Why Do I Hate Seiko? | the Seiko SARB033 Revisited
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Why Do I Hate Seiko? | the Seiko SARB033 Revisited on the JustBlueFish CZcams channel, home of high quality wristwatch and horology related reviews and videos.
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I've been accused of being a Seiko hater. Because I am critical of the changes that have been happening at Seiko and for their fairly poor quality control, everyone assumes I hate the brand. I don't hate Seiko, they make a lot of cool watches, and as a matter of fact the SARB033 is the only watch I've ever sold that I regret.
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Thanks for watching!
#Seiko #Hater #SARB033
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Will do.
Title: Why do I hate Seiko?
Video: "I don't hate Seiko"
The title is not him acknowledging he hated Seiko, rather he is repeating an accusation that he hated Seiko.
“I would love to see the SARB 033 come back”
Seiko: “prospex logo goes brrrr”
first they issue a limited edition $9000 version. and then they issue a $5000 edition with three colorways and a funny case size
Their price increase over the years without improving QC or what they are offering is what turned me off. I remember when the second gen Monsters were around for ~$200 , and it was worth it. Now ? 3rd/4th gen Monster being $550-600 with the SAME features as the $200 Monster ? No thanks
It is kinda sad.
geckdad It not just the same poor qc, it is even worse qc! The old bad qc is looking pretty good compared to their new lower level of qc.
I remember getting my first gen monster made in japan for $210 back in 2012.
@@onemoretime8045 Bought my first gen Orange Monster for about the same time from Long Island Watch. Still have it with box, manual, hangtag, & pillow.
@@StratBurst92 That's a keeper. Worth about three times as much as you bought it for now!!!
I love Seiko. That does not mean that I don't have a problem with them. The biggest issue is the increase in price while there are still the same QC issues as years before.
If I buy a watch for 400 - 500$ I expect it to have an aligned bezel, chapter ring and dial.
Some Micro Brands really start to kick Seiko's butt in certain segments.
Ya the QC is weird. I can tolerate it because as long as you buy from a good vendor if you get a bad one you can just return it. But it would be nice to not have to deal with the hassle.
Do seiko increase the price? Or does the price go up because of the demand at the retailers who stock them
@mandeep Verdi Seiko brings out new models, that offer nothing over the old ones in terms of quality or features, but charge more. They don't really raise the prices on old models, they just discontinue them.
mandeep Virdee
Both
I hate thinking how many years I have been buying, owning, wearing Seiko watches alongside numerous other watch brands. Of late however, my tolerance for Seiko QC issues has shrunk to zero. Several straws broke this camels back: My 1-2 month old Prospex Automatic Diver suddenly stopped running. My trusted AD (dealer) encouraged me to return it and purchase a fresh one rather than have mine repaired. Why? Because this experience with Seiko watches had become far too common, and repaired Seiko’s frequently failed repeatedly. Seiko repair turn-around time was an outrageous several months! By comparison, when one of my Luminox Quartz watches stopped running after a couple years, I was encouraged by my dealer to send it to the Luminox repair shop in Rhode Island. Full of dread, I followed his advice. The watch was back on my wrist one week later with a new movement, a thorough printed test report, and an additional one year warranty! Seiko sealed their fate, after I bought a Invicta Automatic Diver on a whim for approximately 1/10 the cost of the Seiko Prospex. The Invicta has a Seiko movement, and has been accurate to within a few seconds fast per month! The Invicta chapter ring lines up properly, and overall fit and finish is great. Since then, I have purchased five more Invicta Automatic Pro Diver and Grand Divers , and all of them function equally well. I can’t help wondering why Invicta can put a Seiko movement in an Invicta watch and have it perform flawlessly, but Seiko puts a Seiko movement in a watch bearing their own name resulting in an overpriced piece of junk. I am also disappointed that so many reviewers pan Invicta, but praise Seiko at the same time. I own more than a few watches. I absolutely know a good one from a not so good one, and have been known to purchase a watch brand simply to verify the believability of a reviewer, good or bad. I have also unsubscribed from a channel because the reviews it posted were misleading. Thank YOU, Guy, for posting honest watch reviews like this one. Keep up your good work.
Thanks for sharing your experience and for the support James. Seiko has cool designs, and that’s about it. So many problems with their quality and reliability. I own an SKX and recently I was gifted a SARB033. 2 of my favorite designs. But I won’t buy anymore unless something changes.
One theory I've heard as to why the movements are so hit or miss is that it's actually just another form of QC issue with regard to improper lubrication during assembly. Spencer Klein did a full teardown/rebuild service of a recent 6R15 model and was able to vastly improve the accuracy by cleaning everything up and lubing properly. That makes more sense to me than the movements being inherently "bad", since for example Grand Seiko and some of the higher end Presage pieces have some of the same mechanical DNA, but receive better QC and attention to detail (hence the higher price). Of course, that's certainly no excuse for Seiko to "phone it in" on their lower end models...but as you mentioned, it may be that they're just putting all their focus on the FOMO/LE/collectibility angle and assuming that most people don't care much about accuracy. (And at the rate the LE stuff sells out, that approach seems to be working for them, unfortunately.)
I've heard of that Spencer Klein story, but where is it? Did he do a video, or write an article. I've never been able to find it.
