-wins the coin flip -makes a board full of Omni negates -turn change -maxx c Remember guys, combo decks would run out of control if they banned maxx c! [/sarcasm]
I would genuinely rather scoop against a board that I can't break than watch a combo player set up, activate maxx c on my turn and then sit there trying to comprehend why Maxx c always seems to benefit the exact kind of playstyle that it's supposed to be a counter to. Then it's just left down to the who drew their ash or called by. Wowee, such fun.
Like at least in the case that maxx c was banned, combo decks that are actually unbeatable would be addressed through problem cards on the banlist. And people act like combo decks would be left unchecked but like, everyone could just run 3 nib and hand trap negation for cards that stop it from resolving.
Maxx "C" becomes a problem in high-level play whilst being abuseable as a turn 2 followup where everything is a special summon spam. That's why it does not get hit in the OCG because everyone plays Pet Decks around here in a relatively casual environment, and whose decks are weak to it are expected to tech cards to address it.
My key memory with maxx c is when my friend decked out someone playing Exodia. This was synchro era, around quasar's release. My friend was playing fable quasar turbo, a deck that with a good starting hand can get out two copies of quasar, and his opponent was playing an Exodia variant I don't remember which. My friend starts to combo off and gets hit by maxx c. All right bet. exe, Exodia player ends up with 4/5 pieces and more than half his deck in hand, my friend then plays card destruction.
Just an FYI, no hate. U could play up to 60 cards in the deck actually. Just that having more than 40 would be less consistent draws compared to a 40-card deck
@@danydady6851 Well that is if you say you use cards like the grass is greener and throw 14 cards into the GY. Then all the GY effect can activate front there I am saying if you just purely draw without searchers. It would be less consistent due to having more cards in the deck which equals a lower chance of drawing a spell card or hand trap that is usually unsearchable
@@pokefanxerneas5800 that's what I'm talking about as well. If you just add more of those unreachable cards you can make the 60 card deck just as consistent as a 40 card deck. No grass is greener required.
i dont see the issue. the main problem with yugioh is the special summon spam. ur given a choice to not perform a cancerous turn, or your opponent is hopefully given enough cards to comeback from the bs ur about to play
That’s the illusion of choice though. Regardless of if you pass turn or keep playing against a skilled opponent you’re just losing +90% of the time. Maxx C can also be used by the going 1st player AFTER they’ve already preformed their cancerous turn 1. For every game you will win with it going 2nd you will lose because of it going 1st. I appreciate the different pov fren
The problem is if you perform even 2 summon the opponent is already +1, so for the vast majority of decks even if you try to put up any defense you are likely to give the opponent free resources to instakill you on their turn trough your weaker board
If you look at the meta of OCG (where Maxx C is legal) and TCG (where Maxx C is banned) you'll see that the decks played aren't too different. Maxx C does nothing but warp the entire game around whether it resolves or not. Hell, banning Maxx C sometimes frees up the 3 card spots that would normally be taken by Ash Blossom, because there are better options - that will never fucking happen as long as Maxx C is in the game.
If the idea was that giving rogue decks handtraps would level the playing field, then Konami failed horribly with cards like Maxx C and Ash Blossom. Not only that, meta decks adopted the handtraps anyway, so now the powercreep just compounds upon itself. Archetype specific support is good for longterm balance - handtraps and staples are not.
I don’t know if a world without handtraps is the best idea but it is interesting to see several comments wishing for it. Might be a future video idea. Like, imagine a full meta deck combining off with no handtraps to stop them. I feel like no handtraps would help meta more than it would hurt rogue.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny Removing all handtraps would be horrible at first, but if Konami consistently made archetype support and banned problem cards, I believe eventually it could level out. It would require Konami to slow down on new archetypes and focus on what they already have in the game. When tournament numbers show a widespread of decks being played, and no real certainty about the best deck - that would be an indicator the meta is doing well.
I think that semi generic support (i.e. type specific support) is under used. This allows variety while not needing to make hundreds of cards if Konami chose to give every deck a new "type" of card (i.e. give everyone a card like Havnis). Sure, such an approach might leave a few decks behind because of archetypal gimmicks, but that won't be much and then giving archetypal support is doable.
@@dudono1744 That definitely works too. In the case of Insects and Fish, Konami hasn't made anything game breaking that has helped them in generic support. Unfortunately, the game most players want is far different than the one Konami wants.
Something to note, live twin spright was agreed upon to be the best version of live twin was live twin spright even before joshs win, live twin inherently synergises too well with spright since its a lot of lvl2 monsters that lack power in some ways but have good consistency and spright provides that power. Also josh is known for playing runick on everything, which is why he player live twin runick spright lmao :p, hopefully maxx c and ash blossom get banned one day, a man can cope.
This video is a oerfect example of how bad balance ruins the game and takes a way the freedom ti have fun, build kore decks, and actually play the game.
People that don't understand will say: 'Just play without it if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play Maxx "C" or the cards that beat it.' 'Don't let Maxx "C" stop you from enjoying the game.' 'It's just a card' like, Maxx "C" should have never been printed.
@@dudono1744 weird how a TCG exclusive was "Needed" to counter something that was a menace in a format that it wasn't originally printed for or in. No, Maxx "C" was never "Needed" and any further expression of that thought needs to be removed from anyone's opinion, should never have been printed.
@@dudono1744 Yep. That's how the game works, Shi-en to 1 and Gateway to 0 worked pretty good over here in TCG. Maxx "C" was never necessary for either format.
I’m just not a fan of the new generation where you can get a full board in one turn. Older and slower yu gi oh was where it’s at. But I agree maxx c is broken
@@TheFrogOfDestiny pretty much every ygo format ever is going to have issue, blowout cards, sacky cards, pretty much ever meta have 1 or more arctype that is complete ass to fight against and so on, i find that you just need to play those format and evaluate for yourself.
the problem is the format would change. And let me explain why it is a problem. Currently in the tcg you play a deck, with ur archetype cards ofc and then literally 20 handtraps. It is absolutely shit to play the game. Why do we have to do that? Well thats because one card comboes are absolutely absurd (dark beckoning beast and ash for example). And thats why noone has fun, because everygame is just a brickfest until someone draws a good card. That was especially bad during snake eyes reign. HMMM IF ONLY THERE WAS A CARD THAT CAN SHUT DOWN COMBO DECKS MHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Then we wouldnt have to run 50 handtraps and could actually play the game.
