Crosswind landing WITHOUT being "cleared to land" in London Heathrow
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2023
- Is this landing legal? Pilots landing at own discretion in London Heathrow without being "cleared to land" by tower controller! 20 kt crosswind from south.
Airplane: Airbus A319
Captain: Pilot Monitoring
Copilot: Pilot Flying
Airport: EGLL / LHR London Heathrow
Runway: 27R
#a320 #pilot #crosswindlanding - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Pilots must be cleared to land before landing, except in an emergency. However, if there is not enough time between the vacating traffic at the point it actually cleared the runway and the next one landing, ATC can give a “land after” before actually waiting until the first one has vacated. This will reduce the risk of anyone else blocking the frequency at the second a “cleared to land” would be given on very short final, BUT it is at pilot´s discretion and responsibility to make sure to land AFTER first one has vacated. If unable: Go around! This way an “unnecessary” go-around can be prevented. But secondly, pilots should be aware that this is not a clearance to land and therefore they must not read back anything that was not said by the tower controller. If doing so, the controller would probably ask to go around if in doubt pilots have understood the implication of a land after… Thanks a lot to the professional controllers at LHR! Love being there and seeing how efficient and cool traffic can be handled.
That must have been a fantastic tour!
@@A1FAHx Thanks for watching!
Could you plug your camera to the mic so we can hear the ATC clearly next time??
@@TheReverses78 Thanks for your feedback!
Hi, I think you should check the “land after” phraseology once again. It means that two aircraft are allowed to be on the runway at the same time. Only allowed under certain conditions. Do you know them? I am not familiar with them
The hesitation of the Captain not responding to Towers initial "land after" instruction is understandable. He wanted to make sure the f/o who was flying had the approach stabilised. Professional 👍
Thanks for watching!
100% Legal "Land after procedure" Arrival airport briefing Jeppesen reference charts 2.5.2 , it took me a while to clearly understand the procedure 😁 As usual great video and good quality , safe flights my friend
Thank you very much my friend! Have a nice week! 🤗
That is possibly the most chill captain I have ever seen. Look at him just sitting back, having full faith in his F/O to not fuck up. Gangsta
Thanks for watching! 😉😎
That was a land after clearance, it’s UK speak for “Do you see the guy at the last third of the runway? Don’t hit him!”. Completely legal in the UK.
Thank you for your comment, John!
Quoted from 'CAA CAP493 Manual of Air Traffic Services : Part One'
-When aircraft are using the same runway, a landing aircraft may be permitted to touch down before a preceding landing aircraft which has landed is clear of the runway provided that:
a) the runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the two aircraft and there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be adversely affected;
b) it is during daylight hours;
c) the preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to vacate the runway;
d) the controller is satisfied that the landing aircraft will be able to see the preceding aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously, until it has vacated the runway;
e) the pilot of the following aircraft is warned. Responsibility for ensuring adequate separation rests with the pilot of the following aircraft.
Criteria for the "After the landing, cleared to land" in use at Gatwick and Heathrow. Taken from the AIP.
(a) When the runway-in-use is temporarily occupied by other traffic, landing clearance will be issued to an arriving aircraft provided that at the time the aircraft crosses the threshold of the runway-in-use the following separation distances will exist:
London Heathrow and London Gatwick
(i) Landing following landing - The preceding landing aircraft will be clear of the runway-in-use or will be at least 2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.
(ii) Landing following departure - The departing aircraft will be airborne and at least 2000 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use, or if not airborne, will be at least 2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.
Thanks a lot for the quote! Have a nice weekend!
Brilliant video! Thanks for showing what an approach into a busy Heathrow is like.
Thank you very much!
theres hundreds of videos on youtube which show heathrow landings from the cockpit
@@gntdriver2840 Yes
Perfectly legal landing. You had a land after clearance, which puts the ball in your court.
Correct! Thanks for watching!
Just be careful land after is not a clearance. Its an instruction that you can land after the proceeding aircraft at your own discretion
@@togacontrol6153 Exactly!
Hi just found your channel and subscribed. Great stuff! Being from England I am naturally biased towards our Air Traffic Controllers. They have the reputation of being the best in the world for efficiency and professionalism. Many pilots like yourself often comment on how slick they are. Keep up the good work!! Keith
Thank you very much for your great comment, Keith! Your support is highly appreciated! Have a nice Sunday!
