With how most people decided to express absolute hatred for the newer villains of dreamworks, I wanted to revisit the reason why they worked from before.
Tai Lung: Killed one thousand Rhino guards Lord Shen: Committed mass genocide General Kai: Defeated Master Oogway The Chameleon: pushes someone down the stairs…
The reason these three villians affect Po's story as a hero and protoganist are for three reasons. Tai Lung challenged Po physically (Body) Lord Shen challenged Po mentally (Mind) Kai challenged Po soulfully (Spirit) Po overcomes these challenges and the assumptions his community makes about him when he gains a sense of self belief.
Tai Lung and Shen are some of my favorite villains ever because of how intimidating and threatening they are making them somewhat scary. Tai Lung in particular is so sympathetic because you kinda feel bad for him when he got “denied his destiny” for Dragon Warrior being trained all his life to resort to nothing. In the final fight between him and Shifu when the latter finally apologizes, you can see Tai Lung almost cry with his eyes shaking because he felt the emotion and heart of a parental figure. P.S. It would be amazing if Aldone did a video on Prince of Egypt on why it’s one of the greatest animated films ever
I only wish The Prince of Egypt had a different title. If you simply looked at the title without any knowledge that it’s a biblical film on Moses, would you guess it’s a biblical animated film? Just from reading the title alone, I don’t get the idea it’s about Moses and could simply be referring to any historical Egyptian prince. If they wanted the title to connect more to the biblical story, titles like “The Exodus” or even “Deliver Us”, from the opening song of the film, would’ve been more fitting.
@@hunterolaughlinthis is a super interesting perspective! I totally see why you think a more explicitly religious title would’ve been more fitting, although I’ve always thought the title was as perfect as it could be. I think, first of all, that The Prince of Egypt is the best film about faith of all time, let alone one of the best films of all time in general. And I think it’s partly because it really changed the general stigma that ‘all religious-related films are propaganda’. Had the name been overtly religious, I wonder if it wouldn’t have been as successful - or at least beloved, because I still think it doesn’t have as much as half the recognition and renown it deserves 😭 - perhaps because people would’ve been deterred from it, falsely believing it to be a film seeking to either sing the praises of Moses and God, and/or to convert people. When in reality, if you watch the film out of curiosity for the title, you would see even from the very first ‘scene’, the text about the creators’ film making intentions, that it has purely been made to tell such an incredible story and explore themes that go even further beyond base religion. (Whilst still of course attempting to be as respectful of all involved religions) On the less corporate end of things, I also really like The Prince of Egypt as the title because it really explores and describes Moses’ amazing growth and development as a character. He at first believes himself to be a literal Prince of Egypt, but then once he realises who he truly is, he still is in some ways The Prince of Egypt after having freed his people and I guess triumphing over the years of cruelty within the country… This is my favourite movie of all time, hence my super long comment 🙈🙈 I’d love to make video essays all about it one day. If anyone read this far thank you :)) 🫶🏼
KFPD (Kung Fu PanDa)::: Chameleon, as a character, should have representated illusions..... but DreamWorks messed it up... it in the name KFPD 1 was about body KFPD 2 was about mind KFPD 3 was about Soul (this should have been the final movie because nothing goes beyond the soul) KFPD 4 should have either focused on one's being (existence) or, in the case of the Chameleon, illusions (the illusion of reality)
Kai is my absolute favorite. I’m so sorry as his theme song is such a banger, plus the way he fights like Kratos and is just a cool villain in general just does it for me
What many people hated about Kai was that he didn't have an emotional backbone. The thing is though, that's the point. He is just an immortal threat but shows more depth to Oogway
To this day, I am still in disbelief that Gary Oldman was the voice of Shen. If you told me that was Gary Oldman, I would never have believed it. That’s how great of a voice performance he gave as the character and one of the rare times a celebrity really became the character than just being an obvious celebrity voice performance.
One thing I noticed about these three villains is that Tai Lung and Kai got Skidooshed, and Shen is the only one that truly died. I may be wrong on the Kai part
Well anytime you die you go to the Spirit Realm and you can be brought back to the Mortal Realm by a true master of chi (A.K.A. Po) and Kai was not erased his powers were just scattered throughout the Spirit Realm
I admit that the more I think about it, the more I think the spotlight villain for KFP4 isn't the Chameleon but actually Zhen. She is a tragic villain like the previous ones, just she is a minion rather than one playing all the cards. She is also the one Po interacts with more squarely. The difference being that Po didn't just stop Zhen, he REDEEMED Zhen. Zhen challenged Po's moral compass by showing he could forgive and understand someone despite their dubious nature and bring them to his side, something he tried and failed to do with Tai Lung and Shen. The previous trio of villains had a similar backstory as Zhen after all, the understudy who showed signs of a dark heart and a turbulance with their mentor, just Po was able to help Zhen during that tragic key moment in her life.
One big error with Kai for me is the fact that the movie didnt show him actually fighting and capturing the masters, they only told us about it, even master crane and mantis didn't have a proper scene about it. it would be so more intimidating to see him actually Kung-fuing them all instead of just "I captured their Chi". Even Master oogway could have had a longer fight imo
You can tell that the creators of Kung Fu Panda 4 didn't put any thought on the villain 'The Chameleon.' Because she is named after the animal that she actually is. Instead of giving her a unique name like Tai Lung, Lord Shen, and Kai. Those names match the villains and I didn't know that Tai Lung basically means warrior. That makes him all the more compelling to me now. But he still isn't my favorite. The sheer presence of Lord Shen to Po is just unmatched. Great video as always!
