Stalin's Great Purge - Effects on the Red Army 1936-1938
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- The Great Purge had a massive effect on Soviet Society and the Red Army. This video gives various insights in the numbers, effects and other aspects.
Cover Photo: commons.wikime... (Public Domain)
Military Parade Moscow 1936: Tribune with Stalin, Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik, Voroshilov et al.
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» SOURCES «
Hill, Alexander: The Red Army and the Second World War
Luther, Craig W.H.: Barbarossa Unleashed. The Berman Blitzkrieg through Central Russia to the Gates of Moscow June-December 1941.
Jones, David R.: From Disaster to Recovery: Russia’s Air Forces in the Two World Wars. In: Higham & Harris: Why Air Forces Fail
Harvard Project on the Soviet Social System. Schedule A, Vol. 18, Case 341 (interviewer M.L., type A4). Male, 52, Great Russian, Regular Army. Widener Library, Harvard University.
nrs.harvard.edu...
Harvard Project on the Soviet Social System Online
hcl.harvard.edu...
» CREDITS & SPECIAL THX «
Song: Ethan Meixsell - Demilitarized Zone
#RedArmy,#GreatPurge,#StalinsPurge
Stalin's Great Purge and it's effect on the Red Army with numbers and data. It took 19.5 hours to create this video, so almost 2 hours for every minute.
Support properly sourced Military History on Patreon! Every $ helps: patreon.com/mhv/
That's as bad as a public speech!
Thank you for this video, the numbers are really staggering...
Sometimes my responses seem kinda glib, but then I'm 59 and have read 100's of books on Military history, campaigns, specific battles, biographies etc. I tend to forget how many hours and hours I put in reading and then maybe years later re-reading stuff only to realize half way through i read it 10-15 years before. So just the research alone is time consuming and I really respect your efforts even if I sometimes disagree with your conclusions. Or have something to add....ahem.
I cannot recall who provided the data, but it came from a lecture from the US Army Carlyle series that Glantz participated in. It was a pure throw away stat but the implications were staggering. In 1939-40 there were over 300 major train derailments in the Soviet Union. God only knows what the criteria for "major" would be.... I can think of several proximate causes some interrelated. The "wrecking purges" extended to all levels of Soviet society, including factory managers that failed to make quotas. Imagine the quality control issues that might provide in rail or rail wheel or switchng equipment. Also in the removal of experienced route and station masters and engineers. Now fast forward that into catastrophic wartime conditions in 1941. I have never seen or heard of any stats of RR losses not due to combat but I've gotta think the number was huge, much much higher due to communication breakdowns, conflicting priorities, fog of war etc.
I mention this specifically because I am a fan of Gary Grigsby's War in the East. The game is hugely complex and as in actual warfare mastery of logistics is the key. Playing the 1941-45 Campaign against the AI will usually take months at 4-6 hours 5 days a week. At any rate I, and several others who I chat with all came to the same conclusion. The Soviet RR system was TOO good. Even at the outset. At normal Admin settings it's damn near perfect, with enhanced degree of difficulty (for the German side and everyone plays as the Wermacht, naturlich) it's supernatural in it's ability to reinforce, evacuate, supply etc..all flawlessly.
Of course in actuality it was anything but. The opening campaign and pretty much all of 42 saw Soviet units under supplied, mis-routed etc. Now take a deeper look not just at the commanders purged, but the staff logistics specialists who took one in the back of the neck. Combine that with poor track quality and equipment and lack of trained RR personel and yo've got a recipe for absolute chaos behind the lines. And since the Soviet Union by design depended heavily, almost exclusively on RR's .... BTW the only way to win in War in the East as the Wehrmacht is to shove every allowable production and manpower point into RR reconstruction and be incredibly efficient in trunklines etc.
Didn't mean to get so "sidetracked" (pun intended...LOL) but the purges had far deeper impacts on Soviet military performance than just command decapitation. As always, Regards Art Brogden
Thanks for the great video, and sorry for the terrible comments. I suppose talking about communism is the sweetest perfume for a very special brand of CZcams user...
Perhaps this steps away from the military and into the political, but can we hope for a future video explaining the causes and the Soviet rationale for the purge (and its continuation over such a period of time)?
Hey, my first comment here.) But it may be of some interest to you. On August 25th Russian Defence Ministry declassified a bunch of documents about Battle of Stalingrad. Including detailed account of USSR assault group tactics (field manual).
stalingrad75.mil.ru
Torture produces information. It's not accurate, but you get plenty of it.
Brian Garrow Well people will say anything under extreme pain
Yes, yes, I did it, just tell me what I did! I DID IT! PLEASE STOP! JUST STOP!
+Megaldon300
Not even necessary. The socialist tyranny in many European countries wasn't as savage in terms of torture. Like the Stasi in occupied East-Germany, they didn't really get into torture of extreme physical pain.
But using other forms of torture stuff like isolating people from all human contact, never adressing someone by their name, sleep deprivation, mild malnutrition, exhaustion and endless repeating interrogation, they still were quite brutal and got all sorts of 'information' from their victims.
Now compare that to other socialist countries and it seems pretty civilised. For example about Cambodia I read a report that went sort of "So we hung him upside down in handcuffs for 2 hours, beat with rods every few minutes, then gave him a few spoonfuls of human shit to eat while upside down, after that he felt like talking". The Stasi torture doesn't come close to that, but don't think for one second that makes it 'less bad' or acceptable.
