The Kite Shield vs ALL OTHER SHIELDS FROM HISTORY!
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2019
- I have often said that the Kite Shield is the best shield in history, so here are my reasons for that opinion.
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The spadroon is the best shield. The enemy sees it and instantly feels compelled to surrender so they can ogle your blued and gilt glory.
I'll show your spadroon with my MACHICOLATIONS!
But what.... about.... DRAGONS people, we can not forget about the dragons!
I'll hide from all these things in a castle... because CASTLES are awesome! 😁
@@Meet_The_Pyro you can *almost* spell "dragon" with spadroon. WHAT ABOUT DRAPONS.
But what about SWORDS?
Heater shields have the advantage of protecting from cold weather, whereas kite shields can just be blown away by the wind.
That's what the straps are for XD
XD
BoozeAddict but then, through observing the weather, you could use the kite shield to disengage an enemy or closing distance, thus turning a disadvantage into an advantage.
Ya but since it has the strap if you get outnumbered you can fly away on it
@@OliviaLiliana I'd love to do some shield gliding.
I want someone to look at me like shad looks at kite shields.
haha xD
Great Summoner Heronnet like an object?
Priceless!!😂😂
Or how he look at "CASSELS"
Machicolations !!
"When you're wearing full armor, the situation where you want a shield is to protect yourself against those weapons that can offend you"
...
*Gets smacked by a Mace*
Me: Wow, rude.
*dID yoU JuST hIT mE?*
Enemy soldier: "Ur mom gay!!!"
Soldier: "this shield is useless!" *Dies*
I died xD
Gun
"I can't believe that you've done this"
Richard the Lionheart
Each shield was built for a specific purpose. Kite shield is a Jack of all trades, master of none. The "redundant" portions of the Hoplon was so no one shield took a full blow. The impact was spread out to essentially 3 shields which gave the user a lowered chance of injury. Also, the phalanx spears sat in the dips of the shield wall which gave better control and less fatigue. Spartans also wore heavy leg armor that was well suited to handle pretty much anything they would face so their shields didn't need to extend down.
The Roman shields were curved so they could be easily rotated ot off the way enough to thrust out with their swords and be brought back into formation quickly. And with it being rectangular they could be used in the tortoise formation which was highly effective against massive amounts of arrows and even more dangerous items. Romans did an awful lot of sieging so they didn't just have to worry about arrows. Rocks, arrows, oil, all sorts of stuff dropped from walls.
A good analogy to your point is saying we should just use pick up trucks for all deliveries. They're faster, more nimble, can fit in more places, have better fuel economy, can pull a trailer and are cheaper than semi's (lorries).
yeah, I have to disagree with Shad on this one. Im not disregarding the Kite Shield, but to call it the best in history is just like your truck analogy. Also, an opponent with a kite shield vs a roman one, all it takes is a quick sword or spear jab to the legs and immediate disabling. whole lotta good that awkward kite shape did ya there
The scutum was also made to be used from a straight stance, so the soldier would be almost straight behind it and with a slightly broader stance. Therefore you can't cut parts at the bottom away.
@@farmrgalga Earlier Marian shields were more rounded around the edges and a bit wider, yet shorter. However, sometime into the Imperial era, they transitioned to the more rectangular form we're familiar with which is narrower and taller. The weight stayed the same, but the prioritization of coverage likely reflected the threats they were facing. I'm under the impression the later Imperial era scutum was better at blocking things like top-down attacks from axes and falxs, as well as providing projectile coverage in testudo. The straight edges likely made it just a bit harder to attack around though.
His analysis of the hoplon's "extra weight" makes me cringe--the point of the phalanx, and later medieval shield walls in general, is to share and disperse the impact of enemy formations. You can't do that as effectively without overlapping shields. Likewise, the idea with the scutum's full rectangular shape helps to preserve the formation by making ricochets from missile weapons less likely to injure soldiers in the back lines. This was an essential feature of Roman tactics, when the dominant missile weapons for centuries consisted of stones, darts, or bullets thrown from slings.
Also the Roman soldiers were foot soldiers. They did not have the problems to carry a Scutum on a horse. The main army of the Romans walked to the battles. And such a rectangular shield was perfect for their style of fighting. A heavy shield that can be used to push and enemy back while you move forward in your phalanx and while you turned the shield around to stab with your sword. This shield was designed to be used in a phalanx and in a group and not to be singled out on the battlefield and fighting alone. A rectangular shield can be put on the ground to hide behind it and it will be quite stable when hit. A kite shield put on the ground this way will move left and right when hit because only a small tip stands on the ground.
why even bother with a shield when you can just have plot armor
Don't forget the theme song that goes along with that.
it sucks if you're not a main character
the best armor ever made.
Best example of plot-armor failure I have ever seen was Archaon getting kicked between the legs by Grimgor.
@@XaerQwickBlade That was Storm of Chaos wasn't it? Honestly id rather have that than Age of Sigmar...
Consider this:
A dragon with kite-shaped scales. The ultimate lifeform.
Absolute unit
You forgot the pommels for the dragon's teeth/claws/spikes
Send explosives down its throat, very little if anything is immune to both the force of an explosion as well as the heat of one, usually just one or the other, and even less likely to be on the inside.
@@relicking9207 Or you could just throw a pommel at it.
Pretty sure scales are already kite shaped xD
Damm, those kite shields have so many straps that you could sell them as bondage equipment.
Oh my! (Sulu says it best)
😂
😂😂🤣
Goes great with those chain mail bikinis!
"Strap on" now you're talking.
"When you're wearing full armor, the situation where you want a shield is to protect yourself against those weapons that can offend you" Is in many ways a great argument for the hoplon. I love how much importance Shad puts on context, and when he talks medieval period, he tends to really know his stuff. Unfortunately, he often misses the mark on context when talking about the ancient era. Hoplons were the shield of choice used by Greek heavy infantry who typically already had significant armor coverage. Kite shields, heater shields, scutums, etc. were all great at stopping swords and arrows, but your shield arm could still be broken through the shield by a heavy weapon. In contrast, hoplons were laminated with leather between the bronze face and wooden backside to compress on impact which modern impact tests have shown to significantly reduce the impact felt vs these other lighter shields. Continuing with this thought process, the "wasted" size of the hoplon was about making sure that shields interlocked to distribute impact across multiple soldier's arms; so, not only did the shield individually resist impact better, but in a shield wall, there was a multiplying factor interlocked shields gives you that adjacent kite or heater shields do not. If you want a lighter shield more built around profile optimisation, sure, the kite shield makes since, but if you want something that can stop a blunt trauma weapon hoplons were the better design.
