Gaming with a Mac Pro 2019? 6600 XT vs 6900 XT vs M1 Max vs Gaming PCs
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2024
- In this video, I try to cover what it's like to game with the Mac Pro 7,1 2019 using modern GPUs. Things are much better for the Mac Pro 2019 since it was released, mostly due to the availability of newer GPUs.
My Patreon:
/ dmug
0:00 - Intro
1:03 - Mac Pros 2019s are easier to acquire
1:39 - Hardware Overview
4:02 - Test bench
4:16: - Installing the GPU is almost straight forward
5:10 - Beware, GPUs are longbois
6:59 - Hardware Requirements Summary
7:32 - Why Mac gaming isn't so great
8:47 - Shadow of the Tomb Raider Benchmarks
10:20 - Windows vs macOS for Mac Gaming
12:25 - Red Dead Redemption Benchmarks
12:48 - Far Cry 6 Benchmarks + vs gaming PCs
15:11 - Lord of the Rings: Shadow of War
15:29 - 3Dmark Benchmarks
16:40 - Emulation in Windows
17:17 - What about the 6600 XT?
18:10 - ML Upscaling
19:19 - Should you get a 2019 Mac Pro?
20:46 - Closing Comments
- Corrections, I think I refer to the 14 inch MacBook Pro as a 24 inch. Derp. 24 core GPU.
I've written an entire upgrade guide on the Mac Pro 2019, which you can check out here.
blog.greggant.com/posts/2021/...
There's so much more that could have been covered. For starters, I could have covered more games that are popular in different genres, especially the PUBG variety that all the kids play. However, never having played these or any online games, I elected to skip them. Also, I'd loved to compare against a 2010 Mac Pro with these same GPUs but I no longer own one and it'd be fantastic to compare a 3080 Ti vs 6900 XT in the Mac Pro 2019.
I realize I committed a cardinal sin of benchmarking, not doing all of them myself but realistically, this is impossible for obvious reasons (time, money). Also, I'm not accounting for driver differences as generally, GPU drivers mature over time, unlocking better performance. When possible, I tried to use the closest and most recent tests.
Obviously, tricked gaming PCs do better, but in my personal opinion, the Mac Pro 2019 does a fine job of gaming. This is my opinion, I'm not a hardcore gamer, nor do I even identify as a gamer myself. People who are gamers certainly will have opinions.
People are often concerned with bottlenecking and its never a hard performance cliff, rather performance realized. As you crank visual fidelity and resolution, the limiting factor tends to be the GPU whereas lower resolutions and lower fidelity tends to be a function of CPU as the limiting factor. For every frame-per-second added, you will end up needing to perform more calculations per second on the CPU side. Ultra high refresh gaming (generally beyond 120 Hz) likely would show a wider gap between the top tier gaming PC and 2019 Mac Pro.
Also, my visual fidelity tests aren't the best. Sorry, I captured them and it wasn't until late reviewing I noticed the bitrate hammered some of the visual fidelity. It's easy to see 1080p vs 4k but harder to see the ML upscaling differences between 1080p vs 1440p. Live and learn, as I didn't think to look for capture quality settings in the AMD software.
Bonus content:
• Mac Benchmarking is te...
Videos you might like by me:
MacBook Pro M1 Max Review by a Mac Pro 2019 owner
czcams.com/users/slicknin...
macOS 13 Ventura and the classic Mac Pro 2010 5,1 and Mac Pro 2013 6,1
• DMUG #6: macOS 13 Ven...
Arcade /NeoGEO Emulation (MAME) on Apple Silicon M1 and Intel x86 Macs
• Arcade & NeoGEO Emulat...
Mac Pro 2010 vs the Oculus Quest 2
• Mac Pro 5,1 2010 vs Th...
6x50 Compatibility:
forums.macrumors.com/threads/...
GPU Lengths:
www.iswitcher.tips/which-grap...
Snazzy Lab's Can You Game on a $6,000 Mac Pro
• Can You Game on a $6,0...
