Thank you so much for uploading this video, you explained everything so well and in so much detail! My RS teacher basically said "well its a bit like gender and society really" read the textbook and answer the questions.
If anything, the "Gender and Society" part of the A-level is rather content-light and woolly, and it is the "Gender and Theology" section which fills it out with content you can really get your teeth into: and this video is a very clear exposition of the theological issues at stake.
I think Daly actively (in her later works) tries to differentiate her ideal religion from the religion she broke away from. It’s been a while since I have read Daly (especially her later works when she gets super radical) is there anyway you could let me know which of her books certain things you are saying come from? Just to refresh my memory on the subject I do want to reread the books. In Daly’s early works she does not think that it is only women that can reform the church. In her early work, she is devoted to transforming misogyny in the Catholic/Christian religion. It wasn’t until the misogynistic resistance to her efforts at attempting to reform the tradition from one that was oppressive to women that she states that women should have a ‘lesbian separatism,’ in religion. It was also around that time she stopped letting men into her classes at Boston College. Although she didn’t allow men into her classes, she did offer them independent studies. It is my own personal opinion that Mary Daly got so frustrated with the misogynistic phallocentric guards of societal institutions such as- just to name a few- the priesthood, politics, and Free Masonary- that she decided to run her classes as those ‘good old boys clubs’ run society- by denying near 1/2 of the human population entrance based on one of their sex chromosomes. Since the Y chromosome is what often bars biologically female Homo sapiens from organizations that work as the architects of society- and barring them those positions ensures a phallocentric morality that keeps women in a subservient position- Daly, in my opinion, was probably trying to send a message by denying entrance into a group based on the lack of the second X chromosome. This is not what Daly wanted- she does become quite creative with language in her later works… which may also have been a clear message since the phallocentric architects of society have historically and perhaps still do use language to create cultural norms… just like the dominion of man over women and nature based on the YWHist strand of Genesis which sets up the idea that there is a divine justification to that order (Rosemary Radford Ruether also talks a great deal on this theme and about the feminine language that is used for Earth and the connection of the subjugation and misuse of both the natural world and women.) I am going to have to go back and listen to this again since I was focused on writing this comment- I may have more to write.
Rosemary Radford Ruether is also an eco-feminist, that was very important in some of the works of hers that I read. She did not see the fact Jesus was male as problematic - however, I need to reread the book to see how she justifies that with the history of the Christian tradition.
And all we can really say about prehistoric religion is speculation from information gathered through the work of archaeologists- it wasn’t recorded in writing so there is nothing that we can make an actual definitive statement about when speaking about how religion was practiced in history. We can make assumptions about certain artifacts that appear to us to be religious in nature and assumptions that some excavated places or standing structures were used for ceremonial purposes but there is no way of verifying the theories archeologists, historians, academics have put forth
Yes it would be wonderful to consider the divine beyond gender- this is why in Daly’s early work when she still saw redemption for Christianity she proposed viewing the divine not in terms of gender but drawing on theology from an older white theologian, suggested that the divine should be viewed as an ever dynamic and actively living verb. She also wanted Christianity to focus less on what she called ‘dead agape’ meaning the focus of religion was too much on the afterlife and the reward of heaven and punishment of hell. She instead advocated a ‘living eros,’ that word to Daly did not hold the connotation of passionate and romantic love but instead was advocating the notion of living a life that held quality while alive. I want to reread her early works and then I could give a better answer
I do not like essentialism that kind of feminism seems to me like the wrong direction for me, personally. I also think that the terms misogyny and patriarchy should cease being used as synonyms. Although I personally wouldn’t be satisfied living in a culture or religion that chose to retain traditional family roles based on gender I do think it’s important not to hold prejudices against cultures and religions that do. Especially if participants have the right to leave that particular lifestyle. There view of gender may not be misogynistic and actually closely in some ways resembles some types of views some types of feminism hold. Instead of seeing the roles of gender as one being superior to the other they see both as sacred and equally important. That type of traditional gender role based on gender I don’t think is fair to call misogynistic but may be labeled patriarchy which in my opinion is a different thing then misogyny. Of course there are some fanatical patriarchal religious groups (such as Westboro Baptist Church that protests outside of soldiers funerals, gay people’s funerals, and others they see as not following the will of what they perceive God to be) that can accurately be called misogynistic. I think it’s important not to be prejudice against other religions, cultures, lifestyles if people willingly are a part of that group (if they aren’t it’s more likely categorized as a cult if speaking about religion) and if they are not hurting anyone else or any other group in any active way… that includes printed material and hate speech although legislation of those things gets tricky and the best solution is to ensure that people are educated and able to think critically and objectively about things.
