PLAYERS AS REFEREES?! 👀 Simon Jordan and Martin Keown DISAGREE on if players should become officials
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2022
- Simon Jordan and Martin Keown discuss whether or not players should turn to officiating once their playing careers are over!
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He's right, can you image Keown giving a penalty against Spurs?
Keown went to war with so many rival clubs during his playing days the FA would probably have difficulty finding any fixtures for him to referee. "Where shall we send Keown first game of the season? White Hart Lane?" "Nope. Martin played for Arsenal." "Elland Road?" Nope. Martin stamped all over Mark Viduka" "Old Trafford?" "After the Battle of Highbury?! Are you f***ing mental, mate?!"
Everyone wants to complain about referees, but very few would ever step into their shoes. Simon is correct, there is no financial incentive. At grass roots level, the pay is very weak and the amount of dissent, hostility, and pressure is not offset by or reflected in the pay. As a result, nearly 70% of all new referees quit within the first year.
Its the same at amateur levels. More than 50% of new referees quit within the first year.
Piss logic
Well people beed to stop being wankers on touch line and be more respectable same goes with the players
@@Flipmode1900 explain
I can kinda see what Keown is saying about who you could referee for or against depending on ur allegiance, but that already happens as an Englishman wouldnt ref an England game
He is stating the absolute obvious which we all know. You just wouldn't referee that particular game. There are 9 other games on in the league you could ref!
that was one of the best refereeing performances ive seen, totally deserving of a World Cup final
I agree. He did amazing
💯 %.
I swear, it's like the guy had an AI in his head.
Even the dive by Marcus Thuram to try and get a penalty, he was right there to see it and booked Thuram immediately for simulation.
I agree with Keown on the point that when you're a player at a certain level it would be difficult to then referee at certain grounds when you played for a rival. He's 100 percent correct that there will be accusations of bias, right or wrong.
Simon is being dense on this topic. What Martin is saying is plain and simple. If we take Martin as an example, can anyone imagine what he will go through taking charge of a City game right now and he makes a bad call? He will be accused of doing it for Arsenal.
Exactly. What hard to understand about this. Jim is just a set up merchant for Simon. It's nothing to do with finance. It's the backlash from rivals fanbases.
Simon has the same blind spot when it comes to putting ex-pros in the VAR booth. He's said several times in the past that if a league two level player was in there officiating on a Premier League game, then people would have a problem with it, but I don't think that's the main issue.
The main issue is the fact that ex-pros have all kinds of allegiances and dislikes within the game, and it's not just as simple as they will favour the clubs they played for and dislike those clubs rivals, etc. Players have their own personal likes and dislikes of certain clubs. Not to mention players and managers. There are too many pitfalls where bias could be a factor which are impossible to navigate. I don't know why Simon cannot see that is the main and only real concern. And it'd be exactly the same problem with ex-pros officiating _on_ the pitch.
@@FreshAlchemy well said. If something is going to cause a issue. Prevent it and don't go further. Again agree with you how does simon not see this
Why does it always seem like Jim sides with Simon against Martin whenever these 3 are together 😂
Literally because Keown is a total Gimp
Lol. Martin called them out on that last Friday. In fun way but spirited as always 😂
Martín seems kinda a dense. One of his that former players will be biased.
When they are refs right now, that weren't former players that are damn biased.
If you bring in former players as refs and couple it together with post match accountability, it could very well work.
It's what you learn in journalism. You have to make it epically now in the social media word. Eye balls on this channel. Simon is a snake but amazing to have in your company as he would push boundaries.
Could listen to Simon & Jim all day grilling the living daylights of the person in the chair lol
Keown….Souness….Danny Mills….it’s just brilliant 😂😂
Murphy as well and if only Trevor was still on😂😂
@@kierankumar5801 Trevor got brain damage trying to figure out all the insults hurled his way! 🤣
The Jim Jordan Show 🤔
A bit to much one-sided 💥
Think murphy is about the only one that can handle the heat of that chair
@@kierankumar5801 lol
Simon called Danny mills the village idiot the other day 😂 can’t wait for his next appearance
Btw this Polish referee in final was amazing.