Benchmarks Used
www.tomshardware.com/news/far...
www.techspot.com/article/2339...
www.thefpsreview.com/2022/02/...
www.tomshardware.com/news/amd...
www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...
www.macworld.com/article/6302...
Software/Hardware used to make this video:
Software:
Final Cut Pro, Motion, Pixelmator Pro, Cubase, Ableton, Keynote, AMD Catalyst Capture
Hardware:
Shure SM7b, FocusRite Clarett, Rode Wireless Go, Olympus OM-D EM5, iPhone 12 Pro, DJI Osmo Pocket, Mac Pro 2019 + M1 Max
Music by me. - Věda a technologie
Very informative video. Thanks for putting this together for us to see.
dude Your videos are really well put together.
Thanks, videos like this take forever to put together to get 2800 views 🙃
Awesome video (informative and detailed) 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I'm glad people are still finding this video, as it took a lot of time
Thank-you for sharing this!
Thank you for watching ;)
I had a Titan RTX in my Mac Pro, love my Mac Pro 7,1, Had my 5,1 for 10yrs before i upgraded it to the 7,1
Damn dude, that's a flex just to have it for Windows.
Oh the RTX did boot in OS X too, Little glitchy but it worked a little
something sad about mac gaming is if it supported OGL and vulkan better, it would probably have gotten proton, which with some talented mac devs helping, it would have gone a long way in making macOS gaming alot closer to windows. (or at least close to linux)
Apple natively supporting Vulkan certainly would have gone a very long ways. There are projects like VulkanMK that translate to Metal but with the associated costs and not 100% compatibility.
And it's not just openGL. OpenCL too. Both standards Apple had a hand in. I wish our dude was there with the spray bottle when they decided to screw both of those up.
As an example of how that plays out, the open source "folding at home" massive multi-computer compute cluster, which wisely decided on using OpenCL to access GPU for compute... can not access the GPU on MAC- a standard APPLE created. It took them forever to acklowedge the bug, and a bit longer to say "sorry we can't fix it". What a bunch of clowns.
Nice sample flip! Where can we hear more of your flips? Oh, and great video as always too! Thanks for the knowledge!
I really outta make a secondary channel for my music, here's an old track I made with my friend from an album we recorded together.
vimeo.com/59202755
@@dmug Nice! Would certainly follow your secondary channel, but also a souncloud account! TThanks for sharing ✌🏽
Nice Greg will be posting my video on my 5,1 with RX6800XT, with benchmarks and a couple of games.
Looking forward to seeing how well it does, I need to take my Mac Pro 3,1 out of storage and try sticking a modern gpu in it. I’ll link in this videos description when it’s up.
@@dmug Yo Greg, Very torn right now, can get a 2019 12 core for around 3G. But Apple has killed off being able to upgrade GPUs in these past Big Navi, so there is that, and Mac Studio M3 Max and Ultra will be out soon, but I like gaming in Windows... my 5,1 is gaming pretty strong in 4k with the RX6800XT in Windows 11. If I got a 2019 I can basically move my OS and GPU and carry on, if I get a M2 or M3 I will have to install everything from scratch and then have a box that I can't upgrade! I guess I just answered my own thought as the new FCP only runs on new Macs and so it goes.
@@MacSoundSolutions I feel somewhat burned by my Mac Pro 7,1 as I thought there was a strong chance they would support the 7000 series GPUs but now I'm cynical. The 6900 XT is still faster than any M series GPU almost certainly will best the M3 Ultra GPU when it's released in metal benchmarks. Apple doesn't want to invite that comparison.
I've been long thinking about what my future moves will be. I think likely I'll move to a NAS for my storage and give in and have a pretty simple gaming PC and an expensive Mac laptop. At least I can make a platform agnostic solution for media moving forward. I own things like NI Komplete and CZcams eats a lot of storage, Apple basically has forced me into a corner to not rely on them.
@@dmug I hear yeah and yeah a PC and a Studio would be best case for me most likely.
