Pioneers Say This Wood Last 100 Years. Are They Right?
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YELLOW LOCUST IM WEST VIRGINIA BEST POST
In our neck of the woods (Kansas) the Osage Orange or Bodark tree is the preferred post wood. There are still fence posts holding up some fence that were put in in the 1890's. You'll never drive a nail into them and I've struck sparks off of a chain saw trying to cut into them.
Waves from the Pratt area
Yup, cut many osage posts and I use osage for my boiler, stuff is super dense, heavy and burns HOT. waves from Miami County!
I wondered if that’s what he was going to talk about when I saw the description. We have “hedge apples” in the southern counties in Iowa.
Wave from clay/plat area.
That’s what we called that in Southern Iowa Hedge.
Saw locust all the time up here in PA. I think its one of the most underrated woods, but it's an absolute nightmare to saw. It moves, twists and splits. It does better if you let rhe logs sit a year or two but then it's hard as a rock and makes a powder for dust and dulls bands faster then you can change them 😂.
Fun fact, Black Locust will glow under a black light. Locust trees are rot resistant, but prone to ants, who create pathways for rot, as well as damaging the wood themselves. Certain diseases are also prevalent nowadays in some populations. A forester told me years back that Black Locust started to develop blight like issues and they can be healthy in one county and diseased in the next.
We have a lot of Black Locust and Red Mulberry, but Orange Osage is rare for some reason, even though it grows pretty far north.
I think Orange Osage likes the South in general and the Midwest best.
These three trees, are the most rot resistant of all in North America.
I rebuilt a chicken coop thirty years old and re used the locust posts. It was a pain drivin a staple! Those posts are still standing 20 years later.
Nathan, my dad told me, when I was just a kid back in the sixties, you had to get all the bark off them to help preventing rot. We had a swinging bridge about 300 feet long. It was made with a lot of locust polesfor the uprights and stringers to nail the floor to.
We appreciate the hard work it takes to produce these videos.
@Nathan if memory serves me correctly on the time frame there was a blight that hit the Locust species in the 60s in North Carolina Tennessee and South West Virginia. One thing also to note. Was that black locust and honey locust were both used on tillage farm equipment to replace bearings you just had to keep grease on it when you were using the tillage disc. I was given a 3-point tillage disc from the fifties and the original owner had to replace the bearings a few years into use. He used Locust blocks that were honed out to fit the rod of the tillage disc and they were still used by me until I sold it 2 years ago.
We used Hedge apple, also called locust posts and also called Osage Orange. The hardest and longest lasting fence post there is. If she seasons out before you use it, good luck driving a staple.
In Northern Illinois, a lot of the old time farmers grew Osage Orange in their fence rows for fence posts. They call it hedge. It is a very tough wood. It lasts a long time. The Osage Indians used the wood to make bowls. It was highly prized for this use. Traditional bow makes still seek it out to this day.
Osage Orange was also used in making Recurve Bows for its elasticity…beautiful colors with the reddish /yellow color…
I actually have 3 "cookies" that my Farther In-law made for his Granddaughters Wedding about 6 years or so ago I wasn't aware of the significance of them or the history of them, they were used to set the flowers on the guests table and afterward they tried giving them all away I could only fit 3 in the car, and my best friend came over the other day and noticed them and liked them it made me feel good about having them. I am proud of them because my FIL worked hard preparing 26 or 28 of them in his shop. Thank You for teaching me a second thing in this video I am almost 60 and grew up on, around and worked on a farm and livestock so I know what Black Locus was for but never knew what I was touching or repairing so today is a good day. I am always wanting to learn that's why I watch your channel.
Osage orange was an additional favorite fencepost wood in southern Indiana. Sometimes if they were planted green they would sprout into trees, which is why you could see them growing along fencelines & along roads bordering fields.
It is also known as hedge and the trees grow "hegde apples" every year. Those are useful for preventing bugs in crawl spaces. The wood is so hard it can take some special techniques to work with but in KS there are some custom furniture hobbyist-makers who make wonderful pieces from it.
