Off Grid Living: Surviving Winter on Solar power
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2015
- Sustaining your solar power during endless cloudy months can be a challenge. Solar panels are very efficient but the bottom line is, if you live off grid you must be conservative during any cloudy days period! Many people have a misconception that one cannot sustain with panels during the winter. You can, you just need to be conservative about it and think outside the box. We are long over due for more panels since we had a long long cloud filled winter which was very unusual for our area. ONE must prepare for the out-of the ordinary. Although our system is properly fitted for us, this unexpected winter took many off griders by surprise. But regardless we made due and did just fine! Here are some simple tips for all off grid homesteads to consider in saving a little bit of juice during those long cloud cover days!
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Starry Hilder
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Address: 6640 Kaniksu St, Bonners Ferry, ID 83805
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Put your refrigerator on a timer. That's what I do. Turns off at midnight and back on at 7 in the morning. My batteries last much longer.
From what I could see in the video, it looked like the panels against the side of your house had a little snow at the bottom. Any shadows can cause significant power losses.
The effect is less if your panels are on parallel -- the power loss is limited to that one panel. If your panels are in series, the whole string of panels are affected.
I'm guessing that your panels are in series because your mppt controller will accept higher panel voltages.
Running higher voltages let the installer use thinner wire and minimize wire resistance related voltage drop.
Be vigilant about keeping snow off the panels and avoiding shadows on individual panels.
Thanks for taking the time to create and upload the video. It was very interesting.
I agree horrible solar panel placement,and also so little panels....i got 12,53 volts,470w panels,now those,even in these conditions make enough power for lights and a fridge at least,and if there are better conditions,than its endles power,we cant use all of it at all...air conditioners runing on it nonstop,day and night,having a big lithium battery bank too...i wonder how they are doing after 8 years,since this video was posted:)
I have lots of kids and not a lot of time but I'm just drawn to your videos and I'm going back and watching all of them
Hi folks! Planning on moving to the country in a few years ourselves. We're currently living in a city and are miss country life sooo bad. Two things I see that would be a help for you move, elevate and correctly angle your solar array, it's being choked a bit where it is sitting. Second, get a bunch of 2 liter soda bottles with good tight lids, wash inside and out, fill with water, 2/3 to 3/4 of the way full to allow for expansion, freeze and stick in fridge, close door. This works when power goes down in S. Texas due to storms and is a trick that started first with glass bottles --plastic is safer. You need lids that screw on snugly not snap, to avoid accidental leakage. During below freezing spells just set out to freeze. You need to save for more panels and maybe a wind turbine. Lots luck to you Cat
I see your video from Belgium , europe , sorry for ma bad english , and for me your life style is the best way to be happy with the nature around your house and your dog.
my aunt has a beautiful old house her husband built yr.ago and they made there fireplace heat there home up . And also it makes some type of gas that stores into another tank and works off the generator along with regular gas.
I wish I could live the last few years of my life in nature . I hate my life now.
bardara jones
The time to start is now. /gives gentle push
Here is a wand. Make it so. ❕
Thank you for replying! In the back of my mind I knew you provably would have considered it but I never thought you wouldn't have enough wind on top of the hill. I love the straight forward logic in your designs....I am learning!
Why not just freeze some water outside and put the ice in the frig to keep food cold inside the house
GET AC out of the picture!!! Inverters waste power!
First , ditch the AC lights. if your gonna use LED do straight 12 volt or 24 volt DC. Second is to get a propane fridge and freezer that uses DC for needed power. Inverters are horribly inefficient and the more things in your house that don’t need AC power the better. if your gonna charge a cellphone get a 12 or 24 volt to 5volt USB converter. They are far better than loosing energy first from your inverter and then from the transformer in your chargers wall brick.
This is the right way to think. Just look at the caravan scene, systems with 240V/120V never match the efficiency of a 12/24V system. But keep in mind cable gauge to ensure voltage drop is avoided. Lastly, with your fridge outside you can keep it plugged in. If it starts to warm up, it will turn on and keep food from going off. Given how cold it is outside, it wont need to run long to pump the heat out and that is if it even needs to run.
In any case, interesting video. Thanks.
Yes, propane fridge and freezer i think is a good option. If we did have money i would have a digester to make our own gas. Solar and gas tanks will have to do for us, we can't complain here about the sun, plenty here in Australia.
恵勇気 Wow, the amount of knowledge you all have is incredible! Hubby and i are nearly 60 and want to transition to self sufficient life from city to rural and 0 knowledge....ahhh
you are 100% correct. Great comment
(KB7TKU)
Bonnie Flory we don't have electricity but we will try solar , would this work? for fridge etc...
Thank you for sharing the information. You guys rock! God Bless.
I really enjoyed the vid and the scripture and music at the end... very Funky!... :)
Starry Hilder I'd recommend if you have smart phones, to get a battery pack on it. Adds (if conservative) two days extra time when you most need it.