@@bad_noob1221 then they will bring out the argument that Maxx C doesn’t make combo decks weaker, and even make it stronger since the “go first make board then pass turn draw phase Maxx C” play is so so prevalent, like that would be the thing that happens all the time.
@@elainasjournal5734 true which is why i am a big fan of the new maxx c's. Its a neccesary evil but wihtout being able to play it after establishing an own board
Maxx C only gives the player the possibility to draw the out, that's it. It doesn't stop anything. If you want to stop the player just play Droll or, if your deck allows it, Shifter which are cards that people hate. It doesn't help non-meta decks either. Time has proven that the only way these decks can compete is by getting new support.
Maybe Max C isn't the issue, but all the special summoning that feeds Max C. If Yu-Gi-Oh had a meta where a deck can run off a normal summon and pass over multiple turns instead of special summoning 50 times to create a board that kills your opponent turn 1 it wouldn't be an issue.
I argue that max c isn't bad in a vacuum. Ideally, it's meant to make sure you don't fall behind when your opponent decides a 20 card combo is appropriate on turn 1. I find it annoying, however, when it is run with other hand traps. The threat of Maxx c is the ability to pull outs to the opponent out of thin air. I feel like all you would need to do would be to errata that cards added to hand by this effect cannot be used this turn.
This whole issue of the game being a ramp-down system with ridiculous turn 1 wins is why most people I've spoken to have moved from Yugioh to Magic, where it's a ramp-up system. Magic while not perfect, is incredibly balanced compared to Yugioh
@@axon589 yeah I could see that. Personally my favorite decks are gimmicky at best and I don't run negates unless they're built into the archetype. I think the main thing that keeps magic in check is the resource system via lands.
If maxx c is a problem so is ash blossom call by the haunted nibiru and any other handtraps If combo decks are the only thing you're allowed to play this simply isnt yugioh anymore In my honest opinion? Ban structure decks that deck search or set/summon straught from the deck
My opinion is ban Maxx c, psy-framegear gamma and droll & lock bird. When it comes to ash and ghost belle change so that you can only activate their effect if you have no cards on your field. For d.d. crow so you must also remove a card from your own grave when you remove a card from your opponent's grave. This won't fix the game but will make it a bit more interesting to play.
I hate Maxx C. But its worth noting that there are some decks which play around it. Such as Floo. Or perhaps more creatively a deck like Dark World of Trickstar which could take the Maxx C challenge.
The Chaos ishizu deck that was running around pre-Tearlaments was also decking people out I believe. It’s unfortunate floo players won’t be able to escape the new mutchummy card coming. I wonder if TCG will ban it
Hello fren. The videos is about the masterduel format where Maxx C has been at 3 since the game’s release. Halq being banned doesn’t really impact anything in the presentation
if yugioh could just add the limit of movements a player can do all would be solved, including the fiendsh*t and ZZZZnakeeyezzzz and any other 10 minutes comboing stuff. cards arent bad, komoney is the one
At least none of my decklist play Maxx C, I hate the card because it is unfair compared to the other handtraps in the game, I prefer playing Rogue over meta anyways and I've never generated a copy of Maxx C or have it in Master Duel, If I had the card I would dismantle it immediately. Maxx C is the worse designed card in any card game, Maxx C is a card with no conditions that is a handtrap that gives the player to much advantage for playing it. The only real fix for Maxx C is if either player has 7 or more cards at the end of the turn, either of the players with that many cards need to discard until they have 6 cards in there hand. All the other handtraps have a condition to activate there effect. This is the reason Maxx C should be banned.
I am someone who made it to the Diamond rank on ps5 with decks that didn't utilize any of these cards and the one deck that I did use it in was a Spell/Trap deck and that thing was barely a factor in it. In that journey I came to realize that Master Duel is the worst way to play YGO.
its so OP, that it is format changing. And they like the non super wombo combo format in master duell. Like it or hate it but id take maxx c any day over f'ing snake eyes
Main reason it isn't banned in Master Duel is because it is free extra profit for Konami. Many players burn through alot of gems and money in Master Duel just to get the counters for Maxx C and that's why Konami is never banning it lmao.
I don't believe maxx c is that big a deal. The big problem i have is ftks and similar unfair strategies. I don't care what handtraps are in the game, i will not be satisfied until konomi returns to its goat format philosophy. Ftks are a cardinal sin and should be snuffed out and destroyed by any means necessary. Until then, I'll happily play three copies of maxx c.
Also it’s funny how you assume that “a normal game of Yugioh” always have to revolves around doing big monster combo and end the game in 3 turns. That’s just false. The game has more than just combo decks and stun decks. And Maxx C provides an incentive for people to pick up those decks that can do minimal, efficient plays (Vaalmonica can setup their whole board in just 2 ss, VS can summon Rock pass, etc.), so in fact, Maxx C encourages people to be creative with their deck choice. But why are people still playing the same combo decks atm? Because people aren’t forced to respect Maxx C since it doesn’t resolve enough. There are 3 Maxx C, but there are generally 6 copies of “negate Maxx C” cards in most decks. That’s not respecting Maxx C, that’s just putting in the negates for it and still play whatever bs combo decks you want. If Ash Blossom, Called By, and Crossout all don’t exist, people would have to respect Maxx C when they choose their deck. That’s probably why they made even more Maxx C cards like Multchummy.
