Rio Tinto Autonomous Train
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2019
- Rio Tinto Iron Ore Trains have been running unmanned since around October 2018. There are many driverless trains around the world but except for these, they are suburban or metro trains like the Singapore MRT. Rio Tinto in Western Australia was the first company to run freighters (and very big ones - 2.3 kms long and 33,000 tons) unmanned. The trains are not driven by remote control, that is by someone watching a monitor from a camera on the front of the loco and driving the train as if he were in the cab, but rather by a computer program that is already in place. The train controller sets the route as he's always done, sends the 'start' command to the train, and then leaves it to run by itself with the program throttling up and down, applying and releasing the brakes, etc. according to the track profile and the signals the controller has set. Eg; If the controller wants the train to stop at a certain signal, he'll put that signal to red and the train will stop there by itself with no input from the controller. When he wants it to move again, he'll put the signal to green and the train will move off with no input from the controller. I say 'signals' but there are no track-side signals. The entire system has ATP and the signals are in the track. Before AutoHaul (or 'RoboTrain' as I call it) they were displayed on the driver's screen.
Here, I set one up to depart the Cape Lambert yard in December 2019. The whole procedure takes around 30 minutes and would bore you to tears so I start the video at the final four or five steps. I explain what I'm doing but when I leave the cab, the wind noise is quite loud although there was barely a breeze blowing, but the camera's mic makes it sound like a hurricane so I'll tell you what I'm saying here.
When I'm on the ground, I say "the only thing left to do now is throw this switch from 'disabled' to 'enabled' which allows the train controller to take control of the train". In the car, my call sign is ML25 and I ask for a PFM which is 'prepare for mission'. That's telling the controller that the train is fully set up, I'm clear of it, and he can send it on its way at his leisure (although it's almost always right away). Out of the car to film the departure, I say "the bells will ring, the horn will sound, and the train will move off by itself. I don't know where it's going (we have a dozen mines from 250 kms to 500 kms from here) but let's say it goes to the furthest one out, it'll go 500 kms empty, load itself, and come 500 kms back with no one in the cab".
Very cool and interesting stuff. The part that outlines the evolution from the locomotive going from engineer to fill driverless was really interesting.
Right slip was intended as I wanted to highlight this Lyndon slip 😂
Lock picking lawyer: click on 1, binding on two, good click on 3, 4’s good back to 2 click, now we have control of a locomotive
Lock picking? A pair of bolt cutters will do the job.
LPL would be in drivers seat drinking rum with no pants on with loco on rabbit setting in about five minutes
*you have access to the cabin, not control of the locomotive.
Just a matter of time...
Lol I was about to say hahahhaa
Boy I can hear the bean counters on the many railroad executive boards figuring how many crews they can eliminate with the many possibilities of this system .
And the first people they kill, it will be all over!!
Fry all the beans?
But when the shit hits the fan, they'll blame everyone But themselves.
I love that these American style engines are being used in Australia
Same here
Even down to the bell.
Wow this is awesome.. from 6:00 to 6:10 you can see the brake arms moving on the engine just before it starts moving off.
Thanks for the video, I lived and worked in the Pilbara and Kimberley for about 15 years, and yes, contracted to the "companies" and I totally understand (having read ALL of the comments" your feelings towards said companies. Good luck in retirement.
There is an impact sensor on the front of all locos. If an impact is detected, it doesn't stop the train but sends an alert to train control who then review the footage from the train's camera. He will then stop the train if necessary. The whole area is in pastoral country and it'll be more than likely a cow. We hit them like there's no tomorrow. There are also many level crossings but I've never heard of a car being hit although that doesn't mean it'll never happen.
@Valentin Bentley The part I showed you took 15 minutes. It takes much longer than that.
I rather just vote with cab control than RC cause it more fun and u get to see more than just sit in one spot waiting for it to come back
4:00 I take it this part of the video was a trade secret?
@@lordsamich755 Probably all of it. If you mean the details I didn't show, that is as I said, as boring as bat shit. If I showed the entire process from start to finish, you'd fall asleep halfway through it.
@@davidrayner9832
I meant the wind. :)
They first started these around 1994 in rio tinto, hoping to get hired to do this as a job, would love it
Informative video. Thanks.
Great video mate 👍
Thanks for the video mate. Hope retirement is treating you well.
Intriguing stuff. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the setup process from start to finish, but then I'm a glutton for railway technical matters.
Thanks for sharing.
Sorry, but I'm retired now.
@@davidrayner9832 No worries, good sir. Going by the comments I've read further down, it looks like you're probably better off in retirement than dealing with the company's antics.
Union Pacific, Amtrak, BNSF Railway and CSX, Norfolk Southern is getting self driving autonomous Train in USA
And in a derailment, I want to see the autonomous workers and equipment come fix that mess! LOL
Loved this video!
This is awesome and very fascinating for me. I live in Perth and one of these days I want to get up north to the Pilbara and take some photos and videos of these amazing trains.
This kind of stuff puts rail roaders out of work. We love our jobs but technology threatens crew sizes I'm all for it aiding us but not replacing us.