I mean it's pretty interesting (although nearly not suprising that the thing performs pretty well)
but in general .. technically this doesn't exactly prove that the mac is a gaming beast, it _can_ be a gaming best after doing this and that but in its purest form .. you can see how it's _not_ a gaming machine
still though - great vid
Thank you for this informative video. Do you think RX 7000 series will be supported by Apple for the 2019 Mac Pro?
Who knows with apple, it’d be wonderful if they did and pretty big bone to throw us.
Excellent video! One thing you mentioned regarding other cpu options. Trading core count for clock speed is not really fully correct. That is simply referring to base clock and not turbo. It would be interesting to rerun your test with a 3235 or 3245 and both can hit higher clocks @ 4.4Ghz and will also bump ram speeds from 2666 to 2933. May net additional gains. Could be good content for a future video😊
Man I’d love to, but all my Mac Pro stuff basically loses me money ;) as I understand it with the higher tpd of the multi core means that it’s less able to sustain burst clocks. The faster busses though would help make up some of the difference.
Nice video :)
So hard to not go on rants eh?
It is when talking about Apple hardware choices
5:34 haha I have the wheels, found them for cheap at eBay, saves me a lot of back pain while moving the computer around for service and upgrades
I think you’re the first person who I’ve seen say they have the wheels beyond a few CZcamsrs. You’re in a rare class.
8:26 this game ran like butter on my Mac Pro 2010. No lag and etc
QuickTime as a visual capture does add its own problems. I may need to move to hdmi in the future
My tomb raider results: 111FPS @ 1080P and 51 FPS @ 4K on a Mac Studio M1 Ultra 48 GPUs. Not fantastic, but comparable-ish to the 2019 Pro. I was thinking of getting a second hand 2019 for some gaming... Now Im not too sure...
Useful video. Thx.
I have to ask: if you already have a Studio, why not just get a gaming pc if your desire is to play games? The 2019 is an interesting machine but for the cost of one, and the upgrades, you could get a much better price-to-framerafe. Windows gave a pretty significant uplift even against of one of the better Mac ports.
@@dmugI do have a bit of a Mac collection and a 2019 would be a nice addition to my Pro line! However, I am currently trying out a Zephrus G14 laptop for some light (Windows only) gaming, but the fan noise is very annoying. (One gets spoilt with the Ultra)! The biggest issue I have with gaming PCs is there is so much choice with the potential for so much to not work properly. I don't find tinkering in Windows an enjoyable experience! Then you find many lower end gaming PCs don't have good USB-C options without spending so much money. The main thing I didn't want is an expensive, noisy desktop machine! Even with the Zephrus I find myself having to spend so much time 'tinkering' around to get it to work properly. For instance, at the moment the Zephrus is not showing lights on the keyboard, after 15 mins I have finally stumbled on the feature in their 'Armoury Crate' app! This has surprised me, running Windows on my Macs isnt this bad, one would expect a better experience from a laptop setup. If I did get a 2019 and give up on Windows gaming, I'd still have a very nice Mac (where it'll still get used a lot in my setup). If I got a gaming PC and not use it for gaming, then it'll quickly become a brick or sold probably at a big loss...
I love your website its such a fantastic valuable resource on Mac Pros, it's because of your pages, I started to consider getting a 2019 sooner than planned while they are still expensive!
You are right this Mac Pro can game although every other CZcamsrs say it cant
I found that really weird people said it couldn't, but I suppose if you're into like 240 Hz gaming, sure, the Mac Pro 2019 isn't going to be the best.
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na id rather buy a mobile gtx970 along with a super fast ssd and call it an M1. great video I just became a subscriber
I have the base model, which i bought for gaming mostly. I put an rxvega64 into it by cutting the end off to fit :) Prolly gonna do the same for a 6900xt.
ooof, the Mac Pro 2019 is a really high buy-in just to play games on Windows. Hopefully you picked it up used. Also, might as well just get a card that fits. There's quite a few.