Yes he was amazing
He was good. But he should have warned Martinez before the penalty shoot-out about repeating the same off-putting antics that he displayed against Holland. 'Do any more of that sunshine and you'll be instantly carded. You don't want Little Leo to be between the Argy sticks and wearing the gloves for the remainder of the French penalties'.
@@darrenlee9237 he was carded though
This could easily not be the case, but I feel the reason many players don't want to go into refereeing because it's totally abnormal to the environment they're used to. If a player has played for 17+ years, they're either so sick of football they just want to retire, but others coach so they can be in the same environment they were as a player. there's a familiarity to it. None of these players want to step in and be a ref when it's said and done because they don't want to run that much if they don't have to, and many don't want to be held accountable if they make an error in a game officiating.
Respect the ref and his decision, end of. From then on, all tweaks and fiddles to improve outcomes, will actually do that - Improve outcomes.
The Jim Jordan Show 💥
"I totally agree Jordan""
Grilling Keown. Good points by Martin.
Martin is spot on
This is just good radio! 10/10 love the entire show today
I think the difference between the job of a cricket umpire and a football referee. For example, the primary job of the on field umpire is to call no balls, caught behind, LBW etc., apart from LBW most of the calls are more objective in nature than some of the calls that football referees have to do.
If something is a penalty or not we can have arguments from both sides in the critical cases... But I don't think the same subjectivity exists in cricket.
This in turn plays a part in mitigating the biases in decision making. Because ultimately, if a referee is judged to be biased even in such scenario, he or she will get less chances...
The fact that they've to praise a ref tells you something.
Martin made a good point about the disgraceful shithousery Martinez was allowed to get away with during the penalty shootout
I love how Keown puts his glasses on as soon as Simon starts using big words
This ref was pretty good, specially for a heated final.
Please take Keown off the air. If he was a superhero he would be the Contradictor!
Jim goes so far up Simons backside whenever Martin's in the building!
There is a bias, why does Jim sound so surprised, he knows that's the case.
Someone's left the door open & Martin has got out, again.
And here he finds himself again, sitting in a studio with Jim White and Clare Balding.
Matin keown the DUP of pundentry whatever his agent is getting paid he needs to treble it how he gets these gigs is beyond me
I bet Martin Keown can spell better than you.
Every video Martins in - he says a whole lot, without saying anything at all.
Keown is spot on here, players like him could not referee an Arsenl game, a tottenham game, a Chelsea game, Man Utd game Liverpool game because everyone would know he has that bias toward Arsenal, Frank Lampard with Chelsea, Gerrard with Liverpool etc. Fans would be crying about bias and have the figures and facts to back them up whereas right now fans wonder if a certain ref is bias towards another
Not all solutions are right, I’m not with Simon on this. It sounds good but isn’t practical.
Premier league or FA can still recruit refs who are former players from abroad, doesn't have to be former Premier league players. I'm sure there would be lots of decent refs who played for example in Spanish 2nd division, of polish top tier ect ect
I SWEAR SIMON AND JIM ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP
Martin makes sense here. We already bash referees who support a rival side when they play against our teams. Imagine a top flight player. Like Martin said imagine he ref a spurs or United game. Their fanbase would be livid and if he didn't do nothing of a 💯 clean game they were slate him from pillar to post.
They just picking on Martin, trying to make in a imbecile and not worthy. Jim is such a snake, just setting the fire for Simon to come in.
spot on
Ex-footballers can't be honest on the radio about their mates who still play.
I can’t believe I’m going to say this but for once I actually agree with Martin. For players to go for hypothetical “refereeing badges” early as they may do with management ones, it’s a whole different dynamic for that player to then retire from their football club which they have loyalty to, and enter straight into a field role that requires them to be completely unbiased, fresh out of harbouring resentment for certain teams and love and passion for other ones
Maybe if you haven't played the game you shouldn't be allowed to manage a team? Or part-own Crystal Palace?
Whenever old men are old this show it’s always quarreling, I prefer when the young guys talk like gentlemen, I’ll watch when the younger lads return on the show
Ex players are fast tracked through the coaching system. Same should happen for refereeing
Once players see the wages in other top European leagues for officials you may see ex premiership players learning a new language
I doubt that there are many ex-players that could even pass the refereeing qualification. Having done coaching badges, I also seriously doubt that all the ex-players, that have become coaches, have had to sit the same exams, there's probably a fast track.