@@JustBlueFish He talks about it at the end of this video.
czcams.com/video/NVH1oG1O43M/video.html
I agree. My experience is that any 'entry level' brand using a 2824/SW200 keeps far better time. That never used to be a problem for me because Seikos were cheap and you got what you paid for. Now that their prices have marched upwards I would much rather have a Tissot, Longines, Oris, or similar.
Or like me got a Citizen Promaster 8204 NY0040-17L
You are absolutely right: Seiko is upping pricing, and lowering specs (and quality) and quality at the same time
Anything to make a buck i guess.
My Hamilton Kahki field runs so accurate, I only reset the time every 2 months when I have to adjust the date, its about 1.5 minutes slow by then. Amazing piece
Mine is super accurate too.
My Hamilton railroad skeleton averages +1 sec/day. It simply amazes me.
My Longines is super accurate as well - a well calibrated ETA seems about as good as anything.
My seiko 5 is garbage. I sent it back to the service center 2 weeks after I bought it as it was running around +35seconds a day. It got worse after the service and ran around -45 seconds a day. I gave up and now it remained in my drawer indefinitely.
30 days past September, April June and November? I still have no idea how many days are NOT IN FEBRUARY. Also does anyone else like when your watch stops so you know how long its been since you used it? DATE COMPLICATION SPOILER ALERT.
I'm on the same page. Had a Sarb033, sent it back. Then after a while I moved on to other brands. A big problem is that they keep raising prices and lowering specs. They're playing a game that they will lose. #NoThanks
I liked the sarb033. But dissapointed with the big gap between the clasp and bracelet.
That’s mildly annoying, but the bigger issue with the clasp is the lack of microadjust.
@@JustBlueFish luckily it fit my wrist perfect. And didn't need to adjust the clasp. The bracelet felt nice and soft. But when I looked down at my inner wrist. Didn't like seeing the big gap.
Yeah, it's weird isn't it? Not like it was imposed by machining tolerances or anything, wouldn't have been difficult to make the clasp more flush. It bugged me enough to put mine on a strap.
@@UsernameInvalidTHIS first clasp I seen with a gap like that. Tried some cheap bracelet. But end links didn't fit good. Didn't want to pay £80 for a strapcode bracelet. Sold the sarb.might buy again one day.
That peeved me also.
I love seiko, I own four of their watches, I will probably buy a couple more but I have to admit that your points are legitimately valid.
It’s ok to like them, even with their short comings. I love Gibson guitars and they are full of issues.
Lol Gibson’s. Even customs aren’t perfect, I feel your pain
@@nathan2483 the benefit of teles or strats, can swap any part or even body/neck like lego if you dont like it as is
I do agree. Seiko was way better some years ago than nowadays. Too much hype about a subpar brand now. Hope they will go back to their old ways.
Just snatched a Hamilton Khaki King, used, with the ETA 2834 at $350 from Japan. It comes in a great condition. No sign of water damage inside the crystal, +2 s/d. Prefer this one rather than the inflated SARB-033.
Good pickup. Enjoy it!
Wow. As accurate as an Omega. Very nice.
Yeah, got it for a good price simply because it no longer has the original box and paperwork. But, I don't have any plan to sell it anyway.
Why would anyone criticize/dislike/hate Seiko?
Maybe because everyone else seems too pumped up about anything they currently offer, in the current state of the market...
I'm with you, here's a great example; when I go to the flea market and find an overpriced Seiko, it usually doesn't work right (movement issues, general sketchiness etc.) BUT I have bought Seiko's from 1990's for $5 from the same flea market where the vendor did not know what they had (case back is engraved) that keep hella good time. I went to an authorized Seiko dealer in SF on Mission St. and tried to offer a Longines Hydroconquest for trade for the gold turtle and they said no, the Hydroconquest has a cheap ETA movement he said. LOL!!!
I picked a SNK809 as my first automatic because that's what CZcams watch channels seemed to suggest as a first automatic. I enjoyed it, but immediately saw issues that I wouldn't be content living with long term. I then went out and picked up a Hamilton Khaki Pilot "Interstellar", and will never go back to an "affordable" Seiko.
I was in the same boat more or less, but went snk809 to Hamilton Khaki Field.
@@JustBlueFish It's hard to beat the Hamilton Khaki collection for their price. I went to the AD looking for a Khaki King which they didn't have in stock, and while they did the stock check their other locations I tried on the "Interstellar" or "Cooper" and fell in love with it.
Strong words. While I don't hate Seiko, I definitely have stopped doing business with them. Lack of quality control, price hikes without justification, obsolete movements. Need I say more?
Well said. I love the Seiko brand and heritage, and love my SARB033 and my SKX007. But won't buy them now because of the superior alternatives at the same price points. I'm voting with my dollars, and I'll bet there's a lot of others like me.
I love the SARB033 so much, I even happened to buy 2 when I went hunting some time ago and decided to keep the 2nd taking the discontinuation into consideration. I will never feel bad about my watch no matter what Seiko does wrong these days. I do not care about brands. Marketing wants you to spend your time thinking about their brands, but why should you?
A lot of the comments here say something like "Yeah Seiko has quality control issues and their movements are crappy, but if you want accuracy get a Swiss movement like the 2824." I can excuse a poor movement in a $200 skx, but a $500-$1000 Seiko with hardlex and an inconsistent 6r15 movement is unacceptable. Other brands in that range (including micros) give you Sapphire and a quality Swiss movement. Seiko could easily match that quality. They choose not to.
What Seiko is $500+ Without a sapphire crystal?