@@brandonmcginnis4610 it's a very isolated and remote part of the world. Each drivers costs well over 150-200k US$ a year by the time a year by the time you include holiday pay, sick pay, retirement plus flights, accommodation.
@@hoofie2002 The other consideration is crew change. You have to transport crews back and forth enormous distances to extremely remote locations, whereas AutoHaul just keeps going and going.
Employing people was affordable when workers didn't have as many rights. Now it's always a difficult decision between being made redundant and getting that extra sick pay. I agree we should employ more people, but it's becoming such a hassle that I can understand why no one wants to.
@@hoofie2002.... Of course, all those things & costs are FAR more important, than providing work for people to help provide for their families... Right?!!!? Perhaps, they can just replace Everyone in these companies, and just let computers & robotics run the whole show!!.... I wonder if the "top brass" of these companies would appreciate That!!
I love cape tower. The guy on the radio sounds hot AF
There were some girls on Tower who could easily have worked for the phone sex lines.
Very interesting and informative. I’m a volunteer engineer (driver) in the southeast part of Kentucky on a tourist railway. We run pre WW2 Alco S2s and post war EMD SW1200s. I enjoy my hobby immensely. I highly doubt you’ll see this in the US because we’re more populated than Australia. I’ve always wanted to come to the Land Down Under and railfan. I’m guessing your locomotive speedometers or set up in km/h instead of mph? We have dual speed gauges on our engines here: imperial and metric. I drive a tractor trailer for my actual job and my dashboard is set for US imperial units with metric below the imperial.
I thought an S2 would be a steam loco as I didn't know ALCo made diesels prior to WW2 until I just Googled a pic of one. I thought they were too busy building Big Boys and the like. We had 100 of the 44 class, essentially a PA and I cut my teeth on those back in the day. Yes, our locos have km/h speedos. As an aside, I imported a 1988 Ford Econoline (never sold in Australia) a few years ago and had to buy a used km/h speedo for it from Canada. If a vehicle is more than 30 years old, it can remain a lefty if it was made that way but it must have a km/h speedo. They think we can adapt to sitting on the wrong side but converting miles to kilometers in our head would be too hard. BTW, are you related to the singer, Jud Strunk who sang 'Daisy A Day'?
David Rayner I’m a distant relative to Jud. I have only heard his music and heard about him over the years. At one time, our little shortline possessed 4 Alco S2s of Denver & Rio Grande Western heritage. They were bought in 1963 and had multiple unit controls set up to be used on our coal hauling railway. When you get a chance, Google “Kentucky & Tennessee Railway” and you can see them in action.
I think it stinks no engineer running the train you dont get that friendly wave or horn
@@richharris9489 Very few people to wave at or blow the horn, it is Remote!
You make a good point. Im from Boston mass people everywhere
I left Rio in 2018 after 16 years took my long service leave and never went back when autohaul was coming on line, I was on attended trains ie driver sitting there while the train drove itself, the things it did would have you hauled into the office for a please explain if you were driving, run in run outs, when stopping it would be brake on brake off, power dynamic, power dynamic, at the bottom of hills where a driver would be normally in notch 8 the autohaul system would be starting to come out of dynamic brake and powering up losing at least 10kph in momentum meaning it would need to be in full power longer to get to the top using more fuel, we used to get chatted to for overriding the AESS by leaving the loco in notch 1, I believe that system has been disabled for autohaul so much for saving fuel and the environment.
Thanks a lot for making this video! Its a very interesting perspective into the operations of these trains. Too bad the concepts developed here arent applicable to other railways, as most will have to make sure not to cause human damage. What I wonder is how the train knows what actions to do when? Is the route programmed in advance and it knows to eg. accelerate at hills, brake when coming down or does it do something"smart"?
A combination of the track profile, its location on said track, the speed it's travelling at, etc. That's it in a nutshell and a more detailed explanation is well above my pay grade.
When all railways are automated and unmanned I believe your job will also be replaced by an AI. What for many is fantastic and futuristic leaves many people without work
Very interesting, thanks for posting. Are the dash9s equipped with the auto haul technology or only the es44DC/ACi locomotives?
It's fitted to every loco in the fleet.
Yes it is very interesting, watching more people loose their income.
@@roycefaggotter6860 it also employ many people.
Sickening technology!
Yes it is allowing more companies to put even more people out of work, so as to maximise profits.
No job losses in Rio Tinto as a result of this move.
It failed in the end due to a runaway train that ended up derailing around a bend
@@darylatkinson8802 nope still going. The runaway train wasn’t autonomous.
It's kinda lame
I just subscribed to your channel I got some Rio Tinto train videos
I had a bit of involvement with some of the management software for these in Perth. Rio , BHP, Fortescue are pouring money into mine automation so trucks, trains, drill rigs etc will be completely autonomous. All a mine will need is maintenance and supervisory staff. The labour cost savings are in the multiple billions of dollars but not so good for the locals who used to do it.
Rio's slogan is 'Mine of the future'. That means mine with no miners.
@@davidrayner9832 labour is the biggest cost they have and the most volatile. Hence the drive to eliminate it.
no more thousands of mining jobs propping up the economy
Great video. I always wondered how that worked.... It would be nice to see a cab ride and it on remote control.
