WHY YOU CANT UPGRADE YOUR ENTRY LEVEL ROAD BIKE!!! (CARBON, or ALUMINUM) *WASTE OF MONEY?*
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2021
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Unless you’re doing competitive cycling, it really doesn’t matter too much if you have 9 speed or 11 speed, or if your 11 speed is 105 or Ultegra. Road cycling has become too much of a premium sports due to the many marketing ploys the bike industry dished out in recent years...
The problem is when you need to replace components as they wear our. Are you going to spend money buying 9 speed components? You're limited to low tier maintenance parts that get phased out and become scarce rather than having a slow and comfortable upgrade to upper tier parts. People say the best upgrade you can make is to upgrade your wheelset. But you are forced to buy a 9 speed wheelset. See the problem?
@@MichaelMa far from truth... low tier components are far cheaper than hight tier ( close to half the price). Also, cheap components could last longer than high tier ones, because ultegra or dura ace are designed toward best performance not everyday riders. The best investment is to train harder, work on the position in the bike and practice skills like bunny hopping or riding hands-free. In the meantime people could safe some money and wait until this cycling madness stops
some poepl like to upgrade things for pure looks and feel not to gain speed or something from it.....
@@GCPerformance18 so what youre saying is theyre upgrading because they are vain
I upgraded my 105 5700 10spd to Ultegra R8000 11spd last summer because I was bored and wanted a project. I did it to learn more about my bike. It brought new life to the bike. The shifting was significantly better. Did it make me faster? No. It did however, make the bike feel “right”.
I get it, you are making some good points about the feasibility of upgrading a cheaper bike vs. paying more for a better bike. But to say you can't upgrade an entry-level bike--or to say upgrading a cheaper bike is not worth it--is like saying you can't do anything to your bike or motorcycle or car in your garage. And that's the whole history of our experience with bicycles, doing stuff that makes them better as we have the time and interest and money. Or deciding, hmm, this thing is too far gone, better to buy new and start over again.
Literally my thinking, I was gifted an awesome road bike from my dad. Already is a great bike, awesome tires and rims. Shinano gears, just want to make minor improvements for speed and comfortability.
Everyones idea of "decent" is obviously some snobby, rapha clad, "dont talk to me I'm a roadie", carbon snobbery thanks to sigma sports, GCN, and cyclingradar. Everyone seems to think you need to have the most expensive parts to go fast. Listen. An 11-28 cog 50/34 gearing combo will give you the EXACT same speed range between any groupset. You can have 7 speed tourney or 11-12 speeds and have the same top speed. Its about watts not how many gears you have. ALL that is good for is of you are really doing a multi hour evwny where you need to make sure you keep your cadence and ftp in check to not blow up. But no one making CZcams comments looking at these bikes is going to go pro and need to ever be mindful of these things anyways you can pretend to be pro all you want but chances are if you can afford to buy a bike you're 20 years too old to even consider competing let alone being pro. Being a snob doesn't make you faster or better at biking. I entered a triathlon last year with a 3x8 sora shit box bike that cost me maybe $500 to get running with better wheels cockpit and guess what I passed a ton of snobby fat old pricks on full blown tri and tt bikes like cervelos and shivs. Because I actually RIDE my fucking bike, and train to get stronger I don't pay and pay into bulk shit trick myself into thinking money makes me faster.
I somewhat agree to that, but there definetly is a big gain to but a specific bike. You will Get a lot faster with a decent position om a tt bike in comparison to a standard road bike. Same with sprinting. A cheap alu frame gives in and isn’t stiff enough to hold back sprinting over 1000 watts so that would make your top speed higherz.
I agree that 100 percent all day,...... but also people just like to upgrade there bikes because of look or it makes them feel better in a certain way...... like me with my truck I literally plasti dipped all my emblems on there to black it out because i thought it looked cool and made me feel better knowing it would do nothing to my truck to make it faster or save me money..... I literally spent money and time to make it look cool to make me happy, some people have that same enjoyment on there bikes.... there doesnt always need to be a reason or ryhme to it. Sometimes we just do it just because :) but thanks for watching
@@jakomeister8159 Don't get me totally wrong I do enjoy working on my bikes and changing stuff up both for fit and some looks. I've got a tiagra equipped domane which would of been more than enough for me to enter some events up until well.... we all know what happened to events. And for my winter/training bike I made up a bike from an old 2004 norco roadie, changed EVERY THING but the actual frame to be a 1x10 climber with 40t up front 11-36 rear on an old ultegra groupset with some wolf tooth bits to get that gearing. It was super fun to work on and I'm proud I was able to get it all done at home. But there's what you mean of upgrading because you want a new look or feel based on some kind of knowledge or experience (like my specific want for easier gearing to get up steep climbs near me) and there's upgrading because everyone around you makes you feel like you NEED upgrades and the highest tech to even keep up before you've even pedaled before, rather than that you WANT to upgrade.
Also sorry if it seems I'm mad at the channel poster. I'm not your advice was sound that it's inadvisable buying a brand new bike you already want to upgrade and switch out. Just more speaking on why that constant need seems like such an issue to new riders and this constant fear that whatever they buy won't be enough thanks to peer pressure and marketing.
@@bingobango6412 and on that part of your comment is the think i agree on, you dob’t have to have the best equipment to win but it helps. If you already have a great bike then no need to replace it unless you have $12000 lying around in your sofa
Sell like you're selling to a friend and you will have a returning customer for the rest of your sales career.
I agree with this statement 100 percent, I hate that feeling myself asnd you dont want to sell someone something you want to move because then you will always have to deal with them in the future
... because they will hunt you down and stomp your pets out.
Give this man a trophy
He's making this video in one go and posts everyday.
thank you so much!!!! I enjoy making these videos, not onlyt is it fun but also it helps with my real world job too :)
almost everything he said was bullshit. does it make sense to buy an entry level bike and immediately upgrade? no. but ride it for a year then upgrade? sure. used components. sure. and then saying stuff like “you have to stick to a 9 speed trans with this bike” - lies. this guy is a bad resource and i hope his shop shuts down
@@beyoncehadoneofthebestHey man that's a bit strong to wish his business to fail. He is entitled to his opinion. It may be wrong, but he is giving good advice. It doesn't make much sense to upgrade a entry level bike. Because it would cost you more than an equivalent next up the ladder bike. If you want a bike with a 105 group set why not just save up for it. Rather than settle for an entry level bike. Most people who come into the market for a low entry bike just want to try out the hobby, and if they don't like the new Hobby, then they haven't spent to much money and they can sell that nearly new bike on ebay or Craig's list.
