What makes a map COMPETITIVE?
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- No matter what FPS game you play, you always play on a map. If the map isn't good, the game wont be fun either, so how do we make a competitive map, and what are the ingredients needed to craft the new DUST2?
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00:00 Subscribe For More!
08:14 Thnx for watching - Zábava
My first "general FPS" video! How did you like it? 😁
(Also yes, I misspoke at 3:34, I meant "titles that DO have". Also I miss wrote symmetrical a couple times but uhhh... did you notice those mistakes xD?)
W Video
Didn’t notice since I haven’t seen it yet yawn
Great vid lol two busy watching lol
Awesome video!
Ping you comment bro
Archmeton is so good at answering questions we didn’t know we had
fr
arch is better then archmeton because it takes months and is higher quality
I love how he said its competitive time and competitived all over the maps
i hate this copy pasta and love it at the same time
Truly, one of Archmeton's video ever.
Truly, one of Astra Metre's comments ever
@@Cyclone15 Truly, one of KEIKO's reply ever.
@@lookinfrontofyou Truly, one of lookinfrontofyou's reply to reply ever.
@@arnavprasad3014 Truly, one of Arnav Prasad's reply to reply to reply ever..
@@Rick_roll_offl Truly, one of K.P. Sivasubramani's reply to a reply to a reply to a reply ever...
I personally do enjoy the practical content of this video more than the niche scenarios portrayed in other videos (The FASTEST MOVEMENT in VALORANT). Those are fun every now and then, but overall I prefer stuff that is more practical (like this video)
the thing with a lot of symmetrical maps (especially a KOTH mode) is that the map becomes assymetrical by what areas the dominating team take up, it is entirely equal at the beginning of the game but then it turns into an attacking/defending team scenario. control point lijiang tower, for example, typically has players go up to the defender's spawn choke point in order to hold them there and the map becomes "assymetrical" in that area where both teams have different options on what choices are available
it's pretty fun to think about the maps that way because then it turns out that symmetrical maps like king of the hill have quite a bit of similiarities to non-symmetrical maps like payload in how the dynamic shifts around
My bro... After
"Everyone want to make their product better"
And than "except Ubisoft" text apper...
That just hit hard 2:16
great video as always, glad tf2 is still getting some love out there!
I feel like even though they're the most popular, CS maps are still underrated in how drastically they've affected the competitive fps mapping culture.
Most of the vintage CS maps are legendary masterpieces. With dust 2 at the top.
mirage and nuke are some of the most refined and balanced maps ive played, across all games
@@bluewuppo nuke is a balanced map?! haha
in overwatch king of the hill gamemode, you play at 3 different maps every game to make it less repetitive and i love that because it solves the issue of "symetrical maps are boring"
As an Overwatch player, the KOTH maps are not symmetrical; some have a bike or a construction lamp on one side
Those are decorations to break the illusion of a map being symmetrical, the point still stands!
@@Archmeton i think he was kidding lol
Some of the capture hitboxes aren't symmetrical so one team could touch the point 0.15 seconds faster
@@a_gamer106 bruh
@@a_gamer106 let me guess, it's always the other teams side
Loved how you revealed how the context of a game mode completely changes the balance of a map. Super interesting topic, game design is "just" a giant UX problem - testing is needed sooooo much.
Tf2 and overwatch only works with symmetrical maps because of the characters being so different from each other, which on itself gives replay abilities even on a map that would theoretically be boring. But even then unsymmetrical maps generally tends to be more popular due to its design and game modes, switching sides are still extremely fun and adapting to it always presents a challenge for us to overcome even if this is the 1000th time playing the same map
I remember making a map on Minecraft to 2v2 with my friends.
I didnt knew my ideas are lined up with competitive standard 😂
I called it dynamic map. It uses redstone contraptions and command blocks. At start, the map will be symmetrical like mirrored block by block. But when one side wins, it will reduce some covers giving the losing team an advantage. And the more winstreak a side does, the more covers will be removed. But it wont get to the point that theres no more cover. Instead it will make some areas into ice surfaces, making them to move harder in exposed area. and sometimes it will just completely block the views in high ground making it useless.