I am a retired UK Air Traffic Controller. Thank you! We are often forgotten about so to hear kind words is lovely. Thanks Keith.
Nice video Captain. Happy landings!
Thank you very much!
Great flying! Honestly I was watching the video in the corner more so. Maybe the face cam would be better in the corner? I think that would look good. The jumpseat shot is just so good honestly!
Thanks a lot for your feedback! I agree, the jumpseat view is my favorite perspective. Unfortunately there is so much grain, as you can see in the last few seconds and the other perspective has a much cleaner image. That’s the reason I preferred it this way. Have a great weekend!
Amazing footage, thanks for sharing!
Thanks a lot!
Die 5° nach links bei 2:55 und das frühe reduzieren haben hier den Unterschied gemacht - wirklich super Video!
Ja, sonst wäre es nichts mehr geworden 😉. Vielen Dank!
Lovely video! Shocked to see you only have 6.23K Subs!
Thank you! Will be two or three more tomorrow, I guarantee! 😀😀
@@PilotWanderlust Haha! No Problem!
Good video and interesting about the ATC can give a “land after” before actually waiting until the first one has vacated. I never knew that.
Thanks for watching!
Top video! 👍 Just subscribed to your channel. Keep up your great work! ✈️ Many happy flights! 🤩👍
Thank you very much for your kind words and your support! Best regards 🤗
great Angle!! as always very professional. greetings from Vienna
Thank you very much for your feedback!
I'm from Austria too!
@@magentilized Thanks for watching! 🇦🇹🤗
The moment you flare...woah ! Thanks for sharing !
Thanks a lot!
Excellent quality of video, I really enjoyed watching this.
What cameras are you using? Thanks.
Thank you very much for your feedback! Glad you liked it! iPhone 13 & GoPro11
Nicely done!
Thank you!
awesome, thank you for sharing ! Didn't know that tbh. Maybe a stupid question: under what conditions do you switch off auto thrust ? i saw it in the video and wonder why (because of the wind ?) ? Thanks for explaining and safe travels !
Thank you very much! Actually, low visibility and airport cat c approaches are my only A/THR on landings. I rarely see an A/THR on landing when First Officer is pilot flying. It‘s up to pilot’s discretion what we choose. I do prefer A/THR off at any wind, or let’s say especially at gusty winds. Best regards 🤗
@@PilotWanderlust Fantastic, thank you ! That is really completly new to me, i always thought A-Thrust on is mandatory until special conditions. Something new learned again :-)
@@carstenu.459 Depending on the operator (airline). You are welcome!
Wunderbare Landung in London mit schönen Perspektiven im Cockpit. Habe direkt ein Abo da gelassen!
Vielen Dank!
This is perfectly normal given the visibility and daylight. Happens often, especially at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. Curious, I’ve never heard an A320 call out the US style “twenty-five hundred”. It’s usually “two-thousand five hundred” on the Bus.
Thanks for your comment!
Likelihood is that the aircraft has been leased from (or used to belong to) an American airline.
0:17 you can see Emirates stadium and Highbury from the F/O's front window.
London is a great city! Thanks for watching!
Well done... seems like a stressful place to fly into
Thanks for watching!
Excelente ✈️ ✈️
Thank you very much! 🙏🤗
Lovely landing especially in a crosswind :) did the ATC read out the "land after" clearance twice, or is that just the way the video is edited?
Yes, they did.
@@PilotWanderlust Oh I see. Did you not hear it the first time?
@@spotzidog5110 I did. Honestly I have interpreted it as an information and thought he will give us a „cleared to land“ as soon as traffic has vacated. I knew there is a „land after“ but didn‘t heard it before anywhere. When he repeated I realized what he means and read back. Traffic was about to vacate and had vacated while being above the threshold so it was totally fine for me to land.
@@PilotWanderlust Oh that's interesting to hear your thought process. You followed the correct procedure no doubt. I have read about the "land after" clearance during my PPL in UK recently, but have never been to a towered airport, letting alone landing at busy Heathrow haha. Thanks for sharing
@@spotzidog5110 You are welcome! Enjoy your flight training and many happy landings! 🙂
What did he select after the gear at the lower quadrant? Couldn't see.
