Jordan Peterson - Nietzsche and the will to power
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this conversation is interesting- but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Nietzsche's Will to Power.
Nietzsche's Will to Power is the desire for an organism to expand it's "power", to grow and to overcome previous states of itself. Now, to box it and present it as a Machiavellian pursuit of power and control is disingenuous.
For an artist, his will to power is to make better art, for a businessman, to make more money and for a swordsman to reach the pinnacle of his craft. There's nothing manipulative about it. Unless that's *your* specific will to power. Like it was for Machiavelli.
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There are a couple of things here. He presented his views as Machiavellian, when you include certain factors (like messing with people egos, or when they're restrained by others from expanding). The operative word is "when." I understand the video editor present this whole as Nietzsche's will to power, but the guy started off with Nietzsche and combined it with his experience and Machiavellian thinking BECAUSE the reporters sought to destroy his reputation. It's a reply to slander uttered by critics. This isn't a thesis on Nietzsche, as the title incorrectly suggest.
Brilliant bite of logic there, makes complete sense.
R. Green notion of power has more to do with a form of manipulating and subjugating people. Nietzsche's will to power is a substantially different notion. Please stop twisting Nietzsche philosophy.
Jordan you ignore what is really important about me.
This isn't about Nietzsche at all!
Self measured Independence, will to power.
That was cut without addressing the question hmm. There are multiple powers sure, while Deleuze talk about power as expression of multiple psychologies... Yes power is psychological, Nietzsche was for power over oneself primarily than other individuals, because he had high standards... Organism has to gain space and defend itself against external influences to survive, tho Nietzsche signified will-to-life only second to will-to-power. Historical fact: Nietzsche misunderstood evolution as random and thought mere will to survive was too cowardly... Although will-to-power is mostly thought as psychological dynamic, Nietzsche himself wondered: if that could perhaps be extended to metaphysics and explain this world of ours... Or it is random metaphysically, but humans evolved mostly to seek power and around power... From soft-determinism... Nietzsche in beyond good evil is very radical and speaking everything is appropriation, exploitation, conquest and striving for more... I do not much believe some overoptimistic narrative that power can be thought as expression of psychological forces, also all forces are competing for control how it would be decided which will win? It seems to me like wishful thinking, Deleuze seems also like super positive kind compassionate guy. And also will-to-power explains characters of past philosophers: Spinoza had weakness of character so he had to create complex moral systems, good people don't need ethics to keep themselves in check T.H. White... And Schopenhauer became afraid of his philosophy and who wouldn't honestly, tho it is not fair to extend for everything, he was super compassionate guy like kindest guy that ever lived... And he is right about 95% of things... Also we evolved in jungle and have our needs and drives, there is like this raw power in center, tho we could evolve into something else like some future peaceful alien civilization i guess... It might not be necessarily metaphysical property, but mere psychological, ppl are super cancer so it is hard to know... We are still wired from stone-age... Still Deleuze is right about these expressions, you do not need morals to be good person, it is just absolute truth for you: you do not care for truth and what others thing, this is your truth and you try to affirm extent it on your environment... Either way it is cancer life is so terrible it can exist only upon lie, nietzsche and evolution align in this: evolution hides truths unless they are beneficial for survival, the more successful the organism is the less truth it sees, conversely organisms which saw reality closer to is simply did extinct: scholarcommons.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=phi Most ppl want sex/money don't care about love, it is material ugly, after women has children she starts to get ugly slowly... Schopenhauer on women, he is right about 95% things... Men of higher status can treat other men less harsly, because there is more expressed difference between their status, while women there is less gap between their rank, so lady treats her maid badly... Human history was mostly dominated by power struggles, it is so 1 dimensional, there is nothing else... And same only very small % can get to any real power, 99.999% are just slaves... What are normal ppl are supposed to strive for, you will flip burgers in McDonald rest of your life and they manager hires someone else after 30 years for promotion. I had divine mania i saw suffering of whole world, i align mostly with schopenhauer, tho i agree he was too negative sometimes... Life essentially sucks hard! I can see my whole life ahead all possibilities before it even happened and i get bored... Suffering outweights pain mostly and even little beauty and goodness is like anticlimatic release of suffering in most cases, everyone suffers one way or another... Life is absurd, i don't care if rich steal and cheat, or are disgustingly rich but if 1mld. ppl suffer from famine and students have to prostitute themselves... Pedophiles in every school, even in my high school was one and i live in like eu super chill country yet... Yeah no one really saw this, but you would have to see everything that happened from all sides to all ppl, and ofc. ppl are overly positive, you cannot speak the truth "no one is more hated than one who speaks the truth" life is based on illusions/lies and no one will admit this. Just watch david goggings, you can try to work on yourself in small city and doing your think even be friendly to ppl: they will get literally poisonous snakes and try to push you down and steal/destroy what you have... Girl which was repeatedly refused by a guy which was polite but clear that he doesn't want her very obviously, she had mental issues, but still: she framed his girfriend as witch so she was burned alive, there was last burning in 20th century if you don't belive me google this shit out. Schopenhauer said: that extreme tragedy becomes comedy. While Nietzsche was smarter than Schopenhauer, Schopenhauer was more rational (appolonian) and Nietzsche more dyonesian... Nietzsche himself was pessimist he said who would come to know full truth of reality would perish, he realized life was hell, unfathomable necessity and need for values and art and for affirming life otherwise we would cause ourselves infinite torture... Both talked about it albeit no one said it directly, as Nietzsche wrote for higher men and he knows if author is understood that it leads to abyss, so he preferred to be misunderstood by majority... Tho his sister, nazis and today corporations and woke scum, unfortunately spread a lot of misinformation about him. If someone religious sees e.g. his false accusation of being antisemitic, or women about sexism: they won't read him. It is insane you can met individuals which have so strong opinions about him that he was this, or nihilist, while they can't even google one fucking article. Ppl are so insecure, they will tell you it is you always, ppl want to contradict you... IF you are polite then they will walk over you and if you are more firm they say you are mean and give you 100 labels... Ppl evolved to manipulate truth for their benefits, not to get to truth, "history is written by victors" there are only interpretations which doesn't mean yet there is no objective truth, nevertheless we can't know it as everything we get a priory from our senses... Most adults are children, we are ruled by fools and children literally... It was found success is down to luck and top rich are not even smarter than masses... I had existential feeling that i figured out how it is, but i am in hell stuck with 1iq bacteria and i cannot change it and i will suffer this loneliness forever and all tortures... No one under 160Iq understands me and even 140/150IQs resist me in every word...
