Why Mace Windu NEVER Wanted Anakin to Become a Jedi Master - Star Wars Explained
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I honestly think Anakin gave up on doing things the "Jedi" way when the council threw Ahsoka under the bus. Them denying Anakin the rank of master was just the final nail in the coffin the Jedi built for themselves. They let their fear of Anakin rule them, and their actions doomed the Jedi to the red saber of Darth Vader.
Anakin had dark side tendencies that you're ignoring. the Jedi weren't afraid of Anakin, they were warry of his unstable behavior. Mace literally stated this int he movies, that the boy is overly emotional and we see this repeatedly.
@@Prince_the_One I personally feel that if anakin was Luke’s son during the time Luke was the leader of the order, anakin would have been able to realize his full potential in the light
It’s funny. I’ve seen and listen to so many what if scenarios on Anakin’s training and upbringing in the order. You know what all these alt timelines have in common? Anakin NEVER fell to the dark side. Obi-Wan WAS NOT ready to take Anakin as his Padawan. Hell, I don’t think he was ready for anyone to be his Padawan. If they had just honored Qui Gon’s wish and trained Anakin, anyone who wasn’t Obi-Wan could have taught him to resist the darkness. Then again, it was the Jedi Order that caused him to fall in the first place.
@@Prince_the_One the jedi are weak and dead...
@Novabell22 I agree that Obi-Wan was not ready to take on Anakin as a padawan, however, I just don't think anyone other than Qui Gon could've kept him from eventually falling to the dark side because what ultimately turned him was how the Jedi in general treated him and those close to him mixed with his overly emotional tendencies. Qui Gon was the only who could've taught him the emotional maturity he needed to not fall to the dark side in my opinion
It was another strategic masterstrike by Palpatine. When he had Anakin put on the council, he knew they would treat Anakin like this. So he has Anakin see him as the good guy for putting him on the council, and see the Jedi as the bad guys for treating him as a bastard council member by denying him the title of master. Adding a big slight to a long list of perceived slights against Anakin by the Jedi council.
While I completely agree that it was a masterstroke to use their rules against them, I think this was also part of the hypocrisies that he hated about the order as well
Yes, Palpatine knew that the Jedi Masters (being a bunch of weird a-holes with zero tact) would go about this in the worst way possible. BUT… all the Jedi Masters had to do to thwart Palpatine’s plan was to NOT be a bunch of weird a-holes for once in their lives, lol. All they had to do was calmly (maybe a one-on-one closed-door meeting in a Jedi HR office somewhere) explain in detail why this was happening.
@@suntanironman They would never care to explain
This is why i hate palpatine in this era i don t want the sith in hiding i want the star wars galaxy to suffer for their stupidy this is why i pefer the new films i want palpatine to dumb as the old sith be open and proctive i want the jedi and sith and the people war each other and suffer thawn and the chiss and glisk suffer for their stupidly i want the fucking dj charcter killed off after he turn on finn and co your reward is death not money there wil no freedom and safety only death to the people of star wars for THEIR STUPDLY
ITS ALL ABOUT THOSE SEALED JEDI ARCHIVES(Holocrons), SECRETS(The jedis keeping from Anakin), LIES(The council told, and you could argue the truths palpatine told were also lies, in spite of technically being true... as all good lies are), AND MISTRUST(First from the jedi to anakin, and later, FINALLY, of anakin for the jedi!)!
“I understand that as usual, you’re playing politics.” - Ahsoka Tano
This is why Luke detached his order from the New Republic and worse people like Mundi, want Mace to be Grand Master ya, no, Ashoka saw some something that most the masters didn't, which why Quigen didn't want to sit in the counsel in the first place, because he know the republic as whole could become a attachment in itself, which is what Ahsoka Tano was pointing out which is why Mace doom the Jedi order that night in Palpine arrest.
Anakin is like a Greek tragic hero, like Achilles or Hercules. Strong, but possessing so little self control that he puts everyone around him in danger, and is ultimately felled by his own flaws.
In Christian belief, Anakin was like Samson. Pride killed Samson
The Jedi council and Palpatine played just as big of a part in this as Anakin lol
@@davidkosiba624 yeah, Mace literally broke every single rule of both the Order and the Council here, and HE WAS "trying to take over " and his behavior was al
So stupid, a leader should try to understand and inspire he did none of this here and also went against the prophecy wich he was punished for. ..
Mythology rule 1.
Never try go against prophecy
@@direkramseychikboy9102 pride and lust.
ITS ALL ABOUT THOSE SEALED JEDI ARCHIVES(Holocrons), SECRETS(The jedis keeping from Anakin), LIES(The council told, and you could argue the truths palpatine told were also lies, in spite of technically being true... as all good lies are), AND MISTRUST(First from the jedi to anakin, and later, FINALLY, of anakin for the jedi!)!
Luke had that same kind of loyalty to his friends. It’s not a bad trait, it is the manipulation by Palpatine that causes Anakin to fall.
Yeah, because Palpatine definitely made Anakin slaughter every man, woman, and child in the Tusken camp. I’m so sick of this idea that Anakin was the victim. He had every opportunity to make the right choice, but instead he chooses the selfish option time and time again. Everyone wants to act like Anakin was the only Jedi to experience heart break, but in reality he was just one of the few not strong enough to deal with it.
@Jake Fischer You do make a valid point.
