Negative rigging BASICS - Full break down of how and why to negative rig a spar, with many tips
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 01. 2023
- We explain the techniques used to rig down a spar pole. Covering best methods and safe protocols to use. We offer up some examples of bad technique, or less efficient ones.
Negative rigging (or square rigging) is very fatiguing and hard on the climber's body. If you remove trees often, this should be a technique you really want to master.
If you find this video useful or know someone that would, please share it with them.
For arborist jobs visit www.ClimbingArboristJobs.com
#climbingarborist #Arborist #TreeWork - Jak na to + styl
Absolutely the best video on rigging on CZcams. Thx for all the details. Great job!! Be safe.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment 😃
Always enjoy your videos have about 2 yrs in the spikes and still have so much to learn. Thanks for all the knowledge
Loving the detailed analyses of various techniques. Definitely fills a void.
Glad you liked it!🤙
I really like this style of training video, well done! So often things happen so fast and it’s good when you’re stopping it and explaining what’s happening. The one thing I was going to say was that when Connor was making the first back cut on the first piece, I think the reason he does. The powerhead down is the reason I do too and that is because it is easier to line up your back cut with your face cut accurately that way. I switch just like he did to power head up once I’ve gotten in a few inches and set my direction of cut where I want it to go
Perfect training video. I think you are very well trained and you do a great job explaining all the steps. Im continuously impressed by your content, probably the most proper well described arborist site Ive found on YT.
I think the big take away for me is to tie that stopper knot at the block so you don’t have to fight the weight of the rope when you tie the piece
Such a great little technique to save a lot of fighting with the rope 🤙
Simple, but genius!
Good job explaining the rope and lanyard positioning. I started out doing it wrong with it below but was taught to do it the right way later on. I've never heard it explained so well as to why you should have it over the rigging. I've done a lot of negative rigging but I still watch these videos.
Thanks for the comment Aaron, glad you enjoyed the video . Please share it with any colleagues you think will find it helpful.
Great spar/neg rigging video.
Another excellent video Dan. I started watching the first one, and then it was pulled from view. I will watch this one today. Thank you, Jim H. Portland, Oregon.
Hope you enjoy it Jim 🤙
Excellent tips, love the way you talked that through.
Thanks for posting this video. Lots of great tips. 👍🏼 Climb high. Be safe.
Thanks 🤙
Good tips....the only thing I like to do is keep the distance between my rigging block and half hitch as small as possible to reduce the travel distance when the piece comes off, thus decreasing shock load on the rigging system.
Good stuff! 🤙
That doesn't change the travel distance it stays the same.
@@garrettoetken8718 ok put the block 10 feet down from you cut and tell me if you notice any difference.
Big difference the more free fall in the negative rigging set up the greater the force into the system. Always keep the bottom half hitch as close to the face cut as safely possible. Also make sure the least amount of slack in ring or block sling.
Very good detail. Thank you.
Great video! The only improvement I could suggest would be adding tags for each major point so people can find them when they revisit the video.
Thanks for the comment. We will add tags to the video for ease of finding each point
@@ClimbingArborist still no tags
Thank you Dan!!! There are so many small details in this video that have a huge impact on the job. A lot of the things mentioned are not pointed out in other people's videos. Ex: the power zone, running the bar forward, and placement of the rigging block/portawrap to prevent rope damage. I wish I could've seen your videos earlier in my career. Please keep making more videos like this. Thanks again man!
Awesome video I really appreciate it iv production felled and climbed and bombed things out and iv done a little rigging doing this full time now learning about rigging on the go very well explained thanks
Glad it helped! 👍
Hi Dan
Thanks for posting another excellent video!
🤙
Thank you friend. You are make the world better with your work. cheers
Wow, thank you 😄
Great video and very complete. Lots of useful tips
Glad you enjoyed it 🤙
I learned some good stuff here--thanks!
Examples: don't place porta--wrap directly under the rigging block, also the cow hitch
I'm a new climber.
🙏
Superb educational video, thanks.
These tips are useful. I enjoy this video. Thanks for your sharing.
