What if Melee had 6 more months of development?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- More characters. Bigger stagelist. New items.
Super Smash Bros. Melee with 6 more months of development would have added a lot. We can assume this based on how much Sakurai and HAL Laboratory managed to cram into the game in just 13 months already.
Melee "What If?" Video Playlist: • What if Slippy was in ...
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For this video, I've combined some research from official sources like the Smabura-Ken websites, with the knowledge we have about what Sakurai would include in future Smash titles, and my own personal speculation to conjure up a more fleshed out version of Melee that keeps the core of the game the same, but adds in previously cut or partially completed content as well as net-new content, illustrating this through the works of many talented Smash Bros. modders.
Sources:
Smabura-Ken (64): dvdv.kim/3ihm7k2
Smabura-Ken (Melee): dvdv.kim/3MZa8FY
Sakurai quote about considering Ayumi Tachibana for Melee: dvdv.kim/3ua8ybJ
Elevated Melee development documentary: dvdv.kim/meleedev
m-exTool (for modding Melee): github.com/akaneia/mexTool/re...
Prominent, relevant Smash Mods:
Brawl mods:
Project M / Project+: projectplusgame.com/
Smash Remix (Project M): forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/Braw...
Smash 2: / smash2official
Smash 2 Omega: forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/Braw...
Melee mods:
Akaneia Build: github.com/akaneia/akaneia-bu...
Beyond Melee: beyondmelee.com/home/
Animelee: www.animelee.xyz/
Smash 64 mods:
Smash Remix (64): github.com/JSsixtyfour/smashr...
In order of appearance (build links above, individual mods linked here):
Characters:
Wolf by Team Akaneia
Charizard by Team Akaneia
Ayumi Tachibana by Lo-fi Robot Guy: dvdv.kim/3wh279x
Diddy Kong by Team Akaneia
Wario by Smash 2 Team
Sword Melee Ganondorf by Caleb Robinson: dvdv.kim/3IlfBDt
Custom Melee color palette swaps by Team Akaneia
Urban Champion model by Lo-fi Robot Guy (not yet released)
Stages:
Melee-style Castle Siege by Anchorman: dvdv.kim/3il4Ar7
Sprout Tower by fluffy for Beyond Melee
Flat Zone II by Smash 2 Team, with a modified camera by soopercool101 via MarioDox
Minecart Madness by LlamaJuice, Nezha, DukeItOut: dvdv.kim/3ih7ddA
Unova Route 11 by Skeleton, with modifications by me: dvdv.kim/36aJPMu
Secret Cave by Smash 2 Team, with some modifications by me
Summit by Smash 2 Team
Sukapon by MyDudeman222: dvdv.kim/3tmpYCT
Meteo (asteroid / Venom stage) by Smash 2 Team
Music:
Wario Land Stage Theme (HD Remix) by Video Games HD Remix: dvdv.kim/3u9CeWp
Star Wolf Theme by Seve: dvdv.kim/3CQxDMR
Battle Map 1 Theme (Fire Emblem) by TheRyanada: dvdv.kim/3ijgzWh
Dark World Theme by The Blake Robinson Synthetic Orchestra: dvdv.kim/3MWnnY5
Game & Watch: Octopus (Modern Remix) by XTProductions: dvdv.kim/3N5hFTO
"Main Theme" Ice Climber Remix by NoteBlock: dvdv.kim/3qhGmCD
The Girl Who Stands Behind, Game Music Graffiti: dvdv.kim/3wg6yRW
Boy Meets Girl by Moola Mixtape: dvdv.kim/3tkyBxM
Pokemon Wild Encounter Theme by The Noble Demon: dvdv.kim/363mMDq
Other:
Star Fox Adventures Fox McCloud voice pack by me, not released or finished
Star Wolf voice and Melee UI modifications by me, not released or finished
Sheik Harp taunt by the Project+ Dev Team
Star Fox final smash Landmaster by Smash 2 Team
Charmander by Nanobuds, Iwvi with custom animation by me: dvdv.kim/3JEjC7H
Star Fox 64 3D Wolf artwork by Ligoexe03: dvdv.kim/3Ip2XDk
Kamek render by Nintega Dario: dvdv.kim/3wkfLJ4
Skull Kid render by MatttGFX: dvdv.kim/3qizd4R
Navarre render by Ambros489: dvdv.kim/3KQsfMm
Slippy model by Nick Bizzozero: dvdv.kim/3iB0ATP
Sukapon trophy by Fruit_Sauce: dvdv.kim/3qk4YL8
Little Mac Trophy Import by Fruit_Sauce: dvdv.kim/3IhbkRD
Foreman Spike render (unknown)
Chilly trophy by Fruit_Sauce: dvdv.kim/3KZhtTZ
Tetronimo trophy by Fruit_Sauce: dvdv.kim/3ucobzk
02 Trophy by Fruit_Sauce: dvdv.kim/3uddCMi
Fire Emblem Unit trophy: dvdv.kim/3CUnLS3
00:00 - Intro
01:48 - New Characters + Changes
06:35 - New Stages + Changes
07:39 - New Music + Changes
13:46 - New Items + Changes
17:20 - New Trophies + Changes
18:30 - New Single-Player Modes + Changes
21:29 - Prominent Smash Mod Spotlight
22:10 - Closing Thoughts + Outro
"T R O P H Y T U S S L E" background music by Fryman: • Fryman - T R O P H Y T...
Outro Music Credit: "Resting Place" by Garrett Williamson • Resting Place
#SSBM #Melee #WhatIf - Hry
Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed this, you might be interested in my documentary on Melee's development: czcams.com/video/-3HiXYdFz38/video.html
If they had more Time they”d probably add combos and fix all the broken mechanics
@@BurningRubber454 huh? Haha
@Ever alexander martinez lopez lol, as soon as someone makes it, I'll cover it.
E
@@davidvkimball what’s not to understand
I just noticed that Wario's moveset is different, he doesn't have his bike because it didn't exist until the WarioWare games, and his down special is a ground pound, which makes sense since is a move that wario uses in his boss fight in Mario land 2, that's such an awesome attention to detail
Yes, Smash mod does a wonderful job with that!!