I have been building a smaller solar system for my RV for around 6 years now, I purchased some used panels, they shipped with 1"foam, so I kept the foam and in October I insulated the battery bank & caulked the botttom & sides. It did not help at all, until I put weatherstrip between the top lid and I got my power back! for the winter. 1"on the bottom OK 2"on sides & top, Lumber yard has blue, yellow or Pink foam for houses. 2"or more!
tie the insulation snug around the batteries, good to set up a vent but put fiberglass insul. in it when 20 degrees or colder. This will make your battery bank act as if Summer! Nick Wiese
Very nice place and some really good tips! The panels would perform better if they where up off the ground. In most 60 cell panels there is 3 circuit loops that run from the bottom to the top and back to the bottom of the panel. If that is covered anywhere along that path(snow across the bottom) there will be zero output from that circuit. If you could raise the panels and little it would help keep the bottom out of the snow. Another option would be to build a little rack and put the panels on their side so if you do get snow accumulation along the bottom (side) then you will only lose output from the bottom circuit but still have 2/3rds of the panel producing. Thanks for taking the time to do the video. Every bit of knowledge is helpful!
You go girl. I love your videos. Even though I could never do a quarter of what you do and how you live due to being disabled. But, I love and live it through you! You are so cool!
+Taaheatea 2k Thats awesome..and dont worry..alot of people say that couldnt live like us..or they wish they could..so your not alone! Im glad your here watching and MAY God Bless you!!
Try a windmill generator to make power when the sun isn't available. They run through the same Voltage regulator as your solar system and can charge up the battery bank when the sun isn't available. Good luck. You have a beautiful home and surrounding area! Thanks for sharing.
excellent idea with the fridge placed outside... thank makes all the sense in the world
+George rosado Often its not about having all the electricity in the world..but changing our view of how we consume to. We have learned to think unconventionally. and sing the cold of winter..well..it just makes sense. Even if we had extra panels..i think just using them to run the fridge would be in a sense ...wasteful. we moved ut here to be more simple...more aware...it works..and i like!!
I am not interested in going off grid, but I find your experiences VERY interesting. There are so many things that you have to consider to live off grid and I would never have thought about them.
+JoeisCooking Thank you!1 love sharing..even if one isn't going off the grid!!
very informative! I need to hear the dark side as well being new to solar and wind. thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. God bless you as well.
Awesome video(s) and information for sure.
I think your friends who bought the 12volt fridge are on the right track for energy efficiency, there is a power loss converting solar DC to AC, and the newer fridges are far more efficient!
It sounds like you are using just lead acid car battery types for your bank (sorry new viewer).
For me to do solar right you need to triple overkill it in my opinion (very expensive I know). I'd either go for Lithium or gel cell (marine-large 2Volt) battery storage and have 3 isolated groups of battery banks, so you can run them down completely (full cycles-max life) and fully charge them independently.
Love the house by the way! Thanks for the great videos.
Absolutely love your trophy wall. Reminds me of my Grandfather's farm house. =)
We invested in a chest refrigerator that runs on 12 or 24 volts, we are using 24v. I added a freezer into the mix 3 months ago. My 2 180 watt panels are keeping them going, batteries stay above 26+. My hubby wants me to bring down the 4 panels with a low open end (36 or 39 v) which was sold to me as 24v panels. Come to find out they are like 18 or 19 v panels. I bought 4 new panels to replace them, 280 watts each. Even in the winter I should get about 2 kw a day, yes the REAL foggy day like you had will be only a trickle.
Morningstar said I could plug them into the charger for 12v batteries without harming the charger. So they are moving over to the shed that our son will be using as his home when I finish half of the house.
Living off grid for 12+ yrs and still love it!
+Gail Nielsen Love it.thanks for sharing your setup!!
Starry this was a HUGE help! we are in the planning stages for retiring to Montana, next door to you. I would like to be completely off grid, hubby won't go for it but I want to get him as close as possible. your weather is similar but a bit more harsh than where we are going but I have friends in Priest River so I know the basics. We will be in the Bitterroot Valley. I love the concrete floor also... not sure if I can talk hubs into that tho. Thank you for your honesty as always like most of your viewers we value it.
I can't lie, I was smiling through almost this whole video, not for their misery, but the fact that Starry Hilder, and hopefully the rest of the world can wake up and understand what they actually have when they go home to such amenities. Most American's just don't understand how nice they have it, and if people took a few BASIC science classes you would soon learn. Also, aside from doing without there is something else you can do to help that you didn't touch upon. First off you are converting everything to 120V and then most appliances convert it back. If you have appliances that run off of 12 volt, or 24 volt and you make a second tie into your batteries with a separate system, you don't lose the power of conversion which in MOST cases is at least 40%, 20% for the conversion up, and then another 20% for the conversion back down.
Good thinking with the fridge. Definitely cuts down power consumption in winter. Keep an eye out for critters trying to get your lunch, a lock might help a little bit.
HUGE help!! Thank you both!!
gqhall Yehawww glad we could help! The live and learn method never s stops giving!
Thanks for the great information
excellent vid. gave me a lot of ideas. definitely putting my fridge outside now...
pookiroo Well remember it depends also on your array..and your battery bank. We do it since the fridge we bought is unfortunately a volt user...so for us instead of wasting so much energy during the winter..we can just put it on the porch and do it the old fashion way. I mean why not! However..alot of households with solar who have good fridges that dont use alot of energy..they are able to keep the fridge indoors all year round. So dont be discouraged....it just depends on your own situation!!
Great video!
I found that looking at the big picture, is what led me to make my own solar panels, battery bank, etc. etc.
In the event of a power failure, in the "ON" grid world, If you can't afford to, or there is no one with the knowledge on how solar works...or how to repair them, some would not have power for long.
Learn, its never a waist of time.
+whisperingwinds2u200 How big of a waist is it?
