"Purity" is a dehumanizing, delusional concept
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- čas přidán 3. 10. 2023
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With the exception of when the hormones started hitting as a young teenager I have never been as horny as on my Mormon mission.
No masturbation, no hugs, no kisses, no flirting (no overt flirting anyway) etc. sent me…and my suspicion is most missionaries way on edge and over the top horny to a degree that is just insane.
Now I don’t think about it much unless I don’t get it. The world is a lot less sex obsessed than Mormons.
Not related to religious purity, but I am SO sick of seeing the body count "debates" on TikTok. These people don't even realize it's just purity culture they're regurgitating.
I get the body count think but why do men get a free pass
Yes, but also: I think you could argue that body count is tied to religious purity culture; those people just don't think about the connection. But the history of how these ideas became normalized is still very relevant.
Like, somehow, it's the multiplicity of sex partners that "soils" people, and they never have a nuanced view about the safety and quality of the sexual partners, and just focus of the number. It's really clear when you look at it from their views of having a lot of sex with the same person vs sex with 10 people once.
Yep. It all stems from patriarchy which is inextricably tied up with most religions.
@@gingernutpreacher I'd never even heard about it at all until a few years ago. The body count 'concern' is just judging people for having multiple partners, or not being virgins. Why?? Purity culture
@@gingernutpreacherThere is/was a whole trend called the “bro code” back in the 2000s to 2010s where guys would joke about how they lie to their gfs and wives about not having sex with past partners, and how they would cover for their male friends if they cheat on their wife or gf. Or if they “snitch”, they are breaking the bro code. Meanwhile, most religious and virgin women at the time just expect their boyfriend or husband to have had premarital sex and thats just the reality they had to face like its normal.
These same guys are usually the same guys who complain women fooling around before settling or having sex with past partners while lying about doing the same. The word body count only became a thing when women started having casual or premarital sex, though they had no problem using the word “conquest” or other inanimate descriptors to describe women.
43:09 the problem with the “beauty” of fathers being overly protective about their daughters is that they’re telling on themselves that even they know its “all men”. Then they’ll turn around and gaslight that same daughter about how its “not all men” when they hear about anything bad a man has done.
Yeah, I hear you. I’ve rebuked my dad for telling my little sister not to wear certain things but I know it’s coming from a good place of not wanting her to “sexualize” herself when she’s still a kid. It’s such a weird one.
I dont know if its all telling on themselves as it is from dealing with other men including their friends and family, especially when its normalized. Though there are absolutely some men who encourage and congratulate their sons when they have sex yet do the whole “my child wont date til their 20s” / “I’m keeping the door open. no funny business” to their daughters
@@hanatemonstas4485 it's still hypocrisy if they then get mad whenever they hear anyone suggest that all men are dangerous.
I have a story!
I don't wear brass at home. My dad doesn't care. My brother doesn't care. My mom did but she got over it.
After my brother for married, SIL was sitting with me for a bit and then she sent HIM to tell me to wear a bra. I've explained cramps too him so we're had a talk about whether or not it causes sagging etc and it was never brought up again.
SIL's gotten over it now. 🤷
Tanner’s acknowledgment of Samantha’s accent is a rare and beloved treat
My favorite part of the brand deal was Tanner looking suggestively into camera while holding up the toys. My purity culture PTSD could never.
The worst part of purity culture is, that you don't have to be part of the religion to feel it. I'm an atheist, but still live in society, so have to deal with all the purity nonsense anyway.
Being asexual and growing up in purity culture was a bad time (especially as a woman). On one hand, you feel like you're broken because you're not battling with your urges or whatever. On the other hand, you wonder why your teenage peers are even having sex when it's so easy for you to not do that. I had so much confusion and anxiety over what I was taught was the only good way to have sex/loose your virginity. When other people are seemingly not wrestling with those issues, it does make you feel like there's something wrong with you.
Then I started learning more about sex on the internet and realized sexuality is nuanced and complicated sometimes and virginity (especially for women) is just not real.
Purity culture is much more insidious than people realize. When I was in my early 20s my grandfather made a reference to sex and then was like "I can say that now that you're married." It was so skeevy and made me so uncomfortable. It's worse looking back on it now that I'm 37 and divorced and have more worldly experience.