Makes me wish he was included sooner. The fart move damaged Wario's reputation.
Well it is one of his primary moves in Wario Land as well
@@RichterTheRat I hate how Wario is now some funny fart guy and not the opposite of Mario, he should be selfish and greedy not smelly and disgusting.
@@piranhalettuce My thoughts exactly.
*Macho Jerk Wario >>> Gross Wario*
I love the concept for the Adventure mode stages, it reminds me a lot of the Subspace Emissary from Brawl. If we could get a version like that but for Melee, that would be sick. Awesome vid David! Glad I could help with some of my mod creations!
Thank you very much. Yes, my problem with Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode is, although the story is really fun and there's some serious novelty around these characters interacting in cutscenes, the actual levels can be fairly bland and uninspired. The generic Subspace world is not that interesting compared to Melee's approach of literally visiting the worlds of the playable characters. Also, it is WAY too long and drawn out, especially near the end when it's really a grind. I'd replay Melee's Adventure mode way more times even if it was just a bit longer.
I love your Urban Champion and Ayumi mods, they're SO cool. And I can't wait to see what you make next.
@@davidvkimball so true! Subspace gets put on a pedestal by people nowadays but it never really fit smoothly into the rest of the game. Melee's adventure mode always felt like an incomplete piece of a side scrolling mode that could've been pretty great.
@@Wuss2ns absolutely true.
The DK Mine Cart section would’ve been very fun and intuitive!
@@brandonwilliams6119 Glad you think so!!
Incredible video. David does it again.
Thank you Space!! I'm glad you enjoyed it
love your channel space chicken! Please upload soon.
Using mods to visualize the theoretical “full” Melee is really adds to the video! Didn’t Sakurai say he was approached by Konami to include Snake? Have heard Sega wanted Sonic in Melee too, IDK if that’s hearsay. Didn’t you forget Lucas? Somehow it never occurred to me that Akaneia Wolf’s design came from the intro!
Thanks! Actually not the companies but the characters' creators themselves approached Sakurai, but I think it would still be far too late to consider those inclusions. Also Lucas was only considered as a replacement for Ness, not a net-new character.
@@davidvkimball Yuji Naka asked sakurai to put Sonic at e3 2001, if melee was delayed by 6 months, around early to mid 2002, they would have had nearly a year to add Sonic, so I think Sonic could have happened, also Nintendo would have wanted to promote Sonic Adventure 2 battle that was just released. I don’t know about snake though.
Lucas was going to replace Ness, but was scrapped entirely when Mother 3 was cancelled
@@Melonposting At least for a while.
It's nice to see the Melee modding community getting some attention.
Well-deserved to be honest. Some outstanding creators there.
You can tell some of the footage shown is from modded Brawl, notably anything showing Wario
@@kerokerocola99 I'm pretty sure all of the Wario footage is melee but even then I'm only 1/3 of my way through as of commenting
@@90sNath The Wario footage is not melee, it's a Brawl mod called Smash 2
@@kerokerocola99 Yeah, but it’s still a mod involving Melee assets. OPs comment still applies.
that extended Adventure Mode looks so fun, I wanna try it out
Hey
same
Thank you!!
Man do I miss this cohesion and vision of Melee.
Ultimate is great and all, but I miss the days when it was about modernizing and giving equal celebration to Nintendo’s worlds.
Everything from the character models to the music in Melee is SO... Melee!
Right?! To add on to what you're saying, Melee has such a distinct artstyle and elevation of quality to everything it touched. Part of what makes it so special is it's the Nintendo 64 and SNES era fully realized artstyle-wise, where the true vision they had in mind could be more fully articulated through higher poly models, non-MIDI recorded music tracks, and increased storage space.
Melee styled profile picture, hmmmm
Marvelously Spoken!
Melee had such a vibe. I wish they'd go back to that feeling a bit more in future games.
@@KirbyGotenksabsorbed completely agree
Thinking how different my childhood would be if 6 months passed it’s just insane, awesome video man
Thanks a lot!
Probably one of the greatest "What If" videos I've seen. Fantastic research and editing man, I love it!
Thanks a ton!!
the adventure stages were mindblowing with how accurate they look
it rlly is like a more finished version that fills those awkward abrupt transitions to other worlds, especially the donkey kong stage
shoutouts to modders and yourself for putting this all together ❤
Thank you!! That was the idea. I wanted to find things that would make sense and fit aesthetically!
Clicked for the Ayumi representation but that fleshed out version of Adventure Mode was the highlight. Really love the idea of traveling a Route and battling some of the roster Pokemon on the way to the Stadium fight or doing a bit of a standard Kirby first level before the Green Greens fights.
Thank you! It was really fun to dream up!
Bruh, mewtwo would've kicked ass to go up against!
I had been thinking of a timeline where Melee came out in mid-to-late 2002 and wasn't required to be a launch title (which it ended up missing anyway) so I'm glad you talked about this.
Most of your vision sounds great, especially the fleshed out Adventure Mode, but in my vision...
- Either Sonic or Snake would be added, as they were personal requests. SEGA's budding relationship with Nintendo will ease negotiations. (yeah, it needed to have been planned first)
- Board the Platforms would be added to Classic Mode and "snag trophies" bonus stage would be part of Trophies (think Coin Launcher from Brawl)
-Ness would get a new costume based on Lucas, despite Earthbound 64 (Mother 3) being cancelled, just as a nod
- A " back stage" based on A Link to the Past, probably the Dark World
- Wario might be able to get one stage, presumably based on Wario Land 4
- Another Johto Pokemon may be included
- More trophies from future releases
- Funal Smashes would be implemented and make their debut
Yay!
- I don't think a third party rep could have worked without being planned from the beginning.
- Agreed, great ideas regarding Board the Platforms and Snag the Trophies being added
- Love the idea of a Lucas nod!