This video is a perfect example of what I meant when I posted on another one of your videos that you aren't really off the grid, you just have a longer wire.
ok thanks.
I just realized how many comments I've posted to you today, I hope you take them as my feedback and not heavy criticism. I've enjoyed your videos and your house is GREAT. I just generally only post when I feel like I have something to add. I do get disappointed when people seem to think they are much more independent than they seem to be (at least from my point of view).
yes sorry..no problem. sometimes i read to many comments that have no relevance to to how i live and i may jump the gun once in awhile. we try to combine some comfort with being self relient...but we certainly dont need a internet connection if it came down to it. thats our luxery...likea radio used to be many moons ago. so yes everybody does things differently with their set up. we still have vehicles and need gas and money for certain things. noone can be 100 independent of the system today...but then again thats not what were trying t do...thanks for your feed back! mr.H
I don't know if anyone already suggested this, but if you moved the freezer and fridge outside during winter perhaps to a protected shed then the energy use would be lower for both units. heat travels from warmer to colder area. also the amount of heat transfer accelerates as the difference in temp rises. so freezer in semi warm pantry has higher heat transfer than freezer in very cold outside shed. the less heat transfer to begin with equals less motor run time to remove heat, equals less electricity used. This might be enough savings in electricity to eliminate the generator. btw great videos
Lots of good info. Me and my hubby and 2 kids are looking at moving to a off grid home in northern Canada. It has solar wind and a generator but I was wondering about winter. Lots of good tips thanks.
A lot of good information here my friend, and since I'm getting ready to do some solar it's all good. Thanks for sharing.
+Massachusetts Prepper Your welcome God Bless!!!!
+Starry Hilder - You could make up for cloudy days by adding more panels and disconnect when summer's around the corner.
Alex A or a nice wind turbine :-)
Try to make use of the wind during those cloudy days to charge your batteries. It'll help to have at least two wind turbines. It works for me without having to worry about cloudy days or nighttime. Keep up the happy living 👍🏻
nice info! thank you. :)
This is good information! Thanks
Glad you found it helpful!!
thank you so much for sharing!
great video...things that u learn from experience are the best way to learn..thanks for the info..lovely place u have.
Stephanie Hodge Thanks so much and yes, the living and learning! Its all part of the experience. And the ability to be ADAPTABLE! That is the key to survival...and the key to peace!
I'm new to your channel. Love the videos! Nice to see someone going all in on the off-grid life.
Your house is beautiful! I'd love to see a floor plan for that.
Kevin Carmical thank you and hopefully soon will do a house tour video!!
Hugh Piggot has great plans for axial flux alternators and windmills for electric generation. I suggest coupling one with the solar to gain from windy days in winter. The alternator can also be coupled with a water wheel in a nearby stream if available.
What a beautiful place
If the ground by you freezes in the winter, find a broken freezer, or weld a box together out of stainless or paint regular steel, this is why a broken large freezer with built in shelves and a working door is so good, and bury it in the ground with a heavy plastic sheet over the area and pile snow on top, called a chill box. Gets cold enough there it will freeze stuff for you even. Your black refrigerator is absorbing heat probably.
Please excuse my bad English, i am french Canadian.I was looking at your vidéo and i realize that in many case people are looking to live free in an already existing world. Trouble is most of these persons don't realize the real off grid life. It is a good suggestion to talk with old persons before starting any off grid project and i mean a 100% off grid project. Trying to trick the card with an half way life will always bring you an half way sense of being to close to your goal. The old persons are the best books available for the old way of living. The main mistake is not having the time they have to do thing, like, taking one day for laundry, cutting block of ice every day to have it for summer time in the freezer box ( ancestor of the fridge ). Each aspect of this kind of living was plan according with time and timelapse of each season. They had no power at all, not only some problem with electricity. During years and years, i had studied that kind of new false freedom and my conclusion is: You can't be in the middle of the truth but you have to choose your real choice and truth about each different way of living. Each and every person is made to adapt to a certain way of living but its come with a price in time and super comfort or the time to enjoy life and being cosy. My grandmother have never complaint about living without electricity, so, if someone want to be off grid ask them how they were living before you make the switch. You will have an in hand documentary and the pros and cons. Biggest mistake is trying to live both way ( 2015 and 1900 ). You will end with a lot of expense for a middle quality of living. Usually human make change for better and that change is very hard to do when you are use to an easy electric way of living. There is a million things to do when you are off grid, so, who will do it? if both are working in town. The old fashion way or off grid life was done with a woman in the house and it was not only for cooking. That decision have to be made before moving and it is a part that most persons will prefer to avoid and think they will see when it come. Easy and simple will come with practice in the real situation, better to learn before than after. That kind of situation could split a couple within a week and bring a lot of tension in your common dream. So in my personnal opinion, you are to far collecting energy from the sun and it cost a lot for a restricted way of living. It will be simply better $$$$ to run a natural gaz or propane power plan. Choose one who will produce 40% more of your needs then you will be able to ENJOY your beautiful place with your friends an a quiet and peaceful mind »»»»» i am sure it was your goals as a couple. Compare the price of your sun collecting system ( who is not enough ) and the price of a super good generator with the gas price. In a long term, life will be normal and no more difference from the town, except peace of mind and there is no price for a dream who is part of your daily life. Yes, life come with a price BUt living without trouble is priceless.God bless you allRoger the Old Ermit from Québec, Canada
Really enjoying your videos. Phone chargers and power strips left in the wall outlets are commonly known as "Phantom power hogs" and can delete battery consumption. Invest in more solar panels, usually 20 panels will provide upto 5.6khz of charging power. A backup generator, propane powered, attached to your off grid system will kick in automatically so you can continue day to day operations. Keep up the good energy with your videos and more folks will be turning on solar and turning off the grid. 400lb Propane tanks are called pigs and are great.