Another reason you will find osage orange trees in fence rows:
During the dust bowl of the 1930s, osage orange, because it is drought hardy, was planted by the government throughout the Midwest as windbreaks.
Sad to say, thousands of miles of these windbreaks have today been challenged by bulldozers.
The bulldozers won!!!
@@arlynsmith9196 I know bowmakers make great longbows out of osage orange if the tree is big enough
My paternal grandfather made his axe and hammer handles out of hedge apple. He used a draw knife and a piece of glass to shape the wood while it was still green. My double bit axe has a handle made by Grandpa Ernest in 1946 or 1947. His father made the previous handle before WW1.
Awesome story thanks for sharing for sure. I remember a guy in the tiny town of Rathbun Iowa making Hedge Hammer handles Shovel bd spade handles& selling them from his garage when I was a kid my pops would drop off hammers and broken spades and he’s replace them for $1.50-$3 each back in the early 1970’s. Pops said he couldn’t do near as nice a job as that guy did for the time & money he charged
In west Texas Bodark (Osage Orange) was used for fence posts, lasts many decades.
Nice
When I was growing up in Asheville, we had woods on 3 sides of our house, full of locust and tulip poplar trees… we called those thorny locust trees “tick” trees… because of those thorns, they must have been honey locusts…
We have a farm in West Virginia, all the old fence post are Honey Locust. They work great by use. Slow to rot and in an hour glass shape in the ground. This keeps them from pulling up. Old Honey locust cuts like petrified wood, our ground is shale so that might be why it last so long. Heavy minerals for the tree or maybe just so hard for water to penetrate down the fence post and it just stays dry.
Great channel!
Thank you, Nathan, for the history/ tutorial lesson on Black Locust - I didn't know the history behind the species. Looks like a lot of firewood in that trees future. Stay safe.
Absolutely he sure does a super nice job explaining things. I’ve learned so much from watching him over the years
Yes, you will see sparks when cutting black locust with a chainsaw. Chains dull more quickly than with other woods. The stuff is hard and dense, but makes great firewood. There are large patches of it in our area (SE Michigan). Once a few trees get started, they completely take over an area by sending up shoots from their roots. The shoots need to be mowed down constantly or there will be a bunch more locust trees in a few years. I’ve never tried milling it into boards but there are companies that are promoting it as an alternative to Epay decking due to it’s density and rot resistance. It often grows crooked, so good saw logs are hard to find in the wild, but they are out there. If you were closer, I’d bring you a few logs. Take care…
u2
Awesome video my brother! Up here in northern Wisconsin we have an old fence line about a hundred years old made out of cedar .The posts finally rotted out at the bottom so I pounded in some steel fence posts along side of them .I wanted to pay homage to the old farmers who put them in by keeping their hard work alive by doing so. They still have the original barbed wire on them which is so cool🙂
Large honey locust logs saw up into beautiful lumber. I had black locust posts in my garden fence (whole logs, not lumber), and they lasted 20-something years.
absolutely my favorite tree! would love to saw it sometime
Interesting video, up here in northestern New York Plattsburgh area. There's mostly white and red and sctoch pine grows well. Black locus spreads and grows healthy until it hits maturity. Our 100+ year old family homestead is surrounded with huge black locus trees. Most make great homes for the many birds as the big older ones are mostly hollow. Younger trees do yeild some nice lumber. My mother loved the firewood to burn in her kitchen wood stove to cook with.
HEDGE APPLE, Osage Orange, Horse Apple, Monkey Ball, Maclura Pomifera In northern Ohio we used Osage Orange, as others have mentioned, for fence posts and other posts.
used as a fence post would Indeed, if planted, would start to grow. Strange chore on the farm go trim the new growth on the posts.
Here in Iowa the farmers have used Hedge for fence posts for decades.
Thanks for sharing with us Nathan. Hope you can get ahold of some decent Locust to use for your project. It is a real pain to work with. Stay safe and keep up the good work around there. Fred.