Spoilers armed
Very nice indeed.
Thank you very much!
Starke Landung :O
Thanks a lot for watching!
Great video. I wonder what your visual acuity is?
Not that bad 😆 Thank you very much for watching!
@@PilotWanderlust oh, that's the matter, where I live those who want to become pilots must have 100 percent vision, so the way to this profession is closed for me
@@superjet1007 This is really sad! Feel sorry for you because there is no reason for this requirement as long as 100 percent are reached corrected with glasses…
Rest of the world is a little different in comparison to the US. In the US they would “clear to land, number too”, but rest of the world wont give clearance until proceeding traffic is clear. Looks legal to me.
In Paris CDG you will be cleared to land when checking in at tower frequency. Haven’t been there for a very long time, but it used to be… Thanks a lot for watching and your comment!
@@PilotWanderlust You're right it's still like that in CDG
@@TheReverses78 Thank you for the info!
@@PilotWanderlust but also in Paris they frequently speak in French. How do you find that?
@@cyprianair Thanks a lot for watching!
You can frequently see 5 aircraft queued up in the approach to LHR. Must be tricky keeping them allmseperated if very different types.
Thanks for watching!
Flights are handed over at least 4 times between controllers from initial approach STAR to vacating runway. You have the area approach controller who directs the flight to the holding point. Who then hands over to the controller sequencing 'heathrow director' from stack to getting lined up and safely separated. By this time flights are lined up in the famous 'string of pearls'. They are then handed over to tower approach controller who oversees the landing phase then when landed and vacated runway flights are then handed over to ground control for taxi to gate.
@@grahamcrabb7714 Great comment! Thank you!
@@PilotWanderlust when I left school I did want to be an air traffic controller, but wasn't ready to fly the nest! I read up on many books and learnt what I could, even sending off for any info I could get from NATS! I also have a not quite 100% nerdy interest in aviation too (which also helped) and that was all in my late teens! I'm now in my early 50's and keep my interests alive with all the content on you tube and am still learning bits and pieces now, but most importantly I enjoy what I do! I have flight sim and do that when RL work allows. So, yeah whole life story in a few sentences 🤣 have a good one 🛩🛩
@@grahamcrabb7714 Great to read that you keep your interests alive and CZcams is indeed a great platform to learn even more. Enjoy further and best regards! 🤗
When he did the landing checklist he didn’t mention ‘landing clearance’. We can’t hear what was said properly, so I imagine very legal and landings are every minute at Heathrow anyway.
Thank you very much for watching!
@7:15 atc says "land after a320"...
CAA CAP493 Manual of Air Traffic Services Part One :
When aircraft are using the same runway, a landing aircraft may be permitted to touch down before a preceding landing aircraft which has landed is clear of the runway provided that:
a) the runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the two aircraft and there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be adversely affected;
b) it is during daylight hours;
c) the preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to vacate the runway;
d) the controller is satisfied that the landing aircraft will be able to see the preceding aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously, until it has vacated the runway;
e) the pilot of the following aircraft is warned. Responsibility for ensuring adequate separation rests with the pilot of the following aircraft.
Criteria for the "After the landing, cleared to land" in use at Gatwick and Heathrow. Taken from the AIP.
(a) When the runway-in-use is temporarily occupied by other traffic, landing clearance will be issued to an arriving aircraft provided that at the time the aircraft crosses the threshold of the runway-in-use the following separation distances will exist:
London Heathrow and London Gatwick
(i) Landing following landing - The preceding landing aircraft will be clear of the runway-in-use or will be at least 2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.
(ii) Landing following departure - The departing aircraft will be airborne and at least 2000 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use, or if not airborne, will be at least 2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.
@@737simviator Thank you very much for this detailed information!
Pretty wild. I think since it's visual conditions and visual with the vacating, it's fine to land, on the other hand, my god what terrible communications that is. These pilots would have been a million percent justified to go around.
I don’t understand what you mean with „terrible communication“? Pretty normal communication between ATC and pilots… And I don’t see a reason for a go- around as long as preceding traffic has vacated before landing traffic above threshold… Sure, you can always go around or just keep cool and decide what to do a little bit later.