@@davidvkimball yeah, you're right about third party characters being planned. Stay tuned for my edit.
I think instead of Roy we would’ve gotten Lyn to promote the FE7/Blazing Sword if that were the case and maybe even Krystal from Starfox Adventures but that’s a stretch and I’m getting ahead of myself lol.
I have to admit that this video is really impressive; being a "What If" video but that does take either interesting or very plausible ideas for the game (the secondary stage music), taking pages from what Brawl ended up making (the extra stages), or even through the awesome mods out there in order to visually represent all of these cut ideas (characters), and getting to back-up almost everything with information from Sakurai himself. While the idea of Brawl stuff being implemented in Melee like that sounds a bit crazy, it does work well enough as a representation of the idea, and if anything, there have been so many times of Sakurai getting to use ideas for past games into the next ones (like everything you mentioned that was intended from 64 to Melee, and the Final Smashes alongside the Fire Emblem stages also being planned in Melee).
Oh, and while it feels a bit odd that there's nothing mentioned about Sonic, I did read somewhere that the consideration of Sonic in Melee was mentioned only by Yuji Naka instead of Sakurai, and while it was apparently dropped due to time constraints, I guess that there's either no solid proof on that he would have been in anyways as Sakurai only talked about him during Brawl, was an idea brought by Naka but not realized or prioritized by Sakurai, or the fact that everything else mentioned in the video would likely have received more priority than Sonic.
Keep spreading the Melee love my dude!
Thank you so much! Yes that was my plan, a feasible explanation for what Melee could have really been like if it had been given more time. There are plenty of clues out there to look at, and I frankly am surprised not many other people are doing this, especially with Melee modding really taking off recently and it becoming more and more feasible to include these visual aids.
And you are 100% on the money with Sonic. I thought about it, but ultimately figured even the idea of a third party character being included would have probably needed to be something that was planned from the beginning, so even if Yuji Naka did contact Sakurai and he did seriously consider it, who know if even 6 extra months would work with a contract with Sega and Nintendo, since the Dreamcast was just barely at end of life at that point, and would have still been seen as more of a competitor.
I wish this was the Melee we would've got (because wario will make it 10/10)
I'm extremely happy with the Melee we got, but this is definitely fun to think about!
However Sakurai was worried about Mario Over Representation since Wario was still seen as a Mario character and Warioware not existing yet but yes it is fun to imagine Wario being in Melee.
We could have waited some more, it didn't have to be a launch title.
@@hitkid2456 And even then, when we got it wasn't quite a lunch title! 😂
@@davidvkimball Well it was in Europe and Australia at least, and pretty close otherwise.
They were still able to achieve a landmark though, just a shame it wasn't the one Wario debuted on and that installment had nowhere near the longevity. (But hey, at least he did get his own game in those days, so it wasn't completely sad for him.)
I played so much Diddy Kong Racing and DK64 back in the day so if Diddy were in Melee not that long I was playing those games I would’ve been super stoked for him. and any additional DKC content in general.
Me too! I played a ton of DKR and DK64, outstanding games.
Man your killing it with these melee vids! Loved every bit of this What IF!
Thank you so much! I want to make more!
This is a wonderful take on what a more complete Melee would've looked like. (emphasis on "more complete" since I imagine even with the extra 6 months, they still might not have been able to implement everything they wanted to)
The choices for stuff to include in the game are very interesting. Ayumi, especially, was a curious decision as I wasn't even aware her game existed until I saw this video. I also love the expansion to Adventure Mode, as that was my favorite mode to play through!
To think Smash Balls were a concept even before Brawl's conception astounds me, I think that's one of my favorite bits of trivia to discover from this video.
While not my first game ever, Melee was the first game I ever owned along with the GCN being my first owned console, and watching this whole video brought back so many feelings I had experienced in all the time I played this game.
For me, Melee was more than just a game, it was a gateway that opened up so many new worlds beyond the imagination of little me. I was especially awed when I encountered Marth and Roy and unlocked them, and thinking about it, maybe I would've felt the same for Ayumi since before Melee, the world I perceived was simply just the U.S. (despite what I learned in social studies lmao)
Makes me even more grateful they allowed Marth and Roy to be playable in the international release!
Despite some of the rep it got later on in the mid 2010s and so, when I look back to Melee, I just can't help but smile and try to envision what it may had been like were it to had recieve it's full development. That said, I am still grateful for what we got at the time and forever, it is ingrained in my memory as the beginning of my journey across series both on and not on Nintendo platforms.
I hope this mod continues to grow, I remember one of the things I learned later that made me sad was the Archanea stage being initially planned only to be scrapped before it could even be fully realized, so to see an attempt to bring it to life using Castle Seige as a base brings a smile to my face.
I also love the inclusion of tracks like Boy Meets Girl and the theme for FE1's First Battle Map as well!
Bless you for making this video!
What a magical comment! Thank you!
Final Smashes were actually planned for Smash 64 originally!
If you enjoyed these bits of trivia, I strongly recommend you watch my documentary on Melee's development, I think you'd learn a lot and get much enjoyment out of it! czcams.com/video/-3HiXYdFz38/video.html
Did you also know that Leif from Thracia 776 was originally going to be the Marth Clone before they settled on Roy?
I never knew how much I needed an Adventure mode stage based on DKC's minecart levels until now
:D
I'm actually quite surprised Falco got in over Wolf. One would expect the body shape to be more similar between Fox and Wolf and that adding a villain to face off against Fox would be better than making just one of his teammates playable.
Right! However I think the other Star Fox team members were more popular in the Smash 2 pill, also Sakurai wanted to add the other Star Fox team members since Smash 64.