Blah b I wasn't referring specifically to physical torture. Put the human mind under any sort of strain and it will want to make it stop. My point was that if you want to blame someone you use torture if you want accurate information you might want to try something else
take the US camp at gitmo for example which barely ever produces accurate information
All I need to know is that it takes 210 days and that if I don't do it, Trotzky will come back.
Team pls report Stalin for griefing and TK
EndNoble not my comrade!
Yup. Don't call out hackers on RU servers or you'll get the kickban in most cases. :)
They were spies!
You can't ban a griefer if he is an admin
bro needs reverse friendly fire
I don't know if your English pronunciation is getting better or I am getting used to it. Maybe both
yeah, likely both.
Yep, he has improved a lot. Just watch some of the first vids.
Jia Hong Situ
He is also way more confident in his presentation
I get a kick out your accent. It adds a lot of flavor to the videos being that Germany and Austria were protagonists.
His accent is getting better.
>When you shoot more high officers than the command structure allows for
Never forget history or it tends to repeat itself
Your level of detail and passion for getting all of your facts correct seems unmatched on youtube. Seriously, thanks for putting out consistently interesting and informative content!
The Great Purge had crucial effect in the Winter War. Some high ranking officers were shot for recommending flanking, not a strait charge. There were commisars everywhere and they had a lot of power. It took the Red Army more than a month of failure to change their directives. Officers never questioned their orders
Didnt help that that great blubbering idiot Voroshilov was in charge of the operation to begin with.
Some links, please.
Real mystery is how Germans managed to screw thing up and loose the war, if Red army was so fucked up.
Whats worst about Voroshilov is that he had an incredible reputation at the time. People in the west even though he'd be Stalin's successor.
nobody deserves ww2
"Banned for team kill"
-Stalin
Panzer Faust FRIENDLY FIRE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED
*Yezhov
I once read a book that described the effects of the purge on Soviet society. That the person best suited for living there was mediocre in every regard. People who excelled or drew too much attention were at risk of becoming another victim of the system. This drained creativity and innovation from society. I don't know who wrote it it must have been Arthur Koestler or Alexander Solshenitsyn. But I do remember Orwell mentioning it in 1984, when he describes the standard employee in the Ministry of Love:
"He looked round the canteen again. Nearly everyone was ugly, and would still have been ugly even if dressed otherwise than in the uniform blue overalls. On the far side of the room, sitting at a table alone, a small, curiously beetle-like man was drinking a cup of coffee, his little eyes darting suspicious glances from side to side. How easy it was, thought Winston, if you did not look about you, to believe that the physical type set up by the Party as an ideal-tall muscular youths and deep-bosomed maidens, blond-haired, vital, sunburnt, carefree -- existed and even predominated. Actually, so far as he could judge, the majority of people in Airstrip One were small, dark, and ill-favoured. It was curious how that beetle-like type proliferated in the Ministries: little dumpy men, growing stout very early in life, with short legs, swift scuttling movements, and fat inscrutable faces with very small eyes. It was the type that seemed to flourish best under the dominion of the Party. "
Great stuff! I knew the Great Purge deeply damaged the quality of the Russian military but I hadn't realized it was that profound.
The author missed a lot. The army grew significantly at the beginning of the war. He did not indicate the percentage of those who were removed from the army, and also did not completely indicate the real percentage of those who returned.
In percentage terms, the losses were, so to speak, insignificant.
Experience and knowledge do not grow on trees and they take time to fester. It doesn't matter how big the body was expanded if they were killing off the brain cells and creating a tense atmosphere of rivalry, distrust, paranoia, and extreme fear.
Holy hell those numbers hit me like a bag of bricks.
I was expecting a few tens of thousands at most.
Someone actually got hit by a bunch of bricks
How are they doing
Your videos have always been improving over time, but damn, this is a high quality video, esp. the animation and effects.
9:07 Reduced ineffectiveness? So the Purges made the Red Army more effective?
opalen903 Surprisingly, as damaging as the Purge was in the short term, it culled the old guard from the Red Army, allowing less experienced, but more effectively educated strategists to take the forefront during the war. Of course, we can see it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, less experience means more mistakes and therefore casualties, but the Purge can be considered an introductory factor in deciding the course of the Eastern Front because of this, at least in my opinion.
It was a joke, reduced ineffectiveness (like it says in the video) is a double-negative.
Sure, they culled the stodgy old guard, thats why they killed Tukachevsky but kept 'tanks will never replace horses' Budyonny.
@opalen903
Reduced ineffectiveness does = increased effectiveness, it is a double negative. But to me, saying reduced ineffectiveness implies that something that was ineffective (bad) is now much less poorer than it was before. To me, saying increased effectiveness can imply that something that wasn't already bad to begin with got better.
"I reduced the ineffectiveness of my firearm that jams every five shots."
"I increased the effectiveness of my firearm that jams every five thousand shots."
Yes they do mean the same thing, and one is just a double negative. I dunno, I guess I'm so used to hearing that double negative so much I prefer the worse grammar being used in some cases.
They never did replace horses, they displaced them. Also, you can eat a horse in the soviet winters, you cannot eat tank.
A very comprehensive study on a subject somewhat widely known but rarely explained in a perspective of "cause & effect". Just knowing the estimated numbers doesn't really open the large scale picture on the actual effects of a purge on an organization like a multi-million man army until all the side effects are opened and explained. I certainly gained new aspects watching this. Nice work! In Finnish author's Väinö Linna's(a veteran himself) book "The unknown soldier" a lance corporal called Rokka says in summer 1944.. : "This is a different enemy we're facing now than when we started.. 'Ivan' puts steel in the air and keeps coming at us like wolves.."