@@sinkorswimstars The Turtle, for one. $525 on LIW and hardlex crystal
And same with the Monster
@@tombeatty4792 well. Not all Seikos offer the best value prop.
My SARB033 is a very consistent -2 to +4. I can get it to speed up or slow down by varying the position on the nightstand, but not to the extent you're showing here. Looks to me like that one needs a service.
You’ve found a unicorn! I’m joking obviously, but yeah while you will find good ones like yours you are just as likely to find one that keeps rubbish time. I’m done flipping coins and hoping to get lucky.
How long you've had it for? I hear accuracy drops after 6mo to a year and thereafter,
@@valueink It's true, but how is that even a thing? I'd love to hear a watchmaker chime in.
@@valueink I've had mine for a year and a half
I bought a brand new rolex oyster perpetual 39mm and when I put it next to my sarb 035 I can’t believe how seiko looks like a 2k watch.I think seiko makes great watches for the price like no other can with in house movement.Only think I agree with you is their quality control is bad.I have a Seiko shogun which I love but came with misaligned chapter ring which upset me for a while but I love the watch soo much I had to let it go.Both Seiko watches I mentioned has 6r15 and unlike you mines are as accurate as automatic watches get.
An ADVISE: If accuracy is imprtant to you, get one of the GS's quartz like SBGN003 or any other quartz model, these watches are dead accurate, well sized, well finished and at good prices "relatively" and you will not worry about going into long process servicing in the future. Believe me servicing a high-end watch is a nightmare! For example to service a normal jlc will cost you about $2000 and waste at least five month of time.
Few days ago I compared four watches ( omega prestige, omega aqua terra 41, gs sbgj201, rolex dj 41 ) in five positions within 24hours and the reference was a gs quartz, guess what?! The gs was the most accurate by -1 second and the rolex came after by +2 seconds, a month ago the rates were different!
Even for the high-end mechanical watches the inconsistency for time keeping is present.
Thanks.
Thanks for watching and the suggestions.
@@JustBlueFish you're most welcome.
I got my SARB about a year ago, it wasn't really accurate (about 25-35s/day). I sent it to officiall Seiko service for regulation (20$), it is running from +1 to +5 after being regulated, it works perfectly fine aftrr the regulation to this day.
I have new interest in watches and your opinion is refreshing that it refers to factual evidence and that you convey the message clear and consice without pissing on people along the way.
I wear watches on my wrist and not on a time grapher. My presage Made in Japan with a simple 4r36 is consistently precise as my brand new rolex op. Never had these kind of issues with my several Seikos. They are clearly trying to extract more profits from their products but still there are lots of undervalued pearls. Just my opinione and experience of course.
0 does in fact fall within the range of -25/+15, some of them will keep accurate time purely by chance. Most of my Seikos don't keep good time at all.
@@bigidiot123 I just wanna chime in and say I've had my presage for 8 months now, and it consistently runs about -3 to -5 seconds per day. However, I will admit that my other seiko watch (not presage line, but same movement) runs at -6 to -12 seconds per day. It really is a gamble.
I agree with you 100%. I wore a seiko 17 years in a row. 0 problems. I still have it today. I bought a sarb 033 and I was shocked about the accuracy, the leather strap was like cheap plastic, huuh! Keep up , man
@Douglas Hamner you are right mamen. I changed it from a presage! And that is much more expensive !
I'm with you Guy, I have had 6 Seikos, not a single one with an aligned chapter ring. The time deviation I used to managed it with different positions overnight, I got bored doing that.
When I got my first Hamilton, I got really surprised how accurate was. Now I have an Omega SMP 300 2018 and this a whole new world...
Manuel , I love the way you described your awakening. I am at over 125 watches and still mad. Ever time I whisper kindly to my wife's ear she tells me : I know you , you want an another watch! Enjoy this beautiful world. And find yourself making 100 km in order to fix a pinpoint defect in a watch! It is worth it 100%
There is not any sense comparing a Seiko 300$ watch with a really expensive Omega taht is listing for 5K$... It obviously is a new world...
Guy, I think you just saved me from buying another Seiko (a diver). I own a SARB and I think your points are very valid.
For me only +15 seconds max is acceptable and no less than -5 seconds a day. My SARB033 is around +5-7 seconds a day.
Wow, lots of good comments. A totally reasonable analysis, congrats. It bugs me that they are putting 6R15 into $800-$1000+ watches. Those should be +/- 10 seconds max. I think the cases and dials for SKX are great for the $, but the movement is not a highlight. I have a SARB065 (Cocktail Time!) which again is beautiful to look at, but the accuracy is not good. I agree with the comment that probably these movements are savable with more care in lubrication and cleaning-I think many of us would pay more to get tighter performance specs. They should be able to do this. Great discussion.
Dr Altman I have a cocktail time as well. As an occasional put the watch on, it’s ok. But as a regular wear watch the movement makes it garbage. It can’t even keep semi decent time on my winder.
as a seiko fanboy, i could say that your points are valid. the quality control is not good, their offerings no longer on the "value" side. however, i think the accuracy of a watch should not be the decisive factor for the people who are purchasing relatively affordable watches. people do not buy skx for accuracy. sarb may compensate it's accuracy with better finishing. mass produced eta movements -or equivalents- with decent accuracy is certainly desirable in that price range. but it does not really matter in the end: either you fall in love with a watch or you don't.