Kai's thing is that he don't know who he is, he only takes without adding anything, he have no purpose, so he isthe embodiment of someone that focus too much on the material and forgets the spiritual. The lesson that we learn with him is that the purpose of life is to find your gift, master it and share it, Kai only wanted to take from others to elevate himself without realising that his quest was empty. Perhaps that greed comes from the fear of death (since, if there is no spirit, everything ends when material ends) and the sensation of impotence. With chi, he could live forever
I think Chameleon has SO SO MUCh potential for her but it all was wasted. Imagine how much she could traumatize Po by turning into people around him while he was traveling quietly watching him the whole time. That would be so cool
And she could of had a good dynamic to po since everyone in the first movie though po couldn’t be a kung fu master since he’s fat and everyone in the third movie made fun of the chameleon for being short
@@rudrapatel-wh2oo yeah honestly if she ended up being redeemed that would be great too. There are no redeemed villains in the series yet so if she decided to change for the better in the end that could be something new
What if tai lung’s parents we’re also killed after they dropped tai lung off at shifu’s temple since tai lung is white with black spots, I think it would make sense aswell to why tai lung feels like he’s missing something deep within being his missing parents, I feel like the 4th film could of focused on tai lung redeeming himself learning about the history on what happened to his family with po tagging along because tai lung was afraid of po at the end of the first film when po learned the finger ability, so back to the plot that should of happened in 4, po and tai lung could of fought as a team against someone strong that could of been tied to either of their backstory like maybe a evil dragon being the source of the dragon warrior thing and the only way to stop the dragon would be to fight it together and put a end to it as a end to the whole movie ark, I think it would of been better than the whole chameleon thing since she had no backstory to any of the characters unlike the other villains which did have a connection to po and such
In another timeline we could have seen a film where Po could contront who is he is when the title of Dragon Warrior is passed on to someone else. We see by the fourth movie he has become attached to his title to the point where he is reluctant to even the idea of letting it go. Perhaps taking a page from Shrek 4's book, and showing how he would have turned out had Oogway not pointed to him on that fateful day.- The Chameleon's motivation and power could have set her up to be the antithesis of Po's character arc and thus become a cautionary tale. In the film her motivation was, "I was told I was too small for Kung Fu." (which we all know is bs because of Mantis and Viper) But it goes back to the conflict Shifu had in the first movie. Believing that Po was too fat, too slow, and too incompetant to become a Kung Fu master. One main reason that Shifu changed his way of thinking was when his own Master passed away and it forced him to reflect. Even Po didn't believe in himself, he couldn't see what was special about himself until his dad helped show him otherwise. The Chameleon in the face of rejection took a different path and we see that she chooses to become a very powerful thief. A shapeshifter who is vexed by rejection and seeks to correct the injustice. It's no wonder then that she admires Tai Lung. The guy who also was rejected by Kung Fu and eventually was destroyed by it.
I think the issue is that the Chameleon feels like a mere plot device for Zhen's character development, and while I do like Zhen and feel like she's a better defined archetype and foil, it feels like they missed an opportunity with the Chameleon, and how she's like a dark mirror to so many characters existant in the franchise. The only one they kinda nail for her as such is her relationship with Zhen, how she's an evil mirror of flawed mentors/parental figures like Shifu or Mr Ping, and ultimately Po who is the one who effectively shows Zhen the right way and the true potential she has. It does at least add an extra nuance to the other villains bowing to Po upon that feat, because it shows he was not based on the same bullshit they had been fed that started their darkness. He was not going to turn Zhen into the same angry vengeful figure that their mentors had made them.
Shen isn't just one of the best Dreamworks villains, he's one of the best villains in film history period. He takes way more lives and causes much more destruction than Tai Lung and Kai combined. And not only is his backstory most directly related to our protagonist Po, but the fact that Dreamworks used him to address such heavy topics as genocide in what's supposed to be a FAMILY film shows they were willing to take that risk of going into much more serious territory. It ups the stakes from the first movie by making the second movie much darker, helped in no small part by Gary Oldman's amazing performance. And this is exactly what a good sequel should do, continue the hero's journey and give them a more difficult problem to solve than they did in the original because it helps them grow. I respect Dreamworks a lot for taking that risk, which more than paid off, and which makes Kung Fu Panda 2 my favorite in the series.
Worst thing is, that there WAS pretty much established Chameleon's motives, THAT COULD MADE HER GREAT VILLAIN. She wanted be great master, but was understimated for beign small and weak, like a Po. And in the end, both get what they wanted. Except Chameleon "cheated" while Po worked hard, and she doesn’t yet have enough. Why? And also, one of her biggest flaws are that absence of bitterness, anger, grudge and betrayel. They really didn’t seen themselves as villain, they felt in right. Tai Lung felt lied to and betrayed by his master and father, for whom he trained for decades. Shen felt betrayed and forsaken by his parents. Kai wanted destroyed Oogway's legacy, because he felt betrayed by him. And Chameleon? Well, she few times says she was always despised and understimated for beign small and weak, but come on, she said that like with no emotions. This is such wasted potential
Lord Shen and Tai Lung are straight up better villains than any villains of the Star Wars movies, change my mind. (Darth Vader probably is the only exception)
How Po is connected to the villains in some way: Tai Lung: he is the dragon warrior so he must defeat Tai Lung. Lord Shen: Po's past is connected to Shen, and he wants to know answers. Kai: Kai wants everyone's chi, but Po is in the way of that. The Chameleon: ... literally nothing. The only reason they want to fight is because Po is the dragon warrior, and the chameleon wants his staff to steal abilities. And that's it.
I still love the fact Kai had no motive or reason to be power hungry, he just became evil for the sake of being evil and just a charismatic evil overall.
can i just say it was not poe's destiny to kill chen ,chen killed himself by giving into his fate when the boat collapsed on him this also still matches with the prophecie as he is a creature of black and white the red stuff was just painted on him
I find it very interesting that Shen chose to accept it in the end. I thought it went against his character. It would have made more sense for him to go out in a blind panic, scrabbling to escape the falling cannon, although that might have been deemed "too upsetting" for kids.
I think you missed a key theme of Kai and Po, as well as KFP3 in general, which is the idea of what your legacy and your future will be to others. Kai and his deeds were completely erased from history by Oogway, because he believed that Kai's dark deeds as a warlord were not worthy of rememberance, similar to how Oogway has moved past his own warlord backstory to be the keeper of the Valley of Peace. Kai is an embodiment of one's actions and ideals tainting their legacy so much that they are remembered by few as horrible, and by many as a footnote at best. Po meanwhile trains the entire Panda Village to be his legacy, and he does it using his charisma and general kindness rather than brute force or conquest. KFP3's theme, in terms of "spirit" is not just about the afterlife, but about what your legacy is after your life is over.