So glad you found the video helpful 🤙
Problem with having pol belt and life line above rigging sling is that if it’s a skinny part of the trunk and you get flung around due to a mistake or whatever from guy on rope you can get flung off and over the top of the trunk as your really close to your cut,I always go one above sling and one below sling,about a 1/2 foot below sling as iv never had a sling slide down on a choke off specially if you take 2 wraps around before choking off,the slight amount it does travel down dosnt seem to interfere with second pole strap
Great instructional video as always
🙏
Excellent video Dan
Thanks 🙏
Thanks for the vid Dan! 🙃
You bet! 🤙
Very helpful. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Glad it was helpful! 👍
Good videos man thanks
Side cuts are very important. I've done this after the base cut & b4 the back cut & have had great success. I like the negative rigging with a port-a-wrap @ the bottom. I've had many when dealing with forked branches that I tie another rigging line @ the fork then I make a few extra swipes with my Japanese hand saw to get the desired hinge. Then I go to the ground & hook that rigging line to my Maasdam rope puller. The bridge snaps & the forked branch that's about 15 feet long comes down right where I need it to be. I'm working on dead trees & for 3 years I haven't hit any fencelines that r in jeopardy. Trying to rush things just causes more damage & can lead to alot of risk & extra work.
👍
Dan like your videos big fan of your page have learned alot from your videos
Awesome 👍
Thank you man!
👌
Great video! Thank you!!!
Awesome! Glad you liked it! 🤙
Awesome stuff bud love these videos great for people to learn from. I typically use blocks with a cow hitch I'm not a fan of rings for negative rigging but that's what I prefer. I think the Porta wrap on the right side would of helped better less rubbing on the trunk less likely to get hit by the piece. Negative rigging beats up on gear no matter what we do. Not bashing how people do anything but the space between the block and marl is a little much for how I would have done it but I also don't like how some of our hands run a wrap so less shock load the better for me. Hands down tho prob one of the best explanations of how to negative rig I've seen keep up the content bud it's good stuff
Thanks for your comments buddy 👍
Great very interesting points👍
Thanks 👍
Complimenti per il super video
🙏
Good video!!
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Wow thank you for this
No problem 🤙
I appreciate the insight and consideration in negative rigging. It gave me some things to think about to improve my system. I'm curious why not use a Humboldt cut when blocking them down? I wondered if that style of cut would of helped with the third short block from just resting once it was cut. Anyways thanks for the video.
i like the to use the top of the bar when making the back cut as it pushes me backwards ans braces me more in to my lanyard
Every time I’ve ever had to do this the slam of the pole hitting the trunk always freaked me out. I’ve had 2 slip out of the rig and thankfully didn’t damage anything but is incredibly scary in the moment.
It would be really nice to have some input for the groundsman as well. Providing a soft catch on smaller material is very easy to do. However, I found it difficult when working with the port-a-wrap taking large pieces similar to what you are showing in this video. My employer has always been a tree climber and actually didn't have very good input as to how to determine the number of wraps and how to let it run with the larger pieces. Perhaps it was the rope diameter in combination with the port-a-wrap we used. Maybe I was just afraid to provide enough slack when managing such large pieces. It is a topic I have found extremely little information on so far. Anyways thanks for all the good content.
It’s extremely hard to know , and even more so to teach someone how to have the correct amount of wraps so a piece runs nicely. It comes with experience throughout the career. And experience throughout a specific day as you work from the top down, you learn with each piece of that very tree
I think I saw this one last week, and it was excellent, too. Some day, a discussion of options for descending the spar would be helpful. Is the most efficient strategy to simply spike down with only the lanyard, or do you leave a long end on the climbing line to allow you to flip it off the top after you're at the next station? For the last length, do you switch to a double rope technique with a friction saver, to allow you to retrieve the climbing rope before dropping the final piece?
This is a tweaked version of the video we uploaded last week. Thanks for watching as always .
Great video, not sure what your thoughts are on this. Something I've done is facecut first, THEN setup the rigging block/rings and tie on the piece at the same time. Thoughts on this are, less chance/no chance to cut the rigging sling and then being able to set the sling as close to the facecut as practical, still maintaining a hands width from the cut for lanyard. (Lifeline tie in point below rigging sling). Also turning the saw off between facecut/tying on and then communicating the piece to be rigged and then making the back cut, can help for no helmet communications and higher distances.
