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Duped at the Farmers Market!
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2017
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Yep. It's true. I was dupped at the farmers market.
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About Curtis Stone:
Curtis is one of the world’s most highly sought-after small farming educators. His book, The Urban Farmer, offers a new way to think about farming𑁋 one where quality of life and profitability coexist. Today, Curtis spends most of his time building his 40-acre off-grid homestead in British Columbia. He leverages his relationships with other experts to bring diverse content into the homes of gardeners and aspiring small farmers from around the world. Learn more at FromTheField.TV.
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Preach it Curtis! Government intervention in any transaction causes ruin.
we have a 75% rule at ours, I grow microgreens and some other veggies, I buy local mushrooms and eggs, to add to what I sell. I label who I get them from and I will never claim I grow something if i don't. It's nice be able to sell other farms stuff so they don't have to have a table for a couple of things.
And I need to justify myself to pay the expenses of being at the farmers market: booth fee, insurance, peddler licence, etc
I notice when others repackage veggies into packages that look like it was their own harvest.
the management of the farmers market must do the regulating.
best
Curtus, thank you for having the courage to tell the truth - government intervention is not what the organic/small scale farmer needs.
If you are an organic small farm, with higher input costs to produce a better product, aren't you hurt by bad actors that lie about their product, buy it from large commercial producers and then resell it? Who is going to stop them? Will you just ask nicely and home the market sees through their lies before they run you out of business?
@@jp1563we are a micro-farm grown never using any inputs except woodchips, fall leaves from our property and organic JADAM fertilizers made here on the farm.
We sell at a farmers’ market and invite people to come out to our farm. I think every vendor should offer some sort of proof that they are actually growing what they sell. The three other vendors offering produce are resellers.
Absolutely agree on every account. I don't want the government coming in because then it doesn't allow for the individual expression of market farmers and it also is just one more way for them to cash in on an industry.
And there are lots of cases where government intervention is what has allowed people to express themselves... look at anti-rascist laws, laws that protect people being persecuted or attacked for their sexuality by other members of the community who want to express their hatred with impunity. What about the horrific practice of mining tar sands. Should this freedom of expression be allowed or should we be protecting the environment and the people that fish and farm in those areas polluted by oil spills? Its just such an unhelpful simplification to say all government intervention is bad, as much as it is to say that the government should solve all problems.
I was making a point about when government intervention is helpful and creates a better society. But you're right this should primarily be a a forum for constructive comments about farming. I just don't understand the almost totally negative attitude towards government regulation. I wish the government had intervened in London planning laws in the 1970s and 80s to prevent so much real estate being brought up by people had lots of money and who were benefitting from an advantage that young people today have no way of attaining. If they had, perhaps people with 'normal' jobs could afford to buy houses in London now. AS it is they can't because capitalist market economics was allowed to take precedent over almost every major decision concerning planning laws. The same is pretty much true of land. That's why vast swathes of land in the UK are being used to grow grass for horses so that people can have a horse and ride it round occasionally. Other land is owned by the church and the royal family as an investment. its not about appropriate food being grown for people that need it at affordable prices. All these issues are connected.
Yes governments commit a lot of crimes in the name of security and defence. People should be empowered to organise for themselves and their community and the environment which doesn't have any value in the market place. Yes governments can be incredible wasteful but look at the huge waste in human potential, obesity, ignorance in the USA mostly because the free market has been allowed to dominate, leading to lowest common denominator in food, news and information and job creation. Because the market doesn't care about the quality of product on a mass scale, Who said anything about crying to daddy government? I don't understand this infantile use of language as soon as you disagree with someone or want to get your point across. I don't cry to governments and if I did why is crying bad. Or are you the kind of human who sees crying as a weakness? I talk to my elected representatives just like I talk to people on my street. I do my job as best I can, I am a responsible human when I'm walking down the street. If my community is unhealthy it might be because everyone is eating junk food because thats what adverts and their parents have fed them or it might be because they're unmotivated or it might be because a oli drilling company has spilt toxic chemicals into their water supply. I wonder how you think your community is going to deal with human trafficking or climate change or nuclear proliferation? Lets leave it there as I'm sure Curtis doesn't want his videos clogged up with these kind of discussions that don't really change anything.
rodkersjourneys .. Oh dear, you really don't get it do you.