Yes, we do buy Seikos for their accuracy. You wouldn't want to pay $1000 for a Seiko which runs -60s/d would you? What about -300?
I am right there with you! I know you did this video a little while back not sure why I haven’t seen it. I have a lot of Seiko watches in my collection. SXX (3), SAB017 Alpinist, a SARB 033, and 5 more various models...I have not purchased any new in over a year, And I’m actually giving a couple away as gifts. The rising prices, Re-issuing watches with little or no specification/future upgrades Has really turned me off to the brand… a Brand that used to be my favourite. For me the final straw Was the so called SKX replacement...the 5KX. It’s All the things wrong with seiko rolled up into one watch! Increased the price And took away the things that made it a dive watch...Turned it into a dive ‘style’ fashion watch. Seiko Re-Released the (new??) alpinist With a couple of minimal upgrades And DOUBLED the price...I’m sure they will release the ‘new’ SARB very soon. Let’s see how bad they must start one up! Boo Seiko booooo....!
Hi Guy, I can fully understand your veiws and also agree, I remember a comment awhile ago on a another watch channel where they stated if you want to avoid any of the possible QC issues then go straight to buying a GS, it may sound extreme but I can't help thinking they have a point.
The flaw in that comment is most people with looking at Seiko don’t have Grand Seiko budgets, but you should still be able to expect a well made and accurate watch for +/- $500.
I regulated my SARB035 in four positions. Rate range between the positions is +15 to -20sec a day. I had to regulate it based on how I wear and store it. I average +6 sec a day. Amplitude sucks too for a 1 year old watch. I cant get rid of it though as I love the look so much and at the price there's nothing else I like. Oh and I have a SARB033 and SARB017. I havent put them on the grapher and I dont think I will.
Was it difficult to regulate as heard they are hit and miss?
People are generally not buying Seiko`s with accuracy as number one requirement
Probably true. And it gives Seiko no insensitive to improve unfortunately.
But there’s truly no better entry into automatics, yes the micro brands are better quality etc. but you’re not buying micro’s from the local jewellery store either.
"But there’s truly no better entry into automatics" -- Hamilton, Certina, both beat Seiko to a pulp. Even Tissot is levels above.
mountainhobo I can’t deny you’re correct, I even own a couple of tissot’s. but all of those brands you mentioned (at least in Australia) aren’t even close to as easy to get as seiko. I had to hunt down my tissot’s and my Hamilton. I always try to buy from bricks and mortar stores if I can.
"all of those brands you mentioned (at least in Australia) aren’t even close to as easy to get as seiko" - I live in Silicon Valley, and it is a retail desert. You can't buy any watches at brick and mortar outside of fashion quartz watches, G-Shock, and Apple watches. So, for me it makes no difference. ;)
Ha. I also owned the SARB033, only to sell it and miss/regret it later. Ended up picking it up again and this time I appreciate the subtle nuances much more. I love Seiko but that doesn't mean they're perfect, and doesn't mean I'm happy with all of their choices. QC issues, questionable spec choices on certain models, etc.
It’s ok to like them, despite the problems. I still like my SKX. I’m just not running out to buy more.
Thank you for speaking out what many think. You are a man of integrity .You are so right. Buying a Seiko is like gambling because of the bad quality control. I don't like gambling.
Agreed, I only gamble when I’m at a poker table. Not with watches.
wow, that means i have won a bet,,,
@@JustBlueFishCitizen blows Seiko out of the fecking water.
I’ve regulated many watches, many brands, and many seikos. Here’s what I figured out though, and it might just be a fluke. My seikos (4R, 6R same really just one has a 10 hrs more power reserve) don’t perform their best when regulated to a beat rate error of 0.0 like most watches. The sweet spot for me was about 1.2 ms. I then regulated the watch around that and they kept much better time. My SARY055 keeps perfect time with only about a 5 second deviation per orientation. Not great but good. Also check it for magnetism I’ve never had a seiko deviate so much, not like that SARB you have.
Interesting. I think I made that observation as well when dealing with one of the first movements I regulated, which happened to be a 4R or 6R.
Sarb is my favourite watch. On a leather its just wow
I’ve owned multiple Seiko’s over time, and my SARB035 is the ONLY ONE that doesn’t have something wrong with it. All the others suffered from misaligned chapter rings and dials, locked up bezels, and hair stuck on the hands. I love my SARB035 and my poorly running, awful bezeled, misaligned chapter ringed SKX009 for sentimental reasons, but I won’t buy any more watches from the brand until they clean up their QC, which doesn’t seem like it will happen anytime soon.
The Hamilton H70455733 is definitely a better value at $400 new vs $500+ used for the Sarb. Better specs and can work as a dress watch on a leather strap or as a everyday watch on a canvas or nato strap.
The problem is, their gain in popularity, mainly online, allows them to get away with it because of their rising demand.
It’s time to release some videos slagging them off to bring that demand down lol
Thanks for watching.
Hi, thank you for a very interesting point of view, I have also an SARB033 and noticed that under certain occasions is really weird, with that I mean that after couple of days im already off some minutes. Now If I would have an vintage watch like an old Omega from 60' this would be perfectly acceptable, but for a watch which is couple of years old, this is bad. Since you mentioned that Seiko is out for you as far affordable watches goes, which ones would you choose ?
