A Smash Brothers Reboot Roster Ramble!
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2023
- Lots of things to talk about in this description so bear with me. First off, everyone give a warm welcome to Carson, the latest thumbnail editor on this channel! Y'all will be seeing more art for them soon, this'll allow me to throw out more content more often!
Here are the Anna movesets I described in the video, feel free to check em out:
One by DittoMaster:
docs.google.com/document/d/1d...
And another by MeatMage:
docs.google.com/document/d/13...
Next, as explained in the video, my main artist MadArts is in a bind and I'd like to try and exploit this parasocial platform to lend him a helping hand. I have commissioned a community banner, something to showcase this little corner of the internet that's come together, and anyone wishing to be a part of that just needs to send a donation to MadArts's Paypal, describe in the payment the avatar/character/object they want on the banner, and it will be so! On top of financing the initial banner I will also be matching whatever it is my audience can raise up, so whatever you can spare will be doubled!
Please lend some assistance to MadArts if you can, working with him has brought me so much joy and I'd like to continue doing so for as long as I'm making videos. At the very least send him some good vibes on Twitter, he could really use it.
MadArts's Paypal can be found here:
paypal.me/MadArtsXIII?country...
And his Twitter can be found here:
/ madartsxiii
As for the video itself, while it obviously was pushed to see the light of day to signal boost MadArts, I am still quite pleased with the idea behind it. I might be so bold as to claim its one of the best reboot rosters I've seen, even if the custom moves and live service model didn't come to fruition, it's a solid balance of veterans and newcomers while still staying small enough to avoid hampering the evolution of the core gameplay. Lemme know any thoughts you all may have about it, and if any of you can come up with a reboot roster that can compete, I'd be curious to see it! - Hry
It always gives me a chuckle when I see people throw around their rebooted rosters, only for that roster to still be around the same size as Smash 4's. Kinda misses the point, no? If the roster is still too big to implement sweeping changes in any meaningful way there's no point in rebooting in the first place, the end result would just be a lesser Smash Ultimate. Nah, you gotta get your hands bloody for a reboot, full-on scorched earth, if the importance of Yoshi isn't being called into question ya haven't gone far enough.
Since I lacked a traditional outro I'll throw it here, I would be extremely curious to hear any reboot rosters that people feel are better than this one. Even without the potential live service/custom move shenanigans I'll be prideful enough to claim I think I've found the perfect sweet spot of "Small enough to be a proper reboot, diverse enough to still feel like an impactful crossover, enough newcomers to still catch people's attention", but I would love to see if anyone out there can one up me!
Just gonna copy/paste the information from the description for helping MadArts for any mobile viewers out there:
As explained in the video, my main artist MadArts is in a bind and I'd like to try and exploit this parasocial platform to lend him a helping hand. I have commissioned a community banner, something to showcase this little corner of the internet that's come together, and anyone wishing to be a part of that just needs to send a donation to MadArts's Paypal, describe in the payment the avatar/character/object they want on the banner, and it will be so! On top of financing the initial banner I will also be matching whatever it is my audience can raise up, so whatever you can spare will be doubled!
Please lend some assistance to MadArts if you can, working with him has brought me so much joy and I'd like to continue doing so for as long as I'm making videos. At the very least send him some good vibes on Twitter, he could really use it.
MadArts's Paypal can be found here:
paypal.me/MadArtsXIII?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US
And his Twitter can be found here:
twitter.com/madartsxiii
Neat
Yeah, I agree!
One thing. Melee technically had 26 characters. Remember, sheik and Zelda were a swap character with completely unique movesets that ate up dev time. So who gets the extra spot left over?
@@Somedumbasswithbadideas Dixie
@@TheDukeofDorks wait, Diddy and Dixie are a swap character? I thought they were an ice climbers style duo. Not complaining though
Really appreciate the warm welcome, glad to be a part of the team! I can't wait to see what the future holds!
Awesome thumbnail carson👍
Welcome to the team!
These ideas for the live service aspect has so much potential, it would be interesting if Nintendo would be willing to take on that challenge as I could easily see custom moves being behind paywalls like a gacha draw or a battlepass.
I would be fine with putting costumes behind some kind of battlepass, but custom moves that affect gameplay should always be earnable via gameplay. Maybe some kind of earnable in-game currency that lets you keep up with buying new content for the characters one likes, but would require splurging to fully keep up.
OR, do something goofy and lock custom moves behind wacky requirements that can be bypassed via transaction. Like, "If an explosive item detonates Team Rocket 1000 times, they will unlock the custom move for their Weezing to use Self Destruct". That feels like a very Nintendo way to do it, you can get this stuff for free or pay for it right now, but the free route is gonna require some goofy shenanigans first.
@The Duke of Dorks yeah thats a Nintendo thing to do, and probably the best thing. Nintendo absolutely hates Micro-Transactions, and will literally only do DLC if the think that the game could have had more, if given more time, which why their always dirt cheap.
A live service game will always be a double-edged sword, and we have a plethora of examples, including from Nintendo, that show the problems with that model. Your reboot idea sounds interesting, and I definitely like the idea of a smaller roster in exchange of customizable loadouts, but it could very easily go awry because of content drought, like Overwatch.
Multiversus was a live service game, look at how that turned out.
Live service games are good, as long as the company behind sign a legally binding contract that automatically transfers to anyone who gains the rights to the series in any way for any reason that they will absolutely never at any point in history stop providing the service.
@@Silverwind87 but hey it's back now (apparently [still little to no buzz about it])
If Smash ever becomes a live service all I pray for is that they don’t implement anything near a battle pass. The closest they could get to that would be Splatoon 3's catalogue system, but just like there it should be aesthetics only
I like the idea of a Smash Game that gets updated overtime. Instead of a new game with new assests. I just hope there wouldn't be a season pass or a lootcrate system for new characters, custom moves, and costumes. I feel like that would ruin Smash as a brand.
Honestly, this is a really cool roster concept! For a few things I'd like to discuss specifically:
- Actually having trainers go along with the pokemon outside of PT just adds way more personality to the character, I think that's nice
- Retro ness looks great, I love that you chose that design
- putting all the FE lords in one slot is great to open up more options for FE characters! (if it were live-service I hope that an armor knight character would eventually be added)
- rip pit, but hey shulk got in so that's ok by me
- Team Rocket may be one of my favorite character ideas I've seen in a while - just the pure amount of personality they'd add to the game would be great!
Speaking of the Stuff you just mentioned
Could we please just make it to where we only have two Pokemon Characters and only 2 FE characters
We really do not need more freaking Pokemon or FE characters in Smash Bros
Add in more Donkey Kong characters
Add in more Earthbound/Mother characters
Add In more Kirby Characters
And come back next year
I like a lot of ideas here. I love being able to customize the characters a lot and you have a big take on really advancing the series a lot which I appreciate.
I do think some of your choices are kinda funky tbh but overall a solid list. Like I would have Dedede or Magolor over Dark Matter, replace Rocket with a newer Pokémon, and I can go on a whole speal on why Shulk might not be the best character for Xenoblade, but overall a solid list.
Curious why Shulk might not be the best character, if you're willing to go on that schpeel, how is the defacto face of the franchise whose impact is felt on every game in some way not the correct choice?
Also keep in mind that the Rockets could use all the Pokemon they've gathered over the years and generations, same with Red, it's a much better showcase of all the generations, it's just putting the proper characters in the spotlight to use them.
@@TheDukeofDorks I do like the rocket idea a lot, it’s just I feel like there should be a non gen 1 representation. Maybe have Mewtwo as dlc idk but I like your idea a lot.
For Shulk it’s so so interesting since he, Rex Pyra and Mythra, and Noah and Mio have almost equal reasons they should be in smash.
Shulk
-First protagonist of the series
-The Monado is the 2nd most important symbol in the series
-Is in every game in the series in some way
-A form of Klaus who is the most important character in the series
-The first Xenoblade character in Smash
-Can have a lot of customization with Monado Arts
Rex, Pyra, and Mythra
-From the most popular game in the series
-Pyra and Mythra are the most popular characters in the series
-Pyra and Mythra are apart of the Trinity Processor which is the most important symbol in the whole series
-Overall Pyra and Mythra represent the whole Xeno metaseries the best (Zohar Symbol, Split Personality)
-Rex can have a ton of customization with Blades so he can have Pyra, Mythra, Roc, Catalyst, Wulfric, and so much more
Noah and Mio
-Newcomers which is probably the biggest factor out of everything here
-Have a lot of new moveset material with classes, Interlinking, and Lucky 7 which entails a ton of customization without being as difficult to add as Blades are for Rex
-They represent both Xenoblade 1, 2, and 3 really well because of the nature of 3
Overall a lot of these are probably not factors to how most people would pick a character, but to me it’s so difficult to choose which ones would be in smash (because to be frank Xenoblade isn’t getting more then 1 slot at base). I didn’t even mention KOS-MOS, Elma, or Jin and Lora who could all potentially be characters. Overall I can see Shulk in a new game, but he is just as likely as Rex Pyra and Mythra, and Noah and Mio are.
@@TheDukeofDorks I liked your Fire Emblem Idea of combining then into one roster but I feel like you could go one step further, let me explain. In the newest fire emblem game (fire emblem engage) their is a new gimmick of “emblem rings” which bring back old fire emblem characters to fight with you, I feel like it’d be a lot cooler if you play as Alear(the newest protagonist) and each alt is a different emblem ring. There are 12 rings rn and every past fire emblem fighter of smash is also an emblem ring. It’s be like Joker and Arsene but the emblem ring fighter would be a much bigger part.
I think it’d be really cool.
Personally
Give throw in DedeDe, Magolor, and Dark Matter in the next Smash Bros (The Kirby Series needs more love)'
That plus bring back Meta Knight
And Add in Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn
Adeleine And Ribbon From Kirby 64
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Knuckle Joe
Gooey
Marx
Daroach
Ect............................................................
@@dylansmith5206 absolutely no way we are adding knuckle joe i always hated that guy.
I feel like the massive customization idea sort of defeats the point of the live service model. That makes the ease of reimplementing Targets or Platforms into the series moot as some characters would need a lot more work, or you just run the risk of customization only being a factor for the base roster, with later added characters having little to none to get them out on time.
This was a really interesting video. It's definitely a lot to take in, given that it's such a radical reimagining of the series. I'll fully admit I've been one of those "reboot the series, but with a roster the size of Smash 4's" guys you mentioned in your comment, but this video did a lot to make me rethink that perspective and how feasible it actually is. I think a reboot on the scale you're suggesting is still very scary to think about, but I'm glad someone's willing to throw the possibility out there and get people thinking about it.
There is definitely some allure in the live-service idea, and you make a number of great points for it, though Nintendo's never gotten anywhere close to making a live-service game on this scale, and I don't really trust them to stick the landing. If they executed it well I think it'd be perfect for the series, but I'd be very skeptical that that could happen. Not saying it couldn't happen either, just that I wouldn't bet on it.
As for the roster itself, I think it is solid enough for a 25 character roster. Though with the importance you placed on newcomers, I do wonder if Shulk could potentially be swapped out for a brand new Xenoblade character. But I've never played the series so I have no idea if there's a character that would be worthy of taking Shulk's spot. And then there's Dark Matter. Part of me kinda loves the idea just because it's so unique and out there. The other part of me looks at it and just says "you had 25 spots to represent the entire company and THAT'S the character you choose?" People are already gonna be very pissed off about the limited launch roster, and I feel like adding a character nobody's asking for who most non-Kirby fans won't even recognize is just asking for that character to be subjected to a lot of hate and pointed to as "everything wrong with the new Smash." Then again, people will be pissed with the roster with or without him, so maybe at that point it doesn't really matter.
