Genevieve Athis | Private Schools Are A Disaster (1/8) | Oxford Union
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2019
- *The speaker in this video is a competitive debater, and therefore the views expressed may not necessarily represent their beliefs. *
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The Motion: This House Believes Private Schools are a Public Disaster.
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So many privately educated people in that room, the irony
I think ‘how funny’ would be a better way of putting it. Even if it was a room of private school headmasters who absolutely disagreed with every word the speaker said, it wouldn’t really be ironic
Unexpectedly, reading this article brought tears to my eyes. I left the Royal Navy in 2009 after nearly 30 years of service and had been at one time or other its principal advisor for all learning (individual, team and whole ship education and training), leadership and management. My last 6 years were in NATO as part of its battlestaff. After retiring, I wanted to ‘give back’ to our young people and spent 13 years teaching the most critical subjects in the Engineering, Aerospace and Automotive disciplines up to second year degree level. However, I found the leadership was self-satisfied and complacent to the obvious failings of the current education system, particularly in meeting the STEM needs of industry, and was highly resistant to any significant changes. Last year I was told that Exeter College was due an OFSTED inspection so I had to resign as I knew my integrity would compel me to tell the supposed educational leadership of this country, and ,OFSTED, exactly what I thought of their leadership, knowing that the college would be downgraded by a single word - ‘Inadequate’ - if I did so. Since then, of course, there have been tragic consequences around this issue, and I doubt whether I will ever be asked back into the system to teach again.
Has the Oxford Union ever uploaded a debate in order?
Children with wealthy parents that can afford to send them to private schools end up doing better in life and getting higher-paying jobs, giving them an unfair advantage over poorer kids from day one. Britain's current state education system churns out children at as fast a rate as possible and welds them into a 9-5 work ethnic rather than teaching them important life skills.
And is that a failure because of the mere existence of private education, or a failure of government to provide a system of schooling that can match the academic rigour of said schools? If the government is willing to take the mantle, they must not fail to live up to the obligation.
Unfair advantage? Life is not fair, thank God.
@J W I simply fail to see how the mere existence of alternatives to State education detracts from the potential quality of state education.
It is the government's job to provide the schooling of 93% of the country, and if they cannot handle such a task, they should perhaps think about making more schools selective and opening up job markets for 14 year olds.
When we had grammar schools and a lower school leaving age, I felt this was far more meritocratic and rewarding. Both were attacked from an ideological standpoint, to be replaced with a failed comprehensive system.
I am on par with the majority of Grammar school educated and a good deal of privately educated students in terms of career prospects, and I was entirely State educated.
The opposition to the existence of private schools seems entirely ideological. I feel that the Proposition in this debate, all being blatantly left leaning, may feel a sense of fear from having schools that do not teach their brainwashing syllabus.
@J W You're too kind! Part of a last bastion of genuine thinkers amid a sea of ideology here at one of our great universities that have been turned into brainwashing factories.
If you've the money, it's well worth looking into joining societies in London like the Adam Smith institute and Bow Group. They host regular events that aren't plagued by smarmy self-righteous student clones.
Yes, that's absolutely correct. That's why I said 'current' state education system.
Banning private education would be a stupid decision, regardless of my opinion on how it breeds inequal senses of accomplishment and privilege in our current social climate where life expectancies are 12 years higher than average in the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Britain. Children who have well-off parents will go to better schools and later in life probably gloat about how 'hard work got me where I am'.
Every child must have the same opportunity to realise their potential rather than leaving it down to some birth lottery. Tackling inequality in the education system is useless when financial barriers elsewhere aren't addressed.
I really wish these videos were compiled into one.
What bubble is Genevieve Athis living in when she states unemployment no longer brings with it the fear of starvation ? Universal Credit laughs at that in the UK. Still the argument was very well put as a whole.
So, let me get this straight: you segregate learning resources behind a paywall when children don't get to decide which family they're born into or what their income is and yet they call the lower-classes 'uneducated' and 'filthy'? Isn't that just class-based discrimination? I thought we were all equal, guess I was wrong.
So do you think people who do better at school, jobs and career through hard work and determination should be equal to those who don't try??? Your socialistic ideas suck!!
"As long as we keep dividing our children" Is she also upset about classes being split into sets to accomodate their pace and potential?
If a richer person wants to send their kid to a school they have to pay for, crack on as long as they pay their taxes. The real tragedy is the lack of grammar schools. The schools you don't pay fees for for the better attaining pupils who would benefit which also frees up teachers to teach at a more defined level.