Nice video! I think you oversimplify Daly's views on sex by claiming she's "exclusive of men" -- because she's exclusive of men within the context of patriarchal society and ONLY within this context --- which happens to be our context. So a lot of your criticism is baseless, especially the claim she's "essentialist". Just because she describes the gender/sex binary doesn't mean she's upholding it.
Hi Cris, thanks for the comment. I am always glad to see alternative views and open discussion on my videos, so thank you for putting your views forward. In retrospect, I may have been somewhat sweeping in the language that I used in this video - I could have been more nuanced. However, I had gained an underlying feeling of essentialism from her writings when I read them, but I would be open to re-reading them with a new interpretation. I am always willing to rethink, relearn, and revoke. Thanks for joining in!
She is essentialist though mate, she believed that all men are inherently worse than women and refused to teach men when there were women present as she thought that men were essentially indoctrinated in a rapist ideology, so I dont believe that its baseless criticism, she herself said she wouldn't care if men did not exist. I understand your point but I think you've got to see that context is sometimes not relevent when looking at extreme views like refusing to teach men
@@willmee3463 I think context is very important. For centuries, women were kept out of academia by men -- why? Because men are inherently worse than women and obsessed with hoarding power? Or because men were indoctrinated into a misogynistic ideology?
Let’s not forget about ‘If god is male, then male is god. The supreme phallus… ‘ for some reason some misogynistic douche bag changed this phrase in my book along with things in my Rosemary Radford Ruether books - no wonder Daly got so pissed off if things like that were done to her and she didn’t even change her own writing when she later had different opinions- so, whoever did that, once again, misogynistically disrespected a woman who just wanted to make the Catholic/Christian tradition more welcoming and relevant to women. She only wanted the religion to grant females equal participation in the tradition and to stop the misogynistic notion of the ‘good woman,’ being one that necessitates complete selflessness in a role that is dedicated to being a servant to a husband a children- men are not required to be satisfied with only the role they play their family and they also (according to traditional Christian norms) get to rely on their wife as a tool of comfort and a maid. I could take a few pictures of these books- like the one where someone changed my favorite quote from ‘the supreme phallus,’ to ‘the supreme patriarch,’ these two phrases are not the same. Also, it’s extremely sad to me since these books are important to me and I want to reread them the way they were. If someone wants to write their own feminist theology books- go ahead, I would love to read them, but don’t ruin the academic legacy of others! Also, originally when I read Sexism and God Talk, I don’t remember it beginning with a Midrash. Have you read this book? Does your copy begin this way?
Mary Daly wasn’t as radical in her earlier works but I agree that in her later works sometimes her radical feminism does interfere with sound logic in a traditional academic way. Her playful use of language is kind of fun though
Thank you so much for uploading this video, you explained everything so well and in so much detail! My RS teacher basically said "well its a bit like gender and society really" read the textbook and answer the questions.
Thanks for the positive feedback! It's a tough subject, to be fair, so if you don't get anything, just ask away.
If anything, the "Gender and Society" part of the A-level is rather content-light and woolly, and it is the "Gender and Theology" section which fills it out with content you can really get your teeth into: and this video is a very clear exposition of the theological issues at stake.
Really helpful. U also explain it so well in only 35 min. Don’t stop please. I need u
Thank you! Don't worry, plenty more on the way!