Anakin is a tough guy to analyze. On the one hand, you could argue his weakness is that he cares where as Jedi’s are taught to be almost borderline psychopathic in the quest to preserve Peace/the greater good. The value life but have no problem taking it, and will strike down one another if it was deemed the best outcome for the galaxy. Anakin by contrast break their rule of having attachments and showed in the worst possible way why the Jedi had this rule in the first place.
He was raised by his mom far too long causing him to love her, so when the Tusken killed her, his love turned to hate for her loss causing him to lash out. Likewise, as stated in the video, he jeopardized missions for the sake of saving his companions, even R2-D2 who is “just a droid”.
The irony in my observation is that Anakin would become the most psychopathic of all the Jedi via executing Operation Knightfall and slaughtered all the Jedi including younglings of any age, and would go on to hunt the Jedi to near extension. Again, a very interesting case to analyze as he became the very thing he hated the Jedi for
@@PoinDexter47 You mean the same Tusken Camp that tortured his mother to death?
@@PoinDexter47 he grew up a slave and his mom was murdered, he lost it, not completely incomprehensible.
I think mace had a change of heart about anakin when he exposed palpatine as the sith. It made him think he was in fact spying on palpatine and did in fact choose the jedi over the dark side and his friendship with palpatine. Had he stayed in the council chambers he would have been given the rank of master.
Ironically, the one time Windu made the right decision regarding Anakin, he got killed.
@@Gabu_ to be fair the dude never gave any reason for anakin to be loyal to him for a guy who would probably end the world to save one friend choosing a mentor and a friend is obviously the more likely choice than just a colleague
@@B3an01 mace didn’t trust anakin because he was as rigidly adherent to the jedi code as they come and he saw anakin playing fast and loose with the rules as he saw fit. The bigger issue is anakin never gave mace any reason to like or trust him and mace has lots on influence in the councils decision making
@@leerogish7223 bro anakin was just a kid and mace already was like he cannot be trained fuck him why would anakin wanna interact with him and yes he gives plenty of reasons he saves millions of lives and cares about everyone and is one of the most loyal people and mace still treats him like shit and gives his apprentice ahsoka the fuck you and when he is wrong its like oh its not my fault the force works in mysterious ways
@Lee Rogish Mace simply didn't like Anakin because until that point Mace thought he was the chosen one and once Anakin presented him with evidence that Mace wasn't the chosen one he despised Anakin nothing more.
The Jedi understood Anakin's nature, but they never took any time to adapt to it. They worried so much about Anakin's relationship with Palpatine, but they never tired to develop a friendship of their own with him. They saw the world changing around them, but they never stood up to change with it. That's why they fell.
Anakin's loyalty to people over principle is what led him to body slamming sidious down the hole.
Loyal to people! Anakin had committed mass genocide of people by the time he threw sidious down the shaft. Anakin was loyal to his own beliefs.
@@jb-dn5fy That really just reinforces what they are saying. Anakin cared about those closest to him and when all those closest to him were gone or (from his point of view) betrayed him, he was alone.
@@jb-dn5fy he means anakin would kill 100 unknown guys to save one of his friends and does not follow the rules he only follows friends
@@jb-dn5fy He's loyal to people, not the faceless collective of "The People".
@@DarkAdonisVyers massacres are never the correct approach to fight for "the people"....
I actually think that Yoda liked Anakin. It was clear that Windu did not at all, and there was some animosity there. But I know that Yoda called Anakin a friend at least once.
@@Dr.Knowledge101 He and Ki Adi Mundi were illuminati... of the mostly republic democracy. I see a new EA game boutta drop in the new future !!!
Mace defended Anakin when Obi-Wan disagreed with the council's decision to assign Anakin to the task of guarding Padme without Obi-Wan's supervision in AOTC, so the idea that Mace or the council at large hated Anakin isn't based on facts.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Maybe hate is a strong word, but there were some mixed feelings there
I belive mace was jealous of anakin to tell the truth I think mace wanted to be the "chosen one" so bad and it ate him up that anakin was destined to be more powerful and a better jedi so he did everything he could to hold him down that's my thoughts on mace
Yoda clearly began to consider Anakin a friend again after Anakin's return to the bright side. It's hard to say about Windu, since he was always too serious to understand what the Jedi Order had become and what kind of hole it was heading into. I agree that maybe he was jealous of Anakin, but did nothing to help him learn how to control the dark side for the common good and use it for the benefit of the motherland. Moreover, he not taught his not fall for the manipulations of the same Palpatine. Although Windu knew more about the dark side than other Jedi and what could happen if it got out of control.
Anakin was old enough to remember that Qui Gon was the only Jedi who wanted him trained. He was truly his only father figure. Obi Won was more of an older brother. When Qui Gon died, Palpatine took the role of his new ‘father’, which the movies didn’t portray enough
Palpatine became more of an evil stepfather than a real "father." And Yoda is a grandfather who does not understand young people like Anakin. After all, in his time there was no such mess in his head)).
The loss of Anakin's mother drove him to fear lose on the people closest to him.
The Jedi also made him paranoid of expressing his concerns and getting help as well, there is a point where it seemed he was going to confide in Yoda but seemingly feared that Yoda would react poorly to finding out about Padme. I actually think the story of Anakin is fantastic because of how many angles it can be viewed in a different light.
Another good insight
Keep in mind that his mother's death was ALSO partly caused by the Jedi council.
@@Gabu_ You're lying through your teeth. Qui-Gonn tried to include Shmi in the bargain he made with Watto. On top of all that, Shmi told Anakin not to look back or worry about her.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 I get it, you have the intellectual ability of a 5 year old. Let the adults talk, now.