We can't expect to shove all the different children into one school with the same teachers and expect them to cater to everyone. In that system no-one gets the best. We should have many different schools specialising more.
One size doesn't fit all.
You make a really good point. If you think that the UK has an issue with this, you should come to the US...
Private schools are doing exactly that. They shove all types of students of different abilities into one school the only common denominator is that they are rich. Smart kids do well anyway, but even the stupid and lazy kids are carried through school which basically gets them the qualifications they need by pushing them. Their parents are paying for them to be spoon fed. Get handed a good life.
Meanwhile state schools dumb and even smart kids aren’t pushed or told to do well. There is a lack a of academic culture. Even the kids who would have been very smart and hardworking never think to aim that high or apply to oxbridge or try.
Private schools exacerbate the lack of social mobility.
it would be good if the debates are subtitled, I am a student trying to learn english and can only understand 80% of what she said, the autogenerated subtitle isn't even close to accurate at times :(
No its great
Most Brits would love to understand 80% !
I’m sorry about that, I hope it’s gotten better since you’ve written this.
Her hand operates her voice.
A great speaker Good Luck.
5:09 omg the eyebrows! I'm blind!
Great closing words. Well done you.
I’m ok with private schools, just as long as they don’t get any government subsidies
Great discussion in fact private schools plays a vital role in societies and obviously kids from private schools have edge over kids from public funded schools.
Her maths is a bit wonky
This girl is regurgitating socialistic rubbish that thankfully gets laughed out😂
why are the people in these debates always invariably pretty?
says something abt our society....good looks... more attention...more opportunities....more confidence....more success
yes she is beyond fetching. surely daddy has money, daddy married a beauty therefore, hence Gen. Gen may well have gone to a public school herself; surely her family could afford a "crammer" if she didn't. hence Oxford. cynically yours, moi.
Mammoth topic !!
If the statements retire the taxes over the poor people, they could afford a private school
2:43 whats it?
whole parents in this world always protect their children. All about the kindness. Someday i wanna protect my family too. About Eton, i agree if it's private if it serves the best educational programs, why not. It's equal with the responbility that they paid to get in ( capitalist or privilege ). It would make many school more qualified to make their alumnue more competitive outside. "Hope whole school serve the same educational programs and then there's no gab or barrier between us as a student" 🌐🇬🇧♥️
are the well-endowed schools not our big sisters? great and such important debate topic in this challenging period of transition
There must be evolutionary explanation for this phenomena :
Most of the time, in a debate, the one who is right looks a lot better than the person who is right.
With the words said, take effect and do action....this is not a joking matter....Where is the $$$. Be real...and of media tech BS for children in today's life... private schools are a saviour out of how gov has lost it......with 30 years of knowledge here...this is all BS. I will never forget someone from Oxford does not know what a worm is.
Evolution is a lie that was never proven
I liked this debate; thought ideas and expression were evenly matched. Of course I was on the debating team in my private school for women in Canada. It suited me; as girls we all dressed alike and didn't have to worry about the distraction of guys in puberty; if we were good at something we were free to pursue it to our utmost potential. We were also free to behave like lunatics and get kicked out of several of them, like Stephen Fry whom I greatly admire. Not St. Trinians; It was modeled on the classic may I say Harry Potter model; Houses, Prefects, a sister school in Britain; the lot. Hierarchy was based on merit and older girls were assigned briefly to take a newcomer under her wing until she felt comfortable. Yes it cost my parents a fortune, and yes also to my father's conviction that the life-long process of being a kind of auto-didact did not end with school, Uni, degrees etc. No concentration camp atmosphere described by C.S.Lewis and Guy Burgess, Graham Greene to quote a few renegades with vastly different outcomes. I was very good at academic stuff, and swimming and talking and the choir, and felt that I was accepted as a talented dancing bear by some members of my cohort, who liked me and I them. The coterie of the ultra privileged who were in boarding school or drove up in Rolls Royces did not necessarily stick together. The young women destined for a life of snobbery were people my sister called the Eatons and Simpsons, two prestigious retail chains a bit like Harrods; they hadn't necessarily traveled or were good at anything in particular or had Great Souls, and were lost amidst the influx of boarders beginning in grade 6. (age 11). I made life-long friends from very different backgrounds, and didn't perceive a sense of entitlement in any of them, although that certainly existed among some students. In the context described above I would vote not necessarily for the most convincing well thought-out argument, but in favour of my own experience. But bravo to both competitors. Would also like to reply to Billy Bloomer, see below; who may well have a point, however I would encourage him to read Lucky Jim by Kingsley Amis, one of the funniest and truest portrayals of the British school system ever written, still relevant today --- and I did end up at Cambridge but did a fair bit of travelling around between academic institutions before settling down. Well done all!