Boone is more mountainous than where you are. This is from the Wikipedia article on Black Locust:
“In 1900, the value of Robinia pseudoacacia was reported to be practically destroyed in nearly all parts of the United States beyond the mountain forests which are its home by locust borers which riddle the trunk and branches. Were it not for these insects, it would be one of the most valuable timber trees that could be planted in the northern and middle states. Young trees grow quickly and vigorously for a number of years, but soon become stunted and diseased, and rarely live long enough to attain any commercial value.”
In Illinois, were I grew up, we used Black locust and osage orange for fence posts. I think the osage orange is better.
If you could find a large enough AND straight enough osage orange tree, it would make the best corner post for your woven wire fence or gate pivot. Cutting it and stapling had to be done while it was still green. My dad burned a piece of an old fence post in his fireplace, Burned so hot, he had it replace the cast iron grate.
Loved this video. Every log is not always perfect but even in its imperfection it was enjoyable.
Nathan...didja know that when exposed to UV light, the black locust wood appears fluorescent green!
I turned a few bowls from Black Locust and never have a problem locating it on the shelf.
50 years ago I helped my dad cut a grove of black locust trees and split them into fence posts. He's gone on now but I do believe a few of those posts are still standing. Here in northeast Mississippi locust and sassafras are native but neither grows to the size of a saw log, at least none I've ever seen. Cedar, or Juniper for the purists, are abundant and can grow quite large if allowed. Incidentally, that species was my dad's second favorite for fence posts because it is relatively easy to work and lasts fairly well.
Fantastic opening shot Nathan , I had to watch it twice before I realised how you’d got that shot - appreciated my friend and your creativity isn’t wasted on me 👍🏴
Appreciate it
Thanks Nathan for all of your hard work both in the saw mill or editing videos so we can watch ❣👍
Old F-4 Phantom 2 Shoe🇺🇸
Agreed 100%. F4 Phantom absolutely amazing aircraft with raw power like nothing else from that era in American aviation
@@texasjetman IT was amazing to fly
Shoe🇺🇸
For what it's worth:
Osage orange will last longer as a fence post than black locust.
If you are going to use it for posts, remember this.
Use osage orange for posts only when they are fresh cut (green).
If you wait until they are dry, the wood is so hard it's almost impossible to drive a staple into it.
I was going to suggest the osage orange. There are a lot of them in middle Tennessee
In SW Missouri Osage Orange is know as hedge. I have carved dried Hedge for a sculpture. It dulled every piece of powdered carving gear I had, but it produced a nice effect. You are correct that a staple cannot be driven into a dried post nor can a screw be driven into one without being proceeded by a pilot hole.
Osage orange and black locust are in the same family we don't have Osage orange here in western Idaho but we have lots of black locust great fence posts if you can drive a staple in .
@rickdespain5363 For what it's worth from an old-time forestry major.
Osage orange and black locust are not in the same family.
Osage orange - maclura pomifera, family - moraceae (mulberry family)
Black locust - robinia pseudoacacia, fabaceae (pea family)
Both used correctly make very long-lasting fence posts.
Thanks for clarifying that I was not familiar with that wood but lord yes Hedge we had that all over Southern Iowa Northern Missouri and yes you can’t drive a nail in without pre drilling for sure
Black locust is my favorite timber. The grain can be spectacular. Fluoresces too.
Excellent firewood. In Southern NY I'm surrounded by acres of dead or dying locust. I'm told that the poor soil conditions resulted in slow growth. Farmers planted the locust back in 1940 to 60s and they are still only 8 to 10 inches in diameter. Many standing with all of the bark dropped off.
Thanks for the education on black locust. It's a nice looking wood, and that bark is really something!
Well, we had some locust around our former residence in Southern Ohio. Some had the Honey Locust giant thorns and some very small. The small thorned were used for fence posts a lot. We burned the cut offs in our wood stove and it did put off a lot of heat...even green! I noticed a blue flame off some. I don't know why but there sure was a small blue flame and only on the black locust. Greg
We use Black Locust all the time up here in Ohio! I love sawing it! Beautiful wood with many uses!