@@PilotWanderlust I'm not a pilot, but I've managed to never hear this in dozens of Europe aviation videos, including several Heathrow videos. I've heard "line up and wait behind", but never "land after". Is "land after" an ICAO standard? If not, then it is terrible communication, reusing a crtical keyword "land" with the more typical landing clearance. If it is an ICAO standard, then ignore both my comments.
When is the "land after" issued by ATC? Cannot hear it anywhere :)
Edit: thanks for the hint, it is at 7:15 by ATC and repeated at 7:18 by the pilots.
Twice on very short final
FO's dürfen bei eurer Firma nicht rollen?
Super Video!
Nein. Danke!
Warum nicht? @@PilotWanderlust
@@tirant_blanc Das gilt einheitlich für die gesamte Lufthansa Group und wurde so festgelegt.
What is the wheel that seems to move by the throttle?
It is the elevator trim
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
@@PilotWanderlust I didn’t understand why it moves.
Great video! One question, at 07:31, why the flying pilot pulled the throttle full back and then he moved it a little bit forward? Thank you!
He selected full reverse and immediately thereafter idle reverse. Thanks a lot!
@@PilotWanderlust Thank you! Safe landings!
@@HORMOVAS Thank you very much!
Is this approach done without a/thr?
Yes, without.
Yes
@@tirant_blanc Correct. Was just about to answer as well.
Is landing without clearance from ATC a violation? Doesn't it put passengers at risk? How does this pilot know or not know if there will be aircraft on the runway during his approach?
Except in an emergency, yes, it is a violation to land without clearance. A cleared to land was not possible at the time a „land after“ was given by ATC due preceding aircraft still not clear of the runway. There was no other traffic and ATC repeated that landing is allowed after the preceding. How can pilots know there is no aircraft on the runway?! They have to watch through the window.
Is this a real flight or is it done in a simulator?
Real
F/O greased it. Nice flare.
Thanks for watching!
it's so funny to see the difference between a busy international airport and our sleepy "international" airport where the ADM checks the runway almost after every 2nd take off/landing ^^
Thanks for watching!
what cameras do u use captain
My travel, planespotting and family/private videos I shoot on my Canon EOS R5C. On the flight deck: iPhone 13 & GoPro 11
Excellent ! Thanks ! And you do some color grading as well I see eh ? :)
@@christodec Correct, FCP and several plug-ins.
Love it all keep it up ! Just let us see full landings if possible and not cut the best parts :) cheers captain if you are ever at lclk larnaka get me in the cockpit and I will happily come full with my sonys multicam for you ! Cheers
@@christodec Thanks for your feedback. In my video analytics I see that most people watch until touchdown, and rarely someone is interested to see the taxi to the gate. This would dramatically reduce the average watch time in percent and this would result in even less recommendations from youtube… There are some videos on my channel that are not cut until engine shutdown but in general I will cut at the point where people still watch. A few seconds more until leaving the runway might be ok. Have a nice Sunday and best regards to Larnaca!
What airline do you work for? In guessing British?
Eurowings. Thanks for watching!
they spoke German between themselves...
What is the aircraft?
A319
no problem the other a/c was off the rwy.."... land after"
Correct
Thanks for watching😁
Glad you liked it 😀
Can the autopilot land in windy conditions
Yes
@@PilotWanderlust don’t mind me asking so much questions I just love planes but if you can. Why cant you simply just
Make your life easier and land with autopilot
@@Airyt12 You can use autoland only within the headwind, crosswind and tailwind limitations. With strong winds and gusts you are often out of these limits to perform an autoland (headwind 30kts, crosswind 20kts, tailwind 10kts). Automatic landings are used in low visibility conditions or in an emergency scenario with smoke in the cockpit (for example).
Welche Dioptrin hast du?
Ich bin nur sehr leicht kurzsichtig, komme auch bestens ohne Brille aus… Die Dicke der Brillengläser täuscht😀
ok ich wollte das wissen weil ich selbst Pilot werden möchte und das wissen wollte da ich auch eine Brille trage @@PilotWanderlust
Dachte mir ein Pilot wird wissen :D
@@Pilot_Elis So lange du mit Brille auf 100% kommst sollte es passen. Früher waren es beim Erstmedical maximal +/- 3 Dioptrien. Ich weiß nicht ob das heute noch so gilt. Viel Erfolg!