What a load of waffle.
She chose world wide popular topic.
why do they say "Genevieve Athis Christchurch"? is that where's she's from? just had noticed them say that in another video during an introduction.
LOL how can you be on a platform try to fight for no elitism in education but then throw a joke edging at elitism smh
Private schools should be filled by merit not money. Biology, who you are related to determining who gets to succeed makes as much sense as granting women power, while ignoring more qualified people, based on their genitals. Or identitarians claiming they are not bigots because their bigotry is disguised with a little virtue.
Solder Joe it’s called private for a reason the rich parents pay more so their child can have a better education then someone who pays less
@@ceo8677 You must be a private school kid. I didn't know how private schools worked. I needed an asshole in a You Tube comment to explain it to me.
@Rich 91 I'm retired after selling a self made business I learned to code just for something to do. Moved on to EE and making my own PCB's. Got to set your goals a little higher child.
Hers was basically a Rawlsian argument. The Rawlsian argument of the Veil of Ignorance crumbles for two reasons.
First: it assumes that people are randomly distributed to their respective social strata regardless of their talent or their hard work. Second: it assumes that under a true veil of ignorance, people would rationally pick the option where their outcome is mostly determined by the state and not by their own competence.
Those two assumptions are entirely untrue if you actually look at how people behave and by what they are motivated.
Sure, the distribution of the talents/work ethic of the adults choosing to send their kids to private schools isn’t random (obvs reasons) But in regards to children, of COURSE it’s random. Of COURSE innate talent and hard work is entirely unrelated to class. Having parents who are rich, (because of the advantages their parents afforded them and/or their own hard work) does not mean that their children are any more talented, hard working, or deserving of a superior education.
Surely the announcer n his white bow tie went to a Comp?
CONTRA THANK YOU 🦆
Work the economic game out with children's education in today's limelight in Countries education...the exploitation of 3rd world countries with overseas technology companies with local skills is a serious issue of exploitation...It's an economic game of knowing where skilled people are, and to say the pun....It's not in 1st world countries, like people may think....wake up world
Private schools are essential in creating an environment where academic rigour and high standards are maintained. They are not wealthy, they concentrate their wealth. Spreading their resources across the State education system would make no discernible difference. If you believe in private property, you have to some degree endorse the use of that private property to gain advantages in life because there is a right for people to get ahead of others.
If state schools are failing, that's a problem of government. Not a problem of the mere existence of private schooling.
This argument is predicated on the idea that education absolutely has to be a public good with a uniform standard of quality. Private schools are companies as much as they are educational institutions. They have the right to use their accrued funds as they wish, and if this results in a better standard of schooling, this is not their fault.
Yes ,,, unless you are subscribing to the crass form of Social Darwinism adopted in the Thatcher era. On the other end of the spectrum there is the nanny state. In my country, Canada, Pierre Eliot Trudeau who repatriated the Canadian constitution is still deemed a Marxist by his die-hard opponents half a century later, although he handled an explosive situation with the Separatist movement in Quebec that at one point was very much like Northern Ireland; to call in the War measures act was to my mind the only possible recourse at that moment in history, which hardly makes him a Marxist. It is definltely not black and white, and an important topic for debate. Appreciate your comment.
You would think private schools would be celebrated for making breakthroughs in education, not being persecuted for them. Public schools should be jumping for joy at the ability to emulate the private schools with none of the investment costs.
Actually it's the state schools that are the disaster. Thank goodness for independent schools❤
Why bashing the 7% , not questioning the 93% ???
why were they laughing ?
At the suggestion that it is easier to get high grades (needed to apply to Oxbridge) at private schools. - So what is it about Eton, Harrow or Westminster, that give their students their students such a head start in life? - Is not just the grades...
@@adriansoto2107 thank you
My father said to me: '' life is unfair, so you must work twice as hard'' :3 i really grateful of him, he taught me how to only try to better myself instead being angry because other Dads worked harder and better than mine. My father doesn't has the duty to give me shit but he still did, i belive if i say i want something better than what he gave me, it is an ungrateful action.
Pity the hand...pressing every point....very distracting movement way beyond its effectiveness to emphasise anything.
Great speech
Like this condition facing almost countries that privatisation of everything all institutions have handover the capitalist n mass population getting deprived to take basic education
Socialism is ultimate options for people