Loved this thank you!
You're very welcome, glad it helped!
Really helpful, thanks for putting this up :)
Thanks Thomas, no problem. It's not easy to understand without a background in feminist theory, so I hope this has clarified it a little
This video was very good.I felt engaged throughout.
Thanks James, glad to hear it. I try not to just drone on!
@@EddieEducation you really are excellent, I appreciate you a lot. You’ve helped me and others a lot.
@@rustscripts3213 Thank you, very kind of you. Glad it helps!
I think Daly actively (in her later works) tries to differentiate her ideal religion from the religion she broke away from. It’s been a while since I have read Daly (especially her later works when she gets super radical) is there anyway you could let me know which of her books certain things you are saying come from? Just to refresh my memory on the subject I do want to reread the books.
In Daly’s early works she does not think that it is only women that can reform the church. In her early work, she is devoted to transforming misogyny in the Catholic/Christian religion. It wasn’t until the misogynistic resistance to her efforts at attempting to reform the tradition from one that was oppressive to women that she states that women should have a ‘lesbian separatism,’ in religion. It was also around that time she stopped letting men into her classes at Boston College.
Although she didn’t allow men into her classes, she did offer them independent studies. It is my own personal opinion that Mary Daly got so frustrated with the misogynistic phallocentric guards of societal institutions such as- just to name a few- the priesthood, politics, and Free Masonary- that she decided to run her classes as those ‘good old boys clubs’ run society- by denying near 1/2 of the human population entrance based on one of their sex chromosomes. Since the Y chromosome is what often bars biologically female Homo sapiens from organizations that work as the architects of society- and barring them those positions ensures a phallocentric morality that keeps women in a subservient position- Daly, in my opinion, was probably trying to send a message by denying entrance into a group based on the lack of the second X chromosome.
This is not what Daly wanted- she does become quite creative with language in her later works… which may also have been a clear message since the phallocentric architects of society have historically and perhaps still do use language to create cultural norms… just like the dominion of man over women and nature based on the YWHist strand of Genesis which sets up the idea that there is a divine justification to that order (Rosemary Radford Ruether also talks a great deal on this theme and about the feminine language that is used for Earth and the connection of the subjugation and misuse of both the natural world and women.)
I am going to have to go back and listen to this again since I was focused on writing this comment- I may have more to write.
Rosemary Radford Ruether is also an eco-feminist, that was very important in some of the works of hers that I read. She did not see the fact Jesus was male as problematic - however, I need to reread the book to see how she justifies that with the history of the Christian tradition.
And all we can really say about prehistoric religion is speculation from information gathered through the work of archaeologists- it wasn’t recorded in writing so there is nothing that we can make an actual definitive statement about when speaking about how religion was practiced in history. We can make assumptions about certain artifacts that appear to us to be religious in nature and assumptions that some excavated places or standing structures were used for ceremonial purposes but there is no way of verifying the theories archeologists, historians, academics have put forth
Yes it would be wonderful to consider the divine beyond gender- this is why in Daly’s early work when she still saw redemption for Christianity she proposed viewing the divine not in terms of gender but drawing on theology from an older white theologian, suggested that the divine should be viewed as an ever dynamic and actively living verb. She also wanted Christianity to focus less on what she called ‘dead agape’ meaning the focus of religion was too much on the afterlife and the reward of heaven and punishment of hell. She instead advocated a ‘living eros,’ that word to Daly did not hold the connotation of passionate and romantic love but instead was advocating the notion of living a life that held quality while alive. I want to reread her early works and then I could give a better answer
*tut tut* oh Eddie, you reinforcer of the patriarch you! 😁 in all seriousness thank you so much for this, these video resources are invaluable!