Hamilton is at the top of my list. I’ve liked every one I’ve had.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews hi which model khaki king I was lately considering either the mido ocean star captain which should have a similar to the hamilton or glycine combat sub
Interesting points made here Guy but with that said I still love the brand . I will continue to buy Seiko watches as well as Orient but to each his own 👍🏻
The Sarb033 is probably to date their best under 1k watch they have released onto the market for a decade. Seiko are dropping the ball.
The problem is that Steinhart is asking the same prices and is actually much better
Steinhart lack the prestige of Seiko. Their most popular pieces are Submariner homages with movements someone else made.
"Steinhart lack the prestige of Seiko" -- Seiko has prestige?
@@mountainhobo Yes.
You have to be joking, or you live in North Korea.
@@mountainhobo They have prestige in the watch community. To question that simply broadcasts that you are not a watch guy. They have been making watches since 1881, have always used in house movements, provide quality pieces at each price point from $100-$10,0000, have contributed numerous innovations to horology and have some original and classic designs. This is why one finds even entry level seikos in the luxury watch collections.
The Seiko 5s lkke the snkl15 are now the value proposition.
I had a Sarb, bought it for $300 new. The dial came misaligned. After a couple years it took a very slight knock. That killed the power reserve and set the watch running 30 seconds slow a day even after regulation. Now It looks good in my junk drawer.
I almost dove into Seiko, as a newbie 3 years ago. But I thought the watches were unappealing if not downright ugly.
My latest watch is a Captain Willard homage, for $116. It has a Seiko movement.
After a month on wrist, it stays within 3 seconds. Incredible!!
We almost all dive into Seiko when we are new to the hobby.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews : and I did indirectly , with InvictaProDiver as the first (Seiko movement), then Seiko SNZH as the second one. (fifty-five fathoms mod)
How do you feel about Grand Seiko and its Spring Drive movement?
I like it.
You cannot expect BMW perfomance from a 1.1 liter Hyundai engine...had +10 watches with 6R15 and a few 4R movements...most run averaged around +2 to +8 everyday (tracked with app, most cases over several weeks)...1 or 2 had been run way off but could be regulated to very good results...sure the positional variations are higher than on a 2824 e.g. but you exaggerate that in your video based on how many examples?...QC issues aside, a watch with 6R15 e.g. can be a an very accurate everyday companion.
I bought a sarb033 over a year ago, after a few months the accuracy was appalling! Wasn't going to pay someone to fix it so looked up videos on how to fix it, and I did. It's now f***ing accurate probably around -/+6 seconds a day. That's just my experience. Cheers
Great to hear someone speaking for the watch community and not blindly endorsing Seiko. Plenty of youtube channels are selling seiko koolaid to unsuspecting new buyers.While they possibly were an affordable watch at some point, their watches are just overpriced and often much inferior to Swiss brands. Why buy a cheap brand like Seiko when you can possibly buy a similar priced Swiss watch for similar price.
Gurdeep Singh I agree and I don’t. Seiko finishing is often better than an equivalent priced Swiss watch esp The cocktail time has a sensational quality dial for a relatively low price. However it’s some of the movements and bracelets that can really let Seiko down badly.
Outstanding video guy and very hard to argue any of your points I own three seiko's they all keep relatively good time hopefully that remains to be the case thanks for the great vid
It reminds me of my former surgeon senior. Answer to anything....
Interesting aspect talking about accuracy. Not many youtubers talk about that. Can you expand further into comparing movements on the timegrapher at different positions? Eg. Seiko 6R, vs 2824 at different grades, vs Rolex vs Omega's METAS? It'll be interesting to see for sure
2824>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>6R, period!
hippoo25 i think so but let’s see itnon the timegrapher instead of repeating the hearsay.
I haven't seen anyone checking watches in different position before today. Just One More Watch is checking all the dodgy Chinese watches in one position and says, yeah, that's good. I wonder how many minutes they might be losing in horizontal position.
@@smashexentertainment676 good point
@Felix Peiper thanks a lot for the info. i suspect that the ETA 2824 is still superior to the Seiko 6Rs. if you're interested you can search this keywords "sjx watches horological density factor" on quantitatively comparing different calibres although Seiko is not included. interested to see how the miyota based La Joux Perrets compare to ETA.
Right on. I bought the SARB033 a few years ago but I never wear it because the accuracy annoys me.
They are hit or miss. That’s why I stay away.
I have a MIJ version SARB065 don't find such a problem.
Completely agree with the argument. I have a SARB035 and I love it, but getting to be accurate based on my daily routine was very difficult. If someone else borrows my watch and have a different daily routine, I am pretty sure the accuracy will change drastically. You are right about the new direction they are taking and it is well summarized in your video.
The positional variance is just too wide to get reliable accurate timekeeping on a lot of these watches. It’s a shame, they have a lot of other things going for them.
You mention you don't think Seiko are a good entry level manufacturer for newcomers any more; just curious, who do you think is now?
Orient.
@@gigagdragoon2345 So a Seiko sub-brand? Are their QC likely to be very different to the parent?
@@SirLoinOfsteak85 Brother, I'll give you a comparison of suggested retail price from their USA websites for watches that compete for the same purpose with the same specs. Orient Bambino FAC00005W0 ($300) vs Seiko Presage SRPB43 ($425). Orient Triton RA-EL0001B00A ($710) vs Seiko Prospex SPB077 ($1,050). Those Orients can actually be had from an authorized dealer for more than 30% off too. Isn't it obvious, Seiko is a complete rip off now. No one complains about QC issues in even $350? I'm just going to boycott Seiko until they fix themselves.