I just find it wild that we’re at the point where we have carbon bikes at a price point where they don’t get at least 105
PLEASE ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AND i WIL DO MY BEST TO HELP!!!
As a stuednt, I can't splurge and a buy a great bike from the start. And I agree upgrading an entry level bike takes a lot of money, but I upgrade my entry level bike slowly. If you have money to splurge go ahead its worth it. Right now my Allez E5 has 105 components. Vision team 35 wheelsets and pro vibe finishing kits. The way i've built my bike it feels really personal and I personally love watching my bike "grow". So I wouldn't completely say it's a waste of money. I personally love upgrading bit by bit then just splurging at once and not feel any difference. Thank you GC for this video!!
I agreed with that too I say if your the enthusiast and thats what you like to do then there is nothing wrong with that.... I havbe those custoimier who enjoy that experience but majority are people who just full send and catch the bug quick
An idea that will massively help you out is to start saving up a fund and splurge it on a new bike that you aim to buy. This is what I did and it feels like now I have a bike that I'll be content with for years to come. It might seem slow and difficult and I know that upgrading is fun but you will spend much more money in the long run. Good that you are learning mechanical skills from it though!
I actually disagree with the video. I bought a second hand 2018 Allez and upgraded its components to Ultegra R800 with a Superteam carbon wheelset. So far so good. Seeing it grow is really fulfilling. Still, thanks for the insight.
I recently upgraded from Sora to 105 for my GT road bike. I purchased the groupset for a great price and have enjoyed completely stripping the bike and rebuilding it myself without relying on anyone else to do so. Hopefully one day I can purchase a better frameset to take it further still. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I regularly see deals for full 105 groupsets for 460€ which is half the regular price. But you need to be lucky and have it with the right specs.
Now I agree that it's not a good idea to get a bike thinking you will upgrade it later, but if the bike is a bit old, and need to change like cassette chains and front gears anyway, it doesn't really feel like a waste if you like the bike.
Exactly. I think that’s what’s it’s about. Having fun! I love working on my own bike and building it up. It’s part of the hobby if you ask me
Ive always recommended to spend the money on components vs frame....for a first bike stay away from carbon frames, get AL and spend the money saved in better groupset/wheelset. Again this is especially true for a beginner rider getting in to the sport (chances of falling/dinging the frame are higher, why ruin an expensive carbon frame). Just my 2cents. Good video and advice ultimately.
What stay away from carbon?
@@Leo-gt1bx expensive and fragile, you can get a caad12 or so that is light, more resistant than carbon and is much cheaper.
I went with steel
Agree, from an economic point of view. There's the added cost of paying for labor to upgrade if you don't do it yourself. On the other hand, I've enjoyed learning from upgrading my entry level bike and speccing it with new parts and wheels even though it wasn't cost-efficient.
Sure you got to have a project, and you learned interesting things that satisfied you, and you did it all on your own timeline, but how does a bicycle salesman benefit from any of this?
So insensitive to the needs of bicycle salesmen. Tut tut.
Info and customer service like this is exactly why you should support your local shop. I spent a little more up front on a tarmac sl6 sport from my local shop because they gave me the same info that it would be easier to upgrade a little at a time. 18 months later I’ve upgraded everything on it to either dura ace or sworks along with roval rapide wheels. I now have basically have an sworks tarmac, except for the frame, at a fraction of the total cost. And the entire bike only weighs about 250 grams more than a brand new sworks tarmac. 🤙
Nice build!!! and thank you for the nice words!!! but yes all I do is try to help becvause in the end a happy rider who I was honest with, will be more happy about the sport then a bummed out rider who feels like I pushed them on a bike because I knew they could afford that day and then they arnt excited about what thye have anymore
@@GCPerformance18 your title says otherwise tho
What this proves is that the "entry" level bikes are overpriced for what they are. I don't know if this is what you were going for but this is exactly what this video is saying.
$2000 for a bike with tiagra is freaking crazy...
Specialized in particular has really cleverly manipulated the market so that mid range bikes are relatively more appealing for newbies and exotic bikes are more appealing for those with the cash to burn. Just because a price seems cheap relatively doesn't mean it is. It can't just be down to inflation either.
Or thinking about it, as this guy has pointed out, those who are less inclined/ can't pay for the mid-range options buy the cheapest option, only for it to become obsolete after a year of decent riding when they'll go and buy the mid range anyway. It seems like it's a exponential price/ performance curve.
SO helpful - thank you
Even "Entry" level bikes have different levels of quality control/tech/brand identity. However, all entry level bikes are way cheaper than your mid to high end tier bikes. (and don't compare prices from 10-30 years ago please) Also, are these entry level bikes overpriced? Maybe some but some are definitely, fair, however, subjective. Not everyone who buys a bike is looking to upgrade. They just want a reliable bike to ride. It's like not everyone buys a car to upgrade the engine/transmission etc. That doesn't mean it's not worth it. All bikes, if taken care of will run like they did when first bought. Just because it doesn't have the latest tech doesn't mean the bike isn't worth it. After all, entry level bikes are STILL way cheaper than mid-high end bikes.
This video is just informing the consumer that if he/she wants to start low and gradually build up than maybe this isn't the best option for them. This is just giving more insightful knowledge to potential consumers. So, no just because a bike isn't upgradable doesn't mean the bike isn't worth the asking price because it's still got the current low end components. Cheers.
The thing is you don’t assume people have all the budget. Four years ago, as a student, I bought a Specialized Allez Sport with my own savings. That was all I had. And I was desperately needing a bike to have fun, since I moved to a new place with my road cycling background. Over the years, I did all the upgrades myself, switched to 105 r7000, got myself a pair of campy Zonda C17, swapped to pro vibe aero cockpit, and I somehow got a sw tarmac sl6 fork, and I made a custom made crown race spacer to fit that onto my Allez. I learned everything during the process, and I was having fun all the time.
