An Atheist and a Believer Discuss Religious Practice
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2024
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For me, on Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. To each their own.
Daniel Dennett just passed away last Friday 4/19/2024, so perhaps he has more answers to these questions now.
Hope he finds whatever peace and assurance he didn't have in this life here. Same with Mr Hitchens
i had this idea aswell. Praying directs your mind towards certain things. Youre allowed to express yourself clearly without consequence of being judged by someone. Theres a thing in coding called "rubber ducking" where a coder explains the code to a literal rubber duck in order to figure out how to debug things. I kind of want to believe that praying does get heard by something which has the power to make a tangible impact, but then i think "god helps those who help themselves" or the general idea that god acts through people, meaning its better to ask for courage from within than to ask for wishes
To the OP - that's actually a very theological and wise thing to say. You're actually echoing what Christ said on the night before his crucifixion. He was terrified and asked if the Father would remove this cup of suffering from him. But then he realized, and said, 'but not my will, but Thy Will be done'. :)
If you only rely on your own mind for answers, you will never find THE TRUTH, only your truth. Truth must be excavated from reality through effort, curiosity, and continuous skepticism and testing.
I am so happy for Jordan, he has found his God, and is making it known… “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He who believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” God bless everyone.
If you ask there will be answers, if you seek there will be found if you thought you will reveal to you
When I was young I was a true believer and it gave me comfort. I lost faith in high school. Learning more about world history and science made me rethink my beliefs. I no longer have faith and there is no use in pretending to believe since god is "all knowing." Also when you don't believe there is a god the placebo effect doesn't work anymore when you pray. Prayer feels like a waste of time.
What don’t you believe? Is there something about it that you do believe? One thing?
Truth must be excavated from reality. Stay skeptical. Always be aware of your own shadow. Because if you aren’t aware of your shadows, people will find them and use them against you for their own ends. Stories like yours, give me hope for the future. ❤
@@IFYOUWANTITGOGETITAre you skeptical of your skepticism?
@@mchristr I am a skeptic by nature. I am less skeptical towards understandings that provide continually predictable outcomes.
When I see people spell God with a lower case letter I know for a fact that they have never really sat down and study the Bible verse by verse .
I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.
On Christ this Solid Rock. I stand, all other ground is sinking sand.
It’s hitting me so hard that Dennett is gone. I hope that once he crossed over, he met a God so good and so loving and merciful that he knew that the God he had been denying all his life was a chimera and not the reality. And that he is now rejoicing in the love of God. I’m so moved that Dr. Peterson got to speak with him before it was too late.
Feeling very very somber today.
When you see yourself as four bodies, spirit, mental, emotional, physical… then the energy moves from inspiration to a thought, that causes an emotion that allows you to manifest into the physical through your actions.
I thought of you this morning - somewhere amidst ten thousand CZcams videos there is one where you mention not petitioning God for everything; I can't find it specifically. It caught my attention because God has been working with me on a few things which have been difficult for me - He is Lord, Savior, Father, Husband to all of us and manifests according to what we need of Him. (Also, I think this might tie in with your work on 'the world presents itself according to our aim'. So does God if we narrow Him down too much.)
So, I learned of a truth today which speaks to your understanding and approach to prayer, though I do still believe in balancing petitions with bearing up under the circumstances - this is my wrestling at the moment - He is shifting the dynamic of His relationship with me and my approach to Him. Anyway, I know many Christians gave your comments a thorough amount of criticism, but you were on the right track, I just wasn't sure at the time how to explain why. Now I know:
“An unweaned child just makes a fuss when it wants food. But a weaned child learns to wait for it to be prepared. King David said, ‘my soul is like a weaned child.’” -Derek Prince
“But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; like a weaned child is my soul within me”” Psalm 131.2 So David didn’t hound God with all his problems, instead he let the Holy Spirit show him what God wanted to reveal to him *in due time*. Let the Spirit of God focus our attention according to His omniscience instead of being focused on our problems, our shortcomings and insufficiencies, and what our flesh is craving moment to moment. Walk in the Spirit instead of my own narrow focus of things.. “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? …Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..” Romans 7.25 and 8.1, Simply put, living in and being guided by the Spirit of God weans us from constantly asking Him to 'fix' things for us and instead builds fortitude in our souls and in the Body of Christ as a whole.