I have owned Hundreds of watches. Yet I have thrown so many Seiko's in the Trash back in the day that it's humbling. Today I own maybe 5. All Monsters. Wore my Orange monster for 10 years until it slowed to a crawl. Bought another never worn on e-bay for 125. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching buddy!
The title almost put me off, but I'm glad I watched. I'm a Seiko fanboy! I have the SARB033 and the SKX007, but at the end of the day, mechanical watches are a bit of a palava, and faffing about with the day/date on the SKX every month is at best so-so! With that said, I love them both and they are both keepers. However, for ease of use, and that all important accuracy, I'm currently saving for the quartz driven SBGX261. We agree!
Mido Baroncelli (M86004188) seems to be a nice alternative to the SARB033
Totally agree with you!!!!
The SARB033 was the watch that got me started in watches about four years ago. I still have it, and still really like the look and how it wears. I wore it a lot the first two years I had it. Since then I bought a SBGX261, and that one gets more time. I do still love the SARB033 though, and it's one I'll never sell.
The SARB is a lot of peoples gateway drug into the watch hobby.
Wow...you and I both had a love affair with the SARB...great thoughts. Side note, your audio quality is 10x better than mine.
It's the watch I hate to love, or do I love to hate it? I don't know. For audio quality, I use a Rode SmartLav+ Mic plugged into my iphone and recorded on an app separate from the video. Then I pull the audio off, compress it on the computer, then edit in with the video. It's pretty easy if you want to do something similar feel free to get ahold of me if you need help - justbluefish@gmail.com
I appreciate the tip, when I can find more time to spend on CZcams I’ll dig into it. Thanks for the help sir! Great quality videos.
Hello my friends. Could you tell me the performance and quality of seiko kinetic and Prospex series?? Maybe make a review video or something. Also about seiko solar if its possible. Thank you. Expecting your responses.
As a Seiko fan I have 3 Sarb035, Sarx045, and Sumo I am a bit worried about Seiko's current direction. I intend to buy a Tuna next but I wonder if that's the last Seiko I get for quite some time.
I think Seiko will look much different in 2-3 years. But it’s just a guess.
We all pretend as if a Seiko isn’t in the business of making money. Yes I agree, QC needs to be better on the part of seiko (especially with their lower end affordable watches), but come on, comparably, the brand still offers great value for the money. Hamilton, Tissot and comparable brands fall short with reliability and durability. Seiko rarely fails to give the customer a reliable piece that will last. I still LOVE the brand, but I can see why some may be frustrated with the few glitches.
Thanks for watching.
I agree with you but Seiko is only doing what most companies do in America. They make you pay more for a lesser product!!! It happens in the food industry so why not the watch industry? I HATE it myself but there is nothing we can do about it unless we choose NOT to buy their products. Used or older watch models work for me lately. It's an outrage and a Catch 22!!! Good information, thx!
Thank you!
I had a very interesting experience with my SARB033. I got mine from SEIJA KOBAYASHI in 2013. Out of the box, resting in the dial-up position, it was running 2"++per day. This lasted about a year. Then it started running faster, up to 30"++Then it slowed, until it was consistently running -- 45 O.D in all 7 resting positions. I was so sad, as i AD❤️RE this little watch. So i sadly buried it in its box & consigned it ti The Oblivion of The Watch Drawer. But i could NOT part with it! I had FAITH in my SARB033! I managed to find An Independent Watchmaker & he said the movement was "Dry". So he overhauled it & when it was returned, it was running 'tween 10-15"++ in ALL resting positions. Now i am an Accurate Mechanical Watch OBSESSIVE! I have A Seiko 5 SNK809 that is 1"++ P.D! resting dial up. REALLY! So i diligently tested the SARB033 in all 7 positions & in the HANGING-Position, got it down to 5"++ P.D! I think maybe when these watches were made, the "C" Iteration of the 6R15 had sat long on the shelf & dried out! But, for me, perseverance with Your mechanical reaps Ample Rewards & is The Integral part of Our Hobby.
Same quality, prices keep going up. The SKX in UK is now over 300 pounds = $364. Show me where its under $200 like everyone is saying!
I haven’t priced the SKX out in years. No idea what the current market looks like. But I’ve bought several in the past for $200-$225.
Creation Watches (who I used and can recommend) £228, and Joma Shop (who I haven't, but hear good things) £198 + tax, both sell to the UK. Buying from Creation in the past, I believe the watches came from their EU warehouse and I didn't have to pay any additional duties or taxes. That seems to be the general experience for UK buyers. There was something funny like they said they would send the box separately, if I recall, but the watch arrived in the correct box with warranty etc. anyway.
Your experience matches mine when it comes to inaccuracy, and you are the first youtuber that i have heard adress this issue! I bought 3 seikos in the past, 2 ran fine within specification but the third one i bought which was the most expensive ( Seiko SRPD51) literally ran 2-3 minutes to fast per day... I have no idea how that passed quality control, when you buy a 240 euro watch you should hope it does the one thing it was designed for right. After this malfunction (took almost 9 weeks to get it repaired) it left a sour taste in my mouth and wont be buying any seiko's in the near future. I do love the looks of them though, but the quality control is non existent
That SARB movement is clearly ready for a service. What you are doing there is like taking a car, drive it for 45000km without changing oil and airfilter and then put it (as it is) on a dymo. That's not fair at all!