I guess the real question I have with this reboot would be: Is this what people are actually going to want? I know there definitely are people who want a massive change to the series, and more who are at least open to the idea. But from what I see, I think a majority of people are perfectly happy with Smash Bros moreorless doing the same thing over and over again. And if you can satisfy those people with the same mechanics and a big roster every time, what would they really gain from venturing into completely uncharted territory that will be met with a lot of pushback, in the hopes that it might turn out well in the end? I just feel like a move like this might not make the most sense from a business perspective. Of course I'm not saying that should dissuade you from personally thinking this would make for a better game. I do think the people who just want them to keep making Ultimate but with more and more characters are a little closeminded. I'm just trying to consider it from the lens of what's actually feasible.
Speaking of Kirby
Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters-
Magolor
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn
DaRoach
Knuckle Joe
Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64
Gooey
Marx
Ect......................................................
I love your reboot ideas! I think the perfect third party character for your move customization system would be the one and only *Dr. Eggman* ! His numerous robots, eggmobiles, and appearances would provide a plethora of customization options, and he would add another villain to the roster.
maybe he would be added alongside sonic and potentially tails?
I think Maxwell would be the more customizable one. but he would probably not make it into Smash if Multiversus is still a thing in the future.
Speaking of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman
In addition to him
Give me these Sonic characters in the next Smash Game
Knuckles
Tails
Amy Rose
Metal Sonic
Blaze The Cat
Silver
Ect...........................................................................................................
I absolutely love any idea that involves cutting down the roster in order to completely revamp everyone from the ground up, as well as the core mechanics. I'm really glad you brought up how "I'm happy with this being the end of Smash in it's current form" and using other platform fighters as examples of how you could improve upon the formula. Although I was skeptical of your live service model idea, you managed to sell me on it. 5 characters a year + modes and other goodies sounds great, combined with your customization proposal.
Speaking of, that customization aspect feels like it'll REALLY help everyone on the cast achieve their full potential; things like "why didn't they include this move?" and "I wish this character played just a little differently" wouldn't really be said as much anymore if something like this was implemented. Genius concept, already elevates the value of a smaller roster considerably.
The perfect smash reboot/sequel is just all the characters being replaced with Rayman wearing costumes.
Speaking of Rayman
In addition to him
Please also bring back Cloud, Snake. and Kazuya
That plus bring in these guys
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro The Dragon
Klonoa
Abe From Oddworld
Gex The Gecko
Jill Or Leon From Resident Evil
Lara Croft From Tomb Raider
The Pyramid Head From Silent Hill 2
To where we can finally have a proper version of PlayStation All Stars
Nice concept. I definitely see potential in the new mechanics you mentioned. Maybe the meter could be tied to the final smash gauge. On the first level of charge, the next move you throw out will be stronger. Second level, all your stats (power, movement speed, jump height, weight, frame data, etc) are amplified for a brief time. Third level, you summon an assist specific to your character who can either perform one strong attack and then bail, or stick around and constantly burn through your meter. And the Fourth stage will be your actual final smash.
Amazing! Incredible video, you have a very good ideas for smash ^^
That's a really intresting roster concept!
It is a very well thought out selection of characters, barring Dark Matter and the Rockets (since they aren't that active in their franchises nowadays).
The mechanical ideas are also good, but I do disagree about the customization. In theory it makes a lot of sense, but from my experience with the genre, it usually brings more harm than good.
I agree, I think Smash 4 was going in the right direction, by only having the specials be customazible, having that much variety and customization would make for a nightmare in balancing, and would be even worse for online and competitive play, since it would take forever for you to get used to the characters variables, it would also take a lot of time and resources too
Speaking of Dark matter
Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters-
Magolor
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn
DaRoach
Knuckle Joe
Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64
Gooey
Marx
Ect......................................................
I’m stunned, as that was a lot of thought-provoking ideas you tossed around! Here are my thoughts:
Part 1: The Live-Service Pitch.
With all due respect, ew. I’m sorry, but as soon as I heard that, I wanted to grab the nearest fly swatter (which is actually close by, as I’m on vacation in my family’s cottage and it’s lovely!). I believe that all the positives you pitched could come to light, from the extra time given to work on characters, new target tests, and new modes, but it’s hard for me to look on the bright side, especially this year.
Maybe it’s just because I’ve had bad luck with my game choices, but Overwatch 2 and MultiVersus have both left me with some rough burns. I’m not going to elaborate on the former, because it’s Overwatch, for crying out loud. I’m here to talk about platform fighters. I know MultiVersus is a worst-case scenario with how it handled its live-service system, but I still see the possibility of Nintendo falling into a similar pit. Mainly focusing on making the roster bigger and locking cosmetics behind Battle Passes or the like, thus lacking the balance to work on alternative modes.
Part 2: A Fresh Start
To me, starting from scratch is a different kind of bold and scary. It’s one that piques my interest and I like seeing it explored. Yes, I’m happy with the series’ current formula, but look at how far we’ve come! Combine that with Ultimate’s theme of, “Everyone is Here! (and more!)” and hitting reset makes a lot of sense! Dipping into some mechanics sounds, again, scary but cool!
I also liked your ideas of the base roster count matching Melee and proper custom moves for the entire roster. Smaller roster, more room for character refreshes and other new ideas! Heck, I just saw MockRock’s Link refresh video yesterday, and it blew my mind! One more thing, the idea of clone characters/echo fighters being part of the same character slot. This was a strange thing that Ultimate both DID and DIDN’T do, and your way seems more streamlined.
Part 3: Thoughts on your roster
It hurts to let go of the things you love, even in the world of fiction. But, I gotta say, I think your base character ideas were fairly healthy. I wanted to claim that there may have been bias with Dark Matter, buuuut I haven’t seen your concept video yet, and I’m a diehard fan for anything Kirby.
It’s a tough thing, deciding between “Am I adding this character for the sake of fresh gameplay, representation, fanservice, or multiple-choice?”. Credit where it’s due to the live-service idea, starting small and adding more down the line sounds like a fair balance. Er, emphasis on “sounds”.
Part 4: Personal Ambitions
I haven’t worked on a Smash moveset concept for a while, and I gave up on my first MultiVersus concept before I even started. Early on, you mentioned how you’d like to see new mechanics tossed in to spice things up, and I thought of an idea that I ought to write down. I find it inevitable for Disney to toss their magic hat into the platform fighters ring, and before they do, I’d like to take a crack at making a fun concept myself.
My core idea is to have players pick two characters to form a tag team. This takes inspiration from MvC 3, MultiVersus, and Smash’s Squad Strike. I’m wondering if this will be a healthier way to implement the support mechanics that MultiVersus tried. In my opinion, those can only work best when you have proper communication with your teammate, and solo play removes some of those perks entirely. Giving a single player full control over their team might lead to less frustration when coordinating team matchups.
Part 5: Conclusion
An astounding video overall. Yes, the live-service still makes me nauseous, but everything else was brilliant. I loved how you deployed the “less is more” mentality, as its something I think every future platform fighter should keep in mind. Heck, maybe something every game should keep mind. Looking at you, LEGO. You made a bold move, Duke. And I respect you for that.
They don't have to update everything for every game. A lot of things are reused from other games like returning stage designs prior to Ultimate, some item designs, and animations.
you know a way i would approach this by focusing on more obscure characters and forgotten all stars, i like the idea of Smash Bros existing as a memorial for nintendo history and showcasing to casual audiences characters that never got recognition and i feel like a crossover fighting game is the best way to do that as it helped effected various series franchises, not just in smash but in other fighting games as well (MvC for example is why Shuma-Gorath is still even remembered)
FINALLY! been waiting for this since the dark matter video and i am very pleased with it. I have been mulling around with a similar concept on how i would like to see a soft or full reboot to the franchise after ultimate and i think we arrived at some similar conclusions but i had a lot of thoughts!
- i usually hate the idea of live service models but i think my big issue with it comes from battle passes, time locked content, and other often associated practices that feel unfair to the player but i really enjoy most of your description for the idea.
- the custom moves is still a bit of a loss to me aside from the star fox thing where it can allow for a sort of echo system if i understand it right? think that would be great for some extra representation and some move flexibility.
- i for sure agree there needs to be some major engine or mechanic overhauls and for me i have so far thought about adding universal shield specials, unique shields and spot dodges, changing the way tether grabs work where weight will determine who gets pulled to who, dash attacks going off ledges or looping, etc. i am curious about the aerial dash though if you could elaborate some more?
- for notes on character selection i think you did great and my only notes would be wanting to include k rool but not knowing who to replace him with, maybe hoopa and lusamine w/ nihilego instead of team rocket and mewtwo for better generational representation. I don't know enough about fire emblem but two seems like a fair amount, but i do feel like i would maybe push tom nook off for a post launch spot to be honest and make room for someone like pit, little mac, etc.
anyways killer vid! now if we can just see a quicker turn around for moveset concepts than we saw with this one lmao
The idea behind the aerial dash is to include a universal chase option, an omnidirectional burst option that every character has. Think Street Fighter 6's drive rush, but in all directions. Lean more heavily into the "platforming" side by letting characters get around quicker, chase each other down or run away when needed. Probably would need something holding it back to prevent overuse, stale out like dodges or be on a short cooldown, but I think it'd be a neat way to shake things up while functionally being pretty simple.
Speaking K Rool
Please for the love of Grace bring K Rool (Plus Diddy) back in the next game
That plus please give me these DK characters in the next game
Dixie Kong (PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE HER PLAYABLE IN A SMASH GAME DAMN IT)
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong
The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Tiny, Chunky)
Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze
Stanley The Bugman
Ect............................................................
I don’t like how a roster of this size has 5 entire Mario characters. So many other franchises could be repped, but extra emphasis seems to have been placed on Mario in comparison to every other franchise here. Wario and Luigi are separated from Mario, despite them working perfectly with your costumization mechanics.
You also complain of Fire Emblem's characters twice, yet you still include them? If they're boring, why keep them?
You've sold me just with the addition of Diddy/Dixie, BotW Zelda & Team Rocket
(my silent weeping at the loss of Villager & ICs notwithstanding...).
I do hope that they shake things up next go-round, with 2 particular/personal things I've always wanted to see being what a 3D "open arena" mode would look like, as well as a comic/manga-inspired artstyle with cel-shading & MultiVersus-esque stylized character designs.
In the wise words of an eccentric man with a large dome, jolly good show!
>the loss of Captain Falcon
Nah, he's there. Bottom right corner, next to Fox and Inkling.
@@DyxoXinoro
Ah.
Well now I feel stupid...
Thanks for the heads-up.
Speaking of Diddy and Dixie
If they do add in Dixie in the game
Please make it to where Dixie is not a clone of Diddy
And has her own unique moveset
That plus please bring back King K Rool in the next Smash
Plus please give me these DK characters
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong
The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny)
Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze
Stanley The Bugman
Ect...................................................................
I love this reboot roster! I personally think that at first, the dlc would be free (only including a max of one or 2 newcomers) but later on the dlc includes more newcomers and starts being paid for. I also think they could have dlc costumes aswell.
Speaking of Costumes
Please someone for the life of me
Please make it to where we get some unlockable costumes as opposed to costumes being hidden behind a Paywall
That plus please make it to where characters that aren't the Mii fighters get alternate outfits
Give me Dr. Luigi for Luigi
Link having his Ocarina of Time clothes and Cap
Ganondorf having his Hyrule Warriors appearance
Ect..................................................
A character I think would work perfectly as DLC would be eevee as I imagine you'd be able to choose only 3 or 4 of the eeveelutions at a time to turn into during a match.
I think it's a pretty good roster, and with the guarantee of the veterans coming back eventually, i think it's fine that a bunch of them miss the base spot. but idk how i feel about the exclusion of the miis, with custom moveset brought back, and the idea of having multiple different styles for a single character and with how much potential the miis have throughout their games and how much new stuff can be created for them, seens like a weird choice not to have them. + mii costumes can help represent more franchises, and they could easily be exploited with the life service system, they just seen like a perfect fit.
