I've been saying for almost 8 years, let players rent decks! This will bring a lot of people, make events more accessible and let people try out decks without sinking a thousand dollars into one.
Plus, at official events, players damaging cards is a non issue. Wotc can just print "tornament issue" decks, put a different back and a lower quality print on it, sell it valud for one event only.
The cost is really the big one. Make cards more accessible so people aren't having to spend $1000 on a deck and travel costs don't seem as unreasonable
@@jonathangitter1311 Except it kinda is. "Chronicles" shook the confidence of collectors and stores. So Wizards made the reserve list to help restore that confidence
The big thing is that Hasbro/WOTC is no longer subsidizing the cost of running Competitive Play, which places the onus of these events wholly on event organizers who predictably pass the cost on to customers in order to retain their profits. If Wizards cares about Comp Magic events, they need to be prepared to open up the bank book, or the events will die. Obviously, in this case, WOTC would need to announce 'Hey, we are giving the organizers money so that the cost to attend is cheaper' so that the organizers are strongarmed to actually give fair pricing. This of course, assumes that 'keep the people who give you money happy' is a virtue in WotC's mind, which their track records indicates it isn't.
I think thw problem is Hasbro is forcing wizards away from the competitive card game model and are kind of pushing magic into more of a collectible card model via university unbound, fancy card art ect. They are making mtg more like baseball cards. So I don't think they have any interest in supporting the game as a competitive game unfortunately.
also you would need to justify the investment. Competitive magic needs to be something people running the events make some profit out of it. If most magic players actually vibe towards the casual side, it becomes harder for it to go well.
@@adenthepoet6910 they just aren’t as appealing as they once were but I would argue that goes for almost anything that has a relatively competitive vibe or set up. It’s too sweaty.
Yes, should be. I like local FNMs bc the price of entry functionally pays for a pack of cards, and if you rank at least average, you get your money's worth...if you do well, you get double or more. I've gotten a fat pack as a prize bc of how many ppl were there. AND....just chillin with the nerds was fun. Plus, I can get more from my cards value by trading there too. Instead of the 30-50% value of selling them to the card shop itself. Better to get the cards I want by trading full value.
I get pissed off after playing too much online and get bored of it. I never get upset with paper magic and in general, enjoy it more. Still can get burnout, especially when getting extremely close to prizing. But competitive paper magic just hits differently than anything online could produce
As a warhammer player and magic player magic just is not as engaging or rewarding for 8-9 hours at a time. With warhammer there’s a back and fourth and also a gameplay that goes alongside your list. I never tried online but it’s something I wanna do for limited since that format I’ve seen to be my niche after trying out pioneer
That sounds about the same. Plans that run along different deck lists and a back and forth ensues, in constructive play, with sideboarding and different ways of play to handle different decks/ player types.
The 2 days I spent at an NRG I enjoyed the entire experience. I was definitely exhausted before the end of it and I didn't even do well but I had fun and went to go visit people anyways so it was a great time. I do understand those that don't want to deal with the scene tho. It's a lot of work to go to even 1 event and I think MTGO tournamentsis the perfect place for people who can't afford to go
I never understood the people going to big tournaments for the prices. I go there to meet people i only meet in real life on those events. If course i try and sometimes do get money out of it. But the reason is the gathering part of magic. And i think with the magiccon concept where everyone can play as sideevent whatever his gusto is in addition to a big event. They are onto something good. If course every fee should be lower. You should be able to rent cards/proxy for sth like legacy events. Etc
As a paper player, the only reason I like online play is for vintage draft. The chance to play with cards that otherwise I wouldn't be able to. To hell with online and online events. Bring back Minor League play from Star City Games and even TCGplayer. And if we are continuing to do serialized cards, do away with the reserve list, LotR showed us you can print cards with value at the reserve list level, now do away with it.
@@iankane3732 I fully agree, however since I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on reserve list cards, I'm building a cube for my local store without reserve list cards. Is it as fun and crazy? No, but is it still fun? absolutely. Cube and commander are my priorities and I'll build modern later. Last thing I'm worrying about is "pioneer" (it's extended, let's be real) and to hell with standard.
@@JeffreyWilliams-qv5kplol, Pioneer is not Extended. It's cool if you don't like it, but it's got TWELVE years worth of a card pool. Extended was NEVER that big. 😂
a few things i have in mind Leveled Ladder - A deck power level that has players moving through different competitive ladders based on the total cost of deck and the whole decks power level This puts decks of a level with those equal to them. If you win more in your power level it moves to the next power level where you'd be at a slight disadvantage. Have all of the players victories and losses calculated to make a top 16 players within the leaderboard Prizes for anyone 11th place and below is a card worth at least $25 10th and up gets a $50 prepaid card as well as the mtg card. 5th and up gets a $100 prepaid card the mtg card 1st gets a prize pool of something like $1k-$2k Or allow players to play at their own pace with it and have a website made that tracks mtg games and wins and losses games must be recorded either by video or a series of images taken at the end of each turn So that the record can be validated by event staff Decks would be uploaded so that players can see what deck they are running. Make proxies legal to play in MTG lowing the price to level making the game events overall more inviting to new players
This is an old post so I am unsure if others will see it, but Cockatrice has been my go to place for MtG and my play group. We just treat it like game night and its a blast!
the FGC has been struggling with this in recent years. what we have done Is makeing events closer to cons, tons of side brackets, vendors, and giving events themes. ie. CEO has top 8 in a boxing ring
Maybe a balance? More local events that count and shorten it to be more akin to a Friday night feel? Even when I could justify the time or somehow travel as a younger man, I didn’t. Hours of grind for multiple days seemed unfun and unnecessarily repetitive.