I mean, the watch is less than a year old, so I’d thats the case it’s like driving a car for 12k mikes and it needs a new engine.
@@JustBlueFish I have currently 6 or 7 Seiko's in collection, all of them on my timegrapher are within +-6/day and 260+ amplitude... I don't know what's up with that sarb but either it was low on charge or needed a cleaning. Damn, mine keep even better times than some of my Rollies...
Orient gives you 3 times as much for less than half the price
Their new dive watch (the Kamasu?) looks an absolute winner at the price.
My two Orients are my most accurate watches.
Another great video Guy. I leave to agree with you about Seiko. They are by far the the most inconsistent watches on the market. I love my SRPC91 Save The Ocean Turtle but it is the most inaccurate watches that I own. Seiko needs to step up there game with their lower end models.
Thanks Bruce. It's ok to love a Seiko. It's kinda like dating a stripper. It's fun at first but sooner or later we realize it might not work out for the best.
I have burned myself out from watches and Seiko no longer holds my interest. And just bought myself a new camera today after my 2014 Olympus EM1 died the other day and have decided it's time for a little less watch photography and go back to kind of photography that interests me and get out there on the streets. So except for a few channels like yours and subscribing back to more photography channels I am done buying watches for several years.
That’s awesome man getting back to things you love is a great idea. I mentioned a similar suggestion in my recent “how many watches do you need” video. I hope you enjoy the new camera! I need to replace my Canon t5i but can’t decide if I should go mirrorless and if I should stick with Canon?
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews if you have a decent investment in good quality lenses and you have enjoyed using the system stay with it.
I really love my SARB033, but I must admit that my frustration with its lack of accuracy is growing as I expand my collection and acquire more high end pieces. I still think the design is great and it even feels pretty premium, but it's losing 5-10 seconds a day, which is the second worst accuracy of all watches in the collection. The only one doing even worse is my SKX007!
If I compare the SARB033 to my Steinhart OVM and Tissot Visodate, the two watches I own in approximately the same price category, those two are much more accurate!
The bracelet doesn't bother me since I like it better on a leather strap anyway...
You need to set time after 9 AM and before 9 pm, then hand wind to full before your wear. The watch will perform with chronometer specs. ✌️
I will second this video's main point. I too have had terrible luck with Seiko quality control problems. I too have had problems with the terrible 6R15 movement. I have a 6R15C movement in my BEAUTIFUL SARG009 watch and the dam thing is completely unpredictable at times. Put it on the watch-grapher in the upright position and I've seen it swing from insane values such as +100s/d to -70s/d all within the course of 10minutes or so. Each day that watch could be off by more than a minute a day. Something in the movement was not working properly. Also the beat amplitude would get ridiculously low ~140º. Sadly, I'm not the only one who has had a 6R15 crap out. I've heard the same reports from others online. Something with the movement is wonky.
I too agree that it's a big shame, because I absolutely love some of the seiko watches. This SARB033 looks beautiful for it's price! I have a gorgeous SARX033 and a classy SARG099. Unfortunately my brand new SARX033 had the applied seiko logo bent in half (featured in my videos). How that ever made it past the assembler and QC was beyond me. I noticed it within 10 seconds of getting the watch unboxed.
I really want to like their watches, but I don't foresee myself buying another one with these quality control problems and I sure as heck won't buy a 6r15 movement. Grand seiko I'm not sure about.
Sounds about right!!! The 6R15 movement is what sent me running away from Seiko!
Just went with a quartz Tuna over a Sumo because I’ve had such terrible luck with the 6R movement. Within a year, my Alpinist was losing over a minute a day. My SARB035 runs about 15 seconds slow per day. The new Sumo has a 70 hour power reserve but what good is that if it’s losing a minute every 70 hours? I’d have to reset it anyway.
very informative video, i learned something new today (timegraph vs positions vs accuracy)
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing your view. I to love accurate watches, but for me it’s the quirky imperfections, flaws which endear such time pieces, for me, it’s the human element which you just can’t feel with a perfect time keeper. Thanks again.
I hope Bob is happy with the review of his watch ;)
And... accuracy of mechanical watches was important A FEW DECADES AGO because it wasnt easy to get access to atomically accurate time. But the last few decades, it became increasingly easy to get the reference (atomic) time. First we got teletext on the TV, then through PCs and mobile phones and now its everywhere.
Syncing a mechanical watch isnt that difficult any more. I dont care to sync it once a week or what. Because it is that easy to get access to exact time as a reference for syncing it...
what u said is true. about the movement.... that is also the only thing I dislike about my original cocktail time.
I have a king seiko also and besides having slightly smaller than I prefer, I absolutely love it. it seems to me that those vintage seiko movements are way way better than their current offerings.
100% agree. They keep lowering their quality and raising prices at the same time. One of the main reasons, in my opinion, is Seiko hype made by a majority of CZcamsrs.
Personal question, the American flag in the triangular box, does that have a special reason?
My grandfather was a WWII veteran, when he passed away this was the memorial flag from his funeral.