Sure, now I became richer, and I just bought an $8000 bike. And now you could say, you know, just drop a few extra hundreds, to get something better right away, I might have the ability to do that. But that was completely different than 4 years ago.
I say, all-in is probably the best way to save the most money in a long term, if you got all the knowledge you need. But upgrading had always been a process of learning and having fun at any level. It’s nothing shameful.
of course I agree with that, and i think I even mention that in the video, the starter bikes are not bad bikes at all, and if your budget only allows you to upgrade piece by piece or to upgrade a group other then a new bike from the get go, then that is what is needed to be done. it was more of a recommendation instead of what everyone needs to do, but in the long run it would make more sense to spend the money now if you have it on something a little nicer
Upgrading years down the line with used parts is where the upgrade potential is at! Who wants a 10 speed rim brake Zipp 808 set? Me!
Best option is to keep the entry level bike and ride it. 11 speed is not going to make you faster than 10 speed or 9 speed. Other things, like the weight of the bike, or the wheels or the aero might but the number of gears does not. The aluminium specialised entry bike with sora seems like a fine bike to me. You can ride it for e long time and be perfectly happy with it.
Shimano tech from the top lines drips down to the cheaper groups every time the group sets are updated.
Fact is, a Sora groupset nowadays is just very good. Maybe a bit heavier and less shiny than its more expensive brothers, but it works very well, shifts like butter indeed, will last a long time and is very good value for your money.
Problem with upgrading your bike is that there is no upper limit. It is never enought. Whatever you buy, whatever you spend, there is always something better, lighter or faster. The bike indsustry thrives on this.
Let that go and be happy riding your bike. Rack up the miles, get fit, ride with friends, go bikepacking, take your bike in your car or on a plane and explore new places on your bike.
agree
i totally agree. I upgraded my bike over time. This is fun. And i would be bored if i buy a bike and keep it the same for years. i bought new tires(GP5000). New Wheelset. Light Saddle. Lighter Bars. At the End i wanted a new Frame. The benefit was that i took all my upgraded parts and moved them to the new frame.
This is what I needed to hear. Thanks for putting my mind at peace!
👍 Perfectly true!
Over last 10 years bike companies took care for people not to upgrade. I bought mine in 2010. It was initially in full, Shimano Tiagra 9 speed spec, but I could easily upgrade to 9 speed Ultegra. What I did over years - wheels, bottom bracket, chains, cassettes (use few), or brake pads (still rim-based but hey its DuraAce) and they are fine. I enjoy not just the bike itself but the ride. I just pray that one day I won't have to hang it on the wall as a monument of great times.
Over 2012-2014 big changes happened and when new Tiagra hit the market in 10 speeds (as is today), 105 and higher groups went to 11 and 12 +Di2 their prices skyrocketed and what's most sad, upgrading became if not "impossible" then unprofitable. For example - I can't upgrade today because of disc brakes. My frame simply isn't ready for them! 2nd part of the story is that modern brake systems are hydraulic and entire cable routing goes within the frame. So? Front can be solved - new fork, new wheel (needs a different hub), new stem and new handlebar! But the rear gives a head ache...
As for more gears, wheels can be left as they are only if one finds a freehub designed for 11/12 speed cassettes that fits.
If one likes digging in PDF specs of components and spend some time in garage, yes the upgrade can be done, but in general - drop it! Enjoy the ride!!! 😄😄😄
@@madyogi6164 bike frames get obsolete sooner or later, it's just a matter of time. My father's 40+ years old Orbea can't use modern wheels so upgrading it it's impossible...
...But there's always a way. For example, my bike's frame is also from 2010 so it can't get disk brakes, UNLESS I buy a disk brake adaptor, which exist. Many small companies built components and adaptors for old bikes, however sometimes it's more expensive to keep an old bike running than buying a new one.
Exactly what I did. Bought a Giant contend 3 with Claris. Decided I like the sport months down the line, and bought a CAAD 13 with 105/Ultegra. Definitely better to buy a new bike than upgrading an entry level groupset.
When I get my first road bike, I’ll probably make very small upgrades to it very slowly, like better brake pads, different tires, a different saddle and maybe a cassette with a bigger low gear to get up those hills easier. Some small upgrades are definitely worth it! However I do agree with the video that buying a whole new groupset is not really a great idea for some people.
yea for sure
Sometime upgrading as a test of the water as one progresses is still worth it as one experiences differences thru it’s upgrade stages in his cycling journey. We don’t know where the journey takes us so fiddling and upgrading in itself is a journey of satisfaction of maybe doing something to the bike you love. All comes to the matter of choices in life, worth it or not it’s an individual thing. You have a point about the “make sense $” agreed. Good video and well presented thanks bro. 💕
"this bike won't be why you get dropped at all... it will be your fitness." lol real talk, love it.
hahahha Thanks so much I am glad someone appreciates it!!
“It’s really hard for me to be honest with people... when I’m a salesman here”
Lol
lmao its the truth I be honest with them but they always think I am being sleezy sales guy
I guess that's why he's not being honest on what the minimum it would take to upgrade that Scott to 11-speed 105 or Ultegra.
I enjoyed this video and your honesty. I entered this sport with little to no knowledge. I started off with an aluminum bike and a few years later, I worked myself up to a carbon bike. The only upgrades I ever did were wheels sets, and I made it a point to never purchase wheels that were more expensive than my bike. You offered the best advice...upgrade the bike not the components.
Thank you so much and thanks for watching and supporting me I hope to make more videos you like in the fuiture
Right on point Boss, since My first proper road race bike I got it with Ultegra and will not go down one level, but today’s 105, SRAM or Campy entry training/race stuff is light years from 8-10 speeds.
My first bike bought in May 2020 was a Caad12. Great bike. 105 groupset. I did about 2000k miles in 7 months and fell in love with the sport. The only upgrade I made was to lower level carbon wheels (roval c38) and tubeless tires. I recently bought a beautiful sl7 expert and put my Rovals on that bike. I feel I now have the bike that will meet my needs with no further upgrades necessary and make all my upcoming miles even more enjoyable.
you did 2 million miles in 7 months? ;)
but yeah, there are cat 1 racers on CAAD12s, people seriously overestimate the equipment they need to perform.
