Too Many Bones Review - with Tom Vasel
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Tom Vasel takes a look at Too Many Bones, a dice crafting cooperative game from Chip Theory Games!
00:00 - Introduction
01:17 - Game Overview
11:09 - Final Thoughts
BGG link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...
Find great tables here! www.rathskellers.com/
Buy great games at www.gamenerdz.com/
Find more reviews and videos at www.dicetower.com - Hry
Good Review. I own the game and have played dozens of times with my 3 sons. We love this game!
Yes, steep learning curve. Yes, we don't like the plastic cards/artwork. Yes, we really like the dice and pads.
What makes this game super fun is all about the dice and earning training points. As you "buy" more dice, the options your character has become quite enjoyable. This is where the game shines like few others I know of.
It is great fun to experiment with different builds and see how far you can push the game. Yes, when you change characters, it takes awhile to learn the new abilities, but that makes it feel like a new game for you, which we think is a plus.
After the first couple of games, we never have "1-shot" kills of characters. That happens to noobs and is the result of poor play. Besides that, as a co-op game, it is meant to be tough. We still lose encounters on occasion, but that means the game is a challenge.
No, I'm not a "fanboy", blinded to the negatives of the game; Tom was right about several issues. However, I've spent lots of money on games I've loved, on games I've played a couple times and games I've really disliked. The measure of a game is how often you break it out. We break this one out often.
I don’t think they look cheap at all and not needing to sleeve the pvc cards is awesome I have no complaints about this game and can’t believe someone is knocking the quality when this is probably the only game with no cardboard and every component is high quality.
So many people getting up in arms over the term "component quality." Yes, the quality is good, but you can tell Tom was clearly complaining about graphic and visual design, which is one aspect of the components, and what Tom considers as part of the "quality" of them.
Then Tom should've said that. I don't think his issues with the quality was as clear as you claim. They may've been clear for you, but when a reviewer says that "production quality IS cheap", that's CLEARLY and far different than saying "art design LOOKS cheap". Which is what he should've stuck to if that's all he meant.
bgm 1961 Well said! The production value of this game is anything but cheap! If Tom had said he found the style of art to be unappealing, it would have been understandable. When I first saw the components, it did not appeal to me, but that has changed since I understood the Gearlocs are supposed to be somewhat quirky, fun, and, possibly, eccentric. Once you grasp the flavor of the characters, the art decisions make sense and add to the experience.
Coupled with what is, without doubt, the truly stellar production quality, Too Many Bones is indeed an excellently produced game.
Agree, cheaped out on artwork. Probably still going to buy.
Also, you should really take a look at the version 2 character info sheets, as they layout the die faces and just make understanding each character much easier.
Great review as always
My first impression after seeing a few playthroughts of this game was I wish the cards were clearer and more vibrant. They have that I printed it at home on my printer type of look. Could definitley be better. All other components look really cool.
This looks like a great game, but I agree Tom, the components are great but LOOK "cheap-looking" Also not a fan of the graphic design personally, but It's not game-breaking. Hearing lots of complaining in the comments due to what Tom opinion(we all know what that is, right??) on the components, but he still gave the game a Seal of Excellence and loved the game play and mechanics
The next printing will have a new rule book and some upgrades to the insert, plus some errata fixes. If you have the first printing you can get all the fixes for about $9
I agree about the issues with graphic design...even very small things like why is "Picket," the name of the hero, on different fonts on the player board and the player aid? A pretty basic design concept is to be consistent with font choices, and to limit the number of fonts you use. Makes the game far less cohesive visually. That is just one thing.
For those interested I have a full solo playthrough of TMB on my channel.
Good review Tom. However, I personally disagree about the production / component looking low quality. It's one of the highest I've seen. The premium chips for health get rid of the sample of cheaper health chips in the base game. The production quality is high above the norm.
