Barnaby Lenon | Private Schools Are NOT A Disaster (4/8) | Oxford Union
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2019
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This House Believes Private Schools are a Public Disaster.
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6% of of schools in the UK are private.
43% of students at Oxford and such come from private schools.
You can't deny that is a massive jump.
It's like a birth lottery.
Believe me, the aristocrats will fight tooth and nail to keep themselves in power, and the ability to pass that power on to their inept and idiotic children.
You have also got to think about who applies. Although a small percentage of total UK students may be from private schools, they may very well make up a larger proportion in the application process. The "7% of the population in private schools" (a statistic that many like to quote) does NOT carry through at every level so a proportional representation should not be expected at every level. All higher education institutions should aim for admitting the best students out of those whom apply and Oxford and Cambridge should do the same.
So what do you suggest? I studied a demanding Degree, a Masters Degrre, i work hard and I earn money. Not that I am a millionaire, but enough to lay a British School in Madrid for my kids. Should I be allowed to pay for a nice car, a nice house, good doctors, a cleaning lady, trips, clothes, etc... but not for my son's education???
You should learn one thing: some people are born of rich parents, other of poor parents, some are hansome because their parents are so, some are intelligent because their parents are so, some live in the first world and some starve in Africa. The world is not fair. We all take advanatges of what we have and struggle with our difficulties.
@@asunagullo we should maybe tax you a little more so state school kids have better opportunities. Why would we just resign ourselves to that idea that the world will always be unfair? Why not try to make it a little less unfair?
that is why you should eliminate private schools.
In France Private schools were abolished. This caused the rich parents to make Public schools as good as possible. You can have a discussion with a plumber about philosophy in France. Does that happen here?
Not true, but the socialist keep trying.
This guys doesn’t even answer the question. Spent the first half of his answer misinterpreting the statement saying “private schools provide really good schooling so they aren’t a disaster”. Well obviously, that’s the reason this debate is even happening. “Disaster” was never referring to the quality of education in private schools. “Disaster” refers to the result of inequality created by those benefits of private school only being accessible to rich students. If anything he’s helping the other side by emphasising how private school has sooo many perks not equally available to low income students.
And so he tried to address this problem of lack of social mobility with quite a weak defence. He says “a third of students have bursaries of some sort”. So? That’s charity not equality. Charity is a tool of the rich to put up a false image of equality. Just because a third of students are on bursaries in some private schools (which they had to work extra hard to get), that doesn’t detract from the fact that two thirds are only there not because they are talented smart or hardworking but because their parents have that kind of money in the bank. That is fundamentally unequal and goes against values of meritocracy. It’s like saying “I crashed the car but the wheel was still intact so it never really crashed”. Those kids get a better start in life and have a higher chance of oxbridge ,getting into politics, getting into medicine law and other top paying professions.
In Private school being exclusive and antisocial to people of other backgrounds they develop connections which can get them careers.
Then he tries to say “private schools are bad but so are grammar”. Yes grammar schools are unfair due to middle class getting private tuition for the 11+, but they are no where near the level that private schools are. I have been to two grammar schools and they are still far more diverse in income and race of students. Private schools are the biggest issue which is why the debate is about them not grammar schools. Also no one is saying grammar schools are good anyway. The opposition was advocating for a Finnish model of common schools.
If you abolish private schools (as an increasing number of people call for) what pops up in their place? In wealthy areas you’ll end up with the best schools, as you can attract the best teachers and in turn make them incredibly selective. Much like it is now with the best state schools, it comes down to catchment areas (house prices are significantly higher within these) and which parents can afford to pay private tutors to prepare them for the entrance exam. If your argument is about wealth inequality, private schools are a symptom of that, but not the root cause. By the same logic we should abolish nice cars, big houses etc. on the grounds that not everyone can benefit from them. It’s also a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Our state school system is awful (considering our country’s wealth and global standing) but our private school system is amongst the best, or even in some years ranked as THE best in the world. Whilst their destruction may initially please egalitarians, I fear it won’t make education better.
He's basically a snooty toff shouting at and scolding a roomfull of adults as he shames them into agreement with is unapologetically elitist views or silence.
A snooty toff from a Council Estate who worked hard to get to where he is?
Thing is, looking at it from a parent that has a child at both ends of the education spectrum. I have one child with enormous difficulties that struggles so much in a state school because in effect state schools try to force everyone through a square hole and if you don't fit through that hole then they hammer until you do and what comes out the other side is bruised and battered and distorted beyond recognition. My other child who is 5 years his junior but works nearly two years ahead of where he should be is facing a similar dilemma, he is being held up because he is too intelligent, and so we are beginning to see another child being destroyed by state school.