The cab ride would look like any other, except there'd be no one there and the engine would rev up and shut off, and the brakes would apply and release without the handles moving. That's what we used to see when it was in the 'attended' phase of testing. We'd set it up in attended, call control to say it was ready to depart, and off it'd go with us in the cab monitoring everything. We'd have to press the alerter to prove we were awake so we could intervene if the program malfunctioned or looked like it was about to do something that could break the train. I should've videoed that but I never thought to do it. Actually, I worked there for 10 years and most of these were shot in the last few weeks.
Thank you for the video, very well done. do you think unmanned freight trains will happen in the US with the proximity to populated areas, crossings, and hazmat?
Rio Tinto is in the middle of nowhere but another thing that makes it possible is that all their trains are the same. Same length, same weight. Only one program needed to run the trains. Much more difficult for a company that runs lots of different trains, whether they're in a remote area or not.
@@davidrayner9832 i had never considered that the trains are all the same. it's very obvious now you mention it. same trains, same routes. thank you.
Probably not because there are so many types of American fright trains like you have locals, mainline, switching, yard transfer, unit trains, power moves, high and wide equipment and more
@@THE_IRON_HORSE Trains already can run themselves with the PTC integrated EMS. All the engineer has to do is start, stop and hit the alerter. The PTC will even blow the horn. Of course, not all locomotives are capable/equipped and it doesn't always work or it fails enroute. But either way, it takes the fun away and proves how little RR's value their employees.
@@michlo3393 PTC is positive train control that does not mean a locomotive can run it self. PTC is to ensure trains don't run red signals and if they do they will be stop 🤣 PTC does not blow the train horn 😉
It's totally insane.
It's like an AC44CW mixed with an SD70, pretty cool loco.
I think the windshields is called teardrop for GE locos. And i think it's actually ES44AC but with larger radiators to adapt them in their high temperature workplace like a desert
@@anf_8310_ab The lead two are Gevo's yes under the model ID of ES44DCi, they use the longer frame of the AC6000CW the bigger radiators that you find of the 6000. the easiest way to know what you are looking at 9000 series are ES44ACi (the AC traction motor version) 8000's ES44DCi (DC traction motors) and the much older 7000's just about the standard D9-44CW (C44-9W however you know it as).
Is it a little weird, that four guys were sitting in the car watching the train drive off by itself?
That is unbelievable technology, thanks for sharing!
LOL
This seems a lot more hassle than the ones on the Paris Métro (or even the DLR).
So this is the most important part *wind blows* (his mouth moving but nothing being heard)
4:39 the bell is running now.
Rio chilly tin has fallen from the top to the bottom 😂
macho man 😂
Does dispatch actually the train remotely, or does it start rolling after a timer ticks down once the autohaul switch has been flicked outside?
Does it use camera ,,,, to detect any potential obstacles like a crossing animal/human and slow down or break?
Tbh it's more better to do Cab control reason: u get to see sites and other rail road things along the line and trips plus u get to hear the nice horn more from on the locomotive than from RC and plus hearing the engine and liveing the dream than just doing it by a RC and etc
@Old Chunk of Coal oh never mind I'm mindless today due to me having to do drawings and crap
What's happens when it hits something dose it just keep going and what about crossing dose it honk and know there is a crossing?
The crew will notice it remotely thanks to the on-board camera
I'm sure I noticed that the bells on all the locomotives were ringing at 5:18. Why? or is this a graphics mod for Trainz lol.
It's to let everyone around know that the train is about to move. With no one on board to see if you're to close to the track, it's up to you to get out of the way.
@@davidrayner9832 I know that but what I meant was why did the bells on ALL of the locomotives ring instead of only the bell on the LEAD locomotive.
@@chandlerbranchrailfanprodu5928 Oh. Even with a driver on board, they always did that. I gather yours don't.
@@davidrayner9832 Well what I mean is that the bells on the trailing locomotives also rang.
I thought only the bell on the lead locomotive did because in America (where these engines were made) only the bell on the lead locomotive sounds.
Why did the bells on the trailing locomotives ring. Is the one on the lead locomotive not loud enough to warn people that the train is about to move?
@@chandlerbranchrailfanprodu5928 It's plenty loud enough but that's just the way it is.
Does it have a kangaroo detector
on a driverless train, what happens if the train breaks a coupler and splits? hits a car? broken rails? bridge down? theres no one onboard to fix it or render aid.
There are crews stationed every 80 - 100 kms along the track to deal with such things as they arise.
@@davidrayner9832 wow. didnt expect you to reply. thanks.
what should you recomend to new generations , join or not for train driver in future please sir .
Well obviously, there is no point in ever applying for a job at Rio Tinto but aside from that, if you love trains and want to drive them then by all means, become a train driver but be aware that it's an industry that never sleeps. You will be working at all hours of the day and night, on any day of the year. You will miss a lot of birthdays, kids' first day at school, etc. That said, driving a train is a really fun thing to do and while I was doing it, I enjoyed 99% of it.