Very enlightening and thorough, as always, MHV. I had never thought of the effects of the purges on the Soviet air forces. Stalin's purges led to much greater slaughter of many Red Army soldiers during the Winter War against Finland, 1939-40. Stalin's paranoid purges were also responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers in the early days of the war with Germany after Operation Barbarossa had been launched..
Good video as always MHV
thank you!
My troops lost basically all of my organization and I had to declare war on Estonia to get rid of the debuffs.
This is the third video about me that I've seen today. My birthday isn't until December, whats up with these?
Joseph Stalin happy birthday day comrades
We can't forget you! We even made a movie about your death!
Joseph Stalin
I think antifa keeps summoning you!
What you talking about, glorious tovasrich Stalin? Everyday is day to glorify thy name! **sweats cold** Glory to Stalin!
Yo, I think you need to chill my dude.
Really nice animations on this one, you've really out done yourself.
Very good overview of how Soviet politics really F’ed up the Soviet Union’s ability to respond to German aggression. More could be said about the political appointments of incompetent “loyal party members” to leadership positions, the effects of political komissars meddling with military decisions at all levels.
You also touched on the problems of manufacturing and logistics, but much more could be said about this to, as there was a major purge of engineers in the Great Purge as well as earlier purges. Much of the prewar fulfillment of quotas was more or less fraudulent/inflated, and a lot of resources were drained off to the “secondary” economy (the black market).
I saw your Facebook posts about the problems you had with posting this video - so, is the video monetized now?
yeah, although it goes against all information that was put out by CZcams in policy links, interface information and Ian (Forgotten Weapons) chat with support. As explained in a follow-up post.
YET, I don't know how well or bad the ads will be. I had a few videos that had so low ads that it didn't made much of a difference. So, hard to tell.
Military History Visualized it's like CZcams is trying to make life hard for content creators. Either way, hope it works out. This is one of the better channels on this site and I hope to God you can continue doing what you're doing.
well, it my case it has been quite annoying from the start, because I was hit with demonetization right from start (January 2016) see the video below from February with timestamp. Then they introduced manual review (Summer 2016) and all my videos got reviewed, which was great, because all were cleared. So, those were the "happy times", because I never had the "careless days", but then hit the Adcopalypse (April? 2017) and other recent changes that dropped the ad revenue considerably. So, without my Patreons I would have a really hard time now.
czcams.com/video/LB1qPExHQY8/video.htmlm26s
Hi MHV I am upset that you too are being attacked by google. You are producing provocative videos. Your videos make people think. Google does not like either. I hope all the producers of these "alternate view" videos will band together and attack google. The internet was supposed to be a free speech forum. Looks like free speech is free only if you use the correct words.Most people cannot view events in the time they took place. Their judgement of events is based on their current view of the world.Your videos work hard to show events as they were seen by the people creating these events. I think this is your best video. I hope you will make more videos talking about events directly related to this video.
How can you shoot 19 commanders when there were only 15?
they also shot the replacements. 1936: the numbers; 1936-1941: the kills.
Military History Visualized Can you please teach me German?
Other people were promoted... and then they were shot.
Daniel The Scotsman soviet commie space magic
Dedication.
As horrible as the Great Purge is, the fact that Yezhov met his end in the similar fashion always makes me feel better.
Yagoda was executed, Yexhov was executed, Beria was executed.
Hey, I talked to Dr. Hill about your channel once. He is an amazing professor! Good to see you used his book for your research.
cool, what did he say?
I told him it's a good channel and he wanted to know the name of but I could not remember. Today, I emailed him the link so now he does. I enjoy your content. Keep up the good work!
National Spirit: The Great Purge origination reduced by 50%.
Just don't read the comments. There will be no actual discussion, just a bunch of wehraboos arguing with a bunch of commieboos.
Just scroll back up and enjoy the video.
Im cheering for the wehraboos :D ... *grabs popcorn and coke*
The Juice ah OJ you happy about getting released?
Well, of course. I mean, I didn't do it. I just ran away from the police, and wrote a book about how I would've done it.
Well I'm not a fan of both, but I have to admit that realistically I would have prefered being under Hitler than under Staline. Just to feel a little less fear each second of my life.
Your a capiboo probably
Tukhachevsky knew Stalin had a grudge against him for blaming Stalin for 1920 loss of Battle of Warsaw. Tukhachevsky traveled to U.K., France, & Germany in 1936; why didn't he escape? instead of going back to be arrested & killed in 1937.
9:07 you have "reduced ineffectiveness." This is a double negative and suggests the army got better. You want "reduced effectiveness."
Great discussion I always heard about this but thanks for confirming what time geez 😮
It's worth noting that the Great Purge wasn't just directed against old Communist establishment but also against certain nationalities including Germans and Koreans.
The biggest one was this. It's impossible to estimate the final number of victims but it could go as high as 150 thousand to even 200 thousand.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
ThingsWillBeFine
They did not want the embarrassment of losing to us again.
Polish living in the SU were also one of the most targeted group.
What's wrong with purging Germans and Koreans? Why were they in the Red army anyway?
John Connor racism is what's wrong.
A lot of people of korean and german origin lived in Russia. While the Koreans were mainly refugees from Japanese occupied Korea or imported cheap workers for the area around Vladivostok, the Tzar had actually
invited the countrymen of his wife to settle in Russia, as Germans were considered and respected for being efficient and the Tzar used them to populize remote but potentially prolific areas, as the country was still
(and is until today) only thinly populated. I would recommend this wikipedia article if you want to know more about it:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Germany
Sadly, the russian Germans that immigrated in the 1990s are now one of the backbones of the right-wing party AfD, as they fear (badly integrated as they still are) the legal immigrants and refugees (illegal immigrants aren't allowed to work) could take their low qualification jobs. As they are mostly more fluent in russian than german, they also often fall for the propaganda of the russian news that are available in Germany.