This take is wild. I can’t even be mad at it anymore I just have to respect it. “Maxx C doesn’t resolve enough” is crazy. Also who said a normal game of YGO was always big monster combo? You don’t need a big monster combo to lose to Maxx C. You need to special summon like 3 times. Vanquish soul would still be good in a format without Maxx C as well. Maxx C as it exist now objectively does not encourage deck diversity by ensuring that most decks start with the same 9 cards. On this I cannot steel man your argument. You are just wrong. The “Maxx c doesn’t resolve enough” take could be a fun experiment. There are only a few decks that would be playable in a world without Maxx C counters. In a best case scenario maybe everyone starts playing floo, eldlich, Umi, etc and maybe people stopped putting Maxx C in every deck? It’s an interesting idea. But now we’ve just made most decks in the game unplayable. It doesn’t seem like a good solution.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny “deck diversity” does not means “decks shouldn’t have the same 9 cards”, especially when those are non-engines. Sure you can make the argument that those 9 cards are run in most decks, but what about the other 31+ cards, including engines? “Maxx C doesn’t resolve enough” is one of the points Joshua Schmidt brought up when he talked about Maxx C, it’s not even a wild take. In a world where you can’t have an easy way out when Maxx C is dropped on you, your deck has to be built with plans for that situation. All-gas-no-brakes combo decks as they stand right now just won’t be good enough in that environment.
Just because Josh says something doesn’t mean I can’t think it’s wild. This is the same guys who claims some tier 0 formats are good, something I strongly disagree with. The same cards everyone runs to negate Maxx C ARE the Maxx C backup plan. If you remove those and force decks to find new ones most decks won’t have any and will just die. If there is some generic strategy that allows you to survive Maxx C every deck will just be running those instead causing the same issue of everyone being forced to play the same 9 to 10 cards. Also yes running the same 9 cards does limit deck diversity because of all the decks that can’t even exist due to space issues. The same way there isn’t enough space to reasonably play live twin Runick sprightly in MasterDuel whilst including the Maxx C package. In all of these examples even in the best case scenario the entirety of the game is still being warped around a singular card. Something that I find fundamentally disgusting. All of deck building being warped around 1 card is something myself (and most of the ygo community) find repulsive. If that is the only way Maxx C can exist in this game then it shouldn’t be in the game. If you disagree with this then the two of us will simply never agree. I very much appreciate the different pov though
Not sure why you show an Ishizu card on there. Not sure why we are complaining about the millers in 2024. Honestly the toxic Ishizu cards from that deck were the shufflers. That 2022 Ishizu Tear format was one of the most skill-based formats the game has ever seen. Yes Maxx "C" is unfair. Everyone knows this. Another filler video I suppose. How do you feel about the Mulcharmy cards though. My biggest problem with Maxx "C" was that you can finish making your end board turn 1 and then fire it out during your opponent's turn. The Mulcharmy cards seem to remove that aspect of Maxx "C" out of their card design which I can appreciate.
Hello fren. In masterduel Ishizu cards released before Tear and they broke the game all on their own. They were decking people out turn 0 even if you didn’t Maxx C them. That slide seems to have confused some people so I guess that’s my bad. I wasn’t so much complaining about Ishizu cards as I was comparing them to Maxx C’s power level. I also am not a fan of tier 0 formats, but that’s a video for another day! I’m leaning towards not liking the more busted mulcharmy card that got announced. It has the potential to just be a turn skip. In a game with side-boarding I could see people just swapping in the entire Maxx C package and it basically being the same problem of limiting deckbuilding, winning the game on its own, etc.
@@TheFrogOfDestinythe new mulcharmy card however can only be used by the turn 2 player as it requires you to control no cards, really annoying still but avoids the incredibly shit situation of when someone does full combo then during your turn they get to drop maxx c for free.
Oh it’s definitely a better Maxx C, I just still think many times it will be an auto turn skip if it resolves. Great news for the OCG if Maxx C gets banned because of it. Horrible news for the TCG as they now have Maxx C jr. Since I play masterduel I suppose this should be good news for me but I really feel bad for TCG players
Yeah. It’s a game that was never intended to be played. It was just a villain of the week for Yugi in the manga that was randomly really popular. It is both the problem but also the appeal of the game in comparison to other card games. No other game is like it.
You don't need to play any Maxx C counters in Labrynth. You can easily just chill on the special summons playing that deck. I honestly don't think you really even need Maxx C that much either in Lab. Trust, just take all those cards out, you won't miss them.😅
Hello fren 🐸 I have a couple vids on my channel where I play no Maxx counters in Lab. I do it when I run the trap heavy version. Pre-big welcome it didn’t feel as bad but now it hurts. For the furniture build especially I find a well timed Maxx C will still wreck my shit. Can’t summon cooclock to field, can’t summon stove, hurts to summon lord at the end of turn to set a trap from deck, hurts to summon big lady off big welcome, It also makes your rip 2 from hand combo useless if they time it right. I admit Lab can survive better than most tho. You don’t immediately die, but often your opponent still gets pot of greed and sometimes goes +3 even. Every time I’ve taken out the Maxx counters I tilt and put them back in lol
Max c is the best card ever , and for all the haters out there ash blossom will never be banned. Stop complaing about hand traps and learn to play better!
Maxx C is arguably the strongest card ever. And no, it isn't because it draws 20 cards against combo. It's because it will likely draw 2 or more cards against any deck that isn't Spell/Trap centric (Floo doesn't count, they're basically designed around Maxx C). A draw 2 handtrap is completely ridiculous.
@@patescortez88 you're not gonna argue because theres nothing to argue about, and you know it. you say it gives decks a fighting chance? well I hate to be the barer of bad news, but it does the same thing for decks that dont need a fighting chance. weaker decks using maxx c doesnt stop the stronger decks from also using it, so it just because a game of who resolves maxx c first.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny a game where the 2nd player has less ways to combat the inherent advantage of the 1st player during the least interactive turn of the game is definitely a better game.
But do you understand that the going 1st player also has Maxx C? As an additional way to fuck over the going 2nd player? If we just take the card out of both players decks it doesn’t make things much worse for the going 2nd player because that is one less thing they are worrying about. Nibiru, Imperm, Ash, Kaiju, kurikara, evenly, TY-PHON, Zeus, there are better ways to balance the game for the going 2nd player.
@@elainasjournal5734 You can be maxx c'd going 2nd... Its just adds more variance. Coin toss. Did you Draw maxx c, did They draw maxx C, Did they draw a Maxx C out, Did you draw a maxx c out. It just makes games more sacky to have the illusion of "countering/ closing the 1st/2nd gap". It kills Skill expression, deck building, and cheap wins and losses for both players. How is this healthy?
