Digitizing VHS & Hi8 Tapes: How Professionals Do It
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2023
- Today we're going to be taking a look at some semi-professional analog capture hardware that is capable of digitizing every last bit of quality that VHS, Hi8, and 8mm videocassettes have to offer...
Gear Used:
Camera: Fujifilm X-H1 & X-H2S
Lens: Minolta Rokkor-X PG 50mm f/1.4, Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4
Mic: Deity D3 Pro & PowerDeWise Lav Mic
Editing Software: Final Cut Pro X
Credits:
Music:
"Happiness is Here" by Table Etiquette: www.epidemicsound.com/track/J...
"In My State" by Table Etiquette: www.epidemicsound.com/track/a...
#vhs #retro #digitization - Věda a technologie
Wait... I was expecting a Part 2 to this where you took the captured content on the computer and then moved it to a new computer and applied up-scaling and other enhancements. Come on man! You can't stop now!
Excellent presentation
Great video - this is almost the exact same setup I put together (after hours of research). Running a 2006 Mac Pro (10.6.8) and a Kona LSe. I've been capturing uncompressed 8-bit Hi8 and VHS through S-Video and never had a single dropped frame or crash -- about 22MB/sec. which any SATA drive easily will handle. You can actually find S-Video to BNC cables for connection for the camcoder/VCR to breakout cable and 3.5 inch stereo mini to XLR for the breakout cable for audio.
What are the pros doing it on a computer than a standalone dvd recorder? Besidws it being more expensive. Time consuming and more hassle
Quality, shitty amateur!
Really enjoyed the introduction
Many thanks for this interesting video!
Some time ago I went and took over 25 old Video 8 and Hi8 tapes and converted them into MP4. Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to work with an AJA Kona so I read about other methods and ended up with the following workflow, maybe it's of help for someone:
Playback source was my trusty old Sony CCD TRV 208E camcorder with which I recorded most of the stuff 20 years ago.
Beforehand I had it cleaned properly with a cleaning tape.
The camcorder was then plugged into an old DVD Recorder from Panasonic via S-Video. This is very important! Hi8 is capable of seperating chroma and luminance, something that the S-Video connection does as well, as Griffen described. The normal oldschool RCA plug in yellow can NOT do that - it mixes chroma and luminance into one signal, worsening the image quality in the process.
The reason for using a mid 2000s DVD recorder from Panasonic is that these models had the best jitter and time base correction on the market. Basically there A/D converters were constructed for the bad quality and unstable signals amateur analog camcorders produced and converted them into the best possible digital signal.
The digital signal (576i resolution) was then fed through an HDMI splitter (to get rid of HDCP)via HDMI into my PC's Blackmagic capture card. The audio went straight from the camcorder via mono RCA into the capture card as well.
With the Blackmagic card suite I then recorded raw *.avi files. These files are insanely HUGE as they're uncompressed (1 hour = 100 Gbyte even in 576i).
I then took to avidemux, did some slight cropping (the recorded signal always shows greenish borders which CRTs didn't show back then due to overscan). Also I deinterlaced the videos with the YADIF 2x filter and used a very slight blur to make them look a bit softer. Then they were compressed and archived in H.265 MP4 files (5000-6000 kbits bitrate).
This is a very complicated workflow, I am aware, but apart from using professional video restauration equipment for 1000s of dollars it will give you the best possible results.
All the stuff I just touched here is written down in great detail by AlexG in the German Hifi Forum. If you're interested you can run it through google translate and have a look:
www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=54&thread=17166&back=1&sort=lpost&z=1
"Yadif 2x" - is it about doubling the frame rate at the cost of vertical resolution?
my question is, do these tape conversion places do a decent job at digitizing? they must if they have been in business for 5 or 10 years. I asked one place if they use high-end VCR's to do the conversions, and the person said no. Very interesting that they don't use JVC's with Time Base Corrector.
Can you please give more information about the specific computer and capture card used in this video? Together, they're available used for only $50??
@griffensander Is there a specific reason to use a Mac G5? Does it work better with the old tech workflow and nuances of VHS? Or would any Mac Pro with a PCIe slot work with an AJA Kona LHe? Also, would an LHi work even better? Which machines could/should support LHe and LHi?
Hey where did you source the s-video to rca cables?
Does that card have a TBC on board cheers.
Do you restore vhs? And if ever, how much do you charge?