The new style is really nice MHV :) Also, thank you for removing the social media graphics during the video. Its not distracting now that theyre at the end.
there were 15... 19 were shot. so that's where darth vader learned his human ressources politics!
I think important aspect of purges that everyone is forgetting is that purges made sure Stalin is irreplaceable and forced Russians to fight to the bitter end rather than replace him in a coup and sue Germans for peace like happened in WW1 to the Tsars
Did mhv production values just get even better or am I fooling myself.
yeah, I spent considerable more time on this, because I thought my overall design was a bit lacking. Although, not sure if I can afford this, because it took 19.5 hours. Luckily, some stuff will be reproducible way faster
I had noticed that oversight of the purge and commented on it. It's truly too big not to mention! :) Thanks for this closer look!
Considering how much Germany lost during Barbarossa, it seems like Russia may have simply rolled them over if the Purge had not happened. Did knowledge of the purge affect the planning of Barbarossa, or would the Germans have invaded around this time regardless?
When it comes to leadership, the purges helped the Soviet Union, as it allowed newer and less important officers, but who were aware of the changes in tactics to be promoted. Names like Zhukov, Timoshenko, Voroshilov etc. might sound familiar. Without their understanding of the potential of the German combined armed tactics(commonly known as Blitzkrieg) the USSR would have suffered perhaps the same fate as France.
The time of Barbarossa was right. If Hitler invaded earlier, his tanks would have faced the terrain which melted snow or spring rains turned into uncrossable mud. A later invasion meant that USSR would have had time to finish their army rebuilding program and even launch an invasion of their own.
If the Great Purge affected the Soviet union in any catastrophic way, that was in the industrial/techonological development sector. USSR would long suffer, even after his death, after many engineers and designers were purged for good, but understandable reasons. For examples, Soviets lost the race to the moon(well, not technically lost since they never planned to send a man there, but rather a robot) because of their head scientist died due to an injury he suffered while in GULAG
Omega Alpha
lol, nope. Because his first replacement was a moron who let 4 cosmonauts die and next man in line *destroying ALL work connected to Korolev* out of pure hate for the man. Including two already BUILT N-1 and miniature Shuttle with 2 tons of cargo load designed for resupply of space station.
Well, indirectly it did. The poor performance of the Soviet military, which was a consequence of the Purge, was shown for the world to see in the Winter War. Something that certainly gave German leadership the confidence that they would win.
Great video series. I like his style of presentation and he keeps everything short and to the point. Promoting "unthreatening mediocrity" is a common trend in business, sports, politics, too. ( To really understand it, check out a piece titled The Hatchet Man's Playbook.) I understand Rheinhard Heydrich was the one provocateur who got the military purges started.
Umm... just to let you know, at around the 9:20 mark, you write "reduced ineffectiveness", which is technically a double negative, you say the right thing and I'd probably do something similar if I was editing, but you might want to address that
This was recommended by TIK, have now subscribed. Like your videos
what is the benefits of not doing the purge?
I know Trotsky comes back
but is that it do you just get Trotsky?
I suppose you get to keep some good military leaders.
Well I'm hotsky for Trotsky. Aside from that though, Trotsky's leader bonus combined with the NVKD primacy focus allows you to stage a coup instantly as long as you have enough infantry equipment and there is enough communist support in the country. This is incredibly useful after Germany is defeated and you are in an uneasy peace with the allies. Basically Stalin makes WW2 easy and is better for multiplayer but Trotsky allows you to expand the comintern after the war without starting WW3.
Just never ever take the purge first focus.
What I learned from this video:
- Stalin didn't care about loyalty; he only wanted people to shut up and follow orders. He didn't want anyone outspoken in the party, even if it was for him. Anyone who stuck their neck out was done. "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".
Which Books do you suggest for understanding the eastern front properly and in-depth and also about the various tanks and their information.Btw i have read Storm of War by Andrew Roberts
This Is why you never let politics dictate your military.
I love how this video barely has anything to do with communism from a political pov yet people are still arguing about it in the comments for some reason
Corn Marketman the Internet strikes again!
Purges have nothing to do with communism? being purged is being excluded from the communist party. Pretty relevant.
Carbon 12 Yes but the video is not discussing weather communism works or not, purges were not invented by Marx and didn't only happen in the USSR (of course not in such high numbers)
I've not seen many comments arguing whether communism works or not, but if it had a part to play in these purges, and how much weight that has on the value of communism as a system, that it so easily permits such atrocities.
Carbon 12 Those comments were probably buried by the ones that were actually discussing the video. Don't get me wrong, I like to discuss politics, but comments like "xd and they say that wasn't real communism" aren't really worth discussing
Do you think the purges Putin is instigating right now are similar enough to compare to the Great Purge of Stalin?
(I know it's on a smaller scale but are the elements still there?)
Reduced ineffectiveness, now thats a meme.
Well done, guys. Solid and concise.
Translate this video into Russian and you'll get 1 mln clicks more in a day. And probably as many dislikes :-)
Now on a serious note, just some comments.
1. Please note that Alexander Hill's numbers (and of many other authors) should be taken with a grain of salt. NKVD(GPU/MGB/KGB) statistics were not as accurate as many historians assume. There were huge discrepancies in various reports in 1930-1950s on number of executions, convictions, GULAG population, etc.