There are many cheap houses in the UK.
In Bradford the average is £129k, in London it's £423k.
Why?
Simple, people WANT to live in London, they definitely DON'T WANT to live in Bradford!!!
It's called freedom of choice.
How easy would it be if the farmers market made it where they had disclose where the food was from, just as a requirement. Make people aware is all everybody is asking. Are get the f out my market :)
Reagan,
Worst words ever spoken :
"Were from the Government and were here to help"
Reagan was a traitor (Iran Contra also very likely the CIA helped to import drugs INTO the U.S. to have black budgets für the death squads) and a know nothing ideologue. Being a dog whistling racistt and being diagnosed with Altzheimers a few months into his FIRST term rounds if of.
Small government is code for no taxes for rich people like me.
that was all it was about. Some tax reductions for regular folks (after all they have the vote) and many more and those were permanent for himself and his rich buddies. And a spending spree and exploding deficits to finance excessive military spending his military adventures (not to forget the illegal budgets of the CIA to finance death squads in latin America)and the missed revenue from highly profitable biz and rich folks.
The ideology of narrow self interest and vanity (because the citizen's ego is courted - making them think that the good times are all their own achievement and policies have nothing to do with it) - helps the rich. Small government is code for low taxes for those that can pay them w/o negative effect on the economy. It is also code for woefully underfunded public non-profit services. (the top 30 % of the popualtion can have the for-profit private solutions. THEY save more on taxes than the private schools and healthcare. the security for the gate community etc cost them. Their vehicles also need more repairs bu they can afford it.
And no environmental protection (the inadequate laws are not enforced) does not harm them - or so they think. Fracking and piplines and chemical spills do not happen where the real estate of the rich is located.
People were not stupid or lazy in the early 1930s either. Not in the U.S. and not in Europe, but that could not undo the effects of small government - the U.S. was intentionally laissez faire. the U.S. small government ideology really meant - our buddes can do as they please, it does not mean: fair or common sense or free and fair market or a level playing field for all.
The libertarians that run the U.S. on behalf of the oligarchs allowed the bubble to build, were completely suprised by the crash of 1929 and did nothing to remedy the situation - 'cause small government:
They did _something_ but it did not match the mess they had allowed to develop before, so it was woefully inadequate. The U.S.was on the brinks of a national bank run when FDR was sworn in in March 1933, that was the first thing the admin did:
Sorting out the banking system.
the BIG government polices had made possible) had infected the citizens already in the 1980s. The older generation, and the people growing up in the 1950s had forgotten the lessons from the Great Depression. Truman became president in 1945 but was up for election (his first) in 1948 and was expected to lose. The farmers of the Midwest handed him his surprising win (turning what looked like a narrow loss on election night into a solid win, once their results came in).
The Republican was against the New Deal and promised to end it. Of course, the Republicans had always been the party of biz and professionals - and they used to be the party of farmers, but the massive help also farmers got from big government was not forgotten.
Of course some people were hell bent to end the high taxes for the rich - they were hated by the upper class, and large biz - the large industries had the high profits, the mom and pop operations had a good middle class income if it worked out for them and did O.K. tax wise, it was not intended to hit _them._
The only way a biz could avoid paying taxes if they were doing really well:
Investing
Paying workers well (higher costs = less profit)
FDR got himself 4 times elected, and Truman, Eisenhower, JFK continued the New Deal policies, not even Nixon change a lot of that.
Eisenhower reminded his own party that it was unpatriotic to be against Social Security, he stuck to the New Deal policies. Another big government intervention and in 1936 I think. Things were not going well then, but they paid that money to the retired (white) folks. Domestic and farm workers did not get it so the Dixiecrats made sure that not too many people of color got SS. But that was of course a massive cash injections into the folks that spent the money (not hoarding it).
part of the sluggish recovery despite the unprecedented measures - the international exchange of goods was reduced and Europe prepared for war. The recovery of 1940 showed the FDR admin had not been bold enough, once the massive government spending for WW2 was started they had a boom (and that boom started before the U.S. entered the war, domestic building of the military equipment and lots of exports - to the U.K. for instance. Congress had to pass a law that granted the U.K. a large loan so the U.S. manufacturerers could sell military equipment )
The Japanese had China occupied, so no markets there either in the 1930s and 1940s.