@@andrewnguyen4801 it may add more variance sure, but kill skill expression and deckbuilding is just wrong. In the TCG where Maxx C is banned, Vanquish Soul was never a thing because it’s a lower ceiling deck that plays fine under Maxx C, meanwhile Unchained, another combo pile, was the best deck. And playing efficiently, using less special summon to make more impactful plays, is the skill expression for playing in a format with Maxx C. The default play when Maxx C is used isn’t “negate it or lose”, if that’s the only option you can think of then you’re just a bad player.
Trying to neutral here. Maxx C is bad for the game because 1) It literally forces almost everyone to play the cards to counter Maxx C as most meta decks will special summon a lot which equals to shit ton of card advantage 2) Based on logic of banning a card, if a card that can be played on yout turn without any cost to draw two cards is banned. Why a card that can be played on either player's turn that punishes special summoning and draw a card for each special summoning is not banned. Not to mention, special summoning is a huge part of Yu-Gi-Oh. Now we proceed to the other side of the debate Why Maxx C is fine for the game 1) You could just Maxx C challenge the opponent. For those non Master Duel players, Maxx C challenge is when you play Maxx C, you special summon as much as possible to deck out the opponent. In number terms, that would be special summon 35 times to deck out the opponent or make the opponent draw till he has 20 cards in hand and hand destruction to make his deck 0 cards. (Treating that opponent does not have ash blossom in his hand). Btw, some decks are very easy to Maxx challenge. If you say how about Nibiru hand trap, according to my experience in the game, most of the time, it is a one-off card or none. 2) There are deck to screw people up with Maxx C like Trickstar Lycoris. What she does is deal 200 LP burn damage for each card drawn. She can be special summoned by putting another Trickstar card back to the hand. If you got multiple copies, you can activate them simultaneously and summon all of them with just one Trickstar on field. Since her skill makes her special summon, that is one card drawn and that trigger 200LP damage for each copy of Lycoris. You can increase this damage by having cards like Trickstar Lightstage which deal another 200 LP burn when a Trickstar damages the opponent and Dark room of Nightmare which deal 300 LP burn for every burn damage. Math time One Lycoris summon (1 card draw) - 200 LP Trickstar Lightstage - 200 LP Dark room of Nightmare - 300 LP x 2 because Lightstage and Lycoris are separate burn damage That counts up to 1000 LP per card drawn per Lycoris. If you got multiple, that is a FTK. If you can special summon more stuff, that is another way to FTK. Sorry for long ass text. If those who can reach here, congratulations you do not have the attention span of an average Gen Z. (I am a Gen Z myself btw)
@@psychanthrope2636hand traps don’t fix the going first problem in the slightest. They only contribute to it. There’s also a plethora of board breakers and other good hand traps that 1 card (Ash Blossom) being gone forever isn’t going to hurt you. Ash Blossom provides too much value for its cost. It’s relevant for every deck and against every deck, is a turn-ending card (similarly to Maxx c) that has severely warped the game and its design philosophy since its inception, invalidates a good portion of engines/cards, and has nearly no counterplay against it given the lack of cards that can interact with effects that activate in the hand I’m 100% sure if Ash Blossom were to get either an errata or a Multchummy-esque card with a weaker effect to replace it, (like simply adding “if you control no cards”), the design of current archetypes would be so much better and healthier so that they’re not built with them in mind
Maxx C: Guys, stop coping and just accept the reality that Konami ain’t banning the roach. I’ve made peace with it. As for other handtraps…considering the state of the game right now. I see them as necessary evils because again Konami has no interest in balancing the game
@@TheFrogOfDestinyidk about you.. but I definitely do want ash banned 😭 half my combos get ruined by it and I don’t even have the card to use myself, people who use ash blossom are like paraplegic monkeys I have to wait on them for 10 minutes to decide whether or not they wanna use ash and when they finally do I just surrender cause I’m so tired of waiting
-wins the coin flip
-makes a board full of Omni negates
-turn change
-maxx c
Remember guys, combo decks would run out of control if they banned maxx c! [/sarcasm]
Ashblossom call by the haunted nibiru ra's ball lava golem almost any kashtira monster
Negate boards don't matter if you tribute their monsters
@@zytha2890 band-aid solution
I would genuinely rather scoop against a board that I can't break than watch a combo player set up, activate maxx c on my turn and then sit there trying to comprehend why Maxx c always seems to benefit the exact kind of playstyle that it's supposed to be a counter to.
Then it's just left down to the who drew their ash or called by. Wowee, such fun.
Like at least in the case that maxx c was banned, combo decks that are actually unbeatable would be addressed through problem cards on the banlist.
And people act like combo decks would be left unchecked but like, everyone could just run 3 nib and hand trap negation for cards that stop it from resolving.
Maxx "C" becomes a problem in high-level play whilst being abuseable as a turn 2 followup where everything is a special summon spam. That's why it does not get hit in the OCG because everyone plays Pet Decks around here in a relatively casual environment, and whose decks are weak to it are expected to tech cards to address it.
The double edged sword of generics.
Where it gives a leg up to anything that isn't meta. But meta will abuse and use the heck out of it.
My key memory with maxx c is when my friend decked out someone playing Exodia. This was synchro era, around quasar's release. My friend was playing fable quasar turbo, a deck that with a good starting hand can get out two copies of quasar, and his opponent was playing an Exodia variant I don't remember which. My friend starts to combo off and gets hit by maxx c. All right bet. exe, Exodia player ends up with 4/5 pieces and more than half his deck in hand, my friend then plays card destruction.
Just an FYI, no hate. U could play up to 60 cards in the deck actually. Just that having more than 40 would be less consistent draws compared to a 40-card deck
It would not necessarily even be less consistent. Theoretically, a 60 card deck could be just as consistent *if not more* than a 40 card deck.
@@danydady6851 Well that is if you say you use cards like the grass is greener and throw 14 cards into the GY.