It's a simple 3 step process. 1 Allow Proxies with rulings for legibility established to prevent unreadable or offensive proxies. 2 Stop helping the tertiary market Balloon card prices by getting rid of the reserved list and stop setting product prices based on assumed resale 3 Provide actual play incentives. Don't rely on LGSs to promote play, and start giving them prize resources that don't cost them an arm and a leg. 1 will bring in newer and less affluent players 2 will help established players expand their collections and synergizes with 1 to protect cards that retain some value since we could just play the proxy til it's a crumpled mess without damage to the collectable piece 3 takes the pressure of tourneys off of game stores and makes it WotCs responsibility to make events worthwhile for ALL comp players
The issue is that WotC doesn't really care about the the competitive scene all that much. Hasbro has been beating them to get every cent out of them and the last thing they want to do is give away money for prize support. With that being said, an option that could be good would be a tiered payout based on how many rounds you win. So split the payout and use half to payout like normal. Then take the other half to use for prize support for everyone else. Like get a pack (or something) for each round you win. That way people would play the entire event instead of just dropping when they x-3.
I justify more as a vacation experience, it takes the pressure off. Hotel in a big city, explore restaurants, meet up eith friends, go BS people at the bar.
Yes, if the prize money is not good, then at least give good bling promos of powerful cards. And they have to be 60cards viable. Look at One Piece TCG. Tournament grinders in my country have basically all switched to one piece because even the weekly lgs tourney winner promo cards are worth big $$.
If the event doesn't have the craziest packed panels and side events, i could never in my life justify going to any of them. To enter only to play in the most competitive setting in person is WAY too expensive even just for entry unless i had the most vicious of drive to be a paper magic donjuan
When I compare it to "normal sports" (something like swimming, track&field or judo) most people pay everything out of their pockets until there is enough audience for sponsors. I never heard that athletes ask for value from the olympic committee. And since competitive Magic has nearly no adversiting reach towards non magic players and most casuals, I think dumping resources in it is not so easy to justify.
Well, they could use the likely warehouses full of unsold 30th anniversary stuff to extend the prize pool to the top 100. Not really just the 30th stuff but it's an easy horse to kick. They could use any of their unsold or undersold sets to extend prize packages. Make it more worthwhile for players that can't spend $20-30 k on the most optimized meta decks needed to hit top 16. Be well
Never been to a large competative event, but i do know magic players. Offer special promo art versions of mid tier commander staples as participation prizes. Or gold bordered shit that isnt ”allowed” to be reprinted, like duel lands. Them wales are gonna arrive in drowes.
1. allow proxies 2. LOWER POWER CREEP, some will happen, but it gets ridiculous. 3. consider online alternatives with free access to the entire roster of legal cards for entrents.
i think more crossover between paper and online. like boosters giving arena codes, or arena tournaments with paper prizes. i think it would bring interest and help increase interest in both
Wizards doesn't do shit tbh As long as you keep buying product every release? They don't care how much you enjoy the events. You're spending the money anyways. Things unfortunately, have to get worse, before they get better. People have to begin stopping the whaling of products, which just won't happen as far as I see.
What I think would benefit mtg events which I noticed with fg events is have multiple events in the same building which will make hoing to the events more entertaining and benefit more. As well as improving the prize and entry rewards thats def a necessity maybe like if you sign for all the tournaments in that building for $100 u get a booster box for sounds like a good trade
That’s the reason there is causal magic. This mindset is like asking the NFL or NBA to made more accessible. If you aren’t willing to put in the time, hours and money to play competitive magic. Then play casually or host your own in house tournaments. Asking them to “lower the entry requirements” isn’t going to make competitive magic better. It is the highest level of play and players. It’s set that way so that not just anyone with any deck can play in it. Imagine a pro tour player going to their local regions competitive scene and playing against people who just barely know magic but were able to get into the event because they lowered the cost of entry and make it more accessible to newer players. Is that really fair? Why punish the professionals just for the sake of a few causals? Dumb af
What is even worse is that I don't have friends and my only chance to play is at tournaments and i'm too poor to get the good enough deck to have fun with it
What if people paid slightly higher flat rates for entry, submitted deck lists and Wizards supplied them to "rent" for the event, if you have your own deck well then that's just swell but not necessary to play. It makes it 100% about actually playing the game and not about having more money than your opponents in some cases.
I've moved away from tournaments when I zeen it was basically the same 4 ppl coming out on top who'd spend anywhere from 3 to 500 dollars on each new set release. I just lost interest in the game, id do a draft if it could mean that we'd all have to build a deck on the spot. It's a game and seeing ppl spend 500 on new sets day of release got old.
This is a hot take guys…. Competitive magic is… competitive. You don’t HAVE to play it. You can play in FNMs. It’s not going to be accessible to everyone. I GUARANTEE if you went 0-3 you didn’t practice nearly enough and don’t know the meta. When I was in university and practicing for my regionals (which fed into nationals) I was practicing my deck online for 4 hours a day. Every day - and I made top 12. THIS is what it takes. People just don’t realize it
As a semi-avid arena player(sold out of paper for financial reasons). I still find arena having rules/game state issues where something should happen but doesn't
Unfortunately Proxying cards is not a viable business model for wizards of the coast. While competitive magic isn’t for everyone, the long days at tournaments are a key part of the experience and most tournaments have similar structures. The cost is problematic compared to the prizing which has to be increased across the board by wizards realizing that thinks like the pro tour are essential for success and value of the game as a whole.