🤮🤮
I was told by a therapist that I should say I love my body so... when I think about anything I find triggering. I love my body so I will enforce this boundary with my partner. I love my body so I will listen to my hunger cues and feed myself what I need to feel full. it's probably not helpful to everyone but its helped me a lot because it puts my need for self love above my desire to please others
love this 💜
How do you make a brand deal so entertaining lol. Love it all
I don’t know how common this is or if there’s data to back up my experiences, but anecdotally another complicating factor when trying to unlearn purity culture is that I feel you’re more at risk of being taken advantage of or even assaulted when you’re first starting to explore your sexuality with other people. Because you were never really taught how to discern sexual situations, have no idea what does and doesn’t feel safe to you, let alone what you *want* out of it, and have no idea what’s going on generally
I felt a lot of shame and guilt during my sort of hyper sexuality phase while deconstructing because, when people saw me as an easy target and took advantage of me, I interpreted that as my fault. I thought I’d made this (let’s say, “impure”) choice, and being hurt by it was the natural consequence. Which is absolutely not true, but it took ~ 6 years give or take ~ to untangle those feelings
I agree and I had a very similar experience
I also had a very similar experience
i'm pretty sure it's not just anecdotal. there has to be documented proof of it.
ok but why was that the cutest brand deal ever . i usually skip brand deals but y'all are just so charming and funny i ended up watching the whole thing without even realizing cuz it was just so fun
So interesting! I grew up as an autistic kid in Russian Orthodoxy, and anything sex related was terrifying and awful. I didn't masturbate until my 20s, after I had sex for the first time at 19. In order to have sex with my then boyfriend, I actually went and asked for a blessing from a pastor in my church, and he (bless him in all ways) didn't forbid me. It was insane looking back at it, and I am still carrying a lot of those same feelings around sex and sexuality and even physical touch of nonsexual nature. I appreciate you for talking about it. I've been avoiding thinking about sex because it's so loaded for me, but maybe some time I will be back to it. After processing some feelings.
Mindblown about the point about purity culture being more than just sex but about being "pure" and "good" and without flaw completely, or else. I'm on the ace spectrum so it was very confusing growing up hearing how "everyone loves sex" but I just didn't think about it very much? But i did see how unhealthy the purity of it all was, and I managed to teach myself some healthy sexuality stuff as a Mormon that I've learned most mormons just don't learn. But, I'm realizing now, that purity culture definitely affected me in the "moral purity" part. I never feel enough unless I'm breaking myself down to "why did I do this negative thing" and trying to weed out every single little mistake in my being, even if I made a mistake once. Very toxic towards myself. Thank you for this conversation you guys ♥️
Really enjoyed this one. Having been out of the church for (geez) like 14 years, I suppose I feel *mostly* deprogrammed when it comes to this type of shame, but it was quite the journey and I have been surprised by new aspects of it over time.
Great insights though. I think sexual shame is the primary control mechanism of Mormonism and, like, the normative American culture at large of which it is I guess just a more extreme example.
I suppose George Clinton said it best. “Free your mind, and your ass will follow…” ✨ Or maybe it’s the other way around… 😉
22:18 "negotiation sounds too sterile..."
A genuine relationship of any sort between any two persons (I can even extend this to me & my cat) involves micro-negotiations, micro-rejections, in the larger pattern of Collaborating To Figure Out How To Make It Work For All Parties.
eg, my cat has been going into a particular hidey-hole of late, to sleep for hours (because cat). I discovered a few days ago, though, that if I sit on the floor next to it, he'll wake up, and _usually_ come out for strokes. But sometimes he chooses not to, 🤷♀️ and that's his right.
I have never listened to this channel - came over from Mormon Stories. This was a helluva episode to start on with that brand deal intro 😂
Hahahaha hello :)
I hear you on the semantics thing. I'm always so worried when posting online that someone will misinterpret what I am saying. I'm constantly making super-long sentences so I can add things like "recognizing that others may have different experiences" or "in my own situation" or any number of parenthetical statements to try and be more precise and cut down on the chance of people being hurt when I'm trying to be helpful. It's exhausting and makes me less likely to post a comment... but that might be a good thing. The whole "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt" idea and all.
I understand and agree.
Additional comment! Tanner, you mentioned having a slur hollered at you by some @ssholes at some point very briefly in the video. This used to happen to my partner all the time! Some people are so miserable and frightened that they can do nothing but take it out on others! I'm so sorry it happened because i know what an ambivalent experience it is! (I get hollered at myself in public sometimes, but not so much the slurs!)