It's still really weird for Anakin to be given a padawan yet, he's not a Jedi master himself.
I think the nature of the Clone Wars necessitated that previous rules be bent to assist with the War Effort. Remember, being a padawan made you a "Jedi Commander" in the Republic army, and if you're going to have someone responsible for entire units, it kind of only matters that you let them be trained at all by others with experience.
The problem started much before this time. Anakin entered the Jedi Order at the age of 8, much older than any other Jedi youngling at the time. At that point, it had already been ingrained in him to do whatever it takes to make the lives of those he cares about to be easier and to protect them at all costs. Instead of teaching him differently and trying to coach him out of it, the Jedi Order just threw him in with the other younglings with the expectation that he would be raised the same as them and maybe turn out the same too. The Jedi way is that duty comes before everything else, a philosophy that Anakin somewhat twisted. His duty, in his mind, was to ensure the well being of his loved ones and to protect them. And ultimately everything he did, he did to fulfill this goal. This is why it is so painful to him when he fails, and everything he fails, he tries so desperately to make sure it doesn't happen again. To him, he failed his mother. To him, he failed Aksoka. He saw himself beginning to fail Padme. All these things would eventually come to a head.
Also Obi wan was nowhere near experienced enough to train someone who had already developed so many bad habits that would make him an extreme risk to fall to the darkside. I think a seasoned master such as plo koon could have maybe prevented his fall?
He was 9 going on 10, where are you getting 8.. He was born in 42BBY; he was 23 years old in ROTS. 46 when he died in ROTJ. It was done this way on purpose; he spent 23 years in the light, 23 years in darkness. Half and half.
@@dazdavis7896 quick google search says that anaking was born in 41 BBY and was 9 years old in The Phantom Menace (32 BBY). I would argue that he didn't spend the first part of his life in the light side of the force. don't reply to this comment, nerd
And the Jedi had failed him. Yes, Qui-Gon should not have brought Anakin to the order, but left it himself and personally trained the chosen one according to a more suitable training method for him, bringing up Anakin as a real Jedi like the Jinn himself, who follows the instincts and will of the force more than the code Jedi which of making others unhappy..
@@dazdavis7896 Anakin died at 45, not 46. He was on the bright side for 22 years and on the dark side for 23 years.
The Jedi, especially Windu and Yoda, are the ones directly responsible for the fall of the Old Jedi.
I think you mean indirectly.
Absolutely. Yoda was too passive and Windu too arrogant.
@@jesperhedenqvist922 No, directly.
@@musicbrush9231 i think Palpatine was the one DIRECTLY responsible for the downfall. Though i suppose you could argue that the jedi was both directly(because it was a fast chain of events that they more or less caused.)and indirectly (because it wasn't intentional )responsible too.
Idk, English is hard. Let's just say it was Jar Jar.
Star Wars is so well written, each character is very unique and that makes the prequels very good, I perhaps like those movies even more than the original trilogy.
Old Star Wars under Lucas. Disney writing is garbage and makes no sense.
Wrong
I understand the execution of the prequel trilogy was pretty bad, but the _story,_ the _story_ the prequels tell is far, far superior than the story of any other Star Wars Era.
The Originals were the simple hero's journey, there was nothing unique there. But the prequels are a Greek Tragedy.
This is a really neat insight, makes me understand better why Sidious could say to Luke that his faith in his friends is his weakness, it's because he know that was the same weakness that his father had.
In my opinion, it wasn’t anakins skills why they denied him the rank of master, but his impatience and his conflicted nature, you need to be more than just skilled to be a master, you also have to master your emotions and yourself which anakin obviously did not achieve
Ah, but that is why the Jedi had to fall. That is why the Force created Anakin, that is why the Force created Palpatine even. The Jedi had lost their ways, followed dogma and the letter more than the spirit.
The jedi claimed to follow the will of the force, yet Qui Gon was the only one to really understand what that meant. The Jedi lost what it meant to be human(yes, ik there's aliens, but I'm using human more in terms of values).
Balance to the force was only achieved once the Rotten Jedi was destroyed, and the Sith fell with Vader.
Speaking of Master Mace Windu, I've always been curious who's his Jedi Master?? His background is shrouded in mystery. I would love an anthology series about, Master Windu.
Pretty sure it's Yoda if I'm not mistaken
It’s Cyslin Myr! ^_^ she appears in the fourth issue of Star Wars: Jedi of the Republic-Mace Windu from 2017
Yoda
I believe he was trained by Yoda.
In Legends it’s never specifically stated who his master was. He trained under yoda like all Younglings, but it never out right states who he was Padawan to, just that he got assigned a different master
"He is loyal to PEOPLE. Not to PRINCIPALS." THIS is why Anakin is the best Jedi, in the sense that, he's not robotic or cold as the other Jedi. Even Obi-Wan at times is very cold. While Obi-Wan is everything a Jedi should strive to be, Anakin is the most human. I think this is why I feel like I, and many others, relate to Anakin the most. We are willing to out aside what others may view as the greater good just to keep our closest friends and family safe because we would be lost and broken without them. Which is exactly what happened with Anakin.
Reading the Phantom Menace novelization we find out that both Yoda and Windu decreed that Anakin would be trained slowly. The Jedi Council WAS holding Anakin back from the beginning.