Here in Ireland we use Oak Stakes and if there left to dry after you cut them you never get a nail or staple into them a lot of farmers predrill them first
Black locust must be similar to Bois d''arc, Osage orange, that we have in Texas, very dense yellow wood. The Indians used it to make long bows. Excellent bow wood.
Nathan, it may be a good time to look for about 3-5 acres near you to use and be able to expand operations. Adjacent would be wonderful but few neighbors like to sell.
Stay Tuned he will be announcing that exciting news real soon. He’s giving a sneak preview on Patreon pages
I remember reading a successful farming magazine from the 1940's on how to make an extra five hundred dollars a year selling black locust fence posts.
Interesting
Around here in Oklahoma we have bois d'arc, some people call the horse apple or Osage orange, they are very rot resistant. They are used for fence post. the old timers say for a line post cut them two ax handles long for corner post cut them three ax handles long. I know it seems like the longer they are in the ground the harder they get. They make some pretty lumber too.
Back then Osage Orange was also used as fence posts and railroad ties.
My parent had a lot of black locust on their property in east central Missouri. I loved them. They smell sweet in the Spring and the branches have an interesting habit in the winter.
They do make great fire wood. I read an article several years ago that you could have a constant supply of wood if you plant a lot of Black Locust. Cut every fourth or fifth one each year. They sprout from the stump and will be a decent size in four or five years to be cut again.
Good morning.
Morning
Your viewing angles are something else. Always something new.
It took me a few seconds, to figure out that opening shot. 😁✌🖖
You are living the dream my friend.
Thank you for sharing your journeys!
Growing up in central Kentucky, we always used black locus for posts ... When we would clear land we would often leave a thicket of locusts to use as posts ..
Awesome content, Nathan!
My grandpa talked about growing sweet gum trees specifically because they were prone to rot from the inside. He'd harvest 13-16 inch trees and use them for piping.
That’s very interesting. All I remember about my grandfather was he loved to whittle wood. Sheer cropper in Alabama then a house painter on his bicycle with baskets. Lord I barely remember that. I was 8 when he passed
Wooden underground pipes were used all over Albany NY from the start of development of that old city.
They have dug up old ones, that were still a lot like hollow buried logs, and they weren't totally rotted away, after several hundred years.
On our farm we keep a grove of locus trees as a continuous supply of fence posts, makes great firewood
That really awesome. I did not know this about black locust trees. I love that wood grain. Cool video. 👍❤️
In southern Mississippi we used yellow pine for fence post a d they last quite a few years. My great uncle has so e in the ground that aew are at least 65 years. Our local church and school was built in 1926 and is still being used. Stay safe and have fun !
Nathan, my paternal grandfather used black locust fence posts(which grows here in S. Indiana as well as honey locust) he treated with linseed oil as a waterproofing media.
Excellent video Nathan. I’m behind on my CZcams views. Some great comments too below. Learned a lot. Thank you for all those extra hours you put behind the scenes to bring us amazing content.
Still have black locust posts on our property that were installed by my great grandfather. The barbed wire had all rusted away. They won’t be around much longer but I do love to walk the property line and see the few that are still standing.
We have a lot of black locust around here and the old timers would always say, "Be sure to use black locust for your fenceposts because one post will outlast two holes."
Just up the road from you in Pound, VA my dad had a tractor shed made of black locust that his father cut and built back in the 1930's. It's still standing today.
iI grew up in Iowa and now live in souther missouri in both of these areas Hedge -Osage ornge are the go too for post
We had an old barn on our farm that was built out of cypress and after a hundred years that barn is still solid. You can tell this was definitely old growth wood because some of the boards were 16 to 20 inches wide.
We used to have some when I was growing up in Kentucky. Best I can remember, a fresh cut locust post had to be set upside down because they would sprout!
I like to turn it on the wood lathe. Makes for nice bowls and such. Has some nice chatoyancy.