...ya know what, I'm just gonna outright admit it, I forgot the Miis existed, their appearance in Smash has left so little impact on my mind. But you are right, they are a no-brainer inclusion that would help the live service system function tremendously.
Probably would scrap Mewtwo for them, I was iffy on bringing him in anyway.
@@TheDukeofDorks I guess you can add the miis and some other character to complete the square. my pick would be either Pit or Little Mac, they're small but nintendo give them a lot of attention, like being easter eggs in the mario movie, and pit being a big deal in smash 4 and subspace emissary. between the two, i guess Pit is the best option for base, he has more options to make a customizable moveset, he has some cool stuff in urprising that could make a fun moveset. meanwhile Little Mac don't have much, and he would need far more work to properly function in this hypothetical smash.
@@banjo9158 Speaking of Pit
Please just scrap Dark Pit (No one asked for him)
Plus Please someone give me some new Kid Icarus Characters that are not just more Pit clones
Give me Hades
Medusa
Magnus
Viridi
Phosphora
The Eggplant Wizard
Ect...............................
Your idea for a reboot is the best I’ve seen on CZcams.
I really like this! The one thing I’d argue is that Olimar is more important to have on the base roster than Shulk. He is Mitamoto’s passion project, the center of Pikmin 4 marketing, and would bring potentially the best projectile based move set with a variety of captains, Pikmin, and enemies to be used in his movesets(just imagine a side b where a water wraith rolls across the stage while olimar dashes away from it!)
I agree, not to mention that Miamoto literally wanted the Pikmin franchise to become as popular as Mario!
Mitamoto don't make smash bros games so who cares what he thinks. Xenoblade more popular anyway.
100% agreed, he's just the easier character to cut. I think Pikmin as a brand is more beloved (Xenoblade is too decentralized due to varying casts), but Pikmin in Smash Brothers has been significantly less well received. It's safer for a reboot roster to cut characters that people weren't as fond of in the last installment, and traditional Smash Olimar is one of the safest characters do that lol.
Definitely would come back reworked ASAP though.
Finally a Team Rocket suggestion. Play as Meowth buffed up with TMs stolen from the Game Corner. Final Smash is the baloon, which malfunctions and explodes. It’s too good
Here's a suggestions
Please only have Team Rocket and Pikachu be the only Playable Pokemon characters in the next Smash game
WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE WORTHLESS BORING AS KITTEN FECES POKEMON CHARACTERS IN SMASH
ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE WORTHLESS CLONES OF LINK OR ZELDA OR CAPTAIN FALCON
AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
very much appreciate you showing Kefka as a great villain candidate (just imagine the commentary between him and Palutena in that one Smash mode that I forgot the name of).
More varied custom moves are a great idea and I think consistent/steady dlc is feasible considering it would sell like crazy (Nintendo has to know this…please tell me they know this!).
Speaking of Palutena
Please someone give me some new Kid Icarus Characters that are not just more Pit clones
Give me Hades
Medusa
Magnus
Viridi
Phosphora
The Eggplant Wizard
Ect...............................
Including Phosphora and the Eggplant Wizard? A man of culture I see.
My top pick is Viridi, then Medusa, then Hades, then Eggplant Wizard, then Phosphora, and then Magnus.
Also while I agree for a reboot I think 45 characters is more ideal just because while I think a reboot is the next step I think they won’t want to lose their heavy hitters like Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic etc.
I think a reboot without 3rd party characters for the starting roster makes alot more sense.
Speaking of Cloud
Please someone give Cloud his Motorcycle in the next game
Plus give Cloud some magic attacks
Plus please add in some more Final Fantasy Music (Give me Dancing Mad and The Seymour Battle Theme From FFx)
Plus bring back Snake and Kazuya
Plus please Add in these Guys
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro The Dragon
Rayman
Klonoa
Gex The Gecko
Abe From Oddworld
Lara Croft From tomb Raider
Jill Or Leon From Resident Evil
The Pyramid Head From Resident Evil
To where we can finally have a proper version of PlayStation All Stars
I'm maining Tom Nook in this hypothetical Smash Bros. reboot for his concept alone
OOOOH! PLEASE MAKE A VIDEO ON WHO YOU WOULD ADD AS FOR THE LIVE SERVICE! (I think that personally, it should be 3 returns and 2 newcomers, and I really hope that new genres, such as Horror or Run & Gun also get repped)
Where is that Anna moveset you briefly showed? I want to see it myself.
Oh shoot I forgot to put those in the description! Thank you for the reminder, here's a copy of the links:
docs.google.com/document/d/1dQ2j1xPmDIbUjEgyg9ELp_qapdDi0ROISSVE2NAULNY/edit?usp=sharing
docs.google.com/document/d/137miSTF_6HpJwgVoHihCoqIWBlmWEXWhQ34TxjMaar4/edit
YEAH NEW DUKE VIDEO LETS GO
I personally wouldnt think they'd add Jesse, James and Meowth because they're anime characters originally, and that kinda opens the door to Goku. They wouldn't really take the risk.
Dracula is already in Smash Bros. I can't believe we have to worry about Mavis from Hotel Transylvania getting into Smash, we're in a horrible timeline.
@@pyrrhickong Dracula from Castlevania
@@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17 Dracula from Castlevania has lore that makes him directly intersect with the characters from the original novel.
Like. What is the risk? "We have a character who debuted in an anime but is known for being from Pokemon, now suddenly we HAVE to allow Goku in?" Who is forcing you to put Goku in the game? The anime God? Mavis from Hotel Transylvania, who is presently more connected to Smash than Goku?
@@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17 Team Rocket from the games. Like... they're literally *in* Yellow and Let's Go. I'd get the worry if they were purely from the anime but... they're not
@@sirdrake1857That is kinda like saying I want Mickey Mouse from Epic Mickey
You had me until custom moves. Regardless of its party influence, Smash is still a fighting game at its core, and adding in custom moves would make for an extremely unbalanced game. There's a reason virtually no serious fighting games feature move customization.
That banner commission is a great idea. Ill try to pitch in if I can
I think instead of custom moves, we could have some sort of variations system. We could have something like a mario that uses specifically powerups or an inkling that uses different classes of weapons. We could also fit toon link and young link in there too, and this could be a fun way to make different interpretations of the roster.
Speaking Of Young/Toon Link
Just please scrap those two guys completely (Unless Sakurai gives Young Link his Transformation Mask from Majora's Mask)
That plus please add in some New Zelda characters that aren't Link, Captain Falcon, Zelda clones
Give me Skull Kid From Majora's Mask
Ghirahim From Skyward Sword
Vaati
Midna And Wolf Link From Twilight Princess
Zant
Impa From Hyrule Warriors
Tetra From Wind Waker (With her not being a clone at all)
Ravio From A Link Between Worlds
Yuga
The Champions From Breath of The Wild (Revali, Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa)
That plus please make it to where Zelda and Shiek are switchable characters as opposed to being two separate characters
That plus please scrap Ganondorf's moveset and give him some Magic attacks like Dead Man's Volley (Plus just have him use his sword mainly)
This is a very different direction to push the series in, which I would be kinda scared to embrace, ngl. But also that's kinda the point of it NOT being just ultimate + 5 more characters
pretty novel concept, definitely could work if Nintendo isn't the one making the live service aspects and is only calling the shots like in 4 and Ultimate. I agree that Team Rocket should be in the game!!!! And while I don't entirely agree on the custom moves having that much relevancy as a big selling point would be best, I see your point. I just think that games should just give you all the options by picking the character (shoutout to MK11's special moves slots fiasco that lasted the whole lifespan of it). Overall I'd be cautiously optimistic if this was the direction taken!
It is amusing that the most impossible thing about this concept is not the custom moves, not the risk of cutting all these characters, but the simple fact that there is no way in hell that Nintendo is competent enough with online games to run a live service idea like this.
Here is my personal take on this roster (Now extended to thirty characters)
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong
-Wario
-Link
-Zelda
-Ganondorf
-Ness
-Pikachu
-Team Rocket (NEW)
-Mii Fighter
-Shulk
-Marth
-Anna (NEW)
-R.O.B.
-Isabelle
-Kirby
-King Dedede
-Dark Matter (NEW)
-Inkling
-Samus
-Ridley
-Captain Falcon
-Pit
-Rhythm Monkey (NEW)
-Ray (NEW)
Also, what if instead of five characters every year, it was three characters every half a year?
I think this would be better (if it's manageable) as not only would we be receiving new content at a faster rate, but it would be a virtual six characters per year, making that more characters in the span of one year
Let me know what you think of these concepts
EDIT: Replaced Villager with R.O.B.
Speaking of Donkey and Diddy Kong
In addition to them
Please bring back King K Rool
That plus please add in these DK Characters
Dixie Kong (Someone make her playable damn it)
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong
The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny)
Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze
Stanley The Bugman
Ect...................................................................
That description for a Team Rocket gimmick isn’t really “reversing” Hero’s crit gimmick. It’s more like cranking both sides of the coin to an extreme: Where the attacks seem to be almost useless most of the time, but when they DO work, you’ve essentially won already.
Speaking of Team Rocket
Please just make it to where only them and Pikachu are playable
We do not need anymore worthless Pokemon characters in Smash Bros
Add in More Kirby Characters
Add in More Donkey Kong characters
Add in More Zelda characters that aren't more Link. Captain Falcon, Or Zelda clones
And come back next year
Video is good and cozy.
I would make different choices (I feel like Game & Watch or ROB should be there as a nod to Nintendo's earlier legacy as they just aren't really DLC material in the same way, but "what if you bought ROB the Power Glove" is, Joy Mech Fight is actually perfect for your proposed system changes IT HAS 11 MORE PLAYABLE CHARACTERS THAN THIS ROSTER), but ultimately I do think that a reduction and rebalancing would be healthy for Smash. Even if it's just a matter of fighting game 'seasons', we've already seen that a healthy roster of 20 or so, if proper depth is given to each character, will absolutely keep people around for years. So adding five more is like, oh neat, that's more food than I was expecting!
Admittedly, I am wary of multiple movesets in general as Netherrealm fighters have soured me hard on the concept, but I think it makes a lot of sense given that moveset complexity via button and motion combinations isn't really something that Smash can do! And having the flexibility for it... please imagine Street Fighter 6's World Tour mode. But you're a Mii and you just combo'd Pidgeot giving you a lift into Falcon Punch. This is the ideal future.
This is a really good roster for a smash bros reboot. I love to see shulk again.
This has to be my favorite showing of a smash “reboot” I do think you could’ve cut Ness in place of Pit though, a retro character with a more recent presence/game and is made by Sakurai himself.
I mean, the Smash iteration of Pit (and by extension Uprising) is definitely Sakurai's invention, but if memory serves me right Kid Icarus was created by someone else.
Speaking Of Ness
Please someone give me some new Earthbound/Mother characters in the next Smash game
Give me Porky Minch
Jeff Andonuts
Poo
Paula
Kumatora (Assuming they bring back Lucas)
The Masked Man/Claus
Giegue (Giygas) From Mother 1 (Earthbound Beginings)
Ect...............................................
See I loved this idea then I started to think... what would this do to the comp scene, if custom movesets are locked behind a pay wall I can't imagine the idea would take off sadly
I really should stop forgetting this channel exists.
But how exactly Dark Mattter and Team Rocket's moveset in general?
I really like the idea of custom movsets for each character with echo fighters being alts with potentially new movesets instead of taking extra space on the character select screen. We could have all the different incarnations of Link; Pichu, Raichu and Alolan Raichu could be alts for Pikachu and all the current Fire Emblem lords as alts for Marth. Once King Dedede and Meta Knight get in via DLC they could have Shadow Dedede, King D Mind, Dark Meta Knight, Mecha Knight and Galacta Knight as alts.
