From what I've heard folks often have poor/mediocre results attempting to winter sow using large containers. You don't get the right kind of greenhouse effect using containers as large as you have there. The tried and tested "proper" method of using small plastic containers seems to yield the best, most consistent results. This is my first year trying winter sowing and I used the recommended method. It's just starting to warm up in my zone so I'm just starting to see seedlings, but I'm having good, consistent results!
Hi Pamela, I’m in 5 b and just want to share some of my results. Late start due to COVID-19 so I planted 3/3 and then every other week. I used the tall bins and clear solo cups mostly. These have germinated: Lupine, coreopsis, peas, turnips, collards, red cabbage, onions, thyme, parsley, sage, sweet Cicely, kale, cornflowers. I saw a CZcams that said make sure it is large enough. I get great condensation. In the cups and in the bin. So just adding my experience. This is also my first year. I have to put containers in the front so did not feel comfortable with jugs, thought I had a lot of them saved.
It could be ventilation issues on why you didn't get a lot of germination and more algae instead. Most people who use a hands-off approach to winter sowing with the bottles keep the lids off so that rain can get in, but excess heat and condensation can escape. With a clear plastic tote, heat and condensation are distributed throughout differently because its a larger, thicker plastic, so a bit more thought and maintenance is usually required. What you can do is water the cups and let them drain out BEFORE putting them in the tote and then to deal with excess heat on warm days, put a stick in between the container and the lid to create a gap for airflow. As I said, this will require a BIT more attention because condensation will be distributed differently throughout the tote so some cups will get watered from droplets falling from the lid, while the others are dry and you may have to water them yourself. But if you're bored and just waiting for Spring to arrive, it'll give you something to do 😁
Looks like in the bigger container the ones in the middle grew the best. Maybe those cups were warmer because they are surrounded by the other cups whereas the cups on the outside edge would be exposed to the bin sides that might be cold? Also, I did notice in the smaller bins the holes in the lids had much larger diameter to let in cold air and rain water. Plus not as much head space as the larger bins to keep heat in. Just observations… I’m glad you had some success! Thanks for the video😃
Thank you for the video. I am truly sorry to say that I have learnt a lot from your mistakes on winter sowing!! The comments here are so educating for someone like me, who has tried winter sowing for the first time this year!! Once again thank you for sharing ❤
The ones that seemed to be doing better had more condensation inside the boxes. I have been WSing for over a decade - even now it can be a hit or miss. I know everyone loves to try to do the cups and pots inside the containers - but I have had the best luck with just putting soil inside the containers. You can up-pot them after they get going. But I have even done WSing in pots with clear shower curtains over them and added holes for moisture to get in. (Stick your poppies out in the fall - direct sow and let them get established before winter hits...they are just happier that way.) Overthinking it is usually what gets in the way.
There is no reason to winter sow poppies. They will do a million times better if you direct seed them in early winter, and walk away. They will germinate in the cold and grow all winter. When spring comes they take off and bloom. Just scatter the seeds and walk away.
I think you’re watering is going to be very inconsistent with small cups inside a big container like that. You won’t get precipitation in every cup that way. When you have a lid on top, vs the lid as a base, I think it would be somewhat better because of the way extra water might collect in the bottom enough to water a second cup, but I don’t think you had enough water. Also, some of them looked dry.
It’s nice to see “real” results… I’ve heard that winter sewing is a sure thing and equivalent to growing indoors.. I tried it this year and ruined some expensive little seeds. I couldn’t keep mine consistently wet and they froze solid several times. In the spring, I finally brought them inside to see if anything survived and only then did a few snapdragons sprouted… even my pansies didn’t survive the experiment
You're not supposed to bring them inside. By doing so you undid everything winter sowing is about, and most probably killed most of your seeds then and there.