Haha. Maybe 1.75 million 😂🤷♂️
Yeah I getcha. Mid range componentry seems good enough that the massive leap for the minimal reward of the top tier stuff is ridiculous. I'd much rather have Ultegra than pay double for Dura-Ace with a few grams saved and a flashier logo, especially when it comes to replacing parts too if worn/crashed.
You can buy the upgrades one at a time no matter what you are coming from or to. The issue is you can't install untill you have the full set. Doing it that way may be a bit more expensive, but much easier to budget. I just upgraded my 15 year old Cannondale from 3x9 Tiagra, Rolf Prima Vigors, and a Cerakote paint job. Yes, I could have bought a great bike for that price tag, but I built
what I have.
For some, myself included, 'upgrading' or tinkering/experimenting/etc can be something of a hobby (maybe more than 'serious' riding :P ). Much like a person that buys a brand new hyper-car and tweaks things on that platform (tires, exhaust, blah). I dont have the resources to tinker with a super-car, so bicycles are an easy outlet for my wrenching needs. You can get deals for groupsets on the various reseller marketplaces as well as local sales. Beware the salesman that says 'it cant be done', sure it can! Where theres a will, theres a way. Of course that isnt always cheap and like the presenter in this video says - it can cost more than buying a mid or high end bike in the beginning. But, your customized (read personalized) bike can become more of a beloved bicycle than any off the rack item you plonk down cash for. Bicycling is a cheap way for the weekend tinkerer to enjoy experimenting on. Upgrade to your wallets content! :)
Very good explanation about compatibility, most beginning buyers think: I'll 'JUST' upgrade to group set X ... But you're already bound to a limited realm once you buy into specific frame dimensions ...
i wish all lbs sales ppl were this upfront. unfortunately i learned the hard way a few years ago buying a bike. now i more informed with knowledge like this. really great info
I remember my first bike was a basic, cheap(ish) 8 speed alloy. Nothing special but it served me well. For my next bike I spent 4x the money but got a pretty well decked out aero carbon bike with ultegra. So many people were like "you're a relative newbie buying a bike like that? That's stupid". But the rim brakes and the 11 speed components have served me well and eased upgradability/ replaceability. If I bought a 10 speed bike between the two prices I'd just have to sell it and lose more money down the line. As soon as you have a carbon bike with 11 speed you don't really need to buy another of that kind.
Might as well spend big and spend once!
I think upgrading your existing bike is okay in 2021, not sure what it's like in the US but in the UK/Europe, retail prices have gone up significantly and its very difficult to get a hold of bikes in common sizes.. In this case it might be worth spending the money on wheels and a new groupset instead of waiting months for a bike to come in stock, I personally bought a second hand Tarmac with Tiagra recently, I used to have the old Ultegra 6700 10 speed, I've been riding the Tiagra for a month now and it's really impressed me, so i'll keep it on for a while but when it wears out, I'll have to look at my options in either selling the bike like you mentioned or as mentioned to upgrade it :) thanks for making this video, you did make some good points
I have a 2013 Specialized Roubaix, it came with sram apex group. After owning the bike for 5 years and loving it so much I decided to upgrade components. Went for Sram Red group. It was more like a reward to me and the bike for being a great bike. Bought the sram group from a pro team overstock, being rim brake and the pro team going wireless disc they didn’t need it. It saved me hundreds. My bike is very fast now. Only need to go for carbon wheels. 2021 still riding my old Roubaix.
just recently upgraded my specialized Allez to a Roubaix comp and lemme tell you, I am IN LOVE with that Ultegra. Was such a fat upgrade from the claris my goodness. I did spend a pretty penny but I plan on keeping this bike for a long long time and just upgrading everything else. ie. wheels.
great points. glad i went 105 a while back. it has been a pleasure to ride and upgrade slowly over time. biggest upgrade was the wheels...what a huge diff the new wheel set makes.
There you go!!! That’s what I’m saying
This video should be required viewing for anyone buying their first race bike. 10/10.
Great show of comparison! I wish all bike shops were honest like you. Love your vids. Keep em coming👌🏻👌🏻👊🏻
thanks so much and I do my best to help out the best IO can so I dont have to deal with angry customers, makes my job easy too lol
So true - it’s always a better deal to buy the group set already on the bike. I know people say “you can always upgrade” but it costs way more than just buying it with 105 out of the box. And BTW, Ultegra is really worth the extra money. I’ve had Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra (as well as SRAM Rival and Force) and it really is in a different class.
I bought a Cannondale Caad12 alu bike with 105 as my first bike. It’s amazing and I upgraded it with Zipp 302 wheelset and Garmin Vector 3 power pedals. It’s a serious upgrade and I don’t think I would do much better on a carbon frame and with electronic gears.
Nice choices. On a serious note, an aluminium bike, especially one like a CAAD12 (which is practically a race AL bike, ready for crits!), will do you for a long time.
Great video.
Getting into any new sport or hobby is tough. Get in on entry level and really enjoy it means you spend more later. Go all in then quit a few month later, means you spent too much. I know guys that switch hobbies/activities 2-3 times a year. I guess the customer needs to know their tendencies before making a purchase.
Absolutely
Hi there, thanks for the video! I’m so glad I didn’t pull the trigger yet. What brand and model do you think is the best value for an upgradeable bike right now in 2023 in your opinion? I’m open to older and used models as well.
depends on what ur trying to accomplish with it, there are a otn of models out there, but the tarmac sl7 comp model with a great bike to start with and is not hindered by upgrades
The arguments about the front mech and crank are a little iffy. Unless you're going more narrow on the front mech it's going to be able to be adjusted to shift, you can 100% throw an 11 speed ultegra or 105 crank on that tiagra bike and it will be fine. My group sets on my bikes are all mixed up and they run fine as long as you keep the speeds the same. One of my favorite setups is using friction shifters on modern 11 speed shimano. It's way smoother than it has any right to be.
Great video, when I learned these facts about compatibility of upgrading I pre ordered the elite... back in August...still waiting for it to arrive at the shop 😅
Glad I could help!