Wood vs leather, the backing of metal must haven elasticity close to that of metal otherwise the metal will tear early.
If you want to cushion impact you better put cushions on the arm rather than cushion the first thin layer of the whole shield.
If weapon impact can break my arm holding a shield, the weapon truster will just as well break his wrist.
On the other hand bravo, that's the spirit, attention for small technical details to push your own ideas is what this video is about.
@@2adamast A heavy weapon would not typically break the attacker's wrist do to how the mechanical advantage of front-heavy weapons work. Your weapon has to be accelerated over the distance of the attack arc and decelerated over the arc of resistance. A long handled heavy weapon like a bec-de-corbin, dane axe, etc will have several meters to accelerate whereas the defender will have less than meter to decelerate the attack meaning the force over time is multiplied against the defender. As for hand-shock, the mechanical advantage is in the attacker's favor because the travel difference between hand position and weapon head positions over the arc of resistance is so different.
Now there is the argument that a center bose gripped shield like the kite shield will turn on impact which will often prevent you form breaking your wrist which I did not really consider when I wrote this comment. This makes the kite shield great in a duel, but it's a rather bad feature in battle line where it means every strike against your shield opens you up to an attack from either the left or the right. It is only when the angle of attack does not turn the shield, that the kite shield user will likely break his wrist, but the hoplon shield blocks the impact in a way that you don't have to turn the shield to absorb the impact. This keeps you more protected in a battle line scenario.
The metal->leather->wood lamination is relevant because it works under the same principle of modern non-explosive reactive body armor. The hard metal is hit at a small point, it's rigidity coupled with the leather's compressibility extends the impact to a larger area, then the simi-ridged wood backing uniformly transfers that force to the area behind it. As for you comment, historical depictions also show that the porpax was typically padded with fur which would give that last layer of insulation you brought up. The end result here is that the energy is resisted by the muscle tension of the whole arm vs the focused compression of the small bones in your hand you experience with a kite shield. Also, the weight of a heavier shield also offsets some issues in the form of inertial resistance.
@@nosajimiki5885 I was thinking about the most likely weapon for a hoplon bearer: the lance, when stabbing with a lance it is bound to impact the wrist. Where a sledge hammer and related stuff have indeed a different load but also a different public.
When laminating the advantage of metal (0.5mm) supported by leather over wood is that leather will soak up hide glue, making it a very though and stiff composite. That's a good reason to use it as support layer even if it is totally opposite to compressible support.
I don't see why you couldn't engineer a kite shield with that 'layer' ability, though I agree the hoplon is a better shape for a shield wall.
The problem with your argument is that, as far as I know, greek hoplites didn't really have to face weapons as heavy as those in late antiquity and the middle ages. Hoplite combat was mainly about spear and swords, not about fighting maces, axes and similar weapons frequently.
The hoplon shield was perfect for the ultra dense shield wall style of combat due to the emphasis on pushing the shield of the opponent and thrusting overhand with a spear, not for fingting men at arms wielding maces or war hammers, where energy is focused on a way smaller area and can produce far more damage. I'd say its more likely you'll get your arm broken wielding a hoplon rather than a kite shield, which is far more curved and can deflect energy far better.
I think forgot that the KiteShield++ can also be flown to pass the time between battles.
less bored troop ≃ more enthused fighters XP
Exactly!
Playing with your kite has awarded you bonus experience. (20% rested bonus)
You can even strap a small ally to it and have him scout from a height while you fly your kite shield!
The kite shield is the best because you can entertain children when not fighting.
You just put an image of a Norman knight flying a kite shield in the sky in front of a group of kids in my mind
Best protector- scutum shield
Best for bashing- aspis shield
Best for countering - viking shield
Best for duals- Celtic targe sheild
Best with armor- heater shield
Most convenient- buckler shield
Most versatile- kite shield
In my opinion, every shield is best designed for a specific purpose. I think that the kite shield is the most versatile shield, meaning it can do almost what all the other shields can do, but it won't do as good in the specific task that the other shields were designed to do. For example, the scutum is the best for coverage of the body and for shield formations, the kite shield can do that too, but it won't do as good as the scutum do to some of the design choices to be more versatile and to do more than the scutum can do.
IronyFalseLogical The example photo he used is pretty silly. You don’t stand like that when you are fighting, you would have one foot forward and the point of the shield aligned with that foot.
I actually disagree with his assessment of the kite shield’s efficacy though. Because of the basic principles of leverage, the kite shield is actually fairly poor and inefficient at defending your legs. Once leg armor became available, the transition to the heater shield was very fast compared to similar developmental processes. The kite shield is a lot more encumbrance for relatively little benefit in terms of protection. Even compared to a heater shield of the same weight, using a kite shield will tire you out more because of its weight distribution (like how a three pound dumbell will tire you less than a three pound sword). And as to strap versatility, heater shields were known historically to have the exact same strap system.
'Best for countering - Viking shield' 100% correct, BUT war, Battlefield and Duling are all won by one thing "countering". The best offense and best defense is countering every move with one of your own, Thus Center Grip Round shield IS the king. but not the winner of every category. BTW, i think the center grip aspect makes the Viking shield better than the Targe in Duling, although i will admit, it will require a more skilled Fighter for sure.
The most versatile shield is your forearm lol. Probably more people throughout history have used that shield than any other
@@jek__ I would call that either the most common shield, or the default shield.
The police issue riot shield is the best! It has a window! :D
Forget who but someone took the material the use for those and made a shield with it works pretty well actualy
But does that window roll down or comes with wipers? That is the question.
@@neonshark6972 imagine in battle just quickly rolling down a window in your shield attack them close the window then clean the blood of the window with window wipers
And a door!!!
@@fatpenguin0089 police shields (riot shields) aren't used in combat. The only shields that are, are ballistic shields. Solid metal or other materials, with a very small window.