+Thomas Horton yes, great advise! we found out about the phantom hogs right away! planning on adding another 1k in panels soon! thank you for watching and commenting
Very informative video. Thank you for filming it.
Hey Starry great info!!
Thank you!
Good tips. Best
In the UK, All power outlets have their own dedicated switch. It sure would be useful to have something like that over there!
I have a basement "Cold Room", It is mostly below ground level with one small window and insulated from the rest of the house. Temperature in winter doesn't fall below freezing but it is cold. In summer, it remains cool.
I have my deep freezer in there to reduce the amount of electricity needed. I also have an old, but still working, fridge in there. If your fridge is put outside or in a cold room, it could remain plugged in and it would only run when the surrounding temperature is above what the fridge is set on.
My new friend, have you and/or hubby ever thought of turning a chest freezer into a refrigerator? Think about the much heavier insulation in a freezer over a refrigerator. All you have/can do is install an external (metered) thermostat (that will go higher than a freezer specific thermostat) mounted on the wall. Set it at your preferred refrig temp and the motor will need dramatically less power to keep it at that temp. Wife isn't convinced yet. She doesn't like the chest type idea. But for getting rid of any "excess" needs, this would help.
yes..we tryed that making a chest freezer into a fridge. it was hard to keep clean and organized. as much as i use our fridge i felt it wasnr worth all the extra effort. easier to keep it outside in the winter when we are short on solar. and just walk outside and open the door! but yes the chest fridges are very efficient.
Pvwatts is a gov't online graph of the entire USA. It displays the energy per area in terms of solar exposure in a yearly format. It accounts for the entire year and factors cloudy days and total weather. My install was based on 4.7 energy hours per day.
GREAT INFO. Paul & Susan North Georgia
Heating is another source of energy to sustain power for your battery bank. I agree, winter and solar can get a bit expensive; however, that same system can be a bit excessive for spring, summer, and fall months depending on where you live. Living off-grid in the winter, for most, the main source of heat is some form of wood stoves. You can take that energy to charge your battery bank with a generator that is powered from the gases produced for your heating source. Research wood stove gasifier!
I love your videos. Ill post a tip. because one more con on outside refrigerator is bears. In Alaska is they drill a 1 to 2 inch hole in the backs of their fidges, stick a steel pipe in each hole and run it through similar holes in the wall. The outside cold comes in through the pies and keeps it cool. Then in summer they plug the fridge holes and use power to cool it. That way they keep the fridge inside year round.
Patrick Germond love love this idea..thank you so much for sharing! This is what i love about you tube..great ideas!! God Bless you!!
FYI - One Huge drain on power is a water heater.... They will never tell you that either... but it is. You can literally cut your usage in more than half by only running your water heater for a few hours at night and having a water heater blanket on it to keep it hot... It will stay hot almost all day long depending upon how much water you are using...
Keep those panels clear of snow (10:50) and dirt as well! It only needs 1 (one) of the cells in the panel to be shaded and your output from that panel will fall dramatically. Keep 'em clean!
The same thing happens even here in Hawaii. The Hilo side of the Big Island has a lot of days that are rainy and cloudy so a lot of people use generators. You might want to think about getting a couple more solar panels.
I just watched a video by Steve Armstrong about solar panel water heater. He showed a really neat way to heat water during winter by using a stainless steel tube in his wood burning stove. If you did not know of this before...
Great video (I saw the summer one also). Hopefully my comments are helpful and not sound too critical. Here is what I think is going on/issues with your system that I think may help:
1. Underpaneled/too low PV voltage - With the Midnite Solar Classic (I have two and a Kid) I would wire the panels for higher voltage. Right now you have 2KW with a long feeder line to the house...inefficient. During cold/winter months you should be producing enough power to run what you need...however, with a lot of batteries, takes up PV energy to charge with not much else going on. I would design your system to run in the winter months...everything else is gravy. If I had your homestead, I would be running about 4KW+ in panels at a VOC of around 120v in a 48v battery string (about 12 to 16 RE solar batteries).
2. Batteries - More is not always better...but, matching your homestead electrical use is. Panels make the power...not the batteries. However, if you run 24/7 I would def look into keeping the batteries at full charge when the sun goes down...then start the process over again the next day. Limit night time use to just the basics (freezer, a few lights, LED TV, etc-etc).
3. The GOOD stuff (being positive here). LED lighting - bonus points. Monocrystalline panels - not bad. Midnite Solar equipment - excellent. Dedicated DC appliances is your choice...IMO, not worth the additional cost if your system is set up right.
With a few modifications (more panels, higher voltages, right-sizing your battery bank) I think you will not have to run that generator quite as much. Good luck...you are ahead of the game compared to many!
Thank you. God bless.