Yeah that’s pretty ironic now that you mention it. If I had to choose between Wolf and Falco it will always be Wolf. Seems like Falco is now grandfathered into Smash and will likely never get cut. Same with Roy too who originally wasn’t going to be in but instead, Leif from Thracia 776.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Well at least Roy was promoting the release of a new game. Falco had no monetary incentive there. I guess he just got in because Sakurai liked him better than Wolf (and to his credit, he is certainly the coolest of the original Star Fox team). Incidentally Roy being included in Smash before his game was even released kind of made him pretty inaccurate in Smash. For one he looks a few years older in Smash, but more directly, in his own game he's noticeable for having a long range weapon while in Smash they kind of made him a close range fighter because it was easy to make Marth with an altered sweet spot (not sure why they didn't just give him the Lucina treatment though). Kind of disappointing that in his two subsequent appearances they never attempted to give him anything resembling a projectile.
Idk, to me Wolf would seem too much like a cheap clone. Even more so than Falco
@@Jotari don't know why. Swordfighters with projectiles are cringe
I really like this concept! The only thing I have a major disagreement with is Ayumi being a Zelda semiclone, Sakurai would've definitely give her a unique moveset. Other then that I love what you did for everything else.
Thank you! The semi clone bit was to justify her as a last-minute inclusion only, since 5 more characters is in and of itself a stretch!
What would they even give her? The Detective club games dont exactly give her much to work with.
@@Klonoahedgehog Improvisation is the key.
@@Klonoahedgehog I made a moveset for Ayumi, faithful to her origins but functional. Even Lofi Robot Guy (The user who's working on Ayumi's mod) would use that to improve her.
@@GlitchanBlack Yeah but that can't always work.
Great video, I love the fact you go the extra mile of visualizing potential concepts on how they would have looked in the game!
Thank you! All of the cool mods make the process a delight, and yeah it's extra work but I love seeing the result.
Hi Zach!
Absolutely seemless, and great choices on custom music and graphics! Absolutely another high quality video 👌 can't wait for what that future project is!
Thanks Toti! I'm so glad you appreciated my choices, because I know everyone has a different idea about what this might look like.
Really cool vid. Interesting to see what could've been. I heard from other places that sukapon would've like a moveable platform to ride on, but i thought that never made much sense for the character.
First off, outstanding work on your PSA for Sukapon. And yes, Sakurai himself mentioned that characters could ride on him as an item in Melee, but he was cut. Super weird, I had trouble making sense of it, too. lol
Props to all those who put in the work for this, it’s so sick
This is the kind of video I love seeing. Not sure if I should describe them as what ifs but I always love the idea of thinking, what if that old game had more development time, more specifically, Smash Bros games since it really can feel like looking in an alternative universe and how it can change the future of the series. I also like the extra stages ideas for the Adventure mode.
I'm really glad you enjoyed this. It's fun to spark that kind of imaginative process, where you think about what could have been in a creative way.
Your ability to create quality video assets in line with Melee's style is insane. Goes to show how dedicated this community is. Amazing work, David!
Thank you very much!!
Dope video! I find it so interesting to learn about Melee's development. Keep doing what you're doing, can't wait for the next one!
Thank you! I can't wait to share more. 😊
Great video! Well paced with a concise script / edit and everything is sourced properly. I love to see content like this!
Thank you so much!
David did you know Smash Remix is getting its own tournament scene? It's got its own Wikipedia on Smash Wiki as well just like PM. I know melee is your game but 64 will always be my favorite smash game:)
Smash 64 is an outstanding game. I love seeing Remix getting the attention it deserves. Conker has been my favorite inclusion so far. So much creativity in the moveset, love the music, stages, etc. I also love playing it on my actual N64 hardware, too.
@@davidvkimball My favorite so far was Sonic, Super Sonic, Mewtwo and Young Link.
Since Sonic is in it'd be Awesome to get Cloud.
David I need to ask you as a competitive player..
Limit Charge is an integral part of Clouds moveset.
Since 64 has no Side B. One move must be chosen
Which would work better in Smash 64 metagame in your opinion?
Blade Beam or Cross Slash?
@@davidvkimball Clouds Up B and Down B would be the same
@@StarForceBelmont321 I think Blade Beam is more of a Smash 64 move, being just a basic projectile with the only special property being that it's weaker in the air
@@StarForceBelmont321 Good question. Both are iconic, my instinct says Blade Beam stays. What do you think?
For Earthbound having such a robust soundtrack to source from, I’m surprised we didn’t get better representation for it than a Mother 1 track.
It has a wealth of amazing melodies that's for sure.
Great video, thanks for the info on Melee and having all info in description!
You're welcome!!
Amazing work on this video! I saw it recommended to me and took a break from some late night work just to check it out!
Hooray! Thank you!
Good video! Everything in the video is so good, the way you say everything, and it even makes you want to be in that timeline and play that version of Melee, of course, without Poke Floats... Lol, Also that everything in the video looks so real, even in the parts where you use the Smash 2 mod.
Also, I would like to see someone else do the same but with Smash 64 as an example, knowing that according to Sakurai that game could only have had 60% of the 100% that Sakurai wanted, we would have had King Dedede, Bowser, Mewtwo or Marth, and who knows, some other character, (Of which, 3 we already have in Smash Remix)
Thank you so much!! I'm open to that.
Resetti getting swallowed up by brinstar juice and saying "there ain't much air in here" or something was comedy gold. Great job planning that one out David, you entertainer you
Hahahaha
Amazing video, David! It's no surprise to me!
Thanks so much for all this cool information! I particularly enjoyed your additions to Adventure mode. If you had told me that all of that was Sakurai's original plan, I would have believed you! It was perfect! It was nice to see all the amazing Smash Mods back to back. As a kid,I never would have dreamed we would be able to add so much to the games we love!
Thanks Carl! That's really nice of you to say. 😊
Finally got around to watching this very nice. The one thing I would maybe change about your vision of Adventure mode is having the Underground Maze use the unused version of the Temple theme the Yotsuya Kaidan version as the tone seems like it fits that adventure mode stage better than the final version of Temple, other than that I can't really think of anything else to change this hypothetical version of Melee except for maybe giving Young Link his Majora's Mask Gear instead of his Oot Gear when possible (which would be everything but the Boomerage since that's not in Majora's Mask so that would be based on Oot still). Good work as usual.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, man! I like the idea of making Young Link more of a Majora's Mask rep. That would be outstanding.