Its interesting cuz im hearing similar complaints from the yugioh community. It sounds like late stage competitive tcgs struggle unless it goes completely smooth. I wonder if other late stage tcgs like pokemon or vanguard are having similar issues.
I will always allow people i play with to say "hey, hope you don't mind but i got some proxies in the deck" I personally see it as no big issue, but then again I dont play competitive mtg and probably never will take this game that seriously
I think there are 3 things that Wizards needs to do in order to help out. First, support all existing formats. Maybe you have an event if each type in major cities. From Pauper to Vintage, allow us to choose what we want to play and where. Second, rework the Reserved List. Just allowing reprints for major anniversaries would go a long way toward allowing legacy and vintage to be approachable by the average player. Reprinted on every 10th anniversary with the occasional Judge Promo would be nice. Third, cultivate a junior league. Not everyone wants to be a Pro Tour player, but giving us the option to play in a more casual format along side the pros would be nice.
I wanted to get back into standard and saw that because of bloomburrow being so tribal based Cavern of Souls is back to almost $40 a copy 😔 considering how many times it has been printed I was shocked but then again they did up it to mythic for every reprint because WOTC sucks. Cards do have to have value for people to want to crack packs and win them as prizes but I am 100% in agreement with everyone that says mana bases should always be affordable
Switching to Digital fixes almost every issue: -no Traveling costs -low deck costs -no cheating -much easier to follow (although It would be appreciated if they got a Spectator more and didn't resort to discord)
If i didnt have to pay $1000 for a comp deck the cost of everything else wouldnt hurt as bad. Spending $1000 on hotel, travel, food and time off of work is not unreasonable to afford to go to one a year. But trying to actually go to every tournament and spend a shit load on decks throughout the year, thats just too damn much
So I go to 2 different LGS. The first is the only premium LGS in Manhattan in NYC and lets use FNM draft. So every win best out of 3. We’ll get a pack. Then there is a non premium LGS and they host standard tournament on Friday legacy so my problem is you are playing for store credit. Then you also have to win 2 out of the 3 rounds. And if I lose the first 2 rounds by round 3 so many people leave early and I’ll get a win because half the store left. This just sucks.
Idk I’m probably just insane but I still love comp mtg. The fact that it’s bad ev is part of the excitement for me, because when you do make that top finish and qualify for more events etc it’s amazing
Make standard or pioneer played in more game stores by making it more affordable (more easily adjusted with standard). Make a big push for LGSs to host standard events. More standard players means more big events can be hosted in more places (less travel distance). Also, recruit more players by having less single card "must answer" threats. Open up spaces for more decks that don't have to be as removal heavy. Idk, spitballing. I wish more LGS nearby me would have pioneer nights. But it's hard for them to justify running
If I'm being honest I have participated in a few prereleases one was fun the others were toxic and then the 3 I tried to attend I couldn't because every box was sold to friends of the store owner. I live in a 10k pop town so that's like 5 dudes. So for me I treat magic like it's normal cards but with some spice. I play the game knights box alot for newer players and they enjoy it.
Making a pauper GP and more worldwide events would be a start, entry to the format is pretty low compared to the formats available nowadays, and the prize would be more appealing with decklists being cheaper.
The fight game community has majors and online tournaments it would greatly promote the game if we could do that. But first we need a good spectator client
Wizards needs to slow the rate at which they put out new products, reprint high cost cards, get rid of the reserved list(its existence only serves to maintain value of collectors and not the players) and improve support of older mechanics like roles, connive, casualty, magecraft, afflict myriad, enlist, fortell, alliance. or improve some tribes that have like none....turtles, resurrect bears...make worms cool again...allies would be cool to see as a large veriety of playable commander decks...not like, just 2. Gremlins, kobolds so many things you can do. Shield counters...add more support for blaze counters, flood counters, stun counters and ability counters. Make more gold tokens bring those back and add gold triggers. Creat a new tribe of interdimensional creatures that exist to fight eldrazi....ones that have a like "growth" trigger. "When this creature deals damage...do x instead. And actually create animation along side the sets that kinda tell the story of the set. Fat packs used to have a story bokklet that came with them that explained what is happening.....now im clueless half the time....like, why did we go from innistraad to kamigawa and like completely ignore emrakul in the moon
If you can’t afford the game? Don’t play the game. You are the reason local game stores can never recover after Covid. If you refuse to invest into the game? Then your opinion doesn’t matter or have any weight. Just shut up
@@reidf10 oh it’s my fault games stores haven’t recovered after Covid when I started playing two months ago? That’s so odd, didn’t know game stores only catered to time travelers. I just started getting into the hobby and have been printing out cards trying to figure out what I want to make for my very first deck. I have been researching looking at all the cards I can because of how expensive the game is so that I can actually start playing with a deck I feel satisfied with. If this game was cheaper I would of just bought one instead of researching for months so that I don’t feel like I wasted my money when I find out the deck I made actually sucks. I said I proxied deck and that true, I’ve printed out whole decks and played with them against only my other friends who all printed out their own decks. It allowed us all to try out magic for the first time and see if we actually wanted to invest our money in it. And they’ve bought cards. I plan on buying a budget deck I’m designing soon too. Through proxying I discovered I love the game and actually want to pay for the cards. Without proxying I wouldn’t have gotten into the hobby at all as the bar of entry is too high for new players.