@@gaius_octavius It is not like you would believe me but this is what i get from 99.999% ppl, but 160IQs, or 60 years old+ even world class scientists called me too mature on my age... I have complex personality, but i never could show it anywhere. Even seal trainee called me too mature for my age, no wonder i am fucked up. I was like adult in child's body... There is no way you will believe me and ofc. everyone will assume that (because opposite is statistically improbable) about you and be contrarian... Ppl want to see other ppl down, because they are egoistic, insecure, just watch David Goggins...
@@gaius_octavius And you are here answering my comments, not having better things to do with your life :) Watch David Goggins, when ppl try and just work on their life and are humble, still everyone around them tells them: "dude what you are doing, you are this, or that" and want to keep you down, because they know they cannot do it. Watch david goggins - one of most humble unselfish person ever and still he gets so many haters... Literally Sabine Hossenfelder, seal trainee and 60 years old ex-mensa psychologist, multiple 160IQs telling me opposite than 99.999%+ ppl, why would i listen random shitter on internet like you... You are just slave to evolution, you don't even have autonomy... You are too insecure to even consider this might be true, you are not even living person but low level algorithm thinking its person, i doubt ppl like you have even consciousness, you are living clique... It is annoying imagine if everyone in your life tells you things like that and resist you. Also it is not like you care about me, if you tell people their values are wrong: they will even more firmly believe in them... It is easy judging other ppl... Free will not even real, how absurd is that? You are just slave not even knowing and never will know, life is just absurd...
You seem like a very interesting person. I encourage you to go into content creation. I enjoyed reading what you commented.
i am 90iq demented trash genius that was tortured to death... 160IQs says i am extremely intelligent, but even 140/150iqs bullied me to death, and my life is ruined forever, i am done...@@resonanceexperience
I loved Greene's books- Power and Seduction were awesome! Learned a tremendous amount.
Does anyone know how much of a believer peterson is in the will to power concept? Because lately he has been counterargumentative against the idea of power as a motivational factor in society at large
Well, yes. It seems he is critical of the postmodernists for example, especially people like Foucault (who was definitely a Nietzschian). It seems he suspected him of only being interested in power to obfuscate morality and actualise his rather perverted desires haha
These Nietzschians are like Freudians who accept the same fundamental premise, but depart wildly with regard to their conclusions or implementation.
Is that what you're referring to?
Peterson is a moralist, that's why he can't understand Nietzsche. He scans everything with christian morality
Peterson talking about Nietzsche is so cringe.
You're bound to characterize Nietzsche falsely when you are only capable of seeing things from a largely Christian perspective like Peterson.
@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060I agree but he also praised Cbristianity for having a novel solution for lifting the "Guilt" and "Bad conscience" which otherwise would lead to Nihilism (Which he predicted).
Peterson is the personification of cringe.
@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 How does that make sense?
1. N spoke fondly of the old testament, and P have focused a deep lecture on the OT.
Beyond Good and Evil, Part III, Aphorism 52.
On the Genealogy of Morals, Third Essay, section 22.
Religion wasn't really the issue, but it became an issue when you removed the belief in an afterlife/god. When the foundation itself was removed, the structure on top would collapse, this is his contention with the new testament/modern science unveiling the belief structure beneath it all. My interpretation is therefor predicated on the fact that P genuinely believe.
2. Just like N, P never sought value in the church and never goes to church.
3. N turned on Schopenhauer anti life view, and so does P against doomers who welcome a world without humans. He describes certain doom and gloom environmentalists as negaters of life itself, just like N negated ascetics. In other words, they're unhealthy for existence itself.
This is an observation, that they have similarities, not intended as a conclusion by me. Are you as limited by your anti christian ideology, as you think P is limited by his?