Great video. I feel like one last detail they would have changed with 6 extra months would be to have given Luigi his own unique voice clips instead of sped-up Mario clips.
True!
If I was to throw in 2 more things, I would also add Sonic as a fighter, and a stage before Onett in Adventure Mode.
Sonic seems like a perfect character addition in my mind had the game had more time, as by then Sonic would have had multiple games on Nintendo consoles worldwide.
I don't know much about Mother/EarthBound, but if I remember right, maybe there could be a stage where you start close to Ness' house after the meteor strike and make your way down to the Onett stage area while fighting some of the beginning EarthBound enemies along the way.
Other than that, this seems like a pretty accurate interpretation of what this game would have been like if it had 6 more months of development. Great work here!
Thank you, and good ideas!
Stellar as always, I love the polish all of your videos have David
Thank you!!
This is a great video!! Really like knowing this. I never knew any of this but so cool though and hearing what it is like if it becomes into the game.
Thank you so much! If you enjoyed this, I recommend checking out the documentary I made on Melee's development: dvdv.kim/meleedev
Brawl Minus just had its 12th anniversary and the devs released a post going into detail on their team growth, and the upcoming version. They're still chugging away at getting their next big update out after all this time. It's unfortunate to not see it included amongst the rest of the mods here
That's a good point. I should have included it! I was thinking more about Melee and 64-derivative mods since those are my favorite Smash games.
That's a good point as well. I can see how it would have stuck out a bit then. Still a great watch nonetheless!
@@EpicNonBread Thanks!!
I always assumed the characters in the melee intro would have been playable with more development time like Ridley, Wolf, and Samurai Goroh.
That was never Sakurai's intention, on the Melee Smash Bros. Fist website he very clearly stated that just because people appear in the opening doesn't mean they'll be playable fighters in the game.
Great video David, very informative and an interesting concept! Especially love the more fleshed out Adventure mode! Would be cool if you did more of these for other smash games! 😁
Thank you!! An actual Adventure Mode concept for Ultimate could be fun!
This is the absolute best video and subsequent representation of what a more fully realized Melee would look like, the amount of research and thought put into this is incredibly commendable. Also nice to see how much farther Melee modding is coming in comparison to it's younger Wii sibling now. Curious to see more of Ayumi though, by far the most interesting pick for the roster here.
Thank you so much!!
I think it is worth mentioning in the video that final smashes had sound effects in 64. I think that makes them a likely inclusion in Melee, had they been given more time.
It's a great point!
board the platforms in melee would be a dream. the #1 feature i’m most excited for in this hypothetical version. if there is a mod for that, sign me the fuck up.
although that mewtwo fight is a real cool idea. fantastic video.
Thank you! I haven't seen anything like Board the Platforms in Melee yet, but I have seen some experimental break the targets level edits in Brawl that are really cool.
Fantastic video, David! Thanks for putting out such high quality content for the Smash community
Thank you so much! 😊 I appreciate your support a ton
You put a lot of work into this David, you did a great job. I just lament that a scenario like this didn’t happen in vanilla and who knows if Ayumi ever makes it in the series. Fortunately mods are here for that. It isn’t the same, but it’s close.
Thank you
Amazing video! Here are my ideas for melee.
Extra:
- Luigi's voice clips were taken from N64 games and Luigi's Mansion instead of high pitched Mario's voice.
- Yoshi's Island icon uses Mushroom icon instead of an Egg.
- Ganondorf, Falco, and Roy got their own movesets.
Characters:
- Wario: Replaces Dr. Mario's spot next to Mario.
- Toad: He should've been playable alongside Bowser, and Peach so the roster could be a reference to Mario Kart 64.
- Meowth: Replaces Pichu's spot next to Pikachu. I mean he was Pikachu's rival after all.
- Donkey Kong Jr: Because at the time he was playable in Super Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, and Game & Watch Gallery. I thought he would be a new character in the game before Diddy Kong appear in brawl.
- Pit: He should've appear in Melee early along with Ice Climbers.
Fun list! One thing that doesn't make sense to me though is Mushroom symbol instead of Yoshi egg, since in Smash 64 he already had his own series. Good thoughts otherwise!
great cometaro
That was so cool! Wario would've been in Melee early after Bowser and Dedede's debut in Smash 64 in the alternate timeline. Wario has his own franchise which represents Wario Land in Melee. I was hoping that the clones are still gonna be there. And you know what Sakurai said If he could have added one or two more characters, then he might be able to include Wario. And yes, I like to think Ganondorf will only have three unique moves which is his forward aerial, forward tilt and forward smash that involves his sword from Spaceworld 2000 while the rest of his moves were cloned from Falcon. :)
I'd like to think similar to PM Ganondorf!
fantastic video as always, love your work man!
Thank you so much!
Great video as usual man, love all the new adventure mode stuff you showed off. Man it would've been cool to have had the mines from Donkey Kong country
Thanks dude!!
You really make this all feel authentic in a way that just looking at screenshots of it wouldn't. Great video as always!
Oh, and also you are godlike for sourcing literally everything you show off in the description, both for giving the various creators the credit they deserve, and for making it easy for people to check their stuff out themselves.
Thank you so much!
That is very fascinating to think about, I love how we reached the point where we can make certain dreams come true in Melee and things that never went as planned due to those grueling 13 months of development, also Ayumi Tachibana is Ultra Based!
Yay, I think so too! Thanks for commenting. :)
This is truly phenomenal. Amazing video!
Thank you!
Wow this is incredible. Even being into the melee scene to where ive even tried out akaneia and played some epic wolf sets including some against m2k (he destroyed me xD)
Still despite having seen all that and more there's still sooo so many incredible mods I've yet to see that look like something truly special. I remember spending countless hours as a kid enjoying the adventure and classic modes. Would be really cool to get to experience this new updated version that seems like it's pretty far along. In general the melee and smash community as a whole continues to innovate 20 years going strong.