Combined solar windmill with a high output; AC generator, from Semi trucks. 5,000 watts output, on heavy or light breezy day or night. New is always best but just having it, installing and enjoying worry free energy is awesome(:
+Vernon G Elkins Jr I love your efforts to help others, as you learn yourself. Adding God to the mix was wonderful too(:
So what did you think was gonna happen when fall/winter came around? You have to diversify your energy sources. Wind, solar, generators, also run as many DC appliances and lighting as possible to conserve energy due to inverter inefficiency. Only run AC if you absolutely have to and as little as possible. Use the environment to refrigerate/freeze foods during winter. A root cellar will keep most foods cool enough year round and it also provides proper humidity. It may not be a perfect solution but every watt counts when living off grid.
one thing we found works for us is on our 12 volt system is we run every thing posible 12 volt lights 3.5 watt to 7 watt frige 55 watt. we use the inverter only when it is needed. Motion censors on out side lights it all make for less battery usage
Insulate that chest freezer outside with 2" or thicker foil-faced polyurethane foam board. G**gle: Kingspan, Celotex, etc. The freezer will run a third of the time and stay colder longer in a power problem. Don't forget to leave vents round the outside grid/condenser bits. Insulate to stay warm in winter, cool in summer.
Was that a dead beaver in your freezer..??? lol
@ 8:36
Great video thank you..
For the lights, you should look into getting 12v. The higher the inverter needs to boost the voltage, the more inefficient it is. Also I take it you are using deep cycle batteries? Look into getting Lithium Ions. More expensive up front, but they last many more cycles, and you can discharge them down to around 30%, instead of 50% in deep cycles.
As your budget alows try adding wind generators to your system. Replace that gas generator with deisal then convert it to use bio diesal. Most restaurants will be glad to let you take their used cooking oil which is easily refined into polution free bio diesal. Just a thought.
To save on battery power to charge your cell phone, Ipad or tablet, get your self one of those inexpensive cigarette lighter adapters and connect it to 1 12V battery when you need to charge. Since your not using the inverter when charging such devices you will use a lot less wattage out of your battery banks. Don't forget to disconnect the adapter when not required.
instead of spending extra on having DC in my home I just added more panels and batteries. I've got a 10,000 watt inverter with 40,000 watt surge, 15 batteries, and 1500 watts in panels on line right now. If you look hard enough u out can find good deals on parts and save a lot. the system I'm running currently only cost me 2900 dollars. I have an additional 2700 watts I'm about to install, but as it is we have a large ac fridge, microwave, and can do 3 to 4 loads of laundry a day with a propane dryer. I have to admit I started small and did have a propane fridge, and ran a generator for laundry. looking back though, with what I spent on propane for the fridge, cost of the fridge, and a large generator for laundry, I could have built a larger system than I have now with what it cost, and life would have been easier sooner. In my opinion, make power your first priority when building a off grid lifestyle, it can be done easily for under 4,000. you still have to be aware of what you use, but you can make it work easier than most people think.
Add more insulation to your fridge and freezers. You'll be amazed how much more energy efficient they get. Just make sure you don't insulate the heat exchange (some fridge had them on the side wall).
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that turning off a power strip would stop the trickle draw. I have been unplugging power strips to conserve. Wondering how panel watts of solar panels you have to just be getting 8 watts on cloudy days?
You are a wealth of information. The winters hear are pretty mild in relation to what you are accustom to. I am hoping that the sunlight during those months would still be sufficient to refil the batteries on most days.
Chuck
Thank you..I try to do my best at explaining things. My husband laughs cause he thinks I talk too much!!!
Starry Hilder
Ha Ha didn't you know, all husbands think there wives talk too much. Sorry I just couldn't resist :)
Got rid of all the curly compact flourescent bulbs as we found to be a fire hazard -several melted into the base unit -shutting on and off on their own , enviromentaly toxic containing mercury , and last no where near the 10,000 hours stated on most packages, 4000 at the most . but had a great deal on LED's at about 7.50 per bulb and the government gave an instant rebate at the store of 6.00 each , so we kinda stocked up a bit!
Thank you for the vid and the heads up, but where are you located at? I'm guessing up north in Washington state maybe? or N. Dakota?
Love the videos Starry! My wife and I are moving over to Spokane in a few months for grad school. I'm also in healthcare and would like to end up in the bonner/boundary area. Watching your videos is a great way for me to keep the dream alive while I'm being inundated with school projects and assignments.
On another note, I'm not sure what type of panels you have but Sunpower offers panels that operate on a broader spectrum of light waves. This allows greater charge for overcast/ cloudy days. They are very expensive but it could be an option for you guys in the future. Keep up the good work!
Jeff D Thanks for the input on the solar panels. there are indeed alot of options out there and I think I must have researched myself out of my own brain at one time!! Congrads on grad school..and my favorite field healthcare!! Spokane is a big big city an I must admit I feel like a insane person when im there because there are just to many cars and people!
You need to come up here to Bonner or boundary for sure! Slower pace less cars, less people..more farm animals:)Well keep on watching and keep us posted if you ever get our way! God Bless your endeavors!
You could have the refigirator in the garage or basement, A garage often have medium temperature year around. Or try to invest in a solution so you can have a refrigirator.
You folks have a beautiful house.
You mentioned getting a Trimetric. Magnum makes a good battery monitor kit. I have one with my off grid setup and it works great, Magnum ME-BMK
I suggest to people to convert as much as they can afford to 12v appliances. Marine grade RV stuff is highly efficient. Use a convection cooktop and dump the microwave. If you have an open well. You can store items in the basket and it stays cold all year long.