@@enjoy77787 I had no idea where in the world you are but I see you mention Australian companies so in Australia, double stack trains run only from Parkes in NSW to Perth and Darwin. The reason is that west of Parkes, there are no road bridges over the railway lines.
There must be something influencing it when it slows to load??
Yes, the same thing as at all other times - the program that runs it.
This pisses me off knowing Australians just lost an opportunity in the rail sector to actually become a locomotive driver. Another example of jobs being replaced by computers, gone are the days when these trains were manned. Let's just hope some other companies don't do this with their trains. Secure employment
It is coming to Union Pacific Railroad, BNSF Railway and Amtrak of the autonomous self driving Train and there will be no more train crew at all on Union Pacific, BNSF and Amtrak Passenger Train in 2024.
This is very upsetting. Only a matter of time before the US.
Don't be too worried. The only things that allows this to happen are that Rio Tinto is its own entity. It owns the entire system, all the trains, and everything else. Also, every train is the same, 240 cars, empty 6,000 tons and loaded 33,000 tons so only one program is required to run a train. It operates in an area that is almost uninhabited (the Pilbara is to Australia what Siberia is to Russia). A general purpose railroad that operates lots of different types of trains in areas of population could never use this. You're safe. Also, the three other companies that mine iron ore in the area are in no hurry to buy the system from Rio or develop their own. Myself and everyone else went from driving some of the heaviest trains on Earth to doing what you see in this clip. That's like telling a chef he'll be peeling vegetables, or a mechanic that he's back to washing parts like they did when they were apprentices because robots will now be cooking the meals and building the engines. Very disheartening for us.
Really interesting description in your header. Funny how this video doesn’t seem to be on your channel, it just came on my feed.
I guess you left or retired because of Autohaul or just had enough? I’ve got a neighbour who is a main line FIFO BHP driver and although the money’s good, I think he’s getting tired of the BS, especially after that big accident.
@@gm16v149 I retired last December for a number of reasons. I'm 59 and I always said I'd retire at 58, I'm thoroughly sick of being away from home for two weeks at a time, and AutoHaul. I love driving trains and next to being a photographer for Penthouse, it was the best job ever but being put back in the yard and going out to fix broken AutoHaul trains is like a chef being reduced to peeling vegetables or a mechanic reduced to cleaning parts and changing oil for the rest of his life. We still get to drive the Robe trains but there are only six of them compared to 50-odd Hamersley trains. When you get close to retiring, you'll ask yourself questions like do I have enough money, will I get bored, will I miss the job, will I miss my workmates, etc. AutoHaul made the decision a lot easier to make.
Talk about automation eliminating jobs!
It will happen, it is called greed.
Tbh I don’t think I could ever trust a full on driverless train. I think monitored drive/self drive trains are the way to go. Let’s take Germany for example. You got LZB and AFB. Once the driver goes into an LZB zone with AFB on, the driver doesn’t have to do anything. Drivers then do manual driving with AFB on when not in LZB zones. You can’t fix a computer if something goes wrong. So having a driver in the cab if something was to go wrong is a last resort to save a train. Driverless trains lose that extra layer of protection.
Yes, and for a while as part of the development, we were riding in the cab with the computer driving the train with the switch in 'attended' which simply disables the motion sensor in the cab which allowed us to be there. This was to get our feedback on how it was performing. When it looked like it was going to do something that might cause a separation, we could intervene. Some did to save themselves the trouble of dealing with a separation and some didn't, preferring to cause the company as much grief as they could. In other words, if you're going to replace me with a robot, I can't stop you but I won't help you. Either way, in the case of a hot bearing or any other 'normal' event that required the driver to inspect the train, he was right there. Now, they're sitting in rooms which are spaced 90 minutes drive in a car apart so he's never more than 45 minutes from the train. That's fine, until it rains and the roads become impassable. Remember, we're in the tropics and when it rains, it really rains. I heard just yesterday that around a dozen more drivers that I knew personally have left over the last three months to go to one of the other companies so they can drive trains again. Sooner or later, Rio will be out of drivers and we will all laugh ourselves silly.
@@davidrayner9832 something I wonder is what if a train was to hit a vehicle? How would the train stop in this case?
@@CrazyDash9 The impact detector on the front of the loco would send an alarm to Train Control who would review the footage from the camera. I imagine this would take a few minutes. If they see it's a car that was hit, they'd stop the train. That said, the whole area is also cattle country and the tracks are unfenced. We hit cows like there's no tomorrow and 99.999999999% chance any impact will be with a cow. Bear in mind that the Pilbara is to Australia what Siberia is to Russia, almost uninhabited.