19:32 It would be cool if each Master Sword pedestal could start a fight with other characters besides Link, such as Zelda, Sheik, and Young Link. Also, it would be cool if Zelda or Link teamed up with you in the next stage to fight a powered up Ganondorf on Temple. I just had an idea for it, actually: Ganondorf would be invulnerable to the player unless Zelda/Link attacks him first, making him vulnerable for a bit (a reference to OoT). Maybe Zelda/Link could glow with light and Ganon could glow with dark purple to indicate this mechanic or something, and when his protection is down, his glow would disappear. Zelda/Link might have to be able to respawn for this concept to work, though.
I'd also want 1 custom color slot per name tag. I'll reply to this comment if I get another idea.
These are all great ideas!
Since we got Famicom Detective Club in the west in a form of remakes of the 2 games, I hope Sakurai will add Ayumi in the next installment in the future. And hey, Ayumi is voiced by Videl in Japan!
true!!
i think they will just rerelease Ultimate for new consoles. maybe with new dlc passes
@@Hugo_Prolovski That honestly.sounds.really.lame.since Ultimate ain't exactly a perfect game to put it lightly
Ayumi could be so fun and interesting to play, I hope one day it’s realized.
They have revisited old concepts and made them realities years later, like with the Ditto PokeBall. I would love to see Ayumi because I think she would have a unique play style, and I think we need to have more obscure characters in Smash Bros. This is why I want to see Takumaru and Euden in Smash Bros as well, since they come from obscure franchises and could have unique play styles (despite both of them being “anime sword fighters”).
this is a pretty cool video
and now that i think about it, i new wonder what all the other games would be like have they readded all the planned, considered and scrapped characters, including characters who joined in later games appearing in games they weren't in originally, like having Sora in Brawl with his Kingdom Hearts 2 design or adding in Cloud And Sephiroth to the first game and Melee
Agreed!
@@davidvkimball yep, that would be really cool
The fact that Melee was made in little more than a year is such an incredible feat. Looking back today, when the game has been so dissected, it's easy for people to call it "broken" and "buggy" but playing it casually when it came out, it actually felt extremely polished and had massive amounts of content compared to other fighting games from its era. It's crazy to think about how much more could've been done with just a few months of development, although the team probably would've taken things a bit easier if they had more time, realistically speaking.
You're probably right on the latter point about taking it easy. I don't understand why people would call the game broken or buggy though. Compared to any other game released around that time it's not.
unacceptably low view count for the amount of effort you put in, I hope this gets a big bump. very well done
Thanks!!
If it were up to me, Adventure Mode would have more to do with a story based around the fmv scenes in the intro. Very similar to Subspace Emmisary. In fact, I'm sure that's what Nintendo wanted to do in the first place.
Yes, would seriously love that!
Great video! Everything was very fascinating, 💯/10
Thank you so much! Big fan of your work. :)
Love it! Great job dude!
Thanks Ben!!
I love the Ideas of these new upgrades/updates version of thus and always feels like a "Director's Cut" to some things that didn't' make It In the original and I appreciate the new changes that you do. Though I may be mostly a "Brawl" and "Ultimate" person myself (mostly on Ultimate since "Brawl was more of my teen years), It's still always nice to revisit Melee to relive some of my Inner nostalgia and still hope to see my other favourites who deserves to be In for the next update as well.
Will there also be newer cutscenes when facing other challenger or the giant versions of them or everything will remain the same? For example; we got Luigi jumping ontop of Mario head and you have to fight him and Princess Peach, but how would Diddy be Introduce or will the duo appear like normal or that depend If you unlock everything but If you didn't unlock the secret challenger you can still unlock them In regular adventure?
OH heck yeah! More cutscenes would be amazing. Just harder to illustrate those things in this video. 😂
@@davidvkimball Oh okay. Sorry If confused you but my English Isn't too broken all the time. ^^;
If there was a super smash bros melee definitive edition they should add online multiplayer, final smashes, assist trophies, an option to change the controls, c stick smash attack charge, all the n64 stages & the added fighters would be wario (with a wario land based moveset), diddy kong, wolf, sonic & King Dedede.
Great idea!
Fantastic video, I think this version of Melee could've been potentially even better than what we got in many ways. Personally, although the ideas for Adventure Mode were great, I think increasing its length so much would reduce replayability.
Fair enough Andrew, I did think about that, so I didn't add too much extra. Just adding two net-new stages (Minecart Madness and Pokemon Route to Vermilion City) and replacing two stages (first Kirby vs. is the Pop Star / Dream Land adventure part, and first Fox encounter is replaced with the Asteroid encounter).
Where has *this* video been these past couple years of my life?
I always love me some extensive what-if scenarios on video games, whether it's about explaining how a less-than-stellar game could've been salvaged, or imagining how a great game could've turned out even better. Melee, a title that has enjoyed fame (and infamy) since it's release way back in 2001, had a development period that was as fascinating as it was strict, what with it needing to be out by the holiday season of that year to push early Gamecube sales. You have to wonder how the system would've gotten by if Smash fans had to wait until the middle of 2002.
Wario, Diddy Kong, Wolf and Charizard may have needed another game, in the latter half of the 2000s, to get into the series, but they feel so at home in Melee, as if they were meant to make the cut a lot sooner. For the fifth extra character, call it wishful thinking, but I imagine King Dedede getting in a game earlier, too, just to immediately complete the tetrad of those whom were considered for the Nintendo 64 original. Kirby is Sakurai-san's pride and joy, after all.
A note about character select arrangement: I like the idea of Wolf being positioned under Falco, at the bottom-left, sitting parallel to where Ganondorf is, the top-right.
Concerning the addition of stages, besides Kongo Jungle, Yoshi's Island, Dream Land and Meta Crystal, Hyrule Castle and Saffron City would probably be the best choices to bring back from the original Super Smash Bros. stage selection, for extra Zelda and Pokémon stage representation, and their designs. To save on building time, I'd picture Icicle Mountain and Flat Zone remaining the only stages for Ice Climbers and Game & Watch, and only *one* Fire Emblem stage, which would be placed above Flat Zone on the stage select screen. But, if Sprout Tower were to have gotten made and replaced Poké Floats, here's an idea on preserving the *idea* of that stage.