So the only reasons i am hesitant about Arena is twofold: 1. card availability 2. Arena Cheats Longer Explanation: 1. Getting cards in Arena is annoying, so if they are going to do it, they just need to do it unlocked so we have access to all the cards for the events without having buy them. Also need to fix the "clock" from a turn by turn rope and instead like MTGOs total timer. 2. Arena Cheats plain and simple, and because of the garbage algorithms they have implemented with the "hand smoothing" and such kills deck building, you have to add additional lands to never get land screwed and lets not talk about 13 mountain mono-red and the fact that it still works. If they are going to do this, it needs to be as MUCH LIKE paper magic as possible. People dont play Arena for the noises and the over the top animations or because they want their deck and hands curated into ruining the game for either player. Just play the game. It should be just a digital analog for the paper version, not a new thing. People want to play Magic The Gathering, not Arena's weird interpretation of it. Anyway, maybe we should all be using spell table and have people go to like booths at stores with judges on either side, helping ensure all plays are fair.
But think of the multi billion dollar company if they give out prize support, literaly cardboard, to everybody let alone actual prizes that could see play
Can we just remove the bogus algorithm for determining "random" on MtG Arena. If it was actually random, which is significantly easier and lighter to code than what they came up with, then, it would be a fair digital space for tournaments.
They need to allow an association of players to use the license so we can have our own league without wotc mucking it up. They do nothing right, so just let us deal with it. Let the market decide what to do about magic comp, as it were.
I don't think competitive magic is meant to be accessible to the average player. Though I fully admit I'm a casual player who mostly plays commander. The Pro tours and the highest levels of competitive play are so out of my depth as a player that I don't think I could ever really play and enjoy it.
If it became an online only thing for CompREL I would quit the game. The point is “The Gathering.” Playing against nameless faces on a screen sucks the joy out of it
Competitive tournaments are just fine the way they are. Expecting things to change because you dont want to leave the house isnt it. Comp magic is expensive because you go for the experience + you should actually believe you're able to top 16. If you dont think you can, competitive magic isnt for you. Wanting to proxy everything is smooth commander brain thought. Proxy commander all you want. This is competitive magic. Most competitive decks arent thay expensive if you just save a bit at a time. If you cant, then just stick to proxying commander or play pauper.
Nothing. Competitive play isn't supposed to be easy. Outside of maybe standard, I don't see it as expensive. I felt Yugioh was way more expensive for high level comp play. Also the Idea that people think proxying is ok really urks the hell out of me.
I've been saying for almost 8 years, let players rent decks! This will bring a lot of people, make events more accessible and let people try out decks without sinking a thousand dollars into one.
id support this idea if there werent people who treat the cards like its trash
@@kendrickvickers2610 Than make the cards out of trash. Run a printer unless they have a friend willing to spot them.
that would be a abad decision in a business stamdpoint. lol
@@kendrickvickers2610just insure the cards and communicate that’s clearly to the players.
Plus, at official events, players damaging cards is a non issue.
Wotc can just print "tornament issue" decks, put a different back and a lower quality print on it, sell it valud for one event only.
The cost is really the big one. Make cards more accessible so people aren't having to spend $1000 on a deck and travel costs don't seem as unreasonable
Shhh! You'll upset the collectors. Do you want a Reserve List 2.0?
@@Timelord888that's not why the reserve list exists.
@@jonathangitter1311 Except it kinda is. "Chronicles" shook the confidence of collectors and stores. So Wizards made the reserve list to help restore that confidence
@@Timelord888 it's literally because the company got bought out
The big thing is that Hasbro/WOTC is no longer subsidizing the cost of running Competitive Play, which places the onus of these events wholly on event organizers who predictably pass the cost on to customers in order to retain their profits. If Wizards cares about Comp Magic events, they need to be prepared to open up the bank book, or the events will die. Obviously, in this case, WOTC would need to announce 'Hey, we are giving the organizers money so that the cost to attend is cheaper' so that the organizers are strongarmed to actually give fair pricing. This of course, assumes that 'keep the people who give you money happy' is a virtue in WotC's mind, which their track records indicates it isn't.
I trust wotc more than hasbro
I think thw problem is Hasbro is forcing wizards away from the competitive card game model and are kind of pushing magic into more of a collectible card model via university unbound, fancy card art ect. They are making mtg more like baseball cards. So I don't think they have any interest in supporting the game as a competitive game unfortunately.
also you would need to justify the investment. Competitive magic needs to be something people running the events make some profit out of it. If most magic players actually vibe towards the casual side, it becomes harder for it to go well.
@@adenthepoet6910 they just aren’t as appealing as they once were but I would argue that goes for almost anything that has a relatively competitive vibe or set up. It’s too sweaty.
Cedh tournaments have adpoted this mentality of online, proxy friendly tournaments, and the scene is bigger than ever rn🙏
Really where do they do that?
@deviousalemanni4235 Kaos has been running multiple monthly online tournaments such as mox masters and treasure series!
This is nice
I mean, it's the gathering. It should be fair, fun, and easy. TO GATHER.
Yes, should be. I like local FNMs bc the price of entry functionally pays for a pack of cards, and if you rank at least average, you get your money's worth...if you do well, you get double or more. I've gotten a fat pack as a prize bc of how many ppl were there. AND....just chillin with the nerds was fun. Plus, I can get more from my cards value by trading there too. Instead of the 30-50% value of selling them to the card shop itself. Better to get the cards I want by trading full value.