The biggest downside to doing the face cut first even before tying on the block, is that you have to then have the block and rope on your harness. If you are using a heavy block and a thick rope this equipment weighs a lot and puts a lot of strain on the climbers back, knees etc…
Great video again, thanks!
Just wondering if you have some good suggestions for techniques to help manage the situation when the trunk starts getting thick (say ~30" diameter), so only shorter pieces of trunk can be rigged then.. I have snapped an eye spice before on a 1" thick rope on the pulley block from overloading it! (Sometimes it's not possible to let it run far first, which would reduce the shock load, eg over a house etc) But cutting shorter pieces then has more chance of the rope coming off them, even when rope notches are cut in... Any ideas to help?!
You have to get creative. Sometimes that means cutting notches in the wood for the rope to go into ensuring it can’t slip up or down.
I like to keep at least one of my tie in's below the rigging sling just in case there's a hard catch and you end up taking a ride. No chance of the rope popping up off the top of the spar. Great tips Dan! We have a training coming up next week and I'm going to practice some of these to keep working on getting more efficient. I think overall I tend to not cut deep enough and also leave too much hinge making it all harder on myself. One question, what are your thoughts on tying the log on higher up? I've seen other demos saying that it does not make a difference in drop distance. However that's not how I learned it starting out and I'm not convinced without seeing some live full size demo's. Great video and thank you for all the tips!
Thank you
👍
My only adition to this would be to have the block/pulley/rings at a 90 degree offset to the directional cut. This serves 2 purposes, it reduces the risk of the lump hitting and pinching the rope but most importantly, it aids to take up the slack and makes the log glance off the trunk instead of falling straight against it basically turning the vertical movement into a lateral movement which in turn also reduces the negative load in my opinion. Its always been much smoother for me with the offset pulley to directional cut
That is one of the points discussed in the video
@@ClimbingArborist apologies, I must have missed that bit, just looking at the footage, most of the lumps seemed to fall directly over the block
@@GCtreesno, he draws arrows that show the correct offset
Sometimes a vertical speedline is better than negative rigging.....usually it's better to use a vertical speed than negative rigging
That is a very over exaggerated statement, maybe you could say ridiculous! Vertical speed line is a great technique if you don't mind a creator in the ground and if you are on a bank and don't want the logs to roll away. But people negative rig because there are things at the base of the tree that can't be damaged. Vertical speed line doesn't prevent damage at the base of the tree.
@Climbing Arborist I didn't mean any disrespect brother, I was mostly implying that the chunk a lot of times will hit the trunk which rigging is between.....a severed line or smashed block is also a real thing. Just saying there are other ways and if you implying certain methods then craters are your last concern. You can always use the brush pilled together to catch the chuncks or tires work amazing also. There is a tire mat you can make which is pretty easy to manipulate with a skid steer. Climb safe and safe climbs, much love. HCB4LIFE
@@treetramp7249 No disrespect taken. The reason for making any of these kind of videos is to show how to execute a specific technique safely and efficiently. It is not about what other way a job could be done, it is to purely focusing on the various aspects of the technique, the safety concerns, the variations etc... There are so many ways we can remove a tree, but sometimes this might be the only way, so people should be familiar with it.
Good guidance and advice! When you did the slomo of potential damage to the rigging line, I couldn't helping noticing the little puff of "steam" from the rigging rings. Potential heat damage?
Rigging rings add friction which can be a great benefit in certain situations. Whenever you have a lot of force combined with friction it generates heat. This puff of steam you noticed was obviously heat build up from the friction. This would be very unlikely to do any damage to the rope as the heat generated is by the fast moving rope on the rings, so the heat build up is on the rings and less so on the rope.
With the rubbing bowline “newish arborist” you said stopper knot to prevent it coming out. Is that where the Yosemite bowline can be used to either or ? Or would you say it’s just easier for the stopper knot ? Thanks.
Please explain to me why you make the face notch cut with a flat bottom cut. It seems to me that it makes the log kick out way more than it needs to? Wouldn't an angle cut on the bottom of the face cut stop the log being kicked out so then it would just fall straight down the trunk? Less impact, less jarring and earlier tension on the rope for a smother ride? Thanks
Some climbers don't tie in a emergency room to repel if needed, I ve seen it a hundred times expesially when doing crane work.. all professional climbers do this.
