Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Are preset makers creating tone-illiterate guitar players? // Plus, Tone Junkie rates our guitars!
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- Huge thanks to HW and Sooze from Tone Junkie for hanging with us! Go follow them here: / @tonejunkietv and here: tonejunkiestor...
In this video we rate the guitars at Worship Tutorials, and we have a discussion about whether we as preset creators are helping or hurting guitar players
Table of contents:
00:00 - Welcome to Worship Guitar Friends and Tutorials show
01:17 - Burger talk
05:01 - Rating our guitars
24:42 - Are we as preset builders creating tone illiterate guitar players?
40:00 - Are we leaning into gear too much?
50:00 - Should we learn old tech to be able to use new tech?
53:40 - Do preset makers have an obligation to teach how to use the gear?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Download Pads and instantly elevate your worship sets: www.worshiptut...
View our Helix Patches: worshiptutoria...
Join our Facebook group for worship leaders and worship team members: / 297108460822183
Join our Facebook P&W Gear group: / 2113165795376666
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our vision is that every church in the world would experience worship that is both excellent and authentic. We are here to help you make that happen.
CURRENT GEAR - stuff we use in (and to make) videos
Cameras:
Sony FX3: amzn.to/3TEa80p
Sony a74: amzn.to/3fWONBd
Acoustic Guitars:
McPherson Acoustics (Camrielle, Carbon Fiber Sable): mcphersonguita...
Martin D-35 // www.zzounds.co...
Martin 000-28 // www.zzounds.co...
Taylor 414ce // www.zzounds.co...
LR Baggs Anthem Pickup (in both) // www.zzounds.co...
Capos:
G7th Performance Capos:
Amp modelers we make presets for:
Line 6 Helix // www.zzounds.co...
Line 6 HX Stomp // www.zzounds.co...
Kemper // www.zzounds.co...
Fractal Axe-FX III, FM3, FM9 // www.fractalaud...
Quad Cortex: www.sweetwater...
Recording Interface:
Universal Audio Apollo // www.zzounds.co...
In-Ear Monitors:
Ultimate Ears: myinears.com
/////////////////////////
Web: www.worshiptuto...
Facebook: / worshiptutorials
Instagram: / worshiptutorials
Twitter: / wrshptutorials
As a caveat to the title of this video: the presets that we make at Worship Tutorials (and what they make at Tone Junkie) are built around the impulse responses that we create. Specifically the Tone Match IR’s.
These require quite a bit of expensive equipment to make properly, not to mention the amps themselves that they’re made from. These types of things are not really accessible by the average guitar player, and we feel that’s where much of the value of our presets come from.
For me, I was tone-illiterate without presets, so they're a no-brainer for me. I don't understand how to dial in tones I want, and while I could probably learn if I needed to, I don't have the time or desire to learn all the tricks. I'd rather spend my guitar time getting better at playing, not fiddling with knobs. Thanks for what you guys do.
That Helix preset build video during Covid was one of the best tools for me when I first got my Helix. I knew I could purchase "song ready" patches, but I wanted to be able to make things my own and set up stuff for my style of playing, so that video was INSTRUMENTAL in my learning how to utilize my unit!
If it was not for the group of preset makers out there.. you guys and @thetoneshepherd making videos and presets I would not have a frame of reference. I have learned a great deal! Like many of us , I don’t have access to the real tube amps, so knowing how to use this technology and how they even sound is Awesome! Thank you all!
Interesting conversation. Millennial here who started out around the mid 2000s, when tube amps and stomp boxes were pretty much the only real way to get a convincingly good tone. Chased tone for about a decade going through countless overdrives right up till Helix was released in 2015.
So thankfully I know my way around how to get a good tone out of the gear, but it was still mind-blowing once I got hold of your presets because the complexity and creativity behind the patches is still another level above what I was able to dream up myself.
So yes I guess its possible that you are enabling people to skip past the "learning how to tweak" phase but at the same time you are also inspiring ageing millennials like me and proving that learning and creativity in crafting tones never stops.