So then, from Father to Lord.
_____________
I heard Dr. Dennett passed recently. There were many comments about you not pressing him harder during the discussion. Your wisdom, gentleness and discernment were perfect. To everything there is a season. You honored and respected him beautifully.
I know I need him.
I strongly feel a deep relation of these conversation's with Richard Dakwin's disagreement on their last interview. Scary
'prayer preceded thought'.....so thought grew out of prayer? I think the highest form of thought is prayer. Do we pray before we have thoughts? If all our thoughts could be a prayer to God, wow! Well, then, 'One day we were, and then we were not, for God took us.' We can be in such perfect communion of thought and prayer with God that He will just translate us upward into Himself. woooo:)
Where do the answers come from? That's what's missing and I think the word has the answer to this. At least how our answers/thoughts are formed and where they come from can be answered by scripture. This gives me something fun and interesting to do:) So thank you, even though you are on some higher plane for sure, it inspires me none-the-less.
And everyone's answer will arrive to them in the same manner, it's the same process for everyone but we don't all get the same results. It's what goes in that matters, I think. What forms our thoughts which form our actions, creates realities around us and others and this 'other' behind our thoughts can be controlled. It takes continual transforming. I'll find the scriptures.
I do believe thinking is similar to prayer - but I know it's far more than that. Prayer transcends thinking by every stretch of the imagination. Ezekiel wasn't thinking. And a vision isn't thinking either. There's way more to this. The images of your vision aren't your thoughts, your thoughts come afterward trying to make sense of it to yourself, and they aren't as pure as the vision. Thoughts can definitely get in the way of purity and prayer.
'Thoughts transform our goals' - but it's what creates the thought that transforms the goals. It's the chicken and the egg...it's what comes into the human first that determines what and how thoughts will be generated (emotions play into this I think you said, and they do, which is why we cannot be entirely led by them). This whole thing is a mechanism. This is what I was getting at; I won't be able to catch up with you on this, but I think there's a pathway behind the creation of the thought which is the same for everyone but can be cultivated and honed to fine-tune the 'voice of the conscience' thus our aims. If this preceding part of the mechanism is left out, then the rest doesn't function properly. That's why some people say, 'my conscience told me to do bad things, so it couldn't have been God.' And they aren't wrong about that.
And I love what Dennett says so eloquently at 3:24 It's like the scripture, "iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.."
well said dennett
Trust among humans may well have been taught/instilled in humanity by the very first religion.
Doubt/fear have crept in and that unification was split (Lucifer was cast from... Unification).
Later, doubt/fear was physically acted upon (Lucifer was compelled to Dis-unification).
ONE of my favourite songs is ONE by Peter Gabriel, it's called ONE.
P.S.
TRUST yourself to be your own jesus. 💜
This is how the world will become ONE.
When humanity is disappointing, or undecipherable or unpredictable, people turn into religion for some sense of stability. Case in point
STRANGERS clapped all together at the end of the film when we went to the movies, like they do still in Japan.
IMAGINE, if we didn't meet at church but instead, at the beautiful park, walkin' down the street or swimmin' in the water.
What if we didn't raise up our voices singin' all those bum-kissy songs, but instead felt our hearts uplifted for meeting an old friend or someone new.
Could you except someone's charity of paying for your food at a checkout when you found you didn't have enough money. Do you know what it feels like to be the one who helped them.
Well mother f****r's....
This is my church, and you're welcome anytime you LOVE.
Universal Sovereign Citizen.
"When you and I walk down the street, we assume that the people we see all around us, most of whom are total strangers, we assume that they don't mean us any harm." Not sure we can assume that as a default value anymore if one happens to reside in a failed progressive city. Trying walking outside in San Francisco without donning full Kevlar and see how far you get before the bullets start flying.
Same in Germany. We got an insane increase in violent youth gangs over here
Trust is like oil in a engine. You cant find Truth with knowledge. Truth is outside of time and knowledge is time just like thoughts is psychological time. Past- present - future is the minds trap to reach truth in time.
Lets goooo
Trust =/= Faith or Belief
People will tell you things, you can take these stories and their interprtation on FAITH.
OR
One can VERIFY the truth, using TRUST as a foundation.