In their mind they werent holding him back, but trying to teach him responsibility over capability. They put tradition over listening to the force, and they got got for it
@@tandavawalsh0777 Yes and no. Reading the legends novels we see a very codependent and insecure person in Anakin. All he wanted to be accepted, maybe even loved.
That was denied from him. For an order that is all about emotions and understanding them they don't have one shrink in their order? Trillions of deaths prevented by a few years of therapy.
@@jaanikaapa6925 legends is really hit and miss for me. Its more cannon than disney, but.... ESPECIALLY the stuff with Anakin had a really different feel that seemed wildly out of touch with either the movie anakin, or my more favorite representation, TCW...
As all novelizations from this time, it seemed alot less about following the story, and alot more about the authors using the stories as a platform to sus out their own feelings and insecurities in star wars about shit that had nothing to do with star wars....
It wasnt disney hot garbage bad, but this whole "I understand the character better because I read this auxiliary piece noone else did that portraited the character differently than anywhere else" sorta chest beating gate keeping self aggrandizing posturing stuff....
Idk...
legends is fine...
I guess(Most of the OT legends stuff was pretty good, with some obviously cheesy hit and miss exceptions)
@@tandavawalsh0777 I'm more interested in the psyche of characters like Wolverine, Professor-X, Batman, Vader and so on. For this reason the official novelisations are great as they expand the storylines.
I'm studying for a BSS, bachelor of social services. Part of that are psychological profiles, resiliencies and so on. Anakin fits very well, even in TCW, to this. The need to be accepted, loved, etc. As well as his need to safeguard and protect his friends and those he loved and cared for.
We see this in the young readers Anakin books. The stuff you feel being the authors dealing with their things.. That's part of it, but it really is about writing the character with his traumas.
A little kid as a slave? You know, the TCW and the movies really clean what he's been through. People who've been victims of slavery are badly damaged and need a lot of help to deal with it, even if they deny it.
We see Anakin's dark side in the TCW too in the 6th season with his jealousy over Padme. His love, for example, isn't really love but an obsession. Anakin has a tendency to detour in the missions if his beloved ones are in danger, even if they can handle that danger and have signed up for it.
Similarly, Anakin is always questioning the rules of the Jedi Order as well as their teachings. He doesn't lie, so when Obi-Wan for example wants to hear if Anakin's learned the lesson of the mission Anakin is forced to think back. Obi-Wan is talking about listening and following the "good" padawan in the mission. Anakin thinks back and actually sees the lesson in Tru's actions. He concedes the point to Obi, but not in the way Obi thinks.
That is fascinating to me, the fact that he's deflecting and redirecting and how well he does it. Even the Jedi do not see it. This is actually very much how damaged people act.
I'm not gatekeeping, just using basic knowledge to look at a character and how they're written. So far far more consistnatly than for example Batman or Superman.
@@jaanikaapa6925 Idk. I think they imposed wayyyyyy too much of themselves on the character many times and tried to make him look far weaker than was consistent with georges original vision, in part to make him more relatable to people like them, and in part because they wanted to destroy his original conceptualization because they hate strong things. Anakin is imperfect, and ultimately broken, but he was a firebrand like no other. Most people cant relate to this and the modern 'social services'(Weak, low T, leftist, socialist, big govt supporting, feminine/non-masculine) crowd love to immaculate and slander and twist and alter and destroy.
They could have done worse, but someone else could have done ALOT ALOT better, and many people have. This is how all stories and myths are. Everyone takes and adds what they like and whats good lasts and sticks.
I dont see Anakin as as 'human' as most people who comes from your position tend to seem to think.
Some people are really just made different. They are a cut above and made from something else.
That doesnt mean they dont have imperfections and weaknesses and blind spots, but that also doesnt make them like you(anyone specifically... everyone they arent, by their original conceptualization similar to)
I think the character of Anakin rubs alot of people the wrong way because they in a million years would never ever be anything like him, and thats fine.... But in the end, slander and twist though you all may, that beating furnace heart(of the character) is so resounding, it should stand the tests of time... imho
This may be your best video. It ties the movies and novels together so well. It makes the 3rd movie more poetic.
This is one of my favorite conversations in STAR WARS
Seriously he killed Count Dooku in one in one combat, something not even Yoda or Windu had been able to do, yet they have the nerve to say he’s not worthy of being a master?????
Did they WANT Anakin to turn against them??????
Another great video! The ROTS novelization is one of the finest Star Wars novels out there, in my opinion, and it's always interesting to see incorporate that rich source into your clips.
The order effed him over bad. It's as if they were guided by ... Fear 😅
Palpatine was such a great villian.
Funny how the council did not trust him and yet when it came to saving their lives, more often than not he was the only one they could trust absolutely, being as by there own admition every other Jedi would easily sacifice each other if it furthers an end goal, as shown when Luminara Unduli was willing to just write off both Ashoka and Barriss without even bothering to lift a finger to check if they were actually still alive.
It makes me ask...Weren't the Jedi able to read people with the force?? It would have been interesting to see the council discern Anakin's fears about Padme festering inside, and help him resolve them, before they turned him to the dark side.
For force sensitives, they didn't seem great at reading people.
I think they couldn’t see things like this, because it was stated multiple times during this timeframe, that the Dark Side clouds everything. It made things like foresight and, as you said, reading people, difficult for the Jedi.
@@swigmcale7555 that's actually a really good point.
It kinda seems like a no-win scenario 😢. If they make him a Master, he gains access to corrupting Sith artifacts. They keep him from that title, he resents them and sees them as a threat to his goals to save Padme. Either way, he seems destined to become one of the greatest enemies of the Jedi.