I purchased the Premium health chips and although the regular ones are great quality and work fine, the premium are at another level all together. I really like the extra weight, it adds a lot to the experience.
wait, for $125 there's still components to upgrade?
Philip Leo Yes. You can upgrade the plastic health chips to the weighted chips if you wish. There are also additional characters, chip trays and a collectors logbook (limited). Like many games they add to the experience if you wish.
This was the breaking point for me. I understand all the goodies you get with the game, but it's just too much.
Jerome Barthelemy That's understandable Jerome. A large majority of board games include expansions which may push people away. However, they just add additional characters to play with. No loss of core gameplay if not purchased.
I RARELY disagree with Tom. But I think this game looks and plays FANTASTICALLY! I ❤ the artwork and i think the production quality is awesome! I cant wait to try out other characters too. I did get the opportunity to play with someone from Chip Theory Games for 2 hours at Pax Unplugged to learn it...otherwise, i would have been too intimidated to try to learn it. But its worth the money and the effort for sure!!!
I bought this game and somehow got my girlfriend who really isn't into board games to love it. There is definitely a steep learning curve but the good thing about it is only one person really needs to know the game. You can kind of teach everybody fairly easily and after the first playthrough most seem to have a grasp on it.
Good review. I've played TMB a lot, and I love the game. It's not really a RPG, it's an adventure game. I like the artwork (entirely subjective), and I disagree with Tom on the components---I think the dice are great, and I love the chips, mats and dice trays. I also love the cards, but the PVC is slippery (tradeoff for durability). Definitely get the premium health chips if you get the game. Tom is right about the time; a full play-through will take a few hours. Tom is also right about the learning curve for the characters---but I actually really like that aspect. And the game is HARD TO WIN. It's a challenge. And players who like a challenge and enjoy figuring out how to spec their characters to take down a particular end-game boss monster (Tyrant) will really enjoy TMB. I KS'd TMB, and could not be happier. And CTG have already announced more TMB is on the way! If you like figuring out specs, and if you like a tactical challenge, and if you like chucking dice, then TMB is a MUST BUY for you.
I regret passing this up on KS. It was around $89 then now you can't get it for under $100+shipping. I think It's $144 or something now. Addon characters extra of course. What I really liked about the KS campaign is that there were no KS exclusives which seem to plague so many KSs of late. There are times that you get campaigns that have exclusive items and won't be able to get outside the KS campaign. Not so with TMB which did the campaign right.
That is never an issue. There are thousands of other equally great games you can play while this one gets a reprint or broader distribution. That will happen if the game continues to receive stellar reviews.
With regard to the "There's so/too much information" complaint - This put me off the game for a long time, but I did a video called "Too Many Bones isn't as complicated as you think" as I wished I'd dived in a lot earlier! It's really not so bad : czcams.com/video/DJwqUDPrWy4/video.html
This game is absolutely fantastic. Glad to finally see a review of it on here. There's something just satisfying about rolling the different dice and messing with the poker chips. Especially if you have the upgraded health chips, it just feels great tactically. The cards feel great, the sheets feel great, even the mats feel nice, it's just a tactically satisfying game all around. Only ever played it solo, but it's a great way to spend an evening (or longer for some of the tyrants!).
Great review Tom, thanks. Finally bit the bullet and bought this game. I've watched many reviews and agree the artwork is a matter of taste but I personally think it looks excellent, I also think those dice look fantastic! (I'll hold judgement on them until I get the game) I like the neoprene character mats and the poker chip idea (not played Hoplomachus) I based my choice mainly on the mechanics, which I find interesting. There does seem to be a fair amount of luck involved with battle scenarios but look forward to learning the nuances of each character. It seems to be more of a 'luxury' game as its costing over £100 sterling (base game) but hope it lives up to my expectations.