RF capture directly from the test points in the VCR or Camera is probably the way to go. This method of capture creates direct copy of the tape in it true form. Then using VHS-Decode to create a the video from it. Also storing it in this form allows better video to be created from it as tech improves without worrying about the original tapes degrading. This is the method that was developed to preserve laser disc and has since been expanded to VCR and other magnetic tape media.
Care to elaborate on how that works exactly?
This is only on theory. There are shitty guys that try to do that but for 6 years they have not done nothing some ever close to capture with specialized professional equipment
This is only on theory. There arw shitty guys that trybto do that but for 6 years they have not done nothing some ever close to capture with specialized professional equipment
It doesn't wotlrk. It just spreads rumors.
@@RetroBulgaria You might want to get your head out of you ass and do a Google search.
I use an Aver media game capture with the component/ RGb inputcard with a DVD recorder in between plus 16 megabits it looks really good😊
If you’re transferring old camcorder digital tapes to a laptop, is the upscaler still needed
Where did you get the cable for the LHE? I can’t find one anywhere.
It’s kinda funny how the hallmarks of “sleaze” from 150 years prior become, through the distance of history, a fun setting to put productions on mimicking the styles (with the saloon mistress, the cabaret dancers, etc)
My mini dv canon camcorders has a svideo in to record from analog to mini dv tape. From the camcorder, I would then FireWire to the computer in avi format. The avi format uses about 15 gb per hour in SD format. Problem now a days is mini dv and FireWire are getting rare.
Same here, wonder if that's better than a capture device (elgato $90). Other than a desktop PC with FireWire card, I think Apple has two $30 (?) cables that together convert FireWire to modern USB. There are multiple versions of FireWire is my recollection - investigated 1-2 years ago...
It is a stable, less problematic method but you endup with compressed DV files with half chroma information only.
@@Capturing-Memories I didn't know that. But are you sure? Where would I lose the chroma info since DV/AVI barely compresses compared to MP4 and my Canon's do have S inputs as well as the SVHS I had at the time. Unless the camera analog to digital converter automatically cuts the chroma. But if that's the case then just about any analog to digital converter will cut chroma info - except for extremely expensive ones. However, If I have anymore analog to convert, I'll have to go a different route since I don't have firewire anymore and there are easier devices now.
@@tongmovies Lookup chroma subsampling, Lossless capture is 4:2:2, DV is 4:1:1 for NTSC and 4:2:0 for PAL.
@@tongmovies DV has less chroma resolution than luma, true. But there again, so does the tape. VHS chroma resolution is best described as shocking. DV chroma resolution isn't going to make any difference at all to that.
I only have a M2 macbook pro - so no video card to install….. is there a work around. My option 2 would definitely have to add a TBC - Time Base Controller- the amazon capture sustems are way to jumpy… any work arounds for just having a m2 pro ? Thanks
With such a question you should also define the price range. Not everyone wants to spend €4800 on a TBC/synchronizer. The SDI to HDMI converter and the rather rare interlaced(!) SD HDMI USB3 grabber are downright cheap at around €250.
ADVC-110 actually will work driverless for modern Macs with a firewire to thunderbolt adapter. Only real downside there is 4:1:1 chroma subsampling that DV uses. For VHS and the tape you're using, it'd be hard to say if you'd really notice a significant difference. You'd then want to deinterlace and scale with something like the hybrid app. The DV capture can just be done in the QuickTime app by pressing record and choosing the file format - probably best to stick to DV since that's the stream the box outputs.
PC. PC not Mac options what’s available?
I have a PC with a Happuage Collossus 2 capture card
Wouldn’t you want a professional hi8 player? Is the footage coming out of the camcorder the best it can be?
I use a video8, Hi8 Digital8 camcorder Firewire cbale straight in dvd recorder. The shorter the analog path the better
@@tacofortgens3471 You ignored one thing, DV is a compressed format, The only better way to get lossless AVI 4:2:2 is the S-Video out way.
@griffinsander great videos 👍🏼 was wondering if you provide help 1 on 1 for those that really need your help… i have 2 cases of vhs as well as vhsc and dig 8 to convert and would love some support . Wasn’t sure if u provided that at all ?
You must PAY in the nearest digitizing shop, they will be glad to serve you. Its not for guys that have no deep understandings in the matter.
I use my Clear Click to transfer my old tapes.
What about firewire and D8 Camcorders? ;)
Those are digital, so you can simply transfer footage from them to your computer over FireWire or USB.