Then all the GY effect can activate front there
I am saying if you just purely draw without searchers. It would be less consistent due to having more cards in the deck which equals a lower chance of drawing a spell card or hand trap that is usually unsearchable
@@pokefanxerneas5800 that's what I'm talking about as well. If you just add more of those unreachable cards you can make the 60 card deck just as consistent as a 40 card deck. No grass is greener required.
i dont see the issue. the main problem with yugioh is the special summon spam. ur given a choice to not perform a cancerous turn, or your opponent is hopefully given enough cards to comeback from the bs ur about to play
That’s the illusion of choice though. Regardless of if you pass turn or keep playing against a skilled opponent you’re just losing +90% of the time. Maxx C can also be used by the going 1st player AFTER they’ve already preformed their cancerous turn 1. For every game you will win with it going 2nd you will lose because of it going 1st. I appreciate the different pov fren
The problem is if you perform even 2 summon the opponent is already +1,
so for the vast majority of decks even if you try to put up any defense you are likely to give the opponent free resources to instakill you on their turn trough your weaker board
If you look at the meta of OCG (where Maxx C is legal) and TCG (where Maxx C is banned) you'll see that the decks played aren't too different. Maxx C does nothing but warp the entire game around whether it resolves or not. Hell, banning Maxx C sometimes frees up the 3 card spots that would normally be taken by Ash Blossom, because there are better options - that will never fucking happen as long as Maxx C is in the game.
If the idea was that giving rogue decks handtraps would level the playing field, then Konami failed horribly with cards like Maxx C and Ash Blossom. Not only that, meta decks adopted the handtraps anyway, so now the powercreep just compounds upon itself. Archetype specific support is good for longterm balance - handtraps and staples are not.
I don’t know if a world without handtraps is the best idea but it is interesting to see several comments wishing for it. Might be a future video idea. Like, imagine a full meta deck combining off with no handtraps to stop them. I feel like no handtraps would help meta more than it would hurt rogue.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny Removing all handtraps would be horrible at first, but if Konami consistently made archetype support and banned problem cards, I believe eventually it could level out. It would require Konami to slow down on new archetypes and focus on what they already have in the game. When tournament numbers show a widespread of decks being played, and no real certainty about the best deck - that would be an indicator the meta is doing well.
I think that semi generic support (i.e. type specific support) is under used. This allows variety while not needing to make hundreds of cards if Konami chose to give every deck a new "type" of card (i.e. give everyone a card like Havnis). Sure, such an approach might leave a few decks behind because of archetypal gimmicks, but that won't be much and then giving archetypal support is doable.
@@dudono1744 That definitely works too. In the case of Insects and Fish, Konami hasn't made anything game breaking that has helped them in generic support. Unfortunately, the game most players want is far different than the one Konami wants.
@@grayfox6518 But the issue becomes, Konami has to think of every new card, or FTKS or decks like Snake eyes will see occur over and over ,
another TCG dood complaining about maxx c
Something to note, live twin spright was agreed upon to be the best version of live twin was live twin spright even before joshs win, live twin inherently synergises too well with spright since its a lot of lvl2 monsters that lack power in some ways but have good consistency and spright provides that power.
Also josh is known for playing runick on everything, which is why he player live twin runick spright lmao :p, hopefully maxx c and ash blossom get banned one day, a man can cope.
ash ban would make going 2nd turn absolutely impossible tho. Unless you run 50 boardbreaks. But even then its ass
This video is a oerfect example of how bad balance ruins the game and takes a way the freedom ti have fun, build kore decks, and actually play the game.
People that don't understand will say: 'Just play without it if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play Maxx "C" or the cards that beat it.' 'Don't let Maxx "C" stop you from enjoying the game.' 'It's just a card' like, Maxx "C" should have never been printed.
Maxx C was kinda needed on release to counter Six Samurai that terrorized the OCG, also back then holding combo for 1 turn was a viable option.
@@dudono1744 weird how a TCG exclusive was "Needed" to counter something that was a menace in a format that it wasn't originally printed for or in. No, Maxx "C" was never "Needed" and any further expression of that thought needs to be removed from anyone's opinion, should never have been printed.
@@bchavez149 Well, I guess Konami could just have banned Six Sam.
@@dudono1744 Yep. That's how the game works, Shi-en to 1 and Gateway to 0 worked pretty good over here in TCG. Maxx "C" was never necessary for either format.
@@bchavez149 And they are making a new one
I’m just not a fan of the new generation where you can get a full board in one turn. Older and slower yu gi oh was where it’s at. But I agree maxx c is broken
I find the older formats upsetting for their own reason. Mirror force, snatch steal, but the older formats certainly have a place in my heart
@@TheFrogOfDestiny pretty much every ygo format ever is going to have issue, blowout cards, sacky cards, pretty much ever meta have 1 or more arctype that is complete ass to fight against and so on, i find that you just need to play those format and evaluate for yourself.
i miss edison
the problem is the format would change. And let me explain why it is a problem. Currently in the tcg you play a deck, with ur archetype cards ofc and then literally 20 handtraps. It is absolutely shit to play the game. Why do we have to do that? Well thats because one card comboes are absolutely absurd (dark beckoning beast and ash for example). And thats why noone has fun, because everygame is just a brickfest until someone draws a good card. That was especially bad during snake eyes reign. HMMM IF ONLY THERE WAS A CARD THAT CAN SHUT DOWN COMBO DECKS MHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Then we wouldnt have to run 50 handtraps and could actually play the game.
@@bad_noob1221 then they will bring out the argument that Maxx C doesn’t make combo decks weaker, and even make it stronger since the “go first make board then pass turn draw phase Maxx C” play is so so prevalent, like that would be the thing that happens all the time.
@@elainasjournal5734 true which is why i am a big fan of the new maxx c's. Its a neccesary evil but wihtout being able to play it after establishing an own board
@@bad_noob1221The new ones fix the common complaints about Maxx C. Also they are adorable.
@@dudono1744 yes and i really like the new cards. we need maxx c but second turn maxx c is an insta win
Maxx C only gives the player the possibility to draw the out, that's it.
It doesn't stop anything.
If you want to stop the player just play Droll or, if your deck allows it, Shifter which are cards that people hate.
It doesn't help non-meta decks either.
Time has proven that the only way these decks can compete is by getting new support.