I've heard the sentiment that, if Po was ever going to give the title of dragon warrior to anyone, it should be Tai Lung, after being given a proper redemption arc.
the root of KP4's issues all stem from Universal having bought Dreamworks, they first mandated that the film be at most 90mins long because they didn't think kid's attention spans would last for a longer film, measure the length of each film and you'll probably see KP4 is the shortest of them. 2nd, they also mandated the film be more comedy than anything else, this is why KP4 while it does give some nice moments tends to overuse or have its comedy be up front than say the more dramatic elements like Zhen's backstory. 3rd Kai and Shen were last minute additions, I forgot the details on what i read but the story originally wasn't going to include them but either it was one of the creatives who was in charge of the project or universal themselves, that wanted to push for them to be in it and by the time the final decision was made the film was already nearing completion, this is why they make voiceless cameos and why their scenes could be removed without affecting the plot unlike Tai Lung(to some extent) there was also some push back on ideas being flung around, one of which was going to have Shifu kidnapped and brought to chameleon where he would meet with Tai Lung and by the end the two would have reconciled their broken relationship with Tai Lung leaving in peace.
Shen for me the best villain, he may not be the best kung fu master, but he's incredibly smart. He was on par with Master Ox and Croc in the movie and they couldnt even touch him. And even made them lower their guard as he reveals the cannon. Also to note even those under his command arent safe from his wrath. The one eyed wolf boss, I believe was Shen's close friend? I believe, I need to look at the kung fu panda information again. Plus that, Shen denied his destiny and fate which led to his own downfall.
Honestly the Chameleon as an character is a great idea for a Villian, but her character is poorly written and the directors use her in such a bad way that if Kai was somehow in this movie instead of her, the movie would be a bit more better. Thoughts?
The first there films were about discovery of self the fourth was about the importance of change for growth and how life can became flavorless and bland if you cling and accept to what is either if it’s through achievements like becoming dragon warrior or brought in by the wrong mentor and manipulated to be able to move forward with growth. The end of one chapter to start another , a perfect 4th film
That ending in Kung Fu Panda 4 really annoyed me. Shen would NEVER bow down to Po, let alone keep his mouth shut for the 15-or-so minutes of the "battle".
Everyone the chameleon actually had story behind it where the first three focused on body, mind, and spirit. The 4rth was about all three and moving on because through out the movie we see the three aspects of body with the chameleon shapeshifting to comphensate themselves, mind for thier determination and ruthlessness, and spirit with both the fact of they took spiritual energy to get gud at kung fu and with thier spiritual energy being able to manipulate others. The story of 4 was written because when people dwell on the past (the previous 3 movies) they cant move on they dont continue to grow. Po had to move on because he cant be the dragon warrior forever and that was something he loved being. The whole point of that movie was to teach people that although you love doing something or being something eventually you have to learn to let it go and teach the next generation those lessons. the chameleons story was quite litteraly had supiriority complex they didnt want to feel like the did on the streets.
After watching the movie I think they could’ve, had more fighting, better written the Chameleon, included the furious 5, or maybe just leave it at KFP 3
i think kai is really underrated it’s always kinda frustrating to see people put him aside for tai lung and shen and then explain why he could’ve been better if it wasn’t for the jokes. at least it’s refreshing to admit he would’ve been the best villain by far with just a few tiny changes, like the original script
Something i love about the villains in kung fu panda is how the stakes rize and po doesn't truely "win" the fights, like 1st movie, in reality, tai long is way stronger and skillful than po in combat, like the only reason he won was because he wasn't allowed to have a fair fight, po won mostly by ingenuity and being immune to paralisis, in the first movie i am sure tai long would win if it was a cage fight (makes total sense, po trained a week at most while tai long decades) With shen the roles are a bit reversed and he is more skilled fighter than shen, but you can't outsmart or fight a gun, he instead stayed calm and let shen crumble under his own weakness as he destroys himself, prachtically stoicism to his cruelty, and shen basically has a one shot button regardless of skill, he won't stop to anyone and gain more puppets, he is basically unkillable by normal and most broken means like the skidush unless someone on leveled field defeats him for good
Tai-Lung: My master pushed me too hard that turn me into evil Shen: My family gave up on me because of my action against my destiny Kai: My brother in arm betrayed me, and I want all the chi in the world for myself Chameleon: i'M sMoL
Im gonna be real I think the chameleon was the perfect villain for the movie. She really represented the movie itself repeating things we’ve already seen in the past such as zhen stopping po, po learning who he is for the third time now etc. she really represented the movie not growing up and not being something original and simply holding onto past characters.
She can basically become everything Po has learned since the first 3 movies, much like ask the question "when there's nothing else to improve within you, how do you be better than who you are right now?", plus the Chimera mosnter thing was unneccessary, the audience will only connect to the characters they know, Oogway, Shifu, Tai Lung, Shen, Kai, The Five, she shouldve just shifted into those guys and used their best abilities against them. But what pissed me off the most are the lack of voice lines for Shen and Kai, and how Tai Lung easily approves that much of Po, he believed and died that Po stole his life from him. Hell, Shen committed genocide, Kai threatened the Kung Fu part of Kung Fu Panda, and they just bow like that? I think the movie was rushed as hell. I hope Dreamworks just fumbled here
4 broke the entire lore in regards to the spirit realm. Shen was killed naturally, not by any technique that would have sent him there. Kai was a spirit warrior, and when Po defeated him, he destroyed his entire spirit, thus completely removing him from existence. Shen and Kai should not have appeared in the 4th film.
The reason I absolutely hate KFP4 is because they practically do nothing, Po jokes throughout the whole movie and they sacrifice lore for humor that is not that comical, as well as in the end all of the masters were locked in cages and not voiced, yet, when they finally left they bowed which I find very questionable considering that Lord Shen had accepted death over Po's way of life, and Tai Lung would not have stopped his trail of destruction until he got what he wanted, and Kai accepting the fact that he would be locked in the Spirit World forever as long as he could have Po's Chi. The Chameleon's backstory is the worst "tragic" backstory I have ever heard, supposedly saying that no dojo would accept her because of her size yet Mantis is 10x smaller. One more small thing, Kai is my favorite villain even though his backstory is weak with little information yet his character is so much better than the Chameleon's as well as the backstory.