It depends what your presuppositions are. If you believe that the Biblical account of creation is true, and that God created men and women with consciousness and the ability to communicate with each other and with God, you're going to reach a different conclusion to the person who believes mankind evolved over time apart from God . I'm in the camp that says God created the heavens and earth as described in Genesis. I believe, as it is written, that God communicated with Adam and Eve in the Garden without any barriers before the Fall. After the Fall, sin separated mankind from God, however the separation was not complete. Adam & Eve & all their descendants including ourselves were still able to communicate with God by prayer. And prayer was possible because people looked forward to the Lamb without blemish who would come to reconcile them to God in the Old Testament, and because we worship the Lamb who was without sin who was slain for our sins in the New Testament. Jesus, the only mediator between mankind and God, made it possible to communicate with God, but only if we repent and believe in Him.
Edit: Christianity has always held to the idea that man can communicate with God when the barrier which separates the two, ie sin, is removed. It can be more accurately termed a relationship than a religion.
I do not take this belief lightly. That the creator and sustainer of all that exists (bar evil) actively seeks a relationship with us, sinners that we are, is astonishing.
Jesus said I AM THE WAY, I AM THE TRUTH, AND I AM EVERLASTING LIFE. The only way is through Jesus alone. Search outwards forever, you will get lost in the wilderness. Search inside your own Temple and you will find Jesus and then understand. 😇🕊️🙏🏻
Which god?
Jesus is King of kings , Lord of lords and God of gods . There are many gods but THE God is Christ . Deu 10:17
@@kristenb5177 , Jesus is my brother.
The god of Abraham, is Satan.
@@areuaware6842 Jesus is God . Study the Bible
@@kristenb5177 , He is my brother, he has been with me my whole life.
By the way, the Bible is Satan's book.
God help me I have congestive heart faluire and bladder cancer kasier permente dignosed me with elven years ago and I found out susen Biegiel Drs office on CT scan and MRI scans and memogram came back positive with lymph nodes on my lung and breast ok this why I have burning in my lungs ok and chest pain and susen Biegiel office and Rubin rewise office digosed me with renal kidney disease and kidney failure because I have carsinomia cancer in my kidneys what's causeing the kidney failure at 73 persent not my fault I did not ask for kidney carsinomia cancer not fair me I am sad and feel hurt I want God's healing and I need more disability money because all my critical health conditions I have of cancer I am sad and renal kidney disease and kidney cancer carsinomia I am sad
Listen to near death experiences, we don't die our spirit lives on. I know you may feel angry at my words but we really do survive the death of pur bodies. Make peace with your maker. I pray you get the help you need and want to recieve.🙏🕊❤️🌹
What is your name, first name?
Dude hippie cool.
No. Humans are smart autonomous creatures who will become self actualised and wise organisms. No need for a god.
By the way…. I’m talking crap
"Seriousness is normalised at a level where the one writing from right to left think crazy who write from left to write." This hypothesis doesn't relate to any human and community
Rest in peace, Dennett!
He isn’t resting, he is simply decaying. That’s how he would want us to think of him now.
Decay in perfect entropy, cousin.
@@maxtroylil bro doesn't know what a metaphor is lmao
RIR....Rest In Reason
Heresy
The good will this guy is talking about cannot just be assumed. He has obviously lived his whole life in a country founded on the Judeo-Christian ethos. Good will can never be assumed. We are able to assume it under certain circumstances because of the ethos in which our civilization rose over a long period of time. Does he seriously think this? What planet does this guy live on?
Jordan Peterson, I know (obviously) that you will never read this. But I have been following you since you first came to notoriety when you were fighting the 'pronouns bill' here in Canada. You have been one of my heroes, truly. But now I find it difficult to even listen to you. I don't trust your motives anymore. It's like you're piggy-backing on 2000+ years of Christian thought and now trying to find your own way through, around or beyond it? Or thinking that somehow you can explain it better through your own (limited) human philosophy and psychology? Honestly, I feel so betrayed by you, Dr. Peterson. A lot of people look up to you and have placed a great deal of hope in you. I know you don't owe anyone anything. But I have lost the hope I had in you. Good luck to you, sir. 😢
I think I understand what you are feeling, sir. I have a theory that I am assuming may follow all creative people. Seriously, how many "good" ideas can anyone have? And how can one think they can be "produced" as one might do with, for instance, pots? Mr. Peterson, at first I again assume, did not set out to establish the "entity" that his scholarship and performances have become. I assume, again, he knows this and struggles with what to do about it. I recently went to see him in Chicago and was sorely disappointed that his wife said she would speak for 5 minutes but then spoke for 1/2 hour. There was no time left for audience questions (very disappointing). Whomever "organized" this event did so poorly. I agree that the "God" emphasis is less interesting as we need to learn how to move ourselves, and not think God is going to consistently "move us. " I am almost 80 and I am struggling myself with what it all means, knowing that it "was" before I was, and will "be" after I have gone. What lies ahead is a mystery that I must "man up" to and accept. Does it sound strange that our only "hope" may be that "it" is, for now at least, well beyond us.? There is a humility in that thought that I think might be well examined. But this is not always a pleasant path. Best to you and yours.
