The Families of the Invasion: Burke of Connacht
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Hi guys,
I hope you enjoy this video about the Burke, or #Bourke - or even #Burgh (!) - dynasty of #Ireland. They arrived during the #Norman invasions of the 12th century but quickly discovered that they liked the good folks they found here and soon became "more Irish than the Irish themselves".
It's a pretty incredible rise from low-ranking members of English society to the very pinnacle of the Irish nobility, and all within a 150 years - do make sure to share your stories in the comments if you have a link to the Burke family, and please do share the video on your social media.
And speaking of links, I mentioned a few in the video:
BURKE'S EAST GALWAY SITE: burkeseastgalwa...
IRISH HISTORY PODCAST: irishhistorypo...
If you like this series, do check out the other Irish family talks I've done:
O'BRIEN OF THOMOND: • The Families of the In...
PRENDERGAST OF WEXFORD: • Off to the Wexford Lit...
BARRY OF CORK: • The Families of the In...
I'm a novelist of books set during the Norman invasion of Ireland. If you'd like to know more find me on Twitter @ruadhbutler or on Facebook.
PLEASE DO MAKE SURE TO CHECK OUT MY NOVELS ABOUT THE NORMAN INVASION OF IRELAND:
SWORDLAND by Ruadh Butler: mybook.to/SWRDLND
LORD OF THE SEA CASTLE by Ruadh Butler: mybook.to/LordSeaCastle
THE EARL STRONGBOW by Ruadh Butler: mybook.to/EarlStrongbow
Cheers,
Ruadh
My grandma on my mothers side is a Burke and her family came from cape clear irish catholics. Her other relatives are cadogan or cadigan, O'Driscoll, Leonard. My grandpa family on his mothers side the Fosters are from Tyrone, Ireland and were irish protestant. Our families came over aound the same time they ended both headed west to Wisconsin and Illinois. Their family would again head west to Sacramento. They met in high school and was married at 17. They had 6 children. They moved to anaheim california because their burke plumbing business got a contract with a up incoming developer "Disneyland". They were married for 67 year until my grams passing. The irish romeo and Juliet lol.
My great great grandparents Burkes came to Australia in 1800’s from Co Tipperary
Amazing detail, from a Newfoundland Burke.
Wow, a really in depth look into the Burkes! I've known a little bit about my heritage but this was incredible.
Wow thanks for the in-depth research into the Burke family. I am a Burke and loved knowing about these ancestors of mine. I just wish I knew which line I was from!
Can anyone help as I know a lot of recent Irish history has been lost?
Thanks to Clans&Dynasties for the link to your site.
Oh my goodness!, so am I. I am a de Burgh I descend from General Ulysses de Burgh, 2nd Baron Downes. I believe the irish line was founded by William de Burgh, elder brother of Hubert de Burgh, 1st Earl of Kent and Geoffrey de Burgh, Bishop of Ely.
@@christopherdeportal-monck-5786 Hubert de Burgh was 5th Earl of Kent, the title kept dying out and then being resurrected.
@@KINGHB190Thank you for that. Do you have links to confirm this as I know, for example, that Chris de Burgh’s family was Burke but reverted to the old Norman name in more recent times. I think the name Burke was generally used by all different lines of the original de Burgh line (in Ireland) to anglicise themselves so I guess unless we have a DNA hereditary test we can only guess which line any of us is from. My stubbornness, strong principles and patriotic sense makes me very protective of being both Irish (for almost a millennia) and Norman. I do not suffer fools gladly, which is itself challenging in today’s society and truly believe I have my ancestors blood running through my veins. I am a warrior and stood on my principles over the 2020-2022 period and never let anyone bully me into something I did not believe in, despite the fact all around me, (including my own partner, children and life-long friends of 40/50 years) followed the herd. 😉
As a McDonald/McDonnell on my mom's side, and never knowing if we were Irish or Scottish, and mentions of County Mayo and the Scottish origins of the name sort of had my head scratching, but doing my Online research especially via the CZcams page Clans&Dynasties, I realized via the Burkes many McDonalds/McDonnells became Irish. They started in the Southwestern Isles of Scotland, a Hiberno-Norse or Norse-Gael lineage, a mix of Norwegian Viking, Irish, and Scottish, but many went to County Mayo as Gallowglass (Scottish Mercernaries) to serve the Norman Burke family of Ireland. Those McDonalds/McDonnells stayed and became localized County Mayo Irish over time. They served both factions of the Burkes in Mayo. Thats how McDonald/McDonnell/MacDonald is found in both Scotland and Ireland. The Burkes themselves were originally Normans who became Irish. So interesting history.
great stuff, very well told, very comprehensive and interesting.