Then theres a button on enemy side that you can press to undo the changes one by one. There are 4 buttons in there.
But, when the other side wins, the map will reset to start (not the round 1 map but the round 2 adjustment)
I made that map like 5 years ago and the laptop i used back then is already trashed. And now im learning to create games. maybe i can implement the same thing and see what it can do in FPS game instead of Bows and swords 😂
Super creative that’s awesome
Very interesting to have a map that gets tougher for the winners.
Thanks Archmeton! Really wondered about this one since the past few months, now I can think of advanced strats on every map
Usually videos like this give me questions I didn’t know I had and leave me with more confusion than anything but this is a really good video, hope I can see more from you!
Thank you for improving my mapping skill! I’m currently mapping a map for the shooter Phantom Forces in roblox.
Nukedown from all call of duty: perfect asymetrical
Raid from cod bo2: perfect symetrical
That was very fun to watch . Even tho there's a lot of talking , I didn't feel bored at all ! you earned my sub .keep up the good work .
this is such an insightful video from a game developing perspective. good job Arch!
Archmeton I would like to thank you for making this video. This will help a lot with my new game
you really opened my eyes here as a game developer, thanks and keep it up!
2-Fort never gets old 😋😋😋 Keep up the great work, Love your vids.
I like what Overwatch does with its CtF map Ayutthaya, set in a temple in a Thai jungle. It's symmetrical (rotational symmetry, not mirrored), but each side is still unique, because one side is overgrown and run-down, whereas the other side is preserved and ornate. All the map geometry is identical (or as close as it would reasonably need to be), meaning it's balanced, but each part of the map still feels unique because of the different aesthetics present.
another common Archmeton W. Great vid!
The legend can put out so many high quality vids. Man! I wish I was this good and fast at it
I love the type of videos you make great vid mate
Your growing so fast your going to get big mark my words
great video man keep it up!
your sound like a nice person, love your videos
Great vid archie!1!!
"You would get bored of a map if you play it for long enough"
Except Hightower and 2fort
very interesting video. love the game design topic
Very good video. You should do one like this for weapons in shooter games maybe?
Great video as always, keeping it interesting every time :D
My favorite youtuber uploaded again 😍
Very nice video :)
Definitely your best video
Thank you! If you like content like this you should check out my other channel, you can find it on my channel page
This is the most underrated channel I've ever seen
great video!
gg good vid man
Nice vid:)
Nice vid, liked the different perspectives on looking at a map. Little comment: In 5:52 symmetrical is spelled wrong, gotchu :) hehe
this is a really good vid
I think the issue with having one op spawn and one not op spawn is that a lot of games don't switch at half score (for example you can get 12 points in the first half of val) this means the op side gets a massive advantage going into the bad side as they don't have to win as much
I actually forgot about splitgate lol it was so fun I played in beta and alpha xD thanks for reminding me
Also consider u start on Unbalanced losing side... U will feel down before you get to play the stronger side... state of mind also play a role and U will probably lose because of it even after the change
Such a well made video and a underrated channel :)
babe wake up a new archmeton video
What software did you use to create those maps? Also great vid!
prob unreal engine
good video as always. I wish the CoD devs would understand this. 😂
I love your videos
damn this was sick
to many compliments, i have to say thank you :)
With some gamemodes, symetrical maps are also unbalanced. Because, if there's a lot of ratty close corner shotgun angles and long corridors for sniping on both sides, it's advantagous for the defenders (in the case of val)
I can't think of a game where the map would be symmetrical and have a strictly attacking and defending side. TF2 has symmetrical maps but it's for the capture modes where both teams are attack.
You should have talked about how player skill level can change the balance
wow good upload
You should do a video on how wall bangs and stuff like that work
Seeing dust II is making me how would that play out in valorant and how could it be balanced to be fair and fun.