To me, the villains just declined as they went along. Tai Lung is my favorite. His arc of being obsessed with the idea that he was the chosen one and refusing to let go of it, thinking all that mattered was his physical power was great. Shen was great too, being an evil mastermind that refused to let anything happen to him. His mind was unable to be at peace. Kai could've been better but was good. Even though he was literally dead, he was still obsessed with power. He always wanted more.
Idk why, but I could not for the life of me follow the expectations of any of these characters. At a certain point, you just lost me. Might just be me tho.
The real reason why they worked is because the 3 villains are treated like serious threats. Sure, they may have humor here and there, but their actions speak more. Tai Lung broke out what's considered the most secure prison in china using only a Goose feather. He also has legitimate reasons on why he does what he does. Lord Shen is a genocidist, mainly to Pandas because he feared a Panda will defeat him. His goal is to end Kung fu using more modern techniques, hence the cannons. He literally declared war on Kung fu itself! Kai is a war criminal stealing chi from all the kung fu masters he encountered, including Oogway. He destroyed the Jade Palace and is basically immortal, therefore cannot be killed through conventional means. Chameleon.........Just pushes a Grizzly Bear down a long flight of stairs. Hired a small fox to do her work, and stole all the masters' Kung fu. Really? She's a damn sorceress! Can't they just make her use magic to conquer China or something instead of her bullying her minions? At least the other 3 villains treats their adversaries, including Po, with respect.
If only the Chameleon was better-written.
I was just about to mention her
She was apperently but the co director had 0.power
If only the movie was better-written
Same with Kai
is the whole movie that is poorly written💀
Tai Lung: Killed one thousand Rhino guards
Lord Shen: Committed mass genocide
General Kai: Defeated Master Oogway
The Chameleon: pushes someone down the stairs…
Not to mention that Kai was likely a war criminal along with defeating all different masters of kung fu (even Tai Lung) and using their chi
Her opening www pushing someone down the stairs 😭
Kai also originally was suppose to kill Po in a deleted scene, or at least hurt him even more badly than what we originally got.
true
@@yukishiro3287 How does it make him a war criminal?
Chameleon: I’m short, thats why i’m evil
Mantis, Shifu, Viper, master chicken: you *w h a t*
Master Chicken? Is that a Lego Ninjago Movie Video-Game reference?
@@LeFanceyOvalWatch Kung fu panda 3 you will get it
I think instead of Kung Fu Panda 4 Dreamworks should’ve made a spin off about The Furious Five
B-buh they're not as marketable!
b-b-but hiring all of the celebrity voice actors is too expensive!!!😢
And hiring jack black isnt that expensive @alexy5611
They kinda did years ago, it was a very neat short
You do know that already exists right? It's called the Secrets of the Furious Five
I desperately wish animated films did more setups for sequels rather than reliant solely on box office; it makes for a richer story.
SpiderVerse and Puss 2
The reason these three villians affect Po's story as a hero and protoganist are for three reasons.
Tai Lung challenged Po physically (Body)
Lord Shen challenged Po mentally (Mind)
Kai challenged Po soulfully (Spirit)
Po overcomes these challenges and the assumptions his community makes about him when he gains a sense of self belief.
No I think when challenged him emotionally more than mentally. Or I guess both are the same
Pretty much Lord Shen was the ONLY one with a connection to Po whereas Tai Lung and Kai had connections to Shifu and Master Oogway.
Shen represents Po's past, Tai lung Shifu's past and finally Kai oogway's past.
@@fabianramos6033 The Chameleon represents Zhen's past, so she doesn't totally break the pattern.
@@e-122psi3and she also represents Po fighting a mirrored version of himself
Shen scared me as a kid. I think we should have more genuinely scary villains, it makes overcoming them so much more satisfying
Tai Lung and Shen are some of my favorite villains ever because of how intimidating and threatening they are making them somewhat scary. Tai Lung in particular is so sympathetic because you kinda feel bad for him when he got “denied his destiny” for Dragon Warrior being trained all his life to resort to nothing. In the final fight between him and Shifu when the latter finally apologizes, you can see Tai Lung almost cry with his eyes shaking because he felt the emotion and heart of a parental figure.
P.S. It would be amazing if Aldone did a video on Prince of Egypt on why it’s one of the greatest animated films ever
Yessss Prince of Egypt!
I only wish The Prince of Egypt had a different title. If you simply looked at the title without any knowledge that it’s a biblical film on Moses, would you guess it’s a biblical animated film? Just from reading the title alone, I don’t get the idea it’s about Moses and could simply be referring to any historical Egyptian prince. If they wanted the title to connect more to the biblical story, titles like “The Exodus” or even “Deliver Us”, from the opening song of the film, would’ve been more fitting.
@@hunterolaughlinthis is a super interesting perspective! I totally see why you think a more explicitly religious title would’ve been more fitting, although I’ve always thought the title was as perfect as it could be.
I think, first of all, that The Prince of Egypt is the best film about faith of all time, let alone one of the best films of all time in general. And I think it’s partly because it really changed the general stigma that ‘all religious-related films are propaganda’.
Had the name been overtly religious, I wonder if it wouldn’t have been as successful - or at least beloved, because I still think it doesn’t have as much as half the recognition and renown it deserves 😭 - perhaps because people would’ve been deterred from it, falsely believing it to be a film seeking to either sing the praises of Moses and God, and/or to convert people. When in reality, if you watch the film out of curiosity for the title, you would see even from the very first ‘scene’, the text about the creators’ film making intentions, that it has purely been made to tell such an incredible story and explore themes that go even further beyond base religion. (Whilst still of course attempting to be as respectful of all involved religions)
On the less corporate end of things, I also really like The Prince of Egypt as the title because it really explores and describes Moses’ amazing growth and development as a character. He at first believes himself to be a literal Prince of Egypt, but then once he realises who he truly is, he still is in some ways The Prince of Egypt after having freed his people and I guess triumphing over the years of cruelty within the country…
This is my favourite movie of all time, hence my super long comment 🙈🙈 I’d love to make video essays all about it one day. If anyone read this far thank you :)) 🫶🏼
KFPD (Kung Fu PanDa):::
Chameleon, as a character, should have representated illusions..... but DreamWorks messed it up... it in the name
KFPD 1 was about body
KFPD 2 was about mind
KFPD 3 was about Soul (this should have been the final movie because nothing goes beyond the soul)
KFPD 4 should have either focused on one's being (existence) or, in the case of the Chameleon, illusions (the illusion of reality)
I guess you hate kfp 3 so much you didn’t add him
@@Sookie55555
Either way... you knew what i meant.... i made a mistake but you still get the point...