Nah
I get pissed off after playing too much online and get bored of it. I never get upset with paper magic and in general, enjoy it more. Still can get burnout, especially when getting extremely close to prizing. But competitive paper magic just hits differently than anything online could produce
As a warhammer player and magic player magic just is not as engaging or rewarding for 8-9 hours at a time. With warhammer there’s a back and fourth and also a gameplay that goes alongside your list. I never tried online but it’s something I wanna do for limited since that format I’ve seen to be my niche after trying out pioneer
There should be a battle. Not a one sided crush feeling.
Warhammer one game one squad 4 hours lol😂
Dude after the last LVO I wanted to off myself. There is such a thing as too much Warhammer
That sounds about the same. Plans that run along different deck lists and a back and forth ensues, in constructive play, with sideboarding and different ways of play to handle different decks/ player types.
The 2 days I spent at an NRG I enjoyed the entire experience. I was definitely exhausted before the end of it and I didn't even do well but I had fun and went to go visit people anyways so it was a great time. I do understand those that don't want to deal with the scene tho. It's a lot of work to go to even 1 event and I think MTGO tournamentsis the perfect place for people who can't afford to go
I'll never forget Button Masher and the patience he had. Truly a Magic experience.
I never understood the people going to big tournaments for the prices. I go there to meet people i only meet in real life on those events. If course i try and sometimes do get money out of it. But the reason is the gathering part of magic.
And i think with the magiccon concept where everyone can play as sideevent whatever his gusto is in addition to a big event. They are onto something good.
If course every fee should be lower. You should be able to rent cards/proxy for sth like legacy events. Etc
As a paper player, the only reason I like online play is for vintage draft. The chance to play with cards that otherwise I wouldn't be able to. To hell with online and online events. Bring back Minor League play from Star City Games and even TCGplayer. And if we are continuing to do serialized cards, do away with the reserve list, LotR showed us you can print cards with value at the reserve list level, now do away with it.
I'm convinced vintage cube is the best way to experience MTG. I've never had more fun playing magic.
@@iankane3732 I fully agree, however since I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on reserve list cards, I'm building a cube for my local store without reserve list cards. Is it as fun and crazy? No, but is it still fun? absolutely. Cube and commander are my priorities and I'll build modern later. Last thing I'm worrying about is "pioneer" (it's extended, let's be real) and to hell with standard.
@@JeffreyWilliams-qv5kp you could always use proxies for the really expensive cards if everyone was alright with that.
@@iankane3732 I honestly have the proxy's already, I would just rather have a proxy cube separate from my real cube
@@JeffreyWilliams-qv5kplol, Pioneer is not Extended. It's cool if you don't like it, but it's got TWELVE years worth of a card pool. Extended was NEVER that big. 😂
a few things i have in mind
Leveled Ladder - A deck power level that has players moving through different competitive ladders based on the total cost of deck and the whole decks power level This puts decks of a level with those equal to them. If you win more in your power level it moves to the next power level where you'd be at a slight disadvantage.
Have all of the players victories and losses calculated to make a top 16 players within the leaderboard
Prizes for anyone 11th place and below is a card worth at least $25
10th and up gets a $50 prepaid card as well as the mtg card.
5th and up gets a $100 prepaid card the mtg card
1st gets a prize pool of something like $1k-$2k
Or allow players to play at their own pace with it and have a website made that tracks mtg games and wins and losses
games must be recorded either by video or a series of images taken at the end of each turn So that the record can be validated by event staff
Decks would be uploaded so that players can see what deck they are running.
Make proxies legal to play in MTG lowing the price to level making the game events overall more inviting to new players
This is an old post so I am unsure if others will see it, but Cockatrice has been my go to place for MtG and my play group. We just treat it like game night and its a blast!
as I get older I've moved away from video games and more into the in person space. Paper is way more fun even if it cost more
yeah, sure, must be nice to have 4 zeros in your monthly wage
the FGC has been struggling with this in recent years. what we have done Is makeing events closer to cons, tons of side brackets, vendors, and giving events themes. ie. CEO has top 8 in a boxing ring
SpellTable tournament yo! Nobody minds proxies there!
thats a great idea if you like cheaters winning every tournament, web cam mtg van never be seriously competitive
Maybe a balance? More local events that count and shorten it to be more akin to a Friday night feel?
Even when I could justify the time or somehow travel as a younger man, I didn’t. Hours of grind for multiple days seemed unfun and unnecessarily repetitive.
It's a simple 3 step process.
1 Allow Proxies with rulings for legibility established to prevent unreadable or offensive proxies.
2 Stop helping the tertiary market Balloon card prices by getting rid of the reserved list and stop setting product prices based on assumed resale
3 Provide actual play incentives. Don't rely on LGSs to promote play, and start giving them prize resources that don't cost them an arm and a leg.
1 will bring in newer and less affluent players
2 will help established players expand their collections and synergizes with 1 to protect cards that retain some value since we could just play the proxy til it's a crumpled mess without damage to the collectable piece
3 takes the pressure of tourneys off of game stores and makes it WotCs responsibility to make events worthwhile for ALL comp players
The issue is that WotC doesn't really care about the the competitive scene all that much. Hasbro has been beating them to get every cent out of them and the last thing they want to do is give away money for prize support.
With that being said, an option that could be good would be a tiered payout based on how many rounds you win. So split the payout and use half to payout like normal. Then take the other half to use for prize support for everyone else. Like get a pack (or something) for each round you win. That way people would play the entire event instead of just dropping when they x-3.
I justify more as a vacation experience, it takes the pressure off.