Think, slight stroke while typing
@@aicraglednay y'know you could just edit the comment
do you need a bondulance?
it would be a 100x better than every preexisting valorant map lol
i swear its like those maps were made by an ai
TF2 has the big misbalance things but lesser and changing throughout the map. Upward for example changes which team has the high ground through choke points and check points
Sheesh dude nice video. Dude you're like very smart . Can you make an effective fps boosting video for valorant for low end pc?
>First mappers in the original Quake
Doom WADers: "Am I a joke to you?"
5:48 that poor bear
Can you make a video about Raze super boost jump?
"What makes a map COMPETITIVE?"
= A box
“It will get boring if you play it enough”
Raze satchels: “Do I not exist?”
Entertaining
I think the issue with some ow2 none symmetrical maps are that while the first point may be fairly balanced, point 2 is usually a steamroll for the attackers while point 3 is more favourably weighted depending on the map. Although an upside to this is that in esports (where u could pick ur map if u lost the one prior) it added strategy as some compositions would work better than others on certain maps. 2cp sucked tho cos both points sucked to attack.
I wish developer were more open about level design positions, often times when applying the job is buried between game design and environment art,
because it takes a little of both disciplines to truly create something unique. Good Level Design is hard, but Great level design can often take a large amount of trial and error, play-tests and balances to even get close to likable if not lovable.
4:44 and also amphibious assault on Normandy beach
I will try to make multiplayer fps game
I don't know if this game going to be competitive or not but one thing I know is that I will try to create as fun as can't
Man this guy is smart
Some things that weren't covered about Dust2 and why (CS in general) is very competitive, while CoD, Apex, etc aren't. Which basically boils down to fairness and skill expression with both mechanics and decision making:
1. 3-Lane design: This opens plenty of tactical options for a team. With 5 players each, defenders can't heavily protect every position. You have to make choices, how to divide your team. As an attacker, rushing isn't super viable either. If you put all your chips in one basket with a rush, you risk walking into their strongside. Or, their weakside might be able to hold you off with grenades/heavy covering fire until their team rotates or flanks you. This has skill expression too though, "Can I outfight the enemy before reinforcements arrive/the rush overwhelms me?" And that's related to:
2. Loops, Flow: Despite having 3 lanes, there are multiple pathways to switch between them. This enables _both_ sides to quickly rotate to another objective, but they're spaced out so you can't just immediately overpower a fight. This also enables opportunities for outflanking as both sides, but it's risk/reward once again if you make it too late. Or if the enemy keeps someone behind to camp it. This also leads to skill expression on whether or not you can 'outfight' the guy covering the rear.
3. Reasonable Chokepoints: Players are effectively funneled into certain 'combat areas' which means there's a consistency in where to expect fights and to plan ahead. But because there are a variety of options available, you can't account for _everything_ and have to try to predict your opponent and out-think them. These areas allow for a variety of tactical decisions, and skill expression, without being so 'random' that you ever feel like the enemy just gets lucky. Choices were made.
- Why games like CoD/Apex are bad:
1. Wide Open Maps: This just makes it so you have no movement control over players and essentially can be outflanked from anywhere at any time. There are _too_ many options which introduces chaos and randomness. And randomness is the enemy of balance. You want to be able to understand _why_ you won/lost, what you did wrong, what you did right. How to improve. And that it was all _fair_ and not left entirely up to chance.
2. Too Many Angles: There are usually a LOT of buildings which, instead of being used for lane control, can be freely entered. And usually have verticality and lots of windows. While it's important that someone can't cover an _entire_ area with their line of sight, it is important that there aren't _so_ many places to get shot from that you just get killed by chance. Another thing is that maps are super-cluttered instead of having fairly placed cover. So people can be hiding behind a trillion different crates, barrels, vehicles etc.
3. Limited Skill Expression: Because the maps are so wide open, and there are too many lines of sight, you can effectively be killed from anywhere at any time. You can frequently get killed, with zero opportunity to shoot back, because they popped out of 1 of 100 windows/doors/objects, and killed you before you could realize where you even got shot from. You can frequently get killed because some guy happened to take one of a million pathways to you, and you had zero ways to account for this and make intelligent tactical decisions for where to place your teammates, because there's just too many routes.