Keep the idea of giant character floats/statues/animatronics, but change the theme. How about... *Famicom/NES* Floats? Yeah, the background and function of the stage would be the same, but instead of Pokémon, there'd be various characters from the many small Famicom and NES titles (that aren't Ice Climber). Ayumu would be included, along with Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Takamaru, Tamagon, Bubbles, Sukapon, Donbe & Hikari, Eggplant Man, the ducks from Duck Hunt, and more. They could even use the trophy designs. On the stage select screen, this would go under Icicle Mountain. Also, the main music track for it could be a Famicom Detective Club theme as a tribute to the most notable Smash newcomer who never was.
Speaking of music tracks, here are alternate music track ideas: a remix of Koopa's/Bowser's Road from Super Mario 64 for Rainbow Cruise, remix of Lockjaw's Saga from Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest for Kongo Falls, a remix of The Last Iceberg from Kirby's Dream Land 3 for Fountain of Dreams, a remix of Meteo from Star Fox 64 for Corneria, a remix of Lower Norfair from Super Metroid for Brinstar Depths, and a remix of White Land II from F-Zero for Mute City. Also, I'd swap the main music tracks of Corneria and Venom.
One more thing I'd add is another Event Match, bringing the total of those up to an even 52. It would simply be an alternate take on The Showdown where the player battles Bowser, Metal Mario and Giant Donkey Kong on Battlefield. I'd call it Boss Rushdown.
And that concludes my giant comment. Thanks for reading if you have!
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. I really enjoyed reading them!
Wow, Incredible !
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@@davidvkimball I'm really hyped for the secret upcoming projects that you will talk about it soon.
@@h_b_g_4 Good! You should be, they're REALLY cool.
Wario would’ve been in Melee if There had been a little more time for Melees development as Sakuri stated so he definitely would’ve Been there
Yep
i love the use of mods and edting tricks to make this idea to life
Thank you so much!
Great collaboration with all these modders!
Thanks!! It was really fun to see what amazing stuff has been made and leverage it for some visual aids. Really helped sell my ideas.
When it comes to Rare characters, besides Banjo & Kazooie, I think Conker would’ve been a given as well if Melee had had more development time.
He was a pretty iconic Nintendo character with a fairly mainstream game released a few months before this game and considering how Sakurai even opened up the possibility of Snake being in Melee, I really doubt he would find BFD’s content a problem. Maybe Fulgore from Killer Instinct could’ve been added as well.
To be honest, if we did get two Rare reps in Melee, the other would most likely be Joanna Dark. Perfect Dark was in the top 10 highest rated games on Metacritic for many years and it being a successor to Goldeneye allows for her to work as an alternative to the highly requested James Bond.
@@ianhawke2203 All things I would have loved. Joanna Dark in Melee, holy crap that would be been amazing! Conker and Banjo & Kazooie would make me excited also!
@@ianhawke2203
Well tbh the key reason I see Joanna likely being first is because she had a model planned for Melee until it was scrapped. Still Conker had more history and was much more promoted by Nintendo than Perfect Dark. Regardless of her getting in or not, I still think Conker would’ve been added as well.
@@malhaomalhoa7486 Fair, but like I said, with 007 off the table, she would be a sufficient alternative, given how many votes there were for Bond.
@@ianhawke2203
True. I can definitely see that.
This is definitely well thought out.
I really wish Ayumi was a playable character in Ultimate especially since Smash has a ton of waifus in the game nowadays, and Famicom Detective Club recently got rereleased on the Switch.
Also, wasn't Sonic planned for Melee at one point?
Thank you! And not quite, Yuji Naka directly reached out to Sakurai to request Sonic's inclusion, but it was far too late into the dev to be considered.
@@davidvkimball Hm, I thought so. Because I feel like Sonic being in Melee was too outlandish for a concept, which is why it was the subject of an April Fool's Joke on EGM.
I feel like people didn't even think about Sonic being in Smash until Brawl came out. Thanks for reaching out to me and the clarification though.
@@megamix5403 Actually lots of fans thought about it (whether or not that was caused by the hoaxes or not isn't clear), to the point where Nintendo had to put on their official website for Melee that Sonic and Tails were not unloackable in Melee. That was literally something they wrote out in their Q+A lol.
Really hoping they revisit that concept for the next installment. Ayumi has so much potential as a fighter and we need to have more obscure characters in Smash Bros. Same with Takumaru. To be honest Euden from Dragalia Lost is honestly one of my most wanted characters due to how obscure he and his game are.
I love it. I actually like to imagine that each character would have a special cutscence for beating giga Bowser so like the heroes have like heroic sacrifices and others beat him in a cool way and then the villains well they just do what a villain does in a E rated way.
I also imagine the intro for the game would be extended as well as the song to include all the extra characters ending with Mario launching Giga Bowser off the stage jumping after him charging a fire ball in his hand as it switches between the main cast from smash 64 doing similar poses or sacrificial finishers then switching to master hand, before switching back to Mario as he finally lands the attack on Bowsers face causing screen to fade before lightning up showing the collection room before the TV turns on saying the classic "Super smash Brothers melee!!!!!!!"
Thanks for sharing!
This idea of What ifs for game development would actually be a cool idea for videos for other games
Thanks! If only the modding tools were as fleshed out for other games
As iconic as the Melee voices for Fox and Falco are, I would’ve loved it if they had their Star Fox Adventures voices in the game. I love Star Fox Adventures, so having even a small part of that immortalised inside Melee would’ve been awesome to see
I missed your comment here! Thank you
It's awesome to think that Super Smash Bros. Melee could've been different if it had 6 more months of development.
Thanks!
@@davidvkimballYou're welcome!
Such a good video, love the visual representation
Thanks man
I haven't heard "Eye-wata" said that way for a long, long time. Brought me back to 2005. Wonderful vid :3
Thank you!!