Keep government out of this stuff. Take the steps to ask questions and educate youself.
J K agreed, Bubbles. Show me your kitties.
Nice thing about our local farmers markets here is that they verify the farmers. They verify land leases or ownership and that you are the grower. There is no cost to the grower and it is done by the market not by government. In the state of Washington, most of the farmers markets are all members of a farmers market alliance and agree to abide by certain rules. One of the rules that helps along these lines is that they restrict the market to only farmers who grow their produce either within the county or in a directly neighboring county. More than one county away and you will absolutely be rejected as a vendor.
Fuck that, the last thing small farmers need is government getting involved. We can not permit this.
SIN CITY FARMING ... Dear oh dear.
And you are going to take on your Government exactly HOW?
Curtis, you are spot on. I am sure that things work the same way in the USA as well. If, and when we start selling at the farmers market, we will advertise that we grew the wares we are selling. Thank you for the suggestion.
In CA they require licensing of farmers who sell at local markets. I don't like it because it's an additional cost to the farmer that has no discernible return.
In Australia, there's new regulations for all farmers that wish to sell their produce coming into affect in January 2018 - regardless at a market or to the distributor. The changes are being implemented partially because government wants further regulation, and mostly because commercial growers do not want small farmers taking up any part of their marketshare - smaller growers make a larger profit per kg than commercial farmers.
Government is run by idiots with an agenda.
TELL THEM CHRIS, you are one heck of a man that does a lot, I know I'm learning so much from you, love your vidoes ,thanks so much for standing tall, being so smart and useful and intuitive, your honest and helpful. You definitely are helping this world, Thank God your here man!
Great vid Curtis!
Please more on this subject as it evolves. As a farmer seeing resellers at our farmers market is so frustrating after all the effort we put into our produce.
I went to Soulard Farmer's Market in St. Louis, MO. It started in 1779. I asked the vendors about their farm. One duo had no idea where theirs was. I think the best solution is simple to talk to the vendors. If they don't know, I thank them and walk on.
Verified growers can be managed by the growers. It makes sense, especially when you lose the value do to resellers!
So, here where I am there are two types of farmer's markets: Certified and uncertified. The certified markets have special privileges in regards to taxes and the ability to accept forms of welfare payments. It's simple to get into the markets and an agent from the State Extension office just comes to the location that you file once to make sure that you are actually a farm and that you are the one growing there. The extension agent doesn't have any legal authority to enforce anything (beyond denying your acceptance into the market if you lie about your operation), but they will kindly educate you on the regulations that could be enforced should someone file a complaint. They are really very helpful people. So, while I can agree that government intervention and oversight can generally be costly and prohibitive it isn't always the case. Right now the government is generally desperate for more farmers and extend quite a bit of latitude to anyone trying to get into the business. Here the certified markets actually reduce the barriers to entry, but you still have the freedom to start an uncertified market pretty much anywhere at your own discretion.
In our area the major well known markets have a self imposed inspection. It doesn’t take long or cost much. I’ve noticed that the markets with reselling don’t really have a membership process.
our market here is policed by the coordinator. she visits the vendors farms/gardens to assure they are legit.
Good idea. Government never comes to help, they come for the money.
Here in Austin, the farmers market has to be licensed, and only allowed to have vendors that are selling their own product. They are expected to enforce the rule. If you are selling more than 50k per year, then you need a permit. Most farmers market charge 25 dollars for an application process, some as high as 100 dollars. Simple, straightforward government intervention that does a good job of preventing resellers.
Thank you government, you did it right.
Same situation where I live - local government grants access tot he markets, they do not fine, but the peer pressure will bust the ceaters (at the local level people and farmers know each other), a reseller or conventional farmer posing as organic would not get far. some might be stretching the limits, but they have to remain plausible.
A the farmer's markets in towns resellers are not allowed (a farmer or seller must produce most of what they sell).
Thank you for addressing the "government solution" as it's called! I wasn't aware this was going on... but I'm sadly not surprised... However, I agree with you... let's keep it pure and regulate it ourselves!
I love what you do regarding your marketing and branding of your product. You have a unique skill set.