Speaking of DeDeDe and Meta-Knight
Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters-
Magolor
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn
DaRoach
Knuckle Joe
Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64
Gooey
Marx
Ect......................................................
I can't believe this is it, honestly. I thought you'd make more character concepts and ideas for this game and whatnot
Oh... shit, that totally sounds like I'm saying I'm done making character concepts, doesn't it?
Not the case, in fact I talk about potentially doing Team Rocket later in the video. I'm just done playing the game, don't have much desire to play another that plays the same way, that's an important distinction I DEFINITELY should have made lol
@The Duke of Dorks ok, that's good. Sad to hear you fell out of love with the game. I guess it got boring?
Yeah, just tired of the formula. Talking about it is more fun than playing it at this point for me.
My Ideal Capcom themed update for your roster
Megaman, Ryu, Leon S Kennedy, Dante and Morrigan Aensland?
Plus these guys
Viewtiful Joe
Amaterasu From Okami
Captain Commando
Arthur From Ghost And Goblins
Frank West From Dead Rising
Plus More Mega Man Characters (Proto Man, Dr. Wiley, Bass, Sigma, Zero, Vile, Ect.................)
Plus Jill Valentine and Chris Redfield being playable
Plus More Street Fighter Characters (Chun Li, Guile, M. Bison, Zangief, Blanka, Cammy, Balrog, Vega, Sagat, E. Honda, Dhalsim, ect.................)
Ect......................................................
Do you think Bowser Jr. and maybe some other minions would be able to assist Bowser here?
Sure! That's the beauty of making custom moves, taking a character and going "Ok but what if they started skewing towards a completely different playstyle" is totally justified cause the original moveset is still fully intact.
Wouldn't even prevent Jr. from appearing later down the line, plus it could allow for some fantastic interactions between Bowser and his son that ya just wouldn't be able to get from how the roster currently works.
@The Duke of Dorks Niiiice.
Do like the idea of Bowser being both a big brute and also like a big man in charge of a huge army or something.
And, yeah moments between the two would be appreciated
As someone who’s pretty much sold his soul to the Splatoon series at this point, the idea of a fully customizable Inkling makes my brain go into overdrive.
Like you could just take the Ultimate moveset and allowed players to swap out weapons for similar ones and that’d open up so many possibilities.
For example, being able to change the Neutral B from Splattershot to a shooter with similar range like the Splattershot Pro, Splattershot Jr, N-ZAP, maybe even the Splat Dualies, or heck you could give them almost every Shooter and Dualie as an option as they all function the same aside from the handful of Semi Autos (L-3 and H-3 Nozzlenoses and Squeezer), which would still grant access to 16 different weapons to choose from.
There’s also the idea of customization allowing for self expression, something that Splatoon does wonderfully as well, even if that series mainly does it through clothes rather than weapon choice. But Inkling could still carry that essence by letting the player choose from the wide selection of weaponry from Splatoon. Want a quick option to dodge in and out of your opponent’s range? Maybe swap the Splat Roller out for a Carbon. Or do you want an option that might be easier to dodge but will make the opponent feel REALLY stupid for getting caught? The Dynamo could really make someone upset at themselves. The Splattershot’s range not doing much for you? Then swap it out for the Jet Squelcher or maybe even a weapon from one of the long range Classes like the Splat Charger or Heavy Splattling. Wish that Inkbrush had more of an oomph? Maybe give the Octobrush a try.
And it’s not like this customization could be limited to Main weapons either. Let the player swap out their Splat Bomb for a Suction Bomb for even greater pressure with its longer explosion time and larger blast radius. Or a Burst Bomb for quick damage as it explodes on impact. Or maybe a utility sub like a Squid Beakon help out recovering or a Splash Wall to keep opponents at bay if you’re running slower and longer ranged main weapons.
And we can take it even further with customizable Special Weapons too. Even if Final Smashes don’t return and there’s no real equivalent, giving Inkling one of 5 or so options of a Special Weapon they can gain by filling a meter could be so fun. Using Tacticooler to increase their already insane Mobility, Ink Armor to give them incredibly strong damage based Armor, a Bomb Rush or Launcher to let them barrage enemies with a specific Bomb type for a few seconds, etc.
And all this doesn’t even mention how the Live Service could benefit this idea too. Adding more Mains, Subs, and Specials as the game gets updated. More clothing sets. Maybe even new hairstyles. Heck if this Smash reboot is released during the current Splatoon game’s life cycle, maybe they could add a Main Weapon or Clothing item that was recently added to that Splatoon game.
All that to say that yeah, the idea of Inkling in a new Smash game excites me to no end and giving them full customization would allow for so much love and self expression that Splatoon nails so perfectly.
I think the idea you had for fox is brilliant, and it can be pushed even further with other characters. One that i would love to see is with ness, where you can switch between also using paula, poo, and jeff. They could have differences that reflect their roles and abilities in game, but can all share plenty of animations due to them all being the same size. This would be a fantastic representation of earthbound, as we no longer need to worry about ness using moves that he cant, because they are now being used by paula and poo. Jeff would have weaker, non-psychic standard attacks but more gadgets, and ness can now use abilities he actually can use in order to differentiate him from the others.
Speaking of Ness, Paula, Poo, and Jeff
Please also give me some more new Earthbound/Mother characters
Give me Porky Minch
The Masked Man/Claus
Kumatora (Assuming Lucas comes back)
Giegue/Giygas From Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings
Ect.......................................................
Yoshi, Diddy/Dixie Kong , second fire emblem character, Zelda and frickin’ Tom Nook but not Princess Peach? She’s much more important than all of them combined
Speaking of Diddy and Dixie Kong
If they do add Dixie to Smash
Please don't make her a clone of a clone of Diddy
And please give her a unique moveset
Plus bring back King K Rool as a playable fighter
That plus Plus please give me these DK characters
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong
The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny)
Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze
Stanley The Bugman
Ect...................................................................
Think this is a great idea for a live service smash bros! Although I have a few... Personal issues...
• I've... Never liked the idea of Red/Pokemon Trainer getting in on the action! I think pokemon trainer is perfect the way he is now as is Pikachu, more or less.
• I fundimentally don't agree with picking Isabelle over Villager! With the amount of customization you're pitching for this Villager is up there with Inkling as a perfect choice for this roster! While you lambasted Axe Kill-ager there are a good subset of Animal Crossing players who run around and swing axes at their least favourite villagers, the Kill-ager is valid and by your own made up mechanics this theoretical game would let players choose if that was how they wanted to play Villager or not, their default moveset could have no axe at all! Only for them to get axe-based moves in a halloween update along side Mario and Wario getting Zombie skins, it'd be great!
• On that same note if this game's purposes is to sell DLC post launch infinitely who do you think will sell more? One of the most influential and popular modern nintendo characters of all time, or literally blank canvas boy-girl?
All that said those are just my opinions, this video and this concept are still great despite my own... Semi-distate? For a huge legacy series like Smash going live-service...
Gonna have to say I disagree on the live service model. It’s not a magic solution that lets you add everything in perpetuity. For one I don’t think Namco is going to devote a portion of their team to work on it forever. But also a successful LS model needs micro-transactions and constant content updates. At it’s best, Ultimate releasing 1 character every 2 months is not fast enough to go long-term. And it needs MTX for consistent revenue to work on said content, not just when a new character drops. And there’s not much else they can offer. No one cares about Mii hats and while I’d like to have costume for other fighters, there might be other reasons they aren’t doing that already (outside 3rd party characters). Stages likely take too much time to work on them outside a new fighter too.
But more importantly, even with the Season Pass model, a new game offers more than drip-feed content can. For one, everything gets overhauled, and certain features like new modes, items, stickers/trophies/mini-games and so on typically are low priority during the drip-feed/LS phase, but is justified when you have a budget for a whole game. And also, the stages for the DLC fighters sucked. They were effectively just Battlefield with slight tweaks or interchanging backgrounds. That’s so lame. We may not have gotten many new stages with Ultimate in particular, but a new game budget allows them to make unique stages. When you’re focused on cranking out content as quickly as possible because every second your player base could be dwindling, you’re going to cut corners. That’s exactly what happened with Ultimate’s DLC, and would happen with this, but with more stages and over a longer period where we could’ve gotten a completely new game. It’s fine to do stages like that when it’s a fighting game like Mortal Kombat where every stage is the same (except maybe interact-able objects) because that’s how that fighting system works, but Smash is a _platform fighter_ and stage designs are just as important as moveset designs.
Nintendo is simply not interested in, or committed to a game to make the live service model work for something like Smash. The closest is Splatoon, which is easier to do, and even with their own internal team (no issues with a 3rd party wanting to work on something else) they only support it with content updates for 2 years. Sure, it doesn’t have any MTX/purchases to make money outside the initial game, but that tracks across tons of their games. Likely because after that point a lot of people have jumped off and there isn’t enough money to justify it. VERY few live-service games last longer than that, or even a year. Smash is popular sure, but even fans were losing interest by the end. It gets a spike, and then people stop talking until the next character drop. Nintendo doesn’t know, and likely isn’t interested in doing that model.
I'm rather confused where multiple points of this are coming from. For one, writing off costumes with a limp "there might be other reasons they aren't doing that", strikes me as a bit baffling. "This is the thing that would let this happen, but it doesn't count because reasons!", is not the best way to attempt to make a point, no?
But broadening the scope a bit, I get the sense reading this that a bit of tunnel vision is going on as to finding ways for how this wouldn't work, which is causing leaping assumptions to ensure that logic follows through. Assuming Namco must be involved when they don't need to be, assuming Ultimate releasing a character every 2 months is not fast enough when that speed actively kept in gaming news for its entire running (Outright breaking news outlets on several occasions), and using new modes/items/trophies/etc. as a defense for why brand new games are better despite all those aspects clearly suffering due to the serialized format. Trophies were cut. Most mini-games were cut. And the only new mode we got is a glorified set of event matches masquerading as an adventure mode. Smash Wii U was a downgrade from Brawl, Brawl sacrificed half of Melee's options to focus on Subspace, even Melee couldn't bring back Board the Platforms. Because it is not feasible to do so, so if you're saying side modes get shunted to the side and wouldn't be added upon, that's fine by me, I'll take the future where Smash Run starts in the game and stays that way.
A serialized format with this series is incapable of keeping up with its scope without sacrificing side content between games. That's not an opinion, that's a fact, Smash could reboot in a serialized format and the same problem would arise as it received new instalments. It's fine to prefer that, but I can't respect the logic of trying to use that as a point against live service when the reverse of what you are saying is true.
Also, a lot of what you're saying about Live Service games just... isn't true? For one Nintendo ABSOLUTELY has several. Pokemon Unite flies in the face of everything you're claiming there, and their various mobile game endeavors have made them an absurd amount of money, and have lasted for multiple years and are still going strong. Nintendo isn't averse to live service, they're just slow to follow trends, like they have been for every other online development for decades. I don't know if it will be Smash, but I would bet money on them dipping their toes into taking that format into their console games within the next 5 years, they've already shown they know how to make it work.
Even if they didn't, is a character every 2 months too slow? I'd argue no, that's faster than most Mobas, which are the defacto live service success stories. Hell it could be even slower and it would still dominate the news cycle every time a character was revealed. Good or bad, Steve or Byleth, the headlines are ALWAYS everywhere, because that's the effect Smash has. That kind of news dominance is all something needs to be profitable.
And that's just if they follow a traditional live service format! My preference would be a live serivce esque model for cosmetic stuff and custom moves, but to have yearly/biyearly expansion pack of major content (Characters/stages/etc, think Mortal Kombat Aftermath). Best of both worlds there, keeps a flow of revenue running while allowing larger updates to be properly developed, delayed if need be to ensure quality and ambition is kept. Which obviously requires a massive development team, but a single wave of Fire Emblem swimwear would easily finance that for 3 waves of content all on its own (Which, again, is why its insane to write costumes off so frivolously!)