The bottle method is more of a hands-off approach to winter sowing where you plant it, set it, then forget about it. The tops are off so rain can get in, but excess condensation and heat can escape and the containers are at the mercy of outdoor temperatures, which also affect the temperature inside the containers, telling the seedlings when it's the best time to sprout. The method with the tote is doable, just requires a bit more thought and maintenance. You can stick a twig under the lid to create a gap for ventilation and just check up on the tote regularly to make sure everything is watered properly
The totes was a good idea but it didn’t create a greenhouse affect. Using water/milk jugs or even water bottles create a greenhouse and helps store the heat in. Even if the seeds are cold hardy it has to be around the temperature it says on the packet on a consistent basis for them to germinate.
Your biggest indicator should be soil temperature. It can be nice weather out, but the soil can be stone cold, which means the plants will just sit there and never get going - this is what happened to me. I've given up on new spring seedling plantings - for me it's autumn (fall), having them grow a decent root system and overwintering, or really late spring/early summer. Those containers are so small, they offer almost zero protection...
Yeah I would definitely plant out any poppies, larkspur, and any other cold tolerant seedlings that have some true leaves, and leave the rest in the containers for now. I'm going to check mine this weekend and hopefully plant a few things out too! Some of mine have algae too, so I'm not sure how to avoid it really 🤔
The cups on the outside were colder. It is also early. This is my third year winter sowing but I use jugs. I did not notice condensation when you opened the lg container. Did they get too dry? When I have not had germination, I’d reuse the soil- ended up with those formate seeds germinating all over my garden. It was heaven🥰
With the inconsistent weather patterns here in Denver Colorado Zone 5b, it's just not great for Winter Sowing. Too many long periods of dry heat, not enough moisture. Then boom snow for days and then back to dry heat. To be successful here- you really have to know your seeds and be in tune with the weather. It's tough. When those seeds sprout they can't take a freeze. And they need water which can freeze them overnight with the low temps! My advice would be to experiment with a few seeds (not the bank) here and there, observe- take notes then adjust accordingly, Note the successful patterns then build around them. Planting your tender flowers (WS in containers) a few weeks before your last frost date (April 15 here) works well for me. The only ones I start in Dec-Feb are the seeds I know fall off plants and return on their own.
Also gardening in Denver. Have wondered about winter sowing, which I have not tried. I have a significant seed starting set up, but am always on the lookout for new methods.
@@leslienichols5268 Just be careful. Do not "put all of your eggs in one basket." Some here in Colorado rave success stories about WS. But we have micro climates, offbeat weather patterns and not all yards are the same. It is not "set it and forget it" here for us.But if you want to get an early jump on your early spring planting- that works! Good luck neighbour for this growing season.
I think that there isn’t enough drainage holes, the bottom of the big container does not have holes in it and I noticed that some f them have water sitting at the bottom. I put holes in the bottom of mine the second round I did it and had a way mor succession. Hope that helps!
My cold weather veggies just started to sprout last weekend. Im in Central wi 4b. I did vermiculite and so far no algae. Nothing that is warm weather has started yet here
I would agree with Gardening Junkie by suspecting that maybe you used potting soil that had fert. in it. Did you? That commonly causes issues with algae. I also noted that the containers in the front (the first ones you showed) have much less "head room" than the ones in the back. So there was much less air and area for the water to evaporate "into".. meaning the soil would stay more moist and droplets would fall into the soil more frequently. In the larger containers -- they have more air space mass (to hold water droplets) so the waterfalls from condensation would be less. Your last years milk jugs had a higher head room for air circulation -- so you might not have had nearly the same level of algae that year. I think that could be a factor. Hope that did not confuse the issue! But I am betting you still are gonna get germination in many of your empty cups/containers.
Try sprinkling a little cinnamon on top to help Algae next time. Also you may have better luck using the method where you do it in old milk jugs. Every single one of my jugs has 100% germination. It created a mini greenhouse I think your system may be too open meaning the seeds aren’t getting a warm enough greenhouse feel it’s likely been to cold. I did statice and delphinium and columbine and something else I can’t remember and I have loads of germination. I think the solo cup plastic helped keep the seeds a little warmer which is why that worked better.
My milk jugs did much better compared to when I switched to cups and totes, the next year. it could be that they just do better in the milk jugs for whatever reason. I skip last year bcs I was so disappointed the year before , but I did start a bunch this year in milk jugs.