In the town I live in we have certified farmers market that to get in the certified are you have to prove you are direct grower. They have a reseller section that is clearly marked
We buy regularly at the local Farmers Market. You can tell easily which are retailers and which are not - look at the packaging at the back of the store - if still not sure ask questions about how the produce has been produced ( i.e. how do you get spring onions so early in the year around here ?) - The market manager ( who decides who get stalls etc ) can easily control this.
A couple of years ago we went to a very popular acreage vegetable seller. We poked around and chose some produce, and I happened to look through a dooreway into a backroom. And there was a young guy unbagging carrots into a tub, instantly creating premium farm fresh carrots out of ordinary grocery store carrots.
I saw the same video other day. I agree, I saw tomatoes being sold in early July. especially this everyone had no tomatoes almost.
I now a farm stand in New Hampshire that has a road side stand with a Garden out back and chickens out front the vegetables truck show up every day or two he plants the garden let go to weed but has appearance that every thing is grown there he also resell egg from the store
The U.S. President Donald John Trump, will invoke "extreme vetting" visually seen illegal immigrants and unlawful Mexican migrants; doing the farming of hard labor and low wages....?!
Simple solution: consumers beware. If it matters to you if you buy from a grower, then do your research...ask questions. We DONOT need more government intervention. Period.
Great video and well done in the information. And totally agree with gov not putting their tentical ino one of a few last freedoms left.
Thank you for this. Keep pushing the issue. There was a CBC Marketplace report on this in Ontario as well. So frustrating.
How do these people sleep at night, knowing that they bold -faced lie to customers.
I'm all for regulation, but share your concerns about the government making it difficult for ACTUAL farmers.
Right on the money Curtis, our market is regulated by the farmers market board made of of farmers, they come out to every farm and take pics etc. it helps keep people honest.
Curtis, a banner or pull up display including photographs of farm and market workers working in the field or greenhouse acts as photographic prove of local grown produce.
The U.S. President Donald John Trump, will invoke "extreme vetting" visually seen illegal immigrants and unlawful Mexican migrants; doing the farming of hard labor and low wages....?!
In California there is a Certified Farmers Market system like Curtis Mentioned visited by other Farmers then there is Country deptments of Agriculture inspected fee for inspection by country ranges by volume and products sold from $60.00 a year to 135.00 a lot of them are selling non farm products hats cosmetics tupperware
Here in the Southeast U.S., we call them "pinhookers" -- people selling produce at market that they didn't grow themselves.
In Tennessee, to sell at a FM you have to display your license, and if organic, then BOTH licenses.
The best solution is consumer's education. Although, not all consumers can afford the higher price (for quality) there is room for everybody. Put the decision in the hands of the consumer :)
thank you for working this topic Curtis..so important
Thumbs up for pointing out the responsibility of the market board of directors to police the quality of all markets.
I'm glad you addressed this. I believe that there are people at our market that use food stamps to buy the food they resell. That's a hard model to compete with. We live in meth-country and the farmers market can turn food stamps into drug money. We put pictures up of our farm, Facebook, videos of harvesting. But a lot of older people don't know what's going on or don't care. Somehow, we also have people constantly tell us we don't grow what we sell. That's what all the pictures are for though. The funny thing is it's the government solution to hunger that's hurting the farmers.
I agree💚 The beauty of going to the farmers market is supporting that local, private farmer/vendor. Regulate that and farmers markets will loose their quality and charm.
You educated me today regarding the people claiming to be farmers, but just being resellers! Thank you for another quality tid-bit💚
a couple of us farmers set up a farmer's market to include local handmade arts &craft and baked goods. we did out own inspections to insure every farmer/vender were in compliance. the last thing you want is for the government to get involved. presently, i'm the only farmer at this farmers market with a few arts & craft and about 2 pastry venders. the farmer who's original idea this was, she passed on. we continue without gov't intervention.
Perhaps pressure should be put on the organizers of the market...they should establish rules and yes verify the farms in the market. All Farmers Markets should operate this way...yes we do not want the government involved....they produce unbending rules and restrict our free will to be able to purchase what we want eg direct purchases from dairy farms
Collective citizens who fail to control themselves, can and will be controlled!
In Minnesota (USA) our state constitution protects small farmers who sell only directly to consumers from most regulations such as licensing which is great especially for beginners. But for everyone I think the best approach is for farm market growers to self-regulate their markets. Here in Alexandria where I live one of the conditions for participating in the Farmers Market is that you can only sell what you produce. That way the public can be educated through any market promotion to buy from growers not re-sellers.