The scutum protects from people stabbing AROUND the shield which, seeing as the Romans were commonly out-numbered, could be a hassle. The kite shield is very thin at the bottom, meaning people could most likely manage to stab around the shield and hit the legs of their opponent.
It is difficult to hit the legs and easily countered in a one-on-one scenario. However, you do have a point when it comes to formations. I would agree that the scutum is the best shield for formations, but the best shield for individual fights is the Celtic Shield.
Yes! Exactly this. And it's not even necessarily about being outnumbered; quite simply, close up formation fighting will mean multiple enemies will be able to hit you from wildly varying angles, some of whom will get around the kite shield. No shield protection is "redundant" in that context.
Also, Roman soldiers were often unarmored at their arms and legs, which sometimes caused them trouble especially when fighting people that use weapons that are specifically made to get around the shield. Like the Dacians and their falx.
A Roman shield doesn't protect you from an attack from behind. And striking the legs with a kite shield not possible if you hold the shield out at arms length. Cutting the leg is a dumb move anyway as their arm will be in range long before your legs are. Kite shield wins.
@@buddythebeastman Well, if you're in formation and several attackers are hitting you from several directions, scutum wins.
Shields are all based on tactics. Both shields you compared it to were unit based shields.
When the kite shield was introduced, warfare already evolved to smaller quicker formations.
Plus it came from a completely different outlook on tactics. So hard to say. An opinion argument is hard to win. Cool info tho.
Evolved in meaning of "No one at the time had money to make a professional heavy infantry based army"
@@viktorvlasov483 exactly. There just wasn't enough man power, money, or even supply.
The context is personal defense he says it somewhere at the start
more like devolved into smaller scaled warfare with emphasis on raiding supply lines and capturing fortifications
The Roman and Greek shield were designed for a very specific fighting style compared to the kite shield which was just designed to protect you from being killed.
The Hoplon can be used as a sleigh because they are round and have straps. That way someone can strap their feet to it and just slide down
If the kite shield is more versatile to use on horseback, it's really the only advantage it has over the scutum. The scutum is the king of infantry shields. What you see as "redundancy" in how much the scutum covers the legs is actually a huge advantage in combat: you can't move the tip of the scutum aside. Behind a scutum, you need practically not move to defend, basically just lower it a bit to protect your feet, or duck behind to protect your head, even if your opponent's got a spear. While the extremely narrow bottom of the kite shield can be easily moved aside, and just a bit of poking here and there opens an alley to one or the other of your legs.
Also, because the scutum basically hangs from your shoulder, your arm nested in the curve of it, your hand firmly gripping the solid maniple, you have excellent control of it in every direction, while the soft strap arrangement of the kite shield allows it to twist and move around, and you only have relative control of it, and actually very few of the bottom tip, especially against blows that will push it aside.
And third huge advantage of the scutum: you can punch with the bottom edge of it, putting all your body mass behind it. It's a skull-cracking type of "punch", and can easily throw the opponent off balance. If he's got a shield, you can basically break his nose or teeth with its own brim, with such a powerful blow, and very quick to deliver and recover from.
Gladiators and legionaries have proven it's excellent both in solo, and in formations, against a huge variety of enemies and threats. The Scutum is the Master Shield, period.
I compleatly agree. The curve also protects you from multiple angles aswell.
Disagree; the Roman Scutum is the best infantry formation shield. But, individually, the Celtic Shield is the best. It protects just as much area as the Scutum while being more maneuverable and versatile.
Plus, the scutum was derived from the Celtic Shield and optimized for fighting in formation.
@@matthewmuir8884 when you say celtic shield which do you mean? They had many types. If you refer to the flat rectangular one then I would say that the curve of the scutum is more than worth the increace in weight.
@ben silk I'm mainly talking about the oval-shaped ones and the rounded-hexagonal ones, but really any of the larger versions.
The curve in the Roman Scutum increases passive protection, but it is somewhat restrictive in single-combat. The Celtic Shield is just as large while being lighter and easier to move around.
In the rare but still documented instances where the Celts were able to force Roman armies into forested areas where the Romans had to fight as individuals, the Romans lost. Part of this is definitely down to the differences in culture and training, but I would say the differences in shield design definitely played a small role.
Sorry but the main reason roman soldiers lost in fight where there was no formation is that most roman soldiers where outnumbered in those Situations.
I used to be a warrior like you but then i took an arrow to the knees because I dident use a kite shield
Actually, that's probably one of the only disadvantages of a kite shield: limited lower-body protection from shallow-angle ranged attacks. Not a very likely thing to have to defend from, so not a huge problem, but it is something to keep in mind.
@@polyjohn3425 oh ok
@@polyjohn3425 Actualy the most common injury in ancient and medieval battles were leg and arm injuries, because the rest was so much better protection. I consider the scutum the superior shield for formation infantry use. The kite shield is better on horse.
Elder Scrolls NPC comment! lol, Yes!
"The kite shield is better than every other shield in history"
*Only uses three examples*
Still great video, very detailed yet concise.
Enemy: *knocks my weapon out of my hand*
Me: *spears their foot with my kite shield*
Also me: Oh I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?
Is that before or after he breaks your jaw with his buckler shield?
Ha! Enemy laughs, courtesy of crude iron Gotland sabatons. Better luck next raid. Silly Saxon.
@@The_Lone_Outlaw also kite shields were rounded at the base to prevent the stabbing of ones own foot ha
2000 iq strat
Anakin! Control your insolence! The count is concentrating :D
This is all redundant anyway as we all know from the great scholar known as "Hollywood", a sword will just LIGHTSABAAA straight through the shield like a knife through butter, then through all layers of armour and flesh and back out the other side. ;)
@@malahamavet Oh definitely, I don't know why they didn't just give everyone two swords and kilts in all honestly. They'd have been invincible and would have conquered the entire world forever!
And don't forget that gambeson is clearly inferior to all forms of armor, and that jumping while fighting actually helps
If it's a damascus-steel katana, then yes it will slice through any shield, even metal shields. Puny euro-style swords though, you're right, no chance.
@@blitsriderfield4099 And that studded leather is the only type of armour. Studs must be everywhere!