As my PE teacher always said: "must try harder"! Glad you find these videos helpful 👍
Rosemary Radford Ruether actually says the gender of the savior doesn’t matter
I do not like essentialism that kind of feminism seems to me like the wrong direction for me, personally. I also think that the terms misogyny and patriarchy should cease being used as synonyms. Although I personally wouldn’t be satisfied living in a culture or religion that chose to retain traditional family roles based on gender I do think it’s important not to hold prejudices against cultures and religions that do. Especially if participants have the right to leave that particular lifestyle. There view of gender may not be misogynistic and actually closely in some ways resembles some types of views some types of feminism hold. Instead of seeing the roles of gender as one being superior to the other they see both as sacred and equally important. That type of traditional gender role based on gender I don’t think is fair to call misogynistic but may be labeled patriarchy which in my opinion is a different thing then misogyny. Of course there are some fanatical patriarchal religious groups (such as Westboro Baptist Church that protests outside of soldiers funerals, gay people’s funerals, and others they see as not following the will of what they perceive God to be) that can accurately be called misogynistic. I think it’s important not to be prejudice against other religions, cultures, lifestyles if people willingly are a part of that group (if they aren’t it’s more likely categorized as a cult if speaking about religion) and if they are not hurting anyone else or any other group in any active way… that includes printed material and hate speech although legislation of those things gets tricky and the best solution is to ensure that people are educated and able to think critically and objectively about things.
Nice video! I think you oversimplify Daly's views on sex by claiming she's "exclusive of men" -- because she's exclusive of men within the context of patriarchal society and ONLY within this context --- which happens to be our context. So a lot of your criticism is baseless, especially the claim she's "essentialist". Just because she describes the gender/sex binary doesn't mean she's upholding it.
Hi Cris, thanks for the comment. I am always glad to see alternative views and open discussion on my videos, so thank you for putting your views forward.
In retrospect, I may have been somewhat sweeping in the language that I used in this video - I could have been more nuanced. However, I had gained an underlying feeling of essentialism from her writings when I read them, but I would be open to re-reading them with a new interpretation.
I am always willing to rethink, relearn, and revoke. Thanks for joining in!
She is essentialist though mate, she believed that all men are inherently worse than women and refused to teach men when there were women present as she thought that men were essentially indoctrinated in a rapist ideology, so I dont believe that its baseless criticism, she herself said she wouldn't care if men did not exist. I understand your point but I think you've got to see that context is sometimes not relevent when looking at extreme views like refusing to teach men
@@willmee3463 I think context is very important. For centuries, women were kept out of academia by men -- why? Because men are inherently worse than women and obsessed with hoarding power? Or because men were indoctrinated into a misogynistic ideology?
Let’s not forget about ‘If god is male, then male is god. The supreme phallus… ‘ for some reason some misogynistic douche bag changed this phrase in my book along with things in my Rosemary Radford Ruether books - no wonder Daly got so pissed off if things like that were done to her and she didn’t even change her own writing when she later had different opinions- so, whoever did that, once again, misogynistically disrespected a woman who just wanted to make the Catholic/Christian tradition more welcoming and relevant to women. She only wanted the religion to grant females equal participation in the tradition and to stop the misogynistic notion of the ‘good woman,’ being one that necessitates complete selflessness in a role that is dedicated to being a servant to a husband a children- men are not required to be satisfied with only the role they play their family and they also (according to traditional Christian norms) get to rely on their wife as a tool of comfort and a maid. I could take a few pictures of these books- like the one where someone changed my favorite quote from ‘the supreme phallus,’ to ‘the supreme patriarch,’ these two phrases are not the same. Also, it’s extremely sad to me since these books are important to me and I want to reread them the way they were. If someone wants to write their own feminist theology books- go ahead, I would love to read them, but don’t ruin the academic legacy of others! Also, originally when I read Sexism and God Talk, I don’t remember it beginning with a Midrash. Have you read this book? Does your copy begin this way?
Daphne Hampson is better feminist theologian than the radical Mary daly
She certainly has a lot of potentially revolutionary ideas that are worthy of consideration
Mary Daly wasn’t as radical in her earlier works but I agree that in her later works sometimes her radical feminism does interfere with sound logic in a traditional academic way. Her playful use of language is kind of fun though