If anyone cares, I will retell the occasion when my partner was harassed in almost the same way as you mentioned, and then got some very satisfying accidental revenge!
I'm on my phone, so if my cool story via YT comment is of no interest, I should return to what I was doing before feeling moved to comment something substantial, since typing on this thing takes forever!!
Take care guys, great discussion!
me :"no Tanner, that's a different song entirely from a completely different era,,,"
my partner quoting Tanner: " what is life but a series of non-sequiturs"
😂😂😂
I'm so glad there are content creators like you guys to counter the purity narrative that some others push so hard. Being made to think that your somehow born "sexually broken" (I'm so sick of hearing that phrase), is unmeasurably damaging imo. Damaging and completely untrue! It's a very interesting topic to discuss!
Also, awesome brand deal. It's so much better when there's some humor put into it, rather than just a boring commercial. Well done! ❤
I’ve never been more entertained by a brand deal 😂
By common consent. That's the only time I heard the word consent in the church. And I still didn't really know what it meant...
I usually skip sponsorships (wait...should I say that...?) but this was perfect. It felt really natural. I've seen some other ad reads and they were clearly scripted, which is fine, but delivered in a way that felt a little boring. You all actually made me interested in the company. Good job. Damn good job...
I liked this vid just por the spon segment, 10/10
Diet culture and purity culture are absolutely connected
how so?
@@HoratioIsHere both seem to be, in my experience, rooted in shame/fear of the body and its hunger and desires, and natural penchant towards pleasure. But too much of pleasure eventually feels painful so it actually isn’t possible, in a way, naturally to overdo a pleasurable thing if you’re concisely aware of your internal processes. Sam points it out pretty articulately in the video. The fear is that, if let to its own devices, the body would gorge itself or just have sex all day. This fear negates the inherent consciousness we all have inside that naturally can regulate itself and know its limit and know when something is “enough.” Diet culture talks a lot about “bad” foods and “good” foods, certain foods being pure or “clean” etc. Food/pleasure/sex are often entangled in religion. I mean it’s the very first story in the Bible! In the prelapsarian world, Adam and Eve ate something they “shouldn’t” and now here we are in this doomed hellfire on earth. What a message. 😅 While I believe that the physical world is an illusion and not the ultimate reality, I understand this is as metaphor but I think the use of fear/shame/guilt around the body with regard to regulating sex and food is more harmful than helpful and quite caveman-like in human evolutionary understanding of consciousness. Just my opinion. Who the heck knows.
My parents where equally obsessed with my and my sisters weight and purity. My dad bribed me to lose weight multiple times in my teen years. Yet they would never let me go to a gym, too scandalous. People only go to gym to hook up apparently 🙄@@HoratioIsHere
Loving Tanners new hair but it also makes me want marble cake!! And the sad thing is that my local Starbucks that used to do it is no more 😪
Hahahhaa
Great points Sam about dressing more "modestly" because you know how others will interpret it and you'll be judged. I have the same problem growing up Catholic.
I'm working on accepting that my personal style is just kinda slutty 😝
OH MY GOD the FITS!??!?! y'all look SO GOOD!!! Absolutely stunning, the counter hasn't reached one second and the spirit has impressed upon me that I need to let y'all know that y'all are SERVING!
Edit: after like, two days I have finished the video. For me personally the biggest lingering effect of purity culture is the mental patterns of shame and self-loathing. It's not really attached to sexual things anymore, it's just how my brain automatically reacts. Love hearing y'all's perspective and dissections, always
I'm curious to know if either of you have seen the movie Women Talking that released this year. It's based on a true story from 2010 and I think you'd like it and have interesting things to say about it!
Ooh no, thanks for the rec!
Trigger Warning!! For anyone who sees this comment and goes to start playing the movie without any knowledge of what the movie is it starts talking about being r**ed within the first couple of minutes of watching. They don’t show anything, but the words are enough especially when you’re not expecting it.
@@kristenmae6761 yes, content warning for discussions of sexual assault. There is no graphic or sexual footage shown, thankfully.
My lovely tbm cousin was reading about that corrupt family that created the opioid crisis and said something like, "and I'm sorry, there's always some weird sex thing at the center of it" and later thinking about it i realized that she said "I'm sorry" because I'm exmo and to her, that means i must be having all kinds of crazy sex, where I'm looking at her going "you've been married for 15 years and have 5 kids. Trust me, you have more 'weird sex stuff' in your life than i do." 😂
🙃🙃🙃🙃
Me: What's TBM
Self a few seconds later: True Believing Mormon (?)