Black locust grows everywhere here in eastern Monmouth County, NJ. The trees thrive here, too. Especially as yard trees. They get large and retain solid trunks.
Locust trees were used for support of center beams in basements of houses on eastern Long Island NY for years. The locust trees that I have cut with a chainsaw always produced sparks.
Locus was used for fence post for years here in WV for as long as I can remember. It’s lasts forever too.
I made the mistake of using honey locust a few years ago because I was one post short and didn't want to make a trip back to town for one post. After only about 5 years, it had rotted to pulp at the ground. They smell good when they're blooming, but aren't good for much else.
Except catching their thorns in your skin…..OUCH!
Similar to elm, would be mostly used for internal joinery/furniture.
Honey Locust is an interesting wood, but not for any rot resistance.
Great video!
here in Southern Ohio, I know that most of the Black Locust on my property is doing just what your saying about rot , the good parts of the tree are very hard to cut and you'l have to let them age sometime make to be able to cut for firewood.
Black locust has a lot of silica in it, at least in my area. It's hard on blades.
Locust posts are usually left in the round (4-8”) and bark on or off depending on season of harvest. A pioneer species on disturbed land, its best when younger. Older trees seem to be preferred habitat for carpenter ants. Great firewood, heard it called green coal. I sawed some 1x6 boards for bluebird boxes. Interesting color and grain and definitely under utilized. I saw tables in a coffee shop made by reclaimed woods from locust. Beautiful furniture and different. Considered a weed here in NW Indiana.
I built a small pergola over 25 years ago out of red oak 4x4 i salvaged.coverd all the post with roofing tar, they all roted off but one, turned out to be white oak. The white oak is still solid as a rock!!
William from Detroit, just wanted to say hi, and love your videos!!! I build stuff that doesn't require very long or wide boards, have seen a lot of boards that i could use for my projects in your burn pile from you and from Mark. No board is to small!!!!
For all the Osage orange comments TN has areas with it mostly central TN and it is extremely hard and rot resistant. I have a lot of black locust on my property and most of it is in good health. I harvested one for the lumber and it cut well while it was green but after I dried it, it would eat through some planer blades. Best to use a sander planer. It turned out some beautiful counter tops for my cabin.
I believe the condition of the wood has a lot to do with wind damage to the tree. I had perfect lumber in my log until about 30 feet up where a limb had been presumably ripped off by a fallen tree or wind…then there was rot in the trunk there. In the old days the pioneers worked with virgin forests and the trees were in better shape and tight grain.
Here in eastern Ohio there's still the locust posts that my grandfather put in for the fence back in the 1940's. Although many of the posts can be pushed back n forth cause the bottoms have rotted into cone shapes, some of the post's wood that's above ground can still have fence staples put in it. Back in the late 70's to early 80's he started putting the used motor oil on the posts which significantly helped preserve them for another 4o years.
Ironically, I live in the small-but-growing town of Locust, NC. (about 30 mi. East of Char.) and while there are Locust trees here, there are not as many as you would think, considering the town is called Locust. And I'm not sure they are Black Locust because they don't have the thorns on them like the ones I'm familiar with in mountain Maryland where I grew up .. and yes, Locust was the preferred wood for fencing up there. Thank you, Nathan, for the always informative, and great content, videos you provide for us. I totally understand it's not just as easy as "mount the Go-Pro, and that's a wrap" .. I've been subscribed to your channel for a couple years now, and I'm a CZcams Premium subscriber .. so again thank you for all your time and effort to provide us great informative content.
i like black locust for framing boats. It doesn't grow near where I live but I got a couple logs a dozen years ago from way down south near the border
When I bought my mill I did not realize how many black locust trees were on my lot.
I built our 12'x16' storage shed with enough to make a solar kiln and fire wood shed left. Many 4x4 posts 8-12' long with live edge siding.
Very hard but cuts well when green.
Please note black locust has thorns also and yes I have seen sparks when cutting. Very heavy wood.