No, Anakin wanted the secret KNOWLEDGE in the archives, not the artifacts. Had he been made master, Sidious' plans would've possibly crumbled.
@@Gabu_ He would have done whatever it took to attain that power. Including accessing Sith artifacts
ITS ALL ABOUT THOSE SEALED JEDI ARCHIVES(Holocrons), SECRETS(The jedis keeping from Anakin), LIES(The council told, and you could argue the truths palpatine told were also lies, in spite of technically being true... as all good lies are), AND MISTRUST(First from the jedi to anakin, and later, FINALLY, of anakin for the jedi!)!
Amazing video,fantastic job.
That intro cut would've had me rolling if "take a seat" started playing on a loop with a little reverb in there lol
Fear of power creates the enemy you never wished to face.
Anakin's loyality is amazing. I junderstand their fears,but they were wrong. Maybe they could deal with him differently. Somehow. They were short sighted. I understand his anger. And why he turned to Palpatine. Anakin would everything for his friends,and people he loves. May the Force be with you too
Anakin's loyalty is amazing? Anakin? The traitor?
@@taetrrtot6205 he was manipulated,seduced. Since childhood
@@Gor85 he was also mentored and loved for majority of his life. I understand his life was tough but it wasn't unbearable
@@taetrrtot6205 true. But he also had too many attachments and fears. Yoda warned
@@Gor85 I think his attachments were his strength but definitely agree his fears but also his arrogance were his greatest downfall
I imagine that in mace's mind anakin is like the little brother of that 1 friend in your friend group growing up, that was way younger than everyone else, but he had to come along everytime. But since he was so much younger he did a lot of annoying shit that irritated everyone else.
I mean objectively speaking Mace wasn't wrong while Anakin had accomplished much he was way too immature to be granted the rank of master and looking at how Anakin handled everything that followed proves them right also add to the fact Palpatine basically forced the council to accept hit makes their decision even more sound.
@Random Guy or how violently they can swing someone else.
To fair Mace never gave Anakin a chance or try to help him.
@@tiredox3788 Let's be fair when has Windu been wrong when it comes to Anakin?
@@drummstickydd93 Yeah a couple of times.
@@tiredox3788 please elaborate.
Mace STARTED ORDER 66!!! If he would have listened to Anakin, and arrested Palpatine, it's what's known as a butterfly effect...
A 4d chess move by Palpatine. By appointing Anakin he knew they would not let him become master which would drive Anakin further into the Dark side
Truth is the council time and time again never fully trusted Anakin. If it was due to Anakin being unstable Mace was practically the closest thing to Anakin as a jedi master and he was on the council. Personally I think if Mace didn't come off as a pride shoved up his ass type master things might have changed. Also I think because of this Mace should've been the best one to train Anakin given how they both exuded light and dark tendencies, or even Qui Gon.
All the memebers felt Anakins unstable emotions but were still prepared to help him. Mace was the most hesitant cause Anakin probably reminded him of himself the most and there were more underlyin issues there than has been revealed from lore and shit I wanna believe. Basing off how prideful and just tight assed Mace was all the time this makes sense. It's just one of those ultimately shitty situations where everyone knows he belongs there and despite a thousand right things he does they only focus on what can you do for the council right now at this time and keep doin em with a smile on your face your time will come type shit but the time will never come.
Because of this sentiment Anakin had enough and was like fuck this shit and especially with how all the Ahsoka shit went down and her going rogue on the order because of it and their connection it was just a bunch of different situations emotionally that ended up being so damn tough for Anakin to deal with on top of Padme and her being pregnant them havin to disclose it like there were literally more instances not in Anakins favor and how tumultuous the world/galaxy was shit was so crazy in the universe it felt like there wasn't enough time to tackle all these issues.
I agree though the Jedi Order got themselves into more shit than being a help for Anakin when it mattered most with dealing with him. No one knows if he was made master would he have not later sided w the dark like Dooku? There was always that possibility but I like to believe if Anakin was given the seat and title of Master this would've only appeased him for a time. How long? Can't say, but I feel something else would've happened to stir him emotionally so strong enough it would take order over the Council and things would've been ended in a slightly chaotic similarity maybe not as dramatic as him killing younglings or maybe if he was given the title of Master this would've complete his legacy and made him feel like he fulfilled Qui God's wish and his wish.
Either way it's why I love star wars the stories always live on for years and we end up talkin about em for a lifetime!! Awesome stuff!!! 🙌
Great psychological dive into Anakin and the Jedi council.
Reminds me of alot of martial arts circles. You can be the most physically skilled but if they haven't looked inward to train and mature the mind and gain some wisdom really what have they learnt. You don't want someone who hasn't matured to have that kind of responsibility over others also.
They should have given Anakin the opportunity to earn that title better. And so they only provoked a person to the fact that in his own manner he sent this fallen Jedi order, the council and their code to hell.
Reminds me of some Army bullcrap I had to deal with back in the day. Part of what I mean by this is that I was a junior soldier given leadership authority that I was more than ready for and had been tested and proven that I was a legitimate leader. Yet I had to fight the barbarian horde all by myself just to get promoted to the next rank and almost didn't get it. The sole difference is that I got that portion that I earned on my own without someone else's help. For me, it would have been equivalent (sort of) to being granted the rank of Jedi Master, but not receiving a seat on ANY Jedi council.