Splitgate also has both symetrical and unsymetrical maps
Also nice video
a great example of an unbalanced map would have to be junkertown on attack from overwatch. if your tank isnt aggressive enough to push out right as the match starts, youre likely to just be stuck getting spawncamped the whole game
Hi its me again 😁, remember me, can't wait to watch. P.S noti gang
I
V
The ubisoft part got me good
even as a man that dissents Valorant i was able to watch and enjoy this video, well done sir.
I'm glad
@@Archmeton :)
Wow the map in the thumbnail is already better than fracture
it is because of moral due to each team which starts on attack will likely lose and become disadvantaged in terms of mind set
would like to see your thoughts on the map data center for the game pavlov. it is a symmetrical map, but it is easily my favorite map where i have probably out in a few hundred hours into
I think I played it before, I think it's a good map because of verticality on the map, I will make a video about VR gaming in the future!
what program are you using to make your own valorant map? is it just hammer/ue with valorant assets?
Nice Vid
Why you still only have 40K subscribers? You should have more than 500K subscribers. Most useful valorant yt channel I've ever seen. ❤️
you can completely switch the map while still having the same map, by mirroring it. Play dust2 but mirrored, or mirrage. Its completely different map now.
Archmeton
nice
Wait valorant supports custom maps now? Thats amazing! Probably the most needed feature of the game after community servers and match replays. Hopefully I'll soon be able to fulfill my dream of playing d2 in valorant soon.
I tried looking up on how to make my own but i couldnt find anything, couldnt find anyone else comment about this either. Have you figured out how its done?
He is jsut using the models
@@asherdempster4992 thought this wasnt the case until i payed closer attention to the non existing shooting effects and other small things in the video, imo should be more obvious its just a few ripped assets and not actual valorant
@@asherdempster4992 seems like the incompetency of riot really knows no bounds...
hi archmeton :)
Ima be honest, I’ve played splitgate for enough times to realize they have symmetric maps, and have not actually realized that they have symmetric maps. In fact I can’t remember a single map that is symmetric in that game.
1:00 i feel represented. thank you for speaking up about this struggle, Archmeton.
so which valorant map is best in following -
i) competitive
ii) attacker friendly
iii) defender friendly
iv) unlimited fun (you can play endless amount of games in these without getting bored)
v) 1v1 with friends lets see who's better
vi) trolling (practical question ig)
vii) learning game mechanics
viii) difficulty
xi) easy for high elo hard for elo
xii) easy for low elo hard foe high elo
xiii) most symmetrical map
xiv) least symmetrical map
xv) most repetitive /boring map
xvi) best for deathmatches
xvii) best for shotguns/ar's/snipers
xviii) easiest/hardest to master
also i just realised i gave ya next video idea thank me later
Oni vandal and new knife oni what u tought to make it?
Day 1 of asking Arch to make a battle-royale sized map of valorant with all the maps combined
good one... damn!
New video idea: who is the best agent for a 1v1
This video is just a formal explanation on why split should come back
I just wish my friends weren’t so focused on rank because I’m tired of facing anything higher than silvers on csgo. I think we are all almost plat and I can pull my weight but damn do the games keep getting less and less enjoyable, even when I’m just chillin and playing for frags
I think it also depends on the game too
5:35 There are also other reasons for why a heavly sided map is not balenced for Valorant.
1. As the gameplay works, the heavily sided team can win the game even before switching sides if they win every round before the switch. And since is favored towards them the game hardly will flip, thus making it unbalanced
2. Regardless of whether both teams can win, heavily siding the map makes people dislike to play the rounds. The unfavored side will just try to win one round and after they do give up until it's their turn to win the game. This is just wasteful to everyone in the game as the unfavored team spends the entire first half of the game not winning by the design and the favored team spending every round after their first loss losing hope to achieve victory by design.
"Most competitive map" *picture of CUBE*