2. You made very good point on one particular effect which is usually omitted in similar reviews: deficit of trainers. Impact of that deficit was felt until end of WWII. And not just in military ranks, but throughout the system as transportation, production, designing institutes, etc.
3. One of the "unique" features of end 1930s purge was that nobody could feel safe. Staunch supporters of the regime were imprisoned and killed along with former "whites", "kulaks", etc. Loyalty was not a guarantee of safety any longer.
4. Regarding effects on morale. Certainly, not just officers were impacted. Soldiers who grew up in villages during collectivisation and then witnessed another wave of purges - how strong was their will to defend the regime? Not a rhetoric question, but one which is a key for understanding of why so many prefer to surrender - not just in 1941 but up to spring of 1945.
5. Hill suggested that purges continued in the first months of the war. Actually, they continued through all the war. Over 900 thousand court martialled with over 150 thousand shot.
Once again, well done and thanks for your work.
@ Literally every comment that makes fun of "That isn't real Communism though!"
1st point:
Communism has never been tried because it's impossible to impose it. It is not because of "human nature". Humans can be conditioned which means, as evidenced by Skinner Box experiments and, for a human example, North Korea. Communism is impossible to "impose" because it is simply a method of analysis in the world. Communism, as defined by ACTUAL COMMUNISTS (not college undergrads and random CZcams commenters), is quoted as being "The state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence"
Source - The German Ideology
www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01a.htm
2nd point:
There are a hundred different tendencies, from the top left to the bottom left of the political spectrum, of communism. Don't be surprised if one communist calls the USSR communist while another calls it a capitalist state. This is because we have many different flavors of communism. You wouldn't hold a right-libertarian definition of right-wing to the same standards of a fascist.
Here is the simplified chart of a few types of Communism: i.imgur.com/vZTnWoJ.png
This comment should be more appreciated.
I'm a little sleppy so sorry if I miss something.
That's the point sargent. Kinda. At least for me, as there are "many different ways of communism" when a communist variant state eventually fails some people say "That wasn't real communism, the real communism is the one variant I agree with" and we make fun of that people.
Besides if it used mistakenly to criticize communism as a whole is anyway just more of a stupid meme now really "duh duh "but that wasn't real communism"" is not really attempting to be the most serious and profeccional way to criticize communism It's just to laugh at their red faces.
I 100% agree with you on the point: " but that wasn't really communism is not really attempting to be the most serious and professional way to criticize communism". As a person who mostly supports the communist process, I can say there are legitimate concerns out there about this process. What is very alarming is how many anti-communists actually believe that making fun of "that wasn't real communism" is an actual critique of a movement dozens of the best political scientists, economists, and philosophers of the 19th and 20th centuries have spent their lives on.
My point is that if anyone did more than a Wikipedia-level look into Communism, they'd see that it is not a set of ideas to be established. It is the movement which abolishes the present state of things (focused mostly on abolishing wage-labor, capital, and the idea of private property [not personal]). The result of this movement aims to be a classless, stateless society. This makes "communist state" an oxymoron. Think of communism as a verb rather than a noun, it is a process - the end result being the eliminating of the generalized commodity form (capitalism).
Nowhere in any of Marx's writings did he write, "Starve the farmers and then purge your officers". Just like a gun can be used for violence or for stopping violence, communism has been used, historically, as an authoritarian's tool. This tool came with the "historical necessity" required to do these horrible things. (ex. Yes, we may be starving our people BUT we have to so that in a hundred years we will be in utopia)
The use of communism in the 20th century was surprisingly comparable to the Catholic church before the reformation. Very few people were able to read in Latin and so the people had to listen to the clergy's interpretation of the Bible and other religious texts. The idea of utopia (heaven), was dangled in front the people and they were told that it could be yours so long as you buy one of these indulgences, be submissive to our authority, don't question it, and so on...
So called "opportunists" such as Stalin and Mao acted like these preachers, using very inaccessible books (would take months of reading to get a good idea of the communist movement), to effectively oppress their people better than any capitalist-based dictatorship could. This is thanks to communism's "historical necessity" (which is also found is fascism). --note: historically necessity isn't inherently bad, but is a tool which can be easily abused
This may seem like an attack on Communism, but remember, communism is not any state, but a process (movement). This is an attack on authoritarians who used communism as the backdrop of their tyranny.
Relevant Meme: i.imgur.com/7YWX8oA.png
-I've never commented on CZcams so seriously before, was curious what it's like
Stalin and Mao were Marxist-Leninists. Marxist-Leninists believe in a "vanguard party" to guide the state to communism. Communism cannot begin in this way, or what you end up with is essentially a dictatorship. Communists must instead, rise up in a fashion more like the Paris Commune. In this fashion, the people rose up as a group, instead of standing behind a single party or figure.
It's also true that central planning isn't an efficient system of allocation, this should not be the goal of communism. However, it is important to see the misallocation that happens all the time in private market economies.
Firstly, the price of goods is determined by perceived demand and perceived supply. The consequence of this is that many businesses (especially grocery and fast food) literally throw away their commodity to raise the price of what they're selling.