State school is failing both my children in different ways, and they aren't the only children they are failing. State schools are so poor because they are too rigid and fail to adapt to children's needs. Private education gives my children the tailored approach they need. One will be going to a conventional private school nearby that will push him exactly as he needs to be pushed, the other will go to an independent school tailored towards caring for children with special needs.
State school can I'm no way care for my children and give them the education they deserve, Private will
15 or so minutes of pure class and eloquence. As someone who has experience within both the state and private education system, it is absurd to even suggest that they are a disaster. The levels of opportunity both academically and co-curricular are exceptional in comparison, however my public school was made up of a massive proportion of scholarship and bursary students who were allowed to undertake such chance under merit - not this inaccurate proclamation of wealth or class. Instead of looking at the constant successes of the Privatised education sector and critiquing it, the root of the problem must be addressed of inadequate state school structural formula and government funding. It is in fact the donations of the geographically close public schools that have such benefit for the schools around them and the Government (whether it be Labour or Conservative) needs to re-evaluate its public spending and systematic approach. The constant narrative of dictating an unequal opportunity actually creates a larger disparity as lots of state school children take a victimised and overtly negative view on life and the world around it. Furthermore, there is an unwarranted aggression towards the private school occupants and schools with derogatory tones and catchphrases. The real problem in this Great Nation is that we are becoming so cynical of our previously "proud" and "prosperous" traditional attributes such as schooling, instead of focusing on an improvement of the public educational sector which involves roughly 93% of the population. Eradicating the most successful parts of society may supposedly create 'equality of chance', but who wants a Great Britain that instead of having some amazing schools and some less so - has a schooling system that is flawed everywhere.
the one party system in China is as much a facade for plutocratic or technocratic oligarchy, as a representative government is in the US. the goal of his side, like many peers in agreement, is to confuse the audience with "the chicken or the egg but dont solely blame these entities, and let them go uninterrupted," meanwhile they run away not needing to win the argument. rumor is enough distraction
But what about the fact that the existence of private schools dis-incentivizes the public schools from improving because parents who care and have various means are opting out of the public schools? Surely this doesn't push public schools to be better? I'd say it allows them to fail because "who cares about the people in that part of town as long as I don't have to go there." I didn't find his argument convincing at all. He kept pointing out the people who can go to private schools with a grant, without looking at the systemic core of the issue. Private schools represent investing in a free-market type version of education instead of a public one. You can't hope to really address the issues with public schools until everyone is forced to go to them. It fundamentally comes down to what you believe the purpose of education is and whether you think it should be "the great equalizer" as Horace Mann said. (P.S. China is not really communist).
Or parents could push MP's to improve state schools rather than just rolling over and accepting them as being inadequate.
@@Alex-bd9qo Look up what happened in America when we abolished segregation and made white students attend black only schools. Those black only schools OVERNIGHT had their roads paved, their textbooks updated, lockers, chalkboards, and new desks installed. Believe me how quick change comes when the people in power want it.
6:01 careful how you word that one lol
anyway, i don't think many people would agree with the notion that "private schools are a disaster" in itself. rather the fact that a UK private school education is _ridiculously_ better than the standard for UK state schools that are getting the lowest per-student funding since over a decade ago.
well, i guess it's all irrelevant now since the inequality is only growing for state students who can't afford the devices private school students have during lockdown.. what can ya do? ╮(︶︿︶)╭
Exactly he just misinterpreted what “disaster” was actually referring to in the context of that question, whether that was deliberate or not, well...
coming from a country where private school owners lobby to defund and deprive public schools, this speech sounded absolutely disastrous.
Private schools cost a LOT of money and even just with the exams they are only taking the all rounders and not the people who may be excellent in one subject but not in others.
State schools are in terrible condition so if I could afford it, I'd send my children to a private school n a heartbeat 💓
I think many aspects can be used as a standard to make those school look private. If those school make many alumnus successed outside, they could be said as private school. That's all,🌐🇬🇧♥️
Lenon outclassed everyone else here. He spoke with true conviction and an authority that came from a lifetime of experience. He thoroughly dismantled the proposition in the process. A proposition worded with ill intent, designed to put the backs of those in favour of private schools, up against the wall before the debate had even began.
He spoke very eloquently but the actual content of his argument was feeble at best.
What an amazing speech and orator. Public speaking at its most sincere and captivating
Great delivery yes, but actual content was weak
Why does Barnaby Lenon have to explain himself all the time? He's an expert in schools.
He is just putting himself in a better position to debunk the points if his opponents.
ffffff
oh dear, you're facilitating China.
We need to look the whole things of the school interest. There're many things that should be controlled privately.
I do hope you do not think the privatization of schools is a good idea.
Great speach with great idea.