Another thing that happened to me was good germination did happen on my cosmos but cool temp killed them and I had to resow them. I know because I literally look at them everyday. A few really cold nights instead of covering them I brought them in side.
I don't know when you planted the seeds of the cosmos, but it could be that you did it too soon. Cosmos is a warm-loving plant. You can winter sow them, but NOT in fall or winter, but in early spring when there are (almost) no cold spells anymore. The perennials, cool-loving plants and wild plants (from where you live) you can winter sow first, no matter how cold it gets. Warm-loving plants you winter sow later.
Timing when you sow certain seeds sometimes adds to the success rate. I think something like cosmos maybe should be WS later like tomatoes and peppers as they are warm season crops. IDK what zone you are in.
When it comes to winter sowing warm weather plants, you have to keep an eye on the forecast. Especially if they germinate early in the winter. The tote can't protect them from everything If its predicted to get below 30 or 40 degrees at night, I just covered mine or sat a cup or bowl of steaming water inside the tote. I use bottles now because they're smaller and easier to move around but Im still checking up on and maintaining the containers everyday as I would a tote.
@@Keyboardje Then doesn't that defeat the purpose of winter sowing? The point of it is to be able to start seeds outside EARLY without the use of grow lights. If you do it in Spring where there isnt really too many frosts, then it cant be considered winter sowing
I know a lot of people that have great success with winter sowing but this is why I'm torn about it- taking the chanceof wasting all those seeds & not having sucess... but it would be easier & cheaper if it works!?!
You could plant the jugs or tote indoors, wait for them to germinate, then put them outdoors in a sunny location. If its warm weather plants you're growing, just be extra sure to keep an eye on the forecast. If your night temperatures are going to be 30 or below, either cover the containers or bring them in for the night.
@LepidLover05 Good suggestion, but I have back problems after being rear-ended, & it kills my back to be bending over to put trays (or jugs) down outside everyday. That was one of the reasons I invested in grow lights. The 2nd reason being that I was having a lot of disease issues with my warm season crops, because they were being exposed to those cold, wet conditions outside, then warmer temps in the house, then colder temps, etc.
I wonder if the solo cups were more successful since with more soil they might have stayed more moist? The small ones looked like they had the soil shrinkage from drying out
Dont give up! It really is a fun and reliable method for starting seeds. It just may require a bit more effort and maintenance for some people than others. You could germinate them indoors and then set the totes they're in outdoors in a sunny location with a gap between the lid and tote for ventilation and maybe some holes at the bottom of the containers in case it rains so you dont have your plants literally sitting in a pool of water. On nights where it's supposed to be 30 degrees or lower, either cover the tote or bring it inside for the night.
I gave up too when first have tried it. It was this tote method. This year I am doing the milk jug method and it works wonderfully. Just make sure not to sow too many seeds in one jug.
Hi, I’m doing a similar method with good results. I use the tall bin and solo cups. I believe a IUN MG or a CZcamsr said be sure to have enough space to get the greenhouse effect, no better term. Do you think the more soil and higher dome created the success?
From what I've heard folks often have poor/mediocre results attempting to winter sow using large containers. You don't get the right kind of greenhouse effect using containers as large as you have there. The tried and tested "proper" method of using small plastic containers seems to yield the best, most consistent results.
This is my first year trying winter sowing and I used the recommended method. It's just starting to warm up in my zone so I'm just starting to see seedlings, but I'm having good, consistent results!
Hi Pamela, I’m in 5 b and just want to share some of my results. Late start due to COVID-19 so I planted 3/3 and then every other week. I used the tall bins and clear solo cups mostly. These have germinated: Lupine, coreopsis, peas, turnips, collards, red cabbage, onions, thyme, parsley, sage, sweet Cicely, kale, cornflowers. I saw a CZcams that said make sure it is large enough. I get great condensation. In the cups and in the bin. So just adding my experience. This is also my first year. I have to put containers in the front so did not feel comfortable with jugs, thought I had a lot of them saved.
The fertilizer in potting soil is what causes the algae. I found vermiculite definitely helps with that.