SJ love it
I do agree with martin with this. If the ref who played for the team you are reffing and makes a dodgy decision every supporter manager and press would rip him apart.
Keown fighting the entertainment media alone!
Simon vs jim vs martin is golden
Sometimes I feel Simon just wants to object anything Martin says, Martin is absolutely right about that.
Everyone will point fingers and scrutinise every decision he makes and say he’s biased
VAR continuously proves how bad refs their perception of what happened, understanding of the game, ability to establish facts and ability to establish cause-effect and assigning responsibility can be. Add to that the systemic failure in the application of VAR. Add to that some rules over the years were so poorly thought out it's baffling that a group of people actually went "okay, we're gonna approve and apply this."
Become a ref then mate and show them all how it's done. Teach them how to have eyes in the back of their head and teach them how to see the game on the pitch the same way as you view the game on your TV screen from the comfort of your house. Best of luck with it kid!
Okay so Martin Keown was trending on Twitter earlier was this why? lol
You alienated me at trending and lost me at twitter.
Martin has never lost his slightly West Country accent, think he’s from Oxford originally.
Simons wrong in thinking its only football where refs are scrutinised and abused, fans of every sport boo decisions, go online and blame the refs etc.
I follow sports from different parts of the world and every weekend there's a big ref decision being discussed online and by pundits on TV.
Maybe but for the major sports. Refs in football get the most slack. The 'slack' is the norm in football.
If he ever watched the NBA, he will throw his television out the window.
NBA refs are a different level of thrash.
@@avtar1699 football is bigger than other sports, especially in Uk so obviously you see more of it because you follow the sport and people who discuss it too.
I watch AFL and the Aussies are just as tough on the umpires in that.
It’s literally in every sport there is, more people watch and comment on football that’s all.
I didn't think Di Maria was a pen
Honestly, I feel ashamed to be an Arsenal fan every time Martin speaks
We still love him, leave it out
We don't!
The only players who would be interested is former lower league players
Sure let's get Manc like Gary Neville being an official doing a Merseyside derby and let's see Everton getting all decisions to their side.
Thought the referee was class and is 1 of the reasons it was a great game
really I thought it was a great game but got 2 penalty calls wrong and gestured towards certain players like he was a big man cos he had cameras on him protecting him from a slap.
Yeh he shouldn't be overlooked. He was spot on throughout and no-one realises the pressure of being given that game, the anxiety and stress levels that his family must be going through. BUT Martin is right for once, I don't think you'd allow Robbie Fowler to referee Everton v Liverpool, NO WAY the Blues would go mental, it's too tribal. I think they need academies and training like any other profession, but Keown couoldn't manage a UTD game NO CHANCE.
I love how you have passionate discussion based on lie... he played in yougsters, spend some time in Germany 4 division, later in lower polish divisions up to III League and he finished his career as a pro player at 21y old
ex-players should be part of a VAR team bot unlike with the commentators.players have a feel that the VAR officials lack
Players dive, cheat and bend the rules to gain an advantage. Players should not be referees - they are not impartial or ethically lead. You need people outside the game in order to see the bigger picture! Even VAR has not prevented players from diving - they know they are being filmed, but still take their chances because they don't get sent off for cheating.
Refs are conditioning players to act/play a certain way. The modern diving is a direct result of referees being shite at being able to tell what's a foul and what isn't. The confusion about handball is a direct result of poor laws and refereeing.
I hate this! Fast tracking former players is total nonsense. It diminishes great referees we've got in the system who have started from the bottom. Just because you've played DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN MAKE REFEREEING DECISIONS!!!
Otamendi brings makes the foul for the penalty and doesn’t get booked? In what world wouldn’t you book him
I love Simon Jordan
Serious comment for other listeners......What is the point of Martin Kewon??
It’s intriguing for Martin to suggest bias and that morally it would be wrong for ex pros at top level leagues to officiate matches but when it came down to writing an article about Ars v Spurs he didn’t mind not telling the entire truth to support his bias, but didn’t think it was an issue of journalistic integrity.
Doesn’t directly impact the game tho does it
@@emcee6915 Is the implication here that being biased wouldn’t impact the game?