I apologize if this comes across as talking down, but it's hard not to on an argument that hinges on things that just aren't true. I think there's plenty of roadblocks that would keep something like this from happening, but I don't think any of the reasons you've listed are among them.
Couldn't fit this anywhere else so I'll just awkwardly throw it here, it's a bit odd to discredit Ultimate's stages. Most of the DLC stages were indeed mediocre (Though I'll fight for Mementos and KoF Stadium, they're better than 90% of what's in the base game), but when your platform fighter already has over a HUNDRED stages of variously unique degrees, there's no real pressure from a design perspective to make anything more than a new locale to fit the theming of the newest fighter and bring in new music. Not to say that means they absolutely could have made unique stages in that time period, I have no idea, but it's not really a sign of them being incapable of doing better either. There simply wasn't reason to
@@TheDukeofDorks @TheDukeofDorks My argument against costumes isn't that it wouldn't be a good way to monetize (although if it would be enough to uphold a free-to-play model, who knows). It's that, they've had plenty of chances to, and still haven't. So I'm skeptical that they would in this hypothetical when they aren't bothering now.
"Assuming Namco must be involved when they don't need to be"
Whose going to make it then? Nintendo doesn't have an internal team that's capable, and they're likely not going to build one (again) just for Smash. That's a huge undertaking compared to outsourcing to a prestigious fighting game studio with all the resources already. It would cost less to outsource too. I mean, it's the whole reason they got Namco involved in the first place. Because they tried setting up a random one-off studio with Brawl, and Sakurai said it was terrible. How do you get around that? They make tons from outsourcing, a paid copy, and paid DLC. It's going to be a hard sell to say "take on the cost of making a completely new studio, for something that requires expertise for a finely tuned game like a fighting game, and offer some or most of it fore free... but maybe paid costumes will recoup that huge loss and make a benefit more than before". It's not as easy of a sell as you think it is. It may not be Destiny (which still has paid expansions), but it ain't some 2D mobile game with easy-to-make alt colours or static character art to overcharge for either. You also need some type of in-game currency to milk people's money that's used on things that are randomized or disposable. Because costumes are finite. So what would that be in a fighting game? Maybe there are answers, but you haven't provided them. Costumes help, but they only go so far. FTP has some type of recurring/gambling aspect that keeps people involved.
Twitter isn't real life. New characters may generate buzz initially, but look a few days or a week afterwards. Most people move on quickly. It only trends for a day or so. And for a free-to-play, you need more new content to engage with more frequently. Most other games have weekly events/challenges, or are team-based games (Smash's online infrastructure isn't good enough for that). Smash sort of had events, but "fight, but only using these characters" isn't a big draw. It also isn't progress towards a greater goal (although it didn't need to in its current form, I guess if it was FTP it would be progress on a battle pass to unlock a character or other things).
"using new modes/items/trophies/etc. as a defense for why brand new games are better despite all those aspects clearly suffering due to the serialized format"
Now you're doing what you're claiming of me. It's not because the serialized format is inherently worse, it's that Smash got too big for its britches. Of course something has to give when you're balancing 70+ characters and remodelling/retexturing 100+ stages. They had a unique opportunity to say "everyone is here" and took it.
But eventually the series will reboot, and content creep won't be an issue (for a few games). The difference with rebooting as a complete game (with DLC) versus a free-to-play game is the budget. I mean, just look at Multiversus. I don't recall, but I'm sure even you would complain that a character once in a while isn't enough to sustain interest. Smash has notable characters but average people move on quicker. You're looking at it from within the bubble of the fanbase.
Fornite is really the only example that's been a AAA free-to-play success (I guess Genshin Impact, but idk enough about how it works or monetizes), and likely stuck with it (until it got popular) because they really had no other games to make money off of after selling Gears of War (obviously they make money from Unreal Engine, but I'm talking about as a game studio). Nintendo makes tons of multi-million seller hits. Smash Ultimate sold 30 million+ copies at full price. Why would they gamble on trying free-to-play? And I don't see them trying the "paid, but DLC is free" model like some other games, especially with 3rd party licenses. They can demand, and will get money upfront. Any "free" aspect is a potential loss of money. Splatoon probably does it because that's the trend with shooters, there's few stages to start and online MP is a bigger selling feature for that game. You can't even play local 2P with bots. Smash's 1v1 online has problems, nevermind items or 8P. For a company that's adamant about local MP, Splatoon doesn't have it where Smash does. They'll obviously still promote Smash as a game with online, but it's not as important to them as it is with Splatoon. Smash didn't even list specific patch notes until Splatoon already started doing it.
Not to mention, those niche or retro (G&W type, not Simon Belmont) characters people so desperately want (take your pic) are only "possible" through a complete game. Because a new game has plenty to sell it on that you can have a few weird choices and it won't be a big deal. They aren't gonna do that with DLC (and haven't) because each one has to make it's money back individually. In the case with a hidden season pass, they have a little more leeway, but if it was purely singular, it's a bigger issue. And you can still buy Ultimate DLC as singular so it's still partially a concern too.
There’s a huge difference between a mobile game being a live-service, and a AAA game. That should be obvious. It takes much less time, money, and resources to develop. Even Pokemon Unite is a mobile game. Also, who wants MORE greedy monetization schemes? (of which PU is one, so not an appealing example to follow) That’s how the few FTP games that are successful, are able to be. I’d much rather pay once and get everything than being nickel-and-dimed or told to play 300 matches just to unlock a single fighter because that’s the only way for them to justify giving something out for free.
As for stages… there’s more variety in design in the few new Ultimate (base game) stages than across the DLC. That’s why I say that. Also, the idea they can phone it in with a reskin because it “has over a HUNDRED stages” is weak. People are paying for this content (money or in FTP case time). They can do more than the bare minimum, and it’s not like there’s good ideas. To be fair, I will say it’s a little more complicated because you’re working with a 3rd party, but I doubt all of them are sticklers.
@@TheDukeofDorks Also, what is the fundamental difference between doing a free-to-play model as opposed to what they're doing now (complete game with season passes)?
You can say "FTP will go on longer" but they could do that under the current model too. There's nothing preventing them. Just do character costumes instead of Miis. And despite that, they stopped anyway. I'm sure some of it is Sakurai/Namco wanting to move on, but their own retail AAA games don't get support/new content past 2 years. (I know Smash was technically 3, but pass 2 was pass 1's content stretched over twice the length) Likely because there's a drop-off at that point where it starts making less money to be worth it. And if it's an internal team (like Splatoon), it's likely more valuable to have the rest of the team help develop a new game, rather than support an existing one until it completely dies off.
Speaking of Namco
Please make it to where Klonoa is playable
Plus please give me Dig-Dug as a playable fighter in the next Smash game
Loved the vid! If possible I think it would be cool if you updated the roster every month or two
Maybe make some shorts out of them?
Ya know what, with how surprisingly well the video is performing, I might make a Part 2. No promises, but I'd be down to give a rudimentary overview of "Ok, this is what DLC priority would look like" down the line.
I agree that if the veteran are redesigned, the roster need be reduced to 30. Most of the videos want the roster to be 50 or more, which is unrealistic.
This is a good basic roster, although I don't agree with adding characters originated from animation, because this will cause trouble in subsequent DLC character selections.
Not sure if I agree with every choice here but this is solid
I like this idea
Idea for a character slot using your concept: Gallade/Gardevoir. Customizing with both movesets, the Pokemon that actually fights is the one which aligns with more of the moves you chose. Easter egg where if you choose equal moves from both Pokemon, you fight as Iron Valiant.
Here's another idea
NO MORE POKEMON CHARACTES IN SMASH PLEASE (Adding in more Pokemon characters is not going to make me go and buy 10 trillion things of Pokemon merchandise)
Throw in More Kirby Characters
Throw in More Donkey Kong Characters
Throw in more Zelda characters that aren't just more Link, Zelda, or Captain Falcon clones
And come back next year
ngl a hunter from monster hunter could work alot , the customisation with the weapon classes , and maybe monsters trying to attack you but being attacks , like the raths coming down slamming into the hunter but being very strong slam attacks
While I personally wouldn't like to see this in favour of a more traditional sequel, I think the idea of custom moves and live service could work phenomenaly with a skill tree that would let people pick and chose new moves to unlock and work as sort of the mini goals of unlocking new characters in previous titles.
Say unlocking specific 'character coins' for either just playing the character or getting kills with specific moves alongside the gold as a universal currency which could be used to pay for the new unique moves or even costumes for each character.
I think this roster is solid for the most part, though I have an issue with the way the Pokémon series is represented. All of the Roster picks you selected for the franchise are from Gen 1, which for a series with 9 generations feels a bit wrong. Personally I’d prefer to have each Pokemon rep to be from a different generation, as it can represent more of the franchise. Though I like the idea of using the trainers alongside the Pokemon
Assigning all 3 reps under the Gen 1 banner is a bit of an oversimplification, no? All 3 of them are so much bigger than the individual games they appeared in. It's a big reason why I'd want a ton of custom options for Pokemon for Red and Team Rocket (Let Jessie and James customize between all the Pokemon they've gathered over the years), it would make it it much easier to have a wide breadth of generations show up while keeping the obvious characters in the spotlight.
I get that for Team Rocket as they’ve used a wide variety of Pokemon over the years, and Meowth has regional forms that can represent other regions, but it doesn’t work as well for Red and Mewtwo. Red is very associated with the Indigo Plateau, and his ingame team reflects the Pokemon that are obtainable in the original RBY games, the most you would probably get for a Pokemon outside of Gen 1 is Espeon. Meanwhile Mewtwo is obviously going to be a solo Pokemon and the best you could do for repping other regions is its Mega. Pokemon is a large and expansive franchise with over a thousand characters and Pokémon and to relegate most of it to a single generation that a lot of the fanbase agrees has unfairly been overpushed by GameFreak itself, does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Though to be fair these definitely aren’t the worst options for representing Pokemon and the concepts at least look interesting
@@jimmynason6833 That's only if ya religiously stick to Red only having his Indigo team, which I wouldn't, that's a creative liberty I would take in a heartbeat. Dudes one of the best Pokemon trainers in existence, not to mention a repeated player avatar, no way does he just have his Indigo team.
this seems like an absolute nightmare. firstly, a live service would never work for an exclusively console game. it would be great on pc but we all know nintendo is never going to put their games on pc. how would that even work? what happens when the console its on becomes obsolete? nintendo consoles are notoriously hard to work with, and keeping a game optimized for the next console would be extremely difficult. and 25 characters is way too little to start with after nearly 90 characters in ultimate. way too many people would be upset that their mains got cut. especially since those 25 aren't just veterans but also newcomers. i don't think that the majority of people would be okay with such a small roster at launch. and having such an abundance of custom moves would be cool for players that already know what they're doing, it would be extremely overwhelming for new/casual players. not to mention balancing all those moves and how they interact with every character and all their moves would be an impossible task. the fusion of red and pikachu with other pokemon helping out in other moves is too much. way too overdesigned for a single character. a lot of the older characters do need updated movesets, but these weird gimmicks and a shit ton of custom moves is not the way to do it. the game would also get super stale and boring with only 25 characters for a whole year. and nobody really cares about target practice or any of those other one off modes. you play them a couple times and then never touch them again. as a kid sure it was fun to play them over and over again but once you're older its extremely boring and i think everyone that wants it back is just completely nostalgia pilled. overall, i think this is the least thought out smash reboot video i've ever seen, completely unrealistic and nonsensical.
Dark Matter would single-handedly get me back into Smash.
Speaking of Dark Matter
Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters-
Magolor
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn
DaRoach
Knuckle Joe
Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64
Gooey
Marx
Ect......................................................