Thank you!!
gardening junkie, do you use potting soil instead of seed starting soil and do you just sprinkle the vermiculite on top?
It could be ventilation issues on why you didn't get a lot of germination and more algae instead.
Most people who use a hands-off approach to winter sowing with the bottles keep the lids off so that rain can get in, but excess heat and condensation can escape.
With a clear plastic tote, heat and condensation are distributed throughout differently because its a larger, thicker plastic, so a bit more thought and maintenance is usually required.
What you can do is water the cups and let them drain out BEFORE putting them in the tote and then to deal with excess heat on warm days, put a stick in between the container and the lid to create a gap for airflow.
As I said, this will require a BIT more attention because condensation will be distributed differently throughout the tote so some cups will get watered from droplets falling from the lid, while the others are dry and you may have to water them yourself. But if you're bored and just waiting for Spring to arrive, it'll give you something to do 😁
Looks like in the bigger container the ones in the middle grew the best. Maybe those cups were warmer because they are surrounded by the other cups whereas the cups on the outside edge would be exposed to the bin sides that might be cold? Also, I did notice in the smaller bins the holes in the lids had much larger diameter to let in cold air and rain water. Plus not as much head space as the larger bins to keep heat in. Just observations… I’m glad you had some success! Thanks for the video😃
Thank you for the input!!
Thank you for the video. I am truly sorry to say that I have learnt a lot from your mistakes on winter sowing!! The comments here are so educating for someone like me, who has tried winter sowing for the first time this year!! Once again thank you for sharing ❤
The ones that seemed to be doing better had more condensation inside the boxes. I have been WSing for over a decade - even now it can be a hit or miss. I know everyone loves to try to do the cups and pots inside the containers - but I have had the best luck with just putting soil inside the containers. You can up-pot them after they get going. But I have even done WSing in pots with clear shower curtains over them and added holes for moisture to get in. (Stick your poppies out in the fall - direct sow and let them get established before winter hits...they are just happier that way.) Overthinking it is usually what gets in the way.
Thank you!!!
There is no reason to winter sow poppies.
They will do a million times better if you direct seed them in early winter, and walk away.
They will germinate in the cold and grow all winter.
When spring comes they take off and bloom.
Just scatter the seeds and walk away.
If you too your soil with vermiculite when you first plant in the cups, there is less of a chance of getting algae or molds.
Thank you so much for that tip!!
I think you’re watering is going to be very inconsistent with small cups inside a big container like that. You won’t get precipitation in every cup that way. When you have a lid on top, vs the lid as a base, I think it would be somewhat better because of the way extra water might collect in the bottom enough to water a second cup, but I don’t think you had enough water. Also, some of them looked dry.
It’s nice to see “real” results… I’ve heard that winter sewing is a sure thing and equivalent to growing indoors.. I tried it this year and ruined some expensive little seeds. I couldn’t keep mine consistently wet and they froze solid several times. In the spring, I finally brought them inside to see if anything survived and only then did a few snapdragons sprouted… even my pansies didn’t survive the experiment
I'm sorry you lost those seeds! Nothing is fool proof, right?!
You're not supposed to bring them inside. By doing so you undid everything winter sowing is about, and most probably killed most of your seeds then and there.
@@Keyboardje You can bring stuff in to protect them from hard frosts. I've done it many times without an issue.
The bottle method is more of a hands-off approach to winter sowing where you plant it, set it, then forget about it. The tops are off so rain can get in, but excess condensation and heat can escape and the containers are at the mercy of outdoor temperatures, which also affect the temperature inside the containers, telling the seedlings when it's the best time to sprout.
The method with the tote is doable, just requires a bit more thought and maintenance.
You can stick a twig under the lid to create a gap for ventilation and just check up on the tote regularly to make sure everything is watered properly
The totes was a good idea but it didn’t create a greenhouse affect. Using water/milk jugs or even water bottles create a greenhouse and helps store the heat in. Even if the seeds are cold hardy it has to be around the temperature it says on the packet on a consistent basis for them to germinate.