@@vidhead85 yuuuuup!
I have never been part of a religious group as such, but growing up my gran was a jehovah witness and when I turned 18 my mum got baptised as a j-ho as well. I studied for a bit myself but always felt something was off- although at the time I thought the issue was with me as I didn’t feel I was “good” or “pure” enough. It was only a few years ago I discovered ex-jehovah witness channels and through them I found you guys. It’s been really eye opening to hear people’s stories and experiences with these groups and it’s crazy to me how much has actually affected me despite never actually being in the religion. Anyway, all this to say that I really appreciate you both being so open and sharing your experiences and thoughts, and that I love how you mention at the end that we are all hypocrites and contain multitudes, I have struggled to accept this in myself so it helps to see others be so open about this. Thanks again for being your lovely selves ❤️
Love this discussion, and a brand deal too!
LOVE everything about this video!
Brand deal!!! Record deal!!!
Thank you again for making another video. Only started to watch it but they are always watchable when doing chores.
Thank you for covering this, yous two.
And I scored a $75 gift card for bboutique, which is pretty sweet.
Free chipping there in the U.S., but only 9 clams to chip up into Canada if you're not in a hurry.
I want to get one of the Men's toys and turn it into a sculpture of a biblically accurate angel.
That would induce hysteria, and I'm tickled pink at the thought.
Yay!!!
So excited
Sam says hungry, Tanner hears horny 😂😂😂
Looking absolutely fantastic!
I get this need to reclaim sexuality and power. As a menstruating exmo, it was so powerful when I sold sex toys for Pure Romance. MLMs not so great, but I was able to learn to talk about sexuality openly and share that experience with many other women who also needed a safe space to talk openly and ask questions.
This is such an important conversation! I really appreciated the point of staying nonjudgmental about how others disentangle themselves from purity culture. People handle stuff in different ways, and that’s easy to forget.
the music coming in at 36:37 gave me a heart attack
I’ve also thought about how not having sex before marriage is a rule that would have been important in the times the Bible was written because contraceptives are such a new idea. Like, they didn’t have condoms. They didn’t have birth control pills. They didn’t have any of that.
bookshelf tour??
Can yall do a video on psychedelics? I'm so curious and feel like they would help me unpack my brain.
gotchu!
czcams.com/video/w611CTQfXRU/video.htmlsi=BerD0_fB2Mas0_aN
I’m a sex worker and have been on and off for the past 10 years. I stopped going to church when I was around 17 and realized my atheism when I was around 23. To this day I delete my browser history out of shame even though I literally MAKE p*rn. Mormon trauma runs deep
Growing up in the 90s you had women being overly sexualised in media -all my fave films like Bill and Ted, Waynes World and the Keranng cartoon of Pandora Peroxide, Tomb Raider (the game not the film) ALL portrayed women as brainless bimbos with big T&A. Then on the church side you were undersexualised and told off for wearing even the slightest makeup and were expected to dress like an Amish woman-all demure and meek. You would get told not to wear tank tops because 'it made it hard for the men' 🤭🤭 (The guys got shamed too of course) So on BOTH sides you had negative messages that made you feel guilty and ashamed for even having curves. I dealt with it by dressing like Billie Eilish in combats and loose t shirts. Worked so well that no guy wanted to date me 😅
Nice mesh shirt.
also could you guys talk about what you were saying towards the end about institutional vs philosophical buddhism, reading 'a path with heart' by jack kornfield that has me thinking about that and i'd love to hear more what you guys think
LOVE THAT BOOK
Omg Bellesa!! Congrats guys ❤ ❤ ❤
I love this topic (well I hate it but you know what I mean lol)
That part where Sam points out that restriction is creating the sense that you have no control without the restriction really flipped a switch in me, I’ll be chewing on that for a few days I reckon so thanks ☺
Yay wholesome sluts lol 😆 SAME
Quite Daddy! Have a Bellesa'd day!