Special moves should definitely be more heavily used in the next Smash game, I think it would work best if characters that are similar or from the same franchise just be a “class.” Like having Mario, Dr Mario and Luigi (and maybe Wario too) share a class, the Animal Crossing characters share a class, every Fire Emblem character share a class, characters that get new movesets can still use their old ones (like Link), etc. Characters that share a class would also be able to use each other’s moves, like having Luigi use F.L.U.D.D, or having Villager use Isabelle’s fishing rod for example. The character select screen would probably have a way to customize it so you can remove certain characters or add custom ones, it would probably be useful for tournaments if one character is too OP. They could even use the class system to make cosmetics, like adding Waluigi into the class with other Mario characters: no new moves would be added (they could, be they don’t need to go nuts with it, maybe just some new special moves) but it would still be exiting for this to be added.
Speaking of F.E
Please do not give me more Fire Emblem (Anime Waifu Dating Simulator Emblem) characters
Add in more Donkey Kong characters
Add in more Kirby characters
Add in more Zelda characters that aren't more Link, Zelda, Or Captain Falcon Clones
And come back next year
I don’t like the custom move idea, because I never enjoy those in fighting games tbh, but the roster’s pretty good overall
I really like this idea for a remake qlthough id personally make a few changes too the starting roster.
First off i feel like one of pokemons problems is over repping gen 1 and i rather fix that in a reboot rather than dedicating the first 3 spots to just that.
For team rocket i think saying theyre heavily tied to the game brand is an overstament. They are side characters in remakes that most of the fanbase seems to not even want too consider mainline. Not that i would argue theyre agsinst the rules or whatever but they do look out of place compared to the rest of the roster imo. Id say for a villain team rep the obvious choice would be N. Hes tends to be one of the most like actual characters in the franchise let alone out of the evil teams. Lusamine or guzma would be my runner up if you wanted someone more evil though.
As for mewtwo nothings really wrong with him hes a good pick for dlc i just have other priorities on the base roster. Id replace him with cynthia personally. Another fan favorite character and i think she can give off a similar vibe too what you wanted from mewtwo. More importantly though alongside the other 2 they can cover pokemon from at least half if not more of the gens which i think sets good baseline for how the series is repped to work off of.
As for the rest of roster id probally also hold off on zelda and tom nook. Like mewtwo i think these are both good characters id put in the dlc i just have other priorities for the base roster as these are both unplayable side characters outside of spinoff titles
1 of those spots i would give to peach (daisy and maybe the other princesses too as alts.) Although instead of her standard smash moveset id have this be focused on refferencing kart/sports titles. These sub franchises of mario are gigantic bigger than a lot of full franchises from other series so i think dedicating a character slot to them make sense. Plus its fits really well with the large customizable movesets. (As a side note id also like to eventually get waluigi in doing this same thing for mario party but he doesnt make the base roster cut.)
And lastly just the mc of another nintendo franchise. My personal top priority is pit but others are justifiable too and are people i would put in before nook
I don't mean to so bluntly refute this, but I can't stand for such Rocket slander, that's some absurd internet bubble you've found yourself in to believe that. If you tell ANYONE familiar with Pokemon "Prepare for trouble" they will respond with "And make it double". Not tied to the brand? Get outta here with that silliness, in terms of Pokemon characters there are few that can compete with how tied they are to the brand. Especially if the apparent competition is N, no disrespect to N but he doesn't have a fraction of the public outreach that the Rockets do, frankly they're on completely different levels of popularity.
Also partially my fault for not detailing it in the video, but both the Rockets and Red wouldn't just be using Gen 1 Pokemon, it's not a 'solely' dedicated slot. The Rockets would still have all the misfit friends they've made to choose from, Red would pull from all 9 Generations, it's got all the games repped, it's just that main 'faces' of the roster are the obvious choices that stand head and shoulders among the rest, that transcend that barrier between generations.
Again, don't want to come across to bluntly, but I think "Generation reps" mindset for Pokemon is inherently flawed. It's a continuous franchise, it shouldn't be gutted into chunks like that, I think its better to try and find ways to showcase it all at large rather than picking and choosing one for each Gen. Especially since at this point there's no way to catch up to how many gens there are, there'd always be some generations left behind if dedicated Gen reps were included.
@@TheDukeofDorks@TheDukeofDorks i said not tied with the games brand not the brand in general.(maybe i should have just said game my bad if my wording was confusing). Obviously the anime is super popular most people know it that doesnt mean they are neccessarily tied in to the games that much. The prepare for trouble line isnt even used by the game version unless were talking the mobile ones. If were going based on that i dont see why you would not also just do ash instead of red as hes also way more popular. If you played every mainline pokemon game theyd hardly be more notable then any other random named member of an evil team all of their relevancy comes from the anime. Id call most anime mc a notable video game rep before i counted team rocket as one. And like i said im not going to argue about the anime rule if thats your thing idrc i just think it looks out of place as the only 1 and i personally rather stick too stuff that actually represents notable things from games when making my own lists
If that was your idea that does solve that issue. I still peronsally prefer the idea of them sticking with mons they were known for using or were at least notable for games their present in but that does also solve the issue.
And my attempt was not to represent every generation. I just think its neccessery to spread it out somewhat as it looked like you were going to have it all from just kanto. I know trying to get a dedicated rep in for every single gen would be unnecessary and unrealistic. I chose those 2 because their teams have alot of really varied and popular pokemon (N has zoruark and a box art legend while like the majority of pokemon cynthia has used are pretty damn popular) which alongside red i thought could set a good baseline for repping the series as a whole
I would add Ghetsis or any one from team plazma instead with the final smash having one of the two fusion attack the opponent.
Very cool, I love your custom moves concept. But as DKC fan I think it would help non fans perception of the franchise and characters if K Rool was base roster and Diddy and Dixie were both added separately.
Because at the moment, many smash fans think of Dk only as a pissed off gorilla and not his chilled out, cool and kindhearted personality he has always had. K Rools inclusion could combat this and showcase DK’s heroism.
Diddy also gets misinterpreted as just a loud chimpanzee in a hat when he is so much more than that, as he had his own heroes journey in DKC2 all about proving Cranky wrong and overcoming the odds. And sadly Dixie only gets recognised as either “Girl Diddy” or “Diddy’s GF” when she also had her own story in her own game of proving she’s just as capable as both Donkey and Diddy. So personally I don’t think having them as a single roster spot would do them any favours when they could easily have their own individual move sets and customs that represent them as their own character.
100% agree, but an even easier solution is to just redesign DK in this reboot to be the chilled out, cool and kindhearted personality DK should have. better to fix that issue at the source, bring the characters up to the standard of quality they should've always had. Like, no way in hell is DK here anything other than that.
Also agree that it's a problem that Diddy and Dixie are seen in that way, but I also think that the perception that the depth of their personality couldn't be shown in a tag team feeds that false view of the characters. The issue isn't that they haven't been given enough time, its that the time they've been given has been devoted to a skewed representation. People worry about the tag team because they worry it would fall under that same skewed representation, but the problem isn't the tag team, it's initial idea behind Diddy in Smash.
Plus, like, far and away the best way to showcase a characters personality is to give them someone to constantly interact with, as that's the easiest way to show personality. If the goal here is to showcase who these characters really are, they should 1000% be a tag team duo, that provides so many more opportunities to show who the characters are.
@@TheDukeofDorks I think the issue is moreso on how it just feels like “Dixie can never be in smash unless she’s tethered to Diddy” when she’s a character that can carry a move-set all on her own rather than just being put together with her boyfriend.
I guess a good example of what I mean is how Adeleine and Ribbon have to appear together in the Kirby series when for the most part Adeleine can handle herself just fine, while Ribbon can play the support role or just not be there at all. With the Kongquest Duo it’s moreso the idea that both are capable fighters and can be distinct from one another in terms of moveset.
@@TheDukeofDorks You’ve convinced me , but if they’re together or apart I know I’d still love them just the same. X
There's no way Nintendo would ever let you launch without Peach. Fortunately Melee has 26 Characters, so if you're trying to match it you'd have one more slot!
Not gonna lie, but this Smah reboot looks HELL OF A FUN! ❤❤❤
OK. 1. The "Live service model" you suggested. That isn't going to make things better. It just means that they'll be selling an incomplete game at launch. NOBODY wants Early Access Smash Bros that you have to pay for incrementally. The backlash would be huge and (most likely) justified.
2. The custom move sets for EVERY CHARACTER... no. Just no. Even more no if they would be releasing even more characters under your Live Service idea. That is WAY too much work per character to be feasible. Made even worse by your wish for things like Break the Targets to be character specific again. There are reasons why most of the "Customized move sets" they already did do are mostly the same animations with different effects. It's a LOT of work. The game would have to be cut in other aspects to accommodate this.
3. FULLY AGREE. The roster and move sets NEED to be reset. For everyone. Absolutely agree 100%. No more clone characters. No more overabundance of one franchise over another. Just reset the who thing. Some moves can come back if they fit the character too well, no problem there, but giving the developers the opportunity to play with new ideas absolutely needs to happen if Smash is going to stay relevant. And ya. That means some people will complain because their baby isn't coming back, but with the roster being what it is right now, that's unavoidable. Keep the favorites. Throw in some wild cards. (as much as this hurts me) Maybe even throw out people like Fox and Captain Falcon, as Nintendo has no interest in doing anything with them and their inclusion would just remind people of what they can't have anymore. No, F-Zero 99 doesn't count.
Now, this is all dependent if there even is going to be a new Smash game after Ultimate. Honestly, I kinda doubt it. Would it be cool, especially if they shake up everything, trim it down and add a Story Mode, Target Break, and both Arena and Boss Arena again? Hell yes. But Sakurai was done with Smash after Brawl. He's not someone who likes endlessly remaking things (which makes me feel really sorry for him because he's most know for two things only). But, in that same vein, it might be time for someone new to take over Smash if Sakurai isn't feeling it anymore. But THAT would be a PR nightmare. So it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Personally speaking I’m not the biggest on the idea of rebooting Smash completely. But I know others are, and I can respect a lot of decisions here for the idea of a fully rebooted Smash game.
Overall, I think your ideas are bad. Not only would changing the gameplay this much cause a major outcry from the competitive scene that dislikes major changes, but reducing the roster this much and limiting it to first party only would cause a second outcry from the casual scene as well. Simply put, this would become the worst received Smash game.
Olimar definitely deserves to be in the game. Pikmin 4 is a very recent game. If shulk can be in the game, so can olimar
Have you ever been told that you sound like Patton Oswalt/Remy the Rat?
I like that you included Tom Nook. I also find Dark Matter a strange choice given that he's not very relevant. Maybe Magolor or Marx?
Also I'd love another video that shows more possible characters.
Find it odd how loose you were on suggesting Fox being Star Fox and Captain Falcon having other F-Zero characters, yet chose only Ness when I feel like it'd be a good opportunity for Ness to be able to choose between Ninten, Paula, Ness, Lucas, Claus, and Kumatora as their customization.
That's because I think Ness should be hard focused on being the "Paladin" of an Earthbound party, I'd want his moveset to revolve around bringing in his friends as "summons" of sorts and keeping them safe while they do their crazy stuff. Protect Jeff while he sets up his rockets, Paula will create massive psionic attacks if you can keep her safe, that sort of thing. And there's enough content behind that idea that I'd want to customize between all the crazy options that idea holds, not between various characters. Lucas could come back with his own customizable RPG party later, there's enough potential their to explore in further depth.
@@TheDukeofDorks Makes sense then, though I do feel like the customization aspect you discuss does feel pretty flimsy-floaty. Feel like the only cases where they should change moveset is alternate appearances a character has made (so nothing like Mario suddenly becoming Luigi for example) but cases where it is kind of the point to be similar like a Luigi->Gooigi situation would make a lot of sense. Since a large part of adding say, Falco or Captain Falcon in a Smash game *is* to give them brand new ideas that wouldn't really exist in their home series. So boiling cases down where say, Blood Falcon or Jody Summers were just a Captain Falcon reskin just doesn't sit right with the same concept you give to other characters. It definitely feels like no matter how the Smash game is rebooted, at least, they'll always introduce clone characters as their own slot due to the resource free aspect behind it and being the most consistent theme across any fighter.