There’s another way to think about it if you just stop making Dr. Peterson’s journey all about you and your expectations and your feelings when it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. That reporter had no business asking Dr. Peterson if he planned to convert. Even if he is, if he had said so on the eve his wife has received into the church, the news media would have gone insane and Tammy’s faith journey would have been completely eclipsed by the media circus, and Dr. Peterson would never, ever do that to her. Secondly, being part of a church has nothing to do with being a true follower of Christ or an apostate. Our US President is a Catholic nominally and is no more Catholic in his beliefs and actions than the Buddha. Finally, Dr. Peterson is doing the work of reconciliation that God has called him to do. If he joined any denomination, he wouldn’t be able to have these conversations and build these bridges. And it isn’t that he is going to convince atheists like Dr. Dawkins to convert; only Our Lord can do that. But he can work the soil of their hearts and offer counter arguments that all of those who follow the atheist thought leaders can think about. I don’t think we need to agitate that he exists on the borders of things. He’s out there on the borders because God sent him there to do God’s work and when it’s time for him to come in out of the cold and dark, God will let him know. It isn’t our job.
Unthinkable damage has been done by the atheist movement and I believe Dr. Peterson was called of God to attempt to mend some of it, for the glory of God. It would be nice if you could care more about Dr. Peterson fulfilling his God given call than your own hurt feelings.
@@AFringedGentian Yes, thank you. I agree. Mea Culpa. What you've written here is how I have always seen Dr. Peterson. In fact, I used to wonder if he was already Catholic, but would never admit it because he is reaching far more people, as Bishop Barron says, because he's in a suit and tie and not in a Roman collar. As I said, I've been watching and listening to him from very early on. Even before he was all that well known, I used to say to my family, 'wow, listen to this guy, he's amazing! He's single-handedly trying to save western civilization!' I've been happy to see others join him in this quest over the last number of years. I agree that the interviewer was out of line asking him this question on the night Tammy entered the Church. I guess I truly thought that he was heading towards Christianity - that he had found Truth through all he had learned, studied and experienced.
So then if he's not, then where is he heading? I find myself seriously questioning his motives. I find that, lately, he seems to be veering away from where he was. He's talking about large language models coming up with a conception of God that can possibly 'do away with opinion' (what, and negate free will?). He's talking about AI systems that have been 'trained' on the Biblical Corpus and he wants to play with them and, for example, (I paraphrase) see what it would say about satan for the next 1000 years (as per a recent discussion with Pageau). He asks what happens when God dies - is His Being written into our neural systems? (again I paraphrase) - as per his recent talk with Bishop Barron.
It's like he's 'figured out' Christianity and is now attempting to build a psychology/philosophy based on it, but beyond it somehow. It deeply concerns me precisely because he has influenced so many people. And yes, atheism has done so much damage, as you said, and I really don't like the way he is going. I pray that he continues to meet those on the 'borders of things' and maintains humility. I pray that he heeds his own warnings about what happens when we try to play god and develop our own system of values. Thank you for your response. I apologize for the length of mine.
@@AFringedGentian @AFringedGentian Yes, thank you. I agree. Mea Culpa. What you've written here is how I have always seen Dr. Peterson. In fact, I used to wonder if he was already Catholic, but would never admit it because he is reaching far more people, as Bishop Barron says, because he's in a suit and tie and not in a Roman collar. As I said, I've been watching and listening to him from very early on. Even before he was all that well known, I used to say to my family, 'wow, listen to this guy, he's amazing! He's single-handedly trying to save western civilization!' I've been happy to see others join him in this quest over the last number of years. I agree that the interviewer was out of line asking him this question on the night Tammy entered the Church. I guess I truly thought that he was heading towards Christianity - that he had found Truth through all he had learned, studied and experienced.