At the start of the trend I immediately thought it was a scam, I found a woman and kept going to her at a local farmers market and finally noticed a sticker from Mexico, it’s not easy out here, but now I look online to buy directly from farms and were able to find a lot in my state
In the UK we do have different rules and the big thing here is where or not it is organic, but certification is hard to get very regulated and when you start to farm it takes time to go completely organic you can still by good local foods and buying local is sometimes the best thing you can do support small local growers and get good quality food.
Makes me think of Rungis in France, the biggest market place in Europe, so many resellers in every town !!! hope I will change the rules with my production next year, bringing about an authentic veggie booth
I believe that a lot of consumers are educated enough to know that if someone is selling corn in June, where is it coming from? I picked up a package of strawberries once and read that it was from mexico. I saw a guy buy tomatoes from the local grocery store and set them up at a farmers market! Curtis was right way back when where you get to know not only your customers but the customers getting to know there farmers and where there food is coming from.
Nailed It! Curtis.
Create a free market bureau for regulating and do it yourself before the government steps in. Find people that want to be certified and name it something like bureau of small scale agricultural operations or w/e you may choose to call it.
The woman that funded the build of our market requires the local extension office to issue a growers certificate. It's easy for the farmer, no charge, but you are right or trickle down to taxes. I love our extension office and the staff. They are very helpful, and often a great resource for me. I could see how it could get out of control in some places though. Thank you for this perspective.
But realize you are at the front line of a movement of quality. Every person who takes your coarse or learns from your Chanel takes your passion and passes it along
One guy at a farmer market that I went too had photos around his table a TV going with him working his farm and posted his information and invited people to come over
Hi, in europe, thier is a simple rule/law: You have to say where the product commes from: So on top of the vegetable tag, their is the price and coutry or region it commes from. That how i very quikly understood that the vegetables i bought in the market where not from their own farm. Bananas from Canaries iland, Tomatoes from maroco.... Simple and effective.
No the government shouldn't be involved. I don't really have a problem with resellers if they are honest about it. I would prefer that you grow what you sell but it's not always the case. Most of or all the markets around here don't allow resellers. As it was mentioned we just have to set ourselves apart and educate them on what we do at our farms. We can change it rather than government. Thanks for the video.
I just inherited 1 1/2 acre. Its a weedy mess!! I wish you could come and show me what to do to start. I am SO overwhelmed!
+panzer thecat welcome to the club. Push on through!
I'm lucky to live near several good supermarkets. The produce is high quality & affordable. That means our farmers markets are local food because there's no reason to go for resellers. We had a reseller market before & it didn't last, folks are picky at the farmers market now because it's expensive & they know where it's coming from.
I understand the desire to regulate but I think going the route we do for CNG (Certified Naturally Grown) here in the States. You are not certified organic but your practices are reviewed by other sellers and your peers certify you.
Here we have "growers" and "farmers" markets. One growers market has you agree that you are indeed the grower, and has the ability to inspect your garden to make sure you are really growing what you bring to market. If the "grower" is found to be reselling imported produce, they are asked to stop - if they continue, they will be asked to leave, or not allowed to enter the next market. Key point, if your a market and want no reselling, call it a "growers market" and implement this policy to run off the vendors that are not honest. I know in Texas, farmers markets are mostly if not 100% resold produce, but here in the Albuquerque area, we make a point to call the market a "growers" or "farmers", and we try to educate customers on the difference. At the end of the day, government is not needed for this poilcy to be placed upon a market(hello market managers).
Man up and call them out, don't ask the government.
Went to our local farmers market this past Saturday and saw the same thing. Atleast a few left the labels on so we New it wasn’t farm fresh.
So glad you did a video on this. Thanks. Great insights!
I wish I could like this bigger! NO CENTRAL CONTROL! Each locale and market should regulate itself. A producers only or strict bylaws solve a lot of these issues.
I run a local market. We have a lot of markets in our region, but our is the only market that visits each farm as part of the annual membership vetting process to specifically stop reselling. The a market near us is primarily resellers buying a Wal-Mart and reselling as their own products. People dont know and its So sad.
