A Better Tinybones, Trinket Thief | Jumpstart's Discard Commander | MTG EDH CEDH Deck Tech Primer
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2020
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So, I built Tergrid... And people didn't just hate the deck, they hated me. So I decided to transform the deck to a Tinybones discard deck. I'll still run Tergrid tho... 😈
Same here lol
As I was starting this vid that was my EXACT thought!
Lol, I’m doin the same thing
Would love to see an updated version of this now that MH2 is out
Commander looks sick I’m hyped for this video
I have cast oppression with zur's weirding on the board (so complete knowledge of peoples hands and control of their draws). Good times
Best thumbnail ever
As always, superb content. Your analysis of this deck and format are second to none. There is no one that documents the format like you do. Really appreciate your effort.
Thank you, Dave. That made my day. Really appreciated and glad you enjoy the work.
Lol! Loved the Drannith shoutout
Been waiting for this
I was thinking of building Muldrotha as a mass discard commander and running this in the 99. Muldrotha gives you the way to break parity in symmetrical discard. And any deck that lets you run two copies of black lotus (jeweled lotus and LED) seems decent.
I like it, I just hate what mass discard does for Underworld Breach
The content is just excellent, really. the way you guide us through each card and your choices, its just phenomenal. thank you! one thought would be that after you make "a better... x" videos, we could see the deck in action. or maybe you already do that, sorry!
I was thinking of who to make next... then BAM Mr Patrick here forcing me to spend hundreds of dollars of this bad boy HAHA
Haha, hold off though! Only buy the non-"Buy Out" cards... MTG Finance ruining this for folks. They'll decline after this artificial inflation dies down.
The 99 which cards are buyouts
@@SampsonsCorner Bottomless Pit, Oppression, Necrogren Mists... Check with MTGStocks(.com) for updates on the latest spikes. They do an excellent job highlighting what I'm mentioning here.
@@LocalGameGroup oh for sure :) thanks for the great content!
Funny enough I was just working and building a Liliana, Heretical Healer discard sac deck. Then wow this guy got spoiled! Just a bunch of commons and uncommons I need. Easy enough to build.
interesting brew! I love it!
I started looking for a few of these cards the day after Tiny Bones was announced, wasn't quick enough though since most of the cards were out of stock or taken out of stock already.
Yup 🤦♂️
Finally a solid discard commander! I have questions on a couple cards not in the list.
First being the new Liliana from M21. I know she's 4 mana but her abilities really synergize well with what the deck is trying to do.
Second is Library of Leng. Seems like a good way to keep cards we want in our hand to stay there.
*Library of Leng* is largely unnecessary, as we’re Discarding redundancies more often than not. The instances for Leng’s resourcefulness are far and now. Regarding M21 Liliana... She’s essentially a lesser Lili/Veil... However, the redundancy of Mass Discard and removal would be nice. You could definitely run both.
you can chain of smog as many times as you want even if there are no cards in hand, its a combo with ral 'storm conduit, you copy the spell to yourself ininitelty having ral deal damage to the table every time the spell gets copied
I am so excited man. 2 cmc. Draws about 3 cards per turn cycle. Can finally legitimately make people discard.
And of course mtg finance out priced it from most players.
It kills me... People trying to make a quick buck. Hold tight for reprints, haha. Bottomless Pit was a .50 cent card (still is), but now? I say hold tight on any orders... Even *if* through the link in the description.
@@LocalGameGroup on a card game designed for kids. It's ridiculous that basic playing cards cost such prices. If people wanna make money, then get a job. Old cards costing a ton makes sense. Needs reprints. Brand new cards?!? Really.
I really love the Skirge Familiar / Faith of the Devoted Tech. Your deck is pretty similar to mine. I have a couple different combos in mine but I might take one out to add the familiar combo.
Can I suggest that you add Mindcrank? You already have Bloodchief Ascention. Its so easy to just grab that other piece and go. Its worked well in my list
I dislike how slow that combination is... Bloodchief is already a flexspot in the list. It takes a while to get active, particularly when I’m the main target for attacks. I usually win through attrition, so the *need* for an infinite combo isn’t quite there. However, I can see why others would enjoy those two in tandem. Underworld Breach is a huge part of the cEDH meta. I cannot afford to play Mindcrank into that strategy... (2-to-3/4 decks run it at any given table I play).
Holy moly Lou2 came out today??? Damn boi
Is yawgmoth bargain better than ad naseum for the combo will it still work ?
