#4 - Martin Kleppmann: CRDTs, Automerge, generic syncing servers & Bluesky

The guest of this episode, Martin Kleppmann, is one of the authors of the original local-first essay. Martin has been exploring local-first software and CRDTs for over 10 years, which has led to the creation of Automerge, which we discuss in depth in this episode. This episode is also exploring the ideas of generic sync servers and the impact this technology could have on local-first software in the future.
00:00 Intro
01:51 CRDTs
09:16 Automerge
20:07 Collections vs Databases
24:00 Automerge as an app data-layer
28:54 Thoughts on P2P
32:27 Generic sync servers
37:30 Bluesky
40:37 A social network with local-first approach
48:36 Local-first vs Offline-first
50:35 What does local-first need to really succeed
54:51 A business-model for local-first applications
01:03:39 Outro
Mentioned in podcast:
Martin Kleppmann website: martin.kleppmann.com +
x.com profile: x.com/martinkl +
Mastodon profile: nondeterministic.computer/@ma... +
Bluesky profile: bsky.app/profile/martin.klepp...
Ink & Switch: www.inkandswitch.com
The original CRDT paper: inria.hal.science/inria-00609...
Bluesky: bsky.app
Automerge CRDTs: automerge.org
Our JSON CRDT paper: arxiv.org/abs/1608.03960
Our design for rich text in Automerge: www.inkandswitch.com/peritext
How Bluesky works: arxiv.org/pdf/2402.03239.pdf
Links:
Website: localfirst.fm
X/Twitter: x.com/localfirstfm
Local-First Conf 2024: www.localfirstconf.com
Thank you to expo.dev/ and crabnebula.dev/ for supporting the podcast

[@joanbellavista]

Your questions are absolutely on point!! Amazing podcast🎉

[@nchomey]

It was interesting in particular to listen to the part about offline social networks. I'm actually working on something like that for a very specific niche, but it will be more just a cached online experience than a truly offline/local-first app. As such, the server will be the real source of truth (as well as the home of the html-producing logic) and I'll probably have to add some limitations on what can be done offline.
Still, I look forward to seeing where this whole space goes and maybe a truly offline-first experience will be possible someday!

[@GabrielGabriel-dx1he]

wow there is even a video version!
would it be possible to show the video in spotify too?
thanks for your work! love it!!!

[@nachovc]

Another great episode! I want to learn in future episodes about the strategies to transform Cloud-based applications into Local-first progressively.

[@DavidsKanal]

I am so grateful for you doing these podcasts. Thanks for pushing for awareness of local-first. See you in Berlin!!

[@AaronBoodman]

Super fun and informative conversation - thanks Kyle!

[@judahdsouza9196]

I think the volume might need a bit of gain