So then if he's not, then where is he heading? I find myself seriously questioning his motives. I find that, lately, he seems to be veering away from where he was. He's talking about large language models coming up with a conception of God that can possibly 'do away with opinion' (what, and negate free will?). He's talking about AI systems that have been 'trained' on the Biblical Corpus and he wants to play with them and, for example, (I paraphrase) see what it would say about satan for the next 1000 years (as per a recent discussion with Pageau). He asks what happens when God dies - is His Being written into our neural systems? (again I paraphrase) - as per his recent talk with Bishop Barron.
It's like he's 'figured out' Christianity and is now attempting to build a psychology/philosophy based on it, but beyond it somehow. It deeply concerns me precisely because he has influenced so many people. And yes, atheism has done so much damage, as you said, and I really don't like the way he is going. I pray that he continues to meet those on the 'borders of things' and maintains humility. I pray that he heeds his own warnings about what happens when we try to play god and develop our own system of values. Thank you for your response. I apologize for the length of mine.
@@AFringedGentian Yes, thank you. I agree. Mea Culpa. What you've written here is how I have always seen Dr. Peterson. In fact, I used to wonder if he was already Catholic, but would never admit it because he is reaching far more people, as Bishop Barron says, because he's in a suit and tie and not in a Roman collar. As I said, I've been watching and listening to him from very early on. Even before he was all that well known, I used to say to my family, 'wow, listen to this guy, he's amazing! He's single-handedly trying to save western civilization!' I've been happy to see others join him in this quest over the last number of years. I agree that the interviewer was out of line asking him this question on the night Tammy entered the Church. I guess I truly thought that he was heading towards Christianity - that he had found Truth through all he had learned, studied and experienced.
So then if he's not, then where is he heading? I find myself seriously questioning his motives. I find that, lately, he seems to be veering away from where he was. He's talking about large language models coming up with a conception of God that can possibly 'do away with opinion' (what, and negate free will?). He's talking about AI systems that have been 'trained' on the Biblical Corpus and he wants to play with them and, for example, (I paraphrase) see what it would say about satan for the next 1000 years (as per a recent discussion with Pageau). He asks what happens when God dies - is His Being written into our neural systems? (again I paraphrase) - as per his recent talk with Bishop Barron.
It's like he's 'figured out' Christianity and is now attempting to build a psychology/philosophy based on it, but beyond it somehow. It deeply concerns me precisely because he has influenced so many people. And yes, atheism has done so much damage, as you said, and I really don't like the way he is going. I pray that he continues to meet those on the 'borders of things' and maintains humility. I pray that he heeds his own warnings about what happens when we try to play god and develop our own system of values. Thank you for your response. I apologize for the length of mine.
Bro spent his final days listening to this yapping.
jk i like peterson
What happened to Santa Claus's head?
Too much thoughts
Jordan , Jesus died and paid the price for yours and my sins . Repent with your heart and except him as your savior. He loves you Jordan.
I think he believes that. He knows why Christ died. He believes that by accepting it, and living on its example, he finds salvation. Whether that means he conceptualize that transfiguration of Christ precisely like you or I does not necessarily matter.
You or I may believe that was a physical phenomena. But you or I would only be accepting half if we did. The other half was a Spiritual thing. A changing in that primordial sense God is. God is his Word. He is Spirit. What changed was a Spiritual Rebirth. Jordan at least recognizes that as Truth, and Lives by it.
Jordan at least accepts the Physical Truth too. But perhaps not in the same manner. Though the distinction may not be terribly real either. He at least seems to accept portions of the critical Ritual aspect. That physical mirroring and reverence due Christs Death and Resurrection. He physically treats the Truth of that as if it happened. The reason that the distinction you and I may take, and that slightly subtler one are probably not different, is pretty simple. You and I also can not do more than believe it is so. Take the reality of his Life and Death and treat it as really happened. This despite the fact that we cannot but believe the account, and act as if it happened in all the physical ways and in the metaphysical ways too.