Cause, the integrity I’m speaking of is Martin claiming that no current Spurs players enters the roster for the current Arsenal roster before their derby. When questioned post match he admitted that he didn’t believe it and was writing it to support Arsenal and Arteta. He was paid to write that article and didn’t mind letting it become propaganda. If in one professional engagement he shows that kind of favouritism, the odds are that allowed to referee the match he could let his bias take over to affect the game.
Which penalty did the referee miss? Thuram divided!! Keown definitely didn't want Argentina winning the final 😂😂😂
Keown is right
Is Simon purposefully misunderstanding Martins point about bias? How can he not understand why people would question Martin Keown refereeing Arsenal V Spurs?! 🤦♂️
He's done that in debates about putting ex-pros in the VAR booth too. He seems to think the main problem would be, for example, a league two level player officiating a Premier League game, when in fact, the blatantly bigger logistical problem would be identifying and avoiding all of each players' individual biases (both positive and negative). Biases which often extend beyond just clubs and also into managers which they may have had some kind of previous positive or negaitve relationship with and the same could apply albeit to a lesser extent, to certain players also.
It is quite mind boggling how or why Simon refuses to take such valid concerns onboard.
Personally I can't understand why so many people are clinging to the notion that in this hypothetical situation, an ex Arsenal player would actually be assigned as a ref in a North London derby. That just would never happen so Martin using that as the main reason against this notion of ex-players being refs isn't a very robust argument in my view.
If the referee’s answered why they make certain decisions rather than them hiding after games then they wouldn’t be as vilified.
Was I dreaming or did I see Macron on the podium shaking hands with Messi and ARG players as they going for their medals??
I like the idea of ex players becoming referees after their playing careers are over but sadly it's highly unappealing based on the limited wages in refereeing compared to management or punditry which are routes which all ex pros take. I suspect Frank Lampard and Gareth Southgate would rather be $#!+ Managers for the rest of their lives than becoming a top referee.
It is also a comfort and fitness thing, you still have to be in shape and be sharp it is a completely different skill Level. Management is a prestige position, punditry makes you a media personality, what glory gets you in being a referee nothing you are a servant of the game no one wants that for so little money.
If you seriously think "all" ex-pros go into either management or punditry then I'm afraid you're extremely stupid.
@@maragathm A large part of it is personal motivation. If ex-pros step onto a football pitch again they want to be playing. Most of them miss the game and would do anything to be able to still play like they used to. They overwhelmingly don't want to live out a second life as a bloody referee, running around pitches they used to play on, and getting abused by fans everywhere they go. Yes, of course the money is an issue but even back when players weren't paid so well, there's a reason none of them wanted to become referees then either!
There are far more reasons why an ex-pro wouldn't want to become a referee than there are reasons why they would want to.
Simon is a strategic thinker, he looks at issues long and hard. Martin thinks football through his lived experiences as a former professional. Both make sense.
Jim is a Simon-skewed catalyst, he glides along with Simon on everything 😂.
Pithy discussions.
Simon = Top LAD Proper Clobber 💯 Facts
I really enjoy listening to Simon and Jim, but Martin keown grinds my gears so much with how on the fence he is on everything 🤦♂️
Martin is idealistic... too idealistic.
I can’t understand Martin is he doing this on purpose or he has issues
In understanding
Or he doesn’t want or he doesn’t like that the other make sense….
He was the worst ever ref. I ever seen he called the first penalty when that was not penalty, he let offside goal. This was the worse ref ever. FIFA wanted Argentina to win so we all know the corruption of the football world.
Always reminds of what my mother used to say when I was a kid " Two is company, three is a crowd " 🤣 martin always seems to be swimming upstream 🤣🤣🤣
martin and simon disagree ! shock horror😮
The way Jim looks at Simon for approval Is shocking!!
By keowns theory any player who retired couldn't go on to manage any other club than the one he played for as he would be biased when playing that team
@dannytallmage2409 there is no difference. You are professional and don't allow your decisions to be influenced by who you played for
@dannytallmage2409 what an oddly racist comment from you there. Why would you even think about the colour of someone matters in the context of this )
I don't see an issue with an ex player becoming a referee. Most players play for at least 2 teams throughout their career so If they become a ref and are officiating a match between the last two teams that they played for and love equally who are they going to be biased against? We keep overextending for the sake of trying to please everyone.