Hotel in a big city, explore restaurants, meet up eith friends, go BS people at the bar.
PLAY CEDH!!! These statements are the REASON I love it so much. Everyone’s proxy friendly AND online events are common practice
In arena wynota era I made mythic#27 and at world's online drafted wrens n 7 but never drew it. Got some sleeves.
To make it more accessible just make packets cheaper and maybe throw in a booster box or two as prizes as well as fancy art on single cards.
Yes, if the prize money is not good, then at least give good bling promos of powerful cards. And they have to be 60cards viable. Look at One Piece TCG. Tournament grinders in my country have basically all switched to one piece because even the weekly lgs tourney winner promo cards are worth big $$.
If the event doesn't have the craziest packed panels and side events, i could never in my life justify going to any of them. To enter only to play in the most competitive setting in person is WAY too expensive even just for entry unless i had the most vicious of drive to be a paper magic donjuan
When I compare it to "normal sports" (something like swimming, track&field or judo) most people pay everything out of their pockets until there is enough audience for sponsors.
I never heard that athletes ask for value from the olympic committee.
And since competitive Magic has nearly no adversiting reach towards non magic players and most casuals, I think dumping resources in it is not so easy to justify.
Well, they could use the likely warehouses full of unsold 30th anniversary stuff to extend the prize pool to the top 100. Not really just the 30th stuff but it's an easy horse to kick. They could use any of their unsold or undersold sets to extend prize packages. Make it more worthwhile for players that can't spend $20-30 k on the most optimized meta decks needed to hit top 16.
Be well
Never been to a large competative event, but i do know magic players. Offer special promo art versions of mid tier commander staples as participation prizes. Or gold bordered shit that isnt ”allowed” to be reprinted, like duel lands. Them wales are gonna arrive in drowes.
They could provide the cards ! Submit the Deck list before hand , and get a magic tournament only deck with special card back or something
1. allow proxies
2. LOWER POWER CREEP, some will happen, but it gets ridiculous.
3. consider online alternatives with free access to the entire roster of legal cards for entrents.
i think more crossover between paper and online. like boosters giving arena codes, or arena tournaments with paper prizes. i think it would bring interest and help increase interest in both
Wizards doesn't do shit tbh
As long as you keep buying product every release? They don't care how much you enjoy the events. You're spending the money anyways.
Things unfortunately, have to get worse, before they get better. People have to begin stopping the whaling of products, which just won't happen as far as I see.
Rent decks good promos (the same paper for a sin collector can be use in any card lol) and push online qualifiers. Live costs is up
What I think would benefit mtg events which I noticed with fg events is have multiple events in the same building which will make hoing to the events more entertaining and benefit more. As well as improving the prize and entry rewards thats def a necessity maybe like if you sign for all the tournaments in that building for $100 u get a booster box for sounds like a good trade
That’s the reason there is causal magic. This mindset is like asking the NFL or NBA to made more accessible. If you aren’t willing to put in the time, hours and money to play competitive magic. Then play casually or host your own in house tournaments. Asking them to “lower the entry requirements” isn’t going to make competitive magic better. It is the highest level of play and players. It’s set that way so that not just anyone with any deck can play in it. Imagine a pro tour player going to their local regions competitive scene and playing against people who just barely know magic but were able to get into the event because they lowered the cost of entry and make it more accessible to newer players. Is that really fair? Why punish the professionals just for the sake of a few causals? Dumb af
Preach brother/sister preach
What is even worse is that I don't have friends and my only chance to play is at tournaments and i'm too poor to get the good enough deck to have fun with it
I missed live interaction with ppl
What if people paid slightly higher flat rates for entry, submitted deck lists and Wizards supplied them to "rent" for the event, if you have your own deck well then that's just swell but not necessary to play. It makes it 100% about actually playing the game and not about having more money than your opponents in some cases.
I like this whole rent a deck idea
Player cards in packs on the backside of Tokens
I mean spell table is right there, you don’t even have to go anywhere in person to find people to play against
Way cheaper entry prices and event unique participation prices
Heck even just at locals for pre-release I gotta pay $45. Like damn I remember when I first started out it was like $20.
Yeah but that is Modern Horizons vs. regular sets, isn't it?
@@Kettwiesel25 regular sets I think it was 35. This modern horizon set I had local stores this past weekend charging 50-55
I've moved away from tournaments when I zeen it was basically the same 4 ppl coming out on top who'd spend anywhere from 3 to 500 dollars on each new set release. I just lost interest in the game, id do a draft if it could mean that we'd all have to build a deck on the spot. It's a game and seeing ppl spend 500 on new sets day of release got old.
I love big events. Really fun to just go around, peruse the wares, get some cards signed, and play some side events. Tiring though, i will say that
Tournaments need to be accessible and structured to keep the magic comunity what it is
Best of luck with that!
Make the entry cheaper, 10-20$ to enter for the event, and provide better promos and more prizes for even lower ranks
This is a hot take guys…. Competitive magic is… competitive. You don’t HAVE to play it. You can play in FNMs. It’s not going to be accessible to everyone. I GUARANTEE if you went 0-3 you didn’t practice nearly enough and don’t know the meta. When I was in university and practicing for my regionals (which fed into nationals) I was practicing my deck online for 4 hours a day. Every day - and I made top 12. THIS is what it takes. People just don’t realize it
As a semi-avid arena player(sold out of paper for financial reasons). I still find arena having rules/game state issues where something should happen but doesn't
Unfortunately Proxying cards is not a viable business model for wizards of the coast. While competitive magic isn’t for everyone, the long days at tournaments are a key part of the experience and most tournaments have similar structures. The cost is problematic compared to the prizing which has to be increased across the board by wizards realizing that thinks like the pro tour are essential for success and value of the game as a whole.