Don't have a clue why I'm watching this. I'm still riding the same steel 10-speed I've had for decades, with friction shifters. And I don't do group rides. LOL
I did enjoy the video, though. 👍
thank you so much for the support then and sounds like you know what youy like and whAT WORKS FOR YOU
I did a rebuild of a similar type roadbike. Put trigger shifters, a new crank and new derailleur front and rear. Admittedly it cost a bit but was a fun project.
@@themondoone6316 you learn so much doing it too! Glad you were able to breath new life into am old frame.
I learned this when I had a 2018 Trek Domane AL2. It came with Claris gruppo. Once I discovered the cost of upgrading it, I sold it on Craigs list. Now I have aluminum 105 (a Fuji knockoff) I got from Nashbar in 2018 and a Canyon Ultimate ultegra I got back in fall of 2019. When you're ready for 11 speed gruppo bike, just sell the entry level you have and buy a new bike. You'll be glad you did. Listen to GC on this one, he makes a lot of sense.
yes!!! good stuff, and yea I mean it wil only help in the future, if you buy the bike and you are happy with it and see no need but just some excersise, then leave it and the bike will perform perfect!!
Indeed, a very sensible advice.
You can upgrade Claris or Sora to Tiagra.
The Tiagra 4700 rear derailleur can work with a 105 5800 shifter. If the Scott has 11spd wheels all you have to upgrade is the shifters, cassette, and chain.
Not everyone can spare the extra coin when they buy a bike. There are upgrade options.
This guy has good intentions, but he's wrong. You can upgrade an entry level bike and it doesn't have to be more expensive than the bike itself. And for most people getting into the sport, spending $1500 at the beginning is not feasible...neither is dropping $1000 for an entry level then another $1500 - $2000 for a new bike with better components. In 2019 I wanted a new Bianchi...I had decided on an aluminum frame because I don't plan on anything that would require a carbon frame and I wanted the relaxed geometry of an endurance bike. So my choice was the Via Nirone 7 105....but of course every place local to me was sold out...so I did the next best thing, I bought the Via Nirone 7 Claris. While I rode the bike, I spent the next year buying Shimano 105 drivetrain parts via whatever retailer was cheapest at the time, using the VN7 105 as a guide as to what fit. First I bought the cassette, then the drive train (front & rear derailleur, and shifters), then the brake calipers, chain, and then crankset. Finally I bought the wheels. And make no mistake, if you have a 7/8/9 speed drive train, you will have to upgrade the crankset to match if you go with an 11speed 105. Was it more expensive to do it this way? Maybe by $100 or $200, but buying it piece by piece was certainly easier on the budget than buying the groupset outright or buying a more expensive bike.
That is good for you but not every consumer has the time or knowledge to do this. It is easier to buy the better bike.
@@stephen4347 lol, you totally missed the point. Which was, not everyone has the money to buy a bike then buy another. And not everyone has to do it themselves, that's what local bike shops are for.
Well this is one of the rarely seen honest videos with the facts.
Thank you for this video and for explaining it as everyone should be.
I am in bikes for 3 years and I learned it on the hard way.
When I bought myused “no name” (“California” was sticker on it) bike I was happy as small kid.
It was hybrid bike, I mean not it todays terms of hybrid bikes, but it was mix of road bike and MTB components with flat steerer.
I liked the shape of it and later I started to upgrade it bit by bit. It came on 25mm tires and I found it unfonfortable, so I went for 37mm wide brand new tires. I replaced complete groupset to newer Shimano XT, I replaced the brakes, shifters, casette, QR-s, steerer, seat, well everything except frame, hubs and wheels. I made about 800km with it and I decided to sell it and to buy brand new bike. I sold it for half of price of all parts I invested in it. I was very sorry about it, because it was great and caoable bike.
Later I bought brand new Cube Nature EXC and I upgraded some things and later many other things, like full groupset, tubeless tires, chain, seat, pedals, brakes, air fork etc.
Now I have my dream bike and I reall enyoj to ride it. I made about 800km on it and I have no plans to sell it. It can do only my wife if I die before her 😂
I upgraded my entery bike that came with Sora. No regrets. Brought it across the world when I moved and still use it around town. It's important to remember that $9k isn't a bargain to most people.
thats awesome!!! and im sure you had it for a while and enjoyed the ride it seems like a bike you value and thats another case were you enjoy it and are an enthusiast but this video is more for those people who get in and catch the bug quick and want to go all out on parts
the problem of bike industry has always been: the entry level product is painfully heavy and unwelcoming. The cheaper it is, the more hate to the sport customer end up with. That is pushing away people from this sport.
I've taken too many people on their "first ride" only for them to end up quitting a month later because they weren't having fun on their cheap bike. When I help shop for friends I always tell them: it's going to be a waste of money if you buy something you're not going to use. I always push them up to a 105 build.
The best suggestion for an entry level bike has been an alloy frame with 105 for the past 15-20 years. That's what you should buy, look no further.
That is the recommendation I give to all my friends who want to joint the sport! Also, because most of them come from office jobs, I suggest endurance bike frame.
yea but then they come in with an 800 dollar budgt 105 on aluminum frames arnt really considered entry level anymore
@@GCPerformance18 as you point out, buy cheap, buy twice. It makes sense to save the extra $400 and get the bike with 105. Even if you don't end up liking cycling, the used market is definitely a sellers market right now and it will be easy to sell a 105 bike and get most of your money back. Of course, I'll bet your customers think you're just trying to get them to spend more money...
I had a blast upgrading my $1k entry level bike through covid and lack of work. I flipped the take off parts on FB market and fleaBay then used that money on new components. It also allowed me to support the LBS.
thats aweosme and ofr sure it is possible and it sounds like it gave you some time to kill and enjoyed it!!!! but alot of people dont want to do the fun stuff like that they jkust want it on there to ride and show it off
Same here, I upgraded my Bianchi with Claris to 105 and am going to use the Claris to upgrade my daughter's bike which was Tourney.
At least we are not alone, I went from Tiagra 4600 to 105 R7000 and loved every moment of doing the work. After flipping the old parts on eBay it cost me about $400, cheaper than a new bike!
Thanks for this video👍🏻 I’m new to the sport and this helps me for a future “Nicer” bike purchase.
Glad to help!
Very informative, use your entry till you have the money. You'll be stronger anyway if you train with your heavy groupo entry bike.