Your biggest indicator should be soil temperature. It can be nice weather out, but the soil can be stone cold, which means the plants will just sit there and never get going - this is what happened to me. I've given up on new spring seedling plantings - for me it's autumn (fall), having them grow a decent root system and overwintering, or really late spring/early summer. Those containers are so small, they offer almost zero protection...
I tried you winter sowing technique this year and I love it.
So glad to hear that!
It looks like you have them in the shade. I think they are supposed to be in full sun.
Yeah I would definitely plant out any poppies, larkspur, and any other cold tolerant seedlings that have some true leaves, and leave the rest in the containers for now. I'm going to check mine this weekend and hopefully plant a few things out too! Some of mine have algae too, so I'm not sure how to avoid it really 🤔
I think I will plant those guys out! I hope you find great results in your containers this weekend 🙏
The cups on the outside were colder. It is also early. This is my third year winter sowing but I use jugs. I did not notice condensation when you opened the lg container. Did they get too dry? When I have not had germination, I’d reuse the soil- ended up with those formate seeds germinating all over my garden. It was heaven🥰
With the inconsistent weather patterns here in Denver Colorado Zone 5b, it's just not great for Winter Sowing. Too many long periods of dry heat, not enough moisture. Then boom snow for days and then back to dry heat. To be successful here- you really have to know your seeds and be in tune with the weather. It's tough. When those seeds sprout they can't take a freeze. And they need water which can freeze them overnight with the low temps! My advice would be to experiment with a few seeds (not the bank) here and there, observe- take notes then adjust accordingly, Note the successful patterns then build around them. Planting your tender flowers (WS in containers) a few weeks before your last frost date (April 15 here) works well for me. The only ones I start in Dec-Feb are the seeds I know fall off plants and return on their own.
Great advice. Thank you!
Also gardening in Denver. Have wondered about winter sowing, which I have not tried. I have a significant seed starting set up, but am always on the lookout for new methods.
@@leslienichols5268 Just be careful. Do not "put all of your eggs in one basket." Some here in Colorado rave success stories about WS. But we have micro climates, offbeat weather patterns and not all yards are the same. It is not "set it and forget it" here for us.But if you want to get an early jump on your early spring planting- that works! Good luck neighbour for this growing season.
I think that there isn’t enough drainage holes, the bottom of the big container does not have holes in it and I noticed that some f them have water sitting at the bottom.
I put holes in the bottom of mine the second round I did it and had a way mor succession.
Hope that helps!
Very helpful! Thank you!!
My cold weather veggies just started to sprout last weekend. Im in Central wi 4b. I did vermiculite and so far no algae. Nothing that is warm weather has started yet here
I will totally add vermiculite next year!
I would agree with Gardening Junkie by suspecting that maybe you used potting soil that had fert. in it. Did you? That commonly causes issues with algae. I also noted that the containers in the front (the first ones you showed) have much less "head room" than the ones in the back. So there was much less air and area for the water to evaporate "into".. meaning the soil would stay more moist and droplets would fall into the soil more frequently. In the larger containers -- they have more air space mass (to hold water droplets) so the waterfalls from condensation would be less. Your last years milk jugs had a higher head room for air circulation -- so you might not have had nearly the same level of algae that year. I think that could be a factor. Hope that did not confuse the issue! But I am betting you still are gonna get germination in many of your empty cups/containers.
This makes so much sense. Thank you!!!
Try sprinkling a little cinnamon on top to help Algae next time. Also you may have better luck using the method where you do it in old milk jugs. Every single one of my jugs has 100% germination. It created a mini greenhouse I think your system may be too open meaning the seeds aren’t getting a warm enough greenhouse feel it’s likely been to cold. I did statice and delphinium and columbine and something else I can’t remember and I have loads of germination. I think the solo cup plastic helped keep the seeds a little warmer which is why that worked better.
Thank you! Back to milk jugs next year 👍
My milk jugs did much better compared to when I switched to cups and totes, the next year. it could be that they just do better in the milk jugs for whatever reason. I skip last year bcs I was so disappointed the year before , but I did start a bunch this year in milk jugs.