You just have to think old school. Real world needs over wants.
Claude Rains Good advice but the flip side is..when you set up a off grid home.. the drawback with DC is that you’ll typically end up with dual household wiring systems, because very few people can live with only DC.
Most often, AC appliances are also desired, which means having two sets of wiring (DC and AC), a more expensive option. Usually the wisest choice for a modern, whole-house system is to choose all AC, buy an efficient inverter, use ultra-efficient appliances, and add a bit more energy capacity to the system to cover the inverter losses.
We have Backwoods Solar here ...a very popular supply place where they live the life and talk the talk...they sell both d/c and AC fridges and they say this about DC fridges......."
12/24 VOLT DC refrigerators & chest freezers in our catalog offer energy savings and security, by needing no inverter to function. However the most efficient AC refrigerators and freezers have more powerful compressors and shorter running times. A select few AC units are nearly as efficient as DC units. The AC power Conserv freezer in our catalog, is just as efficient as the DC units..".
IF you choose however to do both.... each DC is much better suited for those few items that need a little power available all the time. Motion sensing outdoor lights, cord-less phones and message machines, alarm system, clock-radio and a doorbell are good examples. Turning those appliances off at night and when the house is vacant to save power just defeats their purpose.
Convection stove top? Not to familiar with this..can you explain the benefit to our viewers?? I know it has to do with magnetic field transfer...but my concern is how much electricity does it use and is it dependent on it? Is so it sounds like again a convention cooktop might not be able to use the DC power? Is this correct??
What system do you have...how big? What applications in your home are you using the DC stuff.. a fridge? How big!!Love to hear more about it since you made some outstanding comments to discuss for everyone!!
I have 3kw array which produces 18kw over a 6hr day. Which is 250 ah. It's more then I need. As I converted almost everything to DC. Water heater gets the dump load. The array works more efficient this less it has to convert to AC. The only draw back is wire sizing to the main service panel cost.
I chose to use marine grade appliances where needed for reliability and efficiency reasons. This left only the convection stove top oven and AC unit to run AC. Which is run off a single 3k watt Samlex converter which is 93% efficient. The cooktop is instant heat. So it's not wasting watts getting to working temp. The oven part uses fans that are very low on watts as well. It cooks faster on less energy. The AC unit is only 550 watts at full load.
The way to figure out all your energy uses is to add up everything in watts. Don't worry about voltage. It's not important till you get high resistance appliances. As that is where you're getting hosed on energy consumption.
It all starts at the array and one reason Sanyo and Kryocea are King. They are multi crystalline panels not mono. Their rated output is real. None of this in perfect conditions fine print stuff. I install low resistance wiring. High end MPPT controllers. The best AGM batteries someone can afford unless they want to caught up $1200.00 a battery for lithium ion.
It also has to be sized right. A conversation I found on how people and contractors don't understand. That I ran across and it's true.
Solar Sizing
It does not matter if the 24 batteries are configured as 24 or 48 volt. Either way each battery will have the exact same amount of charge current. As you stated if configured as 48 volts requires you to make 3 parallel string with 8 batteries in each string. This means the current from the charge controller is divided evenly by 3. If configured as 24 volts you will have 6 parallel strings with 4 batteries in each string which means the current from the controller is divided by 6. Are you with me so far?
OK it is very simple 5th grade math from here. You have a panel wattage of 1410 watts right? (6 panels x 235 watts) If the charge controller is set up for 48 volts, the output current is 1410 watts / 48 bolts = 29.375 amps. OK you have 3 strings with a 48 volt battery setup, so that 29.375 amps is divided by 3 so each string has 29.375 amps / 3 strings = 9.79 amps/sting. That means every battery configured at 48 volts has 9.79 amps charge current. Understand?
OK if configured at 24 volts the current out from the charge controller is 1410 watts / 24 volts = 58.75 amps. With 6 strings of batteries means the current is divided by 6 right. So we have 58.75 amps / 6 strings = 9.79 amps /string.
Now you tell me which number is greater than the other: 9.79 amps/string in the 48 volt configuration, or or 9.79 amps/string in the 24 volt configuration?
Here is the real scary part. Your installer is a moron and only knows enough to be very dangerous. He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries. The minimum charge current to prevent sulfation is C/12 where C = the battery amp hour capacity. Your batteries are 225 AH batteries correct? So C/12 for your batteries is 225 AH / 12 hours = 18.75 amps minimum charge current required. Guess what, no matter if you configure them for 24 or 48 volts you only have 9.79 amps of a C/23 charge current. What this means is you will destroy your batteries and neither your installer or you have a clue why. There is two ways to fix that problem. Either double your panel wattage and configure it for 48 volts, or only use 12 batteries and configured for 24 volts. Which one do you choose.
Last warning. You need to understand fully what I just told you, or else you are going to make a huge mistake. BTW, fire your contractor, he is a moron. Anyone who told you what he did and to use either 3 or 6 parallel battery strings is an idiot. If it were using 1410 watts of panels you would be using a single sting of 12 Trojan L16RE2V batteries @ 24 volts, which is the same capacity you are looking at now, just less expensive and will last longer than your T-105 batteries. But hey it is only money right, your money. Use the batteries your contractor wants will last a year or two at best. My way 5 or 6 years.