I call it positive rigging, people we'll say I'm wrong! but I don't like negativity on my job site 😂🤓
Good way to think
Would a half hitch keeper work for negative rigging instead of a running bowline marl combo?
10 q 4 the great video
👍
Little simple question : even with a half hitch, should you do littles notches for the rope ok the side to help the rope not slide away?
If it is tied correctly with half hitch/marl and running bowline it shouldn’t be required to add notches unless a specific situation requires it. Although if you are in two minds then it will give an added level of grip.
Does the side cuts also help for not having a barber chair happen, should you make them above or below the face cut?
That bit of tree isn't going to barber chair.
It isn't front leaning and it's only a relatively small pieces you're going to rig down.
I've always tied my cow's hitch exactly how Connor does and I've never had any issues. Anyone else tie it this way?
I have a question and it might be a dumb one. Why go through all that trouble rigging up this log that you were going to cut down when you could just drop it to the ground. Is it just a demonstration for a situation where you can’t just drop it to the ground?
That's what I'm thinking to. Most guys avoid this sort of rigging if they can. Lots of stuff can go wrong doing this sort of rigging. It's better to use another tree if you can or to cut it smaller and just drop it.
What's the Name of the Knot you used instad of the Half Hitch ? Tryed to catch the Name but couldn't get it. Greetings from South-West Germany
It’s the ‘Marl’ or ‘Marline’ hitch
I left a rigging ring in a tree for a few months. It seems fine but I don’t know. What are your thoughts?
Rings should be fine. The sling could be compromised due to weathering
Ive gotten used to the idea of using a siberian with a daisy chain instead of a running bowline.. faster amd easier to remove.. i usually stick with a caribeaner tho because why knot?! 😂
Have you ever tried a safebloc for negative rigging or in general?
Sure have, do you have questions or input about it?
What is the name of the metal piece you can wrap at the bottom of the tree . When roping .
Portawrap
@@ClimbingArborist yes I ended up finding that out the same day . I roped all my 20s . But time flys when you hit 40s lmao . Thx u
I've noticed when I've watched experienced climbers on CZcams when they put there face cut in it goes 3/4s of the way back when there logging down. What's the reason for this?
Good job by the way
When felling just stem wood that is straight up and down, cutting over half way means the centre of gravity helps assist and make pushing the piece easier. Don't do this on anything with branches on or weighted in the opposite direction.
@@ClimbingArborist thanks mate
1st!!!
👍
First
👍
@@ClimbingArborist I have done many more trees since this video and have even switched to a better saddle. I have also started using the Hitch climbing system and have retired the Blakes Hitch. Now I have come back to this video after all of these months.
I loving using the top of the bar. I don't use it in big hardwood. Shooting all the sawdust away from the climber is nice at times. But I agree it's not the best practice.
Good for training this site ,
But when is enough space , all time let fall them down , doesn't matter the English Grass ...
Lay over branches to protect the flor
Rigging Stems is all time the most dangerous cause there are tons of weights shortly in action 10 or 30 times more then the weight of the wood 🪵
i do not agree with this dropping a log like this , running a log isnt how rigging should be done , you should be using 16 mil Spectra rope with no stretch so the log only drops in one ft below the cut , hench it does no gather extra forces on the rigging rope , if you dropping a branch or head all the way to the ground fair enough , but this isnt the same with a log , and as you can see in your video its why you take a big shake , one day youll break that rope doing this with a log , young climbers today do this with every rig they do , they are afraid they will get hit by the load when really they should be watching were they are and were the load is going , older climbers knew the forces on rigging ropes and yes we had lowering devices even 30 years ago , ( Don Blairs Hobbs device ) , we knew that lowering large logs just below our feet would only double the weight on the rope hence why we use Spectra with no stretch , 38 year tree climbing teacher here in Australia .
No way Jose, a dynamic catch is always better to reduce impact forces. An exception would be if you risk damaging something dropping a log too low
Excellent presentation. Only one comment, the correct pronunciation of Bowline are UK [ˈbəʊ.lɪn] or US [ˈboʊ.lɪn] not "line". All the best from a Swede :)
Thank you
👍