Though yeah I don't think Ness would work too well as a summoner based RPG character, I feel like fighting games that do summons usually don't stretch past a single random move (think Captain Ginyu or Captain Commando) or revolve around a single character who is extremely close to the player character (like Rainbow Mika or Akira in SFV). Conceptually a moveset akin to "move setups" works best on a character like Snake or the Inkling where the things you set onto the stage are projectiles/objects. In theory though I guess the mindset would be Ness could only bring in 2 party members and they fill 2 of his specials, but I think maybe a condensed form of this idea would be to give Ness the moves himself in something of a "he's pretending to play the part" not unlike what Smash ended up rolling with. Setting up the rockets with a timed projectile, or create moments for yourself where you can boost your stats up for better attacks mid-match. As I feel like a huge fault towards a summoner type in a fighting game is wanting to make the game any sense of fast, or building a large roster of characters who largely aren't like this concept, it would more than likely leave Ness pretty easy to take out especially if a large part of his game plan revolves around throwing your Jeffs and Paulas out. It also would just take up too much screen real estate very easily and, if you were to make Ness any sense of viable, it would likely make him arguably "too much" of a stage control beast.
I guess with Ness on paper it just sounds like a bit of a conceptual inconsistency when you also throw in the idea of "old Smash movesets" briefly, so my intended expectation is "Oh yeah, Ness' moveset is just Paula's + Poo's PK Starstorm and is overall one of the most solid movesets Smash has given to a character like him." Though either way if I was building a Smash roster akin to this concept, I would have likely thrown Ness out altogether in favor of the retro represent going to something akin to Mach Rider/Excitebiker given Shulk fundamentally fills the gap of no RPG character in the roster and has become a current face of that genre for Nintendo at the moment. With Ness being early DLC to satiate the desire of Smash fans not too different from how Lucas was pretty much immediate in Smash 4's DLC run.
Still, it was an interesting concept nonetheless, as I do think a semi-reboot of Smash sounds neat. Especially if it becomes almost mandatory that the new Smash game gets directed by anyone other than Sakurai.
@@TheDukeofDorksI think what’s interesting about this idea is that… Ninten is right there and he infamously lacks any offensive PSI moves, I’d argue he’s a much better fit for this sort of design than Ness or Lucas especially when the latter 2 can have other PSI users as costumes.
(Lukkak speaking) As someone who hates Little Mac's current moveset, I think it would be a great idea to turn him into multiple characters. SPO protaganist could have the current moveset, MR Sandman would be a tank version of Mac, Aran Ryan would be Mac but unlikeable (also do that with Luigi and Waluigi), Piston Hondo could be Mac but quicker and a Sailor Moon fan ect.
Also I would like to work on thumbnails.
@@Lukkak09 Working on a 1 year PP thumbnail. Can I send it to Pyrr? and maybe make a drawing for MadArts?
Waluigi and Luigi are nothing a like.
@@INFERNO95 I guess you are right. I thought of a Waluigi moveset that is full on cheating like getting a new stock or breaking apart a stage and making him like Luigi wouldn't really do him justice.
Woah woah woah, I admire the ambition but the idea of a retrospective for PP was brought up as a "I don't know if I could do it myself, but I'd give my blessing to someone else if they wanted to try." And with Carson's help I've balanced out with the amount of thumbnails being created vs. the amount of things I'm able to make, I don't currently need more help. Sorry, should have headed this off earlier, but I only just noticed the comment in the submission document and had to backtrack.
Wait how about for a Xenoblade Representant we use Noah and for customization choices we could choice the different classes in Xeno 3, for example Noah but with a Master Driver miveset using Oyra and Mythra 👀👀
Honestly, in my opinion, to make a Smash Bros roster you must first start out small and work on each individual character to make sure that they're each functional and fun within the game, then rip out how powerful items and stage hazards were in the original games to blend together the casual and the competitive scenes and to give a better stage variety, then rework how various mechanics, such as shields, grabs, and other various attacks and options work while still keeping things simple enough. Basically, rework Smash Bros itself from the ground up before moving on to the roster, and to test Smash Bros itself we must first root out any and all problems within the existing system while still preserving the original system just for people to come to it if they want to.
Smash Bros 64 was the beginning
Smash Bros Melee was the second stumble that was revolutionary for the competitive community
Smash Bros Brawl was a huge casual undertaking
Smash Bros 4 Wii U and 3DS tried to bridge the gap between the two
And Smash Bros Ultimate was the ultimate final gambit. So, Smash Bros 6 must be the perfected model of taking advantage of everything Smash Bros has to offer, from its ingenuity, its opportunities, and its charm and world. It must adapt all of the characters nice and neatly into its own universe, propping them up into the legendary status that they came from and be given the VIP treatment they each deserve, either in the form of a new interpretation that can better fit into Smash Bros (like Bowser, Captain Falcon, or The Miis) or be as faithfully recreated as possible (like Mario, Samus, or Link). And I do mean everyone, not a single character or franchise gets left behind in this new game. It must have a greater focus before expanding its scope.
Like everything being said in the video so far, no band-aid solutions, no avoiding new systems because "Nintendo can do it better" because using the new systems like the live-service system with the Nintendo philosophy and passion is what's most needed!
Okay I disagree with the fact that Tom Nook was ever a villain, he's just a trickster and Redd is more of a villain than Tom Nook ever was, even leaving the guy in debt himself and forced to start over from the ground up in the first Animal Crossing game up until Wild World revealed his backstory.
Team Rocket needs to get into Smash!
I would main your concept for Dark Matter.
And that's about it for my comments.
Yeah, Corrin's dead.
Hi Carson! Hope to see more of your great work!
Oh... poor MadArts. I can't donate but I would love for my character, The StoryTeller, to be in the banner, but no. However, I will cheer everyone else on to do so, and if he ever comes across me on Discord, CZcams or even real life I will always try to cheer the guy up.
Speaking of Captain Falcon
Please for the love of Judas
Give me some new F-Zero characters in the next Smash game
Give me Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
Deathborn
Mighty Gazelle
Bio-Rex
Mr. EAD
Ect.......................................................................................
You’re telling me you’re rebooting Smash without including Piranha Plant?!? How DARE you. (For real though awesome video)
Good stuff! Meowth's always been one of those picks I'd love to see realized, but Meowth as part of Team Rocket has honestly never occurred to me, that's a really fun take. I know, realistically, The Pokémon Company is very strict about the extent to which human characters are able to participate in fights, but having some sort of integration between Red and Pikachu would be a dream, even if it's mostly Red standing on the sides and quickly switching around non-Pikachu Pokémon on the field.
Actually, quite a lot of this roster consists of personal dream picks. I'm fully on-board for all five newcomers (Nook's one I thought a lot about back in the Brawl days, Anna's one I've thought about a lot recently, Dark Matter you OF COURSE have me, Diddy & Dixie is a fine way to implement them). Would love to see how each character gets implemented here under the new system, too.
I wish they would bring Talking Meowth to Super Smash Brothers. 6
@@mitchellmyerson4304 Regardless
Please make it to where only Meowth and Pikachu are playable
WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE STUPID STINKING WORTHLESS POKEMON CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE WORTHLESS LINK, OR ZELDA, OR CAPTAIN FALCON CLONES
AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR
Personally I don’t think you should cut Olimar immediately from the base roster, especially when Pikmin is one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises atm (It’s getting a fourth game in a month) and personally I think you can swap out Isabelle or Yoshi for them, also when you brought up the idea of Toon as a custom version of Link.. idk I don’t think it can work as cleanly as you think, especially with the size difference between the two characters. That being said I do like the idea of certain characters being sort of variants for ones already in the game (For example you didn’t bring up how Sm4sh has bootleg Lucas with Ness’s custom moves and in this hypothetical smash roster, Lucas can still exist on this roster alongside Paula finally being able to fight with Ness.)
I’m still iffy on some of your ideas (Dark Matter sounds too mechanically complicated/annoying to fight as and against and basically making their character just being possession and nothing else when that’s not really their whole deal and Kongquest Duo is something I still think squanders Diddy’s arc as his own hero by being only able to compete if he has his girlfriend with him, and once again tethering Dixie to someone, if you were bringing up this idea of customization being a key factor, why not make DK the tag team character? Being able to pick which Kong he has as a personal backpack to assist them in battle?.) regardless I think this roster is a good start, despite some issues with it. Nice work regardless.
Soon as a Pikmin game manages to sell more than ARMS I'll give Olimar the priority, until that day comes he's just not that popular to be necessary.
You'd be right about Toon Link if we were following traditional custom move rules, but that's not what I have envisioned here. Calling these character slots is almost a misnomer, it's more "concept slots", taking a base moveset design and pushing it in whatever direction is possible. It's not supposed to be clean, Toon Link and Link would be just as different as you're envisioning, to a point that a traditional game would probably give them different roster slots, but I wouldn't here as I love the mental image between swapping between the two and watching all the items turn into wacky, cartoonified versions of themselves.
I do wanna ask, while I'm happy to just agree to disagree on the Diddy Dixie duo, I'm confused as to how making DK the tag team character is better in your eyes. Tethering both of them to an assistant role to DK rather than an equal partnership between the two just strikes me as an outright downgrade of the importance of both of them.
@@TheDukeofDorks Still ARMS isn’t the first non Mario franchise to appear at Super Nintendo World (albeit as small cameos but still). Pikmin is a mainstay Nintendo franchise regardless of sales.
Idk I think it still will would look incredibly awkward to see a Lanky version of Toon as a sort of costume for Link, I do like the idea of certain fighters returning as skins, but I still can’t really see it working for that example.
As for the DK tag team idea, I think with this whole idea of customization it works a little better, as much as it does relegate Diddy and Dixie to the Role of backpack and makes them non characters, I still think you can show the friendship/protection DK has for his little buddy and his little buddy’s girlfriend in their animations, giving them that family bond that’s important to the DK series, also it makes more sense for idea of customization, with Diddy on his back, DK is much faster and agile then he was before, but at the cost of some of his attack damage, Dixie makes DK a much more arial focused fighter making him floatier and a bit stronger at the cost of making him a bit slower, idk for a smash reboot I think that’s the better choice but that’s just my opinion in a perfect world, they’d all be separate characters but for a hypothetical reboot with a heavily downsized roster, I think this is a good compromise.
@@smashers6971 I don't know why you're assuming it would be a lanky version of Toon Link? It's still Toon Link in all his tiny glory. These aren't echo fighters, they're not bound by similar animation skeletons or whatnot, they're bound by having similar core ideas, an initial base that they heavily draw from to a point that they're integrated together. Again, "concept slots", not character slots.
Which, sure, could just allow them to be in separate slots, but putting them together forces interesting scenarios asking how an item that only one Link has used would be handled by another. Yes Adult Link has Remote Bombs and Toon Link regular, but only Adult Link has used a Spinner, so what would that look like when equipped to Toon Link? What wacky hi-jinx would ensue from a toonified version of an already wacky item?
I dunno, it's a hypothetical idea that I might be describing poorly. It's not "Here's a character with a handful of alts", it's "Let's devote multiple fighters worth of resources into a single character concept, how far can it be pushed?"
@@TheDukeofDorks yeah I think I get what you’re saying but I think it was just worded badly in the video, I think it just seems a little too complex and just raises the question, why aren’t they a separate slot.