That could have worked
Kai is my absolute favorite. I’m so sorry as his theme song is such a banger, plus the way he fights like Kratos and is just a cool villain in general just does it for me
KAI IS THE BEST
@@goku17328 Les gooooo
Also Kai’s history with Oogway rlly adds more layers to his character and indirectly explains why he became such a wise and peaceful man
What many people hated about Kai was that he didn't have an emotional backbone. The thing is though, that's the point. He is just an immortal threat but shows more depth to Oogway
@@complex2live you might have a point
To this day, I am still in disbelief that Gary Oldman was the voice of Shen. If you told me that was Gary Oldman, I would never have believed it. That’s how great of a voice performance he gave as the character and one of the rare times a celebrity really became the character than just being an obvious celebrity voice performance.
Shen? You mean the theif?
Or sorry, the dragon warrior?
@@hypersonic4562Shen is the Peacock, Zhen is the Fox thief.
@@Dylan_-tu7zk oh it's spellt with a Z? My bad, I was making a joke but I thought they were spelt the same
One thing I noticed about these three villains is that Tai Lung and Kai got Skidooshed, and Shen is the only one that truly died.
I may be wrong on the Kai part
Kai got erased
Well anytime you die you go to the Spirit Realm and you can be brought back to the Mortal Realm by a true master of chi (A.K.A. Po) and Kai was not erased his powers were just scattered throughout the Spirit Realm
Tbf I think kfp3 should have ended there and then, everyone learning chi and living happily ever after
I think the same, kung fu panda 3 had a great ending that could of ended it all
I feel you but think about Kung Fu Panda 3 as the end of the first trilogy and Kung Fu Panda 4 (whether you like or not) as the start of a new trilogy
@@Abner-gu3ve don’t get me wrong, I’d be fine with a new trilogy, just not with an annoying voice actor that sounds like nails on a chalk board
@@tobiashull1781 honestly Awkwafina was fine in this movie
The first 3 villains each represent: Body, Mind, and Spirit respectively
the first one i think be better word by Physic
I admit that the more I think about it, the more I think the spotlight villain for KFP4 isn't the Chameleon but actually Zhen. She is a tragic villain like the previous ones, just she is a minion rather than one playing all the cards. She is also the one Po interacts with more squarely. The difference being that Po didn't just stop Zhen, he REDEEMED Zhen. Zhen challenged Po's moral compass by showing he could forgive and understand someone despite their dubious nature and bring them to his side, something he tried and failed to do with Tai Lung and Shen. The previous trio of villains had a similar backstory as Zhen after all, the understudy who showed signs of a dark heart and a turbulance with their mentor, just Po was able to help Zhen during that tragic key moment in her life.
I like this view on the movie! I enjoyed Kung fu panda 4 and your description on Zhen’s character was perfect.
Po tries to redeem (pretty much) all of the previous ones as well. The difference is that this time it works.
One big error with Kai for me is the fact that the movie didnt show him actually fighting and capturing the masters, they only told us about it, even master crane and mantis didn't have a proper scene about it. it would be so more intimidating to see him actually Kung-fuing them all instead of just "I captured their Chi". Even Master oogway could have had a longer fight imo
I think master Oogway lost on purpose so Po could do his dirty work for him
You can tell that the creators of Kung Fu Panda 4 didn't put any thought on the villain 'The Chameleon.' Because she is named after the animal that she actually is. Instead of giving her a unique name like Tai Lung, Lord Shen, and Kai. Those names match the villains and I didn't know that Tai Lung basically means warrior. That makes him all the more compelling to me now. But he still isn't my favorite. The sheer presence of Lord Shen to Po is just unmatched. Great video as always!
I mean, aren't the Furious Five also named exactly what they are, too? Tigress, Mantis, Monkey, Viper, and Crane?
The codirector and the storyboard artists did care the director just didnt care at all
@@daniigirl9679yes but that wasn’t the case for the villains until KFP4
@@daniigirl9679yes, but those are also different Kung Fu styles, so it makes more sense
Chameleon should’ve been named Qian Mian (千面）, which means a thousand faces in Chinese.
Kai's thing is that he don't know who he is, he only takes without adding anything, he have no purpose, so he isthe embodiment of someone that focus too much on the material and forgets the spiritual. The lesson that we learn with him is that the purpose of life is to find your gift, master it and share it, Kai only wanted to take from others to elevate himself without realising that his quest was empty. Perhaps that greed comes from the fear of death (since, if there is no spirit, everything ends when material ends) and the sensation of impotence. With chi, he could live forever
"The more you take, the less you have".
Yeah yeah you got a point 😂
I think Chameleon has SO SO MUCh potential for her but it all was wasted. Imagine how much she could traumatize Po by turning into people around him while he was traveling quietly watching him the whole time. That would be so cool
And she could of had a good dynamic to po since everyone in the first movie though po couldn’t be a kung fu master since he’s fat and everyone in the third movie made fun of the chameleon for being short
@@rudrapatel-wh2oo yeah honestly if she ended up being redeemed that would be great too. There are no redeemed villains in the series yet so if she decided to change for the better in the end that could be something new
What if tai lung’s parents we’re also killed after they dropped tai lung off at shifu’s temple since tai lung is white with black spots, I think it would make sense aswell to why tai lung feels like he’s missing something deep within being his missing parents, I feel like the 4th film could of focused on tai lung redeeming himself learning about the history on what happened to his family with po tagging along because tai lung was afraid of po at the end of the first film when po learned the finger ability, so back to the plot that should of happened in 4, po and tai lung could of fought as a team against someone strong that could of been tied to either of their backstory like maybe a evil dragon being the source of the dragon warrior thing and the only way to stop the dragon would be to fight it together and put a end to it as a end to the whole movie ark, I think it would of been better than the whole chameleon thing since she had no backstory to any of the characters unlike the other villains which did have a connection to po and such
The 1st, 2 and 3rd movies are awesome.