You can draw droll or shifter
Maybe Max C isn't the issue, but all the special summoning that feeds Max C. If Yu-Gi-Oh had a meta where a deck can run off a normal summon and pass over multiple turns instead of special summoning 50 times to create a board that kills your opponent turn 1 it wouldn't be an issue.
I argue that max c isn't bad in a vacuum. Ideally, it's meant to make sure you don't fall behind when your opponent decides a 20 card combo is appropriate on turn 1.
I find it annoying, however, when it is run with other hand traps. The threat of Maxx c is the ability to pull outs to the opponent out of thin air.
I feel like all you would need to do would be to errata that cards added to hand by this effect cannot be used this turn.
This whole issue of the game being a ramp-down system with ridiculous turn 1 wins is why most people I've spoken to have moved from Yugioh to Magic, where it's a ramp-up system. Magic while not perfect, is incredibly balanced compared to Yugioh
@@axon589 yeah I could see that. Personally my favorite decks are gimmicky at best and I don't run negates unless they're built into the archetype.
I think the main thing that keeps magic in check is the resource system via lands.
If maxx c is a problem so is ash blossom call by the haunted nibiru and any other handtraps
If combo decks are the only thing you're allowed to play this simply isnt yugioh anymore
In my honest opinion? Ban structure decks that deck search or set/summon straught from the deck
My opinion is ban Maxx c, psy-framegear gamma and droll & lock bird. When it comes to ash and ghost belle change so that you can only activate their effect if you have no cards on your field. For d.d. crow so you must also remove a card from your own grave when you remove a card from your opponent's grave. This won't fix the game but will make it a bit more interesting to play.
The real question about Gamma is why the other psyframes aren't used. Stopping a Spell seems powerful.
I hate Maxx C. But its worth noting that there are some decks which play around it. Such as Floo. Or perhaps more creatively a deck like Dark World of Trickstar which could take the Maxx C challenge.
The Chaos ishizu deck that was running around pre-Tearlaments was also decking people out I believe. It’s unfortunate floo players won’t be able to escape the new mutchummy card coming. I wonder if TCG will ban it
@@TheFrogOfDestiny .Maxx C is banned, and has been banned in the TCG since 2018
Crystron Halq is also banned
Hello fren. The videos is about the masterduel format where Maxx C has been at 3 since the game’s release. Halq being banned doesn’t really impact anything in the presentation
Floo is literally designed to nope Maxx C.
If this happens first turn will be like 6 negates scoop lol. You guys are insane
You dont play teppen but ill throw in that its probably worse than living death and jedah from teppen.
Ain’t no way this is coming from a Labrynth player 💀
Here lies bros entire argument ⚰️
11:24 14:16
I swear max c is the stupidest card ever printed
It doesnt even stop the combo players its supposed to stop beacouse combo players can run max c too💀
Bro made a PowerPoint
if yugioh could just add the limit of movements a player can do all would be solved, including the fiendsh*t and ZZZZnakeeyezzzz and any other 10 minutes comboing stuff. cards arent bad, komoney is the one
At least none of my decklist play Maxx C, I hate the card because it is unfair compared to the other handtraps in the game, I prefer playing Rogue over meta anyways and I've never generated a copy of Maxx C or have it in Master Duel, If I had the card I would dismantle it immediately. Maxx C is the worse designed card in any card game, Maxx C is a card with no conditions that is a handtrap that gives the player to much advantage for playing it. The only real fix for Maxx C is if either player has 7 or more cards at the end of the turn, either of the players with that many cards need to discard until they have 6 cards in there hand. All the other handtraps have a condition to activate there effect. This is the reason Maxx C should be banned.
I am someone who made it to the Diamond rank on ps5 with decks that didn't utilize any of these cards and the one deck that I did use it in was a Spell/Trap deck and that thing was barely a factor in it. In that journey I came to realize that Master Duel is the worst way to play YGO.
How in the world is it still not banned? Maxx c is the only thing more annoying than ash blossom
its so OP, that it is format changing. And they like the non super wombo combo format in master duell. Like it or hate it but id take maxx c any day over f'ing snake eyes
Main reason it isn't banned in Master Duel is because it is free extra profit for Konami. Many players burn through alot of gems and money in Master Duel just to get the counters for Maxx C and that's why Konami is never banning it lmao.
I don't believe maxx c is that big a deal. The big problem i have is ftks and similar unfair strategies. I don't care what handtraps are in the game, i will not be satisfied until konomi returns to its goat format philosophy. Ftks are a cardinal sin and should be snuffed out and destroyed by any means necessary. Until then, I'll happily play three copies of maxx c.
Nah Max c just ain’t that bad.
1:20
I got to much ptsd from this card
Max c 2 is coming 😂
I'll be a contrarian and say it should go tob3
And you though Maxx C will be banned at some point NO we bring another Maxx C in form of Mulcharmy Fuwaross i quit yu-gi-oh no joke
This video has old-school Farfa vibes. Love it.
Also it’s funny how you assume that “a normal game of Yugioh” always have to revolves around doing big monster combo and end the game in 3 turns. That’s just false. The game has more than just combo decks and stun decks. And Maxx C provides an incentive for people to pick up those decks that can do minimal, efficient plays (Vaalmonica can setup their whole board in just 2 ss, VS can summon Rock pass, etc.), so in fact, Maxx C encourages people to be creative with their deck choice.
But why are people still playing the same combo decks atm? Because people aren’t forced to respect Maxx C since it doesn’t resolve enough. There are 3 Maxx C, but there are generally 6 copies of “negate Maxx C” cards in most decks. That’s not respecting Maxx C, that’s just putting in the negates for it and still play whatever bs combo decks you want. If Ash Blossom, Called By, and Crossout all don’t exist, people would have to respect Maxx C when they choose their deck. That’s probably why they made even more Maxx C cards like Multchummy.
This take is wild. I can’t even be mad at it anymore I just have to respect it. “Maxx C doesn’t resolve enough” is crazy. Also who said a normal game of YGO was always big monster combo? You don’t need a big monster combo to lose to Maxx C. You need to special summon like 3 times. Vanquish soul would still be good in a format without Maxx C as well.
Maxx C as it exist now objectively does not encourage deck diversity by ensuring that most decks start with the same 9 cards. On this I cannot steel man your argument. You are just wrong.