Your whole system is mismatched. Nothing is designed to work with each other. What moron came up with this?
With a 1410 watt panel system can only support a 24 volt battery system of 480 AH (C/8) 720 AH (C/12). The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two.
Another thing if designed properly based on a panel wattage of 1410 watts withing the range of battery it can support only gives you around 2.4 Kwh of daily power or about 30-cents of electricity. Taht means based on what you have had recomendation mean with 3 year battery replacement will cost you some $3?Kwh. You can buy it for 10 cents per Kwh. Design it correctly and you can bring that cost down to $1/Kwh over a 10 year life.
Claude Rains I guess i'm confused at some of your observations and comments...you said you would fire our contractor because he never told us to use 3 or 6 parallel battery strings?
Are you sure you are commenting on the right video? We never talked about how our batteries are strung together?
And why would our whole system be mismatched? What gave you that idea? We have a magnum inverter, 2 MPPT charge controllers and 16 L16 Interstate 6 volt batteries. Pretty simple. We have a 2k array, Sunforce panels, 250 watts each.
Also you stated "He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries" Again..I think you watched a different video...we didnt talk about any of this stuff. At all...I guess I gotta chuckle cause I think you got your video comments mixed up??
Maybe you can tell me the video time where we said all of this??
Again you stated ..."The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two. "
sorry...the moron you are talking about isn't on this video!
We have a 2KW array...we dont have 1350 AH batteries..and we have had our batteries for over three years and we're not replacing anything. In fact everyone who comes up here see's how gently used they are and laughs and says our batteries will most likely last 10 plus years!
Anyway..must be wrong video....and besides...if you are going to give a comment that carries any weight and has any validity..you really should not use derogatory remarks against others...it erodes at your own comments and expertise...
God Bless and relook at the video..I think this one is a oohh ohhh..
No I'm saying look at your system and see what's actually going on from the solar panels to the batteries first. As not to many contractors or installers have a clue. It's get the sale and most give out bad information because they really don't know.
A proper system should produce more energy the colder it gets and being cloudy shouldn't cut your output more then 30% as it's not charging off visible light. It's charging from a spectrum the eyes can't see though the cloud cover. As you said you were only getting 6 amps. So something is wrong and if that continues. Your batteries will fail in short order.
I would start at how many watts everything uses. How much you use them everyday and what has to run all the time. This is actually where math can save you money, time and grief.
Claude Rains Could you post a video of your solar system ? I'm always looking for good ideas .
hello again, first I want to say I am really enjoying watching in mass, all of your past videos! Like I have mentioned, we are not yet off grid, but my mind has been on it sooo much that while I am cooking dinner or doing dishes, or laundry I am constantly thinking, how would I do this if I had no power...so SLOWLY i have created a small stock pile of appliances when possible, to use for my convenience and ease of cooking and such. it is sort of sad and funny at the same time how much we are spoiled and lazy about how we do things today, that the old ways seem so difficult, do you know what I mean? something as simple as chopping nuts or grating cheese turns into a "gotta have" machine that costs sooo much money, when all you need is a good knife and a box grater! LOL stuff like that! now, having said that, THANK GOD for the internet and CZcams for help in discovering what is out there that I would not have thought about! so it goes and comes around, lol! =)
avonleanne Well I am so so glad you are finding my hints helpful. What I want to impress upon as you see from my videos, is that everything NEEDs to be addressed, from simple laundry to pantry, to growing food, to chopping wood. And you are right, all those appliances we depend on. I enjoy having les and I feel that I have MORE because of it! I am going to show everyone my new laundry setup to cause GUESS what..my washer died! Go figure! We should have not bought one to begin with. Another live and learn! But now I have a awesome tub with a drain rack and I will be getting a wringer and a scrub board! I love doing laundry by hand..faster and easier! So yes, you are doing everything the right way!! God Bless you!
sounds like a round of new videos for us to watch on doing laundry the "amish" way! LOL...thanks for the encouragement....can you tell I don't have anyone around us that is into self reliant living! no joke, nobody here that I know of is doing this stuff! of course we all kind of keep it to ourselves so I could be WAY wrong! LOL either way, I look forward to more schooling =)
why not use steam turbine?.....lots of fire wood and heat the house same time..
You might want to check into making a wind turbine . looks like your in area where there might also be some streams you could put a water driven turbine in. Spring snow melting could create a source for additional power.
I noticed you said your inverter was running if you left your cell charger plunged in. This might be something to think about is having a 12 volt step down from your 24 volt solar for car chargers or cigarette lighter plugs. About 85% of the items I use from TV's, laptops, DVD players, cell phones all run DC. Look for a box plug or box in the cord, most likely running DC. Your taking 24 volt solar and inverting it to 110 AC back to 12 volt DC is a huge waste of power. I have seen big difference my charge capacity after using this trick of buy passing the inverter and steeping down the power. Hope this tip helps you out, I know I have learn a lot from your videos.
Lol Up here in Alaska we only get 5-6 hours of in winter...so most off-grid Alaskans have a propane conversion for their gas generators. (Under $70 on Amazon) That way you save $$ and have more options. Liking you videos so far :)
i think thise curly bulbs have mercury in them. i heard if u break one in your home the mercury vapor from the bulb is bad news
+mreisma yes they do and yes it is. I prefer LCD bulbs anyway as they have 1/5th again of the power consumption.