@@TheiTunesFanboy The camcorders and the system itself yes, but many of them play back analog tapes and covert them in losless quality and full SD resolution to your PC via FireWire as a DV-Stream ;)
@@akis.tsirogiannis Actually, no...DV conversion of an analog(i.e. Hi8 or VHS) tape yields lossy(4:1:1) compression, costing you half of the luma/chroma values. Only tapes that are *already* digital(Digital8, MiniDV, etc) are ideal for IEEE 1394(aka Firewire) transfers, as they're encoded with a DV signal.
@@CINEKYD_MEDIA_ARCHIVE So what do you recommend instead for Hi8, VHS?
@@MrGTAmodsgerman VHS-Decode(the project started with Laserdisc and now it supports all analog formats - VHS, Hi8, Video8, Betamax, U-matic 3/4", etc...)
The AJA card wouldn't be good enough (timebase) for me to write "How Professionals Do It".
whY? what is better? And does it work for PC too?
@@sdflipper743 When I write not well enough, that means I saw a Video on YT where you can see the sideways fluctuations, even though YT omits the subtleties. My old Solution with Panasonic DMR-E55 EG (PAL) DVD Recorder only as TBC can be seen here in Full HD: czcams.com/video/F7IVjVYH68U/video.html My new Solution will essentially consist of the Pioneer DVD Recorder DVR-560H as a TBC (PAL=4:4:4 HDMI out) and the Blackmagic Decklink Mini Recorder HD. But it doesn't work on my old PC without PCIe 2.0 .🤣
@@TTVEaGMXde Many later Hi8 camcorders include a TBC, it's worth picking up one of those. Digital8 camcorders also include a TBC but then you might as well just take the digital signal from Firewire as suggested elsewhere. Yes chroma is reduced resolution on DV but it's still heaps better than a lot of other capture solutions, especially when you consider the chroma resolution is limited on Video8, Hi8, VHS, SVHS, Beta and all.
My handycam doesnt have s-video :c
I use a standalone Dvd Rrecorder and a digital 8 camcorder thru firewire input on the dvd recorder Record it in highest quality 10mbps, aboit 60 minites a dvd.
You make it way too hard for yourself.
You are making it too complicated and the video quality gets hit twice, first hit analog to DV compression, second hit DV compression to mpeg-2 compression, Yikes.
Consumer analog tape formats are not the same as professional tape formats, The recording system is mediocre which uses a chroma under scheme to convert chroma to a lower frequency, the recording/playback mechanisms are not of high precision which causes timing errors in the signal, You can probably get away with a high end S-VHS deck and a Hi8 camcorder with built in line TBC that use better tape transports, but you could still be out of luck for badly recorded or worn out tapes, This is why I use stand alone professional analog capture devices that are built in TBC and use the PC for just digital SDI ingest, the capturing or conversion from analog to digital and timing/synchronization is done inside the stand alone device, this way even bad tapes are tolerated to a certain degree.
How can I digitize my hi8 tape to the computer with higher quality than OBS screen capture?
Is this video just a flex? You have access to this stuff so congrats I guess??
As others have pointed out, vhsdecode will give better results, but more importantly, the deinterlacing being performed by your video editor is atrocious. It's just throwing out half the fields, effectively halving the vertical resolution.
That's right, except Davinci Resolve (licensed version) if you use Neural Engine. Then you can compare it with QTGMC. QTGMC is slightly better, but not in all parts of the SD Video. Too difficult to explain here in the commentary.
If those are hi-8/svhs recordings, they are the worst in quality I've seen. I don't understand why. The camera seems to be in good condition, but the videos look excessively pixelated, you see "saw teeth" where there shouldn't be any.
Your video is great everything proven people like myself are fixing broken vhs movies with Scotch tape it starts playing again with out no problem's everything proven vhs tapes don't lock up at all like internet does everything proven damage blue ray disc movies doesn't play at all like vhs movies does
theres also another method for vhs, and that is to get a vhs player with hdmi output and use a hdmi capture card
Tell me more about
People like myself are buying VCR players cleaning tapes vhs movies offline now days everything proven there not hard finding online
Regular blank copy paper and 99% isopropyl only. Never use a clwaning tape
Your video looks washed out. There are better so.utions for digitizing.
The problem is not the capture itself but everything that happens in post. This video is clearly poorly deinterlaced (stairstepping, half the vertical resolution) and upscaled. And despite the 4K upload, I still see a lot of compression artifacts. These things here on CZcams are common practice here when it comes to capturing SD video. You very rarely find a good result.