The “Maxx c doesn’t resolve enough” take could be a fun experiment. There are only a few decks that would be playable in a world without Maxx C counters. In a best case scenario maybe everyone starts playing floo, eldlich, Umi, etc and maybe people stopped putting Maxx C in every deck? It’s an interesting idea. But now we’ve just made most decks in the game unplayable. It doesn’t seem like a good solution.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny “deck diversity” does not means “decks shouldn’t have the same 9 cards”, especially when those are non-engines. Sure you can make the argument that those 9 cards are run in most decks, but what about the other 31+ cards, including engines?
“Maxx C doesn’t resolve enough” is one of the points Joshua Schmidt brought up when he talked about Maxx C, it’s not even a wild take. In a world where you can’t have an easy way out when Maxx C is dropped on you, your deck has to be built with plans for that situation. All-gas-no-brakes combo decks as they stand right now just won’t be good enough in that environment.
Just because Josh says something doesn’t mean I can’t think it’s wild. This is the same guys who claims some tier 0 formats are good, something I strongly disagree with. The same cards everyone runs to negate Maxx C ARE the Maxx C backup plan. If you remove those and force decks to find new ones most decks won’t have any and will just die. If there is some generic strategy that allows you to survive Maxx C every deck will just be running those instead causing the same issue of everyone being forced to play the same 9 to 10 cards.
Also yes running the same 9 cards does limit deck diversity because of all the decks that can’t even exist due to space issues. The same way there isn’t enough space to reasonably play live twin Runick sprightly in MasterDuel whilst including the Maxx C package.
In all of these examples even in the best case scenario the entirety of the game is still being warped around a singular card. Something that I find fundamentally disgusting. All of deck building being warped around 1 card is something myself (and most of the ygo community) find repulsive. If that is the only way Maxx C can exist in this game then it shouldn’t be in the game. If you disagree with this then the two of us will simply never agree. I very much appreciate the different pov though
@@TheFrogOfDestiny Tear format was good, if you were playing tear because the counter play was highly interactive
Not sure why you show an Ishizu card on there. Not sure why we are complaining about the millers in 2024. Honestly the toxic Ishizu cards from that deck were the shufflers. That 2022 Ishizu Tear format was one of the most skill-based formats the game has ever seen.
Yes Maxx "C" is unfair. Everyone knows this. Another filler video I suppose. How do you feel about the Mulcharmy cards though. My biggest problem with Maxx "C" was that you can finish making your end board turn 1 and then fire it out during your opponent's turn. The Mulcharmy cards seem to remove that aspect of Maxx "C" out of their card design which I can appreciate.
Hello fren. In masterduel Ishizu cards released before Tear and they broke the game all on their own. They were decking people out turn 0 even if you didn’t Maxx C them. That slide seems to have confused some people so I guess that’s my bad. I wasn’t so much complaining about Ishizu cards as I was comparing them to Maxx C’s power level. I also am not a fan of tier 0 formats, but that’s a video for another day!
I’m leaning towards not liking the more busted mulcharmy card that got announced. It has the potential to just be a turn skip. In a game with side-boarding I could see people just swapping in the entire Maxx C package and it basically being the same problem of limiting deckbuilding, winning the game on its own, etc.
@@TheFrogOfDestinythe new mulcharmy card however can only be used by the turn 2 player as it requires you to control no cards, really annoying still but avoids the incredibly shit situation of when someone does full combo then during your turn they get to drop maxx c for free.
Oh it’s definitely a better Maxx C, I just still think many times it will be an auto turn skip if it resolves. Great news for the OCG if Maxx C gets banned because of it. Horrible news for the TCG as they now have Maxx C jr. Since I play masterduel I suppose this should be good news for me but I really feel bad for TCG players
@@TheFrogOfDestiny since maxx c is banned in the tcg if the new one is bad enough i think the TCG will get rid of it quickly.
So its ok to print a 1 card combo then ban the cards that somehow keep them in check, thats why all the video of yugioh tcg is about yugioh is doomed
Maxx c doesn’t keep combo decks in check
@@watcher2624 my fault, what i mean is somehow, not totally being checked
To me, it seems Yugioh itself is the problem. Game design was trash from the start.
Yeah. It’s a game that was never intended to be played. It was just a villain of the week for Yugi in the manga that was randomly really popular. It is both the problem but also the appeal of the game in comparison to other card games. No other game is like it.
What do u consider to be good design?
@@kevinlee5753 a fun video idea for another day
Bingo.
@@TheFrogOfDestinySo what you’re saying is…Yugioh was a mistake? 😅
You don't need to play any Maxx C counters in Labrynth. You can easily just chill on the special summons playing that deck. I honestly don't think you really even need Maxx C that much either in Lab. Trust, just take all those cards out, you won't miss them.😅
Hello fren 🐸
I have a couple vids on my channel where I play no Maxx counters in Lab. I do it when I run the trap heavy version. Pre-big welcome it didn’t feel as bad but now it hurts. For the furniture build especially I find a well timed Maxx C will still wreck my shit. Can’t summon cooclock to field, can’t summon stove, hurts to summon lord at the end of turn to set a trap from deck, hurts to summon big lady off big welcome, It also makes your rip 2 from hand combo useless if they time it right. I admit Lab can survive better than most tho. You don’t immediately die, but often your opponent still gets pot of greed and sometimes goes +3 even. Every time I’ve taken out the Maxx counters I tilt and put them back in lol
Max c is the best card ever , and for all the haters out there ash blossom will never be banned. Stop complaing about hand traps and learn to play better!
Maxx C is arguably the strongest card ever. And no, it isn't because it draws 20 cards against combo. It's because it will likely draw 2 or more cards against any deck that isn't Spell/Trap centric (Floo doesn't count, they're basically designed around Maxx C).
A draw 2 handtrap is completely ridiculous.
Right bann maxx c and you can forget wining going second
If your deck can’t function going second without having 10+ cards in hand, that’s a deck problem and not a going second problem.