I have at least 5 great grandfathers with Ulick, Uileag or Ulich as there first name going back to 1505. Sometime before the American Revolution they moved to Baltimore Maryland USA. I believe I am descended from the Clanricarde Burke’s of Galway. You mentioned that line died out in the 19 century.
Forgive me! I meant those in line to the Earldom of Clanricarde rather than those of the clan.
Thanks for this Ruadh, fascinating!
I am a direct descendant of the Bourke branch as my grandmother was a Bourke and her grandfather was governor of NSW !! In Australia !
At least we know who you support in the State of Origin match!
Interesting, and great that you haven't gone down the old de Burghs being related to all and sundry route. One comment though, all the evidence points to the de Burghs coming from Burgh-next-Aylsham near to Norwich, no link has been shown to Burgh Castle. The evidence for Burgh-next-Aylsham being the correct place is set out in the only academic biography of Hubert de Burgh, "Hubert de Burgh A Study in Constancy" by Ellis. Ellis shows that Hubert built up estates in this area. Also Powicke showed that Henry III's itinerary for a visit to Bromholm Priory only works if Burgh-next-Aylsham was Hubert's base. Finally West in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography article on Hubert de Burgh cites a contemporary document in which Burgh in the south Erpingham Hundred is listed as being 'of his heredity', so inherited and not an estate Hubert acquired. South Erpingham Hundred is bounded on its eastern side by Tunstead, Burgh Castle is further east and is not in this hundred.
I"m a Burke and find it so hard to trace my ancestry in Ireland. Is there one historical figure that all Burkes acend from?
The Irish Burkes all descend from William de Burgh, Constable of Limerick, who arrived with Prince John in 1185. There may be English descendants of his brothers and others who adopted your very famous surname in order to get a 'leg up' in life. Unfortunately you're not alone in finding difficulties tracing the family tree back - but take heart from having any link to such incredible ancestors!
@@ruadhbutler9143I'm one of the direct descendants of Hubert De Burgh, my last name is Burroughs which comes from the De Burgh name!
@@ruadhbutler9143 A lot of the irish Burkes appear not to be descended from William de Burgh, my family for example.
@@srb1346 how interesting and forgive me for the error! From one of William's brothers, or from an entirely different lineage? I'd love to know more!
@@ruadhbutler9143 No idea! There's a Burke/Burgh/Bourke Big Y700 DNA project, I've had my haplogroup done and it's not the central core de Burgh haplogroup, and others have had the same result. There's a suggestion that people may have adopted the name of the de Burghs because they owed allegiance to them. The haplogroup I'm in appears to have gone to Ireland way earlier than the de Burghs.
Egidia de Lacy, Lady of Connacht She was one of the wives of Richard Mór de Burgh, 1st Baron of Connaught.(The other was Hodierna de Gernon.)
Ruadh Butler You are a distant cousin.
Theobald le Botiller, 4th Chief Butler of Ireland, Justiciar of Ireland
1242-1285
BIRTH 1242 • Kilkenny, Ireland or, Arklow Castle, Wicklow, Ireland
DEATH 26 SEP 1285 • Arklow Castle, Wicklow, Ireland
22nd great-grandfather
I know Norman families who had sons who couldn't inherit often left them to become mercenaries like what happened in the Norman kingdom of Naples. It's very possible that a relatively unimportant Burke knight took the cross and with their links to King John and Richard it's very possible there were Burke knights in the holy land.
I am direct decedent of Col(Sir)William Burke 7th earl of clanricarde.
Hello I'm Kellie Kearney aka ocearnaigh-fox sionnach clan.I have family documents to prove Malachy is my ancestor. And when my grandpa Kearney's mother and father arrived on Ellis island their name was changed to Normoyle just on paper.
king John was some boyo too. he did the same to de courcey, de lacy, de verdon and he did to de burgh
Do you know about the "stonethrowers"in tipperary where "the green light is on top"?
Can't say that I've heard that one!
My fam owned the land on which was the kearney cottage
Hello, I hope you may be of some help to me as my Payne family seems to have been linked heavily to Ireland beginning with the Norman invasion which lasted into the 14th-c. As the case with the Butlers, my Payne’s also had, as its main English branch line, a large branch in East Anglia, one member of which I wrote to you about now.
John Payn (II) (d. 1402) of Wymondham, Norfolk, MP for Norwich, was a favorite in the affinity of the Duke of Lancaster and his son Henry- whom John went into exile with. When Henry IV became King, John was appointed “Pincerna Regis” of England.
However, I have found a Butler will from ca. 1373, that names John Payn as his heir with the title of Chief Butler of IRELAND! Again, this is from the 1370’s, years before John had been given the English title. I assume this was a consideration when King Henry appointed John to the office in England. But I have no idea if he was actually recognized with or by the title in England too?