I pulled one not complaining
Awesome now I can finish tinybones I got like 20 slots left
I'm currently building mono black rankle and building around nezumi bone-reader, dark deal and ill-gotten gains as main win cons. Got reassembling skeletons, bloodghast and endless cockroaches to sacrifice again and again and also a couple of "undying, persist" etc. creatures. Discard seems more like a side effect though and it's not going quite as planned.
TL;DR: Nezumi Bone-Reader
Mind crank would also be a good infinite combo and demonic tutor
My suggestion for you is to read off the latest wording for cards instead of off the card. I feel that the most updated wording of Chains is quite grokkable.
Very cool deck, can't wait to try it out!
You definitely should! The list is too much fun, haha.
Love the deck idea! Any thoughts on working Hymn to Tourarch or Mind Twist into the list?
Perhaps Hymn, but I’d sooner add more single target removal. The cost-efficiency and knowledge are more valuable to me, personally.
@@LocalGameGroup I would use Hymn over something like blackmail
Excited for Tinybones! Depressed I can’t get him foil.
I'm depressed with all the price hikes. I literally had no idea - they all happened overnight - but buyouts on all the older Discard Enchantments... Ugh.
I feel that too. I was lucky enough to have all of the major pieces because I was working on a Rankle deck.
Looking at your decklist, can I ask how do you play through all your own Stax pieces?
Like everyone else: cautiously. You choose what to/to not play, so you have the upper hand in pacing the game. If you can turn 1 Trinisphere, you do. Tinybones is mid-to-late game deck.
Can Delirium schemes be used if you have less than 3 cards in hand? Doesn’t seem like a cost so if that is the case it can close the gap of card advantage if you’re the one down on cards
You can use this if you had zero cards in hand. 👌
The 99 then I’d strongly consider not cutting it. Bc it can be used to close that gap of an unchecked thrasios or rhystic/ mystic gives them
So does his first ability go: I draw 1 card per card discarded? OR I draw 1 card only at the end of turn, regardless of how many cards opponents discarded?
So long as one Opponent Discarded a Card in any given Turn, you net 1 Draw. No more, no less. Unless there’s a rules clarification making this even better, that’s how I am playing it 👌
great video again! damn this deck seems toxic to play against. have you thought about adding stronghold rats? believe it or not, but not many players play creatures with shadow :P
Haha, no they don't! I had given thought to it though... Make some use of that Combat Phase... There's definitely ways to improve upon the formula. I think more Creature-centric Discard is the right approach. Ideally get *Diabolic Intent* back in as well. I played a few games last night... Nooo one liked *Oppression,* nor *Chains of Mephistopheles.* Good times, good times.
@@LocalGameGroup i like it in my Nath deck. ofcourse the enchantments that make people discard a card every round are very strong, but some rounds you really don't want to discard. And with these cute little rats you can decide to skip a turn if you rather not discard an important card. And he is basically as unblockable as Rankle. Maybe you can find a sweet spot to put it in by replacing one of your sorcery speed discard effects?
Arterial flow both triggers off nirkana revenant and asylum visitor
A LOT of Tinybones support cards mess with chulane apparently lol
Hahaha, as we know.
Thoughts on Vedalken Orrery for flash casting the hand attack spells?
With tergrid recently out, I put vedalken orrery/sword of feast & famine, giving my enchantments/sorcery instant speed with discard/sac interaction is extremely powerful. I think its not mentioned a lot, im not sure why
@@voidprism_studios666 you have a link to your deck ? would like to see how it's built
@@munchinkin www.moxfield.com/decks/BEUj8FMZCkqp-IZYLKz8gw
Its not cedh level more like semi casual power level 8-8.5. All the cards that didnt make the cut are in the sideboard. Sometimes I do edit it, and think of cutting out more 4cmc cards, but this is what I have for now.
@@voidprism_studios666 i think this is wayyyyyy better then the one of 99 .... what do you think ?
www.moxfield.com/decks/g2WdTpFRPkSqBt3ZISodXg
@@voidprism_studios666 i have a moxfield account too, we can discuss more up to date strategy over there
I know it´s hard to put in due to the 4 cmc but have you tought about Sangromancer because of the gain 3 life whenever somebody discards a card? Normally I wouldn´t think about such cards because of the combo-nature of the vast majority of the decks in the format but for this it seems like a good fit. Except for the Necropotence... but on the other hand if u played it already its nice for your necropotence ;)
I know plenty of folks are favoring Sangromancer. There are some Instances were the Life Gain would be nice: if you’re the only Black list at the table, folks will Turn sideways to reduce your life, so get accustomed to taking Damage. Only in that Instance would I feel the need to Reanimate her. Most all other Instances, I would just want a greater redundancy of Creature removal. Adding to your Opponent’s Commander Tax and removing the Hatebears swinging at you is better than simply Gaining Life. Won’t need Life Gain if you’re not getting swung at.