This has been an amazing video, thank you two so much. We're newly awakened enby and poly in a stable mono relationship for 10 years, and came from a miltary catholic background so unshelling ourself slowly has been a process
3:27 America* Ferrera
Heard a fellow TBM at the time in elders quorum meeting say …
It’s probably a sin to look at your wife & lust after her - b/c of the bible verse about looking at a woman lustfully is like already committing adultery with her
I was like - say what 😳
This is me giving tanner my consent to take me out in that look
My sexual Awakening came from Reading Sunstone. The comic, not the other thing! 😅
Good comic
The amount of times youd get talks at youth events ( speaking from an evangelical not mormon perspective) about masturbation being bad-I mean like why???! If youre gonna tell people not to have sex before marriage at least allow them a little release somewhere but oh no, that wasnt allowed!
Purity is a figment of our collective imagination’s. It doesn’t exist outside of our own minds. humans are strange like that, we can invent things in our minds and collectively go along with things that don’t actually exist.
You are both so beautiful 😍.
Everyone should be polyamorous 😂. The world would be a better place 😅
I like Bellesa, I’ve never used them, but I like toys so I’m sure they’re good. They always do this brand deal though where most ppl get a gift card & the gift card is sort of small, in comparison, they’re stuff is crazy expensive, unless toys in the last few years have just jumped by 300%. My consumer critique is just for them to try & have some less expensive options for the poors, stores do. Maybe they’re like the Gucci of sex toys & I’m just super ignorant.
Really?! Someone said they got a $75 gift card which seems wild to me! I do think high-quality toys tend to be expensive.
🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱
My personal views: if you would like to CHOOSE to stay a virgin until marriage, that’s great. But, it shouldn’t be a shameful tactic that your literal eternal wellbeing is called into question. I mean, Mormon Stories was literally saying that purity is more important to Mormons than the person’s life. That is so unbelievably messed up!
I would definitely question what’s behind the decision to stay a virgin until marriage. I can’t really imagine it being anything but the concept of purity. I suppose someone might not want to get physiologically attached to someone through sex before there’s commitment, but I think the risk of marrying someone you’re not compatible with seems far greater. 🙈
@@ZelphOntheShelf I mean, even some people outside of religion want to give their virginity to the person they are going to marry. But, I also personally think it’s unwise because of what you stated, sexual compatibility. And just being familiar with sex and how it works for you… I think that only enhances your sexual experience.
@@ZelphOntheShelf im not sure if this was just MY own Mormon upbringing, but I was dead set on even saving my first kiss until marriage. I told my mom that and she’s like, “that is so beautiful! You have such a strong spirit!”
As a recent convert who stopped attending. Their is two dating extremes going on. Outside the church you have hook up culture which most women are racking up insane body counts. I’m talking near 100 sexual partners by age 25. Then the purity culture in Mormonism is very extreme. But to view sex or sexual thoughts are bad is harmful. What the church needs to do is educate members on sex but at the same time stress waiting till you’re married. But to say someone is an addict because they masturbate more than once a year is very extreme. Being an addict means the addiction is overtaking your daily and normal routine.
why does it matter how many people someone has slept with? why is marriage necessary for sex?
@@ZelphOntheShelf because studies have shown that after 5 sexual partners a women loses her ability to pair bond, and after 5 sexual partners her odds of divorcing and/or cheating increase significantly. If someone wants to get with someone that’s been with lots of people you do you but I won’t that’s just gross. And to further back this up sexual transmitted infections are exploding in nearly all metropolitan areas. Being more promiscuous means more likely to get infected. Marriage is a bad deal for men in most cases since the inception of no fault divorce. So I don’t have a problem with just being in a committed relationship. But because you don’t see how being promiscuous can effect future relationships is quite disturbing
you shouldn’t stress waiting for marriage. you should say that it's a path some people take, and the advantages to waiting are pretty equal to those of not waiting.
stressing an importance of waiting only creates shame and leads to unhealthy sexual practices.
I don't think you can possibly know what "most" women are doing in their sex lives. It varies greatly, as it does with men. There's nothing inherently wrong with having 100 sexual partners though.
@@powderandpaint14 the fact that you don’t think having 100 partners is “inherently wrong “ is very disturbing and shows just how far society has decayed by normalizing promiscuity. For this very reason is why std rates have skyrocketed in nearly every metropolitan city. Ignorance is bliss I guess
Y’all are hotter than evah!!!
it is not delusional concept at all.
such a sound argument you make. 🙄 it's a man-made concept for sure, so yes, it is arguably delusional as it has no basis in reality.
Y’all’s might be the only brand deal I’ll ever sit through. You deserve that coin. 🤌