@@dmug Yeah, i already had the card in my PC build. Bought the 7,1 new in 2019. Its my home machine that does everything i need, especially gaming. I got an interest free loan which i paid off a year ago. I upgraded the cpu to the apple 16 core last year for 250 GBP and i have 96gb 12x8 Apple ram. The extra ram i picked up random sticks from the Bay of E. Really love the machine. Hope i get at least 8 more years out of her. Buyers remorse? Sometimes, but in the main i'm good :)
I have had the sapphire radeon RX 6900 XT in my mac pro 2019. I'm glad I didn't even KNOW that some of these cards might not fit. It fit PERFECTLY.
Terrific video. Do you know if the RX 6900 XT performs roughly the same as the W6900x for video editing?
If I recall right, it the XT is faster but very fractionally, as most are overclocked by a percentage or two like mine. Someone did a benchmark I’ll be damned if remember where. If you go by metal scores in geekbench, generally the 6900 XT is faster
@@dmug awesome, thank you. Sounds like it will be a huge upgrade over the Vega II (single) that came with my 7,1
RX 6700xt is now supported via NootedRed
This is an old vid but I hope this video is seen, there is a mac pro 2019 with the 3.2gh 16-core with 96 gb of ram, a 2tb ssd and a radeo 580x on ebay for $1550. $1550.
Not the worst buy but also the issue now is how long they’ll be supported
@@dmug The processor isn't really optimized for gaming but the only reason I'm considering it is because at that price it's not a horrible windows machine.
You described setting win to nvme ssd bypassing bootcamp. But I don’t understand how to do this ((is there any article or video?
Boot off of a USB windows installer. :)
If someone makes a motherbaord for these cases that allow intel or amd cpu's that aligns with the case and standard power headers, they would have all the old, fliped 2019 market!
How about Mac Game Porting Toolkit? And wait for M3 Max for the Ray Tracing hardware or get M2 Max 16 inch MacBook Pro now?
Right now, the game party tool kit isn’t really a viable way to game on the Mac. It’ll be interesting to see where it goes but so far Apple doesn’t seem interested in creating a proton like experience.
This tool kit is just that, a utility for seeing DX converted to metal.
i just ordered a 4090... what power cable to i get i cant find anywhere that carrys the cables it would need but i seen someone on reddit do it
OWC carries Mac Pro 2019 cables and that 4090 will only works Linux and windows
i have that. so i just use 2, 6 pin power cables and plug the 2 cables into the single 12 pin connected to the 4090
@@dmug yes i have that kit… it only came with 1, 6 pin power cable and the mac pro it self also only has a single plug in location for 1, 6 pin the 4090 and 4080 needs a 12 pin connector
So the question is: if we presume that macOS will no longer support Intel-based Macs in the very near future, does the MP 2019 have much life left as a dual-boot gaming machine? I'm guessing it's certainly not going to have the lifespan of the cMP 5,1.
Anyone's guess how long Apple will support it but no, it most certainly won't have the life span of the Apple Mac Pro 5,1s.
There's movement on getting them to boot macOS 13 (already has been done) but to a usable place. Granted this is unofficial support, but I just don't see a reality where a Mac Pro 7,1 has 13 years of life sadly. If I were to bet, it'd be 2025 is the last year of support plus 1-2 years of security updates.
The bigger question is when developers stop supporting the older computers.
@@dmug never. Commodore 64 still have people making for those computers
Very interesting, thanx!
Can you recommend a simple procedure of installing Windows 10 on Mac Pro 7,1 for those of us who are not programmers?..
In my understanding Bootcamp will not allow AMD driver updates, or did I get it wrong?
The best way to install windows is to install it using the windows installer, I just had a usb installer, just plug it in and hold down the option key and boot on the usb drive. Install windows like normal, (just be very sure you’re installing to the correct drive).
After that you can download the boot camp drivers from apple’s website or using a utility like Brigadier, a download assistant for bootcamp drivers that let you pick and choose. The only things you want are the Bluetooth stuff for the apple keyboard and mouse and the bootcamp control panel as everything else doesn’t really need to be installed.
@@dmug Sounds really simple, thanx!