How does riding an entry level bike make you stronger? A heavy bike does not make you stronger as you push the same power and you push on a lighter bike, you just go slower up hills.
@@chrisoliver6690 LMAO
Front end of my bike 105 the rear is Sora , not because I was particularly upgrading just struggling to find Sora parts. It works just fine and will eventually be all 105 .
Upgraded an entry level steel peugeot from '1998. I've had it since new and wore it out........went from shimano RX100 7 speed via strong light to Campag veloce 9 speed. Still with me 24 years later. Its been time trialled in its youth, now it goes distance. Second wheelset. The frame has one dent and the Seat clamp is starting to go soft. Been powder coated twice. Upgrade what you like. If you want speed start with yourself then build the bike to suit. Otherwise just enjoy the ride keeps up with the new toys on group rides.
seems like a bike you enjoy though and means something to you, then by all means, this video goes out the window,
Really great advice. I have just bought a second hand gravel bike and was looking upgrading the gears n breaks. But it’s probably more cost effective to just save up a bit more and buy a newer bike. 👍
Sounds weird but your shops look really puts me at ease and is a place I’d really like to be in
Thanks so much!!!! I appreciate it
I think a good rule of thumb when buying a bike is to know yourself. If you're the type of person who goes all in when they try something new, then go for the higher level bike since you know you will prob want to upgrade once you're more into the sport and it will save you $ long term. If you're the type of person who likes to try new things, but not necessarily stick with it long term, then go for the lower level bike as you will save $ up front in the event you prob don't get that into it.
yea for sure it is all about knowing what you are comfortable with spending up front
Brill advice ...just getting a Tiagra bike of mine serviced and was thinking of upgrading but I wont bother now. You are right about the Tiagra gears they do shift sweet. Im just gonna get the full service and replace my front askium. Really glad I watched this...thank you!
Thanks so much!!! Yea you really can’t go anywhere with the tiagra but it does limit you with upgrades. The shifting is perfect as is and as long as your okay with that. Then your good to go
Great video...I now use my entry level bike for my indoor trainer and use my new bike for the road.
For the Tiagra Scott example...you can always sell the Tiagra and find someone that upgrades from 105 and get a great deal on that. Did that on a Synapse and the upgrade was just 50$.
yes this is the case but then you run the risk of disassembling the bike and maybe get some days opr weeks off the bike or then you run the rsik of listing it while on the bike and it getting more used or dirty or damaging it.... you can do this but no one wants to buy a new bike wait to sell and not ride
I just went from Claris to 105 on a 2015 Giant that originally was $700. I love the frame and can’t part with it. Great investment and I can still run 28’s. Along with an upgraded wheelset it totally transformed the bike at a cost much less than buying a new bike. My LBS never even attempted to pitch me a new bike. They just did what I asked...and that was super cool.
Can you change the gearset from Claris to 105 without changing the wheelset or anything else? Will it fit?
@@GOLTEB I could have kept the original wheelset on my particular bike. The 28’s have just enough clearance on the left chainstay. Like the width of a credit card. I’ll most likely go back to 25’s when they wear out. Everything else is fine.
@@timyaiser i see! Thanks alot man
Where was this video when I bought my bike lol. Great advice and great break down. I bought a Allez Claris and wish I would've gotten the 105 model.
Thank you for making this video. I have a trek 1.2 that has shimano sora groupset. I wanted to upgrade the groupset and all, but was very confusing at the time. Some people said that the stock wheel won’t take the 11-speed cassette, etc. But nobody explained like you did. Well, I ended up decided to get a new carbon bike with full 105 groupset because upgrading seems very sus. And now that I watched your video. I think I made the right decision. Your video should be recommended to more newbies like me.
I bought a Domane AL5 this year with 105. I wanted a solid 11spd groupset and prioritized that over the carbon frame/componentes.
Still not cheap, but it replaces my hybrid bike, and will work great for gravel and road stuff, whatever speed of ride I’m on!
That's why if I have the option to buy a lower tier frame with better components or a better frame with worse components, I'll choose the latter every time. I always inevitably end up upgrading my bikes at some point so it's just more worth it this way
I’m in the market for a Specialized Diverge and came across this awesome video! Great advise, now I’m a subscriber 😃
you are very welcome!!! thanks for watching!
Upgrading can be cost effective if you are patient. For example chains and cassettes, wear out and need to be replaced. If you time your upgrade you will be replacing those anyway. Regarding the main part of the groupset, you can pick up something second hand or when the latest version is released of the 105 the new 7xxx, the superseded 7000 series is often reduced.
Upgrading your bike slowly allows you to appreciate the changes and what differences these things make to how your bike rides and feels. You also have the fun and experience of a project.
For example my first set of carbon wheels I got was from someone who did not want the wheels that came with his new carbon bike. I picked them up for $800 and with very low kms, if I bought then new retail they would have been $1,400 .
Also most of us have to work to a budget and it does not mean you can't improve your bike as you can afford it and avoid going into debt to get the lot right now.
*See's my exact bike in the thumbnail and gets excited
*Realizes the title after watching the video for 30 seconds
lmao I died laughing when I saw this!!!! your bike is perfect!!!!!! nothing wrong with it all
@@GCPerformance18 lol glad you thought it was funny, I love my Addict to death. I put aero clip ons & made a disc wheel out of wrapping paper/electric tape so in my eyes it’s just as fast as a Plasma for a fraction of the price.
... sees* (third person, no apostrophe) ...
As an owner of a ~10 year old Specialized Allez I'm feeling very lucky: I'm far too fat and slow to need to worry about upgrading the bike ;)
I did the same, though I took care to change the original 12-27 cassette for an 11-28. Bought it for half of what a new one would retail for when the first owner got a tarmac. It's a better bike than I am a rider, so I couldn't be happier.
hey man at the end of the day as long as your riding and enjoying it thats all I care about :) keep it my guy
@@GCPerformance18 100%. My equipment doesn't limit me, and my rides are fun. That's all that matters. Thanks so much 👍
I upgraded my 2023 Domane SL5 gen 4 from stock 105 mechanical to Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical groupset and Dura-Ace 9200 crankset (all brand new for around $1K ). I upgraded the chain to a pre-waxed 12-speed Dur-ace chain as well. I also upgraded the wheels from stock Paradigm alloy wheels to Bontrager Aeolus 5pro (from a brand new bike, wheel take off) which I paid $750, and re-use the stock tires Continental 700 x 32. I did all the work involved. I learned a lot from doing it myself and also save money. I felt really good about the upgrades I made. I will be keeping all the stock parts, and if I plan to sell the bike one day then I can reinstall the stock components and transfer the Dura-Ace components to the new bike.