In Italy we fixed the problem to the root: the farmer can sell up to 50% of the products from the general markets to offer the customer a satisfactory variety. :(
Happens here too in Indiana. The grocery store type labels are on the tomatoes still and they are selling them at the farmers market. This is an education issue. Just keep raising awareness. It’s going to take time!
100% agree this is a problem in London ont aswell and people just dont know about it. Thank you for spreading the word!!!!!
I've seen this at the local farmer's market which is pretty small, it's pretty obvious if you're a grower.
I saw that CBC video and your video just changed my opinion on government regulation... I simply didn't consider the downsides but they make so much sense, thanks for opening my eyes to another view on this subject. I do take the time at farmer's markets to look, ask and see who really does grow their own stuff, sometimes it's a mixture but many of the markets I go to actually label where everything comes from (right down to farm name and address) and it appears quite honest.
You sound like you would make a good libertarian politician lol. Keep up the good work!
You are absolutely right, Curtis.
Yes, yes by all means the objective should be to keep the Feds out, they only complicate matters and create problems where none existed before! Such a COOL Farmer's market here Curtis, when you viewed the produce couldn't help notice they have the brown tomatoes there, bought some organically certified 2 years ago at Walmart and they were so GOOD!
Another serious issue at farmer's markets is the claim of organic, while the seller is buying or raising chemically treated produce and products. Then simply and blatantly lying about it.
Great discussion in this video.
A reseller buys it from someone who grew it aka a farmer right?
It's a hard one, because there is big money to be made in markets, and over time a small local farmers only market can grow into something like the market you are at, where it is a large indoor building, and it is open 5 days a week, and how can any small scale farmer sell at a market like that? It makes sense for a market farmer to have a day a week that they leave the farm and go to market, but once you ask them to basically start a second green grocer business in order to sell their product, you are going to be losing the original idea, and then, why not also provide those customers with some imported citrus fruit as well as their locally grown veggies to make the shopping experience better.
In my limited experience with small markets, I have learned that a market is only as good as the person running it. We have lots of government regulation already in place around market selling, and it is up to the market organizers and the businesses themselves to make sure that they are following them. The "brown M&M" test means nothing when the person putting on the concert has no idea what a "rider" is, and then things can start to get dangerous, and who cares about fraud.
I personally do worry about small market vendors knowledge, especially when it comes to food vendors. As items like home canning become more desirable, but without the American system of home extensions to help people with best practices, I worry about what could happen to the customers of that "healthy" low calorie, low salt, new to canning business at the local farmers market. The unfortunate reality is common sense isn't very common, and for every smart professional business owner, like Curt, there is someone who has no idea what they are doing. Government doesn't have to mean restrictive regulations, but rather helping people to provide the best services possible, and I would love to see more knowledge and education being provided to new business owners as a great form of "preventative medicine".
Very, very well-said, Curtis....."government bureaucracy" is necessary for the enforcement of punitive measaures on "corporate abusers" especially in the "agri-chem" Industry; as the promotion of pesticides is very "profitable" but very unhealthy for the human being. The "least is best" strategy regarding "chemical solutions" to pests has always been best!L.o.l. However, when "free-enterprized", irresponsibly promotes pesticide usage "just for profit" we do need governmental regulation. I am so happy that you understand the difference, Sir! Less governmental or public sector interference for "small business" entrepreneurial enterprizes" such as "urban farming" which you promote is best! However, we need the government to both regulate and punish "abusers" especially in "corporate farming" on a massive scale who could care less about health, welfare and sustainability or ethics! You are a great Canadian Entrepreneur and I will follow you....
I'm Shocked that gambling is going on! If someone has the wherewithal to get off their ass and to start a small business reselling produce, good for them. What I AM tired of is all of the pissant consumers who do NOTHING to become a producer (how many of THEM have a garden???) whining that others are assuming responsibility for their choices.
NO regulations are needed - and those proposing them are simply whiny assed consumers waiting for the proverbial "they" to do what they have abdicated the responsibility to do for themselves!
The fact is that a "farmer's market' is an anachronistic term from a day when farmers were common! Now its simply an open produce and crafts market. If someone wants to advertise that they are a local producer - GREAT! Support them. If not, one has a greater degree of choice than is offered at your local big box store! And FUCK the whiners calling for re-sellers to be banned! The answer? If you can't make informed decisions without the government telling you what to do, just keep hiding under your bed and STFU.