Not to mention, that sword is probably wielded by a 140lb female warrior, right after she blocked an overhead ax strike from a 250lb warrior
Shad Facts: Thanos tried to snap Shad out existence. Today he is only remember as a comic book character.
@Thomas Seppala No he didnt. Chuck Norris doesn't wear gambeson
Shad is a comic book character?
@@KanaiIle No Thanos is only remembered as a comic book character
@Thomas Seppala Nothing. It's just a joke to stroke Shads and our egos, like everything about Shad facts.
Thanos forgot one very important question: what about dragons?
I don’t like shields, they just slow a Witcher down.
Monsters usually don't shoot arrows which is why a Witcher can get away without a shield. Most people think ranged warfare is a good idea.
@@dkcartw Some of them do throw rocks.
the irony of the witcher sword in monster hunter being part of the "sword and shield" category (the shield is just magic forcefield). still somewhat true tho since the blocking is so slow and cumbersome (pretty much stand around waiting for attacks like you're playing an oldschool fighting game, instead of parrying between slashes) that you'd be better off just dodge rolling instead, tho im pretty sure this applies to the entire category, not just that specific weapon. playing the Witcher quest was painful as a dual blade user and made me despise sns.
During sieges, the romans formed ramps with their shields and had their comrades walking over them. That is simply awesome. Of course you don't use them on horseback, any roman would know that
I heard that they had chariots ride on these formations.
@@thatoneguy7603 I heard they did the ramp formation against walls and then had war elefants run up and storm enemy castles
I heard they occasionall built spontanious stage formations and had irish slaves dance the riverdance on top
I heard even your mom would be able to walk on those formations, which was very surprising
9:04 "you can get rid of useless weight that's not doing much to protect you."
>Shows picture of kite-shield not covering 80% of their legs.
:thinking:
No one would stand with a shield like that though
@@breaden4381 Yeah, but I just thought it was funny that the pictures he used as a demonstration actually made the scutum look more effective at protecting oneself when he's arguing the opposite.
Y'all really be thinkin knights just gonn squat down on the battlefield to swing at ya bois legs be like "ya hawd ya last yee"
No need to squat with a polearm
Fair point but I wasn't serious
I'd love to see Shad make his own unique shield using his knowledge in this field. Gear Greek Gadget Guru made a sick deployable shield using a worm gear, I'd fangirl so hard if Shad did something similar haha.
Again, another masterpiece of a video!
I feel like shad would go through 12 iterations of design to just end up with a kite shield at the end.
@@brodieknight772 maybe a kite/scutum hybrid
I've always wanted to test this one weapon setup idea: it's basically a combination of a rajput patah and a miniature kite shield, one in each hand. To understand this concept imagine two hoplite shields with sharpened steel rims, then modify their shape into that of a horizontal kite shield so that you can thrust with them. Have I communicated my idea adequately?
@@benthomason3307 so you want punch daggers with shields attached?
@@christopherdubus6769 almost, but not quite. There's about an arming sword's worth of blade length.
Let me try phrasing it a different way. Take what shad's demonstrating at 5:35, and rotate the shield 180 degrees. now shrink the shield to a bit bigger than heater-shield size, and add blades along the edges. now put another in the other hand
You forgot the most important part when picking a shield: the A E S T H E T I C
Personally, I'd rather have a good old fashioned human meat shield. It's self portable and you can have it scream out war cries for you. Unless it's just normal crying. Or dead.
But then that human meat shield becomes useless since the flailing limbs are easily hacked away by enemies swinging swords, and the meat shield is increasingly reduced in size per hack by enemy sword.
Ha yeah, the best shield is the infantry themselves!
It's not the best shield because it's shads favourite, it's shads favourite because it's the best shield!
And this loop will never stop lol
Well, yeah
but what about dragons?!!?
A kite shield probably wouldn't protect a dragon as efficiently.
That's when you want to use an energy shield
He says the Kite Shield is the best, but his Logo is a Heater Shield.
Traitor! 😜
His logo is an escutcheon.
You can't fit a kite sheild on a logo
Guys it's just a joke calm tf down
This is the Heater Shield gang
We appreciate your comparison between kite and heater shields without being toxic.
Sincerely
Heater Shield Gang
Yes yes but what about dragons?
Anti dragonfire kiteshield. Doh~
Well timed
The german name for the kite shield is "dragon shield". So we have this one covered i guess.
I did a bit of pissing about with Norman style equipment for a few months last year when I was trying out reenactment, and I found from that bit of testing that the most comfortable (and possibly most practical) kite shield grip is actually the diagonal one. Vertical grips are a pain in a shield wall and when you want to cover your legs, as you have to twist your arm at a funky angle to try and cover yourself, while horizontal grips have a slight habit of causing people with gibbon arms like myself to expose elbows and arms at the side, bits that aren't particularly nice to have thwacked with a sword.
Also if you have a Horizontal Grip and someone launches their body weight at you, your own body mechanics work against you. If you are strapped onto something horizontally and you need to move it closer to your body the only way your humerous can go is pretty much down. Which in turn exposes your shoulder for the over arm stab. With a Diagonal grip you can collapse a shield right in to your body without exposing yourself.
With the scutum, I believe it was designed to allow coverage while swapping out soldiers on the combat line.
Actually, it was (and still is, technically, just look at riot shields) the de facto formation shield. A formation of scutum has almost 0 vulnerabilities, and any vulnerabilities that exist are in the back of the formation, which means only surrounding them would do any good, and even then the back line can turn around.
@@ebonslayer3321 what about for advanced personal protection? Like let's say your a shield unit for a squad and your getting barrage from multiple angles. Wouldn't a shield designed like a scutum or curved tower shield be most effective at protecting you and your allies? What kind of shield would be better for that?
A quick question: Which shield conquered most of the western known world for more than 1000 years?
@incinerator950 Than why didnt the celts conquer the Romans?
Walter Bezerra your damn right lol I've always been a fan of the scutum and the hopolite shield for that matter which beloned to the worlds greatest army the Spartans, well till the good ole USA became a thing lol
Because there weren’t really very many of them. It’s also important to note that the Romans never conquered the celts either
@@conor5681 There were many Celtic Tribes and peoples, they lived in modern day Spain, France, Turkey, England and scottland. The Romans conquered all of them except the One in Scotland. Which celts are you refering to?