Second, the natural tendency of capitalism is to pool more and more resources into a smaller and smaller group of people. Monopolies are one side of this, but not the whole story. We see a smaller and smaller group of people having ownership of multiple homes, especially after 2008. Now that this smaller group of people control more and more of the housing market, it becomes less competitive and easier for them to price gouge us on rent. People have a hard time paying for this, as a result, we see 4 empty homes for every 1 homeless in the United States. I know many people who have to work multiple jobs (60 - 80 hours) just to support their expenses. With high housing prices, most of us are locked out of getting our own property, outside of living deep in a rural land where there are little to no jobs and negative, if not stagnant, economic growth. (major reason why we see great support for Trump in 2016 election).
I'll take a look at "why nations fall", it's added to my list.
-A quick note on welfare: The democratic socialist welfare states in the 20th century were amazing. If I had to choose between communism and them, I would pick them in a heartbeat. However, the problem with them is that they aren't sustainable. They relied on the extreme growth of production leading up to and rebuilding after World War 2 to create this extra capital that could then be redistributed. We, at least in the United States, are having more problems than ever now with our welfare programs and a sad amount of people want to see them all gone.
It is true that you will have a very hard time starving to death in our developed countries. Historically, outside of famine and the borders of Marxist-Lenninst countries: food has been very accessible (see Rome's Bread and Circus policy). The problem with capitalism is not its denial of basic goods to the people, but rather it's antagonisms and the problems it cannot solve.
First, the antagonisms. The number one problem the first communists had with capitalism was the stolen surplus value. You worked for an hour in the factory to create $80 worth of goods. You were paid $7 an hour (to make it generous), the raw resources cost $30 to harvest and get to you. It cost $15 to get them from the factory to a shop where someone who is paid $8 an hour sells it. Where did the other $20 go? Hopefully to the growth of the company (which is a problem in itself: "growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell"). However, we end up seeing many of the management being paid disproportionally for their work. Ex. did the CEO work 450 times harder than the factory worker? This problem is far more extreme in 3rd world countries than our 1st world countries (China, India, Bangladesh). However, as these countries with billions of people grow and surpass our economic power, don't be so surprised if our situation starts to slowly reverse. Another antagonism was the perceived supply and demand. There are many more antagonisms out there but I don't want to get too deep, it would take too long.
Secondly, the problems capitalism cannot solve. The most visible problem that most people are seeing is the rise of automation. We have people who are actively working on machines that will replace them. As we hit great automation thresholds (self-driving trucks, cheap ordering kiosks for fast food, AI that can analyze data better than any accountant, lawyer, or statistician) we will see millions of people unemployed in short periods of time, with no job for them (lowering the wages of everyone). Another problem is biogenetics, we right now have the technology to modify genes (CRISPR). It is not just possible, but a fact, that by 30 or so years from now we will be able to modify the genes of unborn children, and maybe even ourselves. Right now the rich are rich 99% of the time from their inherited capital, not from any actual biological supremacy (as social Darwinists believe). With biogenetic editing locked off by high prices, the elite may be able to secure actual biological supremacy, securing their family's position of wealth indefinitely. Of course, we also have the environmental problems that capitalism has failed to solve for the past 200 years (some scientists knew about possible climate change since the industrial revolution). Again, this is just a few problems that capitalism to solve. If I wanted to get to all of them then I'd need to write a book.
In summary, the problem with capitalism is not people starving. Capitalism is great at creating a route to survival. The problem is how this route to survival requires you to give more labor than you receive labor. As a result, many people need to work multiple jobs, jumping from job to job in order to follow their route to survival. Life isn't naturally easy, but it doesn't have to be so hard either.
I hope you're living a better quality of life now. We have to remember that we're all on the side of humanity here.
Ari Unfortunately the people your comment is in response to are morons who can only parrot phrases they've heard elsewhere and can't think critically on a subject
I was reading about this and was really amazed by just how ridiculous it was. Trials without representation, accusations without proof, people who had shot their predecessors being shot by their successors. It's hard to imagine that insanity like that happened multiple times.
and contrary to Monty python they didn't get a firing squad the NKVD usually put a pistol to the back of the head
only 2% of people even remotely have the chance of being able to shoot someone in the face whilst they beg for their lives :3 that is why it is the back of the head.
or sumpthing like that
I love the high quality animated presentations of your videos
There's no party like the Communist Party! Party hard or gulag for you, comrade!
You did a great job on this video as always.
“You are wrong to tie the fate of your country to countries which are old and finished, such as France and Britain. We ought to turn towards new Germany… Germany will assume the leading position on the continent of Europe”
-Marshall Tukhachevsky
Not a word about why the purges happened? Trotsky, Bukharin, Zinoviev?
Read the title please.
I did.
+
The purges may have been bad for the USSR, the Soviet military, and the Soviet people, they were probably good for Stalin since he stayed in power until his death... so they did what they were intended to do. My guess is if Stalin had it to do over again he would still do it.
Stalin did nothing wrong.
The Kulaks deserved it.
Hotel?
Gulag.
Stenrod *snapping*
Killing and Deporting Kulaks I can too deny it.
B-but my family's three thousand acre farm was STOLEN by the Bolsheviks!!!@ They even took all my ponies!!! All we did was burn out fields and kill our livestock!
I like the new style with the book pic in the background
USSR wasn't real communism comrade, I swear
Da gomrade! Also where's the food gone?
and most important: People started drinking alcohol because of stalin or purge or whatever, *not* because of communism!
Communism had actually ended alcoholism by then!
the soviet union was a state, a communist state is an oxymoron. in communism there are no states.
so obviously by simple logic the soviet union never achieved communism.
Get back in the bread line
I live in 21st century UK, not depression era USA
nice banter though
9:10 "Reduced _In_effectiveness" Sounds like they have become *more* effective! :D
As a russian girls said to me: "Without Stalin, we havent suffered so much. But without Stalin, we wouldnt have won".