Great video, thanks
Our group of four has played TMB a lot and once familiar with the game take 90 - 120 minutes. I think it was intended that it take a while to learn a character, but that is offset by a very rich set of character choices. I also think the production quality is high (and don't mind the art). Ghillie is a fantastic addition if you want more characters. TMB and Gloomhaven are currently my two favorite games and TMB is my favorite solo game.
Very good review. I did buy this game for the "alternative" art and the fun chip play, also I love the dice quality and cards that are unbreakable, I can play this with all kinds of food and drinks on the table and be stress free. Too bad he did not like it, I truly love it, probably more than games with minis, moving dice and chip around makes me happy, and I did not even speak about gameplay. Kudos on the review.
Strange that the main complaint about the game is the quality of its component from a publisher that is mostly known for the quality of their components. I guess it was 1st edition and 2nd is better, because I have 2nd edition and I have nothing bad to say about the quality.
I mostly agree with Tom in this review. Though I'm not a HUGE fan of ALL the artistic choices in the game, I disagree that it seems cheap. My 2 cents... Card art is ok. It's a style choice, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Character art is really good. Dice are neat. Similar to Star Wars Destiny dice in quality, though not as large. It seems that with present technology, if you want crisp art on dice, this is the quality you get. Chip art is fine. The plastic cards should not be forced on players unless you provide a card stand so the piles don't slip around. That said, I would probably sleeve paper cards. Still, I think sleeved paper cards would be less annoying than the plastic cards.
Rulebook needed improvement which I guess it's getting in the second edition (and upgrade kit). Still, the gameplay is highly unique and very fun. Great solitaire game too.
Going to request this one be in the Cruise Library
If Tom is giving out about component quality and dropping points just for that then all Stronghold games should get a 4 or less. As for the component quality is this game I think is very, very good.
It seems he was more talking about looks and not actual quality of materials. Very subjective really. As far as points dropping, he did give it an 8.5 so no complaints here.
So you roll for attacks and such, but the other dice are really just counters for your stat and skill levels. Am I thinking correctly? Still cool.
just the numbered dice in top left corner. Your skills can be counters for consumables or rolled aswell.
Man, I thought the game played pretty quick and the battles were pretty quick too. I love Too Many Bones and I"m going to streaming some live play throughs very soon
I REALLY want to see a dice builder that is lighter weight and shorter (possibly family weight) I love the idea
Look up Dice Forge :)
Quarriors
Do you have a problem with Star Wars Destiny dice, Tom? They are using the same process.
A friend of mine who is really into collecting dice only likes engraved dice, so voices a similar opinion to Tom about the ones in the game. Everyone else who's played has thought they're great. I guess it's a your mileage will vary kind of thing
If I'm not mistaken, I think he said something similar about them. I'm sure they're actually high quality and will last, but they just don't LOOK like they're high quality.
Think of those cheesy bar tops you've seen with bottle caps and street signs and whatever embedded in clear urethane. They're actually built well and will last, but they look chintzy. Compare that to a bar top that's had some wooden inlays or engravings done. That looks way classier. Bar top with bottle caps = destiny/bones dice. Engraved/inlaid bar top = various high quality dice (can't think of a brand name one offhand).
Philip Leo I mean, if given the choice I'd prefer engraved, but there is a lot of information being conveyed in each die face so it would be quite difficult to do with this game. For some dice it'd be possible but not for others, so then you'd run into inconsistencies. In hand I find it difficult to say they feel cheap, but again your mileage may vary.
Is there magic and spells?
I think Tom is spot on regarding the components. They are quality components material-wise but somehow still manage to look cheap and do not pop because of the art and design choices.
I agree. The art and graphic design of the game is what caused me to skip backing this game on Kickstarter. The gameplay looks fun, and I love the idea of a boutique quality game. But, I'm not going to buy an expensive game with art I dislike.
VaultBoy Check them out in person sometime. I think you'd be surprised.