Lil‘ skelly thievin‘ stuff!
Gosh darn cute about it too.
The reason on why discard is not instant speed is because most of the time it would be played on draw step so if your opponent does not draw an instant you would lock them out of the game because they would lose it before they could use it. With that being said, vedalken orrery is a fun card for this to overcome this issue. Love the deck tech even two years later lol.
tried this deck and im hard focused, always first one out immediately lol
I'm scared of cabal coffers or yawgmoth's tomb because of the combo.
From my understanding the reason they haven't given us instant speed discard where we can pick as yet is because it would then allow us to essentially snipe people's hands post tutor, essentially making tutors more risky/potentially useless unless it's something you can use at instant speed.
With the limitations many of these have: it’s still not that bad. It would be no worse than having a card Countered, you’d simply be eliminating a Card option at Instant instead of Sorcery.
@@LocalGameGroup Actually i believe the reason is to avoid forcing discard during an opponent's draw step, denying them card draw and locking them out of the game.
Really? Now you made me want Mr. Tinybones haha
geth's grimoire is infinite combo with words of waste.
It’s not though. You have to pay for words of waste and you can only do it as many times as they have cards in hand for discard
@@johnayala771 I know, but it is for as many cards in your hand. And you're in luck in you have a necropotence on the battlefield.
How do you feel about Tasigur's Cruelty?
I was initially on it, but Ad Naus into it feels awful. Otherwise, the Card is 🔥
The tiniestttttttt of bones
Using this list with the commander that was revealed today....
Oh? Which one is that? The “Discards Permanents” one?
God of fright tegrid..... I think anyway.
@@bromangree You see the latest 2cmc, "opponents discard"? That'll go directly in as well.
@@LocalGameGroup I have not but I’ll go look at spoilers to find it lol thank you
question on why a few cards aren’t on the list. ex; Dark Confidant, Feed the Swarm, Blood Pet etc.
please make an update video! love the content btw 🖤
Dark Confidant - Have enough draw/cmc
Feed the Swarm - Meh (but you can)
Blood Pet - Actually okay, but also “meh”
I get asked for updates often. Not sure how to squeeze one in. Maybe a stream? Maybe a stream...
@@LocalGameGroup thanks for the reply and looking forward to the stream, if it happens lmao
Mind Twist .
It’s a really bad political card. That’s how you make a mortal enemy at the table!
🔥🔥🔥
where can i see a decklist?
Link in the description
Card Kingdom currently has Tinybones at 3.99 but also Out of Stock, so take that as you will. Tinybones I'm hoping will wind up being less than 20
Shish, I would’ve done $3.99 in a heartbeat... Ugh, haha
@@LocalGameGroup me too. Hopefully Jumpstart gets opened a bunch and there are enough singles out there to bring the price down.
I know I’m late to the party, but what about Torment of Hailfire? I would think it would work well with this kind of deck.
I had it in initially! You can definitely run it, yeah. I found I lean more towards attrition.
The 99 I recently pulled Tiny Bones, so I’ve been looking for ideas from various deck techs. I may add it because of my low budget. I won’t over your deck build and liked it. I would have to change a few things to fit my budget. Thanks for the input and reply.
@@theotherguy4478 Of course! Thanks for watching.
Can’t afford Chains of Mesphitoles ! It’s so fuxking good though :,(
Throwing in Gary as a pet card I guess
Gary's still good here though! Not a bad addition. Chains is solid, but fortunately not a "must."
You still play this list ever? Thinking about shifting my Tergrid into TB. Not fond of Tergrid cause of the CMC and hoop jumping. TB seems fun but a little in the same vein.
Card advantage when your opponents suffer disadvantage? It's good, but you paint a huge target on your head. Oddly enough, it's difficult to get an "ideal" hand, but I would prefer this over Tergrid (personally). Definitely worth updating/testing.
@@LocalGameGroup yeah it’s obviously a deck that puts you into the arch enemy slot and it just doesn’t seem like it’s a deck that can hold off 3.
Nooo, no… Definitely don’t want to be the only player doing control/stax… Same is true for any Stax-centric deck. I loved playing this one, but at the time everyone I regularly played with was doing something proactive. That’s since changed, so now that the pod is more balanced TB would be favored.
Please do an update on this!
Was hyped when i pulled him then Onyx came out and basically doubled almost all these cards prices lmao
are you going to play this in some future video?