BRAVO, this was amazing! I loved Adventure Mode the most
Thanks man! I used your Kamek render in this video lol.
Only addition I might add would be to the Mushroom Kingdom stage you might add in some requirement to face Wario! Maybe he has a chance of appearing instead of Yoshi's?
That's a good idea. Or a twist where if you end on :02 on Easy or Very Easy difficulty you fight Luigi as normal, but if you end on :02 on Normal or higher difficulty, you face Wario and Peach instead.
Ru his brother
@@davidvkimball After thinking about this, I think there should actually be a stage following Mario/Luigi and Peach, if beaten within 30 seconds (akin to large Kirby) but might be a one minute coin battle with Wario. It would be a perfect fit!
@@KimballDonald Wario Coin battle?! Genius!!
So for Onett, I think that would deserve a section as well, walking through the town of Onnet Fighting some Mother enemies, like the Devil Cars (Which appear in Smash Run later)
And then Fire Emblem you would have a battlefield where you fight through bandits, cultists, and maybe some monsters before facing the Lord's on Castle Seige.
Great idea for the Mother series! Although my thought about Emblem was since it's an unlockable series, I'm not sure it would be included in Adventure Mode.
I know thus channel is mostly about Melee, but I think this would be cool as a series and do this with the rest of the smash games
I hear that pretty often, but I'm not sure I could manage that haha
Now I wanna see competitive melee played with this.
Would be fun to see! Anyone that plays competitive with the Akaneia build would be pretty close!
The rest of the Star Fox crew were supposed to be alts for Fox? "No way! I don't believe it!" Would have been so cool if that idea actually came to fruition!
Right?!
My Version of Melee with full development time would be this
-All the characters work solidly and have little to no broken aspects
-Ganondorf would be given a moveset that represents him in orcarina of time
Nice vid u gaind a new sub! 🙏🏾Godbless form the Netherlands
Thanks so much!!
Including Ayumi sounded like a stretch before watching the video and, after watching it, tbh it still sounds like a stretch. Sakurai didn't really sound like he wanted that.
Fair enough! It probably is a stretch. But it was possible.
My only change to this would be to replace Pichu with Scizor, but there’s probably no characters with a skeleton that Scizor could fit into.
That being said, I loved the video either way.
Thank you!!
lol I LOVE theorizing what a game would look like if it was given more time to bake. Yours is pretty accurate but I was ofc waiting for a special character unlockable character that would teach us how to live and learn
Hahaha. Don't worry I have a video on that too. Thank you!
My 6 months version
Fighters: Dr. Mario will be an alternate skin of Mario, Pichu will be changed to Scizor and Young Link will be removed, Daisy and Wolf will be added for their ease of implementation, Wario, Diddy Kong, King Dedede and Charizard will be added for their popularity and Ayumi Tachibana would also be added on Sakurai's whim.
Changes in the characters that did enter: Donkey Kong will have his Dash Attack from Donkey Kong Country, Link would take out Navi in his taunt, Fox and Falco would have their English voices from Star Fox 64 in the western versions, Ganondorf would have a moveset based on his appearance as the final boss of Ocarina of Time and Bowser will have a new animation when he runs and spits fireballs in Neutral B.
Stages: Poké-Floats and Icicle Mountain will be changed by Sprout Tower and Summit, I would add the Golden Pyramid from Wario Land 4 and Detective Club as stages for Wario and Ayumi and add Besieged Castle and Secret Cave as stages for Marth and Roy and would bring back the 10 stages of 64.
Music: Wario Land Theme rings in Golden Pyramid, The Girl Who Stands Behind rings in Detective Club, Story 5 Meeting in Castle Besiege, Map 1 in Secret Cave, King Dedede's theme rings in both Kirby stages, Star Wolf in Venom, Dark World in Temple, Boy Meets Girl in Onett, Octopus Theme in Flat Zone and Icicle Mountain theme rings in Summit.
Items: I would add the Assistance Capsule along with Lakitu, Rambi, Skull Kid, Metroide, Kamek, Gooey, Slippy Toad, Samurai Goroh, Jeff, Navarre, Dr. Wright, Sukapon, Resetti, Takamaru and Saki Amamiya and I would also add the Deku nut to stun enemies.
Trophies: I would eliminate the bomb trophies from Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, I would also add trophies for Lip from Panel de Pon, Mike Jones from Startropics, Tamagon and Demon from Devil World, Prince of Sable from For the Frogs for Whorm The Bells Tolls and Professor E.Gadd and Ghosts from Luigi's Mansion.
Adventure Mode: Instead of fighting with two Donkey Kings minis, you fight with Donkey and Diddy Kong in Jungle Falls, instead of fighting against giant Kirby you fight against King Dedede in Green Greens, you fight against Wolf in the Asteroid field, you have to reach the flag in Icicle Mountain and then you will fight with the Ice Climbers in Summit, fight against Marth and Roy in Castle Besieged, Wario in the Golden Pyramid, Ayumi Tachibana in Detective Club, instead of an army of Multi-Mans you fight with an army of Mr. Game & Watch and in Final Destination you will fight against Ganondorf, Mewtwo and Bowser.
Your version is great!
I love this community
Same!
Main reason why I would want Ayumi in the game was so that Smash can have a character whose name starts with the letter "a" (excluding skins of course)
^ABSOLUTELY
Here from pushdustin’s RT and wow this video is really well made!
Thank you so much!!
Thanks for the on screen credit!
You're welcome! Love your tracks!
If Melee had 6 more months of development it'd be a good game :)
🤡
@@davidvkimball this was supposed to be bait but i got destroyed instead, how foolish of me...
I really want to see Ayumi as a playable character! She would be a really interesting character and it would bring a more obscure character into Smash Bros!
The timed mine looks like the same mine James Bond used in Goldeneye! Suspicious similarities…
Also I love the Final Smash and Adventure Mode concept stages!
Thank you so much!
@@davidvkimball You're welcome.