Oren Douek Yeah, the font treatments especially make the game look amateurish.
you are spot on...its mostly the fonts...tho i think tom is also right about the parchment treatment on the loot as well
It's interesting that Tom loved this game (for all the right reasons) yet found the production quality lacking. Let me be clear upfront that his opinion of the "cheap looking" artwork is not my issue. That's a matter of taste and he's perfectly welcome to voice his opinion on how "cheap" the components "look". I happen to agree with him a bit in that regard. But he also said that the components and production quality IS cheap. So that's interesting because Chip Theory Games is quickly becoming known as a leader of production and component quality! Too Many Bones is definitely in the same league as Mechs vs Minions and Scythe (deluxe) when it comes to quality of production. Bash the art style all you want, but the quality of the components is absolutly top rate.
For a perspective which is 180 degrees from Tom's, check out Man vs Meeple's review of this game. They discuss the "insane" production quality and absolutely gush over the dice during the opening minutes of their review.
Otherwise it's hard not to agree with Tom over everything else he said about TMB.
They gush over everything
I like artworks, the dice art maybe could be better
I just saw the reference sheet for each individual character and I was out. I don't want to buy a game that comes with a text book and a semester long course just to learn it. (obviously being sarcastic ... clarifying before someone think I'm serious) ;)
13:21 should be a gif XD
Dice tower has awesome reviews but that opening cut of pouring out the parts on to the table gives me incredible anxiety.
There may be therapy dogs available at your locale...
ahhhh, ya get used to it, I know I did. :)
I watched this Kickstarter and wanted to get this but there were just too many little things that bother me. It's a shame because the ideas are good.
Also.....where is your hat??
Technical, non-game comment
I *love* the fact that you are trying new things rather than just talking in front of a wall of games. The videos you are doing out on the porch with the yard in the background are great. But this? No. Sliver of window and standee sign... gotta be something better. Otherwise, great job as always.
I'd disagree with the art and "production value" as well. The art is subjective and I think it's unique. I think it looks fine and I think it's one of the highest quality component games I have next to santorini and mechs vs minions. But he's right, the games awesome.
I am a bit surprised by his comments about the components. I have a lot of games and this game has the best components I have ever seen. The dice are anything but cheap to me, but to each his own. Certainly a fair review though, and I really enjoy the game as well.
I really don't agree with Tom's assessment of the components. I really like the art work and I think the quality of the components is very high.
The only items that I think could have been better quality are the health chips.
130$ for 125 dice, 5 mouse pads, some cards and some plastic chips is very expensive in my opinion.
The game looks pretty cool. Too bad it seems impossible to find.
I wonder if he really did play the game he was kinda wrong with how the initiative works for the monsters
Comparing the depth to Gloomhaven has me rethinking about this game.
It has a steep learning curve BUT chip theory does a really good job of showing how their games and characters work in video form. You can watch a video on a playthrough and even a specific character right now. Fantastic game
12:10 haha
This is just Escape from the dark sector game
Art is subjective, but it just seems ludicrous to me that he would say things look cheap. Component quality is CTG's thing. High quality game and super fun.
I gave a thumbs up because Tom got the review of the game right and stated that it would be a 9.5 if the component quality was better. I happen to own everything for the game and Tom is obviously dehydrated or something and brain lapsed on the excellent quality of the components and art. So factoring in excellent quality, the rating is 9.5!!!!!!
Tom also compared Too Many Bones to GloomHaven which is off the charts good in his book. Tom loves, loves, loves this game he just doesn't completely know it yet.
No he gave the game his review, his opinion on the components is an opinion that is shared by a few people as well. The review is still great, why does it have to be any more than that?
Dylan, you are right. I am being more tongue in cheek with my comments. I do however happen to think the components are well above average and would be considered to be high quality by a strong majority of owners based on the kickstarter comments. The game is basically waterproof for heaven sakes!!! 😁
He never actually said the components were cheap, he said they looked cheap, which is a knock against Graphic design not quality. And I have to agree that the graphic design is not for me at all which makes these great components look kinda meh to me. But he said the game was amazing so who cares.