Yup. Unpopular opinion but the third is my favorite one
@@Abner-gu3ve 2 is my fav but i dont get the hate for KFP3. İ think it was pretty good 😭
@@N0peto3 the third movie doesn’t rlly get hate. People enjoy KFP3, just not as much as the first two
@@Abner-gu3veI think the storywise repeated from the second movie
@@mr.darkassassin7997 nah it didn’t. It continued where the second movie left off
In another timeline we could have seen a film where Po could contront who is he is when the title of Dragon Warrior is passed on to someone else. We see by the fourth movie he has become attached to his title to the point where he is reluctant to even the idea of letting it go. Perhaps taking a page from Shrek 4's book, and showing how he would have turned out had Oogway not pointed to him on that fateful day.- The Chameleon's motivation and power could have set her up to be the antithesis of Po's character arc and thus become a cautionary tale.
In the film her motivation was, "I was told I was too small for Kung Fu." (which we all know is bs because of Mantis and Viper) But it goes back to the conflict Shifu had in the first movie. Believing that Po was too fat, too slow, and too incompetant to become a Kung Fu master. One main reason that Shifu changed his way of thinking was when his own Master passed away and it forced him to reflect. Even Po didn't believe in himself, he couldn't see what was special about himself until his dad helped show him otherwise.
The Chameleon in the face of rejection took a different path and we see that she chooses to become a very powerful thief. A shapeshifter who is vexed by rejection and seeks to correct the injustice. It's no wonder then that she admires Tai Lung. The guy who also was rejected by Kung Fu and eventually was destroyed by it.
I think the issue is that the Chameleon feels like a mere plot device for Zhen's character development, and while I do like Zhen and feel like she's a better defined archetype and foil, it feels like they missed an opportunity with the Chameleon, and how she's like a dark mirror to so many characters existant in the franchise. The only one they kinda nail for her as such is her relationship with Zhen, how she's an evil mirror of flawed mentors/parental figures like Shifu or Mr Ping, and ultimately Po who is the one who effectively shows Zhen the right way and the true potential she has.
It does at least add an extra nuance to the other villains bowing to Po upon that feat, because it shows he was not based on the same bullshit they had been fed that started their darkness. He was not going to turn Zhen into the same angry vengeful figure that their mentors had made them.
Shen isn't just one of the best Dreamworks villains, he's one of the best villains in film history period. He takes way more lives and causes much more destruction than Tai Lung and Kai combined. And not only is his backstory most directly related to our protagonist Po, but the fact that Dreamworks used him to address such heavy topics as genocide in what's supposed to be a FAMILY film shows they were willing to take that risk of going into much more serious territory. It ups the stakes from the first movie by making the second movie much darker, helped in no small part by Gary Oldman's amazing performance. And this is exactly what a good sequel should do, continue the hero's journey and give them a more difficult problem to solve than they did in the original because it helps them grow. I respect Dreamworks a lot for taking that risk, which more than paid off, and which makes Kung Fu Panda 2 my favorite in the series.
Worst thing is, that there WAS pretty much established Chameleon's motives, THAT COULD MADE HER GREAT VILLAIN. She wanted be great master, but was understimated for beign small and weak, like a Po. And in the end, both get what they wanted. Except Chameleon "cheated" while Po worked hard, and she doesn’t yet have enough. Why?
And also, one of her biggest flaws are that absence of bitterness, anger, grudge and betrayel. They really didn’t seen themselves as villain, they felt in right.
Tai Lung felt lied to and betrayed by his master and father, for whom he trained for decades.
Shen felt betrayed and forsaken by his parents.
Kai wanted destroyed Oogway's legacy, because he felt betrayed by him.
And Chameleon? Well, she few times says she was always despised and understimated for beign small and weak, but come on, she said that like with no emotions.
This is such wasted potential
9:57 the prophecy could’ve meant himself, a warrior prince who has red, black, and white
Tai lung-Darth Maul
Lord Shen-Count Dooku
Kai-General Grievous
Chameleon-Kylo Ren (but worse)
Kai should lord sideous
Kai’s more like Vader in some ways
Tai Lung is more of Darth Vader
Kai is kratos
Lord Shen and Tai Lung are straight up better villains than any villains of the Star Wars movies, change my mind.
(Darth Vader probably is the only exception)
How Po is connected to the villains in some way:
Tai Lung: he is the dragon warrior so he must defeat Tai Lung.
Lord Shen: Po's past is connected to Shen, and he wants to know answers.
Kai: Kai wants everyone's chi, but Po is in the way of that.
The Chameleon: ... literally nothing.
The only reason they want to fight is because Po is the dragon warrior, and the chameleon wants his staff to steal abilities. And that's it.
I still love the fact Kai had no motive or reason to be power hungry, he just became evil for the sake of being evil and just a charismatic evil overall.
He became evil because of oogway's betrayal. Oogway as it seemed to Kai to have taken all the credit, that's why no one remembers him.
can i just say it was not poe's destiny to kill chen ,chen killed himself by giving into his fate when the boat collapsed on him this also still matches with the prophecie as he is a creature of black and white the red stuff was just painted on him
Mista was right. 4 is indeed the unlucky number.
I find it very interesting that Shen chose to accept it in the end. I thought it went against his character. It would have made more sense for him to go out in a blind panic, scrabbling to escape the falling cannon, although that might have been deemed "too upsetting" for kids.
Lord Shen is one of DreamWorks Animation's best and greatest villains before Death from Puss in Boots 2.
You nailed this video. You spoke nothing but facts 💯
I think you missed a key theme of Kai and Po, as well as KFP3 in general, which is the idea of what your legacy and your future will be to others.