Nevertheless, I have also traced my ancestry to this John Payn, now known to have been a son of Nicholas Payne, who held a lordship at Helhoughton and had evidently been an armorer. John Payn’s son was known as Robert Payne of Swaffham, and he died ca. 1453, after having purchased in 1410 a share in lordship of Hengrave in Suffolk with his kinsmen Edmund Winter.
It was this information that allowed me to make my family connection to John through his sons early involvement at Hengrave as two generations of my family established at the time he served as Bailiffs at Hengrave, beginning with William Payne (under the 3rd Duke of Buckingham) followed by his son, Henry Payne (d. 1568) lord of Nowton (under Sir Thomas Kytson).
In his 1568 will, the Henry Payne of Nowton, left his ”Chaucer written on vellum and illuminated in gold” to close friends, the Drurys of Hawstead, in exchange for a property consideration (they took up!). This is known to be the Ellesmere Chaucer in California and it contains Payne family graffiti within its pages…
That is important and interesting because it also ties right back to the Chief Butler John Payn who Royal itinerary records prove had a close business (and likely personnel) relationship with the Chaucer’s from whom he purchased large quantities of wine! But there is also a very interesting story to be told about John’s relationship to the Duke, eventual husband of the sister of Geoffrey Chaucer himself. These sisters were daughters of a rather mysterious character known as Payn de Roet,” Guienne King of Arms (an armorer!). Recall that John’s father was an armorer named Nicholas…
With that connection in place, it added to the Norfolk Payne’s ancestry as told by Blomefield and others that say they descend from an Adam Payne, Bishop of Cloyne (and Meath?).
There is something about all of this that has allowed me to establish a fairly convincing path to pre-Conquest Normandy to the Paynel family of Hambye, Les Moutiers Herbert, and Le Haye Pesnil. The Paynels came at the conquest and were given lands in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Somerset and Devon- and had been close to the Burghs, Lacys, Clares, Butlers, etc in England but while in Normandy had been neighbors of the Grenville, Vere, and other notables…
I have OCD that has driven my research over 20 years now and I have made a couple notable contributions to the likes of The History of Parliament and Discovery Channel. So I hope you will give this some consideration as I struggle to do this alone and without the history training needed to make sense of it more effectively.
Thank you,
Patrick Payne
Domesday to America Project
Saw a rumour that the De Burgh family come from Robert De Burgo half brother of William The Conquerer. I have no idea whether this is true or not 🤷
New one to me! The rumour I've heard most often is that they are descended (in some way) from a daughter of Richard Lionheart. I don't think there's any evidence of such ancestry so I think we've to put it with the Butlers-descended-from-Thomas Becket claims - not impossible, but most likely unprovable.
@@ruadhbutler9143 I know that the legend of how the De Burgh/Burke family got out crest was that Hubert De Burgh fought alongside Richard the Lionheart in the crusades and gave them that crest.
According to legend Richard the Lionheart saw a dead Saracen generals shield and picked it up dipped his fingers into the blood of the dead Saracen general and put the blood in the shape of a crucifix over the golden shield and that's apparently how they got that as their family crest.
@@rippersubmissionwrestling2704 Hubert de Burgh almost certainly didn't fight alongside Richard, he first appears in the records as working for King John. Hubert de Burgh's heraldry is recorded and it wasn't a crucifix over a golden shield, his arms are mentioned three times in the records, all with slight differences, they are all verisons of "lozengy gules and vair".
@@srb1346 I did a legend, not truth! I know a legend isn't fact
Another rumour or legend. I've looked into this and Robert Count of Mortain was never called "de Burgo", you can trace his descendants and none had anything to do with the de Burghs. All sorts of legends were created in the 17th and 18th centuries about the de Burghs and all of them are easy to disprove.
Have you heard of the Veneti tribe that re took Brittany? Robert the Bruce comes from this tribe and they re United under st. Padarn...
Bit outside my era (of expertise), I'm afraid!
@@ruadhbutler9143 quite facinating. Look to the electronic book on Rakutan called “the tribe within”. It is a great book on the history of Ireland being conquered by them after the Romans got them out of there homeland after many years of war inside Brittany. That’s when they went to Ireland and then some 500 years later re United under there symbols that a man named st. Padarn wore and went around the UK for 7 years re uniting the old clan.. they then re took Brittany. I highly suggest this book to someone like yourself.
@@ruadhbutler9143 these families are from the veneti tribe. Highly recommend you read this book... it is all backed by records and DNA
This is my family
😻
I just found biological mother and her maiden name is Burke.
It wasn't Henry's to gift away.
No. It wasn't. He did it anyway.
I'm descendant of burkes by fitzgerald more...
I am a descendant of Bourke and Whipps !!!
Im the real joseph bourke
I know a secret
Truly fascinating. I’ve never known any of my family. Would be incredible to finally find who I’m related too! 🩷