@HalozillaEX smh I'm not even going to argue. There is a reason maxx c is here to give decks a fighting chance but I'm done
@@patescortez88 you're not gonna argue because theres nothing to argue about, and you know it.
you say it gives decks a fighting chance? well I hate to be the barer of bad news, but it does the same thing for decks that dont need a fighting chance.
weaker decks using maxx c doesnt stop the stronger decks from also using it, so it just because a game of who resolves maxx c first.
It’s funny how you can look at how much value 1-2 cards can make and then decide that Maxx C is the problem
Maxx C is “a problem” not “the problem”. Banning Maxx C wouldn’t magically fix everything wrong with the game. It would just make it much better.
@@TheFrogOfDestiny a game where the 2nd player has less ways to combat the inherent advantage of the 1st player during the least interactive turn of the game is definitely a better game.
But do you understand that the going 1st player also has Maxx C? As an additional way to fuck over the going 2nd player? If we just take the card out of both players decks it doesn’t make things much worse for the going 2nd player because that is one less thing they are worrying about. Nibiru, Imperm, Ash, Kaiju, kurikara, evenly, TY-PHON, Zeus, there are better ways to balance the game for the going 2nd player.
@@elainasjournal5734 You can be maxx c'd going 2nd... Its just adds more variance. Coin toss. Did you Draw maxx c, did They draw maxx C, Did they draw a Maxx C out, Did you draw a maxx c out. It just makes games more sacky to have the illusion of "countering/ closing the 1st/2nd gap". It kills Skill expression, deck building, and cheap wins and losses for both players. How is this healthy?
@@andrewnguyen4801 it may add more variance sure, but kill skill expression and deckbuilding is just wrong. In the TCG where Maxx C is banned, Vanquish Soul was never a thing because it’s a lower ceiling deck that plays fine under Maxx C, meanwhile Unchained, another combo pile, was the best deck. And playing efficiently, using less special summon to make more impactful plays, is the skill expression for playing in a format with Maxx C. The default play when Maxx C is used isn’t “negate it or lose”, if that’s the only option you can think of then you’re just a bad player.
There is a casual mode.
Truly a video from an ignorant person that
a) does not play the game
b) has JUST started playing the game
and the comment section just shows
Brother I remember when xyz cards were new. I was playing Dueling NEWTWORK. Not dueling book, that wasn’t a thing yet, dueling NETWORK.
Trying to neutral here.
Maxx C is bad for the game because
1) It literally forces almost everyone to play the cards to counter Maxx C as most meta decks will special summon a lot which equals to shit ton of card advantage
2) Based on logic of banning a card, if a card that can be played on yout turn without any cost to draw two cards is banned.
Why a card that can be played on either player's turn that punishes special summoning and draw a card for each special summoning is not banned.
Not to mention, special summoning is a huge part of Yu-Gi-Oh.
Now we proceed to the other side of the debate
Why Maxx C is fine for the game
1) You could just Maxx C challenge the opponent. For those non Master Duel players, Maxx C challenge is when you play Maxx C, you special summon as much as possible to deck out the opponent.
In number terms, that would be special summon 35 times to deck out the opponent or make the opponent draw till he has 20 cards in hand and hand destruction to make his deck 0 cards. (Treating that opponent does not have ash blossom in his hand).
Btw, some decks are very easy to Maxx challenge. If you say how about Nibiru hand trap, according to my experience in the game, most of the time, it is a one-off card or none.
2) There are deck to screw people up with Maxx C like Trickstar Lycoris. What she does is deal 200 LP burn damage for each card drawn. She can be special summoned by putting another Trickstar card back to the hand. If you got multiple copies, you can activate them simultaneously and summon all of them with just one Trickstar on field.
Since her skill makes her special summon, that is one card drawn and that trigger 200LP damage for each copy of Lycoris. You can increase this damage by having cards like Trickstar Lightstage which deal another 200 LP burn when a Trickstar damages the opponent and Dark room of Nightmare which deal 300 LP burn for every burn damage.
Math time
One Lycoris summon (1 card draw) - 200 LP
Trickstar Lightstage
- 200 LP
Dark room of Nightmare
- 300 LP x 2 because Lightstage and Lycoris are separate burn damage
That counts up to 1000 LP per card drawn per Lycoris. If you got multiple, that is a FTK. If you can special summon more stuff, that is another way to FTK.
Sorry for long ass text. If those who can reach here, congratulations you do not have the attention span of an average Gen Z. (I am a Gen Z myself btw)
lol, it's fine. The problem is the state of the game.
If konami bans maxx c and ash blossom, I would be very happy.
Yeah just ban all the hand traps so we can just flip a coin for who wins first turn.
Banning Ash is a monkey’s paw wish. Trust me fren you don’t want Ash banned.
@@psychanthrope2636hand traps don’t fix the going first problem in the slightest. They only contribute to it. There’s also a plethora of board breakers and other good hand traps that 1 card (Ash Blossom) being gone forever isn’t going to hurt you.
Ash Blossom provides too much value for its cost. It’s relevant for every deck and against every deck, is a turn-ending card (similarly to Maxx c) that has severely warped the game and its design philosophy since its inception, invalidates a good portion of engines/cards, and has nearly no counterplay against it given the lack of cards that can interact with effects that activate in the hand
I’m 100% sure if Ash Blossom were to get either an errata or a Multchummy-esque card with a weaker effect to replace it, (like simply adding “if you control no cards”), the design of current archetypes would be so much better and healthier so that they’re not built with them in mind
Maxx C: Guys, stop coping and just accept the reality that Konami ain’t banning the roach. I’ve made peace with it.
As for other handtraps…considering the state of the game right now. I see them as necessary evils because again Konami has no interest in balancing the game
@@TheFrogOfDestinyidk about you.. but I definitely do want ash banned 😭 half my combos get ruined by it and I don’t even have the card to use myself, people who use ash blossom are like paraplegic monkeys I have to wait on them for 10 minutes to decide whether or not they wanna use ash and when they finally do I just surrender cause I’m so tired of waiting
Dont like Maxx C? Just play TCG. But nooooo, loser haters need to complain. 😂 pathetic
…….I don’t have TCG money or time? Masterduel is what got me back into ygo and is why I still play the game. Brain dead take.
@@TheFrogOfDestinySame here.
@@TheFrogOfDestinyTouche