When I was in Ecuador, I noticed that the farmers used live trees for fence poles. Our guide told us that it was a better option than buying manufactured posts. The reason was due to the weather. A store bought post would rot in less than a year. Don't remember what like of tree they used. But one that sticks out in my mind is the ironwood tree.
Gloves and carefully handling of these logs is a must. I saw the large thorns on this log. Yes they are pain full because of the poisonous sap & they are very sharp and tough. Locust logs are almost rot resistant. I have a pile I buried after cleaning a fence line.....30 years ago. A neighbor used his broom handle size limbs as fence posts (aka T posts) Many are still standing 50 years later.
I've had the thorns flatten a tractor tire before while bush hogging all the fluid in the back tire almost leaked out when I went back a couple days later so I went to have it repaired and they got 2 thorns out of the right rear tire!!
Black locust grows all over here in Italy.
Italians make honey from it which is delicious.
And fry up the flowers in batter.
I’m waiting for my wood mill so I can mill up some storm fallen ones for my bridge. Pine boards on it last about 5 years with tar (it’s over a waterfall) I figured black locust would probably be the best choice of boards.
In Ohio we see locust fence post.
We have an old corn crib on our farm that was built with white oak pre-1900 most likely betweeb 1892 and 1895. It still stands today. Heavily weathered, cracked, worn and never painted. Al that at it still functions. The old timers knew how to build.
On my farm there was a barn with a old log cabin it was built around that was used as a corn crib
thanks for the info!
No problem!
I have a 4x4 cypress post in my back yard that my grandfather installed before I was born. I am 72 years old. The top 6 inches has rotted but the remainder is as solid as the day it was cut. Also it cannot be wiggled in the ground.
they also use to use black locus for guard rail and here in WV they still split the for fence post
Interesting
Nathan I live way north west of you in Alberta Canada. Lot of small sawmills use cutoffs in a hot water boiler. Water is sent to kilns an to heat shops.lots of home made. Helps reduce cost great use of useless woods you dispose of.
Our fence line in the old pasture is chestnut
We had black locust fence posts on the farm in CT. It was hard to drive the fencing staples without bending it. Very hard.
If memory serves, black locust was the wood of choice for use as "props" used in the underground anthracite mines of northeastern Pennsylvania. The props held up the ceilings of the tunnels dug as the coal mines progressed into the mountains where the coal was. There are probably a lot of them still doing their job, as the mines haven't collapsed yet!
It is a pleasure to watch your youtube videos thank you
Ty
Interesting history today,thanks !
Our pleasure!
Black locust grows well here in PA but it's kinda rare. It's still used as fence posts and outdoor furniture like rockers and chairs
👍👍
We use yellow locust here in WV, it lasts for many years unless it’s sawed & sharpened.
I'm fairly certain that some luthiers are using indigenous black locust for fingerboards/fretboards. Since the usual tonewoods are getting in short supply and more than a bit pricey, some builders are looking to use more walnut and cherry for bodies, but neither are hard enough for fretboards. Here in the USA, both persimmon and locust we thought to be possible substitutes for fingerboards and bridges.
When I had my farm in the Piedmont area of Virginia I would cut a couple of cords of Black Locust in the spring. What I did not use for fence posts during the summer I would cut up for fire wood as when it dries some you are not going to get a staple into it.
I dig cookies. They make floors with them too, I’d love to do that.
I sunk a lot of Black locust posts in the 70's. We would treat the ends by soaking them in a barrel we had buried in the ground under a hoist and use them as corner, stretch or gate posts. Them posts are all still there and will be when I'm gone but our climate is pretty dry. Black Locust is not native here in sw Idaho but every old homestead has them, planted for fence posts I was told but I question that.
Black locust has a peculiar odor when it burns. Also, the flames a blue and the fire is really hot.
I'm just west of Boone and have a lot of locust around. It isn't doing well where I live. A lot is very old and just hanging on with a lot that have already fallen. It does last. I've got some posts in my fence that have been there forever and they are in great shape. Try and get a nail out of one of them or put one in. It is a HARD and heavy. My neighbor was milling a bunch of split rails from local locust.