Kai and his deeds were completely erased from history by Oogway, because he believed that Kai's dark deeds as a warlord were not worthy of rememberance, similar to how Oogway has moved past his own warlord backstory to be the keeper of the Valley of Peace. Kai is an embodiment of one's actions and ideals tainting their legacy so much that they are remembered by few as horrible, and by many as a footnote at best.
Po meanwhile trains the entire Panda Village to be his legacy, and he does it using his charisma and general kindness rather than brute force or conquest.
KFP3's theme, in terms of "spirit" is not just about the afterlife, but about what your legacy is after your life is over.
I like the chameleon’s design
I honestly think that Kung Fu Panda 4 has been botched in order to make money, which I can understand looking back to the mediocre 2023
I've heard the sentiment that, if Po was ever going to give the title of dragon warrior to anyone, it should be Tai Lung, after being given a proper redemption arc.
the root of KP4's issues all stem from Universal having bought Dreamworks, they first mandated that the film be at most 90mins long because they didn't think kid's attention spans would last for a longer film, measure the length of each film and you'll probably see KP4 is the shortest of them.
2nd, they also mandated the film be more comedy than anything else, this is why KP4 while it does give some nice moments tends to overuse or have its comedy be up front than say the more dramatic elements like Zhen's backstory.
3rd Kai and Shen were last minute additions, I forgot the details on what i read but the story originally wasn't going to include them but either it was one of the creatives who was in charge of the project or universal themselves, that wanted to push for them to be in it and by the time the final decision was made the film was already nearing completion, this is why they make voiceless cameos and why their scenes could be removed without affecting the plot unlike Tai Lung(to some extent)
there was also some push back on ideas being flung around, one of which was going to have Shifu kidnapped and brought to chameleon where he would meet with Tai Lung and by the end the two would have reconciled their broken relationship with Tai Lung leaving in peace.
the chameleon is just a glorified general kai
And to a degree she’s a rip off of Shen cuz she has an army
@@Abner-gu3ve true true
@@Abner-gu3ve And she was melting ore?? Who also did that eh? Oh right, SHEN
@@N0peto3 true
Not even glorified man, the writers did not give a shit 😑
shen worked because its Gary Oldman
Shen for me the best villain, he may not be the best kung fu master, but he's incredibly smart.
He was on par with Master Ox and Croc in the movie and they couldnt even touch him. And even made them lower their guard as he reveals the cannon.
Also to note even those under his command arent safe from his wrath. The one eyed wolf boss, I believe was Shen's close friend? I believe, I need to look at the kung fu panda information again.
Plus that, Shen denied his destiny and fate which led to his own downfall.
Honestly the Chameleon as an character is a great idea for a Villian, but her character is poorly written and the directors use her in such a bad way that if Kai was somehow in this movie instead of her, the movie would be a bit more better. Thoughts?
Well Kai did die in the spirit realm so it made no sense to bring him back since that was the final death, erased from existence
@@nemesisstars1527 The movie really just had a problem story wise as now I have realized this
Kai has a cameo in Kung Fu Panda 4
Chameleon kinda feels like a poor rehash of Shen and Kai 🤷🏾♂️
The first there films were about discovery of self the fourth was about the importance of change for growth and how life can became flavorless and bland if you cling and accept to what is either if it’s through achievements like becoming dragon warrior or brought in by the wrong mentor and manipulated to be able to move forward with growth.
The end of one chapter to start another , a perfect 4th film
For Shin, Oogway said "A person meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it"
That ending in Kung Fu Panda 4 really annoyed me. Shen would NEVER bow down to Po, let alone keep his mouth shut for the 15-or-so minutes of the "battle".
Everyone the chameleon actually had story behind it where the first three focused on body, mind, and spirit. The 4rth was about all three and moving on because through out the movie we see the three aspects of body with the chameleon shapeshifting to comphensate themselves, mind for thier determination and ruthlessness, and spirit with both the fact of they took spiritual energy to get gud at kung fu and with thier spiritual energy being able to manipulate others. The story of 4 was written because when people dwell on the past (the previous 3 movies) they cant move on they dont continue to grow. Po had to move on because he cant be the dragon warrior forever and that was something he loved being. The whole point of that movie was to teach people that although you love doing something or being something eventually you have to learn to let it go and teach the next generation those lessons. the chameleons story was quite litteraly had supiriority complex they didnt want to feel like the did on the streets.
After watching the movie I think they could’ve, had more fighting, better written the Chameleon, included the furious 5, or maybe just leave it at KFP 3
i think kai is really underrated it’s always kinda frustrating to see people put him aside for tai lung and shen and then explain why he could’ve been better if it wasn’t for the jokes. at least it’s refreshing to admit he would’ve been the best villain by far with just a few tiny changes, like the original script
Agreed. Kai had a lot more going for him in the original script. He was going to be even more menacing
Kai deserved better
@@akisatsuki8444 agreed
If the Chameleon was written better, she might have an N.3 or even an N.2 villain in the series
Kai reminded me of a Shaw brothers villain. Kp3 was the most like an old kung fu flick. That’s why I like it better than 2.
Something i love about the villains in kung fu panda is how the stakes rize and po doesn't truely "win" the fights, like 1st movie, in reality, tai long is way stronger and skillful than po in combat, like the only reason he won was because he wasn't allowed to have a fair fight, po won mostly by ingenuity and being immune to paralisis, in the first movie i am sure tai long would win if it was a cage fight (makes total sense, po trained a week at most while tai long decades)
With shen the roles are a bit reversed and he is more skilled fighter than shen, but you can't outsmart or fight a gun, he instead stayed calm and let shen crumble under his own weakness as he destroys himself, prachtically stoicism to his cruelty, and shen basically has a one shot button regardless of skill, he won't stop to anyone and gain more puppets, he is basically unkillable by normal and most broken means like the skidush unless someone on leveled field defeats him for good
Tai-Lung: My master pushed me too hard that turn me into evil
Shen: My family gave up on me because of my action against my destiny
Kai: My brother in arm betrayed me, and I want all the chi in the world for myself
Chameleon: i'M sMoL
Im gonna be real I think the chameleon was the perfect villain for the movie. She really represented the movie itself repeating things we’ve already seen in the past such as zhen stopping po, po learning who he is for the third time now etc.
she really represented the movie not growing up and not being something original and simply holding onto past characters.