Its interesting cuz im hearing similar complaints from the yugioh community. It sounds like late stage competitive tcgs struggle unless it goes completely smooth. I wonder if other late stage tcgs like pokemon or vanguard are having similar issues.
I remember at the one GP I managed to attend there where so many wacky side events that really boosted the whole comp
Magiccons, RCs, SCGOpens and to a lesser extent commandfests still do this.
Magiccons, RCs, SCGOpens and to a lesser extent commandfests still do this.
I will always allow people i play with to say "hey, hope you don't mind but i got some proxies in the deck"
I personally see it as no big issue, but then again I dont play competitive mtg and probably never will take this game that seriously
I think there are 3 things that Wizards needs to do in order to help out.
First, support all existing formats. Maybe you have an event if each type in major cities. From Pauper to Vintage, allow us to choose what we want to play and where.
Second, rework the Reserved List. Just allowing reprints for major anniversaries would go a long way toward allowing legacy and vintage to be approachable by the average player. Reprinted on every 10th anniversary with the occasional Judge Promo would be nice.
Third, cultivate a junior league. Not everyone wants to be a Pro Tour player, but giving us the option to play in a more casual format along side the pros would be nice.
I wanted to get back into standard and saw that because of bloomburrow being so tribal based Cavern of Souls is back to almost $40 a copy 😔 considering how many times it has been printed I was shocked but then again they did up it to mythic for every reprint because WOTC sucks. Cards do have to have value for people to want to crack packs and win them as prizes but I am 100% in agreement with everyone that says mana bases should always be affordable
Switching to Digital fixes almost every issue:
-no Traveling costs
-low deck costs
-no cheating
-much easier to follow (although It would be appreciated if they got a Spectator more and didn't resort to discord)
Not sure what client you mean exactly by digital, but to ensure the non-cheating thing when on non-wizard clients is pretty hard if you ask me
@@Kettwiesel25 i mean Arena, or at the very least MTGO. I wouldn't use non-WotC clients either for competitive
@@OsvaldoChannel1 then I kinda disagree with the "low deck costs". I mean, MTGO is way cheaper than paper of course, but it's still not cheap at all.
If i didnt have to pay $1000 for a comp deck the cost of everything else wouldnt hurt as bad. Spending $1000 on hotel, travel, food and time off of work is not unreasonable to afford to go to one a year. But trying to actually go to every tournament and spend a shit load on decks throughout the year, thats just too damn much
I like the big events though, I also don't like playing Magic online, so I might have a different view of it.
So I go to 2 different LGS. The first is the only premium LGS in Manhattan in NYC and lets use FNM draft. So every win best out of 3. We’ll get a pack.
Then there is a non premium LGS and they host standard tournament on Friday legacy so my problem is you are playing for store credit. Then you also have to win 2 out of the 3 rounds. And if I lose the first 2 rounds by round 3 so many people leave early and I’ll get a win because half the store left. This just sucks.
"Why don't we further alienate ourselves from everyone around us and retreat *even further* into the computer?"
Brilliant idea. Absolutely stunning.
Spelltable has been great
Idk I’m probably just insane but I still love comp mtg. The fact that it’s bad ev is part of the excitement for me, because when you do make that top finish and qualify for more events etc it’s amazing
Arena. Arena is the answer. Also put modern there, the system can handle the amount of cards even if you add legacy.
Please support me on this.😊😂
Make standard or pioneer played in more game stores by making it more affordable (more easily adjusted with standard). Make a big push for LGSs to host standard events. More standard players means more big events can be hosted in more places (less travel distance).
Also, recruit more players by having less single card "must answer" threats. Open up spaces for more decks that don't have to be as removal heavy.
Idk, spitballing. I wish more LGS nearby me would have pioneer nights. But it's hard for them to justify running
MTGO is like what paper magic should be, inexpensive, easy to get into, you can rent decks for the week and other nonsense that makes it great.
what does WotC do? they stay out of EDH
Proxies would be the end of woc and the dawn of a new golden age of magic
If I'm being honest I have participated in a few prereleases one was fun the others were toxic and then the 3 I tried to attend I couldn't because every box was sold to friends of the store owner. I live in a 10k pop town so that's like 5 dudes. So for me I treat magic like it's normal cards but with some spice. I play the game knights box alot for newer players and they enjoy it.
Making a pauper GP and more worldwide events would be a start, entry to the format is pretty low compared to the formats available nowadays, and the prize would be more appealing with decklists being cheaper.
Not everything needs to be for everyone, the world shouldn’t be catering to the lowest. The low should figure out how to meet the average.
The fight game community has majors and online tournaments it would greatly promote the game if we could do that. But first we need a good spectator client
Wizards needs to slow the rate at which they put out new products, reprint high cost cards, get rid of the reserved list(its existence only serves to maintain value of collectors and not the players) and improve support of older mechanics like roles, connive, casualty, magecraft, afflict myriad, enlist, fortell, alliance. or improve some tribes that have like none....turtles, resurrect bears...make worms cool again...allies would be cool to see as a large veriety of playable commander decks...not like, just 2. Gremlins, kobolds so many things you can do.
Shield counters...add more support for blaze counters, flood counters, stun counters and ability counters.
Make more gold tokens bring those back and add gold triggers.