Yes! Decentralized and self regulate! All the government should do is keep the peace and enforce legitimate contracts. At least as far as farmer's markets go.
Totally agree about government raising barriers for our farmer's markets!
In my county (Marin County, 2 miles north of San Francisco), all vendors at farmer's market must have grown what they sell. This is regulated by the county government through inspections. The cost is nominal (at least for now), as it is run by the local county. If it was run by the state of California, the cost would be far greater. If it were run by the federal government, the barrier to entry would be insurmountable....
I like the idea of peer inspections, especially if they cost the grower nothing.
It's interesting that you talk about barriers to entry for new/small growers set up by government. We've been finding that the majority of farmers markets where we are (Australia) are owned/run by a couple of big companies and that in itself is creating barriers for small farmers and favouring 'resellers'
Where I live the _local_ government sets up the markets and farmers markets at public places (stand fee is modest) and they regulate resp. could refuse to let a vendor have a stand if they cheat. And the spaces are either rotated or all are fairly comparable.
It is a honor system (with some legal backup for the worst offenders, but usually fines are not needed, withdrawing the permission to sell is the punishment). Peer pressure and monitoring (other farmers and they KNOW each other) - the peers (other sellers) know when a vendor cheats.
They cannot claim to have cabbage (when they did not grow it that year) or to have produced without herbicides and pesticides (but not certified as "organic") if their neighbours know they produce conventionally. It WILL come up.
some cheating is possible but folks usually know not to overdo it, or they will get busted, someone will alert the local regulators. and if he or she does nothing about it even the mayor (in smaller communities) may hear about it.
Some farmers sell products that would meet organic standards - but do not bother to be under one of the umbrella organizations.
"organic" is strictly protected in the EU, no one can use that term unless they have the certification, not small or larger actors.
But for a smaller operation that can be too burdensome. Still such a farmer must be plausible - a conventional farmer will not get away with wrong claims, the other farmers know him or her, their stables, when they shop the fodder from the same sales representative or at the local co-op, if they have the chicken free ranging, and if they spay the fields someon would notice.
How much money you get for your crop is a hot issue for farmers and if a grower achieves better prices but produces like them it infuriates them ;) There will be gossip and side glances and passive aggressive remarks or "jokes" in the pub, and after church. So the wanna be cheaters also normally know better and don't take it too far.
At smaller markets only producers are allowed and those from the regions are prefered. A vendor with specialities (not vegies, but salves, condiments, liqueurs, crafted products, bacon and specialities) might be allowed on the regional markets (especially if there is no local producer ;).
They also could get a stand at the parking space of a large retailer OR in or nearby a mall. That is private, and they can do as they please.
If Govt gets involved the price of the product will go way up, profits will go down, and the industry will be ruined.
Curtis, you are wise beyond your years.
Educate what good produce is. The last thing you need is government getting involved.
Guilty grownup government gangsters!
The problem with putting the onus on the organizers/board is that you could still get the same sort of bias, due to close ties/friendships, especially if people have been selling there for a long time. For example; if you proposed clearly displaying signs for resellers vs. growers there could be some serious backlash from the old time resellers.
I agree government can make things worse. But you could have certifications, where a grower can get their stall certified perhaps? Then they could display this at their stall.
Even before all that, I would simply have some clear signage that informs the customer that everything sold at my stall is grown by me, locally.
I was at a market south of Edmonton in Leduc... "Nice cucs! Do you grow all your produce" "yes we do" "oh ya? Nearby?" "yes just south of Leduc" "must be REALLLLY south... California south" observing sticker on cucumbers...
The U.S. President Donald John Trump, will invoke "extreme vetting" visually seen illegal immigrants and unlawful Mexican migrants; doing the farming of hard labor and low wages....?!
Charles Davis what?.. I am just saying the produce that was "grown locally" was not in fa t loval at all and the vendor was lying- fraud
Fact* local*
We have one reseller, its obvious, we are going to print up a flyer to go in the sack with a simple message on how to spot a reseller and what a reseller is.
There has to be some kind of administration in these cases. The administration should be responsible for vetting the market vendors and making sure re-sellers are a low percentage or non-existent portion of the vendors.