Which shows the alarming way that Stalin has be rehabilitated under Putin.
Sad to see some of the Russian people like this girl buy into absolute bullshit propaganda
My understanding of this - is that he is given credit for the degree of industrialization of the USSR before the war. I don't know if it's true - but - that is my understanding of what they are talking about when they say that.
.
Stalin got lucky,despite his incompetency,.
@@BobSmith-dk8nw Well, she pointed out thar 1) without industrialization the East wouldnt had survived, and 2) no democracy could have sustained losses so high. Rehabilitation, no doubt, but those arguments seem sound.
Tukachevsky was apparently a talented tactician but the evidence suggests that he was indeed guilty. If there had been no purge the Red Army would definitely been defeated. Countries like France that failed to purge were easily over-run
There are few things more painfully stupid to hear than "The Soviet Union wasn't REEAAAALL Communism!"
Sullivan Nix, nope, its wasnt. It was just a nother one party dictaturship with a red coat. Nothing more, nothing less. Iam not sure if humans are cappable for real communism. Its a political and idelogical extrem and we humans can only keep up for so long with extrems. Its like good and evil. Nobody is 100% either. With our species only grads are possible. Thats why a lawfull republic with the people as its souvereing is the best form of government and will be.
Almost as annoying as lost cause revisionists
50043211 it was still socialist...
Daniel Allan No communist nation ever was facisct. They may have had totalitarian but if they actually had been fascist their nations wouldn't become such shitholes, italy and germany had great economy before ww2 and living standards where higher than most capitalist nations.
You know what is more stupid to hear?
Someone saying that USSR was real Communism and do you know why?
Because even the very name of the country says what it was and you use it.
USSR stands for : Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which means that USSR was Socialist not Communist.
No, i don't think so. The purge indeed has a effect on Red Army. The main reason of the initial defeat is mainly because the Red Army has tripled its size in 1-2 years before Barbarossa, thus the number of officers are simply not enough.
@Yinran Zhang The author is not interested, it is necessary to show terrible figures, so that everyone screeched in horror at what bad Stalin.
Never realised how many high ranking officers was executed in 37-38'. I knew that the purges where brutal in both number and on experience (my great grand father who was a Jewish German Engineer, was arrested in 38' and never returned. My mother while studying in College found his name on list of executed people).
Also, ironically enough, people who conducted the executions in USSR where them selves a target on the purge it self. They often got accused for "misuse of power" (as one can figure out, absolutely useless term for Stalin and his acolytes ).
A very important book on the great purge is Robert Conquest's book. He is a famous author on the subject. May even be still alive but an older man.
Glory to arstotzka!
The video is interesting but it doesnt adress the legimitacy of reasoning behind the purges, and the long term effects, which both are quite interesting in my opinion and not so one sided.
Before 301 club!!! Anybody remember that? xD
Robert Li Woo Under 301 Club!
Robert Li I do
Robert Li Pepperidge Farm Remembers !
Excellent piece. Truly enjoyed it.
1:03 The life expectancy of the GULag system was similar to the western prision systems (Werth, Getty, Zemskov, "table of imprisionments in USSR", American Historical Review, based on declasified data).
1:22 Total data for people prosecuted for "counterrevolutionary activities" or total prosecutions? NKVD was in charge of every arrests, so common crimes were also investigated by NKVD.
1:30 The actual number of executions was about the half of that. In USSR it was common to forgive death penalties so the convict would, instead of being executed, receive a prision penalty (10 years of forced labour).
2:03 The rank of "Marshal of the Soviet Union" was an honorific rank given to some Army Commanders (Komandarma) who had been specially good at their labours or were war heroes. All those 3 (two sentenced to death for the "troskyte plot" affair, an attempted coup in 1937, and the other sentenced for incompetence during the battle of lake Khasan) were replaced by other Komandarma. Also you're not taking into account the promotions of minor officers. In the period 1936-1941 several brigade and divisional commanders were promoted, as an example Georgi Zhúkov was a divisional commander in 1936, promoted to corps commander in 1938 and, after the victory over the Japanese, promoted to army commander in 1940.
3:11 Actually most of the qualified personnel was replaced by qualified personnel, to take the example you give (Tukhachévsky), he was replaced by Timoshenko and later by Zhúkov.
3:58 That was actually a problem, and was more related to the expansion of the Red Army, which went to having 0.5 million active personnel in 1935 to having 3.5 million active personnel in 1941. All those new troops needed trained officers, and at a regimental level they were often leutenants directing companies, for example, or battalions with only half of the theoretical amount of officers required.
7:27 According to declasified doccuments there was also the concern that the Germans could be attempting a coup like the one that had been executed in Spain in 1936.`More since the German secret service had doubled the number of agents in USSR between 1935 and 1937. In my opinion the Germans were planning to make the Soviets distrust between themselves so in case of a war between both countries the Soviet Union would be weakened.
From Western prison system, I'm afraid only Nazi extermination camps were comparably lethal to Gulag system.
Read his sources, he linked them in the description for a reason.
And I wouldn't start debunking his points with "The life expectancy of the GULag system was similar to the western prision systems" your link claims that executions + GULAGs + Exiles by 1940 equal 2 million dead. (and that document only took into count the amount of documented deaths as in singular document per singular death, and lets be honest most of the dead were not properly documented if at all.) I'm willing to bet that amount of people have not died since 1940 in prisons of western countries, AKA 1936-2017 less people have died in western prison systems than 1936-1940 in GULAGs.
