005 Liverpool would not even get a shot off. They’re not even convincingly better than our current side who are miles off that Chelsea team
Jose Mourinho is disrespected way too much man,
There is no way klopp is even in the same breath
Rory is someone i would love to talk football with because he’s level headed n open minded.
The points tally arguement is massively flawed because its relative to the quality of the competition. The Arsenal and United team that competed with Chelsea were much better than the faltering Man City team in 19/20. For God's sake united finished 3rd and that was with Dan James starting most weeks!
100% agree - I think it’s also incorrect to assume that the general standard is better now.
Why did Mourinho say that the PL is harder a few years ago by taking the example of Newcastle who had signed an French international, forgot his name. Players fitness, sports science, nutrition, have improved and would suggest that the league is harder compared to 10 years ago. Just check how players are exhausted after Liverpool and City matches.
City had 100 points the season before. Tottenham who fonish 6th made the champions league final the year before.
That liverpool also won the champions league the year before something Chelsea couldn't do in that era.
Also just look at the eufa coefficient. Or the monetary gap in 2020 compared to 05.
Man City have probably the greatest SQUAD in premier league history.
198 points from 17/18 to 18/19. 2 titles.
Relentless.
That’s what Liverpool had to beat.
Liverpool pushed city so much that they made them give up hope by December.
City and Liverpool now smoke united and arsenal then.
I think they beat Chelsea also but Chelsea would be a team they would struggle against cause of there defence.
Dumbest argument aintcit
I don’t think Klopp (maybe I am wrong, possibly) would have guessed Salah would go to score 20+ goals for 5 seasons, I thought he would perform well, maybe score 10-15 in the league per season, but not have the impact that he’s had ever since he arrived at Liverpool. I don’t think it was the worse transfer mistake, because at the time the players in his position were performing quite well, William was really decent at Chelsea and everyone knew Mo had the talent, but lack of minutes cost him his time at Chelsea.
More people need Rorys ability to keep a clear head and listen in a debate. Too many people think the key to debating is to be louder and interrupt. I hate people interrupting in deabtes
I like how Jame's last beer position is pretty much that of the ghost goal...
Statisically Lampard was a god in a team that won far more trophies. But lets be real, any team getting either of these players in their pomp was getting a super player
@@christiandawit612 Frank lampard had a better team to play with so of course he is statsiticly better but Gerrard had carried a semi good team to win trophies Gerrard is better
Gerrard wasn't even the best midfielder at liverpool alonso was incredible
@@killbane8371 stop just stop.
Alonso was at Liverpool from 2004/2005 to 2009.
Gerrard was better. Alonso was a incredible and different player to gerrard but he was not better during there time together.
@@killbane8371 😂😂😂😂
Selling Salah at the time was justified, he was genuinely a very poor footballer. De Bruyne on the other hand showed great promise in the games he played but Mourinho sold him anyway
Yeah KDB one annoyed people because I remember him getting an assist against Hull once and thought he’s gonna be a great player in future and randomly he was allowed to leave, salah went off and had to build himself into a better player and by his prime with klopp went into a different level which wasn’t expected of him
Plus we got hazard so it doesn't matter.
I'm a Liverpool fan but the points thing is irrelevant. If your league quality deteriorates you'll get more points but it doesn't make your team better than a team that got fewer points a decade ago. Context and relativity is very important in these debates. That Chelsea side was also competing with some very good top teams in England and also in Europe an era with Barcelona and Milan teams that were phenomenally good. Similarly, Gerrard came into the team at rb, then DM, and ended up a deep lying playmaker, and he played with some crap players (and some good ones). How would he possibly score more goals than Lampard who played attacking midfielder all his career? Great player Lampard of course. Just saying that the stats alone ignore all context.
The thing is tho that the league quality hasn't deteriorated, just that those Liverpool and man city teams were exceptional
@@headphoneman10 I think it has. It's absolute pap now.
@@MountRushCollymore not rly. All the mid table sides actually have good foreign players all on big money nowadays. It's obvious when u look back at some of the games from back then that there is a large gulf in quality between then and now
@@headphoneman10 Nah I wouldnt say so. A lot of mediocre players. And as you can see, international football is appalling, which shows the general quality around the world. Gone are the days when teams like Romania, Bulgaria or even Denmark had squads of good players.
@@MountRushCollymore maybe, but the prem is still definitely a higher standard
16:24 I actually agree with Rory on his initial stance on this one, honestly Liverpool signing El Hadji Diouf over Anelka was a bigger mistake, and its not even the biggest, Rafa letting Alonso leave was a bigger mistake than both, because it was obvious that Alonso was the best long passer in the world (I think EVER) and these are just Liverpool mistakes. Other teams have made some howlers (Juan Sebastian Veron to Man U, or Thiabi , Arsenal letting selling Van Persie to Man U, Jeffers to Arsenal etc etc etc )
This is the best episode yet from a Liverpool fan. Both James and Rory made decent points (unlike deluded Robbie from arsenal) and both of them were able to put me in a conflict
The Man U man was legally insane
James is a legend, an very modest! One of the better debates I've watched, Rory was on form too, both love the game, clearly!
amzing video both sides with great arguments
Lampard was a superstar in a squad full of superstars Whilst Gerard was a superstar in a squad full of inconsistency
I respect Rory as he is one of the few football fans on this platform who puts his bias aside the majority of the time
People acting like Lampard was a CAM
He played CM (box to box) and still got numbers like that of a striker.
Sure he started out in that position but he had pure free roam hence why he found himself up top so often lmfao he didn’t have to worry about being defensive because he had Essien an absolute pit bull behind him whereas Gerrard was played as a DM for a good part of his career and still got that many goals from ridiculous distances on top of being defensively better (not denying Lampard was solid defensively which is overlooked but Gerrard was above him in that easily)
@@thatonebirtyd5058 Stupid excuses. Gerrard had Alonso and Mascherano and other DMs for the majority of his career too. Both played every position in the midfield at some point, so stop the excuses. Lampard won the ucl playing in a double pivot, Gerrard won it playing as a CAM. so stupid this nonsense of Lampard played higher up the pitch. It's bullshit!!!
@@limofootball it really isn’t tho… Lampard had free roam to do whatever he pleased Gerrard forced his way up the pitch to spark attacks since nothing would start without him doing something because even Owen, Torres and Suarez all needed someone to help them out and he was just the man whereas Lampard as I already said had free roam to go wherever he pleased and of course he was a double pivot in the final your not gonna say go do whatever like you usually do are you lmfao different tactics for different circumstances and they needed all the defenders they could get also of course Gerrard was playing as an attacking mid in his final we was sort of 3-0 down at half time… and finally Mascherano wasn’t with us for long and Alonso wasn’t as defensively solid as Essien (Mascherano wasn’t with us in 05 either)
Thank you, shit is irritating. Talking about tacking as if lampard wasn’t one of the key players in our defensive midfield with insane work rate.
@@thatonebirtyd5058 bullshit, gerrard was a CAM and a winger , he only played DM when he got older.
Klopp's Liverpool won 4 trophies in a calendar year (June 2019-June 2020).
1. Champions League
2. Super Cup
3. Club World Cup
4. Premier League
West Ham fan here. I literally agreed with everything that Liverpool fan said up until the Mourinho and Klopp debate. As soon as he said “Look how much backing that Porto team had” he lost the argument hahaha. Still presented his points we’ll nonetheless.
He never said the backing the Porto team had he said that Porto team had great players and a great 11