So you're naively suggesting that players don't have all kinds of allegiances and biases within the game? It extends beyond teams they played for, it goes to managers they like or dislike, or players they like or dislike. And players have far more complicated likes and dislikes of football teams than just the ones they played for or against. Lots of players for instance dislike historically big teams like Man Utd or Liverpool for their own personal reasons. It's a can of worms which is impossible to logistically avoid.
@@FreshAlchemy Not naively my friend. The root of the discussion is that the guy is asking if people who have played the game would be better at officiating from the point of "Skill" and "Knowledge" and that answer is yes.
One solution would be to have past players who become refs to officiate in leagues that they did not play in or in matches between teams that they (on paper) should not have any or much affinity for. The fact is if we want it done there are many ways it can be done.
Nevertheless, I, personally, don't think that the officiating is that disastrous that we need to overall the program. Officiating in sports overall is a difficult task.
It's true there is a lack of respect for football referees that doesn't exist in cricket and even rugby. I think former players would understand the game better and exercise more simple common sense.
Simon Jordan isnt listening to what Martin Keown is saying. He's talking about the inability for an ex professional premier league player to truly referee a premier league game fairly. Perhaps the solution is to referee in a different league
It's not about the money
Simon v Martin is like kicking a dead mouse.
Not if you're objective, it isn't.
@@FreshAlchemy I would say basing a point around the hypotheical example of Keown reffing a City game is not objective.
It's preposterous! It's the elephant in the room !!
He fock up some call's yesterday very poor at the highest level
The ref discussion is absurd. of course top pros will not become referees. say they retire at 36 then they are not going to spend 5 years reffing in minor games to go on to possibly becoming a top flight referee. totally absurd
👍
Keown doesnt have a point there. Id imagine all referees are football fans. It’s likely that most of the prem referees support premier league sides. They’re just not appointed to be the referee for games where they may show bias. Keown saying that he wouldn’t be able to referee games featuring arsenal, doesnt prove a point. He could be the ref for other games that have no direct impact on arsenal. That happens now. Simon is right, ex footballers will never become refs because not only is the salary a million miles away from theirs. But they also know how criticised they’d be, because they criticise refs heavily every week. And a lot of ex players simply can’t accept criticism.
NBA refs makes 300k/yr
His mistakes didn’t make sense, the man was picking and choosing when to be a good referee
He didn't like french players winning headers. Messi flying headbutt on Theo Hernandez was Arg freekick. To me it made sense. He took away France's aerial advantage.
Simon is so "intelligent" that he's invented his own word at 2:11
its a real word lol
He makes up works often. He also drops a lot of malopropisms. He also often mispronounces words which seemingly he saw in his dictionary but doesn't know how they're meant to sound when spoken. He tries so hard to convince people he's clever, which is usually the sign of a pseudo-intelligent wannabe.
@@samuelblower8939 its not
5 Argentina refs Vs Portugal in the Morocco game… I seen a bias with no var hand ball check
Think a lot of the games were the same… most corrupt World Cup I’ve ever seen…
No chat Today … boring
Simon is Jordan and Martin is Keown and never the twain shall meet,.
Oh my gosh why does Martin have a platform his views and arguments and ridicules!
Ex players should be refs - nothing wrong with that at all
Loves it when Jordan and Keown do battle. Don't think there has ever been an occasion where Martin has won., 😂😂😂 keep it Simon!
Martin was 100% correct on this one. He couldn't ref a UTD game no way. The pathway is not open for a REASON, football is WAY TOO TRIBAL.
Martin Keown won today
Keown, has to be the worst pundit on the show. He’s all over the place. Maybe he took to many balls to the head over his career. “Harry Kane is a national hero” 😮
You haven't seen Danny Mills.
The intellectual imbalance is frightening!!!
I fully believe that being a player in some capacity gives you an advantage when becoming a referee. But to say that former professionals would make better referees is sheer nonsense.
most referees are players that didnt make it
Referre live var👽👽👽
Keown is the equivalent of a woke person on a political debate, totally devoid of common sense
He wasn’t fantastic at all..could have let play go on, could have been a red card, constantly let players do tackle after tackle without showing a card
Please watch Alpha and omega productions to hear what's really important.