Shocking to see that deviation on the timer. I also agree about the poor qc issues. I think finding out about all this is all part of getting deeper into horology. Having said that I still love and always will love my skx. Seiko case design is as good as any. Thanks for the vid
Hi my SARX 033 is serious nice watch better than a SARB in fit and finish. I have had some issue with the 6r15. Initial accuracy was great at about +5 a day, then after 9 months settled at about -3 again fantastic. Then at 20 months now run about -12 a day. Now none of these times are that bad but the losses each day can vary from -10 to -20 sec. Other ETA type movements seem much more consistent. For example my Christopher Ward C60 run about +10 per day and still runs on about +10 sec 2 years later. Better grades seem to stay regular with even less loss or gain. Seems that the long term accuracy of the 6r15 lacks the stability of similar priced Swiss movements. I still like the Sarx but wonder what the long term accuracy is likely to end as.
Try to de-magnetize it first.
I got -3 sec a day on my SPB051 which has a 6R15. No complaints, I just set it a minute ahead and don't have to worry about it for a month or so.
You probably had a past video that made a mention (but I'm not sure), but are there any key differences (accuracy, quality etc) across the starting timegraphers on ebay, or perhaps do you recommend any particular models?
If they say No. 1000 on them, they are all the same. There is a No. 1900 version that I don't think is much better, it has a little better display screen.
I say save $ 5400 and get the Rolex Oyster Perpetual 36mm or 39mm...problem solved.
$5850
Or new seiko LX on paper looks fantastic
One of my all time favourite looking watches. Especially like the 39mm white dial. For many people (myself included) that’s a lot of saving for just a watch though, even if it’s a Rolex.
100% what happens to my sarb runs about +12 throughout the day and when I sleep it's runs about +40 averaging out at +20 per day the wild variation cheapens the watch to me
@Joe Cantini I checked the watch over 12 hour periods in each position face up, 3 down, 9 down etc it's was anything from +4seconds to +45seconds it was slightly out of spec for me on general wear
what brands would be your entry brands for new watch enthusiasts looking for affordable and high quality?
Orient.
I agree. Orient. Or if you like divers there are many great microbrands like Proxima/San Martin, Phoibos, or Tisell for example.
I totally agree with all the points. I experienced many quality issues with my Seikos (models issued in the past 3 years). I sold them all and I'm not going to buy from this brand any more.
Great video. One thing you didn't mention was the terrible amplitude reading that strongly suggest that movement requires servicing immediately. If you think Seiko has QC issues, then why are you considering GS? They're arguably worse than Seiko... Regards
I haven’t seen worse, or even any QC issues with GS, albeit with limited experience.
@@JustBlueFish Hey there, just browse around the forums and you'll find numerous examples. Just yesterday on UGWC a member posted a bezel that GS stated was within their tolerances that was barely staying on the watch. CZcamsr Uptick Watch Reviews just did multiple videos documenting his GS issues that were completely unacceptable. And finally, I was in the Cincinatti GS AD looking for the GS GMT Spring Drive and they had one. The problem is, you could tell from three feet away the bezel was significantly out of alignment. The gentleman informed me that they tried to sort it out with GS and they were also instructed that is was also within GS's QC standards. These are just three examples but all three are horrendous examples and there are many more if you dig around. Cheers
Great video. Enjoyed seeing the time graphed data which really put things into perspective. Don’t have any seikos in the collection anymore but getting a Grand Seiko soon. Wonder which one you’ll spring for.(no pun on spring drive intended)
Thanks buddy glad you liked the video. The SBGA285 is one GS I’ve been thinking about.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews definitely cant go wrong with that model! A nice step up from your lost sarb!
I own a Seiko Astron and I'm happy with it.
Very nice review, thank you! I have exactly the same observations as regards Seiko. Extremely inconsistent time keepers, and they have generally quite a lot of other quality control issues. I also owned a SARB033, but sold it because it was not keeping time well. At some point it became completely erratic - some days going 2 minutes slow per day (!), some days gaining 1 minute.. I bought a Tissot PR100 once I sold the Seiko, and I can confirm Tissot is much, much better when it comes to accuracy. It basically demonstrates COSC standards, even though it is not a chronometer. Never again Seiko, for me personally, unless it is a quartz. :)
I own 2 Seiko SKX, both are within -2/+2s per day EVERY DAY, which is amazing. I understand it might be more related to luck than anything else.
Can't complain about that.
I have a SARB033 and a 035, and get a deviation of no more than +/- 8-10 seconds per day with both of them. I am more than happy with that, particularly at the price point these watches occupy. Maybe I just got lucky, but if somebody wants +/- 2-3 seconds, I think you have to be willing to "pony up" a bit more cash. Granted, if I was losing 30-45 seconds a day, I wouldn't be too happy, but that just hasn't been my experience. My biggest problem with Seiko is their newer "everyday/dress" watches are all bigger than 38 mm. I much prefer watches in the 36-38 mm range; hard to get unless you can afford a Rolex or a Patek. :(
I couldn't agree more! This has been my experience with Seiko and has always driven me nuts until this video. Now I know I'm not crazy and this is a common observation. Thanks!
Yeah man, you’re not alone, but very few people on CZcams are talking about this. I don’t know why.
My 6R15A in the predecessor model before the SARB033 - the SVSC003 - runs well within COSC. The movement was serviced once by Seiko USA at year 10 and is now 14 years young. Crown down overnight, all day on the wrist and it gains about 40-50 seconds per month.
Once I purchased a solid quality Swiss timepiece I sold my Seiko’s, Citizen, and G Shock’s . There is a quality feel difference, comfort, movement, and accuracy along with reliability.
What Swiss watch was it?