Walter Bezerra They never got the Irish ones either actually. But I wasn’t referring to any specific celts though, and I didn’t express my point well, you actually did a better job of that. The celts were scattered, divided and small tribes while the Romans were a large collective population. This fact had rather a lot more to do with why they conquered (a fair amount of) the known world than whatever shield they were using. Roman military equipment evolved over time, but it was never the key to their success. It was the men, their organisation and their state of the art road network which actually mattered.
“Who needs a shield when you have alcohol?” Some Irish king probably
*drunkinly raises claymore*
Fantastic joke btw xD
Literally just the Irish in general*
"Lets see if your fancy shield saves you from my car bomb."
Shad you should take a look at different types of shields...the history of shields is far more diverse than the ones you already covered quite extensively and very in-depth.
this isn't a criticism, you haven't covered all of Europe's shields, let alone the global diversity of historical shields, it could provide a lot more future content.
I don't think you ever covered Jousting shields with their unusual shape, crescent-shaped pelta shield, the ancient near east Dipylon shield, the Moorish Adarga...african kite shields.
the history of shields is so diverse it can fill a whole year worth of content.
For example there are peculiar shields like the russian tarsch and the italian targone(with the design that makes him usable as a club)
Yeah, where are the peanut shaped shields? Ò.ó
So a video about "exotic shields" (meaning "unknown to mainstream")? Would like that, because some shields, like the dueling shields or Kalasag (found the name just now when googling "forked shield") look interesting. Even if they serve the exact same purpose, the differences in design, material etc are still interesting enough to justify a video, I think. Not asking for the japanese shields, because Metatron already covered it long time ago.
Or if I may be greedy... A series on shields, each episode covering a different geographical region?
That sounds like a series waiting to be done.
Just to add to the list: Celtic Shield and Targe.
I would like to see a video about the difference between historical and fantasy "tower shields." If there isn't one already.
- the kite shield directly evolved from the oval scutum
- arrows dont come at an angle,they ware shot straight
- the kite lost favor with the advancement of armor
Arrows are indirrect fire weapons; they don't come in straight, they come in an arc. As for coming in an angle, I guess that depends on if the enemy is flanking you or not.
@@jeffbenton6183 no,thats a myth.lt doesnt depend,to work arrows need to be shot at close distance and straight,otherwise with arc they wont have enough penetrative power,they'll just bounce from the armor and the accuracy is lacking and even in a volley,the is bigger chance of missing the enemy
@@catch_me_if_you_can6596 Umm... Source? Also, have you ever actually shot an arrow?
@@catch_me_if_you_can6596 mate, not sure how to tell you, but there is a thing called physics.If you shoot straight, your arrow would arch towards the ground. To get a 'straight shot', aka normal to the surface corresponds to the trajectory of the arrow, you need to fire at an upwards angle, adjusted for the distance. Also, considering the human body is curved itself (damn sexy) and the armour curves around it as well. So a perfect 'straight' hit is an unlikely shot even at like 10 m against a moving target. So, better shoot at an angle and get some range between you and that angry dude trying to kill you (isn't that the reason you are using a bow in the first place?) Now, nobody is saying shooting at high balistic angles, pointing your arrow at God, cause he's going to feel offended and you will mess up your shot, but you should aim somewhere between 10 and 50 degrees from horizontal.
It's kind of stupid to compare the kite shield with the roman scutum.
They are made for very different scenarios.
The kite shield is the appropriate shield for soldiers in full armor, but the scutum is part of a specific weapon system.
This is kind of the same with the Roman Gladius: It is far from the best possible sword if you are only comparing swords but it is far superior in its special role together with the whole roman system.
Roman legionaries do not wear leg protection and therefore they need appropriate protection for their legs. A kite shield cannot fulfill that role perfectly; soldiers does not stand in a battle with legs pressed together all the time, hiding behind their shields ... but fighting, marching and maneuvering around.
And it would not cover the sword arm of a short sword fighter adequately.
It would be completely stupid to equip a typical roman legion with kite shields.
Actually it might work because the thin lower part of the shield is wide enough to cover a leg and romans and most melee combat has one leg in front rather than 2 legs. However I do agree with the fact that the scutum would be Better because it allowed the romans to cover the whole front with shield while still being able to stab with the gladius, in which the thin part of the kite sheild would be at a disadvantage because there would be gaps between shields and interlocking shields would force the soldier to have to use his gladius over the shield
I don't think Shad compared the Scutum properly, as he only compared the Roman Scutum. A much closer comparision to a Kite Shield is a Iberian/Celtic Scutum, as their not as wide as Roman Scutums and are actually similar in size to a Kite Shield.
Thank you god, i'm so happy you have sense about this. I fully agree, BRAVO. Nobody had war down to the science and strategic advantage through organization like the Romans did. Bravo brother. Roma aeturnum!
@@kainalucarpiocuico5833 i think it's aeterna, nominative.
But i could be wrong, my latin is a little bareboned.
Melt You won’t be perfectly sideways in combat. You’ll still have your legs apart. So that tiny inch or two of shield at the bottom won’t do shit to stop an arrow/spear from stabbing your right leg.
Kite shield I believe was meant for cavalry, not for infantry. I’m not a historian, I’ve just heard that somewhere. But the shape makes that statement make total sense.
7:12 the roman scutum didn't evolve from the hoplon at all. It was adopted by the Romans from the Celts. infact the word scutum could have originated from the Celtic word for shield.
Indeed. Thanks for pointing that out. People tend to forget the influence the Celts had on the Romans for some reason. The four-pommel saddle: Celtic; not Roman, the Roman Helmet: The Gallic Helmet of Rome (it originated as a copy of a helmet used by the Gauls), etc.
Also, for Shad to convince me that the kite shield is the best shield, he's going to have to prove that it's better than the Celtic Shield.
@@matthewmuir8884 If I'm not mistaken, they also got the Lorica Hamata from the Celts as well. I suspect that people forget about the Celtic influence because a bunch of it came through the Etruscans, who are also frequently forgotten.