Keep up the good work and I'd love if you guys were able to do more content about your decision making process when it comes to building your sounds.
No Hamburgers were harmed in this episode.
So my story is a little different. 20 years ago I was a worship leader at a bigger (for my area in Montana) church. Long story short, I lost all hearing out of my right ear. I can’t afford a cochlear implant so I’m stuck with one ear which also has nerve damage. I have about 85% in my left ear which means that there are certain frequencies (high) that I simply can’t hear. I don’t sing anymore because I have to many pitch issues. But I have never stopped playing guitar for worship.
Modelers have literally saved my musical life. Due to budget restrictions I bought the PodGO. I have used WT presets (and others) trusting that you guys have it dialed in. I have a friend that makes some minor tweaks here and there but for the most part they are plug and play. I have an awesome team that helps me get all plugged in.
At some point I will upgrade to a helix or even an HXstomp but for now this is what I have. I really appreciate you guys and all the other preset builders. I’m gonna check out tone junkies page as well.
Thanks guys!!
Thanks guys! Great conversations. Blessings to all of you and your families!
I think one of the best things I did when I first got a modeler was spend hours and hours just learning it. Building and tweaking my own presets. I did that for a while before I ever bought a preset or IRs. No I can grab a preset / IR, and it feels like a cheat code to a great sound that I know how to tweak to my specific parts.
You guys are doing great things for tone. When I first started, I knew absolutely nothing, so I played a Boss MetalZone straight to the PA. Only in the last couple of years did I realise how important an amp is. I got a simulator and have just moved onto the Helix Floor. I know way more than I did many years ago, and it's from watching people like you build and describe the presets you make.
Yep. Your amazing patches have allowed me to think about other things until I get around to learning more about how that tone is really built. Thank you- I greatly appreciate it!😮
🙌🏻
Nice video chaps. And to be honest ballsy and self reflective to take this topic on in the position that both groups are in. Respect for that.
I’m an older guitar player. Late 40s let’s just say. I have changed my preferences of the tones I’m looking for as I’ve gotten older but it’s always been from actual ideas of what I wanted in my head. I’ve then tried various pieces of equipment until I found either what I was looking for or discovered something so inspiring that I changed course.
Important to mention I’m predominantly an original artist as opposed to a “guitar player” so my perspective may be different.
The point here is I believe that presets ultimately hamper creativity. Immediately jumping to use someone else’s tone is not the best place to start to find your own sound, voice and message. It’s better to just try amps on a modeller until you find what moves you with your guitar and go from there.
I agree with your statement about the amps. I am 67 years old. I have played professionally on amplifiers I started in bars, played Colosseum and now I play out occasionally having had amplifiers of every kind you could think of it definitely gives me a edge on what amps are supposed to sound like. I use tone, junkie profiles and worship tutorial profiles when they are played with the band in a big stadium at loud volume. They sound amazing.if I used them in my studio They will sound different and I will eq them differently As with a real amp in your studio and then take it on stage sounds quite different that’s why I use the same presets and eq different patches for two different situations.
Good pickups make a huge difference in how captures/presets sound. I couldn’t get a good sound out of my modelers for years. Honestly thought I was just bad at playing electric guitar. Then I installed Lambertones in my guitar and it significantly improved my playing experience!
HAVEN'T SEEN A TEAM UP LIKE THIS SINCE END GAME
The biggest issue here (based on the premise of tone-illiterate guitarists) is that we are dealing with now the 2nd generation of players who have had presets. When the Line 6 flextone was mentioned, it was almost like an automatic transmission in a car, or writing in cursive. There are 2 generations of guitarists now who have never had to find their own tone, or the tone in their head. They expect to enter a code, and have it. I watched one of my co-worship guitarists try to play through my Ampeg VL series amps, and he admitted he has never owned an amplifier. No one goes through a collection of bad sound amps anymore and trying to wrest that tone out of their hands.