The first statement of yours is so wrong that I'm not willing to go through the trouble to read on the rest.
interesting points, but... I have to admit your profile picture suggests some kind of bias and takes away from the credibility of your otherwise insightfull comment.
As someone who tends to think the Soviet Union is excessively demonized, while I'd like to take these claims at face value, could you throw down some sources/links for me?
GULAG could not have the same death rate as any Western prison simply because of far harsher conditions. Europe doesn't have anyplace that is comparable to Siberia. It's very cold and windy there, it snows in the winter, and it is undeveloped.
7:26 -- Every witch hunt is a wonderful opportunity for accusers to eliminate rivals, objects of resentment or jealousy, or people whose elimination would benefit the accuser. Due process is suspended, and people are in a mood to believe any accusation, no matter how absurd.
Quit Stalin and get to the Marx.
Great episode! I wish to see a new one about the soviet military doctrines from the end of the revolution, Frünze, the beginning of the soviet Operational Scale, to the end of WW2.
Best wishes!
lmao 100% of the comments: "Wait til the commies say NOT REAL COMMUNISM!"
0% of the comments: "NOT REAL COMMUNISM"
They tend to stay in their echo chambers discussing the excuses they can use to promote violence and start revolution.
Its a right wing strawman.
It's not a strawman. Commies use this retarded argument literally every single time you confront them with the reality of their failed ideology.
Ludwig Winter Failed huh? Who was the first in space? Ohh that's right the Soviet Union.
wtf I love communism now
And this is why Stalin was the worst thing to happen to the USSR. If Stalin had never come to power the Union would have been a freer and stronger place.
Communism works! :D
It would have surely worked if they'd only killed one more person.
Selpyilgen dоит шоггу сомяаюе ше неаг уоц. Сука ыуат сомяаюе. /$
Aryan Saxena You do know whilst Stalin did this he built a global superpower from a Russian slum in a matter of years. The mass industrialisation and social liberalisation is unmatched anywhere in the world.
The Democratic People's Republic of Nikita 2017 we have peoplw defending stalin...
- How many "people" did Stalin kill?
- Not enough apparently
Guess which direction the EU is heading? Yeah, that's right the Red Army will march again, this time East.
Pepper Spray The majority of EU leaders such as Macron aren't even left wing lol
ImperialVaccum Macron is not a eu leader the leaders in the eu are not democratically elected that's why you have never heard of them
Technically, EU leaders are elected democratically, it's just that they're elected by individuals who were elected by the people in their respective member states. Representation at its best.
I would also argue that using Macron in an argument that is trying to show how right-wing EU politics are is somewhat counterproductive.
They are selected by the government, not elected by parliament, at least in the uk. Sorry to spoil your correction.
Carbon 12 So are more than twice the bureaucrats running domestic institutions such as the NHS. I never hear people spitting Brexit talking points call that into question.
Could you do a video on the Gulag system ? :) Great video as usual , keep up the great work !
Very interesting video. One thing though: I doubt that you can point out alcolism so clear as the reason for the high rate of accidents, since during the purges soldiers would probably not endanger themselves by drinking on duty. I think the low experience is the main reason for the number of accidents. The Soviet pilots were notourisly incompetent in flying their aircraft, due to a lack of proper training. So if you push forward an expansion, while on the same time remove quite a lot of the critical experience out of the army then the accident-rate has to rise. Especially since flying aircraft is not so easy.
I like that you say 'shot'. I appreciate the bluntness.
Thank you so much for going over this topic. I never really could grasp the concept of the Great Purge I usually hear about and why they did it or how it truely effected the Red Army besides a bunch of officers were shot.
One group of officers admitted to the insane accusation that they had conspired to divide up the Soviet Union between Great Britain, Germany and Japan. Being severely tortured (but not above the neck, so that foreign observers of the show trials would not see any obvious evidence) probably had something to do with it.
Thanks...very informative!
Can you please go in depth on the North Africa campaign, why was it so important, logistics, tactics used to beat Erwin rommel
What were the relative effects of purges on the Red Army and Revolutionary France's navy. It seems that the French suffered the greatest decline in effectiveness.
France ? Lost 5/6 of their economies. More than 500k buildings destroyed. 200k elites guillotined.
However quality soon reappeared with officers like Napoleon generation. But on long term disastrous effects. And fleet almost disappeared
Dude. Your accent makes this so much more interesting.
I love your new animation
Seems to be a small error at 9:08: You wrote "Reduced Ineffectiveness", but I suspect that you meant "Reduced Effectiveness" or perhaps "Increased Ineffectiveness".
7:04 the tree containers are not spaced evenly... TRIGGERED. :D Love the new animations tho!
Very interesting and informative!
Great video I wish my channel could have a video as good as this
9:07. Minor point. you probably meant to type "Reduced Effectiveness" or "Increased Ineffectiveness". But as usual, clear and great quality.
Nice graphics. Good info.
Thank you .
I hate to be nit-picky, and I don't want to sound rude, but just for improvement, at 9:06 "Reduced Ineffectiveness" should be "Reduced Effectiveness". Saying "Reduced Ineffectiveness" gives the idea that the Red Army became more effective. Your point still was made clear that the purge had a negative effect on the effectiveness of the Red Army, but I just want to point out the small grammatical errors to help in the future.
I liked the gears turning. Sometimes I found myself just watching them go round rather than listening.
Do a video about mount and blade !
Crazykiller Studios Why??? What does that have to do with modern warfare?
Can you do Winter war next ? And consequences of that war to WW2 ? Thanks in advance.