SonofSethoitae That is true; the Romans did get the Lorica Hamata from the Gauls. The extra layer of mail over the shoulders was a Roman idea, but that was the Roman way: rather than be creative, just take someone else's idea and optimize for their particular approach to combat.
So, the Romans were basically Apple?
@@matthewmuir8884 didn't the Romans get the Spatha from the Celts later on too?
Mate as long as you have dragon on them any shield is automatic victory.
But, what if the other team has a drgon too?
Nobody can change my mind that heater shields are the sexiest
Well I would say that the scutum is better in formations as it leaves less of a gap between the soilder compared to the kite shield. where if you have a shield wall of scutums it's hard to find gaps between the shield but if you have a shield wall there will be gaps between the soliders legs. So I see a weakness there.
That's what leg armor is for :3
It's also surprisingly difficult to shoot an arrow at someone's legs from a distance while also having people fire back at you.
There's a lot of factors to account for when determining which item is best, too many in fact because there is no single "best" shield as Shad said near the end of the video, where the Kite shield may be superior in one field, another may be lacking there and vice versa.
@@SlimJimApproves Yes but I just pointed out a weakness I saw in the kite that the scutum compensate for
I always thought kite shields looked kinda goofy. But now I understand why they're shaped like that. Thanks!
*8:51* But look at the big guy in the middle! The kite shield doesn't give him nearly enough coverage vs the scutum.
Even though he has tiny legs he is still extremely exposed. Even when shad throws the kite shield extreme soft balls he still shows how bad it is.
you forgot to mention ;
-an oversize kite shield can fly you out of a battlefield ;
sure it could .............
what a fresh comment
It is 6:30a.m. where I live, and I am glad I am awake to have Shad bestow his wisdom on me.
Essentaly it is the best because it is a jack of all trades master of none, which is better than master of one
I do not fear a man who trained 1000 styles 1 time but a man who trained 1 style 1000 times
@@maximichels9340 While I get the saying; the large amount of overlap given most styles of combat (human anatomy doesn't change much no matter where you are) I wouldn't want to step to either without training of my own. All that said that's really only about three years of training on both ends, so someone who has been relearning the basics 1000 different ways might actually have an advantage over someone who is still trying to master more advanced methods with a shakier base. (falling into the trap of trying to show up your foe or force a recently learned technique is a common failing of newer students).
@jon dw But what about someone who is a master of say six or seven related trades, where you are a mere journeyman of many? That is why I feel the Scutum is superior because if you watched the video, the kite-shield is clearly inferior at providing leg protection, especially in a 1v1 fight, which any warrior worth his salt knows he will end up facing sooner or later. The Scutum is just better, both for single combat and phalanx combat, as an infantry shield.
The kite shield is supposed to be a cavalry shield, with the option of going infantry, if needed: but that doesn't make it better as an infantry shield than a dedicated and purpose made infantry shield.
Need proof?
Look up police riot gear.
Which of the two styles survived.
"You can cut out the useless weight protecting your legs because they're a smaller profile than your upper body." -- Are we forgetting how *walking* works? o.O;
Its obvious he just has a kite shield bias. He ignores historical context and soft balls scenarios for the kite shield
when exactly would you be walking when someone attacking you? or loosing arrows and bolts at you? warfare ain't a walk in the park, someone is trying to murder you and you instead of staying put, shield in front, blocking the incoming blows and retaliate should the moment arrvive?
@@Cloudy-qb4ri when you are advancing.
@@casematecardinal arguably redundant. if they're lobbing blows at ya then you don't march, if they're loosing arrows at ya then the arrows can't hit your legs from the upper angle, only when the infantries are super close might the archers try to shoot straight into their legs, and even then it isn't even that easy. they might put some guys down, but by then the infantries would be so close that melee is bound to happen
The width of the Hoplon was used to conceal the wearers sword arm so his adversary couldn’t easily telegraph his attack.
I just noticed, the _"back rest"_ of your chair was once a *KITE SHIELD.*
Eiszapfen der wütenden Winde oh shit...
Cheeky bastard
I think the Romans needed the extra width in the legs to compensate for the lack of lower limb protection (only grieves). People using a kite shield most likely had at least mail, which would cover the extremely vulnerable thigh and groin region in the event of a blow glancing off the shield. Comparatively Romans were extremely vulnerable and I can imagine that extra width being insurance against a heavy blow that glances off the shield toward the body.
Different shields for different times, although I do find it interesting that ballistic shields are the shape they are.
Most legionaries didn't even have greaves. Only centurions were routinely issued them.
Timothy Anderson I imagine the main reason ballistic shields are shaped the way they are is that they weight basically nothing compared to medieval shields, so there’s really no reason not to have some redundancy so long as its size doesn’t get in the way.
@@Gormathius A ceramic ballistic shield (The kind used by SWAT on a breach) that is rectangular is typically in the 40-60 pound range, so not sure they are lighter.
Timothy Anderson really? But they look so light!
@@Gormathius Riot shields and ballistic shields are two different things. Full length riot shields are a clear polymer, and designed to protect the user from thrown objects and to a lesser extent, molotov cocktails. A ballistic shield is opaque, rated to stop handgun rounds and resist rifle rounds, and is much heavier. They're also not meant to be held for too long, whereas a riot shield could be held for hours.
Having watched the Macedonica V reenactors practice with the Scutum, I do remember several defensive moves you cannot pull off with a kite shield due to the pointy bottom. The one that comes to mind the most is a spear thrust towards the feet where you aggressively lift your front foot in a step forward bashing the bottom of the scutum down on top of the spear. I imagine that move would not be viable with a kite shield for example. However all other points lifted by Shad does indeed make sense!
This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for as far as heater vs kite for heavily armored knight vs more of your common foot soldier.
While I'd agree that the kite shield is indeed a great pick for individual combat, I would be more hesitant with regards to formation combat. From what I can see, "redundant" protection from shield shapes is not really redundant when in battle. For example, during the Othismos (the Greek charge and shield-push that started all formation battles) not only you need the shields to overlap so that the enemy push faces a solidly connected, "locked" wall; in the frontline you will be facing at least three potential spear points capable to reach you from the guys right in front of you and at least 6 more from the guys at the sides. These points, being so up close/so lateral to the direction you're facing, can be angled in ways that will surpass the protection of a kite shield; moreover, if you protect yourself from one enemy blow by moving your kite shield (eg. rising it on the head) you will leave the lower body exposed to oblique lines of attack by spear point.