WE ARE talking about the Same guy who literally Denied Dooku the chance to be on the High council sooo yeah
Stop lying!
Mace didn't allow or disallow Dooku to be on the council. Dooku like Anakin became too full of themselves and the membership is not up to just Mace,it's the ENTIRE council that votes
@@kwametodd6094 lol it was meant as a joke as I was making a reference to how in Tales of the Jedi episode where Windu kinda/sorta(?) Backstabs Dooku for the High council Spot but of course this is my Own POV and how I saw the episode
No don't misunderstand I'm not going at you or anything, just responding in the way I saw it. Just a comment bro no harm intended
I saw it as the council was like Dooku doesn't follow the rules that we place so we will pick the other guy that seems to go along with the council. But I respect different opinions
Very interesting video. I always asking for questions for Anakin and what would happen if this or what what would happen if they let him be a master
In that case, Sidious would have been killed by Windu. And Anakin, having found another way to save people, would not have gone to the chancellor for help. Although who knows what would have happened if only Palpatine had been destroyed as a Sith, and that order did not fall in order to be later was built better than the previous one.
Fear they feared Skywalker Palpatine knew the Jedi feared that any growth of power within the Republic would to the Jedi Council like an excuse to overthrow and take over The Senate
Anakin was still young, even though he had great accomplishments. It was basically a final test. How would he handle being named to the Council, without being a Master? If he proved himself worthy l, he would become a Master within a certain period of time. He should have listened to Obi Wan more and been more humble.
Clever move by Palpatine. Win-win-win for him because had they denied him the Council position, that would turn him against them that much more. The fact he was on it without the rank of Master still brought about the same result. Had he received the rank of Master, the Sith would have a vote on it via Palpatine.
Great video! This really gives an insight into the thoughts that guided both the members of the council and Anakin. I just watched Phantom Menace again today and found myself wondering why Mace clearly seemed opposed to Anakin even being trained as a Jedi at all, right from the start before they had spent much time with him. Do you have any thoughts about that?
Windu was a jealous fool and believed himself to be the chosen one. As Anakin grew that belief was quickly proven wrong, turning jealousy into animosity.
To be honest Anakin deserved the rank of master as well, he was a war hero, very strong in the force and one of the best duelists of his time and they denied it.
I love Ki-adi Mundi's "am I a joke to you" expression; in Legends at least he was not made a Master until he had been on the council.
Not “Legends”, the *Expanded Universe, which is the true canon.
@@JesusFriedChrist Saying it doesn't make it true.
I can only imagine every single shatterpoint mace seen in anakin 😮
Like Yoda himself said after Order 66 hubris, blindness and rigidity of Jedi Order led to their downfall. Anakin for all his faults was a good person at heart. Darth Sidious took the best of Jedi and tore him apart. Anakin Skywalker The Fallen One,
In that deleted part in revenge of the sith between Mace n Obi-Wan, it was mace that had more faith in Anakin than Obi-Wan,Obi-Wan questioned way before. So this is another hidden gem of dot connected but adding another layer
It's because Mace had a brain... even a blind man could see Anakin had a darkness to him, a darkness that in this setting has dire consequences, especially if power is granted too soon. Mace especially is aware of the lure of the darkside, moreso than many other Jedi. Anyone who puts that much effort into hating sand clearly has major issues, which were born out.
If you don’t want to make him a master, then don’t put him on the council. But if you are going to put him on the council, then make him a master. One or the other.
At the very least, if you are going to put him on the council AND not make him a master, don’t surprise him with the announcement. Sit him down before the council meeting and explain the situation to him in detail. It’s almost like they were intentionally trying to publicly embarrass him.
If the Jedi purposefully wanted to publicly embarrass Anakin to show that he is actually is full of hate (which wasn’t their plan, but)… then their plan worked perfectly, lol. If so, then you proved why he shouldn’t be on the council (so keep him off the council no matter what Palpatine says). But after Anakin showed that he has complete destain for every single being in that room… they don’t do anything about it. We know you shouldn’t be here and you just proved that you shouldn’t be here… but I guess have a seat anyway and please don’t murder any of the children later or something.
Anakin asked the wrong question. The question was why should when Jedi allow someone to tell them who should sit on the council when they don't even sit on our council? How could that be right? Anakin wanted that so bad that he didn't even think about the fact that Palpatine shouldn't even have that power. Because it worked in his favor, he agreed it must be a good thing.
why would yoda say that anakin wouldn't sacrifice someone else... (yoda/obi wans life they was talking and yoda says all jedi should put balancing the force above other jedi life) ....to win the war and bring peace and balance to the force. could this of been said before yoda faced his trials to gain life after death as a force ghost? as in his trials yoda himself saved anakins life and sacrificed himself instead to kill the sith, which anakin would of done also as he put others life's ahead of his own before obviously being turned by Sidious due to how he was treated by the council..
The fact Anakin is pretty much the only Jedi that at the time of revenge of the sith that would go out his way even if it meant war continuing to save a single person is exactly why Anakin would make a good master. He’s unwilling to let anyone die if he can help it.
Jedi have no attachments, they don't put 1000s at risk for one jedi. The Force is weak with this one
@@tylercassidy9426 honestly the Jedi are weak and a bunch of hypocrites
@@Hellraiser988Dew it!
@@Salah-fq2wi I'm not wrong though they criticize anyone doing one thing wrong but the counsel will bend the rules when it suits them
@@Hellraiser988 "Execute Order Sixty-Six!"