As such, I am a minimalist when I play worship. No effects, save for some reverb and a little delay. And I watch the other player 'tap dance' to get what they want. No thought of the tone in their hands.
(this entire could be replaced with 'you young whippersnappers get off of my lawn)
Great stuff your always entertaining and informative!
To me; too much of anything is a bad thing. If you ONLY download presets and depend on them to play. that you cannot really blame anyone for making you tone-illiterate. Now, if you take presets and use them to learn your modeler and fiddle around with it. That (to me) helps!
Yes.... and no. I have found that a lot of players that I encounter that buy their sounds, really seem to struggle finding good sounds because they haven't actually ever really created their own, and many of them sound the same because they use the same presets. But, I have seen a few players work backwards through a preset and learn things that way. Presets can be handy, but always suggest trying to build their own sounds and tones. Only my opinion though:)
Bradford knowing what Minus the Bear is, let alone their love of the DL4 was not on my 2024 bingo card. I don't think I've ever respected him more.
I think its because when you build a preset, you dont fill the signal chain and hope it all sounds good together straight away. You start with your amp tone, you add your compressor and drives, then your wet effects, etc. Every choice builds on the previous choice.
When tweaking a preset someone else has built, I find it daunting knowing what my tweaks are going to impact. If I turn my amp treble down, does that effect the way my drives respond to the amp, etc.
Also, now that we can change multiple parameters on a single footswitch, it's not as easy as just twisting a pedal knob, as it could have a knock on effect for other parameters
Does WT or TJ have videos about finding your own signature sound or building building/dialing in tones? That’s what I’m looking for over new gear
No but thats a great video Idea!
Great video! I’m a big fan of both of your channels!
Question: Brian and Bradford, when do you think we will see the TM2 presets for the Z-Wreck?? 🙏🏼
The Z Wreck update is actually done. We will be sending it out soon 👍🏻
Thanks!
In my experience, like talent, people either have an ear or they don't. I think of the players I've heard with a $20k rig that sounds like hot trash, because they have no idea how to shape the tone, or the players who have a $500 rig that slays because they do. Some people just know instinctively, and a lot don't.
As far as modeling, the upside I see of having all of these great tones available for modelers is that it gives you access to a bunch of killer amps/pedals that you may have never been able to play otherwise.
The downside is that I believe more and more players will settle for becoming tone collectors rather than real tone chasers. It will become all about building a library of other people's work rather than pushing the envelope with their own. There's a definite value in collecting all of these great classic tones, but I still love chasing my own sound. That's one of the reasons I've gone back to pedals for my own playing.
The real hardcore tone chasers were the innovators that weren't satisfied with the sounds that everyone else got, or that their limited gear would produce, and they tried all kinds of crazy gear combinations, mods and builds, to create tones no one had discovered yet. That's where so many of those classic amp and pedal tones we now revere came from. I hope we don't lose that.
Yes absolutely. All day long "hey does anyone have delay presets for xyz". I constantly tell people to take some time and learn to program your effects so you can do this stuff on the fly as needed and not shell out $15-$30 everytime a new song comes out. A pickup will not make a bad tone good, if your tone is bad at the source Lambertones will not save it
Make a couple videos on how to dial in sounds with the most frequent questions
Great collab
I watch all of y’all’s podcasts.
It’s hard to say if presets are making people illiterate or just more avenues for people to ask questions. As an 80’s kid, we had no idea how EVH was getting sounds or how Edge was getting those delays sounds. If Guitar World or Guitar Player didn’t dive into it, hard to know. BUT, it made us search. I’d say presets are making people lazy, not illiterate maybe?