Solid, good sense commentary. Great to hear!
thnaksssss
with my first bike i was looking to upgrade almost everything, so i bought a pinarello f12 and now i have nothing to upgrade..... except getting a 2nd pair of wheels
I would like to question this in my situation. About 6 months ago I bought Trek domane al 2, with Claris groupset. I really like the frame a lot. Plus, Trek provides life time warranty for the frame to the first owner. So for the long term, I am thinking why should I pay at least 1.5k to another for a better groupset? Instead, I can simply spend around 500-600 to make a full upgrade, and still keep the nice frame for which I have life time warranty. What do you think?
What do you think of the Claris shifter? I have the same groupset and it feels terrible to shift gears.
I don't have a bike yet but I'm planning to buy one someday so thanks for the advice I find it really helpful
you are very welcome and best of luck when you decide to buy
Something to consider could be a second hand bike market since you can get that upgradable bike possible way cheaper nowadays instead of going for cheap entry level bike.
Quite often its possible to find a bike that costs somewhere around 50-60% price of the original but when considering wear and tear it is probably sitting at 80-90% (basically barely used). So on the money you would save by buying a new one, you could get maybe a new set of wheels, a groupset, gps computer etc.
Back in the day I bought dozen of bikes that really were in mint condition at about half price before finally settling with my last roadie. Some basic fine tuning and ready to go..
Weird, it's almost like they design them so that the upgrade is prohibitively expensive in the aftermarket vs OEM prices.
lmfaoo
You don’t necessarily need to upgrade the front mech if your changing speeds in the rear. Don’t get me wrong it’s nice to have all shiny new matchy matchy components. But when needs must you can run some pretty odd combos
no I agree with that but I mean if your upgrading everything you might as well it isnt the most expensive thing in the world
I bought a 2014 bike with Sora components on it before the pandemic hit last winter for just over $200. It's a huge upgrade over the 1980's steel road bike with downtube shifters that I used to ride. I honestly think I'll be riding this thing for at least 10 years; getting more gears and a lighter bike won't make me that much faster, but it sure will cost a lot. I think the only time it's worth upgrading is when you find a good deal on the used market.
This was the reason I got the allez elite back on October 2020 as an upgrade from my steel single speed. I love it and don’t regret it despite the big purchase at the time
Or: be thrifty and buy a used bike. No need to pay retail prices if you are careful and know what you are looking at and for.
The 2nd hand market is following the new market, in case you didn't realise.
@@channul4887 that's kind of an obvious comment. Of course it does, same for cars and houses.
The original comment is still valid as not only do you have a reduction because of the 2nd hand value, but you also save about 20% sales tax.
@@tonyjones9442 In a market where it's difficult to buy shit new, as is the case now, 2nd hand prices go through the roof, in many cases making buying used as expensive as new or very close to new. The word thrifty doesn't apply to current times.
As for sales tax, original sales tax is accounted for in the used price as that's how much you pay when you buy new and there's no reason for the market to ignore it. That's what the free market does it behaves rationally.
Bikes are like weight sets right now. There's bikes here from the 80s selling for thousands
Tires and and to a lesser degree wheels, that’s all the Tiagra bike needs to be super competitive at a race.
Yep, groupset should not be the first thing to upgrade!
@@ChristopherWaltersgoogle I agree to a point! once you feel the limitation of shifting quickly in a race situation(responding to attacks etc), you may want to start upgrading those derailers at least!
I prefer my one-off frankenbikes but I've advanced my wrenching skills over the years and I always resell my old parts to offset costs. My first road bike was an Allez and the only upgrade I bothered with was to upgrade the wheels.
Truth - buy the best you can, and then upgrade the whole bike later. Good advice. The only time I think it makes sense is getting a really nice bike with OK wheels, and then change those out easily later. I bought my wife a nice Specialized carbon Roubaix Ultegra Di2 disc bike that came with aluminum wheels, and then for Christmas I bought her some CLX32 carbon wheels.
I have a caad12 w 105 and feel like throwing some zipp aero bars and a pair of hunts carbon wheels.. worth it?
of course as long as you can afford it and are happy with the bike!!!
best thing to do with that bike is that you use it for months and then when you PLAN to upgrade parts of it, sell the certain part for a low price for you to add up to the upgrade. win-win, for me.
agrre
This makes the most sense to me! Selling a bike at massive loss just to get a new bike for a groupset makes absolutely zero sense to me 😄
Yup! I totally agree. I went down the rabbit hole of upgrading my some of my worn component and go more higher end and the cost was way more than i expected for the reason you mentioned.....You can't Frankenstein your parts it all has to match up to work properly...... I just should have got a new bike with new tech and I would have been way better off!
I bought an entry Cannondale to use outside because the roads are too rough (massive construction projects) where I live to risk riding a really nice carbon bike. I finally went from old 10speed Dura-Ace to new the new 9150 Dura-Ace on my nice bike, but now I have a spare set of alloy rims and a whole groupset of old Dura-Ace in 10 speed. I take it that this would be the case where one actually SHOULD upgrade the entry bike with the take-off components from my old bike if I intend on riding it, right?
greeting from Indonesia, well, i just began start using RB on October 20 ( before it i use mtb ), i use polygon ( Indonesian local brand ) bike, entry level bike using Shimano claris as standard groupset, 8 speed 11-30t, kindly happy, as i got limited budget to upgrade, i change the sprocket 8speed 11-25t, now i got my avg. speed faster, and top speed too, it's now depends the terrains we like to play?? is it climbing? or just like to sprinting, that's all from me, hope it helpful for someone have limited budgets
yes this is true!!!! and thanks for watching I love my international fans!!!!
Wow...a few years ago you could get an 11spd 105 (carbon) bike for almost the same price as these brand new.
uea I know crazy right?