It's very interesting topic. What if Anakin became Jedi Master? It would be enough to stop him from become a Sith on not? You could say he was betrayed by Jedi Council but also his ego was always to high. Hmmm... Tough cookie
The not trusting makes sense, but them allowing that distrust to bloom into dislike is also rather against the Jedi way. Leaning dangerously close to hatred and fear.
The council was right to not make Anakin a master but they should have done a better job of both explaining to him why and help with overcoming he short come. Realistically it was too late for Jedi but they still were correct about Anakin
This.
Dude, Obi-Wan explained why after the meeting when he told Anakin that he was too chummy with Palpatine. Didn't you pay any attention to that scene?
@@decepticonxhunter4850 plus being a Jedi master means you have gained a high emotional level, you are calm, you are level Headed and you do not let your feelings control you, Anakin lacked this, he was to prone to his emotions, something a Jedi master couldn't be
Anakin had the lightsaber skill level of a master but little to zero self mastery as a Jedi
He had borderline personality disorder. Most likely, the force specifically created him as a Sith fighter who needed to learn how to think and fight like a Sith in order to knock Sidious off his pedestal. Moreover, he will learn how to use the dark torona to fulfill the prophecy.
@@kseniaboytseva4714No. All the force declared was that he will be destined to bring balance to the force. As you said the key to doing this was offing Sidious however he was specifically “created” to be Sith at all. Even as a Sith despite his overwhelming fighting prowess and ruthlessness he was imperfect in BOTH orders. Never overcoming the trauma in his childhood and being so intrenched in fear made him an imperfect Jedi unable to fully stand into the light side of the force. Same is true when he was Vader despite his ruthlessness and mass murders he had within him suppressed deeply within him a strong light. That light made him as a Sith suffer in self hatred, pity, depression, and doubt because of an inner conflict . Anakin never was wholly complete as a Jedi or Sith. He was destined to bring balance regardless of which path he took. Had he overcame his fear as a Jedi and overcame his inner darkness he would have inevitably taken down Sidious while remaining a Jedi. However, he took the other path. The book did a better job explaining Anakin’s mental state than the movie. At the start of the book he explains all of his accolades including his reputation as “the warrior without fear” however underneath his smug expression and commanding presence was an all consuming fear of failure and loss. It was so overwhelming the book even described it as a dragon inside him. The roots for these fears were planted as a child and being separated from his mother and they blossomed into thick nasty weeds after he slew the tucked raiders after they killed his mother. So Anakin was destined to become Vader. He was destined to defeat Sidious and whichever path he chose would have lead him there. Unfortunately the path of the dark side left him with so much pain and agony he never healed from it until he met Luke
Anakin was such a big baby. "Wahhh 😭 I wanna be a master! I wanna I wanna! 😭 😭 😭" That's what he sounds like. Like bro, shut up, you don't even deserve to be on the council. His very sense of entitlement is what precluded him from being a master. He wasn't ready nor worthy of mastership nor becoming a council member and the fact that he believed he was was all the proof necessary to show he wasn't ready. He didn't understand the gravity of the position nor the responsibility. He's selfish and violent and that's why he didn't deserve mastership. The council could have done to be more blunt with him, but I suppose they believed his flaws should be obvious to him
I don’t personally think there was any scenario where Anakin never turned to the dark side. It was the will of the force that Anakin would bring balance, and It was only because he turned to the dark that he was ultimately able to do so.
There is one scenario, but it's a catch-22: if the Jedi Order hadn't become excessively zealous and rigid, Anakin would've been properly trained and allowed to occupy his position as the chosen one, expunging zealotry and rigidity from the order.
If only Qui Gon had been Anakin’s master, Anakin would have become the greatest Jedi to ever live!
He was jealous. Anakin had defeated Dooku, something Mace was never able to.
Honestly Anakin never demonstrated the maturity expected of a Jedi master. Even with the rank of master, I doubt he’d have been satisfied for long
They weren’t very fond of each other. That was the main reason.
Whoa that's a crazy bit of info about the senate giving Palpatine power over the jedi!
It is also interesting they technically almost broke that trend once before, with Ki-Adi Mundi. He was only a knight when promoted to the high council, but they promoted him, without earning the rank, he even considered himself still a knight until he did properly make rank. So they will bend the rules for some, but not Anakin.
And see they don't like him but you expect this man to die for your order with out question!
Granting anakin, the rank of master would definitely have delayed anakin's turn to the darkside fully. More long-lasting damage would have certainly occurred in that case.
Wow! This brings more context to order 66
"Boy is you"
Yoda.
What was that gungan doing to control that one guy in that clone wars episode?
Anikan should have said "If you don't promote me to Master, then I won't attend Jedi Council meetings."
Sounds to me a real "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
They truly didn't give a damn about each other. The principles made them cold and careless. As a religion they were pretty much set but as soon as they were thrusted into this kind of situation. Their order was doomed.
The fact that Obi Wan and Yoda would gladly sacrifice each other for peace is exactly the sort of reason why I would never want to be a Jedi.
Anakin was powerful but lacked mental self control. It's not Mace fault at all.
To an extent you are right. However, Anakin as a kid excelled at light saber combat and force usage, so much so that he even beat some Jedi Knights and Masters as a kid. Despite being above his classmates, he wasn't allowed to receive advanced placement and was stuck learning with those who weren't as capable as per orders of the Jedi Council. It's like if you knew Multivariable Calculus, a significant amount of World History, and Quantum Mechanics at the age of 10 and your school system holds you back and doesn't allow you to skip grades or put you in an advanced class.