Hey worship tutorials! Could we please have a tutorial for cooking steaks? I’ve been wanting to learn and y’all mentioned it when talking about amp modelers. Maybe what steak to choose, how to get different colors, and a step by step guide? Thanks for all y’all do!❤
Brian here. I enjoy grilling a nice steak, and I always love how they turn out. But Bradford is the grill master when it comes to steak 👌🏻
Bradford? Please?😂
First 🤪
Maybe not creating, but for sure enabling tone illiteracy. I think the bigger issue is it tends to create stagnation within the P&W genre. Every guitarist sounds the same. Everyone plays to the same tracks, with the same guitar tone, and the same drum samples. Don't get me wrong, it is great to go from knowing nothing to sounding great in minutes. But tweaking knobs and finding the sound you like on your own is a knowledge building and character building exercise that is lost.
Kindof off topic, but I play in my schools worship band as the only lead electric guitar player. I currently use a Fender Mustang modeling amp, but I am looking to buy a multieffect unit to improve the quality of my tone, because the modeling amp is pretty limited. Is there an option under $500-$600 that you guys would recommend? Ive been watching your channel for years and really appreciate the effort you put into your videos.
If you can find a Helix LT used in that price range, that would be the best option in my opinion. Otherwise POD Go or HX Stomp are great. Same for Fractal FM3 (again, used).
@@worshiptutorials Thank you! I really appreciate the reply, I'll definitely look into those
😮
If i had a nickel for every time i uttered the phrase "why do you keep paying other people to twist the knobs on your pedals instead of just learning how to use them yourself"..
I don't think there's an issue with buying presets. When I was a kid I bought magazines with pictures of a favorite artists amp settings, or an instructional dvd, or tabs. Presets are a starting point and can unlock things you may have never thought to do or was even possible. I remember a guitar player showing me some Stevie Ray Vaughan licks in a parking lot and my mind was immediately blown. Never occurred to me to do what he was doing, and without that conversation I could have spent years going down the wrong path.
Worship songs can be pretty complex these days, and my mind is still being blown when I find out how someone did something. Presets, tutorials, BTS videos make the tone journey so much easier than it used to be. And if I can purchase a preset or get a BTS video of the guitar player breaking down what he was doing, I am 100% grabbing that and learning what makes it tick.
Yes.
Here’s what I think about modeling and presets. Was at a store the other day and played 3 different amps (Princeton, Deluxe and Gibson Falcon 20) and got beautiful tones with each in less than 10 seconds. Sounded fantastic! I then walked over to the modelers and plugged into the new Big Headrush. Sorry, the presets sucked - nothing sounded great. I tired to create my own but the time wasted is ridiculous and still doesn’t sound like the amps.
I don’t understand the logic of you modeling/profiling lovers - you claim the tones are close enough to the real amps that the audience can’t tell the difference yet you also claim you need all the different modeled amps because you place in a cover band. Really? Never ever have I had someone say “great cover but your tone isn’t quite like Van Halen”. Doesn’t happen. They don’t care. What matters way more is how you play, not the actual tone. Someone’s sound identity is in their fingers, more so than just the tone. John Corey’s presets mimic EJ tones but he doesn’t sound like EJ because he doesn’t have the same touch and inflections. Same with Jeff Beck, I can use his same rig or preset it and never sound like him. However, if I can play with his touch and inflections I can sound like him even with a totally different rig.
Come on everybody - get off the thought that a preset will make you sound like your hero - spend less time tweaking all the little crap settings of digital gear and just play. Understand how different players attack the strings, the weight they use, the bends and vibrato.
That’s where real tone and identity comes from.
I am tone illiterate.
CCM became a set of same sounding people who has no idea how it all works
Maybe. But we sell as many Marshall type presets as Vox ones. Those amps do not sound the same…
Im with Brian, in and out is 🗑
👏🏻👏🏻
I agree with your statement about the amps. I am 67 years old. I have played professionally on amplifiers I started in bars, played Colosseum and now I play out occasionally having had amplifiers of every kind you could think of it definitely gives me a edge on what amps are supposed to sound like. I use tone, junkie profiles and worship tutorial profiles when they are played with the band in a big stadium at loud volume. They sound amazing.if I used them in my studio They will sound different and I will eq them differently As with a real amp in your studio and then take it on stage sounds quite different that’s why I use the same presets and eq different patches for two different situations.