Computers go wrong? No way, they are using Windows 3.1
The AFB+LZB system is not a real autonomous driving like ETCS+ATO or like Rio Tinto's Autohall, first of all the AFB+LZB system makes many corrections and is not always the ideal driving for the vehicle, furthermore the use is not mandatory, a driver can drive the train manually and I have noticed that many do. The situation with ETCS+ATO is very different, you have the controls disabled, the only operations allowed are closing the doors and the start command, you cannot manage braking or acceleration, the levers are in the neutral position, you can at most activate the brake emergency, every movement of a lever, even by mistake, will cause the ATO system to be deactivated and to reactivate it you must stop completely and by regulation it is forbidden to drive the train manually where ETCS+ATO is present, only in the event of a systems failure you must drive the train manually, at low speed, until the MA is restored, some companies allow the use of manual driving 1 day a week at certain times to maintain a minimum level of competence, others strictly prohibit its use, in Milan the subways are with the ATO system, with the exception of one which is still manually driven, the others are autonomously driven with driver, the driver opens, closes and then presses start, if he just tries to drive for 5 minutes without justified reason he will be fined and suspended from service, if he does it again he will be fired, the only manually guided movements are exiting the shed, the control levers in fact in the last notches are very hard, because they are always immobile, a ridiculous case, it happened a few years ago it was with a slowdown not managed by the safety system, since it is forbidden to drive, no one knew how to deal with that slowdown because no one knew how to drive anymore, they had to call an instructor to guide a part of the route and then relay with other trains, after that episode they installed some simulators, but manual driving remains prohibited by law. ETCS+ATO They are installing it on the Stuttgart S-Bahn and many train drivers are asking for the transfer because they don't want to do a monkey's work
Sir it's a request to make a video that how this main locomotive works when there is no loco pilot.. I mean to say how the panel and switch board works automatically.. please make a video of it.. 🥺.. love from India 🇮🇳
Too late, I'm retired but it does what it needs to do without the controls moving. The engine will rev up but the throttle won't move, the brakes will apply but the brake handle won't move. It's just as if it's a trailing unit controlled by a leading unit.
@@davidrayner9832 thank you sir for explaining it so easily ❤️😇.. but if you get a chance in future please a make video of it❤️😇..
@@davidrayner9832 another thing sir you can explaining it elaborately "it's just a trailing unit controlled by leading unit" 🙂
@@ShaanBlog I meant if a train had 2 or more locos and you were riding in the cab of one of the trailing locos, it would do whatever the lead loco does without the controls moving. The locos on these trains now act like that. The trailing locos do whatever the lead loco does as they always have, but the lead loco now does whatever the program tells it to do.
@@davidrayner9832 thank you sir for explaining it so easily ❤️
Autonomous plane.
Ya wouldn't want a runaway train if so you'd have to contact Denzel Washington and Chris Pine
Have they removed/disabled the toilet in these?
I don't think they would as there is one road that will probably never be AutoHauled. Not only that, but they are driven around the yards and they are so big it'd take a while to get off and go to the office to crap and come all the way back. All the cab amenities like toilet, fridge, microwave, stereo, etc. will stay.
@bill hammond iii Music. Radio, CD player, USB. I used to load around 100 of my 3,000 songs on a USB every day.
@@davidrayner9832 In Italy the use of music on trains is strictly prohibited, many drivers do it anyway but the companies pay private investigators, anonymous passengers and of course the instructors to hide and open the cabin door suddenly and find them with their hands in the cookie jar, you are expected to be fired for this. A driver punched his instructor in the face who found him with music and threatened with dismissal, he suffered head injuries and a month in hospital, unfortunately the climate between workers and superiors is really bad.
Is the “main line” a dedicated Rio Tinto track?
Yes, they own the entire rail system plus all the mines and both sea ports and several towns that were built purely to service the mines and ports.
Their track. Come on they are not in the business of providing any infrastructure to Australia. Taxpayers also give them a rebate on every litre of Fuel they burn.
There is no rebate . They just don't pay the diesel fuel road tax which is supposed to be used to repair the roads damaged by trucks . Nor do fishermen , farmers , earthmovers etc. .@@beagle7622
Who put it in the crapper?
Who put what in the crapper?
David Rayner lol
So dose Rio just only have these GE units no SD70ACE or any type
Rio uses only GEs.
@@davidrayner9832 ok
@@davidrayner9832.... Between the EMD's and the GE's (or any others)... before you went to Rio T, which types did you prefer to run? Personally, I like the 2 cycle EMD's.
@@Romans--bo7br I'd never been on a GE before I went to Rio. In NSW, we had EMDs and ALCos and for my money, they were much of a muchness.
SO IF U HAVE TO HAVE TO DO ELNGHTY SETUP HOW IS THAT AUTONOMS JUST THE DRIVING PART IS THERE SHOULD BE FULLY AUTONOMOS
Does it have dcc sound?
No, but I can tell you that while locos in all other areas of Australia have mufflers these don't and they are LOUD. We once had a few CFs for yard work and they are basically the same as our regular locos but you couldn't hear them. To hear three of our locos working at full power is a motor head's wet dream.
@@davidrayner9832 Is there any reason why Rio tinto is still the only railroad of it's type? Is any other australian railroad adopting similar tech?