EG our lounge room lighting bar went from 4x 50w bulbs to 4x 16w mercury energy savers to now being 4x 5w LED's which throw as much light as the 50w bulbs and more than the energy savers. LED is the future IMHO if you want to reduce energy. We've dropped our power bill over $100 a quarter just from switching most of the lights in the house from 16w energy savers to 5w LEDs and more again by throwing our old clunker portable AC and replacing it with a larger more efficient newer portable AC (for the office area).
+mreisma
Yes mercury is bad for ones health, but:
- it is only in vapor form when those bulbs are hot
- if the bulbs does break when hot that vapor cools and settles into very heavy droplets which will go to the floor
- the amount of mercury per bulb is tiny, you would need to break several of those bulbs daily and inhale all they can offer for years on end to get an effect
Long story short not a good idea to eat CFL bulbs, otherwise harmless. Unless you work in a CFL factory, then demand respirators.
MsSomeonenew, I'm not sure where you got your information from but I am sure it's a lot more serious than that. There's a video on youtube explaining just how much mercury is in our landfills just from those bulbs, it might be eye opening to you.
+MsSomeonenew I disagree strongly with this statement, you might want to do a lot more research because the mercury industry doesn't want you to know the truth. There is so much miss information out there.
sickjohnson : It seems many don't know the truth, from the florescent bulbs, to chemtrails which are infesting the soil, barium and strontium is turning up in antlers, chickens are found to have high mercury..most of us have no idea how topsy turvy the world is..
As a power doubler use mirror to double the low power you get a second sun. Works well.also cut out the middle man buy 12 volt TV and led lights at 12 volts. It works . And the lamps you can get from truck stops ur on the right track with a second sun mirrors aimed at the cells full length mirrors are best kv4li 73
when i was in Korea, all people had shelf boxes out of one window, works well
a lot of the year, also if you know your foods, very little spoilage - old man mike bengyak
have you ever experimented with amorphous panels? (the kind on caculators). I hear they're not very efficient but work fine on dim light so I'm giving those a try (PS: my fridge runs on gas and everything else is low wattage 12V so I dont need that much power)
some refrigerators will shut off when they are too cold. Others refrigerators will stay powered during the cold. So check the manufactures specifications.
+Brett J Thank you for this!!
@{// WTF! //} Electric not gas.
Have you ever thought about building your own cooler (fridge )? You would build a small super insulated room cooled by a small energy efficient window air conditioner mounted through a wall. There is a small controller called the coolbot that tricks the unit into cooling down to 34°. Small vents to the outside could be opened in cold weather to make it more energy efficient when you need it most.
I also wanted to tell you that Sam's Club is selling LED bulbs 3 for $10 right now!
You could add a temperature control outlet to turn that fridge on when in gets warmer, though the control takes precious winter power so you'd have to unplug it in the dead of winter.
I think you both are doing great! Thanks for sharing these tips. One thing I would suggest look into the LED/Fluorescent lights as capable of capturing data from your homestead. Pretty crazy! Love your landscape! Kris in WA
Kris..interesting, you will have to elaborate on this! Im always open to ANY ideas!!
Starry Hilder Info came out in 2011, I think. In a nutshell...the lights are designed to basically monitor what you do, and to control. The LED (and maybe even fluorescent) transmit data and send info to ????? somewhere. The lights flicker at a rate our eye can't detect, and talk to other smart or energy saving devices in our homes. Bush signed the bill in 2007, I think. It was to ban all incandescent bulb by 2014, for energy saving? Research it... there maybe even more info that has come out on it now. Things seem really turned upside down.
Ill google it..thanks!!!
In Ontario Home Depot sells a 10W led bulb, 60W equivalent for $9. Through the public utility there is a $5 dollar coupon. So it only costs $4.
If we were to store food outside during winter, we would have every stray dog & other animal that hangs out in winter rummaging through it.
Why are you running an inverter for your lights? get lights that use your system voltage IE: 24 volt DC LED bulbs.
Get a second inverter...A small efficient inverter just for the comfort stuff like TV and lights.
Re-Think your usage and how you use it.
IMOO
Jim
+Jim j I was thinking the same. I hope they are not going thru an inverter just to run LED lights (lol).
Try keeping the freezer outside plugged in. Most of the energy is lost from being in a heated area, if you keep it in the cold it will need to work less to keep cold
Might be good to plug fridge in but leave it outside in the cool months. It won't use much power at all because average temperature outside is probably pretty close to 4 degrees Celsius or whatever you set it to, so it won't actually come on very often. But at least stuff won't get too warm and spoil. Food might still spoil by freezing of course.
A couple more power saving tips... That cell phone. You should be able to get a car charger for it that will run off 12-24 volts. Then you could arrange a DC connection directly from the batteries. No inverter needed to charge the phone at all once that's hooked up. If your battery bank is 48 volt you would need a small DC-DC converter for the charger, but these are often around 90% efficient or better.
You can cut the energy usage ov a freezer down by having using a time switch to cut power to it for a few hours a day. This will cause a small temperature variation, but not enough for it to come out ov freezing. Best time to turn it off is during periods where you seldom open it. The catch with using a timer is that it will keep the inverter alive, but again you can get 12 volt models that are capable ov switching mains voltages.
For outside use a white refrigerator is better for heat on the outside. Also an all fridge uses way less power. A two door fridge defrosts every 12 hours using a heating element in the wall of the freezer.