Point being, Anakin was shafted by the Jedi Council since they wanted to mold him concretely into being basically a robot, when they could have treated him with respect and gotten to know him a bit better. Would've made him emotionally stable.
Where can I find these books for the prequels?
Was there ever time jedi history awarded their members for their merits not status anakin ahsoka and obi wan risked their lives more than any of jedi counsel.
Quigon warned them not be afraid of the unknown towards the boy from the beginning. They showed the same feeling towards him by treating him like those who enslaved him.
Because Anakin said "what?" too many times
💀💀💀💀
"When have we ever followed orders?"
😥
Anakin had great potential. But he didn’t have the patience. He wanted things to move quickly for him. But the Council wanted Anakin to learn more & be more patient.
The problem isnt just that they wanted him to be patient.... They wanted him to be patient, but also to solve the galaxies problems, fight the sith, and save everything/one that pushing him down while also trying to utilize him is where the heart of the friction and conflict was..... that and not letting him go get his mom
Vader: Be careful about what you wish for Master Windu. After all you just might get it.
When ben kill maul he became knight similary anakin expexted after he murdered dooku he waited same reward
anakin is a jedi master just wasn't granted the title
Full Potential Anakin Skywalker is basically akin to a Greek Demi-God (Achilles, Heracles, Theseus, ect) while the Ones of Mortis would be akin to Olympians (Zeus, Poseidon, Athena;) and Aboleth in particular being close to that of a Primordial (think the Primodial goddess Nyx.)
It all comes back to what obi wan said anakin is loyal to people over principles i would argue that anakin actually dose care about principles but again if he’s put in a situation where he has to choose between people or his principles it’s people every time also anakin had visions about his mothers death for awhile before it happened but he was denied to check on her so when he finally dose find her again and she’s been brutalized day after day and you have the ability to feel that suffering as well as see it with your own eyes also the dark side in that moment is seductive it’s tempting you to cut loose . The dark side offers power but it’s also a trap and finally your mother who has loved you and cared for you for as long as shmi did what would you do in anakins postion it’s easy to judge it’s harder to understand it’s also revealed in Star Wars brotherhood ( much recommend by the way) that when anakin talked to palpatine about anakin dose feel guilt even if he won’t admit it to himself also when palpatine here’s what anakins done he wasted no time blowing smoke up his ass about how anakin was right to take revenge and palpatine never misses a opportunity to twist anakins mind remember anakin has been looking up to palps since he was 9 years old and in both legends timelines anakin was always isolated amongst the Jedi by his fellow padawans whereas as a slave he had a community of friends to talk to and get support from all he really had was obi wan for along time amongst the Jedi later Ashoka as a padawan but she got taken away from him and expelled for doing nothing wrong which completely shattered her belief in herself and in the Jedi council and by the time he’s on the council and spying palps obi wan has left utapau Ashoka and rex are on mandalore yoda the only other Jedi he felt he could to for wisdom which was yoda left for Kashyyyk all he had left was padme who he was having visions of her dying and palps his mentor growing up and palps was offering all the knowledge and power that he felt was being denied to him to save person he loves the most while I believe anakin was on the short list of Jedi to eventually sit the high council when he was older and wiser he was only 22 at the time the council was forced to accept him when he wasn’t ready
Had I been Anakin, I would have said, "this counsel means something. It is a counsel of masters. I cannot be on the counsel and not be a master. I will take my leave, now."
You should do a "What If " Anakin wasn't turn by Palpatine (Darth Sidious). How his plans could unfold??😮
WHY IS OBI WAN LAUGHING AT ANIKIN IN THE FIRST SECOND LMAO
It’s ironic that mainly the same thing that should make one a great hero. In fact was his downfall and what finally drove him to the darkside.
Anakin is around the age where most in the Order are Padawans, and he still is very young and acts like that despite fighting in a war
Palpatine knew his enemies and they had no idea he even existed. Yet another way that he played both Anakin and the Jedi Council like they were violins. Without a single false note. He controlled them all completely.
Ki Adi Mundi was on the Council while only a Knight.
To be fair, i think they were wrong. I actually think anakin could sacrifice a friend if he thought it was what that friend truely wanted and this is where i think they made a misstep that luke and even rey show a new path around
Anakin really couldn't sacrifice a friend, as beautiful shown in The Clone Wars - when given the option, he'd rather sacrifice himself.
I fear I am as loyal as Master Skywalker...
I always thought this scene was so rushed that it kind of missed the emotional impact that it could have had. I understand that the film was made in 2005 but I think this scene would’ve been the perfect clue that Anakin had a padawan. If Mace Windu told Anakin that because he never trained his former padawan to knighthood it would truly paint this picture that the Jedi are slapping Anakin in the face for something that was their fault which is mirrored throughout the clone wars series.
Not being a master but on console is like having Manager duties but paid as an intern😂😂
Sidious once more played all jedi including the high council with is brilliant strategy. many jedi already left the order because of the clones wars - being warriors, generals, was not the way of the jedi, but still the high council blindly support it. Sidious made sure Anakin was on the right path on becoming his apprentice at the same time he set jedi against jedi, as they were so arrogant and so full of themselves by this era... Ironicaly, Luke would somehow follow his father regarding attachements when he created his order, a far superior one and much more alligned with the will of the force than this late republic decrepit jedi order...