@@ocln2481 For a start, it's only possible because of where it's located and that every train is the same. Outside the Pilbara, operators travel through populated areas and run many different types pf trains. As for the other three companies in the Pilbara whose trains are all the same, they each say they have no plans to adopt such a system although I don't know why. I don't know if Rio has offered it for sale and if they have, I have no idea what the asking price would be. I can only say that it cost Rio many times what they thought it would to get it running and I'd assume they'd want to make a good chunk of that back. If they haven't offered it for sale, the other companies could develop their own as long as it's different enough so they didn't infringe on Rio's patent (I'm assuming they have one) but that would still be very expensive. I suppose it's like asking why electrification isn't more common in places like Australia and the Americas when everyone knows it's better. The reason is because it costs so much to do and would take many decades to recoup that investment. It'll take Rio many decades to recoup theirs but they are a company that, once they set their minds to something, they will not be deterred. In my opinion, it will lead to their downfall as the trains still need to be driven around the yard and so many drivers have left to work for other companies with the reason for doing so always being so they can drive trains, and no train driver would take a job with a company knowing they'll never get to do the fun part of the job - motoring across the countryside.
It's kinda wack you don't get to drive the train, that's the fun in it but still cool
Sure is i know its remote but it takes away from something
I agree driving the unit its self is better than remote like there's already small scale units existing with RC
David what happens about stray animals ie wildlife and cattle
They get mowed like grass. We hit cows and kangaroos like there's no tomorrow.
@@davidrayner9832 does the loco sound its horn automatically?
@@noelpurdey3494 Yes, before moving off and approaching crossings.
@@davidrayner9832 I believe the technology in providing autonomous operations is a huge leap forward, something that should be celebrated not despised. As you stated you cannot stop progress, more important to be involved and have input. When operating does anyone watch over its running, or is it left to the programming to run?
@@noelpurdey3494 Train Control simply sets the signals as they've always done and only checks the train if it stops at anything other than a red signal.
Soon to be in America
Union Pacific
I thought they didn't have bells in Australia
Only in the Pilbara as far as I know. I worked for the NSW Railways for 30 ears before I went to Rio Tinto and they don't have bells.
But they use locomotives that we use here in America and in America they have bells
@@nolantherailfan5048 If you mean the EMD F series of several Australian railways, they never had bells but some had cabs at both ends which yours didn't. Different strokes for different folks.
@@davidrayner9832 do the trains still run to this day
@@nolantherailfan5048 Yes, I have several friends who still work there and they tell me how it's going from time to time.
Very windy at around 4 minutes so couldn't hear you
That's why I wrote what I said in the description.
I have to ask, how many people did this system put out of work? If there were people effected were they offered other positions in the company or just laid off as a whole?
They didn't lay anyone off but many have left because they don't like what the job became. I can't give you numbers but I know from people who still work there that it's a lot. What they don't seem to get is that no career driver will ever go there if they won't be driving trains on the main line so there must come a day when enough people have left and no one has come along to replace them that they can't run the system. Automating jobs that are dangerous, tedious, repetitive and boring is OK I suppose but people actually like driving trains and whilst a few like myself have retired, the majority of those who left went to other companies so they could continue driving trains and told Rio that at their exit interview.
End of the Line good ending
I think you need a more secure system than just a padlock.
I'm retired now and couldn't care less what they use, if anything. The fact is that they took the greatest job in the world and fucked it. Most of us hope it shits itself in a big way.
@@davidrayner9832 Well said, nothing but greed.
@@davidrayner9832 Right there with you on that one. Liked the job-hated the politics.
I agree with you. Im a railfan from Massachusetts thankfully we still have 2 man crews
You've not been to the Pilbara!!
Your looking at your future Australia nobody at the wheel precious jobs gone for ever
" yadda yadda" yadda? Is this part of a Seinfeld episode?
Yes but it's so hot here that one never has to worry about shrinkage.
Greed greed greed . Disgusting
Must of felt great loosing your job, so Rio Tinto can make more profit.
@Danny Viking I don't think it works that way, there will be a massive loss of jobs regardless.
In another comment he expressed his frustration, “They took the greatest job in the world and fucked it. Most of us hope it shits itself in a big way,”
Of course there is, it is called profit, nothing else matters to big companies
My honest opinion on that: I think if you are a driver of those ore trains you would be bored to death in a few weeks, because it's always the same route day in and day out. Maybe they had problems with a high fluctuation of drivers; they didn't stay with the job long. So I think it's a good thing to leave such monotonic and boring jobs to a robot. If this was any other railway i would likely disagree using an automated system like this.
@@TheElectr0nicus mate, the job isn’t there to be fun it’s there to transport iron ore to where it needs to go. I don’t agree with automation tho, it just costs jobs.
A simple bolt cutter and you have ownership of the loco . . .
Yes, but you'd have to know that in advance. OK, everyone who's seen this knows but this is all in the most remote area you could imagine and even if you were keen enough to travel there, you'd have to follow a train and wait for it to stop. Once inside, the motion detector will send an alarm to Train Control and a crew will be on their way. If you touch any of the controls the brakes will apply to full service and if you really wanted to do some damage by say, releasing the brakes and jumping off, you'd have to know how to cut out AutoHaul and ATP and only we know how to do that. A disgruntled ex-employee who'd been unfairly dismissed and wanted to get even could do it, but no one else could.
Why not just drive the thing?
Everyone would love to still be doing that.