Dylan I get where you are coming from. The art style is definitely a subjective judgment on all of our parts. I happen to like it but I understand if you don't. The game is excellent if you like that sort of thing.
Didn't bugler
Woah Tom! How dare you have an opinion! Jeez
Brain'splode...
Glad I passed on this as all of your concerns were thoughts of mine when looking at a possible purchase...thanks for the review, Tom. That being said, prepare for the fanboy rebuttals(I've noticed a correlation between game cost and anger over less than glowing reviews...the more people invest, the more they want to hear 'everything is fantastic'). Clearly it is a good game as you say, but the high cost should bring higher quality.
How is this a negative review? Seal of excellence. Pretty Simple!
William, he said despite all of its faults, he still rates it an 8.5 and highly recommends it during the review. He even gave it the seal of excellence. Did you not watch the whole video?
Glad you passed on a game that Tom Vasel gave an "Excellent" acknowledgement of? A game that he praised for its game play and concepts? He didn't like some of the art in the game. He thought it was complex and had a high learning curve. One subjective, one true, it does require a lot of reading and learning to play the game. This is obvious due to a double sided reference guide that is a full page in size. In the end though, Tom clearly indicates that he likes the game and thinks highly of it. Will it go into his collection? Perhaps not, but whether Tom adds to his collection or not doesn't make it a good or bad game.
It's not a game you are just going to pick up, read the rule book, play once and be happy. It's going to take a few games to get an understanding of how everything works and how your character works. If you are willing to put in the time, then game is amazing. If you are not, then yeah, it's probably not the right game for you.
@Steve4TW...I did. My concerns were with the art and components...which are very much in line with what Tom had to say. Obviously he still feels that the game is mechanically sound, but I agree with him that it is rough around the edges(visually). Considering the cost of the game, I'd not be happy with that aspect of my purchase. For example, I bought Nemo's War which is a moderately pricey game but the art/quality are fantastic...I felt the cost was justified therefore. I also picked up One Deck Dungeon which is great but has less than stellar components...but for $20 I was a little more forgiving. The great thing about this review is that there is something for everyone. For fans of the game, Tom affirms that it is a great game(as one said, seal of excellence). For those who had reservations due to visual choices/components coupled with cost...there is affirmation there as well.
That was the most negative "Excellent game; I really, really love it!" review I've ever heard. Perhaps Tom woke up on the wrong side of the bed. ;) I completely disagree on his assessment of the quality of the components (with the exception of the standard health chips, which as he says are not that important) and his disdain for the art. The art is great and the components are the highest quality of any game I own (okay, perhaps tied with Space Hulk). I suggest you freeze the frames or look up some screenshots of the game elsewhere and make a judgement for yourself. The cards ARE slippery, but they're nearly indestructible, and for a game with such high replayability, that a real plus. The ONLY criticism I somewhat agree with is the ordering of information in the rule book. Not the best, but definitely not the worst. I LOVE this game! If you want an RPG like board game with lots of story flavor, lots of choices, lots of variety (and lots of cool dice!) that you can play in a couple of hours WITHOUT preparation or a game master, then definitely give it a try!
Component quality for this game is absolutely phenomenal!! Tom's reviews are getting more and more ridiculous as time goes on. I only watch his reviews for amusement now.
Pretty poor rules description. What a shame.
A bit disappointed with the quality of the component drop.
I still don't understand the high price of this,game. 125 bucks for the core and eu player can pay a lot more.
Bwort - Neoprene mats, PVC cards, and 136 dice (100+ are unique), and 11.5g high quality poker chips in the core box simply costs a lot to produce compared to your typical board game using mostly cardboard components.. The game has to be made in small quantities due to all of this. It's also roughly 10 lbs, which is why shipping costs what it does.