And same goes for the Roman scutum, really. Or the Celtic shield. Or the Persian shield. Or the Indian shield. None of these people loved carrying big useless weights; they just needed protection in very up close melee formation fights, where blows could come from very different angles, and many of them favored shield "redundant" protection over armor protection.
*What about the pavise?* I would not want to try use a kite shield with a crossbow. *And what about from the view of a fantasy setting?* Historically the kite shield may have been very useful but against a small opponent (goblins, dwarves, gnomes etc.) would be almost useless. Your legs would be very easy targets for them due to their smaller height and the fact it is narrower on the bottom. In this instance, i would prefer a ‘tower’ shield. Or, against a dragon, i would prefer a shield that covered as much area as possible rather than one that covers only my body and no more.
not really you can anchor a kite shield down on the ground and still fight effectively.
Gwaether Bloom Do you have any reference for this? Personally i’ve never seen or heard of a kite shield being anchored to the ground. I would not have thought it would be best suited on the ground as, unlike a pavise, it was not designed to stand freely. Besides, i doubt you could still fight effectively as now your first line of defence (which was made to be mobile) is anchored to the ground. Yes you could still attack, though your fighting style has to drastically change and you can no longer close the distance between you and an enemy safely.
no as in you anchor the bottom of the shield while you are still using it... it's a long shield and it can be done and you can still fight from that spot easily.
Gwaether Bloom Oh right, i understand what you mean now. I thought you meant to stick it into the ground in some fashion which wouldn’t really work too well in my view. However, i think my point about smaller opponents still stands because the shield gets more narrow towards the bottom, where their weapons are. Against a human opponent the tapering is not a problem as they can’t reach your legs as easily though against a goblin, this would be a huge disadvantage. The goblin could more easily attack your feet as they are not as protected by the shield due to the kite shape. Meanwhile, because they are shorter than you, it is much harder for you to reach them, forcing you to be closer and allowing them to attack you even more easily.
@@liammorris9372 true but remember you stand with this shield generally one foot in front of the other, and probably have a Lance or spear type polearm. Fighting small humans , even isnt too bad, when you anchor it lower down
I’m making a list of things to get for a more realistic knight getup, and thought the kite shield would be cool, but wasn’t sure about actually going through with it. Thank you Shad for giving me more confidence in the shield.
Just looking at the two pictures you have where they’re forming shield walls I definitely see more gaps when done with the kite shields due to their shape. If tryIng to breach a settlement wall where arrow fire is coming down not just the front but at angle from the sides, got to say scutum is the better option.
I see shad and my favourite shield.
I click.
Very simple really.
Ah but what about dragons
I feel like the biggest different between the shield walls of kite shields and other shields is that the kite shields, as they are in an odd shape, will naturally need more of them to create a wall without holes. That means that people are more cramped and will move slower, attack slower, occasionally attack others next to them, and just be in a big mess all around.
No Nguni shield ?
This video is not Zulu approved.
@Admire Kashiri Weren't those just a piece of leather strapped on a circle of sticks?
@Admire Kashiri But just how effective could one possibly be?
@Admire Kashiri Well, maybe because if you tried shooting it with a longbow, crossbow or maybe just a regular bow, tried to smash through it with a mace, chop it with an axe, impale it on a good sharp spear or just cut it with a shord it wouldn't stand, because it is but a piece of oxen hide.
@Admire Kashiri I'm not making any conclusions yet, maybe if someone tested leather armor the result may be the same.
EDIT: But I guess they didn't help much against bullets, as any other equal equipment.
@Admire Kashiri That was the exact same thing i wrote if i am not mistaken.
Haha, this video feels a bit like a summary of all your other shield related videos. Anyway, you convinced me. Kite shields ftw
I'm still not convinced. He still needs to prove that the Kite Shield is better than a Celtic Shield.
@@matthewmuir8884 Well maybe you could check with him seeming as he's clearly more informed on the subject than I am but if I had to make a guess, I'd say that it more or less comes down to the same point he made about the Roman scutum. You don't necessarily need the extra material on the bottom to cover your legs sufficiently. That is ofcourse, if you were referring to the more rectangular shaped celtic shields.
Plus Style, you forgot Style.
Nah. Kite shield is for peasants and mercenary rabble.
Dear Shad, I've watched your videos for awhile and I really admire your constant attention to detail. I also am a HUGE D&D guy. I generally enjoy writing storylines and character creation so... I would like to make a reoccurring character with your likeness. I was thinking a knowledge cleric with a sort of focus on warfare and how it pertains to architecture. If you're okay with this or have any suggestions please let me know. Also FYI it'd be with 5e rules etc.
9:38 saxons on weed “dude like huh no no I mean like what if like we put our shields upside down”
“Duuuuuuuude”
Another great video!
But Shad, I have a request: Could you do a vid talking about Crescent-shaped shields, such as the Pelted used by greek peltasts and the similar crescent shields of the Middle east/Mediterranean? Haven't seen aything so far to the level of quality and insight the CZcams Squad gets! (that's what I call you, Lindybeige, Schola Glad. Skallagrim and Metatron hehe. You have made my cable subscription obsolete)
Hey, I didn't know peltasts had that. The Elgin marbles show that the amazons used crescents, and I've been wondering for years what the value is. (Kens neighbor Nils)
KSI Vs Logan Paul *dissaproves *
Kite Shields Vs Every other shield *approves *
🔥 🔥🎶 T-Series aient nothing but a bunch of b*tch lasagna 🎶🔥 🔥
Whoa lads medieval history channel
Oh yes 👌
Curved shield doesn't just protect more of the body, they also help deflect arrow attacks which helps reduce wear and tear in the shield itself.
Kite shields were very good for the specific case of when they were used, when there was no clear distinction between cavalry and infantry units. But when on foot exclusively the scutum is better as it’s far easier to create organized formations with (particularly the testudo formation). That’s why the scutum’s shape is really the only one used today, as riot shields and ballistic shields are the only kind of shields that are still used in real situations.
the back strap is called a guige
Good to know!