@@davidrayner9832.... Why do so many people call Operating or, Running a locomotive..... "driving" a locomotive these days?? It's an incorrect term (driving them).... you (meaning.. anyone) can't and don't "drive" a bulldozer, or a dragline or an earthmover, etc, etc... it's a piece of heavy equipment that is Operated... same with a locomotive, whether steam, diesel or electric.
It's only been in the last 8+ years or so, that I've noticed more & more people (on the internet)... and mostly by non-railroaders themselves, that this term of "driving" locomotives or "driving" trains, has become commonplace. I first noticed it by young railfans in Europe.... seems to have spread everywhere.
@@Romans--bo7br It's the term used in every English speaking country except the US and Canada and has been since the inception of railways.
@@davidrayner9832 True, we in Oz are train Drivers, we Drive trains, Engineers design them.
Ghost trains XD
why ? there will be a catastrophic accident one day ...that's a certainty when technology fails ..
If no one is around, so what? Actually, I hope it happens.
Good luck doing yourself out of a job. I don't use self check out at supermarkets to protect jobs. Gina and Twiggy would happy to employ no-one. Good luck when you are on Twiggy's Indue Card.
I've heard lots of people say they won't use self check outs and I understand the sentiment perfectly but had you taken that attitude back in the late '70s when self serve petrol stations came on the scene, you'd be a skeleton now sitting in your car having died of starvation 40 years ago waiting for someone to fill your tank. Before I was a train driver, I was a spray painter. When I started my apprenticeship in 1977, cars were still painted by humans in the factories but by the early '80s they'd been replaced by robots. To stand by my brother painters, should I have never bought a new car after that happened? There is no stopping progress.
@@davidrayner9832 but back then, self service stations fuel was discounted.
The engines are in a disgraceful condition compared with the days I worked at Paraburdoo no pride in the fleet these days
No one gives a flying fuck anymore.
@@davidrayner9832 Yes it really pissed me off if there to lazy to wash them and paint them I wonder how there maintenance is
@@rons4778 Well they can't even be bothered to pay drivers despite making money hand over fist, this company blew up a 46000 year old Aboriginal site to get the iron, says it all really.
@@retabera Yeah, what a cluster fuck that was. Cost the CEO his job and big coin to make peace with the aboriginal community and lots of bad pr.
Rio Tinto get to make more money.The Government gets to get there money . Just as well the Government gets their money so that they can pay the people when they loose their jobs.Funy I thought Australian iron ore was from Australian ground belonging to Australian for Australian people .Guess not
More union-driven development.
Yes, I'm sure it was the union that wanted us replaced by robots.
Not sure what you're "on"..... but it's really affecting your thought processes.
At the end of the day, it’s all about money. But thanks for the tour. I assume it’s remotely controlled. Stop and go that is. Good luck in your retirement enjoy life.
Thanks mate. I spend most of my days in the garage restoring motorcycles and building a hot rod. Much as I loved driving trains, I don't miss going to work one bit.
Better to employ a few drivers than muck about with all this tomfoolery! The mining companies make enough money! There I said it!
So windy u cant really hear anything what he is saying 🤣🤣😅
Read the description.
where is Jon Voight, Eric Roberts and Rebecca De Mornay when you need them.... ??!!
Like any of them would be of use.
@@davidrayner9832 To be fair Eric Roberts did have "two hands" and a cool hat.
Also, in the US most locomotives are equipped with a version of what you described as "Driver assist" and "Attended". It's not always available or it doesn't always work but the mere fact that it's here is writing on the wall. This used to be such a fun profession.
This is Down Under, not Alaska!
@@DominicMazoch I know, I am Australian, but they experience a "Runaway Train"...
this is rio tinto sd70ace
No, all Rio Tinto locos are GE.
and where is the emds
@@veniciocaldas1514 BHP uses those.
Congratulations to the "pencil pushers", "top brass" and everyone involved with All these railroads that have perfected the use of Autonomous trains.... and have succeeded in putting, yet even more people out of a job and now struggling to support their families. Brilliant!! Way to go!! Not!!! To be fair.... this also applies to Every company in the world, that have replaced real people, with autonomous anything, and/or.. robotics, etc,etc,etc!!
Get some new skills. Rio Tinto isn't responsible for people have train crew jobs.
@@mirzaahmed6589 "gEt sOmE nEw sKiLlS". Oh what, YOURE immune?
Automation has been taking jobs for hundreds of years, you just have to move on
This mostly replaced drivers that were retiring. And it created a few other jobs with slightly different skill sets. This was not actually as devastating as fear mongers want to believe. It wasn't devastating at all actually.
@@wishusknight3009 you underestimate the ruthless and unquenchable greed of American class 1 railroads.
Why don’t you just drive them yourself
Umm, because we've been told not to. Because there is no accommodation for us at the other end like there used to be. Lots of reasons.
@@davidrayner9832 My guess would be rio tinto is saving money by not paying for a driver
@@heathross511 it saves absolute shit loads of money by eliminating drivers or reducing their numbers. It's an extremely well paid job plus there is cost to house people, feed them, fly them in and out.
Hoping your autonomous trains work better than your audio
You missed out on one sentence. Give me your phone number, I'll call you and say it.
How many people and drivers lost their jobs because of this.?