Bwort 110 lmao You can't justify the money for this game but your profile pic is of a boutique game that's near 100 for super simple components? 🤣
mrmaybe79 not the best comparison, first the quality is top notch and second we talk about a difference of 75 bucks...
ChipTheoryGames so if u trust in ur game and its a very good game, bring it to europe. Europe is the home of the boardgame and I can't believe that there is no big publisher there to produce this gem.
Bwort! Thank you for your comments. We have Bones in Europe via a fulfillment center, GamesQuest in the UK. We are an online only store, so all our games, even in the US, are shipped from a center! For this reason, there is no publisher needed outside of Chip Theory Games for Bones. In fact, most of our sales are from the EU :)
Best components ever and he still complaints. Artwork preference is personal. Rulebook I have to agree, could have been a little better.
Ooh boy I heavily disagree here. I think the components and artwork are amazing. I know art is subjective, so I appreciate your opinion Tom, but I definitely disagree. I am glad to hear you enjoy the game overall though, maybe the art/components will grow on you!
While it is a great game I will say this: it feels like all the design decisions were focused on optimizing quality materials and not on optimizing playablity or user experience.
Sort of like a couch made out of cocobolo wood, goose feathers and heavy silk with a huge print of a beautiful asian princess on it. the print gets swallowed while covering the couch, the cocobolo wood makes it too heavy to functionally move the goose feathers are so soft you get swallowed and if two people are sitting on it they end up smashed together and the silk means you just keep sliding off. maximizing quality materials does not equate to maximizing quality.
woah, the graphic design is pretty terrible in this game. The illustrations are nice though.
i think it looks interesting! But the developers would have undoubtedly benefited from hiring a capable graphic designer.
The layout on those reference cards is atrocious.
Sounds like a worse version of Mage Knight...?
Rate it better if it had better production value?!?! really, I've never seen a game with better quality components in my life.
They're practically indestructible.
The one thing I do agree upon though is the steep learning curve. You have to invest some time in the game, but once you do you won't even reference those ability charts anymore
The hero character design looks really awful. Other than that, looks pretty ok.
Personally this game is a pass for me based on the poker chips alone. Seems way too fiddly.
Personally disagree about the component quality - I think it's very high here. Also, these channels tend not to focus on the solitaire aspect but this is an excellent solitaire game if anyone is interested in such.
How can Tom say the component quality is low?!? The high component quality is one of the aspects CTG is known for. I am litterally shocked. I have over 100 games in my collection and this is one of the best produced games i own. And i agree with Craig, this has become my favourite solo boardgame.
How can he say it? Because he has a copy of the game and an opinion that he explained. Pretty simple.
Craig Kerr Agree here. I actually like the plastic cards because they are more durable. Also the dice are no cheaper looking than the SW Destiny dice. I would change some of the character fonts, but all in all I like the quality...especially if you pick up the upgraded health chips.
It's very clear you don't have a copy of the game. Pretty Simple.
I love how Tom has an off hand comment about component quality...but never qualifies it. What could make the quality higher? Better yet, how would he make it higher without raising the cost of the game? Nice review though. I agree with a few points, the initial rule book was a mess, and the cards are a little difficult to handle. But overall a great game, that seldom leaves my table.
So add miniatures and sell out for looks over the solid game play. Check..okay these guys have just become Shills for KS now. Very sad.
Highest component quality I have EVER seen in a game, especially regarding the dice and cards. Artwork may be a matter of taste, but I really dig it, too. I'm glad you like TMB Tom, but criticising it for its components is absolutely ridiculous.
Oh, and you seem to play a few things wrong. Baddie initiative isn't rolled, for example. The numbers are fixed and printed on the chips.
Criticizing it for its components is not ridiculous. it's a matter of opinion, he still really liked the game why are you up in arms about it.
Ugh... screw this. I'll stick with DiceMasters. This looks like a game made for RPG fanatics who have a lot of time and love LOTS of text, icons, rules, etc, etc. Overthetop... for me.