That is a goal. 🤝 Next Brew Wars, for sure
Tell me a land youre scared about? Nephalia Academy
of course.
always entertaining; deck is shaping up to be fun ... for the pilot anyways!
Haha, yeah, it’s proven monstrous and targeted 😵 However, the strategy has firmed up with Tinybones at the helm. Easily the best Commander for Mass Discard.
Wonderful video! I’ve been tinkering with this idea for a month or so now, ever since I opened a tiny bones in a pack! This has inspired me to give Cedh a go with mono black :) I do have a question in regards to mentioning of mindslicer but not the include in the deck? Seems so good in this build and I’m really curious as to why it didn’t make the cut? Is it the cmc? Or was it the lack of sack outlet? Or was it because it hits your hand as well? Obviously you’d want to play it and get a pay off with Geths grimoire. Any input on this would be much appreciated :)
It requires more than itself to be decent. Mindslicer is not benefitted by how the deck is constructed. If you want mass discard that synergies well with the list, I recommend Dark Deal before considering Mindslicer.
The 99 thanks for the response! Yeah I’ll tinker around a bit more and see. I do see your point, I’m new to the world of Cedh and trying to change my casual deck building ways is proving challenging haha. Hope to see a video on this list in action soon! Keep up the great content!
A decent way to prevent your own discard is Library of Leng
I had it in there initially... It’s not too vital to the success of the list though. However, if you find yourself shorthanded and need X Card, Leng is good.
@@LocalGameGroup It's kinda a pet card for me, since it is only one of 2 cards ever with my last name on it. And I have wanted to play it for a while in a deck it actually useful in
no bottomless pit makes me sad ; (
one of my favorite discard cards
its definitely in there
Might mean "for sale"? A lot of places are getting these staples bought out.
@@LocalGameGroup ah, i already got most of the List for my Rankle deck so ima just missing that Smol 60 bucks boi
No mindcrank or underworld dreams aye?
Nope. Not needed. Mindcrank is bad now, with the rise of Underworld Breach. Don’t give folks that advantage.
They avoid instant speed discard because it's a soft lock if you get your opponent hellbent
Lol yeah, let me put the chain of mephistopheles in my deck. It's only a couple thousand dollars.
Proxy :)
Discard generally speaking has to be sorcery speed so you cant use them at the end of your opponent's draw step
Oh, but that’s all I want to do. Ever.
I'll take 5th lol
Congratulations!
If discard cards like thoughtseize were instant speed, tutors would be a lot worse.
What do you think about tiny bones in Opus Thief? It doesn't seem amazing to me but I've certainly been surprised before.
Inb4 chain of smog being 20+ dollars and you just picked up a tinybone boi... 😔
Personally, I feel that Chains of Mephistopheles is a nonbo with Tinybones because it negates your Commander's card advantage engine.
its a nonbo for me cuz it negates my wallet
It's a nonbo for the board, Turns your "Draw" into a "Rummage". It shuts off all cantrips when you get your Opponents hellbent though, that's the only reason you'd want it. You get them to a low point and keep them there. It also doesn't effect *Ad Nauseam* or *Necropotence,* so we're good. Again, you don't need it though.
@@LocalGameGroup Fair; haven't played the deck so only working off of theory. Looking forward to some videos showcasing Skull Kid.
Not a nonbo at all bc it triggers tinybones more giving you more card selection then your opponents while also restricting them from gaining card advantage. It limits you and it limits them but it limits them so much more bc you will trigger tiny bones more and essentially get way more card selection....Slowing the game down and making it more a battle of attrition... stax in black :)
Delirium schemes wouldn't put you down 4 cards, only 3, because you get the draw effect from lil bone boy
skeins*
@@assassn8gaming If he's still around, sure.
@@LocalGameGroup he should be. especially with greaves or boots.
Lol 60 regular bones
prices will go down. If not, people are genuinely weird to pay that much for a piece of cardboard. Especially if you can get so many more nice cards for that amount of money (buy a damned box)
bruh chains of Mephistopheles is an 800 dollar card why did you even include that lmao
? Proxy it if you cannot afford it. It’s meant for this deck.
I dont think this commander is gonna be any fun for the casual players. If you run this you are gonna be hated out. I know im gonna target out the Tinybone commander in 90% of the time.
Comes with the territory. 🤷♂️
This doesn’t look competitive to me
It is missing Thassa’s Oracle, true.
Came here because "A Better Tinybones" but the video is much longer than the other videos I have watched and it mentions all the same cards. *shrug*
Just follow the written primer then 👌