You’re a guige.
everyone foregets about you, until you are needed, then we all love you
Been waiting all day and FINALLY sat down to watch this video. Love it.
I have a great buckler but have not thought of shields in this much depth before and you have made me think of the shield I want to buy next or make next. Looks like the kite shield really is the way to go and maybe a the other one armoured knights used as well!!
My favorite is the norse round shield because well, i’m scandinavian. I also like the centre grip making it so manouverable as well as it being able to be used a weapob
Happy new year to shad and our sweet comunity
To you to pal
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
I just found your channel ! These videos are amazing. Love your informative content
Awesome to hear and welcome aboard!
I loved your video on a back scabbard, to draw easily and effectively from the back, while having the tactical advantage and maneuverability of back worn scabbards. I'd love to see you apply the same knowledge to a shield to give all possible advantages like the scabbard did.
you didnt mention that if you have 2 kite shields one for each hand you can hold them in the shape of a love heart to lul your enemy into a sense of false security
From what I'm hearing the Kite Shield is the best Generalist Shield, it covers all the right spots with a minimum of weight unlike the Scutum or Hoplon, but it is itself not terribly thick so less effective against polearms, unlike the Heater Shield, and is fairly large so not particularly convenient to carry around, unlike the Buckler or Targe. Additionally it is mostly made out of wood so is less effective against particularly powerful missiles or early guns unlike the Rotella, and is not self supporting like the Pavise.
The kite shield seems to be a compromise of many things, but master of none. Eg. One on one, I like Viking shield. Formation, scutum is better.
I'd call kite shield a "generic" shield or a multi-use shield.
I believe a feature of the scutum that should noted, is that on the inside of the shield was a rack that could hold three pilums and seven darts.
This allowed the legionare to carry their ranges weapons someplace that was easy to get to and didnt increass their profile as if the pilum was to be carried on the back or in their hands.
It was easier to carry the pilums in the shield on marches as well as the scutum was desgined to rest on the shoulder when not being used like the Hoplon.
the kite shield does not really over the legs well because it goes to a point at the bottom leaving the legs well pertruding unlike the roman scutum which bends around them fully. plus the scutum is like a riot shield. it fully envelopes them from the front to have maximum coverage and has the likes of a wall to push back. unlike the kite which has the thinning lower to exploit.
A buckler for me, since I know how much of a loner I am and I (hopefully) am smart enough to stay FAR away from any large battles. 😆
Great video btw, Shad.
And to think Coulson went for a round one in Agents of SHIELD.
Or Cap, for that matter!
#kiteshieldCaptainAmerica!
I think the kite shield skimps on leg protection, if your legs are slightly spread (like in any stance where you want balance) the kite shield can't cover both. So it would probably only cover the front leg. I agree with the versatility of the kite shield but would point out several other cases where it would be less desirable.
Rough mountainous terrain if you ever have to scramble a smaller/rounder shield is better because it won't get in the way as much.
The same applies to boating, if you ever land on a beach a low shield gets in the way of wadding, and it would also get in the way of railings during any ship to ship boarding.
Any forest with thick underbrush.
To sum up I think the best shield depends primarily on your terrain and secondarily on fighting style/army type. The Kite shield is the most versatile for open terrain combat, but there are a number of alterations that would be more desirable in any circumstance.
Thanks for all this info I bow to your superior knowledge and agree with your opinion that the kite shield is the best shield. @ 9:40 is an interesting picture. I didn't realize that the kite shield could cover angles with the tortoise shield wall and the phalanx with the kite shield could allow you to have a tighter formation (closer shoulder-to-shoulder) to your allies.
The romen shield is the better choice for a footman (imo) because the curve can protect you slightly better from an angeld attack- if your reaction isnt that fast turning the Roman shield might be better because the curve can cover that angle faster then the kite shield can, i do agree on the redundent weight on the lower body but still a wider curved shield can be better in some situations (imo) if the kite shield was slightly wider in its lower part and had the same curve it will be the best out of the two (i dont know a lot about shields so dont be mad at me if there is a kite shield like this and sorry for bad English)
I think the classical Roman shield is better in some situations, but some kite shields do have a curve to them, as seen in some of the larger ones in this video.
i know what to use in my next D&D games now
We need desperately more shield videos bro!
i feel like every couple of summers i end up watching a lot of medieval history videos
A kite shield and spear, the ultimate fighting machine is born
First we shall win with our shields on the field then take them to the park to demonstrate their aerodynamics as well haha
best explanation about shields by far I have seen
On foot I prefer the round Viking shield with center hand grip and boss. You don’t rely on the shape of the shield to protect your feet you just position the potion beyond your hand downwards. And unlike the kite shield you can more easily strike with the edge of the shield. Try using a kite shield for a month and you’ll soon discard it. If mounted I prefer a small heater type shield. This is good enough to deflect blows, it is quite manuverable and since it is more difficult to strike a blow with a shield on horse back the extended reach with the Viking shield become redundant.
The tear shaped shield is indeed marvelous. The hungarian shield is also very nice, I suggest checking that beauty out!
Never seen that style of shield before, It's pretty sweet!
@@ghosturiel It's aesthetic is quite pleasing and it reminds me of the Moria Orc shield from LotR. The shield became quite popular with hussars, those being light cav, and it spread throughout my country of origin, Romania and a decent portion of the slavic world.
Is that the same as the polish wing shield? I used to use one. No, actually I'd use one on each hand and call it polish florentine. (Nils not Ken)
*For me the best shield for Infantry is still the Scutum*
The things that make the Kite Shield better is its versatility use on both Infantry and Horseback and versatility in the way you hold it.
Shad, this is very off-topic for the video I am commenting on, but I want to know if a heavy hammer like Mjolnir (without the "worthy" thing, flying, and lightning strikes) would be effective in battle. If my question ever gets answered, I would thank you very much.
9:00 The scutum is protecting you from stabs from the side and can make a more dense wall to prevent anything slipping in and helps make the roman testudo formation and regular old shield wall formations. Sure you can do that weird upside down staggered thing, but the scutum can do shield walls much easier. The kite shield is the most versatile shield, rather than the king of them (of which there isn't).