Definitely. I'm remaining hopeful [for the sake of the sport] that these prices eventually level out or decrease a tad bit after the pandemic or when disc brake tech becomes standard. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with Sora or Tiagra, the prices are just absurd to me.
It's getting stupid isn't it
@@bendunbar8334 Very. When did mid-range level pricing become entry level? I don't ever recall a sora/tiagra equipped bike for over 1300 in the longest..
@@bendunbar8334 money printing -> oversupply of money -> inflation. These prices ain't going nowhere, only up. It's a pattern that always repeats itself.
Well, your talkin about initial costs.
Ex., I boght a 2016 Roubaix with Tiagra(3,000$) . Last year, i upgraded everything to Ultegra r8000 for 1600$ (labor incl.) . Total $$ spent would be 3000$ + 1600$ = 4,600$.
If i were to sell the bike instead of upgrading, i would have gotten about 1,000$ for it. Then buy a new Roubaix/Tiagra 3,900$. Total $$ spent would be (Old Tiagra 3,000$ ) - ($got from selling it 1,000$) + (new roubaix/tiagra) 3,900$ = 5,900$.
So if you dont mind the older frame (which hardly changes year to year), upgrading is cheaper. I personally opt for getting a better frame with a lower grade groupset. Once the groupset starts to wear, i upgrade.
Somewhere out there on CZcams is a video from last year of Adam (I think) Yates doing his off-season training on old 9-speed shimano. Keep it clean, functioning well and carbon-free and you Don't need to be throwing $ at it. This guy is great, trust him.
yea that is true I know plenty of faster gyuys then me whoe have the free tiome to ride way more then me on a budget and they kill me on there bikes that have 8-10 speed
I saved a little longer to get a bike with 105, because that opens the door to upgrading slowly to Ultegra or DA ... had I bought a bike with Tiagra or Sora I would have started riding maybe a couple weeks or months earlier but I’m looking at being in the sport for a while so long term it wouldn’t have been the most cost effective strategy.
Penny smart, dollar foolish
Id say unless you want electronic shifting upgrading past 105 other than cranks and cassette for weight isnt worth it, it shifts/brakes just as well as mechanical da/ult and the weight of derailleurs shifters and brake calipers arent that different. With that money id upgrade wheels, tires and cockpit before you even touch drivetrain. Also if your bike doesn’t have a carbon seatpost definitely get one your taint will thank you
My problem with that approach is that there are very few 105 bikes that come with higher-spec frames, wheels, or components. I went for a Tiagra bike because 10 gears is more than enough to start road biking with and it will probably last me a few years. By the time I’m fit enough to justify a new bike, I’ll want a bike that has better wheels, saddle, frame, and handlebars, not just a better group set. At the point at which you basically have to replace the entire bike to feel like the upgrade was significant it’s better value just to buy a new bike instead of upgrading your old one. The exception to that is small components that make a big difference like tires.
:)
Been upgrading my bike over the years and always on a look out for sweet deals! $500 Quarq Power Meter Carbon Elsa, $400 for new shimano 105 groupset and saddle for $200 and the bike is amazing!
damn, you are one of the lucky people who knows what to look for in this instance, there are a ton of people who want to do what you do but are so overwhelmed by configurations and compatibility
@@GCPerformance18 Video makes sense and it's better to spend more on a new bike rather than upgrading since labor and time.
My "entry" bike is a SL7 expert, you recommended putting in the extra buck over the SL6 Comp. thank you for that!
very nice!!!!!!!!!! thats a beautiful bike have fun
I got your point. It's an important point of view for those that is looking for a new bike.
But the point is: If you already have your bike. Upgrades can be cheaper than sell and buy a new one.
For example:
You have a 9 speed bike and love it. But want to have a better wheel, that will make a huge difference from the standard you have. So why not?
Buy a new bike with a nice wheel will cost you much more. Maybe you don't have or don't want to spend tons of money in a new bike.
So you upgraded your wheel and now you're training a lot and getting better. You realise your groupset has some good usage and have to be replace it.
You have a sora, that is a pretty good one. But you have to change some pieces.
You find the 105 for 600£ in UK. Why not to do the upgrade?
My point is: When you already have a bike, you don't have to buy a new bike every time you want to upgrade it. And of course you will spend a quite good money upgrading, but this will be in long term.
But if you're gone buy a new bike and you're the type of person that want to upgrade each season, so, yes, I agree with you.
I have a scot with Sora for 5 years. I bought a new seat and pedals at that time. And Now, I'm thinking to do a bike fit and upgrade my wheels.
I will not spend 2k pounds for a new bike once I can make mine that is perfect, much better and with an amazing wheel for less than 1k. And even spending this much, My bike will be cheaper than 2k, but with a much better wheel. Only my groupset will be worst.
It will always have cons and pros and this is important for all people to understand, but thanks for the video, it's great to have people putting some effort for the community,
this is true as well, this makes sense and I see ur poitn
Not sure I agree with his reasoning. I bought a Scott S50 with a Sora groupset 10 years ago and spent around $900. I put thousands of miles on this bike and it's treated me well, I'm just ready to upgrade. Now I want to go to the 105 groupset on my Scott frame for $600. So essentially, I get 2 good bikes for $1,500. The option is getting a new bike for $1,400 and maybe sell my old bike for $200, which is a total of $2,100 for the two bikes. I think I'll upgrade the groupset.
yea but it is different for a used bike because the parts to upgrade for yours are oging to be cheaper... but if you bought a new 10 speed bike and upgraded to 11 speed the prices would be retail and more expensive
I can't even imagine thinking that the weight savings from swapping a 105 rear mech to an ultegra rear mech would be noticeable
It's not...
@@DK-us9lu My point
I upgraded my broken 105 rear mech with a used ultegra rear mech, I'm now in the pro peloton.
Really no since in upgrading a 105 at all to be honest.
It was worth upgrading for me as I have an old Trek 1500 that I never use and didn't want to keep taking off my Specialized Venge off and on my Zwift setup for road riding as well. Broke out the beat up Trek with easily 20,000 km on it and swapped it all out to (except brakes) to an Ultregra R8000 setup...just for Zwift...pricy but to me worth it as I already had a frame I wasn't using...just needed more modern components with a better gearing range.
"subscribe if you want; if you don't, I don't care." I love it