Good vid to spread awareness, Curtis 👍🏻
Government needs to stay out especially in the infancy of our great yard to farm thought process. Government intervention could and would make it harder for everyone.
Hoping to sell at a local market this year. It's known as a market full of hockers (resellers). Established members that grow their own claim that customers are recognizing homegrown from resell produce. If your carrots are too straight and super clean.....
Love the videos, super helpful and inspiring. Hopefully still as inspired later in the summer
The Farmers market I attend I am also on the board and we have legal frame work written so we can inspect a farm if need be. All the produce at our market are grown on our island , Hawaii island (aka the big island). We have only one resaler that is basically allowed in to help service the lower income folks that want to buy local. This is the way to regulate a market. And to make sure you have an honest market manager that gets paid a decent wage.
If the government steps in you will get insane barrier to entry such as the new food safety modernization act that the USA fda is trying to get going. This regulation alone has made several Farmers I know quit has raised the entry level to insane heights and has some nothing to make food safer as we are still having lysteria and be other food born illnesses that require recalls.
I agree too, local regulation is the only kind that works and it should be done by the farmers market themselves. Also there will be farmers markets that like having both options it should be up to the local community that supports the farmers market. Any other model only lends to corruption, the wrong people being license and the barrier to entry is so high no one can enter without help.
Theresa Hopkins I used to think the same thing, however, I now believe local regulations are the most oppressive.
Due to the fact that local can not over turn state (or provincial) and states (or Provence) can not overturn Federal, local government has to make more nit picky "laws" (actually statues, but whatever). While local can be more responsive, and easier to make an actual change, local government is the most oppressive.
It's a common practice all over the world. But you can tell the difference if you know what you are buying.
The individual markets can easily step in here. The one near me requires that everything be posted with where it's grown. Enforcing this is obviously a bit difficult, but at the same time, there is a difference in the customer "assuming:" something is local and a reseller straight out lying and saying it was grown local.
Basically, don't set up at a Farmers Market where there is 95% resellers. Where you might think hey you will stand out as an O.G. but it could just as well backfire.
I could not agree more. no government needs to be involved. this can be done thru the local growers community. hopefully this will be the chosen course if action.
I can appreciate not wanting government involvement, but on the other hand as a consumer I want my local farmer's market to actually be locally-sourced foods, and it isn't. I live in Illinois (USA) and I won't continue to buy at farmer's markets if the produce is partly what I can get at my grocery store anyway, and since I can't easily tell which is which. For me the whole point is to buy locally- or at least regionally-sourced foods.
Agreed!... Government has it's roll and this is not one of them.
Anytime you have food available close by for less than you can grow it yourself you will have reselling. Can't blame the sellers. And often times that produce IS of high quality.
Agreed, no government. As a new farmer I have enough huddles to overcome (i.e., acquiring the skills and knowledge to grow and sell quality food), government regulation would likely add dramatically more hurdles. Is there anyway we can "police" ourselves? Obviously, educating the consumer is the best and biggest step; is there a way to do that that we're missing? Maybe that's an opportunity for someone with expertise in marketing. Good video, you made me think about solutions!
Govt should be limited to reasonable public health and safety measures only. E.g. cannot force a dairy producer to pasteurize all milk - but can require honest labelling. Some customers really want unpasteurized milk for cheese-making. Intrigued by the decentralised-policing idea.
Must be a different world in Canada ay? Because all my research has said 1. You will be required by the county to apply and pass inspection for a growers permit, which requires you to have those items you wish to sell, actually being produced on site. 2. You must be licensed as a business. and 3. You must agree beforehand not to sell produce you didn't produce. These are sham markets, they should all be just shut down until the community or market manager gets a hold of the situation. A farmers markets without integrity is no better than kids running a lemonade stand and peeing in the product.
was also on Marketplace. and they proved it.
Consumers want the truth but having the government stepping in is not required. I like how Curtis is suggesting how to do it.
Having licensing will invite in the chance for corruption for one and two licensing will, through government inspections (which will require a list of criteria) could shut down farms who are starting out on a shoe string budget who can't afford a fancy washing station or other possibly mandatory infrastructure. Government involvement is a bubble waiting to blow up.
Educate the buyer who wants only local and have them put the resellers out of business.