I'm so glad there were 3 parts od KFP because they could destroy those masterpieces 🥰🥰🥰
Do a video on the HTTYD villains
I just realised why there are no zebras in the kfp franchise
She can basically become everything Po has learned since the first 3 movies, much like ask the question "when there's nothing else to improve within you, how do you be better than who you are right now?", plus the Chimera mosnter thing was unneccessary, the audience will only connect to the characters they know, Oogway, Shifu, Tai Lung, Shen, Kai, The Five, she shouldve just shifted into those guys and used their best abilities against them. But what pissed me off the most are the lack of voice lines for Shen and Kai, and how Tai Lung easily approves that much of Po, he believed and died that Po stole his life from him. Hell, Shen committed genocide, Kai threatened the Kung Fu part of Kung Fu Panda, and they just bow like that? I think the movie was rushed as hell. I hope Dreamworks just fumbled here
4 broke the entire lore in regards to the spirit realm. Shen was killed naturally, not by any technique that would have sent him there. Kai was a spirit warrior, and when Po defeated him, he destroyed his entire spirit, thus completely removing him from existence. Shen and Kai should not have appeared in the 4th film.
The reason I absolutely hate KFP4 is because they practically do nothing, Po jokes throughout the whole movie and they sacrifice lore for humor that is not that comical, as well as in the end all of the masters were locked in cages and not voiced, yet, when they finally left they bowed which I find very questionable considering that Lord Shen had accepted death over Po's way of life, and Tai Lung would not have stopped his trail of destruction until he got what he wanted, and Kai accepting the fact that he would be locked in the Spirit World forever as long as he could have Po's Chi. The Chameleon's backstory is the worst "tragic" backstory I have ever heard, supposedly saying that no dojo would accept her because of her size yet Mantis is 10x smaller. One more small thing, Kai is my favorite villain even though his backstory is weak with little information yet his character is so much better than the Chameleon's as well as the backstory.
i love how the 4th movie was so bad that we gotta remind dreamworks what kung fu panda is
If only they chose a better voice for tai lung, a deeper more menacing voice
I'm personally think Kung Fu Panda 4 was a good film, but not the best. The Chameleon wasn't a bad villain, just undeveloped.
I agree. Even if the chameleon wasn’t the most developed she could’ve at least been a threat for the whole movie
@Abner-gu3ve and hey, there have been even worse villains in the cinemas lately, even worse than the Chameleon. (Looks aggressively at Disney)
@@magicvalgirl2309 or anything from Madame Web. Chameleon ain’t even nowhere close to being the worst villain in the past couple of months
@Abner-gu3ve true, true. We need movies that actually give us a villain to invest on. And if they want to do a sympathetic one, AT LEAST DO IT RIGHT!
To me, the villains just declined as they went along. Tai Lung is my favorite. His arc of being obsessed with the idea that he was the chosen one and refusing to let go of it, thinking all that mattered was his physical power was great. Shen was great too, being an evil mastermind that refused to let anything happen to him. His mind was unable to be at peace. Kai could've been better but was good. Even though he was literally dead, he was still obsessed with power. He always wanted more.
Declining idk bout that. For me it’s the other way around. Kai is my favorite, then Shen and then Tai Lung
@@Abner-gu3ve Fair enough. But one thing that brought Kai down for me is that JK Simmons did not sound menacing at all.
@@bowserbreaker2515 most people seem to think the opposite. They say JK Simmons did a great job voicing him
I still like Kung Fu Panda 4. Yes, it's not as good, but I still like it.
why you sound like the daily dose of internet guy
Mmm monke
Luckily they only made 3 movies, like imagine they would actually do a 4th movie that sucked
How does dinosaurs carnotaurus manage to be a better villian than the chameleon
Httyd trilogy is better than KFP trilogy or Hexalogy as its about to be
If we're only counting the first three then no, KFP > HTTYD
@@subhasishghosh6924 yeah I know. Most TrollsWorldTourFan2001 supporters would utter the same thing
@@subhasishghosh6924 Httyd three is WAY Better Than kfp3
@@zoorockf1 Right but HTTYD3 >> HTTYD2 too.
Meanwhile KFP2 was the franchise's peak and is significantly better than HTTYD2.
@@subhasishghosh6924 why does everyone omit the third chapter
There is no Kung Fu Panda 4
Algorithm
Idk why, but I could not for the life of me follow the expectations of any of these characters. At a certain point, you just lost me. Might just be me tho.
The real reason why they worked is because the 3 villains are treated like serious threats. Sure, they may have humor here and there, but their actions speak more.
Tai Lung broke out what's considered the most secure prison in china using only a Goose feather. He also has legitimate reasons on why he does what he does.
Lord Shen is a genocidist, mainly to Pandas because he feared a Panda will defeat him. His goal is to end Kung fu using more modern techniques, hence the cannons. He literally declared war on Kung fu itself!
Kai is a war criminal stealing chi from all the kung fu masters he encountered, including Oogway. He destroyed the Jade Palace and is basically immortal, therefore cannot be killed through conventional means.
Chameleon.........Just pushes a Grizzly Bear down a long flight of stairs. Hired a small fox to do her work, and stole all the masters' Kung fu.
Really? She's a damn sorceress! Can't they just make her use magic to conquer China or something instead of her bullying her minions? At least the other 3 villains treats their adversaries, including Po, with respect.
KAI IS THE BEST
Change the the title to why the first three Kung Fu Panda villains worked. I like the chameleon but she’s definitely the weakest 😂
Chamelepn was not that bad...she was a shapeshifter sorceror after all
True but at the same time boo hoo?
Kai and the chameleon are not great
No Kai is definitely a solid villain, you can say whatever you want about the chameleon tho idc 🤷🏾♂️
@@Abner-gu3ve well I don’t like him 🤷🏾♂️
@@lukelaps9298 your loss 🤷🏾♂️
@@Abner-gu3ve 🤷🏾♂️
@@lukelaps9298Kai still fine compared to Chameleon
kai is a great villain shen is mid af tai lung is cool i said it f everyone who says otherwise