160: How Kimball Persuaded Apostles to Agree on Lifting the Ban (Part 6 of 13 Matt Harris)
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- In our next episode with Dr. Matt Harris, we will talk about how President Kimball persuaded the apostles to lift the priesthood and temple ban on black church members. It turns out the Brazil Temple was a key part of that, as well as Bruce R. McConkie's change of heart. We will also get into more detail on Monroe Fleming's "almost" ordination in 1969! Check out our conversation!
This series brought out a number of stories probably not widely known to the general public. Awesome!
Loved this interview. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for listening and for the kind words!
I read The Miracle of Forgiveness in 1980. I saw President Kimball's gentle spirit shine throughout his tenure. The Church has navigated some serious hurdles with 'more to come'. Another interesting score of history.
Seems like I remember that David B. Haight said that the Apostles heard a voice telling them to give the priesthood to every man.
Matt never found any references to what you're saying.
I know knew Joseph Freeman! He was our bishop in the Hillsdale ward in west valley city, Utah. He’s a great guy! He was on the stake high council before we moved in 2018
I'll bet you would enjoy listening to my interview with Joseph Freeman. See czcams.com/play/PLLhI8GMw9sJ4n8tLsV0EL6Qp5cTSY0HLM.html
Bro. Freeman headed the housekeeping crew in the Denver temple when I also worked there, almost 30 years ago. He is a very nice, humble man.
Another fantastic video! Thank you!!!
Our pleasure!
@@GospelTangents binging all your videos haha
It was never justified scripturally. It was Brigham's doing.
Take a look at the Pearl of Great Price. The Pharaoh a descendant of Cain, though being a righteous man was forbidden from the priesthood and he ruled by imitation of the priesthood. Do your scripture study, it’s all in there.
@@rodhancock3549 It helps if you are certain of that book.
“I pay my tithing; I’m faithful-when can I hold the priesthood?” Bless these very wonderful black people’s hearts. Some women feel to say the very same words...
No comparison.
Since Kimball was God’s mouthpiece on earth and the leader of His church on earth why would he need to persuade the twelve of anything?
All of the twelve and the first presidency must agree and be one.
@@ensignj3242 They said it was a revelation to give the blacks the priesthood. Should have been cut and dried.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 The Brethren have talked some about the process of reaching unanimity. They start off expressing their thoughts on a subject, and they frequently differ. Pres. Ballard spoke about this at a conference hosted at our stake a few years ago. He said the brethren are no shrinking violets, indicating they are strong men with opinions. It isn't like a magical revelation wand is waved. Each member of the quorum has to get an answer to study, pondering, and prayer. Any process takes time.
The Brethren have never claimed to be infallible. I remember a talk where Elder Bednar said this explicitly.
@@gemelindacjp7976 So much for being prophets, seers and revelators.
You must not be familiar with D&C 121: 42-42: "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile"
That's what Pres Kimball was doing.
What about the NAACP. Wasn't legal action building up toward a class action discrimination suit for blacks being banned from the priesthood?
@@TEA-fj3ut I have an interview with Matt coming up in a couple of months that talks about that very issue!
Do you or Matt believe there was a revelation. I think it was wrong in the first place so why would you need a revelation? I remember several years ago there was someone talking and they felt that the reason the ban was lifted was because of the great pressure being put on them from outside the church and finally a leader that had the guts to push.
Edward Kimball (Spencer's son) wrote an incredible book about SWK, called "Lengthen Your Stride." He discusses the non- verbal revelation. See mormonheretic.org/2012/07/22/the-non-verbal-1978-revelation/
Greg Prince also says Pres. McKay claimed a revelation was needed to overturn the ban. See mormonheretic.org/2008/09/14/was-priesthood-ban-inspired/
You’re right! Christ invites all to partake of his salvation!, both bond & free, black and white, make and female to come unto him.
@@dankrause5665
Was there a baptism ban?
I was already planning to burn my mom's copy of Mormon Doctrine if I inherit it. I am even more determined to burn any copies which I may be given when I learned that Bruce R. McConkie was publishing it 14 years before his apostleship. He was trying to make himself church spokesman without the calling of apostle.
Help me out please. I can not find a book by Dr./Bro. Matthew Harris titled ‘Blacks & Mormon Church’.
Would this be the book referenced in this podcast: ‘The Mormon Church & Blacks: A Documentary History’. (published 12/7/2015)
Yes, that's it. Here is a link: amzn.to/3yVnc9I
If you want to watch all of the episodes with Matt, here is the playlist: czcams.com/play/PLLhI8GMw9sJ4PLZQ0DkuXiq_ZMfr6_QNy.html
Why in the world did the ban come in the first place? Who started this? See 2 Nephi 26: 33
Dr Paul Reeve gives good information on the start of the ban. See czcams.com/play/PLLhI8GMw9sJ6kY8_AXBQELEk5uXRYyM2_.html
Personally, I am very disturbed by the facade of unity portrayed by the Apostles in God's supposed "revelations" which existed before the ban was lifted. Obviously, God wasn't directing them to oppose each other! Obviously, some of the Apostles weren't listening to God! This, rightfully, makes me very skeptical of the current pronouncements of the Church.
Why should I respect these men, and follow their edicts, as if they "talk to God"?
What did Joseph Smith say -- "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture!"
Great comments. Especially in light of president Oak's comments at the B1 event.
This is why you take the Holy Spirit as your guide. You can always pray to know whether what is taught from the Brethren is inspired. If you are truly humble and open to the fact that you may be wrong just as easily as they might be, if you're not looking to criticize but to really find out the truth, I believe you will always be led aright.
These men are sustained as prophets, seers and revelatory. This means that they are not ordinary members. The membership of the church believe these men talk with Jesus and Angels, first hand communication with deity. If these men don't have this ability, then they are promoting a fraud. Let's not mince words either they are Prophets or not.
I believe polygamy was wrong see Jacob 2& 3
Baptist Pastor Kyle Beshears has an interesting take on Jacob 2&3. See czcams.com/video/Lje_wbY1w90/video.html
you have NO IDEA how revelation comes thru counsel. find the clip from W Cleon Skousen on how this works. there was also an article in the ENSIGN magazine about the church in Africa , YEARS before there was any missionaries , or priestood , there except in south africa. President Mckay wanted to send missionaries to western africa in 1963. all the " books " written by people that THOUGHT they knew the reality of what " the mind and will of the LORD " was on this subject were just SPECULATING.
Where did you get your expertise?
Revelations did come down from God to lift the ban not from men....