That is a subtlety I think people miss about all this. If you accept it as if it really happened. You deem it as true despite your not having seen it, that is the Faith in question.
Now we can discuss Denomination and manner of Observance. Or not. That is what I think many people mean when they tell him to turn to God. The Baptisms. The choice of which Church Doctrine to call the Truest. The submission to whichever Clergy the individual deems correct. The pomp and circumstance. But that is rather reductive and not relevant to the discussion yet. I think it would be rather pointless and tedious to try it. Especially since the underlying requirement requires the Faith in question first. Usually.
Jordan hasn't done any sins, then why ge died? Also how can he die if he's god?? Sometimes u call him prophet of god Sometimes god....if he's god why he died?? 😂
@@mohit_zala_ignorance is weakness. Educate yourself before you make fun of what is obviously at the moment too much for both your intellect and infantile character to grasp
@@mohit_zala_you have an all powerful being that is the creator of the universe. That being decides to understand its creation better so it decides to become a human for a lifetime. It allows itself to suffer and perish at the hands of fellow humans. Afterwards it redeems humanity of its sin because it understands that it's very difficult being a human. If something as basic as this you couldn't conceptualize then you need to work on your intellect, and you should throw a bit of humility in the mix.
A man died and followers burdened you with a false cost. Freewill is not something that can be taken even by guilt.
I suggest Jordan should split his channel to one about science and another one about god and religion. I really liked watching many of his earlier videos. Now it seems he talks mostly about god and religion. Maybe next the tooth fairy or easter bunny? Sad.
But that's the point. Peterson is talking about understanding ourselves and our world and suggests this can only be done properly at the intersection of faith and science.
Did Klaus Schwab force you to wear that tacky outfit as some kind of WEF hazing ritual?
Daniel, being lied to is a good reason to mistrust.
Is food needed
Oh for goodness sakes enough with the god theories already. Was no god, never was a god
We weren't talking about God, but about Prayers.
"Was no god, never was a God"- what is your evidence for this claim?
@@PRASANTHTHOMAS-hx3nh what is my evidence, well let's see I don't know history, science, philosophy, archeology, critical analysis of the literature itself, the multiple falsehoods produced therein, should I keep going? And prayer to a higher being? You're better off praying to your own inner conscience and listening to that. I'm afraid you need to do some reading there buddy
@@johnkladis4266 "I don't know history, science, philosophy....should I keep going?"
If you don't know all that, then why did you make a statement regarding all these things and claim that God doesn't exist? Or are you believing that without evidence? 🤔
"You're better off praying to your inner conscience"
Ah, we have a word for that: Narcissism. Considering yourself(in your case, your conscience, aka your sense of Morality) as God
"I'm afraid you need to do some reading there buddy"
Well, since you yourself admitted that you lack knowledge in the relevant areas that led you to claim and so are unable to produce any evidence for your claim. Yet you tell me to do some reading? Funny
@@PRASANTHTHOMAS-hx3nh no, chucklehead, you confused when I said. I studied philosophy religion history archeology past political stances political structures. I've studied it all. Including the latest research from Israeli archaeologists and historians who have affirmed that there was no Moses there was no Exodus there was no wandering for 40 years in the desert there was no Battle of Jericho none of it existed. Everyone accepts clearly that the story of Adam and Eve is completely apocryphal. We also know that the story of Noah was taken from The ballad of Gilgamesh written well over a 1100 years prior. Pull your head from your religious butt for 2 seconds and pretend for a moment that there is no God and that we are responsible for ourselves. I'm not asking you to believe that wholeheartedly but I am asking that you give that a try and see how it fits. It's hard to break the habits of that which has been brainwashed into you since birth.
@@PRASANTHTHOMAS-hx3nh and then there is the question of evil. Is God able to stop evil but is unwilling then he is maleficent. Is he willing to stop evil but unable, then he is not omnipotent. If he is neither able or willing then why call him god.
What kind of sick twisted godlike person do you look at who takes the best of men, Job, and puts him through such horrors and treacheries and damnations in order just to place a bet with someone else. Oh yeah and thanks for that earthquake Jesus. Oh and for AIDS and Ebola and all these other diseases that killed millions and millions.
Morals are needed , caution is needed. Consideration and reflection are needed.
Thou shalt not jump in like a clingy thing mindset is needed.