Creat a new tribe of interdimensional creatures that exist to fight eldrazi....ones that have a like "growth" trigger. "When this creature deals damage...do x instead.
And actually create animation along side the sets that kinda tell the story of the set. Fat packs used to have a story bokklet that came with them that explained what is happening.....now im clueless half the time....like, why did we go from innistraad to kamigawa and like completely ignore emrakul in the moon
That’s why I proxy decks, there is no reason a card game like this should be this expensive. It is something I play for fun
If you can’t afford the game? Don’t play the game. You are the reason local game stores can never recover after Covid.
If you refuse to invest into the game? Then your opinion doesn’t matter or have any weight.
Just shut up
@@reidf10 oh it’s my fault games stores haven’t recovered after Covid when I started playing two months ago? That’s so odd, didn’t know game stores only catered to time travelers. I just started getting into the hobby and have been printing out cards trying to figure out what I want to make for my very first deck. I have been researching looking at all the cards I can because of how expensive the game is so that I can actually start playing with a deck I feel satisfied with. If this game was cheaper I would of just bought one instead of researching for months so that I don’t feel like I wasted my money when I find out the deck I made actually sucks.
I said I proxied deck and that true, I’ve printed out whole decks and played with them against only my other friends who all printed out their own decks. It allowed us all to try out magic for the first time and see if we actually wanted to invest our money in it. And they’ve bought cards. I plan on buying a budget deck I’m designing soon too. Through proxying I discovered I love the game and actually want to pay for the cards. Without proxying I wouldn’t have gotten into the hobby at all as the bar of entry is too high for new players.
So the only reasons i am hesitant about Arena is twofold:
1. card availability
2. Arena Cheats
Longer Explanation:
1. Getting cards in Arena is annoying, so if they are going to do it, they just need to do it unlocked so we have access to all the cards for the events without having buy them. Also need to fix the "clock" from a turn by turn rope and instead like MTGOs total timer.
2. Arena Cheats plain and simple, and because of the garbage algorithms they have implemented with the "hand smoothing" and such kills deck building, you have to add additional lands to never get land screwed and lets not talk about 13 mountain mono-red and the fact that it still works.
If they are going to do this, it needs to be as MUCH LIKE paper magic as possible.
People dont play Arena for the noises and the over the top animations or because they want their deck and hands curated into ruining the game for either player. Just play the game. It should be just a digital analog for the paper version, not a new thing. People want to play Magic The Gathering, not Arena's weird interpretation of it.
Anyway, maybe we should all be using spell table and have people go to like booths at stores with judges on either side, helping ensure all plays are fair.
Honestly, only the top 1% of player even care about these events or have the dedication to necessary
Bring back local gps. I'd actually bother playing standard again.
Don't touch my multiple day events. Make the promos better 50$ sign up get 50$ promo sleeves, deckbox and mat. Done. Easy. As it used to be...
But think of the multi billion dollar company if they give out prize support, literaly cardboard, to everybody let alone actual prizes that could see play
Drop the entry fee, perma ban cheaters aftert he first time their caught, don't allow people who know the judges to play, and allow proxies.
"Magic is so expensive"
*Bonfire at $150 per copy on pre release*
Banning the reserved list would instantly make mtg more accessible, but hasbro are a bunch of fucking cowards.
I wish i could afford to get into comp magic
We’re talking about wizards of the coast, they’re not gonna do shit
Can we just remove the bogus algorithm for determining "random" on MtG Arena. If it was actually random, which is significantly easier and lighter to code than what they came up with, then, it would be a fair digital space for tournaments.
Lol
Maldhound
I think they should just tear down Arena, it only adds to the cost increase of magic and is barely the same game.
They need to allow an association of players to use the license so we can have our own league without wotc mucking it up. They do nothing right, so just let us deal with it. Let the market decide what to do about magic comp, as it were.
I don't think competitive magic is meant to be accessible to the average player. Though I fully admit I'm a casual player who mostly plays commander. The Pro tours and the highest levels of competitive play are so out of my depth as a player that I don't think I could ever really play and enjoy it.
I am anti-online magic. The last thing we need is better online tournaments because it’ll kill the in-person attendance
Remove the reserve list or allow proxies
You should be able to transfer your cards online
Paper is the only way I will play magic
A better, faster tournament format with actual prize aupport. Idk, I don't even like playing prereleases.
Damn I feel so bad for you, you're not at work, playing a game that you like, and meeting new people for the WHOLE DAY? That really sucks 😢
Making any competitive event more accessible: shower more and wear deodorant.
If it became an online only thing for CompREL I would quit the game. The point is “The Gathering.” Playing against nameless faces on a screen sucks the joy out of it
Competitive tournaments are just fine the way they are. Expecting things to change because you dont want to leave the house isnt it. Comp magic is expensive because you go for the experience + you should actually believe you're able to top 16. If you dont think you can, competitive magic isnt for you. Wanting to proxy everything is smooth commander brain thought. Proxy commander all you want. This is competitive magic. Most competitive decks arent thay expensive if you just save a bit at a time. If you cant, then just stick to proxying commander or play pauper.
God, even POKEMON lets you rent teams, why doesn't Magic let you rent decks? It would bring more players to competitive
Nothing. Competitive play isn't supposed to be easy. Outside of maybe standard, I don't see it as expensive. I felt Yugioh was way more expensive for high level comp play. Also the Idea that people think proxying is ok really urks the hell out of me.
More events more often in more places to reduce travel. Pioneer, Standard, or Pauper instead of Modern events to reduce card costs.