Oke danke für die Hilfe @@PilotWanderlust bei welcher Airline bist du Pilot und bist due Deutrsch weil du hier auf CZcams nur Englisch schreibst?
Can't understand them or ATC, muffled.
Thanks for watching and your feedback!
Equipment?
GoPro & iPhone
@@PilotWanderlust no no I meant aircraft, an airbus 320 possibly??
A319
The Airbus computer voice sounds a lot like Jeremy Clarkson.
Thanks for watching!
So strictly speaking, Eurowing and EAA regulations allow land after xxx aircraft even if no clearance to land is required?
I know at Heathrow late landing clearances are usually given at at any large busy airport.
The „land after“ is an option that can replace a „cleared to land“-clearance.
You say they were not cleared to land and the crosswind did not seem that strong. Once they had landed they were given info where to taxi and nowhere in the video did I hear that they were not cleared to land.
Did you hear: „Cleared to land!“ This is the standard landing clearance and anything else like in this case is non standard. A cleared to land was not given due to reduced separation. ATC used a „land after…“ and this is what the video is about! Thanks for watching!
@@PilotWanderlust I couldn't hear anything that was said, I could hear something, but it wasn't clear.
@@groovydonkey A „cleared to land“ was never said. This is what the video will point out. A real life example of a „land after“ where pilots decide if landing is possible or not.
This is the first time I hear "twntyfive-hundred" callout, is that a new thing?
No, it isn’t. Thanks for watching!
@@PilotWanderlust it's correct English, anyway, and it helps for understanding.
No steering column? When didi that disappear??
In 1987 on the Airbus A320.
X-wind?
Affirm
Excuse me for being a neophyte, but no yoke?
No, there are side sticks.
@@PilotWanderlust Interesting. I thought so, but wow, you really kind of need to be ambidextrous. It just seems kind of odd. You get used to flying as FO, then get 4 bars and have to adjust to flying with the opposite hand, lol!
@@molassescricket6663 You get used to very quickly.
@@PilotWanderlust 'You get used to very quickly' - speaking as a passenger, I certainly hope so! 😁
@@davidf6326 Hehe, within first two simulator sessions during upgrade 😀
I thought he was going to receive a telephone number to call
Thanks for watching!
what did i heard? "twentyfive-hundred".......!
Correct
@@PilotWanderlust subscribed! great job.
@@Airbus_a320_lovers Thank you very much!
Why are they wearing crappy headsets....
Thanks for watching
So that they can hear the radio. It's really quite obvious, once you think it through. 😉
@@davidf6326 yeah no shit, I'm a pilot, I meant the brand sucks, those are cheap crappy headsets.
Yes, I knew what you meant, even though I'm NOT a pilot. I was being ironic, but thanks for explaining.@@thestimp1
Isn't that trespassing? Heh.
Thanks for watching!
I get a bit fed up with sensationalist headlines like this one.
Every landing at LHR is "Land after". Same is true at every busy airport. It enables the controllers to keep things moving.
Nothing special about it.
This was my first landing in 16 years without „cleared to land“…
But I agree, it helps to keep things moving. Like this option!
That’s completely wrong however the phaselogy is still the same
@@dublinairportplanes Thanks for watching!
Thre is no such thing as a "legal" landing
Thanks for watching!
I don’t think it’s terribly clever workload management to be doing AP Off ATHR Off into an airport like LHR.
I do not agree
They were given a land-after clearance and read it back. Nothing to see here, pointless video 🙄
With 99,3% likes a lot of people seem to enjoy watching a „land after“ „clearance“. Sorry if you have missed the point.
Seemed pretty good to me; but then I am NOT an 'armchair pilot' that qualified on Microsoft flight simulator to get his flying licence, like so many of the viewers of aviation channels seem to be! 😄😄😄👍👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Ain't that the truth. With all these experts, I'm do wonder how it is that we've got a shortage of pilots 🤔
@@davidf6326 Thanks for your comments, David!