Adding an extra layer of protection would increase you winter germination rates.
Another thing that happened to me was good germination did happen on my cosmos but cool temp killed them and I had to resow them. I know because I literally look at them everyday. A few really cold nights instead of covering them I brought them in side.
Good to know! So sorry you lost the WS cosmos.
I don't know when you planted the seeds of the cosmos, but it could be that you did it too soon. Cosmos is a warm-loving plant. You can winter sow them, but NOT in fall or winter, but in early spring when there are (almost) no cold spells anymore.
The perennials, cool-loving plants and wild plants (from where you live) you can winter sow first, no matter how cold it gets.
Warm-loving plants you winter sow later.
Timing when you sow certain seeds sometimes adds to the success rate. I think something like cosmos maybe should be WS later like tomatoes and peppers as they are warm season crops. IDK what zone you are in.
When it comes to winter sowing warm weather plants, you have to keep an eye on the forecast. Especially if they germinate early in the winter.
The tote can't protect them from everything
If its predicted to get below 30 or 40 degrees at night, I just covered mine or sat a cup or bowl of steaming water inside the tote.
I use bottles now because they're smaller and easier to move around but Im still checking up on and maintaining the containers everyday as I would a tote.
@@Keyboardje Then doesn't that defeat the purpose of winter sowing?
The point of it is to be able to start seeds outside EARLY without the use of grow lights.
If you do it in Spring where there isnt really too many frosts, then it cant be considered winter sowing
I know a lot of people that have great success with winter sowing but this is why I'm torn about it- taking the chanceof wasting all those seeds & not having sucess... but it would be easier & cheaper if it works!?!
I totally agree!!!
You could plant the jugs or tote indoors, wait for them to germinate, then put them outdoors in a sunny location.
If its warm weather plants you're growing, just be extra sure to keep an eye on the forecast. If your night temperatures are going to be 30 or below, either cover the containers or bring them in for the night.
@LepidLover05 Good suggestion, but I have back problems after being rear-ended, & it kills my back to be bending over to put trays (or jugs) down outside everyday. That was one of the reasons I invested in grow lights. The 2nd reason being that I was having a lot of disease issues with my warm season crops, because they were being exposed to those cold, wet conditions outside, then warmer temps in the house, then colder temps, etc.
It seems the ones in the middle did better. Probably less cold.
I wonder if the solo cups were more successful since with more soil they might have stayed more moist? The small ones looked like they had the soil shrinkage from drying out
I noticed that as well!
I think you are supposed to have at least 4" of potting soil. I would try water or milk jugs.
I tried winter sowing for the 1st time this year and had terrible luck. I don't think I will try again.
So sorry to hear that!!
Dont give up! It really is a fun and reliable method for starting seeds. It just may require a bit more effort and maintenance for some people than others.
You could germinate them indoors and then set the totes they're in outdoors in a sunny location with a gap between the lid and tote for ventilation and maybe some holes at the bottom of the containers in case it rains so you dont have your plants literally sitting in a pool of water.
On nights where it's supposed to be 30 degrees or lower, either cover the tote or bring it inside for the night.
I gave up too when first have tried it. It was this tote method. This year I am doing the milk jug method and it works wonderfully. Just make sure not to sow too many seeds in one jug.
I think it’s the orange pots, mine didn’t do well in those.
Those storage containers are a great idea. Great post!
Hi, I’m doing a similar method with good results. I use the tall bin and solo cups. I believe a IUN MG or a CZcamsr said be sure to have enough space to get the greenhouse effect, no better term. Do you think the more soil and higher dome created the success?
I think that was definitely part of it!
@@backyardbeauty9283 Your experience is helping others. Someone on one of the WS Facebook sites asked and I shared your experience.
@@evonnewaters4927 thank you so much!!!
Maybe the seeds aren't ready to germinate yet?
Maybe!!! I'll check back in a month.
Add cinnamon on top of the soil to combat the algae problem. 💚
Respect
None of my rudbeckia germinated either
you might not had enough air circulation maybe that why you have allogene