Can it be installed on a separate NVMe drive? (mounted on PCIe card)
@@michaelkphoto8344 Yep. That's the preferred way, use an entire drive, even mention it in the vid. May need a wired mouse and keyboard to install as the Windows installer doesn't have the Apple Bluetooth drivers but I use a logitech mouse and wired keyboard so I can't say for sure. I have an inland 2TB NVMe drive for Windows as its enough to install some games and do the rare work related .NET task.
@@dmug Good tip about wired peripherals, thanks!
All that is left now - wait for the computer to arrive. I placed an order this week, and the estimated delivery is approximately 2 months!! Wonder if the demand is so high or the shipping services are so bad… On the bright side - the new Mac Pro is shipped with the AMD 5500. Upgrade over 580x?..
@@michaelkphoto8344 the 5500 is slightly faster largely due to the faster memory and uses a smaller die so it runs cooler, but also can’t drive two 5k panels or two 6k at once like the 580x which is weird. Both are fanless in the mpx form. I’d call it it almost lateral.
Can you run a bench mark with the Apple Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module as well?
Sorry, I don’t have one but the benchmarks are going to be that of it 5700 XT, perhaps a percentage point or two lower based on what I’ve seen. The w5700x has quieter cooling and doesn’t come either the factory overclocks like many the 5700 xt frequently did.
The 6600 xt is about 10% faster than the 5700 XT and by extension the w5700x.
Is w6900x mpx module better than 6900xt at gaming perspective ?
MPX is worse, especially against overclocked versions. That includes compute/editing/gaming
Picked up the belkin cable set for 14 bucks on ebay
Nice, I stupidly bought them at full price and should have gotten the OWC ones.
Thanks for this video! I would like to know if you have an update to this video 2023?
Sadly nothing has changed on the GPU support front thus not much to say. You can’t use any newer GPUs macOS as Apple seems unwilling to throw pro customers a bone.
Thanks for your fast reply I appreciate it! So I should buy the 6900 and it should work properly with sonoma os and the CD-R display? And could you also send me the link to this card?
Thanks again
@@Syl-jimthere isn’t a singular 6900 XT that works, rather ones that fit. the only thing you need to be aware of is length. 6900 XTs can be harder now to track down these days. 6950s can be used with OpenCore.
I’m not sure what a CD-R display is but it should work assuming it uses display port or hdmi. If it uses dvi you’ll need to have the appropriate cabling.
Thanks again! Sorry xdr display not cd-r. I’m not able to see one Under 305mm.
Appreciate your help! Thanks
@@dmug I did install the 6900 XT Thanks a lot!! The fan is blowing like crazy in sleep..Do you have any advice for this?
has anyone tested the mod rage plugin hook on the m1 macs?
Can’t say I’ve heard of it, what is it and what does it do?
@@dmug its a mod for grand theft auto 5 that allows you to play as a cop with a mod called lspdfr. its fun i cant stop playing it.
Is this Boot Camp windows or Parralel windows?
Dual booting, windows installed natively and additional drivers installed via Brigadier.
An user friendly upgrade to your squirt bottle for daft Apple employees, use indelible florescent dye. That way HR can be sure which Apple employees need to go.
I would use Linux on it. It's at least better than Mac OS for gaming, and of course it would support any GPU you care to throw at it.
17:30 did you mean to say 1060 and meant rtx 3060????
Dammit, good eye/ear. I flubbed that and didn't even notice when editing.
@@dmug so you meant to say 3060?
@@FULLSENDFC Yep, using the mediocre comparison site shows that they're neck and neck
@@dmug what the can you do me a favor and load up cs2 and get some benchmarks there for me??? i’ll pay u 🙏
@@FULLSENDFCI returned the 6600 XT, so I only have 6900 XT. I’ve never played it, but I assume it’s free?
Bro kept the plastic on the gpu 💀
Ha, I expected this. I ended up returning that is why
Not a fan of Mac but I love my iPhone lol too much money for less performance.
The RX 6600 is closer to a gtx 1080