As far as I know, no one. However, a lot of drivers have left and gone to other railways because they prefer to drive trains rather than sit in a room waiting for one to stop and then go out in a car to get it started. I retired in mid December 2019 after 40 years as a driver (only 10 at Rio). If it was going to happen, it happened at the right time in my career as I only had to work with it for one year but if I still had several years to go, I'd have looked for another job.
@@davidrayner9832 p
@@davidrayner9832 G'day Dave, another retired train driver from June 30, 2019 after 51 years (what!) and had been driving freights since mid '95 in Rockhampton, Queensland. Thanks for the insight on these auto trains as I was concerned on how many drivers were laid off. Natural attrition with retirements, transfers, etc, thins out the ranks but when I left, drivers were short here in Rocky and a few more have retired. The all night sitters knock you around especially on Driver Only and Auto Train Protect is a tech aid for us. (saved my arse a few times!) Pay wasn't bad and there when are times when I didn't mind the job, people taking pics and kiddies waving, made it worth while. At 50 years, got my gold watch, a real clockwork one, not Chinese! certificate, thanks from everyone, boss's shouted my wife and I and many others a slap up feed and a barby with work mates so I retired on my terms. Used up my sick leave, (health issues and a good Doc!) annual leave and a good Long Service payout.
Auto trains won't work here, too hilly, rough terrain, towns and people would be a nightmare. And railways need drivers to blame!
Anything by big companies to screw a human out of a job in the name of profit. Sounds like a real crappy company to me.
I'd worked there for nine years when this happened although we knew it was coming long before it came. In those nine years, Rio was good to me and I really loved working there but they took what was the greatest job in the world and ruined it. I have nothing but disdain for them now.
@@davidrayner9832 All big companies are like that anymore. Anything to save a penny so the CEO and upper level muckety mucks can take their tens of million dollars salaries and pay the little people who actually do the work peanuts. NO CEO should make 250-500 times more than the lowest paid employee. Sadly greed always seems to prevail over morality.
@@RR98guy.... Very Well said!!
We need this in America.
It’ll never happen in the US because it’s to dangerous. Out here there is literally nothing… no people, cities, housing communities ect. And they only haul iron Ore, and when they haul it the loads never change. In the US they mix Hazmat with just about everything and all the trains in the US usually drive near civilians at any given time. Plus you have to add in the millions of train crossings that nobody in the US knows how to navigate or pass with all the brain cells they got. Which is why we have lots of crossing accidents and “many many” Train derailments across the US. Just like in East Palestine Ohio with the fully loaded Hazmat train. There is no way the US government will let these train companies put automated trains hauling thousands of Tons of Fuels and Hazardous chemicals near people whatsoever. So that’s really the saving grace of this never happening in the US. Western Australia is really just the perfect mix for this system even though I hate it and despise it tremendously.
??? Why
@@NoVaRedacted particularly for the BNSF Mojave sub, it would look cool
@@michaelwalterselevatorsrob5009 you know how dangerous that is? These programs only work on flat land. Plus you’ll replace all those jobs
we need to have this here in the states.
Why?
Absolutely not.
@@davidrayner9832 because our railroads here in the states are shit. and its time to get rid of engineers.
@@nikerailfanningttm9046 Is it the engineers that make them shit? If so, how do they do that and if not, why get rid of them?
@@nikerailfanningttm9046 our railroads in the US aren’t sht because of Engineers… it’s because the Railroads spent as little money as possible to keep the tracks and area surrounding them safe and up to date. So all the sht in the US is old and worn out thanks to them… and to top it all off they over work schedules for consumers too. So even more trains are running at longer distances because they want money in there pockets. There is literally no way on Gods Green Earth that this type of system will be allowed in the US.
Well on these driverless trains they need to have a driver because all machines can malfunction and each time you use the computer there's a chance that it may malfunction and a driver would make autonomous trains more safer because if the computer malfunctions he can take over and it will all be a okay
Dangerous. Gee must be slim profit margins if they have to take thongs to this extent. If everyone stood together and refused to set these things up for this company people would still be employed. Trains drive themselves but it takes two people to drive the Ute to get to them lol
Not slim profit margins. Rio makes money hand over fist. They did it for corporate greed, as in hand over fist is not enough so let's make more, and to see if they could. It always took two people to get to the train. The driver, and someone to take him to the train and then bring the ute back.
What a waste of technology. Go wild. Hire an engineer.
these GEs aleeady has a camera anyway
Sadly the camera man never understood the concept of covering their microphone with a fuzzy wind protection covering called a dead cat.
I undstand that concept very well, I just didn't have one with me on the day. At least I took the trouble to write what I said in the descrpiption. I wonder if you're smart enough to read it. Probably not.
Sadly Phillip never understood the concept of thinking before commenting. Also showing appreciation for David taking time out of his day to show us something we wouldn’t get to see otherwise. Driverless trains should be the least of peoples concerns when we have a generation that constantly criticises and nitpicks when they don’t have a clue what they are talking about! Can’t believe you didn’t have a windscreen, a tripod, studio lighting and a director at work?! Pull your head in Phillip!
One more home with no bread on the table through automation.