I feel like I should say that I’m not saying this video is bad, I just think some things were kept a little too vague for the sake of just getting to the newcomers. But again that’s just my opinion
@@smashers6971 No I totally agree, I could've easily made this an hour long script explaining everything but then the video wouldn't come out for another 6 months and I want to work on other things. Better to throw it out and correct the handful that misunderstand, takes a lot less time that editing an extra 10 minutes of footage.
If it sells it better, it's not separate slots because splicing these into separate slots would look hideous and get in the way of including smaller, 'for fun' custom options. PLUS, if done this way, it makes it much easier to make... for example, a "Goron" moveset down the line, or a Zora one. Setting the precedent of making Zelda character slots a sort of hub for every incarnation of an idea and it becomes far easier to add one-and-done characters that keep playing the same sort of roles from game to game. It's weird, but there's a method to the madness.
Honestly.. this sounds like the opinions of someone who has no background in game design. This wouldn’t be smash anymore, or if it was, it would be way too much work for any developer to want to tackle.
Good video, but I’m not sold on Ness being the retro pick. You’re right that Ness is technically retro, but he would be a boring pick for a retro character because he has been in every smash game since the beginning. I would want to see something new like Sukapon or Balloon Fighter as the retro pick since they haven’t been playable characters yet rather than a character who has been there since the first game.
I wonder why they never did Meowth as a playable character?
This is significantly less terrible of a concept than most people who suggest this kind of thing, but I still don't think it's the way to go.
Expanding custom moves and blending them with echo fighters/costumes would be a balancing disaster. It would also clash with the competitive side if they were allowed to just ban everything until you only have the most sterile, vanilla options left. Doing that would kill the appeal to spectators. Imagine if Falco was too OP with some customs and we only saw Fox or all customs were banned because certain combinations were broken. The competitive Smash community already way overbans; they would eviscerate this... unless Nintendo cracked down and only allowed official Nintendo run tournaments.
If you did expand and blend custom moves with echo fighters/costumes, it would be better to just have a villager slot for Animal Crossing. It would be more efficient to just have custom moves for everything. It would also be more monetizable to have one character to dump costumes and moves on and let people have fun as their favorite villager. The Tom Nook concept sounds like it could be a fun mini-game or side mode, not a moveset. He should just be a costume or run a side mode.
There'd also be a dilemma if say Paper Mario became a Mario costume and then his own character. Players wouldn't immediately know what they were dealing with. That's probably a bad example though, because I don't think Paper Mario could be a costume with custom moves and also his proportions are different. But that scenario of costumes either being hard disconfirms for the full character, needing to be removed or creating chaos and confusion.
I would argue it's outright damaging to a game's design to handicap any vision due to how it would be handled competitively. Especially for something like Smash Brothers where the competitive scene is a minute portion of the actual audience that buys the game, even games that are actively designed for competition suffer from that mindset. For example every Blizzard game since Starcraft 2 has over focused on being as exciting of a spectator sport as they can be and they drive themselves into the dirt every single time by leaving casual players in the dust. Ya never design a game for a fraction of a percentage of your target audience.
I don't disagree that it would be a balancing disaster, it ABSOLUTELY would be. I just don't believe it matters. Competitive players can sort their picky preferences on their own, they are not and should never be the audience the franchise is designed for.
Not to say they shouldn't be given what they need, stage hazard toggles/training modes/all that jazz, maybe even have effort be put into balancing certain 'presets' of custom moves? "This is the platforming Mario, this is the RPG Mario, let's keep both somewhat balanced and let people go crazy mixing them with other toys if they want", something like that could work. But again, I think it's silly to write off a feature due to an audience that would likely ban any new feature regardless of complexity.
@@TheDukeofDorks I'd like to say screw the competitive people. I don't care that much about balance and I think the competitive community is overall childish and toxic. The community is loud and influential though and it's always helpful for a game to get the publicity esports provide.
There's unfortunately a balancing act of making a fun, hype game and getting that publicity by catering to that loud minority without them banning large chunks of the game. I can't imagine Nintendo not trying to walk that tightrope, but I wish they wouldn't because your concept sounds hype.
Anime fighters provide amazing fan service by disregarding balance; I'd love Smash to have that development mindset of packing in all the content they can and doing a quick balance check the last week.
Pretty cool!
Pikmin is now big enough that I would argue cutting Olimar is a mistake, especially because with your new customizations, you could have any Pikmin character included as a skin and with the plethora of Pikmin types you could customize movesets way more. But if you're looking for variety of movesets, Olimar has arguably the most unique playstyle.
Not to mention to Nintendo, Pikmin is at the height of its popularity with all four games on the Switch, with 4 selling incredibly (especially in Japan).
adding Warrio and Yoshi in the base roaster instead of Bowser and Ganon is insanely weird
I think you should only have 4 Mario reps(including donkey kong)
Dark matter or Marx is a tricky one but I think Marx is the better choice
You definitely should have had pit instead of Tom nook(Just keep him as a isabelle character)
Warrio,Yoshi,Zelda,Diddy and Dixie,and Mewtwo should have just stayed as spots for new series to add and if you don't want to add new
series just replace those 3 with Olimar,Mega man,Pac man,Ridley, and Richter
Even with 25 characters they still find a way to squeeze in 100 fire emblem characters. Also I'm kinda confused about why pick Dark Mater over another more memorable Kirby villain that can have a great moveset like Marx or Magalor I'm not saying Dark Mater is bad, but why pick him over the others especially when a lot of newer and casual fans of Kirby don't know that much about him. Overall great videos and even though we disagree on some stuff the concept is really good,
I love this idea. I have the same opinion, theyd need to cut a LOT of people, down to 25 and revamp the gameplay entirely. I agree with everything u said, except I think noah/mio would be better fit than shulk. XC3 has a class system with dozens of weapoms, including shulks monado and pyra and mythras swords (techinically its cosmetic but still), so I feel like theyd have greater potential than just shulk. Plus theyd be a newcomer which is always good.
Honestly thats a really cool roster very controversial but I'm borad
Could Use Peach and Olimar asap tho
Did you mention the Mii's where are the Mii's?! dammit! no Mii no buy 😂
I love the philosophy of this rebooted smash game but feel we could see a lot of these concepts incorporated with a slightly bigger roster (and with how echos are treated, we still get a good 25ish returning characters).
I feel this game wouldn't happen because of the negative outcry from launch. I'm just thinking of dexgate from Pokemon Sword. Although that was still the most profitable Pokemon game. Also sad to think of a version of Smash without any of my mains (K Rool, Hero, Plantgang, Joker, and Wolf). But also sad to think of a Smash game that has a lot less femme representation by taking out all the woman feom the Mario franchise and even taking out the OG 12. Sorry Hungrybox.
It also leans DLC into being more about returning characters (like Smash WiiU dlc). This type of move would probably be a post Sakurai move. But especially since WiiU was build on top of Brawl, and Ultimate was built on WiiU, I'd imagine that they would focus on continuing that trend to make a sequel that's bigger or close to equal the scope of this game or make drastic changes. Definitely something you achieved on the ladder side.
I find it interesting how you pick Mewtwo as the "only loses because they don't give a shit" character, when Mewtwo is usually depicted as being an overly serious character who just doesn't even allow people to engage with him. By contrast, Ganondorf is _right there_ and _consistently_ shown to not really take anyone too seriously. Hell, you could even play into that by giving him something akin to his old melee jab as this piddly love tap that has almost no range, but is fast and one of his most powerful attacks. Maybe even change the animation to be just this dismissive backhand.
Ness is also an interested pick for the retro slot in terms of what he could represet. I wanted to argue his inclusion, but he could also be a trojan horse to sneak in Ninten, Lucas, and arguably Kumatora into his slot. Wario also offers similar functionality, in that he would allow people to simply micromanage the -Ware to -Land ratio on how he plays, making him capable of several different archetypes at once, similarly to his plumber rivals.
As for a reboot roster, I generally agree with your picks, but it feels really safe to me. The only really whacky pick is Team Rocket, and deciding to ditch Villager for Nook. I think the roster for a reboot should be a bit safe, but I think we can get a little weirder.
Firstly, as a Yoshi main I'm happy that you think he barely eeks out a deserved slot. I would love to see him in an evironment that actually supports the backwards ass way I plah the little guy. However, as much as it pains me to say, I humbly disagree. Instead, I feel like Wii Fit Trainer should be thrown back into the ring. They would benefit greatly for how the new custom move system is pitched, as for them it could be framed more as the player choosing their "workout routine", with normals being a huge selection of yoga and calithetics, while the specials are all tool assisted work outs (ranging from the ones already in smash, to gym equipment the Wii couldn't reasonably have emulated, to non-Wii Fit games that also used the balance pad), and more mystical interpretations of yoga and pre/post workout routines (such as how Smash already interprets Deep Breathing and Sun Salutation, or perhaps even a spinal decompression with a hang bar that slightly increases WFT's attack range on completion).
Secondly, Shulk feels odd being here to me. Now this could be because I grew up with KOSMOS being pushed everywhere, but I feel like Xenoblade doesn't _quite_ fit as a "Nintendo property", despite functionally being one, in the same way as Bayonetta. So in the spirit of this being a first party focused roster, I'd like to propose he be swapped out a Custom Robo slot that would operate similarly to Star Fox, [Lord], and Ness (as mentioned before). It would actually be the ideal representation _for_ Custom Robo to, well, customize your robot. You make the robot before sending it out, and then can iterate on your personal robot between matches.
Finally, I'd like to see ROB in here. Not just for his historical significance, but because I feel like a reboot would allow him to expand upon his base concept. This is ROB as envisioned by a child playing with it. You know what I would do, if I was that child? Have him hold my Zapper and pretend its a Terminator. Let the robot use other nintendo accessories. Have him be _the_ video game accessory rep for the franchise. Though I have no idea who I'd swap out for him. My gut says one of the two Animal Crossing reps, but you'd have to hold a super scope to my head for me to decide which one should get the boot.
Also, I do support this being a live service game. Smash felt like it was flirting with the idea in Ultimate, and they really should just pull the trigger. All I ask is a "only play with content I own" button of some kind. I realize an anti-FOMO toggle may be a bad business move, but Super Auto Pets has its turn on by default and has shown no signs of slowing down. Plus every gatcha game on the planet is proof enough that adding new story content for each character as they drop is a viable narrative format. Shout outs to Final Fantasy Opera Omnia in particular for how its allows some characters to tell more personal stories with Lost Chapters instead of forcing everyone to join the grand epic from the word go.
Xenoblade is fully a Nintendo series. Monolith Soft had been a Nintendo subsidiary since 2007.
I'd argue that either Mewtwo or Team Rocket should get the axe,
Mostly Mewtwo, Pokémon has a lot of Gen 1 representation as is and Pokémon has literally 100's of other options.
While I understand Anna, I see her as a retro Fire Emblem character, probably because of the Nurse Joy effect.
I nominate Lucario and Fjorm from FEH
Regardless
Please make it to where only Team Rocket and Pikachu are playable
WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE STUPID STINKING WORTHLESS POKEMON CHARACTERS IN SMASH
ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS
ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE WORTHLESS LINK, OR ZELDA, OR CAPTAIN FALCON CLONES
AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR
Plus please don't give me more FE characters
@dylansmith5206 Ah, you're in that phase of your Smash Fandom. I remember being that phase. It was cringe.
Let me tell you about it: I was f*king mad when Corrin was announced. I was 14 at the time, and I wasn't having it, I was commenting angrily on several Smash related CZcams videos. I then saw Fire Emblem Heroes and decided to see if this "filth" was worth the roster spots it had accumulated, and I enjoyed it. My enjoyment of the characters and gameplay simmered down my rage for Fire Emblem. To the point that whenever Byleth was announced, I accepted his spot in the roster, not with rage but with pity for them.
What I'm saying is give Pokémon and Fire Emblem a chance and see how you feel.
I've seen someone who posts potential music for Smash on CZcams calling it "Super Smash Bros: Legacy" and that would be a pretty neat title for a game like this.